You are a fucking retard. If I could be bothered I would counter every shitty argument you put forward but you seriously aren't worth the slightest effort.
Thank you for making a distinction between plot, premise, and theme. I can't remember any other movie or game reviews done in this style that took the time to clarify them.
Sory to say, your analysis is so bad. Try playing the game through total Paragon, and you will have another grater perspective... If you still aren't smarter, then go and play/ ridicule another game.
And for you who didn't understand him, in short, he said that he hadn't played it and hated it.
Defenders of this story took a weird turn - instead of saying it's actually good and Smudboy is just wrong now they say it's a "toy" so who the f*ck cares. Huh.
Those that are telling smudboy to [insert profanity here] should consider the fact that he isn't bashing on the story for the sake of it. He is criticizing BioWare's writing and is providing substantial facts to support it. I like his in-depth analysis and hope the writers like the ones in BioWare take vids like this into account....especially the writers of ME3.
Nice work. When I first started playing ME2 it was difficult to understand why it felt so disjointed. Your plot analysis really pinpoints the reasons. Bioware knows how to write a story but just doesn't know how to tell it it would seem. It's sketchy also, that ME2 is much more incomplete unless you have all the DLC. What a hustle. Anyway, hopefully you'll review ME3 so I'll know whether or not to play it. Thanks much and keep up the fine fight.
@jimmasterjam so your saying that just by being a videogame, a toy its supost to suck? I fell insulted by your comment you must be 50 years old and against games to say that.
If you buy a toster that doesnt tost your bread will you just ignore it?
I played the first of the Mass Effect games and I loved it and then I got the second game and even though there was some things wrong with it I still enjoyed it immensely just for what it was.
It is hinted at in several side missions, and even at the very beginning of the game, that Cerberus has rogue branches that could have been (and probably were) responsible for the events in the last game. If you know how Cerberus is run, you could see how easy it would be for the Illusive Man to temporarily lose control of any particular branch of his organization. The real story, however, is left in a gray area, and this is something I expect to be answered in ME3.
I would love to create an in-depth analysis about why every point you've brought up so far is absolutely wrong, but I'll be brief:
First:
They don't develop Shepard's character because you ARE Shepard.
Shepard dies and then is resurrected in order to separate him/her from the previous crew and start a new story with new characters and a different paradigm.
Second:
Shepard is the only one capable of gaining alien sympathy against the reaper threat, which is being concealed by those in power.
1st) Format (medium) does not equate plot, character development, nor exclude both. Nothing was stopping Shepard from developing, when side characters did so. Shepard's story: where? That separation could've been done much better.
2nd) Oh really? I don't recall that ever being pointed out in the plot, or by anyone, or have it being relevant. Keep stretching.
1) So you're saying you don't like the plot because it's a video game? Good one. Sorry, but you have to set a standard for how you want your game played out. You can't switch from player-driven character development to narrative-driven out of the blue. That's insane.
2) It is pointed out. In the beginning dialog. Sorry subtlety escaped you.
3) What do you mean, "so"? A bunch of your arguments rest on Cerberus having no good reason to bring Shep back to life.
1) I don't like the plot because it's a consistently bad plot. As I said before, medium does not equate nor exclude it. I have no idea what you're talking about regarding player-driven character development/narrative driven whatever.
2) No it isn't and no Shepard isn't. And if it is, so what? Not part of the plot. Ergo, pointless.
So you don't consider the whole bit about Shepard being the last hope for humanity to be motivation for Cerberus -- a human supremacy group -- to resurrect Shepard? The entire point of the dialog between Miranda and the Illusive Man was to explain that nobody else believed in the reaper threat. Cerberus is a rogue agency; it can't convince the alliance, let alone the council, to take action. They need somebody who can. Who better but the only human specter; a hero to all races?
They gave plenty of reasons (all stupid ones) in the beginning for resurrecting Shepard, and none of them were realized, practical, sensical, or involved the plot at all. They could've had any other person of capable aptitude (Miranda, Jacob, etc.) to be their glorified hero, and ME2 would've gone along just fine.
I don't know? TIM's an info broker. Manipulate them as he pleases. Maybe having a dead Reaper might help? EDI? Regardless of how, none of this had anything to do with the plot.
@smudboy Why doesn't it have to do with the plot? The collectors are harvesting humans to create a new reaper. That's pretty central to the plot, if you ask me.
Cerberus revives Shepard to rally the races against the reapers. In the meantime, Shepard is asked to investigate the disappearance of human colonies and the attack on him/her two years ago. Shepard organizes a team, discovers the collectors are behind both events, and then proceeds to stomp on them. Problems?
TIM and Miranda had little idea the Collectors were involved or what they were doing, thus invalidating any reason to bring Shepard back.
The reasons they did bring him back had nothing to do with the plot of ME2, which was to Stop the Collectors. Anyone of capable ability could've stopped the Collectors in the way the story unfolded.
Problems? Every major plot point, a lack of character development, brainded-illogic abound, retcons, plot holes, etc. There's a joke.
@smudboy They brought Shepard back to deal with the REAPERS, not the Collectors. The Collectors ended up being central to the plot after the fact.
I suppose they COULD have just left this story completely untold and just skipped ahead, with a brief exposition saying "Oh, and Miranda and Jacob had an awesome adventure in which they found out these guys called the Collectors were working for the reapers and they stopped them", but why? Why do that? Let us play that story.
Exactly. They wanted him to do X, he ended up doing Y. This is not called good plot development. That is essentially a side story.
ME2 could've had any series of meaningful stories or plots about stopping the Reapers. ME2 did nothing to do so, proved nothing within that context, and revealed that...the Collectors are Protheans. Fantastic.
@smudboy Why is it not "good" development? It's a story. Does it matter that it's about Y and not X? Did it disappoint you that Shepard wasn't battling the reapers directly? Why is it so wrong for Bioware to tell the story they wanted to tell? Maybe they wanted to establish their universe a little more before they tore it apart when the reapers arrived. Why does it matter?
In my opinion, the game wasn't really about the reapers, the collectors, or even Shepard. It was about the characters. They wanted to build up a meaningful character story that they could then carry over into ME3. So really, saying that the plot is shortsighted and doesn't establish anything is missing the point. That's like saying Citizen Kane is a dumb movie because the only thing that happens is Kane gets adopted, takes over a newspaper company, becomes rich, then dies.
You are correct. The central theme of the story was "Shepard deals with everyone's daddy issues." But that's not what the plot is about.
And you are missing the point by not realizing what the point of the plot was: stop the Collectors. Which had little, to nothing, to do with the Reaper plot.
