and what choice does the child have in all this? None. This is tantamount to branding a baby with a "you are ours now, for life". chris is right to draw attention to this. its sick.
I always thought that it leads to less infection due to the cleanliness of the part afterwards, thats why even non-jews in america have it done to their babies in the hospital..?
People frown and shake their head in disapproval if someone pierces their babies ears yet it's still considered acceptable behaviour to slice flesh from a babies penis, permanently disfiguring it.
"it's ok because they're Jewish" or "everyone does it in America" is no excuse.
Thank goodness that Christopher Hitchens stood up against the Rabbi because especially in today's world,it's taboo to judge a Rabbi or anyone of the Jewish faith because of the power they have.
being snipped is an everyday affair for new born boys. i'm 40 and never sufferd a slightest inconvience. any sort on act like this on female genitalia is an abomination and should be punishable as a crime.
@AntiVenomFangX . well met good sir. i recognize your name here, i have read many of your articles. my point was common truth . and commom decency. men live and fall like the winter wheat. more inportant to spare women brutality , those who have no power. more lamentable , so much more than my long forgotten foreskin
The rabbi is a schmuck. I'm a woman, so I don't have any "flesh in the game," as it were, and I think that mutilating babies/children should be illegal. In fact, it amazes me that anyone denies that it's mutilation. If the rabbi really believes it's okay to subject babies/children to having a healthy, functioning body part surgically removed, he should be able to defend his position without denying the reality of what's being done. The fact that he objects to the word mutilation is very telling.
What Hitchens calls "morally sound people", probably refers to those zombies who march lock step, with a society that is mastered by a few ruling elite. Which uses them as slave power to maintain and build their pyrimid societies. They find out their is a higher authority, that is very benevolent, and start rebelling against the earthly totalitarian ones. Who have always made war on the knowledge of the higher benevolent power, with lies, misinformation and death of the Prophets!
i think hes referring to people who do not mutilate their children sxual organs as moral. but im sure you will never believe me. your going ot go on thinking your righteous, and people like him love slave power or ruling elites.
@CanadianMuffins Read my comment again as I did not even suggest I approved of babies being circumcised. IN FACT I stated "It should NEVER be forced upon ANYONE" DOH, HELLO, ANYBODY HOME?
@dirtydonki Yes, but you said "Circumcision is fine if done properly because of an individual's choice." And all I'm saying is that I don't think I've ever seen a baby choose to be circumcised. lol
lool these atheists and that are wimps, they first ban Dr Zakir Naik who has countlessly destroyed atheists in debates, why doesnt this man stand up to him?
Hitchens, Dennett, Harris and Dawkins pulled the straight razor of logic from one ear to the other on religion. It now comes to the internet to flail and flop as it bleeds out in death throes.Like a vampire in the sun it dissolves to dust under the brilliance of the beam of logic and reason. Religion attracts the failed, the fallen, the weak of my species. It is a fantastic dividing marker for who is human and who is just religious.Dont ignore this important division, its there for a reason.
how absurd! This English prick is making circumcision worse then what it is. I am not Jewish but I do have a son and I did have him circumcised and there was no problem. He did not cry and he didn't even seem to care nor did he get an infection from it or die. Religion or not making false accusations to drive you point home is still just that false. I have said my peace.
@2ravenf0x2 "Absurd"!? Eng' prick? I suggest you r the absurdity. U have turned your son into a sexual spastic, & u r 1 too, right? We don't know what you did that your son didn't scream, perhaps you had him anesthetized, that's not difficult & "shuts him up" alright. "He did not care"!? Did you ask him? Did he then say "sure! Go ahead, cut the best part of my sexual organ off, I'm only a baby now but I won't need it later either. I know what sex is going to be like, & it shouldn't be that good!
@trident3b Well congratulations not only have you showed me that you are uneducated but that you have a poor character which I'm sure your mother is not proud of in the least. lets bring the facts to the table my uneducated friend.Fact: that you cannot wash/pull back the foreskin until the boy is at least 2 years of age. Fact: It is a proven fact that uncircumcised boys/men are more likely to have redness, phimosis or other problems...not to mention a risk for cervical cancer for the woman. cont
Your response really is positively pathetic. You're making things up as you go along & use the classic facile low end myths of those who are in desperation to try to get out of their state of denial as they continue on their genital mutilation crusade. I think you know damn well that this cervical cancer risk myth is 100% unsubstantiated crap. ALL the data WORLDWIDE proves the absolute opposite.This is all pure American crap and lies resulting from Kellogg’s ultra sick doctrine and religion too.
Your response really is positively pathetic. You're making things up as you go along & use the classic facile low end myths of those who are in desperation to try to get out of their state of denial as they continue on their genital mutilation crusade. I think you know damn well that this cervical cancer risk myth is 100% unsubstantiated crap. ALL the data WORLDWIDE proves the absolute opposite.This is all pure American crap and lies resulting from Kellogg’s ultra sick doctrine and religion too.
Your response really is positively pathetic. You're making things up as you go along & use the classic facile low end myths of those who are in desperation to try to get out of their state of denial as they continue on their genital mutilation crusade. I think you know damn well that this cervical cancer risk myth is 100% unsubstantiated crap. ALL the data WORLDWIDE proves the absolute opposite. It is pure American crap and lies.
@2ravenf0x2 The USA as an industrial country has BY FAR THE HIGHEST HIV RATES & the HIGHEST circ’ rates. This is complete and utter babble and you know it. The foreskin should not be retracted until it comes back naturally. There is no medical or hygienic problem in this at all. One doesn't destroy the hymen in girls in order to flush out their vaginas etc.
@2ravenf0x2 The USA as an industrial country has BY FAR THE HIGHEST HIV RATES & the HIGHEST circ’ rates. This is complete and utter babble and you know it. The foreskin should not be retracted until it comes back naturally. There is no medical or hygienic problem in this at all. One doesn't destroy the hymen in girls in order to flush out their vaginas etc.
@2ravenf0x2 Your attempted counterarguments are grotesque, and trying to belittle me with your attempted insults demonstrates desperation and b the lack of arguments based on REAL facts. If you have been mutilated then you are not in a position to comment. You've lost it, and I belong to the group who have full healthy usage of it and the necessary protection. It is a masterpiece of natural functionality.
every person as an individual has the basic human right to maintain every body part they were born with, for life. If you believe the cervical cancer crap and similar hillbilly style arguments then I seriously question who is ill educated around here, and rest my case. With ease. Your arguments are utterly pathetic and totally unsubstantiated. 100%.
@trident3b oh wonderful it is good to know that doctors that I know and talk to are hilly billy ignoramuses who don't know what they are talking about cause what you think they didn't go to school and got their licenses off some website? I talked to many people who I guess where an oxymoron because they were well educated hicks before I had it done and found. That the yeses out weighed the nos by a lot probably didn't at all have a factor in my decision as a parent.
Doctors frequently make errors and errors of judgement. This is perfectly normal and procedures change over time as more experience is gained. If your doctors however REALLY did the honest research they will be forced to agree that they are wrong. And I bet you they know it is, but millions in the US are as gullible as you are, and they cash in on that. Cont.-
@trident3b I will disagree with you on this and leave it. To be honest from all the people I have talked to about this it comes to a draw over all. 50% good and 50% bad. One thing I have noticed with you is you are spouting out how any intelligent and well informed person would agree not to do the procedure however, you have yet to tell me reasons why and I do not mean urban slang terms as you so eloquently threw at me earlier. No, I mean hard facts!
@2ravenf0x2 To your stats: your 50/50 pro/con claim - if you say you have spoken to people - will be chiefly in the US, am I right? Well, the US accounts for 300 mil people out of 6 billion worldwide, and are nearly all in the US are indoctrinated hence it being done so much over there. BUT, it has dropped from 95% to apparently about 65%, so some seem to be learning, and it is officially NO LONGER recommended in the US, for good reasons. Cont.-
@2ravenf0x2 You request "hard facts": OK: The US medical authorities already state: "There is no evidence of it being medically advantageous" !!!! (the reasoning, typically American as in denial, being far too weak; it should not be conducted AT ALL). I have yet to tell you why? It stands to reason but I'll tell you: It belongs to your child & one day he will be an adult and you dead, and you will have left him with reduced sexual sensations and a degenerated eternally damaged penis. cont.-
@2ravenf0x2 You have taken the liberty of removing something that feels utterly heavenly BY DESIGN and is full of purpose and was RIGHTFULLY the property of your son whom you gave NO CHANCE to kepp it till adulthood. This too is dictatorial and arrogant to the highest extent thinkable, it is a vile thing to do. A beautiful utterly functional part of ANOTHER person, not you but HIM, is destroyed, irreparably. For life.
@2ravenf0x2 How do I know? I have it. If I lost it now I would die, my sexuality would be destroyed & I’d go mental at the perpetrator. It is very simple, would you like to have had your clitoral hood & a major part of the actual clitoris removed without your permission? I would say not. Those are the simple reasons. It is a barbaric & a hideous act and I am all for declaring it criminal, as is Female genital mutilation. Does this help you comprehend? I now only have another 300 million 2 tell.
@trident3bgeez okay for starter I apoligize for not reading the post that you are a parent. Second as I said I'm going to give in the white flag on this one or white towel whichever you like.I will say yes I talked to United states doctors considering that is where I live weird how that works. I will also say and maybe I missed where you threw out medical journals and facts to support your claim of the barbaric nature and that it doesn't help in any way and causes all these problems you speak of
@trident3b so again I am going to throw out just a few things before I quit this for good. Professor Brian J. Morris who is not from America who I read his findings on circumcision would not agree with you. And you are right asking my husband about it he would not know because he was a baby when it was done but as I have said it does not cause any problems in the bedroom and you are being over dramatic about it. So again have a wonderful afternoon, get a life, and move on.
@2ravenf0x2 the discussion with you is arduous and I must complain at some bad habits you have. Chiefly you always assert (false) assumptions. E.g. you tell me to get a life: I lead a great life, I’m multi lingual, masses of travel in various advanced cultures, and surrounded by rational people. You quote only ONE person (Morris). So what? Cont.-
@2ravenf0x2 There are billions who speak of personal experience and international data confirms that unnecessary mutilation OF OTHERS is deeply wrong. I didn't say “you have problems in the bedroom” but must you reduce others to your husband's condition? Why must you degrade the capabilities of someone else? Because if you cut SOMEONE ELSE up you do exactly that.
@2ravenf0x2 TIf your husband is happy with what he has it is because he only knows what he experiences, fine, but the fact remains that he was reduced to being incomplete and has to be content with what he has left. You won't notice the difference. You’re the woman AND PROTECTED FROM GENITAL MUTILATION!
@2ravenf0x2 For him there IS a difference, BUT he doesn't know because, in the classic cowardly American act, it is done when a totally defenceless baby. This is despicable and inhumane. AGAIN as you really do have comprehension problems, I have it, SO I KNOW WHAT I WOULD LOSE! Your sons did NOT ask to be mutilated and experience a reduction of a quality of life that they otherwise would enjoy. You have ruined that for them, for life.
And if your doctors are mutilated too they have also lost the objective capability of arguing against the dreadful act as they simply, by personal lack of sensation, cannot know any better. If you don’t have it you cannot know what it does and what it is like. Apart from that you can watch a YouTube video of an American doctor stating what he did for 30 years was clearly always wrong. Want the URL?? Cont.-
Frankly in this regard I prefer to listen to fully reasoned and explained comments from European doctors than those in the US who to the greatest extent see the money side of it (and if they are religious too the exacerbated horrendous stupidity coming from that too) AND the sheer gullibility of people like you!
Those docs of yours laugh at you knowing they can send you a bill for cutting off your kids genitals and charging more to attempt in the healing process cashing in another 400$ or whatever it is. You like millions of Americans have fallen for it and yours sons are paying a very high price indeed for that too. And your sons CANNOT be repaired. They are now sexual spastics.... for life.
@trident3b thats why you are angry cause your not American and some how I have offended you? You have it in your head that all American's are some what mindless, fat, couch potatoes who know nothing and will believe anything, something like that? That is very sad state of thinking if that is the case. I had foreign exchange students in my home that had that very same stereo type and I am happy to report not one left feeling the same way. I am sorry but get your head out of your a** sir.
@2ravenf0x2 Dearest, what can I say, if you look back you'll see that I mentioned that I am a parent though separated. I have one daughter (15). I wrote: "@2ravenf0x2 I have a daughter no sons, & if"...etc. Pls look back. I never started with the "educated" thing, you did! Again, pls look back. In the since the 80s I have been to the US perhaps some 30 times, I used to work for US financial outfits. I have my own personal experience I'm not interested in stereo typical comments, but much is true
Finally I think you are also giving the game away a bit with your God thing. If you believe in that, you’ll believe anything, just like the rest of the USA. I rest my case, big time.
im not answering that unimportant question, when the subject isnt mutilating your childs genitals and is in dfact the legitimacy of me being a parent i would be glad to answer.
@trident3b Now I will give you some personal facts which you do not deserve to hear but I will tell you anyways because I feel in the mood to. Fact: I am female and have no retardation issues in the bedroom when it comes to sex. Fact my husband who I have been married to for 6 years and known much longer who also was circumcised like my, has NO problems in that department either. Fact: my son had a good doctor and no he did not have a block done when the procedure was done.
@2ravenf0x2 Heck, you have just dug your hole 20 feet deeper! You have the unmitigated audacity to actually take the liberty of commenting on something about a person of the OTHER SEX of which you by sheer physiology cannot know anything about! This is a classic! You're making a spectacular fool of yourself, can you not see that? Your hsuband can't know what he has lost so you can ask him questions until you're blue in the fact. He is mutilated and cannot comment on something he does not own.
@trident3b Um your kidding right? I bet you are too mutilated I mean. I will almost and I say almost guarantee it. It is not as much of mutalation as you and this English fellow are saying it is. But the funny part is you are one here not to read others views and allow them even if they are wrong have them. You are not here to make a good debate you are here to argue most likely out of boredom. Now I made the mistake of getting mad at some ill educated person and responded.
mutilating sexual organs is big time mutilation. this isnt getting your ears pierces. this is removing a piece of the sexual organ, one that protects a very very sensitive part of the body. your child will be in pain, but he wont remember about it by the time he can speak.
this isnt about understanding youre view on how mutilation is a good thing.
for you thats a victory. may allah bless you and i wish you a good life.
You actually believe in gods, you allow and instruct genital mutilation, you yap at me "fact fact fact" in the most dictatorial way & then you decide the case is over (because in my opinion you do not have a case), & you call me ill educated.. actually I am busy working on 4 large projects in several different countries of which I also speak the languages 100% fluently) so I am not bored. I hammer out these responses in seconds (proving that men can also multitask as much as women, if not more).
@trident3b yes I actually believe in a creator though that doesn't have much to do with the decision I made. I am so glad you are a busy person which also tells me you are not a parent most likely because you do not have time or do not want to be. Honestly, for such a well educated person as you keep boosting to be you should know what an opinion is and when enough is enough. But, I forget book smarts and common sense are not the same thing.
@trident3b I will wish you well and not continue on about this. I have my opinion and you, yours and they will not be the same and that is fine with me. I am not a hick or a hill billy and I don't have to prove that to someone who neither is a parent and who is a hypocrite because he is the same as all those babies who have been circumcised. May God Bless you as will I and wish you a good life.
By barking "Fact" at me each time you are uttering a dictatorial pretext, basically you're not capable of arguing your case, you dictate what you WISH TO BE “facts”. Anyone seeing this will clearly see who is making the pragmatic arguments that have substance and who is trying to simply dumb the other down with dictatorial rhetoric. You haven’t got a clue! This is hyper pathetic. How DARE you state that I do not have children and actually dare to declare that a "fact"? You’re stark raving mad!
@trident3b fact: as I said he didn't seem to care nor did he get an infection from it (which it seems you lack one really big skill actually reading things through) He did not cry, whimper, or act odd in anyway after it was done or while it healed. Fact you are not a parent so don't act all knowledgeable when it makes you look like a fool. (if I am wrong and you are a parent then I pity your children) have a nice day and God Bless you.
so you mutilate sexual organs as long a there is no immediate negative effects? his dick will be chafing, and its really painful. he cant tell you "owe my dick hurts". but he will cry. and you being the ignoramus you are will hold him in your arms and say "there there, hats the matter?"
because you are as close to a caveman as we have these days.
@2ravenf0x2 I have a daughter no sons, & if I did they would have EVERYTHING they were born with! I wouldn't dare chop off their ears & eyelids as because I might think that might prevent the common cold or something as idiotic as that! They would maintain over 1000s of dedicated sexual nerve endings to which they are entitled, as they are entitled to keep EVERY body part they were born with, and would enjoy sex to the absolute fullest! There are more deaths and botch ups than foreskin problems.
What a moron... I'm proud to say I saw this whole thing live, and while at the time I thought I was some kind of religious person (I never really was, I was just told I was), I couldn't help but wildly applaud when Hitchens so eloquently crushed the Rabbi on this subject.
i can say most babies at a Brit milah (bris) will sleep through the entire ceremony. whats more... i had a bris ( am now an athiest) and could not be happier. i don't need sex any better than i have it : ) and there are health problems which correlate to uncircumcised penises.
you dont seem to understandf. being an atheist doesnt matter to people like us. we dont care if you are one of us or not. htis is about logic and common sense.
so according to you if the baby sleeps through his dick being mutilated its ok?
We never said better sex is a necessity.
what are the health problems you speak of? because it goes both ways. chopping a babies dick up can cause serious health problems and deformities.
@AntiVenomFangX your not understanding :) i am an atheist, but i am NOT "one of you". i am an atheist, and i said so. it was a moot point... and i don't know why i humor your comments... i think it would constitute "child abuse" in this country to presume a child should choose to/not to remove his foreskin LATER in life ( much more painful, just as socially necessary)
i definitely misunderstood you. either way in a first world country where bathing is available circumcision is stupid. i would like to know if you agree or disagree and you may elaborate.
@AntiVenomFangX i strongly disagree. in the same way bathing is a circumstance which might favor your argument, the larger issue is social normality. this isn't reducible to fashion or petty cosmetics. for many men an uncircumcised penis is the bane of their sexuality, and THAT is a very real problem ( a problem which cannot be resolved without surgery later in life). to presume that your child would rather choose between surgery and a life without a circumcised penis IS wrong.