@smudboy Before I even contest that statement, let me ask: Why is that a problem? Is there a law that says every Mass Effect game needs to deal with the reapers only, and any tangential subjects are banned? The Collectors tie in very heavily with the reapers, and whether or not you think they were worth mentioning is irrelevant. The writers wanted to expand their universe, and they did. Big deal.
Because it's a side story. They have nothing to do with the overarching plot. Now, if it was told well, that's another issue, but still has no place being a sequel. ME2 ends exactly where ME1 ends; nothing happened.
@smudboy I agree that there wasn't substantial progress in the direction of the reaper invasion, but as I've already said, it is my opinion that the writers were using this game to set up for the third game. They wanted a broader cast of characters, and an expanded universe, and they didn't want to cram it into a single game.
On a side note, the Arrival DLC (it's canon) shows the reapers arriving at the edge of the galaxy where the alpha relay would have been (it was destroyed).
I don't care what you think the writers were doing. It is obvious nothing happened. To think they set anything up is preposterous: why would they even need a "bridging" DLC? It's garbage storytelling, (optional) patchwork with a pricetag, and pathetic in any basic, literary standards.
@smudboy Whether or not you feel that a bridging DLC is "garbage storytelling", and pathetic (I agree, by the way) doesn't change the fact that it is part of the game. If you want to consider the story, you HAVE to factor it in without regard to your personal feelings about the subject.
@smudboy It's about time you realized that this thread was going nowhere. I was starting to think you were going to argue forever for the sake of arguing. Back to the subject now? Why the plot is "bad"? I've already stated a few reasons I think you're wrong in a couple of areas. Let's focus on Shepard's resurrection, since you seem to hate that so much.
I noted that you seem to think this devalues death, as if it can be done over and over again. But it can't. There's no time.
It took two years to do it the first time, and I was under the impression that it almost failed more than once. Not to mention the finances involved. I doubt Cerberus would do it again. This was a one-time deal.
@smudboy But it is curious that you mention "literary standards" as if they apply in full to video games. You know there's a whole branch of study dedicated to video games? You'd think they'd just copy/paste everything from the literature department and call it a day. Too bad it doesn't work like that.
My point: I don't care if ME2 doesn't continue directly off of ME1. They can make a billion side games if they want and call them whatever. Doesn't impact the canon; just delays it.
Yes, it is too bad idiots can't follow basic storytelling techniques! Or hire editors. Doesn't matter what branch of ludology you subscribe to. Stories, written or oral, have a long tradition, rules, and proper modes of being told. If video games are ever going to be comparable to works of fiction, they have to be written better: or at least comparable.
My point: ME2 plot commits suicide and is a lesson on how not to write.
@smudboy So while you might be in favor of renaming the game Mass Effect: Faffing About, I would argue that we won't know the significance of every event in ME2 until ME3 comes alone. Thus, you have no place saying that nothing in ME2 is consequential.
Not only do I not have to say it: it proves itself, being irrelevant. You simply have to play the game to discover it. Or just watch the vids. It's pretty damned obvious.
Right! I'm sure ME3 will also cure cancer, and fix every plot hole in ME1, too! :)
@smudboy Not deal with the reapers directly, but to rally the races against them. This had nothing to do with the collectors until after Shepard's investigation of the missing colonies. You could call the Collector story arc filler, if you so choose, but there were several questions that were answered by telling us this story.
1) How the reapers reproduce
2) What Cerberus really is
3) Who the Shadow Broker is (if you played the DLC)
@smudboy Hell, you could even say that killing off Shepard for two years illustrates why Shepard is so important to the galaxy. As soon as he/she is gone, everything goes back to business as usual. The council (if they survived) denies the reapers' existence, and nobody wants to investigate the missing colonies (because aliens don't like humans?). The galaxy would be doomed.
@smudboy Allow me to elaborate on the first one further.
A video game that allows the player to behave freely, like Mass Effect, doing good or evil actions as he/she sees fit should not suddenly start telling you how to feel about his/her own character. It's ridiculous. You don't see dungeon masters in D&D rolling the dice to decide if your character is crying at the loss of a companion, do you?
It shouldn't? Oh, I guess we should eliminate all choice/dialog options in the story then.
Shepard's choices are dependent on the player. Alas, none of shows any development. Shepard's still a brick. The plot has killed itself. There's no opportunity for character development.
@smudboy Perhaps if YOU, as a player, chose not to develop, then yes, your character showed no development. When I played through, however, I got a very good sense of who Shepard was. The problem with your analysis is that you don't consider the player. You analyze as if this were a film or a novel, and it's not. You have to consider the person behind the controller.
Hey I was reading the forums when I came across this do you agree?
What If Cerberus And The Shadow Broker Switched
What I mean is what if, instead of Shep being revived by Cerberus, S/He was revied by a nebouls group with lots of power and access to information, the Shadow Broker?
Would the story have changed at all if Shep's backer in ME2 was the Shadow Broker and Cerberus was still a fring threat?
Would it be a better story? Would it go into ME3 better?
would love to listen to your explanation, but seriously, I can't, I simply can't hear you clearly over the loud and annoying music in the background *sigh
I feel like this analysis is missing the point, well if you take the game as another opportunity to show your intellect by trying to find as many nuances that do not exactly fit then this is exactly what you should do. But for most people that is not the point of gaming, as long as the story feels somewhat good in the context of things and If I were to say, It does. no offence to you and your videos,you certainly put a lot of thought into it, but to me it rly seems kinda pointless, coz ME2 Izgud
While I can see the narrative by definition incorporating every piece of media, the plot is quite something else, and has nothing to do with a lot of the game (music, some visuals, characters, game play, etc.)
oki, lets stick to the whole plot theme, I would like to know if there is a video game story that you find rly rly good and submit it to your criteria of judgment. Could you do that?
LOL biodrones defending obvious plot holes by esteemed bioware writers.
Hey Joker, did you know that I helped with cerberus' R&D with this skeletal reinforcement upgrade that I can use? Why don't you try it instead of walking around like a silly gimp like you did in the first game?
Lazarus project is just a nice way to redesign normandy/let you make your character with better graphics/give you new crex members/have a polot hote to avoid boring parties and shit, no reason to hate about it
@smudboy really, who cares? Only a nerd with social problems cares about how possible is lazarus project or if the resason of cerberus bring shepard back was good enough. We, normal people, are more concerned what it represent, about how cool is the hero coming back from death to kick the villains ass.
@smudboy It's about you trying to call attention to yourself. ME is far from perfect. IT's base is a lot of science fiction reference put together and a deus ex machina here, another there. But damn, we love it and we don't really care! The effort to explain how things work in codex is enough, nobody reaaly want every single detail working in perfection. Considering the complexity of the game (three games connected, remember), it's amazing what they achieve so far...
The perfection you want just don't exist in a game. by th way, in ME universe kinetic barriers are used to send probes to high pressures planets, so yes, Shepard's shield helped to preserve his body. No it's not the perfect answer but, hey again, who cares?
@smudboy You should repeat yourself over and over again. By repetition maybe you start to make sense. Shep body was preserved by his shields, Lazarus project was something TIM was alread working on and decide to test in Shepard (as he did in ME: Retribution), He would be useful as a flag against the reapers (ME3) and was useful to help him aquire Reaper technology and stop the Collectors.. Live with that..
Also, just for shits and giggles, and to erase any glimmer of hope you still had of ME3 being good, google "Mass Effect came out almost eight years ago". Then proceed to play Dragon Age 2 while constantly reminding yourself Mac Walters hasn't been sacked yet and will be in charge of the "writing".
Shepard's death at the beginning was purely to allow new players to get into the trilogy, it could be even said that bioware did that because of the PS3 version which they knew wouldn't get ME1
ME2 plot? What plot!. All you do is recuit and babysit your crews whiny needs. =/
Not to mention your worst enm are mercs who seem to have a insane amount of soldiers. Makes you wonder they havnt invaded a planet yet. Oh i know, they ran into super-cop Shepard!. xD
I would actually like to point to something a bit more fitting than the Nixon tapes. The X-Men. The X-Men were meant to be covert protectors, and yet they have that X in a circle logo on everything in most of their incarnations.
1. I agree that the fact that they put it on everything is stupid, but remember Nixon recorded every conversation he had in the Oval Office, just because something's stupid doesn't mean it's implausible, or that the meaning behind the symbol would be known to anyone.
2. I always heard that line as him thinking that the project needs more funding, not his own pockets.
@smudboy 1. I'm just giving an equivalency (seemingly stupid decisions that work in the world created)... although if you want to get technical comic books do have quite a bit to do with ME2. 1. Many of the locals and persons fit into tropes that were, if not started by, then popularized by comics (the hot scientist (Liara and Tali), the bad guy bar (Eternity), the wrench wench (Tali and arguably Kasumi), etc), not to mention the fact that there were several miniseries that give back-story.
@Jonstern1983 a dark and ancient evil rises... your quintessential party and band of misfits with personalities... In search for high adventure, thrills and your date with destiny against the unstoppable evil force... in a bioware game...
made some 10-12 odd years ago with cooperation from Interplay known as Baldur's Gate. And to go back even farther, 80's JRPG.
I can't find the comment to which I am replying so here goes.
1. Numerous secret societies have logos, that doesn't mean that they are trying to not be secret. OR the logo could be one of these innocuousness things that no one outside of Cerberus should recognize.
2. He said the PROJECT needed more money, not him personally. He was surprised because he didn't think the project would be a success with the limited funds. I can't find anything where he whines about some girl ignoring him.
1. That a secret society has a logo is already frightening; the fact Cerberus puts it on everything: walls, clothings, ships, etc. is plain stupid.
2. Wilson: "I don't know where the boss gets all his money...maybe it's better not to know. I just wish he'd kick a little more in my direction once in a while."
1. Becauuse the whole story involves Commander Shepard touring the galaxy in his Cerberus logo'd Normandy SR2 after they come back from the dead?
2. Speculation. All we know is money and Miranda's cold shoulder. Not a reason to kill and destroy everyone. Besides, we still don't have any knowledge that Wilson's the genius death-defying scientist, or he was jealous, or anything else. Seemed pretty surprised Shepard was alive and walking about.
@smudboy 1. How many people recognize the Cerberus logo in the game (The Quarians, Jack, Anderson, Liara, and the VS) all of whom have had personal contact with Cerberus, so their logo is probably not common knowledge.
2. Yours is speculation as well. Granted we do know Miranda is a cold fish, but we don't know that he felt attracted to her, and we don't know how much money he was actually making. All we know is that Miranda blamed him for the sabotage.
2. What? There are audio logs. That's called evidence, not speculation. You know, of Wilson wishing he had more money, and of Miranda not paying him attention. We take Miranda at face value as she kills him and off we go.
How about 3. Wilson uncovered something about what Cerberus did that started to nag at his conscience or made him fear for his safety. 4. He was working for the Alliance or the council the whole time, and he finally got all the information he needed to take down Cerberus (information regarding base locations, numbers, tech, etc.). Also, there is the option to chew Miranda out for shooting this guy.
Shepard brings two things to the table that an army of mercs doesn't. 1. (S)He is an almost god-like hero in parts of the galaxy's eyes (most of it if you choose to save the council), which would give any group he leads a bigger moral boost than, a threesome with Mila Kunis and Scarlet Johanson. and 2. (S)He was the person who lead the fight against Sovereign. Meaning that if TIM's hunch is correct, (S)He would be the best person to lead the fight against the Collectors.
-After after they're back, the only thing it gets them is discounts at stores.
-While it's logical to believe if earth's greatest soldier falls, so will lesser soldiers (and everyone else), the fact they already fell changes the game plan.
@smudboy 1. If T. E. Laurence was somehow raised from the dead exactly as he was, don't you think that would give the army he's leading a bit of a moral boost. 2. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. 3. You're right, it makes it more crucial that they get the best and prepare. 4. So that wasn't Shepard telling Joker (who did score the killing blow against the ship) to save/ignore the Council. Or maybe it wasn't Shepard's ground team actually taking out Sovereign's brain.
The death and resurrection motif worked in American Gods, The story of Horus, Doctor Who (12 times at last count), Superman, X-Men (Too many times to count), Dragon Ball Z, and Yu Yu Hakusho. Just to name 7 works, where this has happened, also in all of those except for Yu Yu Hakusho their death is given a far less explained reason. Oh, I'm the goddess of rebirth. Huh, I was dead? weird. I'm a time lord. I wasn't really dead (cop out imo). The power of vagueness. I wish on balls.
Thanks for these videos. After seeing all the praise for this game, I'm glad that *someone* shares my distaste for how Bioware handled it as a sequel.
I mean, I don't agree with everything you say - for instance, I think the death and resurrection of Shepard is a good introduction - but the changes to the gameplay (especially the introduction of reloading), lack of SDTV support, plot holes, general story confusion, and restrictive dialogue choices make this game a failed sequel to a great game.
There is obviously alternative motives to Cerberus' actions...since you are fighting them in ME3 and they are perhaps aligned with the Reapers (I mean they are a pro- Human group and at the end you kill a Reaper Larva who IS human) and Shepherd is meant to be an empty character because YOU are Shepherd. All the problems you've brought up are things that we aren't supposed to know yet. ME3 will answer the questions we are left with from ME2. I disliked the lack of RPG in ME2 but plot felt fine.