@AntiVenomFangX 2.)i spoke too soon, after reading the health risks i don't think their are any legitimate health considerations ( although regarding sexual health, i've listed several crucial points)
1.) yes, of course. it's not contingent on the ambivalence of the child involved. that's just icing.
i said can, not will. we can only tell that jesus had mental problems, just like all of these people who miraculously "heal" the sick through faith, and have a huge following.
These 2 morons are confusing 2 completely different things here:
- male circumsision (cutting off the foreskin) is a procedure underwent by a high percentage of U.S males (and a jewish and muslim traditional practice) , and certainly leaves no trauma.
- FGM (feminine genital mutilation) is a horrifying crime (cutting off external parts of a woman's sexual organs) - which is mainly found in Africa and is NO jewish practice. Euphemistically, it is reffered to as "femal circumcision".
can't believe I seem to be the first person to point this out here!?? They have a terrible unsolved missunderstanding here! Hitchens msut think of the Rabbi as an unhumane monster, exposing his children to life - long suffering.
Hitchens thinks that the Rabbi is an inhumane monster, as do I (at least with regard to this particular subject) - that's the whole point. It's a normal, basic human reaction to be horrified at the sight of an adult using a knife on a child. The fact that religion has managed to completely suppress that reaction in the Rabbi, and even replace it with an urge to laugh, is exactly why Hitchens believes that the Rabbi has been 'poisoned' by religion.
@lorenzarthur91 It looks like you only got half the point. Female genital mutilation is disgusting to those who DO NOT practice it. Male circumcision is disgusting to those who DO NOT practice it.
Both practices involve holding down a child and cutting off a part of their body for no reason.
Let me guess. You're okay with circumcision because your people practice it, right?
no, we don't pratice it, but that's not the point. Male circumcision has been done for a variety of reasons, most of which are medical. especially in the desert, where judaism and islam were born, there is not a large amount of water available, so bacteria and sexual transmittable diseases can easily spread (the UN now recomends circumsision as prevention against AIDS in some countries. none of that can be said about FGM, which is an act of violence against women. [cont]
about 60 per cent of US males are cirumcised, and just a little percentage of those does it for religious reasons. my point was only, that hitchens must not confuse these two things, and that i was stunned that he talked publicly about these issues having no clue of them. of course we have to reject FGM, which is one of the most horrible things one can endure; but male circumcision can be discused quite calmly.
@lorenzarthur91 I see no medical reason for circumcision. It's always been done for religion and tradition. You're the perfect example of what Hitchens' was talking about. You've seen that it has been done for so long, that you no longer see it as mutilation. But let's call it what it is: you're holding down a boy to cut off a part of his body for no good reason.
As for the circumcision preventing AIDS, please do some research into how that came about. There is evidence of foul play.
Early in the 20th cent some people wanted to ban circ, so people who practiced it decided to come up with post hoc medical justifications for it. Hygiene, preventing masturbation, cancer, UTIs, lower sexual pleasure were all cited as benefits, new excuses appearing whenever the previous one was debunked. We now have a lot of evidence that circ doesn't stop AIDS in 1st world countries, and of course suddenly there's some poorly done studies in Africa showing a connection.
My point is that if it weren't for some people's strong religious motives circumcision would have disappeared along with the other stuff from medicine's "snake oil" era: burning off womens' clitorises with acid, coffee enemas, icepick lobotomies, etc.
And the fact that the Nordic countries (that never fell for the psudo-medical excuses) have tried to ban circumcision, but keep being held up by cries of antisemitism, kind of proves Hitchen's point.
What you have to keep in mind is if god created man and god being perfect in his creations then the question stands, why did he give boys foreskin only for it to be cut away, is this saying that his desighn is flawed????
This is one point I have to disagree with Hitchens on. I know of two twin boys, whose father did not want them to be circumcised, so they weren't. By the time they were in their early teens, they had suffered so many infections, that the family finally realized it was best that they be circumcised. At that point, it was embarrassing and painful for them. It would have been much better if they had just been circumcised at birth.
Hitchens makes an excellent point. Forcing genital mutilation on children is just the beginning. People will do absolutely anything if they think they have god on their side; like killing their children with faith healing by depriving them of professional medical attention, flying airplanes into buildings, depriving gay people of equal rights, and compromising science eduation in the US, and promoting ignorance and delusion. Religion is the enemy of humankind.
So what about piercing your daughter's ears? Is that within the category of takign away your child's chance to decide for themselves if you do it while they are babies?
if you make them eat chocolate icecream instead of the flavor they want its taking away their chance to decide for themselves... i cant believe you asked that question..... i cant believe im responding to a question that answers itself
no one has the right to cut off another persons parts because of their beliefs.If that person wants to be mutilated please let them do it when they are old enough to realise what is fully involved.
ALL genital mutilation is a sick and ugly practice so please leave our precious children alone.
Only sick bastards wish this upon their own,and I mean SICK
hitchens have no idea of what he say he is an idiot, atheist are much worse, look at the communist as an example, the rabbi is correct, it doesnt even hurt, i know i,ve gone through it, so stop saying like u know all thing, u think u are smart, but u are plain dumb hitchens
@wickedgame26 It doesn't hurt? Are you a mentalist? I have caught mine in the zipper of my jeans, not only did it hurt like hell it brought tears to my eyes. Its a sensitive part of your anatomy for feck sake.
Jewish males are 1% of the US population. According to the National Hospital Discharge Survey produced by the National Center for Health Statistics, in 2006, 56.1% of the baby boys born in the U.S. were circumcised. Lots of parents are "mutilating" their boys for NON-religious reasons.
The majority of U.S. males are circumcised. What's the big deal? it's just a damn foreskin!!!
As for the World Health Organizations claims, this is based on one study done in Africa. It would be interesting to know if the subjects of the study were practicing monogamy, using rubbers, and how many people were involved. That entire aside, AIDS is spread by body fluids, not skin, which in fact is a barrier to disease.
The American Medical Association and the American Association of Pediatrics both formally state that circumcision is medically unnecessary and the same health benefits can be achieved by good hygiene.
I did some deep research into this... very very disturbing. a) foreskin protects the glans, also has a band of pleasure inducing nerve fibers. Not only do you lose sensitivity, but now the head is exposed to rubbing on clothing/the elements which wears it down over time. b) It's a documented fact circumcision was a "treatment" for masturbation. c) the std prevention / cleanliness reason? Not a good enough reason, and you should be allowed to choose it as an adult, not have it forced on you.
@nestorrfortuna you must be in denial then and are the exception to billions of others. But,... nice try, but I don't believe you. If true you had more problems before, but do not represent the majority. It should also be no excuse to mutilate others, if that is what you are insinuating. You really don't believe chopping something off can stop viruses do you? Grow up.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
he aint no real academic because if you observe perspicaciously he keeps on interrupting the rabbi with sarcastic stunts which the audience truly realizes....... what a coward
Circumcision is not in any way an inoculation for anything. And there is absolutely no comparison between a hypodermic injection and amputating a significant amount of healthy tissue from someones genitals. The alleged prophylactic effects of circumcision are immediately offset by the negative lifelong consequences. There is simply no justifiable proportionality to performing it on an infant.
The only problem is that the mediator is not "mediating" anything. She sees that the rabbi is uncomfortable and tries to change the subjects, instead of letting Hitch destroy him with his flawless logic!
The rabbi after responding with a stupid innuendo, tries to change the subject matter of the discussion.
It amazes me that people actually believe in this religious B/S in this day and age. The fact that these people hold positions of standing and respect amongst us is even more astounding.
Time for sensible people around the world to make a stand against this nonsense. Unlike religion we could actually make a difference in a positive way.
Watch Penn and Tellers Bullshit- the episode on circumcision.... It shows a circucision being performed on a baby.... If his son cried like that duing a hair cut then his son has some severe mental problems....
Its sad that he has to lie about its true effects.
It's only called Mutilation since penicillin solved the infection problems. If & when antibiotics stop working (because of hormones fed to animals) and there is no magic bullet .... you'll be lobbying for circumcision ....
Isn't it like 85 percent of the men of the world are Not circumcised. It seems so pointless. Unnecessary injury to a child is abuse. I do think male and female circumcision is mutilation.
All religion is pure made up crap by people looking to take advantage of weak minded people. Its the biggest con that has been going on since anyone can remember. However just because its made up does not mean its all bad. Even tho I find religion to be idiotic even I can't deny that many churches today do some good to help others just as much as others do bad. It's all about personal choice if you want to be in a religion go ahead its your life and your right no matter how idiotic it is.
I've been reading the blogs. People can spin this issue anyway they want. In the end, having the front end of your penis sliced off is not normal. Lastly, ALL religion is pure fucking garbage.
It's rare in Israel, Islamic countries and the US. You keep referring to a cesspool of bacteria, in the modern world we have this thing called running water, I know people that had their penis mutilated find this hard to believe but the rest of the world practices this thing we like to call basic hygiene, maybe if your parents had practiced it your penis wouldn't have gotten infected ( I assume your parents had access to running water ).
That's what I'd keep telling myself if someone had needlessly taken off a part of my penis. You're still a goddamned retard but I understand that you don't feel like researching what was done to you.
I'll let you in on a little secret: Washing your penis also keeps infections at bay.