Why are you whispering, are you afraid to wake up somebody next room? It's annoying to hear someone 'sexytalking the microphone' complete with sound of your saliva sticking and unsticking inside your mouth
Contiuing) ... What matters is you enjoy game and get entertainment out of the plot. There diffrent from movies. No matter how good the story is, gameplay must come first. Story second.
The RPG decision making is not top notch. It's laughable compared to games like Alpha Protocol, The Witcher 2, Deus Ex, etc. There are only two choices: keep or sell legion, keep or destroy base. The side characters have nothing to do with the plot, and could all be DLC for all they're worth.
@smudboy You have diffrent situations that you can outcome in a diffrent way. If somone dies, if someone escapes etc. Sure the actual main plot alterations a thin, but its not like ME1 you could endlessly change the plot. You pretty much decide if the rachni live, Kaiden or Ashley live, and if the council survive. Its the subplots that matter. And personally, I love every character in ME2 (cept Miranda, shes a bland eye candy bitch whos butt hurt about being a genetic superwomen.)
@smudboy I agree that the main plot wasnt excactly brilliant, even though Im a die hard fan. And I meant that you COULDNT endlessly change the plot in ME1, typo on my behalf.
when i was looking at this i saw a couple flaws in the first point where you will not exceed termenal volocity and on earth its only 120 mph so sadly no splat also there is not an earth like atmosphere no air and the planet is frozen. I agree with the other statements though but u would be able to salvage the body.
@smudboy Terminal Velocity isn't when velocity equals 0, it's when you no longer accelerate (from gravity's pull) due to air resistance. In space, there's no such thing as terminal velocity b/c you're in a vaccuum. However, once you enter any atmosphere, terminal velocity exists (although the value of it depends on numerous variables).
I was actually expecting an intelligent critique a la Plinkett. you have shown that his style is clearly not for everyone. This critique is just filled with ridiculous arguments, stupid things to be pissed about and ignores much more interesting things to be concerned about.
Christ, some of these are justified, but smudboy, at least half are just really badly picked out, I'd go into detail but I'm sure everyone else can see it too.
I agree with some of your points. But a big one you brought up was that the Illusive Man says "go" and Shepard does it without question, I always considered it to be more that the Shepard was more bound to his species rather than Cerberus, Cerberus were merely supplying him with the resources to stop the Collectors. The motive for Shepard's revival was that he represented humanity's use in the universe, besides, he already took down Saren and a reaper, he is clearly skilled.
So Cerberus is doing it for humanity, and you guess Shepard is doing it for humanity, and TIM picked Shepard because of his use to represent humanity in the universe. Ah huh.. I clearly "badly picked" out those on my part.
Though there's nothing wrong with a protagonist charging ahead regardless of the conditions imposed, the lack of development of Cerberus -- which seems like the main ME goto plot device -- their particular conditions, agenda and history is just there. It may as well be anyone else (sans the resurrection/Shepard musings.) To say Shepard's more bound to a species (like their own) is only barely mentioned, and is only part of the premise.
I believe they retcon the medic in the beginnings death but showing his file in shadow broker claiming he was working for them. Still slip-shotty though
@130lukas That's not exactly a retcon, because it doesn't attempt to rewrite something that has been established in a previous work. More like a patch to fill a gap that the original narrative didn't cover.
You seem to hold Mass Effect in very high esteem, but enjoyable as it was, it was pretty much "Babylon 5 by the way of KotOR", with names changed. Hard to really screw stuff up when you're pretty much ripping things off in huge chunks and stuff holes with cliches.
What ME2 did right, for the contrived mess its story was - was that it was Mass Effect, rather than "Zazylon 6".
@a0classcriminal To me, at least, the parts that were similar (ripped-off?) to Babylon 5 were a bit more obvious in ME2. Compare the Shadows to the Collector General. They even look the same right down to the multiple glowing eyes! At least the plot was different in ME1 with elder machine gods. In ME2 it's straight up stop the Shad..err Collectors without the build-up that Babylon 5 had.
Honestly having watched almost all of your videos over the last year, I have to appreciate your dedication to making a rational, supported analysis. While I don't agree with you on everything, I highly enjoy your work.
I love Mass Effect 2. I know it basically have zero story and a bunch of weird/unnecessary moments (or "retcons") but i still have a blast playing it everytime. The first game had a great, deep story but the gameplay weren't that fun and the graphics were kind of buggy... I hope they do a compromise with ME3 - Make an epic deep story like the first game but make it as fun as ME2! You CAN have the cake and eat it too you know :D
@smudboy considering that most of your ME2 videos seem to average around 3,000 views, and the few that have gone beyond that plateau have taken more than a year to gain less than 20,000 views, I'm not exactly sure what you think constitutes support for your opinion??? In the opinion of myself and around 90%-96% of gamers and gaming biz pros, this game is superb. And that's a FACT!
@smudboy Are you angered by the incredible and unrelenting critical and commercial success ME2 has received? I mean let's face it, like it or not, ME2 is hailed as one of the great games of this or any generation.
@Smudboy Wow I really hope your doing all these ME2 videos for educational purposes, otherwise, your apparent extreme hatred of the game comes across as kinda weird, and a little creepy. I've noticed that there is nearly zero concensus for your pov, and personally I think ME2's plot and story help push game narratives to a level previously unrealized.
Probably the only good sequel they've made is Baldur's Gate 2.
I disagree wit you, smudboy. The plot in Mass Effect 2, whilst having more holes than a piece of cheese, wasn't really centred around the MAIN plot. Were it got good was in the loyalty missions, which were mostly interesting and deep. Mordin's especially. But the main plot IS (Mostly) goddamn stupid.
I know, but since they're sequels to BioWare videogames, and NV was a "sequel" to a Bethesda game, it's easy to notice: The sequels that they've made to BioWare games sucked. I think this is kinda a problem with BioWare: They always tend to leave things wrapped up, so there's no room for a sequel. Of course, with Mass Effect having been planned to be a trilogy they had no excuse, but the other cases do suffer from this.
You are a fucking retard. If I could be bothered I would counter every shitty argument you put forward but you seriously aren't worth the slightest effort.
pjgmorgan 3 hours ago
@pjgmorgan
If I had a dime for everyone who's tried...
smudboy 2 hours ago
that would be much better without that annoying music
naruko17 8 hours ago
Unwatchable. Thanks for making but holy crap that music in the background drowns you out man. zzzz. =\
toldaddy 1 day ago
I like what you have to say mate, but your audio mixing is terrible. Sorry...
youskinfan 2 days ago
I can only say one thing ... i 100% agree. I loved the ME1 story, i hated the ME2 story, because the story is simply stupid.