Here's another one: Male circumcision was originally introduced in the US to make both sexual intercourse and mastrubation less pleasurable.
A lot of you are missing the point. The point is that religion makes good people do evil things; things that they would not normally do - and Hitchens nails it.
As Hitchens has stated before, no normal person's first reaction to seeing their beautiful baby enter this world would be to start cutting at it's genitals.
It would also be counter-intuitive for us to presume that it is a good thing to stick a needle into a baby's arm, yet almost all babies have this done by their doctor.
I was circumcized and I'm not Jewish. It was done strictly for secular reasons. I believe that it is recommended by the medical community.
due to soap it is no longer medically required... so you compare it to shots?
i cant believe you would believe any old doctor. why put your trust in a small percentage of the medical community when the medical community as a whole recognizes the effects of SOAP! get a clue.
I definitely am selective. If I am going to cite a doctor, he better have certain credentials.
Dr. Edgar Schoen is a clinical professor at the U of Cali and has positions at multiple hospitals. He has been praticing medicine for almost 50 years and is considered by the medical community to be the leading authority on the subject of circumcision.
Can you name me a doctor who has half the credentials that he does, especially on the subject of circumcision?
No one was saying that it should be illegal to mutilate yourself by choice.
Also, hair is dead.
And ear piercings do not remove skin. Bad analogy.
Your urinary tract infection makes no sense. Why don't we just cut off the ears of all babies so that they don't get ear infections? Vaccines also do not cause permanent damage. And they prevent dangerous and prevalent diseases.
Your timing difference is also lacking.
Also, cite your sources. Specific book or study. And page number.
Removing foreskins does cause greater damage. It removes many inches of skin with many nerve endings etc.
Are you really so stupid that you think that hair is alive? The hair that we have outside of our scalp is dead. I believe that you are really that stupid. Or it was a really bad attempt to strawman me. Either way you lose.
I was wrong about ear piercings. I am against non consensual ear piercings as well now. But they are still not as damaging as male genital mutilation.
Please explain how removing skin with nerve endings is "damaging". I was circumcised and I really do not see how that has damaged me in the long run. Please explain.
You did not answer my question. How is foreskin anymore alive than hair?
You were wrong about many things, not just ear piercings. You are simply a sheep that will believe whatever Christopher Hitchens tells you. Newsflash: Hitchens is not in the medical community and has no clue what he is talking about.
But anyway, I do not want to draw this out any longer.
Can you at least concede that there are certain members of the medical community who recommend circumcision and that the assertion that people would not do it if it wasn't for religion is just flat out wrong?
@AntiVenomFangX I know this is old but I thought I'd step in here. Circumcision can decrease the occurrence of sexually transmitted disease but this is only if the uncircumcised person does not clean their foreskin or happen to have a cut in their foreskin. That being said, even if it is good for aids and other diseases, let the act be decided by the adult. It's evil to not give the individual a chance to decide whether or not they want their foreskin. I agree with u more than the dancinbear.
That Rabbi is a weasel.
themardybum08 1 month ago
That Rabbi is a weasel.
themardybum08 1 month ago
and what choice does the child have in all this? None. This is tantamount to branding a baby with a "you are ours now, for life". chris is right to draw attention to this. its sick.
elgar104 2 months ago 3
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I always thought that it leads to less infection due to the cleanliness of the part afterwards, thats why even non-jews in america have it done to their babies in the hospital..?
kangaroo303 4 months ago
*rabbi sticks fingers in ears*
*rabbi begins to open mouth*
Lalalalalalalalalalalalalala
Judicial78 6 months ago 2
People frown and shake their head in disapproval if someone pierces their babies ears yet it's still considered acceptable behaviour to slice flesh from a babies penis, permanently disfiguring it.
"it's ok because they're Jewish" or "everyone does it in America" is no excuse.
fongfongy 6 months ago 2
Thank goodness that Christopher Hitchens stood up against the Rabbi because especially in today's world,it's taboo to judge a Rabbi or anyone of the Jewish faith because of the power they have.
98bigbutt 6 months ago
being snipped is an everyday affair for new born boys. i'm 40 and never sufferd a slightest inconvience. any sort on act like this on female genitalia is an abomination and should be punishable as a crime.
davyjones21122 6 months ago
@davyjones21122
if i chopped off the tip of your finger as a newborn you wouldnt be bothered at 40 either.
AntiVenomFangX 6 months ago 5
@AntiVenomFangX . well met good sir. i recognize your name here, i have read many of your articles. my point was common truth . and commom decency. men live and fall like the winter wheat. more inportant to spare women brutality , those who have no power. more lamentable , so much more than my long forgotten foreskin
davyjones21122 6 months ago
The rabbi is a schmuck. I'm a woman, so I don't have any "flesh in the game," as it were, and I think that mutilating babies/children should be illegal. In fact, it amazes me that anyone denies that it's mutilation. If the rabbi really believes it's okay to subject babies/children to having a healthy, functioning body part surgically removed, he should be able to defend his position without denying the reality of what's being done. The fact that he objects to the word mutilation is very telling.
YY4Me133 6 months ago
What Hitchens calls "morally sound people", probably refers to those zombies who march lock step, with a society that is mastered by a few ruling elite. Which uses them as slave power to maintain and build their pyrimid societies. They find out their is a higher authority, that is very benevolent, and start rebelling against the earthly totalitarian ones. Who have always made war on the knowledge of the higher benevolent power, with lies, misinformation and death of the Prophets!
Howie47 7 months ago
@Howie47
i think hes referring to people who do not mutilate their children sxual organs as moral. but im sure you will never believe me. your going ot go on thinking your righteous, and people like him love slave power or ruling elites.
hahahahha
AntiVenomFangX 7 months ago
@Howie47 He didn't get that you were joking...lol
trueleroix 3 months ago
hahaha...such a slam dunk on the Rabbi. These are old practices that needs to be abolished. And if possible, get rid of this bastard called God.
russianblueOrDeath 7 months ago
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850Nexus 9 months ago
fuck yeah am not circumcision my boys (if i have any)
crackthecorn 9 months ago
Circumcision is fine if done properly because of an individuals choice.
It should NEVER be forced upon ANYONE.
dirtydonki 9 months ago 10
@dirtydonki "Circumcision is fine if done properly" Obviously you were circumcised.
9999necron 2 months ago
@dirtydonki I don't know about you, but I've never seen a baby say that they wanted their penis circumcised.
CanadianMuffins 1 month ago
@CanadianMuffins Read my comment again as I did not even suggest I approved of babies being circumcised. IN FACT I stated "It should NEVER be forced upon ANYONE" DOH, HELLO, ANYBODY HOME?
dirtydonki 1 month ago
@dirtydonki Yes, but you said "Circumcision is fine if done properly because of an individual's choice." And all I'm saying is that I don't think I've ever seen a baby choose to be circumcised. lol
CanadianMuffins 1 month ago
lool these atheists and that are wimps, they first ban Dr Zakir Naik who has countlessly destroyed atheists in debates, why doesnt this man stand up to him?
MojowidanAK 11 months ago
Someone please tell me where I can watch this whole thing!
romperstompist 11 months ago
that atheist is so rude. he doesn't deserve to be an atheist. he's such an ignorant.respect bro
KaKaGaNu 11 months ago
@KaKaGaNu and yet everything that he says he says is true.
unlikelyatheist 8 months ago
Hitchens, Dennett, Harris and Dawkins pulled the straight razor of logic from one ear to the other on religion. It now comes to the internet to flail and flop as it bleeds out in death throes.Like a vampire in the sun it dissolves to dust under the brilliance of the beam of logic and reason. Religion attracts the failed, the fallen, the weak of my species. It is a fantastic dividing marker for who is human and who is just religious.Dont ignore this important division, its there for a reason.
699backstab 1 year ago
The Rabbi is a professional liar.
VerumAdNauseam 1 year ago
how absurd! This English prick is making circumcision worse then what it is. I am not Jewish but I do have a son and I did have him circumcised and there was no problem. He did not cry and he didn't even seem to care nor did he get an infection from it or die. Religion or not making false accusations to drive you point home is still just that false. I have said my peace.
2ravenf0x2 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2 "Absurd"!? Eng' prick? I suggest you r the absurdity. U have turned your son into a sexual spastic, & u r 1 too, right? We don't know what you did that your son didn't scream, perhaps you had him anesthetized, that's not difficult & "shuts him up" alright. "He did not care"!? Did you ask him? Did he then say "sure! Go ahead, cut the best part of my sexual organ off, I'm only a baby now but I won't need it later either. I know what sex is going to be like, & it shouldn't be that good!
trident3b 1 year ago
@trident3b Well congratulations not only have you showed me that you are uneducated but that you have a poor character which I'm sure your mother is not proud of in the least. lets bring the facts to the table my uneducated friend.Fact: that you cannot wash/pull back the foreskin until the boy is at least 2 years of age. Fact: It is a proven fact that uncircumcised boys/men are more likely to have redness, phimosis or other problems...not to mention a risk for cervical cancer for the woman. cont
2ravenf0x2 1 year ago
Your response really is positively pathetic. You're making things up as you go along & use the classic facile low end myths of those who are in desperation to try to get out of their state of denial as they continue on their genital mutilation crusade. I think you know damn well that this cervical cancer risk myth is 100% unsubstantiated crap. ALL the data WORLDWIDE proves the absolute opposite.This is all pure American crap and lies resulting from Kellogg’s ultra sick doctrine and religion too.
trident3b 1 year ago
Your response really is positively pathetic. You're making things up as you go along & use the classic facile low end myths of those who are in desperation to try to get out of their state of denial as they continue on their genital mutilation crusade. I think you know damn well that this cervical cancer risk myth is 100% unsubstantiated crap. ALL the data WORLDWIDE proves the absolute opposite.This is all pure American crap and lies resulting from Kellogg’s ultra sick doctrine and religion too.
trident3b 1 year ago
Your response really is positively pathetic. You're making things up as you go along & use the classic facile low end myths of those who are in desperation to try to get out of their state of denial as they continue on their genital mutilation crusade. I think you know damn well that this cervical cancer risk myth is 100% unsubstantiated crap. ALL the data WORLDWIDE proves the absolute opposite. It is pure American crap and lies.
trident3b 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2 The USA as an industrial country has BY FAR THE HIGHEST HIV RATES & the HIGHEST circ’ rates. This is complete and utter babble and you know it. The foreskin should not be retracted until it comes back naturally. There is no medical or hygienic problem in this at all. One doesn't destroy the hymen in girls in order to flush out their vaginas etc.
trident3b 1 year ago
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@2ravenf0x2 The USA as an industrial country has BY FAR THE HIGHEST HIV RATES & the HIGHEST circ’ rates. This is complete and utter babble and you know it. The foreskin should not be retracted until it comes back naturally. There is no medical or hygienic problem in this at all. One doesn't destroy the hymen in girls in order to flush out their vaginas etc.
trident3b 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2 Your attempted counterarguments are grotesque, and trying to belittle me with your attempted insults demonstrates desperation and b the lack of arguments based on REAL facts. If you have been mutilated then you are not in a position to comment. You've lost it, and I belong to the group who have full healthy usage of it and the necessary protection. It is a masterpiece of natural functionality.
trident3b 1 year ago
every person as an individual has the basic human right to maintain every body part they were born with, for life. If you believe the cervical cancer crap and similar hillbilly style arguments then I seriously question who is ill educated around here, and rest my case. With ease. Your arguments are utterly pathetic and totally unsubstantiated. 100%.
trident3b 1 year ago
@trident3b oh wonderful it is good to know that doctors that I know and talk to are hilly billy ignoramuses who don't know what they are talking about cause what you think they didn't go to school and got their licenses off some website? I talked to many people who I guess where an oxymoron because they were well educated hicks before I had it done and found. That the yeses out weighed the nos by a lot probably didn't at all have a factor in my decision as a parent.
2ravenf0x2 1 year ago
Doctors frequently make errors and errors of judgement. This is perfectly normal and procedures change over time as more experience is gained. If your doctors however REALLY did the honest research they will be forced to agree that they are wrong. And I bet you they know it is, but millions in the US are as gullible as you are, and they cash in on that. Cont.-
trident3b 1 year ago
@trident3b I will disagree with you on this and leave it. To be honest from all the people I have talked to about this it comes to a draw over all. 50% good and 50% bad. One thing I have noticed with you is you are spouting out how any intelligent and well informed person would agree not to do the procedure however, you have yet to tell me reasons why and I do not mean urban slang terms as you so eloquently threw at me earlier. No, I mean hard facts!
2ravenf0x2 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2 To your stats: your 50/50 pro/con claim - if you say you have spoken to people - will be chiefly in the US, am I right? Well, the US accounts for 300 mil people out of 6 billion worldwide, and are nearly all in the US are indoctrinated hence it being done so much over there. BUT, it has dropped from 95% to apparently about 65%, so some seem to be learning, and it is officially NO LONGER recommended in the US, for good reasons. Cont.-
trident3b 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2 You request "hard facts": OK: The US medical authorities already state: "There is no evidence of it being medically advantageous" !!!! (the reasoning, typically American as in denial, being far too weak; it should not be conducted AT ALL). I have yet to tell you why? It stands to reason but I'll tell you: It belongs to your child & one day he will be an adult and you dead, and you will have left him with reduced sexual sensations and a degenerated eternally damaged penis. cont.-
trident3b 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2 You have taken the liberty of removing something that feels utterly heavenly BY DESIGN and is full of purpose and was RIGHTFULLY the property of your son whom you gave NO CHANCE to kepp it till adulthood. This too is dictatorial and arrogant to the highest extent thinkable, it is a vile thing to do. A beautiful utterly functional part of ANOTHER person, not you but HIM, is destroyed, irreparably. For life.
trident3b 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2 How do I know? I have it. If I lost it now I would die, my sexuality would be destroyed & I’d go mental at the perpetrator. It is very simple, would you like to have had your clitoral hood & a major part of the actual clitoris removed without your permission? I would say not. Those are the simple reasons. It is a barbaric & a hideous act and I am all for declaring it criminal, as is Female genital mutilation. Does this help you comprehend? I now only have another 300 million 2 tell.
trident3b 1 year ago
@trident3bgeez okay for starter I apoligize for not reading the post that you are a parent. Second as I said I'm going to give in the white flag on this one or white towel whichever you like.I will say yes I talked to United states doctors considering that is where I live weird how that works. I will also say and maybe I missed where you threw out medical journals and facts to support your claim of the barbaric nature and that it doesn't help in any way and causes all these problems you speak of
2ravenf0x2 1 year ago
@trident3b so again I am going to throw out just a few things before I quit this for good. Professor Brian J. Morris who is not from America who I read his findings on circumcision would not agree with you. And you are right asking my husband about it he would not know because he was a baby when it was done but as I have said it does not cause any problems in the bedroom and you are being over dramatic about it. So again have a wonderful afternoon, get a life, and move on.
2ravenf0x2 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2 the discussion with you is arduous and I must complain at some bad habits you have. Chiefly you always assert (false) assumptions. E.g. you tell me to get a life: I lead a great life, I’m multi lingual, masses of travel in various advanced cultures, and surrounded by rational people. You quote only ONE person (Morris). So what? Cont.-
trident3b 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2 There are billions who speak of personal experience and international data confirms that unnecessary mutilation OF OTHERS is deeply wrong. I didn't say “you have problems in the bedroom” but must you reduce others to your husband's condition? Why must you degrade the capabilities of someone else? Because if you cut SOMEONE ELSE up you do exactly that.
trident3b 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2 TIf your husband is happy with what he has it is because he only knows what he experiences, fine, but the fact remains that he was reduced to being incomplete and has to be content with what he has left. You won't notice the difference. You’re the woman AND PROTECTED FROM GENITAL MUTILATION!
trident3b 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2 For him there IS a difference, BUT he doesn't know because, in the classic cowardly American act, it is done when a totally defenceless baby. This is despicable and inhumane. AGAIN as you really do have comprehension problems, I have it, SO I KNOW WHAT I WOULD LOSE! Your sons did NOT ask to be mutilated and experience a reduction of a quality of life that they otherwise would enjoy. You have ruined that for them, for life.
trident3b 1 year ago
And if your doctors are mutilated too they have also lost the objective capability of arguing against the dreadful act as they simply, by personal lack of sensation, cannot know any better. If you don’t have it you cannot know what it does and what it is like. Apart from that you can watch a YouTube video of an American doctor stating what he did for 30 years was clearly always wrong. Want the URL?? Cont.-
trident3b 1 year ago
Frankly in this regard I prefer to listen to fully reasoned and explained comments from European doctors than those in the US who to the greatest extent see the money side of it (and if they are religious too the exacerbated horrendous stupidity coming from that too) AND the sheer gullibility of people like you!
trident3b 1 year ago
Those docs of yours laugh at you knowing they can send you a bill for cutting off your kids genitals and charging more to attempt in the healing process cashing in another 400$ or whatever it is. You like millions of Americans have fallen for it and yours sons are paying a very high price indeed for that too. And your sons CANNOT be repaired. They are now sexual spastics.... for life.
trident3b 1 year ago
@trident3b thats why you are angry cause your not American and some how I have offended you? You have it in your head that all American's are some what mindless, fat, couch potatoes who know nothing and will believe anything, something like that? That is very sad state of thinking if that is the case. I had foreign exchange students in my home that had that very same stereo type and I am happy to report not one left feeling the same way. I am sorry but get your head out of your a** sir.
2ravenf0x2 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2 Dearest, what can I say, if you look back you'll see that I mentioned that I am a parent though separated. I have one daughter (15). I wrote: "@2ravenf0x2 I have a daughter no sons, & if"...etc. Pls look back. I never started with the "educated" thing, you did! Again, pls look back. In the since the 80s I have been to the US perhaps some 30 times, I used to work for US financial outfits. I have my own personal experience I'm not interested in stereo typical comments, but much is true
trident3b 1 year ago
Finally I think you are also giving the game away a bit with your God thing. If you believe in that, you’ll believe anything, just like the rest of the USA. I rest my case, big time.
trident3b 1 year ago
@trident3b I will ask you and any one of the people trying to play smart and I do mean play. Are you a parent?
2ravenf0x2 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2
im not answering that unimportant question, when the subject isnt mutilating your childs genitals and is in dfact the legitimacy of me being a parent i would be glad to answer.
stay on topic.