JukkaPalme100 3 days ago
Thank you for making a distinction between plot, premise, and theme. I can't remember any other movie or game reviews done in this style that took the time to clarify them.
SMcCall64 5 days ago
Sory to say, your analysis is so bad. Try playing the game through total Paragon, and you will have another grater perspective... If you still aren't smarter, then go and play/ ridicule another game.
And for you who didn't understand him, in short, he said that he hadn't played it and hated it.
DKannji 6 days ago
@DKannji
Paragon/Renegade choices do not change the plot.
smudboy 6 days ago
Could you list the music used in this? :)
muesk3 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
SHUT THE FUCKING MUSIC OFF
STsixx 1 week ago
SHUT THE FUCKING MUSIC OFF
STsixx 1 week ago 2
@STsixx AMEN.
toldaddy 1 day ago
Defenders of this story took a weird turn - instead of saying it's actually good and Smudboy is just wrong now they say it's a "toy" so who the f*ck cares. Huh.
ProkoLokor 1 week ago 2
Those that are telling smudboy to [insert profanity here] should consider the fact that he isn't bashing on the story for the sake of it. He is criticizing BioWare's writing and is providing substantial facts to support it. I like his in-depth analysis and hope the writers like the ones in BioWare take vids like this into account....especially the writers of ME3.
devilsadvocate22289 1 week ago 2
no suck a dick and die
lilln2ir 1 week ago
suck a dick
lilln2ir 1 week ago
Nice work. When I first started playing ME2 it was difficult to understand why it felt so disjointed. Your plot analysis really pinpoints the reasons. Bioware knows how to write a story but just doesn't know how to tell it it would seem. It's sketchy also, that ME2 is much more incomplete unless you have all the DLC. What a hustle. Anyway, hopefully you'll review ME3 so I'll know whether or not to play it. Thanks much and keep up the fine fight.
purgeyou 3 weeks ago
suck it
CMDNEYO416 1 month ago
I loev your reviews, about time Bioware got called out for all the shit they tried to pull with these games.
St2udent 1 month ago
It scares me how in depth this is. It is a videogame, It is a toy.
jimmasterjam 1 month ago
@jimmasterjam
I suppose Shakespeare just wrote plays?
smudboy 1 month ago 12
@smudboy
Yes he did. What is your point?
jimmasterjam 1 month ago
@jimmasterjam
When you pay attention, media isn't just the medium they're in.
smudboy 1 month ago 13
Just a inconvenient Red Letter Media copycat.
charlieldom 3 weeks ago
@jimmasterjam so your saying that just by being a videogame, a toy its supost to suck? I fell insulted by your comment you must be 50 years old and against games to say that.
If you buy a toster that doesnt tost your bread will you just ignore it?
cheers
brianbv 3 weeks ago
@jimmasterjam
Video games are a viable story-telling medium. True story.
OniLink96 1 week ago
@OniLink96
It can be, but in most games its just filler. Same goes for Mass Effect. Walk and shoot for a bit, then listen to people talking. Rinse repeat...
KoningStoma 3 days ago
@KoningStoma
Well, yes, there's typically gameplay in a video game. If I wanted a movie, I'd go buy a movie.
The fact that a game has gameplay doesn't mean it's not a viable story-telling medium.
OniLink96 3 days ago
Look at all the assmad biodrones.
Tomeg12 1 month ago
I played the first of the Mass Effect games and I loved it and then I got the second game and even though there was some things wrong with it I still enjoyed it immensely just for what it was.
monkeyfart105 1 month ago
lol that one kid is a vacuum collector, just like the Collectors in Mass Effect ha!
XHotShot7 1 month ago
A Pro human bit that experiments ON humans? ABUH?
unclestaco 2 months ago
(Continued)
Third:
It is hinted at in several side missions, and even at the very beginning of the game, that Cerberus has rogue branches that could have been (and probably were) responsible for the events in the last game. If you know how Cerberus is run, you could see how easy it would be for the Illusive Man to temporarily lose control of any particular branch of his organization. The real story, however, is left in a gray area, and this is something I expect to be answered in ME3.
quakertroy 2 months ago
I would love to create an in-depth analysis about why every point you've brought up so far is absolutely wrong, but I'll be brief:
First:
They don't develop Shepard's character because you ARE Shepard.
Shepard dies and then is resurrected in order to separate him/her from the previous crew and start a new story with new characters and a different paradigm.
Second:
Shepard is the only one capable of gaining alien sympathy against the reaper threat, which is being concealed by those in power.
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
1st) Format (medium) does not equate plot, character development, nor exclude both. Nothing was stopping Shepard from developing, when side characters did so. Shepard's story: where? That separation could've been done much better.
2nd) Oh really? I don't recall that ever being pointed out in the plot, or by anyone, or have it being relevant. Keep stretching.
3rd) So? Irrelevant. ME2 apologist view. I'm sure ME3 will cure cancer, too.
smudboy 2 months ago
@smudboy
1) So you're saying you don't like the plot because it's a video game? Good one. Sorry, but you have to set a standard for how you want your game played out. You can't switch from player-driven character development to narrative-driven out of the blue. That's insane.
2) It is pointed out. In the beginning dialog. Sorry subtlety escaped you.
3) What do you mean, "so"? A bunch of your arguments rest on Cerberus having no good reason to bring Shep back to life.
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
1) I don't like the plot because it's a consistently bad plot. As I said before, medium does not equate nor exclude it. I have no idea what you're talking about regarding player-driven character development/narrative driven whatever.
2) No it isn't and no Shepard isn't. And if it is, so what? Not part of the plot. Ergo, pointless.
3) So? What's your point?
smudboy 2 months ago
So you don't consider the whole bit about Shepard being the last hope for humanity to be motivation for Cerberus -- a human supremacy group -- to resurrect Shepard? The entire point of the dialog between Miranda and the Illusive Man was to explain that nobody else believed in the reaper threat. Cerberus is a rogue agency; it can't convince the alliance, let alone the council, to take action. They need somebody who can. Who better but the only human specter; a hero to all races?
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
They gave plenty of reasons (all stupid ones) in the beginning for resurrecting Shepard, and none of them were realized, practical, sensical, or involved the plot at all. They could've had any other person of capable aptitude (Miranda, Jacob, etc.) to be their glorified hero, and ME2 would've gone along just fine.
smudboy 2 months ago
@smudboy How is Miranda or Jacob going to convince the citadel races to take action against the collectors?