AntiVenomFangX 1 year ago
@trident3b Now I will give you some personal facts which you do not deserve to hear but I will tell you anyways because I feel in the mood to. Fact: I am female and have no retardation issues in the bedroom when it comes to sex. Fact my husband who I have been married to for 6 years and known much longer who also was circumcised like my, has NO problems in that department either. Fact: my son had a good doctor and no he did not have a block done when the procedure was done.
2ravenf0x2 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2 Heck, you have just dug your hole 20 feet deeper! You have the unmitigated audacity to actually take the liberty of commenting on something about a person of the OTHER SEX of which you by sheer physiology cannot know anything about! This is a classic! You're making a spectacular fool of yourself, can you not see that? Your hsuband can't know what he has lost so you can ask him questions until you're blue in the fact. He is mutilated and cannot comment on something he does not own.
trident3b 1 year ago
@trident3b Um your kidding right? I bet you are too mutilated I mean. I will almost and I say almost guarantee it. It is not as much of mutalation as you and this English fellow are saying it is. But the funny part is you are one here not to read others views and allow them even if they are wrong have them. You are not here to make a good debate you are here to argue most likely out of boredom. Now I made the mistake of getting mad at some ill educated person and responded.
2ravenf0x2 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2
mutilating sexual organs is big time mutilation. this isnt getting your ears pierces. this is removing a piece of the sexual organ, one that protects a very very sensitive part of the body. your child will be in pain, but he wont remember about it by the time he can speak.
this isnt about understanding youre view on how mutilation is a good thing.
for you thats a victory. may allah bless you and i wish you a good life.
AntiVenomFangX 1 year ago
You actually believe in gods, you allow and instruct genital mutilation, you yap at me "fact fact fact" in the most dictatorial way & then you decide the case is over (because in my opinion you do not have a case), & you call me ill educated.. actually I am busy working on 4 large projects in several different countries of which I also speak the languages 100% fluently) so I am not bored. I hammer out these responses in seconds (proving that men can also multitask as much as women, if not more).
trident3b 1 year ago
@trident3b yes I actually believe in a creator though that doesn't have much to do with the decision I made. I am so glad you are a busy person which also tells me you are not a parent most likely because you do not have time or do not want to be. Honestly, for such a well educated person as you keep boosting to be you should know what an opinion is and when enough is enough. But, I forget book smarts and common sense are not the same thing.
2ravenf0x2 1 year ago
@trident3b I will wish you well and not continue on about this. I have my opinion and you, yours and they will not be the same and that is fine with me. I am not a hick or a hill billy and I don't have to prove that to someone who neither is a parent and who is a hypocrite because he is the same as all those babies who have been circumcised. May God Bless you as will I and wish you a good life.
2ravenf0x2 1 year ago
By barking "Fact" at me each time you are uttering a dictatorial pretext, basically you're not capable of arguing your case, you dictate what you WISH TO BE “facts”. Anyone seeing this will clearly see who is making the pragmatic arguments that have substance and who is trying to simply dumb the other down with dictatorial rhetoric. You haven’t got a clue! This is hyper pathetic. How DARE you state that I do not have children and actually dare to declare that a "fact"? You’re stark raving mad!
trident3b 1 year ago
@trident3b fact: as I said he didn't seem to care nor did he get an infection from it (which it seems you lack one really big skill actually reading things through) He did not cry, whimper, or act odd in anyway after it was done or while it healed. Fact you are not a parent so don't act all knowledgeable when it makes you look like a fool. (if I am wrong and you are a parent then I pity your children) have a nice day and God Bless you.
2ravenf0x2 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2
so you mutilate sexual organs as long a there is no immediate negative effects? his dick will be chafing, and its really painful. he cant tell you "owe my dick hurts". but he will cry. and you being the ignoramus you are will hold him in your arms and say "there there, hats the matter?"
because you are as close to a caveman as we have these days.
AntiVenomFangX 1 year ago
@AntiVenomFangX you I won't respond to!
2ravenf0x2 1 year ago
@2ravenf0x2 I have a daughter no sons, & if I did they would have EVERYTHING they were born with! I wouldn't dare chop off their ears & eyelids as because I might think that might prevent the common cold or something as idiotic as that! They would maintain over 1000s of dedicated sexual nerve endings to which they are entitled, as they are entitled to keep EVERY body part they were born with, and would enjoy sex to the absolute fullest! There are more deaths and botch ups than foreskin problems.
trident3b 1 year ago
Man, PWNED by the Hitch. What else would I expect?
gekritzl 1 year ago
All the Rabbi can do is stare....he knows he's been destroyed and called down himself. This is what we call a humbling moment people.
dallased25 1 year ago 3
its so obvious that you should not cut people's genitals.
i have spend years looking for anyone who could logically defend this practice.
mooglebee8 1 year ago
YOU DO NOT SHOOT PEOPLE IN THE DICK
NOT COOL
sugarfreelemonade 1 year ago
What a moron... I'm proud to say I saw this whole thing live, and while at the time I thought I was some kind of religious person (I never really was, I was just told I was), I couldn't help but wildly applaud when Hitchens so eloquently crushed the Rabbi on this subject.
silverignika2 1 year ago
i can say most babies at a Brit milah (bris) will sleep through the entire ceremony. whats more... i had a bris ( am now an athiest) and could not be happier. i don't need sex any better than i have it : ) and there are health problems which correlate to uncircumcised penises.
foolsbetrippin 1 year ago
@foolsbetrippin
you dont seem to understandf. being an atheist doesnt matter to people like us. we dont care if you are one of us or not. htis is about logic and common sense.
so according to you if the baby sleeps through his dick being mutilated its ok?
We never said better sex is a necessity.
what are the health problems you speak of? because it goes both ways. chopping a babies dick up can cause serious health problems and deformities.
AntiVenomFangX 1 year ago
@AntiVenomFangX your not understanding :) i am an atheist, but i am NOT "one of you". i am an atheist, and i said so. it was a moot point... and i don't know why i humor your comments... i think it would constitute "child abuse" in this country to presume a child should choose to/not to remove his foreskin LATER in life ( much more painful, just as socially necessary)
foolsbetrippin 1 year ago
@foolsbetrippin
i definitely misunderstood you. either way in a first world country where bathing is available circumcision is stupid. i would like to know if you agree or disagree and you may elaborate.
humor me.
AntiVenomFangX 1 year ago
@AntiVenomFangX i strongly disagree. in the same way bathing is a circumstance which might favor your argument, the larger issue is social normality. this isn't reducible to fashion or petty cosmetics. for many men an uncircumcised penis is the bane of their sexuality, and THAT is a very real problem ( a problem which cannot be resolved without surgery later in life). to presume that your child would rather choose between surgery and a life without a circumcised penis IS wrong.
foolsbetrippin 1 year ago
@foolsbetrippin
tellme what these problems are?(the context is the first world i presume because your trying to contradict what i said)
and why cant it be fixed at their own will later on in life so that it needs to be forced upon them?
AntiVenomFangX 1 year ago
@AntiVenomFangX because surgery is no small infliction either.
foolsbetrippin 1 year ago
@foolsbetrippin
im sorry sir but that does not address a single question i asked, if you feel it does, please show me which question you feel it answers.
1. so according to you if the baby sleeps through his dick being mutilated its ok?
2. what are the health problems you speak of? because it goes both ways. chopping a babies dick up can cause serious health problems and deformities.
AntiVenomFangX 1 year ago
@AntiVenomFangX 2.)i spoke too soon, after reading the health risks i don't think their are any legitimate health considerations ( although regarding sexual health, i've listed several crucial points)
1.) yes, of course. it's not contingent on the ambivalence of the child involved. that's just icing.
foolsbetrippin 1 year ago
@foolsbetrippin Have I been Iced?
AntiVenomFangX 1 year ago
@AntiVenomFangX its been fun, but i am not the proselytizing moralist type. so i am done... unless you have anything obscenely fascinating to say
foolsbetrippin 1 year ago
@foolsbetrippin
sir you aren't answering questions. i dont think i need to explain to you what this means. bye.
AntiVenomFangX 1 year ago
@AntiVenomFangX XP
foolsbetrippin 1 year ago
@AntiVenomFangX So Jesus had health problems and deformities since he too was Circumsized? i too was circumsized and i have no problems?
MojowidanAK 11 months ago
@MojowidanAK
i said can, not will. we can only tell that jesus had mental problems, just like all of these people who miraculously "heal" the sick through faith, and have a huge following.
AntiVenomFangX 11 months ago
@TheAdrenalineEffect yours is the best comment i have heard on the subject so far.
AntiVenomFangX 1 year ago
These 2 morons are confusing 2 completely different things here:
- male circumsision (cutting off the foreskin) is a procedure underwent by a high percentage of U.S males (and a jewish and muslim traditional practice) , and certainly leaves no trauma.
- FGM (feminine genital mutilation) is a horrifying crime (cutting off external parts of a woman's sexual organs) - which is mainly found in Africa and is NO jewish practice. Euphemistically, it is reffered to as "femal circumcision".
lorenzarthur91 1 year ago
@lorenzarthur91
can't believe I seem to be the first person to point this out here!?? They have a terrible unsolved missunderstanding here! Hitchens msut think of the Rabbi as an unhumane monster, exposing his children to life - long suffering.
lorenzarthur91 1 year ago
@lorenzarthur91
Hitchens thinks that the Rabbi is an inhumane monster, as do I (at least with regard to this particular subject) - that's the whole point. It's a normal, basic human reaction to be horrified at the sight of an adult using a knife on a child. The fact that religion has managed to completely suppress that reaction in the Rabbi, and even replace it with an urge to laugh, is exactly why Hitchens believes that the Rabbi has been 'poisoned' by religion.
wseerldnoeoedfry 1 year ago
@lorenzarthur91 It looks like you only got half the point. Female genital mutilation is disgusting to those who DO NOT practice it. Male circumcision is disgusting to those who DO NOT practice it.
Both practices involve holding down a child and cutting off a part of their body for no reason.
Let me guess. You're okay with circumcision because your people practice it, right?
sleazybtd 1 year ago
@sleazybtd
no, we don't pratice it, but that's not the point. Male circumcision has been done for a variety of reasons, most of which are medical. especially in the desert, where judaism and islam were born, there is not a large amount of water available, so bacteria and sexual transmittable diseases can easily spread (the UN now recomends circumsision as prevention against AIDS in some countries. none of that can be said about FGM, which is an act of violence against women. [cont]
lorenzarthur91 1 year ago
@sleazybtd
[part2]
about 60 per cent of US males are cirumcised, and just a little percentage of those does it for religious reasons. my point was only, that hitchens must not confuse these two things, and that i was stunned that he talked publicly about these issues having no clue of them. of course we have to reject FGM, which is one of the most horrible things one can endure; but male circumcision can be discused quite calmly.
lorenzarthur91 1 year ago
@lorenzarthur91 I see no medical reason for circumcision. It's always been done for religion and tradition. You're the perfect example of what Hitchens' was talking about. You've seen that it has been done for so long, that you no longer see it as mutilation. But let's call it what it is: you're holding down a boy to cut off a part of his body for no good reason.
As for the circumcision preventing AIDS, please do some research into how that came about. There is evidence of foul play.
sleazybtd 1 year ago
@lorenzarthur91
Early in the 20th cent some people wanted to ban circ, so people who practiced it decided to come up with post hoc medical justifications for it. Hygiene, preventing masturbation, cancer, UTIs, lower sexual pleasure were all cited as benefits, new excuses appearing whenever the previous one was debunked. We now have a lot of evidence that circ doesn't stop AIDS in 1st world countries, and of course suddenly there's some poorly done studies in Africa showing a connection.
wseerldnoeoedfry 1 year ago
@lorenzarthur91 - Part 2
My point is that if it weren't for some people's strong religious motives circumcision would have disappeared along with the other stuff from medicine's "snake oil" era: burning off womens' clitorises with acid, coffee enemas, icepick lobotomies, etc.
And the fact that the Nordic countries (that never fell for the psudo-medical excuses) have tried to ban circumcision, but keep being held up by cries of antisemitism, kind of proves Hitchen's point.
wseerldnoeoedfry 1 year ago
I don't understand why he holds onto it " not being very painful ", mutilation dosn't have to be painful does it? Or atleast not in my definition.
dan012345 1 year ago
it is NO JOKE, GET IT YOU FUCKING WANKERS, IT´S NO JOKE
yatter1 1 year ago
What you have to keep in mind is if god created man and god being perfect in his creations then the question stands, why did he give boys foreskin only for it to be cut away, is this saying that his desighn is flawed????
stonewall1888 1 year ago
This is one point I have to disagree with Hitchens on. I know of two twin boys, whose father did not want them to be circumcised, so they weren't. By the time they were in their early teens, they had suffered so many infections, that the family finally realized it was best that they be circumcised. At that point, it was embarrassing and painful for them. It would have been much better if they had just been circumcised at birth.
DandAinTac 1 year ago
Is the full video somewhere out there on youtube?
madridisinSpain 1 year ago
Hitchens makes an excellent point. Forcing genital mutilation on children is just the beginning. People will do absolutely anything if they think they have god on their side; like killing their children with faith healing by depriving them of professional medical attention, flying airplanes into buildings, depriving gay people of equal rights, and compromising science eduation in the US, and promoting ignorance and delusion. Religion is the enemy of humankind.
chansetwo 1 year ago
BTW, CIRCUMCISION was an ancient EGYPTIAN habit ( to RAA)
JEWS stole this habit and said that it was a HOLY thing!
and MUSLIMS did so when they stole it and said it is an ISLAMIC thing!
PRETENDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:(
Laikist 1 year ago
ask me about CIRCUMCISION!
it was soooooooo painful!
they told us(when we grew up) that IT IS GOOD FOR OUR HEALTH,WE WONT CATCH DISEASES!
so how come Christians in my country never catch any DEADLY DISEASE and they don't CIRCUMCISE????
I WILL SUE MY FAMILY :(
Laikist 1 year ago
So what about piercing your daughter's ears? Is that within the category of takign away your child's chance to decide for themselves if you do it while they are babies?
knyrone 1 year ago
@knyrone
if you make them eat chocolate icecream instead of the flavor they want its taking away their chance to decide for themselves... i cant believe you asked that question..... i cant believe im responding to a question that answers itself
AntiVenomFangX 1 year ago 4
@knyrone you are soooooooooooooooooooo stupid , you smug twat
yatter1 1 year ago
no one has the right to cut off another persons parts because of their beliefs.If that person wants to be mutilated please let them do it when they are old enough to realise what is fully involved.
ALL genital mutilation is a sick and ugly practice so please leave our precious children alone.
Only sick bastards wish this upon their own,and I mean SICK
naybobdenod 1 year ago 3
hitchens have no idea of what he say he is an idiot, atheist are much worse, look at the communist as an example, the rabbi is correct, it doesnt even hurt, i know i,ve gone through it, so stop saying like u know all thing, u think u are smart, but u are plain dumb hitchens
wickedgame26 1 year ago
@wickedgame26 It doesn't hurt? Are you a mentalist? I have caught mine in the zipper of my jeans, not only did it hurt like hell it brought tears to my eyes. Its a sensitive part of your anatomy for feck sake.
Haizum74 1 year ago
Let's look at some stats.
Jewish males are 1% of the US population. According to the National Hospital Discharge Survey produced by the National Center for Health Statistics, in 2006, 56.1% of the baby boys born in the U.S. were circumcised. Lots of parents are "mutilating" their boys for NON-religious reasons.
The majority of U.S. males are circumcised. What's the big deal? it's just a damn foreskin!!!
Hitch needs to lighten up.
And the rabbi should stop telling stupid jokes
handelflesch 1 year ago
Thank you Christopher Hitchens ! Religion is conduit for mental ILLNESS !!!!
TheArchJuggler 1 year ago 2
"David can I have my foreskin back from your king's god? Also, let the girl go." - ThePhilistines
Mephistophilus 1 year ago
This is a great great video. Thanks so much!
Professoranton 1 year ago 2
SOOOO TRUE! i pulled back the skin on my penis to see, and i touched it lightly with the tip of my finger WORSE PAIN EVER!!! AHH it made me cringe
69Thrasha69 1 year ago
Hitchens at his very best. Spellbinding.
SkinnerSG 1 year ago
As for the World Health Organizations claims, this is based on one study done in Africa. It would be interesting to know if the subjects of the study were practicing monogamy, using rubbers, and how many people were involved. That entire aside, AIDS is spread by body fluids, not skin, which in fact is a barrier to disease.
revadac1 1 year ago
The American Medical Association and the American Association of Pediatrics both formally state that circumcision is medically unnecessary and the same health benefits can be achieved by good hygiene.
revadac1 1 year ago
I did some deep research into this... very very disturbing. a) foreskin protects the glans, also has a band of pleasure inducing nerve fibers. Not only do you lose sensitivity, but now the head is exposed to rubbing on clothing/the elements which wears it down over time. b) It's a documented fact circumcision was a "treatment" for masturbation. c) the std prevention / cleanliness reason? Not a good enough reason, and you should be allowed to choose it as an adult, not have it forced on you.
RocknRollAllNiteLong 1 year ago 8
@RocknRollAllNiteLong nicely summarized.
trident3b 1 year ago
i ask for circunsition myself due to phymosis and lower risk of hpv on my sexual partners.
and i can say it improved my sexual pleasure and my partner.
either way. there is no divine instruction that i follow, fuck deities if they exist fuck their beards and fuck their divine asses
nestorrfortuna 1 year ago
@nestorrfortuna you must be in denial then and are the exception to billions of others. But,... nice try, but I don't believe you. If true you had more problems before, but do not represent the majority. It should also be no excuse to mutilate others, if that is what you are insinuating. You really don't believe chopping something off can stop viruses do you? Grow up.
trident3b 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
he aint no real academic because if you observe perspicaciously he keeps on interrupting the rabbi with sarcastic stunts which the audience truly realizes....... what a coward
saracen313 1 year ago
Since when does the definition of an academic include lack of sarcasm in one's manner of communication?
omegavalerius 1 year ago
Circumcision is not in any way an inoculation for anything. And there is absolutely no comparison between a hypodermic injection and amputating a significant amount of healthy tissue from someones genitals. The alleged prophylactic effects of circumcision are immediately offset by the negative lifelong consequences. There is simply no justifiable proportionality to performing it on an infant.
theDude3434 2 years ago 5
The only problem is that the mediator is not "mediating" anything. She sees that the rabbi is uncomfortable and tries to change the subjects, instead of letting Hitch destroy him with his flawless logic!