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
I don't know? TIM's an info broker. Manipulate them as he pleases. Maybe having a dead Reaper might help? EDI? Regardless of how, none of this had anything to do with the plot.
smudboy 2 months ago
@smudboy Why doesn't it have to do with the plot? The collectors are harvesting humans to create a new reaper. That's pretty central to the plot, if you ask me.
Cerberus revives Shepard to rally the races against the reapers. In the meantime, Shepard is asked to investigate the disappearance of human colonies and the attack on him/her two years ago. Shepard organizes a team, discovers the collectors are behind both events, and then proceeds to stomp on them. Problems?
There's the plot
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
TIM and Miranda had little idea the Collectors were involved or what they were doing, thus invalidating any reason to bring Shepard back.
The reasons they did bring him back had nothing to do with the plot of ME2, which was to Stop the Collectors. Anyone of capable ability could've stopped the Collectors in the way the story unfolded.
Problems? Every major plot point, a lack of character development, brainded-illogic abound, retcons, plot holes, etc. There's a joke.
smudboy 2 months ago
@smudboy They brought Shepard back to deal with the REAPERS, not the Collectors. The Collectors ended up being central to the plot after the fact.
I suppose they COULD have just left this story completely untold and just skipped ahead, with a brief exposition saying "Oh, and Miranda and Jacob had an awesome adventure in which they found out these guys called the Collectors were working for the reapers and they stopped them", but why? Why do that? Let us play that story.
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
Exactly. They wanted him to do X, he ended up doing Y. This is not called good plot development. That is essentially a side story.
ME2 could've had any series of meaningful stories or plots about stopping the Reapers. ME2 did nothing to do so, proved nothing within that context, and revealed that...the Collectors are Protheans. Fantastic.
smudboy 2 months ago
@smudboy Why is it not "good" development? It's a story. Does it matter that it's about Y and not X? Did it disappoint you that Shepard wasn't battling the reapers directly? Why is it so wrong for Bioware to tell the story they wanted to tell? Maybe they wanted to establish their universe a little more before they tore it apart when the reapers arrived. Why does it matter?
quakertroy 2 months ago
In my opinion, the game wasn't really about the reapers, the collectors, or even Shepard. It was about the characters. They wanted to build up a meaningful character story that they could then carry over into ME3. So really, saying that the plot is shortsighted and doesn't establish anything is missing the point. That's like saying Citizen Kane is a dumb movie because the only thing that happens is Kane gets adopted, takes over a newspaper company, becomes rich, then dies.
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
You are correct. The central theme of the story was "Shepard deals with everyone's daddy issues." But that's not what the plot is about.
And you are missing the point by not realizing what the point of the plot was: stop the Collectors. Which had little, to nothing, to do with the Reaper plot.
smudboy 2 months ago
@smudboy Before I even contest that statement, let me ask: Why is that a problem? Is there a law that says every Mass Effect game needs to deal with the reapers only, and any tangential subjects are banned? The Collectors tie in very heavily with the reapers, and whether or not you think they were worth mentioning is irrelevant. The writers wanted to expand their universe, and they did. Big deal.
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
Because it's a side story. They have nothing to do with the overarching plot. Now, if it was told well, that's another issue, but still has no place being a sequel. ME2 ends exactly where ME1 ends; nothing happened.
smudboy 2 months ago
@smudboy I agree that there wasn't substantial progress in the direction of the reaper invasion, but as I've already said, it is my opinion that the writers were using this game to set up for the third game. They wanted a broader cast of characters, and an expanded universe, and they didn't want to cram it into a single game.
On a side note, the Arrival DLC (it's canon) shows the reapers arriving at the edge of the galaxy where the alpha relay would have been (it was destroyed).
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
I don't care what you think the writers were doing. It is obvious nothing happened. To think they set anything up is preposterous: why would they even need a "bridging" DLC? It's garbage storytelling, (optional) patchwork with a pricetag, and pathetic in any basic, literary standards.
smudboy 2 months ago
@smudboy Whether or not you feel that a bridging DLC is "garbage storytelling", and pathetic (I agree, by the way) doesn't change the fact that it is part of the game. If you want to consider the story, you HAVE to factor it in without regard to your personal feelings about the subject.
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
Um...I made a ME2 *plot* analysis? Yeah. Go watch my Arrival vids if you're so inclined.
smudboy 2 months ago
@smudboy It's about time you realized that this thread was going nowhere. I was starting to think you were going to argue forever for the sake of arguing. Back to the subject now? Why the plot is "bad"? I've already stated a few reasons I think you're wrong in a couple of areas. Let's focus on Shepard's resurrection, since you seem to hate that so much.
I noted that you seem to think this devalues death, as if it can be done over and over again. But it can't. There's no time.
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
My arguments are quite valid. Or is your thread going nowhere?
Honestly, I'm getting bored of your random, baseless points.
smudboy 2 months ago
@smudboy (continued)
It took two years to do it the first time, and I was under the impression that it almost failed more than once. Not to mention the finances involved. I doubt Cerberus would do it again. This was a one-time deal.
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
...and there was absolutely no reason to bring Shepard back, as proven. In the plot.
Nevermind it being absolutely-fucking-retarded to even consider doing it.
smudboy 2 months ago
@smudboy But it is curious that you mention "literary standards" as if they apply in full to video games. You know there's a whole branch of study dedicated to video games? You'd think they'd just copy/paste everything from the literature department and call it a day. Too bad it doesn't work like that.
My point: I don't care if ME2 doesn't continue directly off of ME1. They can make a billion side games if they want and call them whatever. Doesn't impact the canon; just delays it.
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
Yes, it is too bad idiots can't follow basic storytelling techniques! Or hire editors. Doesn't matter what branch of ludology you subscribe to. Stories, written or oral, have a long tradition, rules, and proper modes of being told. If video games are ever going to be comparable to works of fiction, they have to be written better: or at least comparable.
My point: ME2 plot commits suicide and is a lesson on how not to write.
smudboy 2 months ago
@smudboy So while you might be in favor of renaming the game Mass Effect: Faffing About, I would argue that we won't know the significance of every event in ME2 until ME3 comes alone. Thus, you have no place saying that nothing in ME2 is consequential.
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
Not only do I not have to say it: it proves itself, being irrelevant. You simply have to play the game to discover it. Or just watch the vids. It's pretty damned obvious.
Right! I'm sure ME3 will also cure cancer, and fix every plot hole in ME1, too! :)
smudboy 2 months ago
@smudboy Not deal with the reapers directly, but to rally the races against them. This had nothing to do with the collectors until after Shepard's investigation of the missing colonies. You could call the Collector story arc filler, if you so choose, but there were several questions that were answered by telling us this story.