The rabbi after responding with a stupid innuendo, tries to change the subject matter of the discussion.
Hitchens is the best debater in a long time!!!
Genital mutilation is not a Joke!!!!!
perdeganha 2 years ago 28
WOW
It amazes me that people actually believe in this religious B/S in this day and age. The fact that these people hold positions of standing and respect amongst us is even more astounding.
Time for sensible people around the world to make a stand against this nonsense. Unlike religion we could actually make a difference in a positive way.
Fuck Religion
swingbeeper 2 years ago 8
the Rabbi... is deluded..
bpwaddell 2 years ago 22
This comment has received too many negative votes show
this Hitchens is emotionally trying to manipulate the crowd; since when did he never apply sarcasm himself regarding serious topics
saracen313 2 years ago
You miss the point as much as the rabbi did.
Don't run away.
Address it.
babaluboo123 2 years ago 7
u silly gobsite, what a sad interpitation lol fs
gezzer2 2 years ago
Watch Penn and Tellers Bullshit- the episode on circumcision.... It shows a circucision being performed on a baby.... If his son cried like that duing a hair cut then his son has some severe mental problems....
Its sad that he has to lie about its true effects.
tempemonkey2323 2 years ago 12
It's only called Mutilation since penicillin solved the infection problems. If & when antibiotics stop working (because of hormones fed to animals) and there is no magic bullet .... you'll be lobbying for circumcision ....
4449911 2 years ago
Isn't it like 85 percent of the men of the world are Not circumcised. It seems so pointless. Unnecessary injury to a child is abuse. I do think male and female circumcision is mutilation.
slutkissboi 2 years ago
All religion is pure made up crap by people looking to take advantage of weak minded people. Its the biggest con that has been going on since anyone can remember. However just because its made up does not mean its all bad. Even tho I find religion to be idiotic even I can't deny that many churches today do some good to help others just as much as others do bad. It's all about personal choice if you want to be in a religion go ahead its your life and your right no matter how idiotic it is.
Louis69 2 years ago
I see the same story here and just can't believe it :(
mikeblaze2e 2 years ago
I've been reading the blogs. People can spin this issue anyway they want. In the end, having the front end of your penis sliced off is not normal. Lastly, ALL religion is pure fucking garbage.
akanakedsnake 2 years ago 2
It's rare in Israel, Islamic countries and the US. You keep referring to a cesspool of bacteria, in the modern world we have this thing called running water, I know people that had their penis mutilated find this hard to believe but the rest of the world practices this thing we like to call basic hygiene, maybe if your parents had practiced it your penis wouldn't have gotten infected ( I assume your parents had access to running water ).
Again, have fun with your mutilated penis.
eyholmess 2 years ago
Well Arabic also do that not only Jewish ppl it's an old tradition for cleaness and suppresion. Simple control for the survival of a KIND
Well don't get me wrong Im giving Facts Take Care:)
mikeblaze2e 2 years ago
I can see you have an impenetrable shield of willful ignorance surounding the needless mutilation of your penis so lets agree to disagree.
eyholmess 2 years ago
That's what I'd keep telling myself if someone had needlessly taken off a part of my penis. You're still a goddamned retard but I understand that you don't feel like researching what was done to you.
I'll let you in on a little secret: Washing your penis also keeps infections at bay.
Here's another one: Male circumcision was originally introduced in the US to make both sexual intercourse and mastrubation less pleasurable.
Enjoy your mutilated penis.
eyholmess 2 years ago
You're a goddamn retard if you have nothing against the needless mutilation of one gender but find the practice to be barbaric in the other.
eyholmess 2 years ago
I'm a fan Dawkins, I am now also a fan of Hitchens.
JeanLouie1106 2 years ago
common stop this bs either sides
mikeblaze2e 2 years ago
A lot of you are missing the point. The point is that religion makes good people do evil things; things that they would not normally do - and Hitchens nails it.
As Hitchens has stated before, no normal person's first reaction to seeing their beautiful baby enter this world would be to start cutting at it's genitals.
ModConsoleAU 2 years ago 5
It would also be counter-intuitive for us to presume that it is a good thing to stick a needle into a baby's arm, yet almost all babies have this done by their doctor.
I was circumcized and I'm not Jewish. It was done strictly for secular reasons. I believe that it is recommended by the medical community.
dancinbear7476 2 years ago
It is evil to mutilate someone.
Jugglingbuffoon 2 years ago
On that note, we should also make it illegal for people to pierce their ears or get a haircut.
dancinbear7476 2 years ago
it should be the owner of the penis who makes the choice to mutilate himself. do you agree or disagree?
AntiVenomFangX 2 years ago
Disagree. That's like saying it should also be a child's choice to get certain shots.
Uncircumcised male infants are 10x more likely to develop urinary tract infections. The risk is much higher during the neonatal period.
Plus, infants heal more quickly and the complication rate is lower. Circumcisions are much more of a risk if you are older.
I'm not making this up. It has been confirmed by Dr. Edgar Schoen, a reputable professor of pediatrics at University of Cali.
dancinbear7476 2 years ago
due to soap it is no longer medically required... so you compare it to shots?
i cant believe you would believe any old doctor. why put your trust in a small percentage of the medical community when the medical community as a whole recognizes the effects of SOAP! get a clue.
AntiVenomFangX 2 years ago
Haha, so I should just take your word over the word of an actual physician?
Mind telling me what your credentials are in the field of medicine?
dancinbear7476 2 years ago
let me put it this way. im 100% positive your selective on which doctors to side on with this one.
hope you try out soap one day. it can stop infections of many sorts.
AntiVenomFangX 2 years ago 2
I definitely am selective. If I am going to cite a doctor, he better have certain credentials.
Dr. Edgar Schoen is a clinical professor at the U of Cali and has positions at multiple hospitals. He has been praticing medicine for almost 50 years and is considered by the medical community to be the leading authority on the subject of circumcision.
Can you name me a doctor who has half the credentials that he does, especially on the subject of circumcision?
dancinbear7476 2 years ago
"is considered by the medical community to be the leading authority on the subject of circumcision."
that is what you said.... back it up, because baseless claims don't win arguments they lose them.
AntiVenomFangX 2 years ago 2
No one was saying that it should be illegal to mutilate yourself by choice.
Also, hair is dead.
And ear piercings do not remove skin. Bad analogy.
Your urinary tract infection makes no sense. Why don't we just cut off the ears of all babies so that they don't get ear infections? Vaccines also do not cause permanent damage. And they prevent dangerous and prevalent diseases.
Your timing difference is also lacking.
Also, cite your sources. Specific book or study. And page number.
Jugglingbuffoon 2 years ago
What do you mean, "Hair is dead"? Are you saying that our foreskin somehow has a life of its own? What makes foreskin anymore "alive" than hair?
Ear piercings DO remove skin. Millions of tiny skin cells are killed in the process.
Circumcisions do not result in any permanent damage.
Cutting off ears to prevent ear infection would result in greater damage. Removing foreskin to prevent UTIs does not.
The article by Dr. Schoen is in the 12/07 issue of CFP, an official publication.
dancinbear7476 2 years ago
To be exact, it's in Canadian Family Physician, volume 53, December 2007.
Google search it. Youtube doesn't allow links.
dancinbear7476 2 years ago
Removing foreskins does cause greater damage. It removes many inches of skin with many nerve endings etc.
Are you really so stupid that you think that hair is alive? The hair that we have outside of our scalp is dead. I believe that you are really that stupid. Or it was a really bad attempt to strawman me. Either way you lose.
I was wrong about ear piercings. I am against non consensual ear piercings as well now. But they are still not as damaging as male genital mutilation.
PM me the link.
Jugglingbuffoon 2 years ago
Please explain how removing skin with nerve endings is "damaging". I was circumcised and I really do not see how that has damaged me in the long run. Please explain.
You did not answer my question. How is foreskin anymore alive than hair?
You were wrong about many things, not just ear piercings. You are simply a sheep that will believe whatever Christopher Hitchens tells you. Newsflash: Hitchens is not in the medical community and has no clue what he is talking about.
dancinbear7476 2 years ago
But anyway, I do not want to draw this out any longer.
Can you at least concede that there are certain members of the medical community who recommend circumcision and that the assertion that people would not do it if it wasn't for religion is just flat out wrong?
dancinbear7476 2 years ago
back up what you said or else you lose. just like i would lose if i werent to explain how soap is why circumcisions are no longer neccessary.
you can look smart or ignorant. its up to you.
AntiVenomFangX 2 years ago 2
I've cited a publication by an actual physician who is considered, by the medical authority, to be an authority on the subject of circumcision.
You've yet to give me one doctor who says what you say.
dancinbear7476 2 years ago
@AntiVenomFangX I know this is old but I thought I'd step in here. Circumcision can decrease the occurrence of sexually transmitted disease but this is only if the uncircumcised person does not clean their foreskin or happen to have a cut in their foreskin. That being said, even if it is good for aids and other diseases, let the act be decided by the adult. It's evil to not give the individual a chance to decide whether or not they want their foreskin. I agree with u more than the dancinbear.
JVIikel 1 year ago