1) How the reapers reproduce
2) What Cerberus really is
3) Who the Shadow Broker is (if you played the DLC)
4) How events are handled in the wake of Sovreign
quakertroy 2 months ago
@smudboy Hell, you could even say that killing off Shepard for two years illustrates why Shepard is so important to the galaxy. As soon as he/she is gone, everything goes back to business as usual. The council (if they survived) denies the reapers' existence, and nobody wants to investigate the missing colonies (because aliens don't like humans?). The galaxy would be doomed.
quakertroy 2 months ago
@smudboy Allow me to elaborate on the first one further.
A video game that allows the player to behave freely, like Mass Effect, doing good or evil actions as he/she sees fit should not suddenly start telling you how to feel about his/her own character. It's ridiculous. You don't see dungeon masters in D&D rolling the dice to decide if your character is crying at the loss of a companion, do you?
How Shepard develops as a character is up to YOU.
quakertroy 2 months ago
@quakertroy
It shouldn't? Oh, I guess we should eliminate all choice/dialog options in the story then.
Shepard's choices are dependent on the player. Alas, none of shows any development. Shepard's still a brick. The plot has killed itself. There's no opportunity for character development.
smudboy 2 months ago
@smudboy Perhaps if YOU, as a player, chose not to develop, then yes, your character showed no development. When I played through, however, I got a very good sense of who Shepard was. The problem with your analysis is that you don't consider the player. You analyze as if this were a film or a novel, and it's not. You have to consider the person behind the controller.
quakertroy 2 months ago
Hey I was reading the forums when I came across this do you agree?
What If Cerberus And The Shadow Broker Switched
What I mean is what if, instead of Shep being revived by Cerberus, S/He was revied by a nebouls group with lots of power and access to information, the Shadow Broker?
Would the story have changed at all if Shep's backer in ME2 was the Shadow Broker and Cerberus was still a fring threat?
Would it be a better story? Would it go into ME3 better?
GhostCamaroX75 2 months ago
Every time I watch this I get sad, because BioWare wasted so much potential.
SelfmadePrison 2 months ago
0.05- Mass Effect 2 has one of the worst plots in the history of gaming sequels. I don't know why.
Hmm, an idiotic and unjustified statement and doesn't know why he said it?
**closes video**
ArctheDark 2 months ago
@ArctheDark
I go into explicit detail. Hence, 1 of 6.
smudboy 2 months ago 2
if you dont know why then why you talking
M3RDOCK 2 months ago
would love to listen to your explanation, but seriously, I can't, I simply can't hear you clearly over the loud and annoying music in the background *sigh
JohnSavant 3 months ago
BIODRONES, BIODRONES EVERYWHERE.
JBE1993 3 months ago
Comment removed
ReginaldMaulding 3 months ago
I feel like this analysis is missing the point, well if you take the game as another opportunity to show your intellect by trying to find as many nuances that do not exactly fit then this is exactly what you should do. But for most people that is not the point of gaming, as long as the story feels somewhat good in the context of things and If I were to say, It does. no offence to you and your videos,you certainly put a lot of thought into it, but to me it rly seems kinda pointless, coz ME2 Izgud
AWTWorld 4 months ago
@AWTWorld
So I should analyze the game and not the plot?
smudboy 4 months ago
@smudboy
I feel like that would be way cooler, ya, coz it works as a whole in my opinion
AWTWorld 4 months ago
@AWTWorld
While I can see the narrative by definition incorporating every piece of media, the plot is quite something else, and has nothing to do with a lot of the game (music, some visuals, characters, game play, etc.)
smudboy 4 months ago 6
@smudboy
oki, lets stick to the whole plot theme, I would like to know if there is a video game story that you find rly rly good and submit it to your criteria of judgment. Could you do that?
AWTWorld 4 months ago 6
LOL biodrones defending obvious plot holes by esteemed bioware writers.
Hey Joker, did you know that I helped with cerberus' R&D with this skeletal reinforcement upgrade that I can use? Why don't you try it instead of walking around like a silly gimp like you did in the first game?
newagepun 5 months ago
Jesus Christ turn the music down.
uri876 5 months ago
Lazarus project is just a nice way to redesign normandy/let you make your character with better graphics/give you new crex members/have a polot hote to avoid boring parties and shit, no reason to hate about it
Facerooll 5 months ago
Decent analysis. I enjoyed the game, but the story was a bit lolworthy. Still, that's not unusual in games.
I have a complaint. Your speak too softly. Sometimes it sounds like a murmur. Speak stronger if you are going to do videos this long.
qvtkc 5 months ago
@smudboy really, who cares? Only a nerd with social problems cares about how possible is lazarus project or if the resason of cerberus bring shepard back was good enough. We, normal people, are more concerned what it represent, about how cool is the hero coming back from death to kick the villains ass.
LeandroBraz23 5 months ago
@LeandroBraz23
A person who's actually paying attention cares.
This isn't about how possible the Lazarus Project is. This is about proper storytelling, and the lack of it.
smudboy 5 months ago
@smudboy It's about you trying to call attention to yourself. ME is far from perfect. IT's base is a lot of science fiction reference put together and a deus ex machina here, another there. But damn, we love it and we don't really care! The effort to explain how things work in codex is enough, nobody reaaly want every single detail working in perfection. Considering the complexity of the game (three games connected, remember), it's amazing what they achieve so far...
LeandroBraz23 5 months ago
The perfection you want just don't exist in a game. by th way, in ME universe kinetic barriers are used to send probes to high pressures planets, so yes, Shepard's shield helped to preserve his body. No it's not the perfect answer but, hey again, who cares?
LeandroBraz23 5 months ago
@LeandroBraz23
Shall I repeat myself? The people who are paying attention care.
If I call foul, and I'm right, with evidence: you have no argument. If you don't care: shut up.
smudboy 5 months ago
@smudboy You should repeat yourself over and over again. By repetition maybe you start to make sense. Shep body was preserved by his shields, Lazarus project was something TIM was alread working on and decide to test in Shepard (as he did in ME: Retribution), He would be useful as a flag against the reapers (ME3) and was useful to help him aquire Reaper technology and stop the Collectors.. Live with that..
LeandroBraz23 5 months ago
@LeandroBraz23
Shep's body was preserved by his shields: where is this in the narrative? ANSWER: It's not. CONCLUSION: You're inventing stuff up.
And you're banned.
smudboy 5 months ago
@smudboy Difference between an invention and an inference.
Mayorfunk1 5 months ago
@Mayorfunk1
What LeandroBraz23 wrote was an invention.
smudboy 5 months ago
He is right... Ya not.
arathorn19 5 months ago
Is like you are trying too hard to spoil this game for you. But oh well, you might have enjoyed it or not, i think you did and VERY much : )
luisdeoz 5 months ago
You though THIS game was bad?
Oh boy...
Wait 'till they release Mass Effect 3.
I hope you're ready to make another 50 videos.
Also, just for shits and giggles, and to erase any glimmer of hope you still had of ME3 being good, google "Mass Effect came out almost eight years ago". Then proceed to play Dragon Age 2 while constantly reminding yourself Mac Walters hasn't been sacked yet and will be in charge of the "writing".
ignas1130 5 months ago
@ignas1130
Oh, Silverman...
smudboy 5 months ago
Shepard's death at the beginning was purely to allow new players to get into the trilogy, it could be even said that bioware did that because of the PS3 version which they knew wouldn't get ME1
0o0dead0o0 5 months ago
ME2 plot? What plot!. All you do is recuit and babysit your crews whiny needs. =/
Not to mention your worst enm are mercs who seem to have a insane amount of soldiers. Makes you wonder they havnt invaded a planet yet. Oh i know, they ran into super-cop Shepard!. xD
zhijn 5 months ago
I would actually like to point to something a bit more fitting than the Nixon tapes. The X-Men. The X-Men were meant to be covert protectors, and yet they have that X in a circle logo on everything in most of their incarnations.
Jonstern1983 5 months ago
1. I agree that the fact that they put it on everything is stupid, but remember Nixon recorded every conversation he had in the Oval Office, just because something's stupid doesn't mean it's implausible, or that the meaning behind the symbol would be known to anyone.
2. I always heard that line as him thinking that the project needs more funding, not his own pockets.
Jonstern1983 5 months ago
@Jonstern1983
1. US presidents and comic books have nothing to do with ME2. Although, I could be wrong...
2. Okay. We're done.
smudboy 5 months ago
@smudboy 1. I'm just giving an equivalency (seemingly stupid decisions that work in the world created)... although if you want to get technical comic books do have quite a bit to do with ME2. 1. Many of the locals and persons fit into tropes that were, if not started by, then popularized by comics (the hot scientist (Liara and Tali), the bad guy bar (Eternity), the wrench wench (Tali and arguably Kasumi), etc), not to mention the fact that there were several miniseries that give back-story.
Jonstern1983 5 months ago
@Jonstern1983 a dark and ancient evil rises... your quintessential party and band of misfits with personalities... In search for high adventure, thrills and your date with destiny against the unstoppable evil force... in a bioware game...
made some 10-12 odd years ago with cooperation from Interplay known as Baldur's Gate. And to go back even farther, 80's JRPG.
newagepun 5 months ago
I can't find the comment to which I am replying so here goes.
1. Numerous secret societies have logos, that doesn't mean that they are trying to not be secret. OR the logo could be one of these innocuousness things that no one outside of Cerberus should recognize.
2. He said the PROJECT needed more money, not him personally. He was surprised because he didn't think the project would be a success with the limited funds. I can't find anything where he whines about some girl ignoring him.
Jonstern1983 5 months ago
@Jonstern1983
1. That a secret society has a logo is already frightening; the fact Cerberus puts it on everything: walls, clothings, ships, etc. is plain stupid.
2. Wilson: "I don't know where the boss gets all his money...maybe it's better not to know. I just wish he'd kick a little more in my direction once in a while."
smudboy 5 months ago
What makes you think that 1. Cerberus would let that secret out, and 2. Wilson wasn't in it for the challenge (like Doctor House)?
Jonstern1983 5 months ago
@Jonstern1983
1. Becauuse the whole story involves Commander Shepard touring the galaxy in his Cerberus logo'd Normandy SR2 after they come back from the dead?
2. Speculation. All we know is money and Miranda's cold shoulder. Not a reason to kill and destroy everyone. Besides, we still don't have any knowledge that Wilson's the genius death-defying scientist, or he was jealous, or anything else. Seemed pretty surprised Shepard was alive and walking about.
smudboy 5 months ago
@smudboy 1. How many people recognize the Cerberus logo in the game (The Quarians, Jack, Anderson, Liara, and the VS) all of whom have had personal contact with Cerberus, so their logo is probably not common knowledge.
2. Yours is speculation as well. Granted we do know Miranda is a cold fish, but we don't know that he felt attracted to her, and we don't know how much money he was actually making. All we know is that Miranda blamed him for the sabotage.
Jonstern1983 5 months ago
@Jonstern1983
1. The fact they have a logo is the problem.
2. What? There are audio logs. That's called evidence, not speculation. You know, of Wilson wishing he had more money, and of Miranda not paying him attention. We take Miranda at face value as she kills him and off we go.
smudboy 5 months ago
How about 3. Wilson uncovered something about what Cerberus did that started to nag at his conscience or made him fear for his safety. 4. He was working for the Alliance or the council the whole time, and he finally got all the information he needed to take down Cerberus (information regarding base locations, numbers, tech, etc.). Also, there is the option to chew Miranda out for shooting this guy.
Jonstern1983 5 months ago
Shepard brings two things to the table that an army of mercs doesn't. 1. (S)He is an almost god-like hero in parts of the galaxy's eyes (most of it if you choose to save the council), which would give any group he leads a bigger moral boost than, a threesome with Mila Kunis and Scarlet Johanson. and 2. (S)He was the person who lead the fight against Sovereign. Meaning that if TIM's hunch is correct, (S)He would be the best person to lead the fight against the Collectors.
Jonstern1983 5 months ago
@Jonstern1983
-Not after they're a corpse.
-After after they're back, the only thing it gets them is discounts at stores.
-While it's logical to believe if earth's greatest soldier falls, so will lesser soldiers (and everyone else), the fact they already fell changes the game plan.
-Shepard didn't lead the fight against Sovereign
smudboy 5 months ago
@smudboy 1. If T. E. Laurence was somehow raised from the dead exactly as he was, don't you think that would give the army he's leading a bit of a moral boost. 2. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. 3. You're right, it makes it more crucial that they get the best and prepare. 4. So that wasn't Shepard telling Joker (who did score the killing blow against the ship) to save/ignore the Council. Or maybe it wasn't Shepard's ground team actually taking out Sovereign's brain.
Jonstern1983 5 months ago
The death and resurrection motif worked in American Gods, The story of Horus, Doctor Who (12 times at last count), Superman, X-Men (Too many times to count), Dragon Ball Z, and Yu Yu Hakusho. Just to name 7 works, where this has happened, also in all of those except for Yu Yu Hakusho their death is given a far less explained reason. Oh, I'm the goddess of rebirth. Huh, I was dead? weird. I'm a time lord. I wasn't really dead (cop out imo). The power of vagueness. I wish on balls.
Jonstern1983 5 months ago
Finally someone who tells the truth. I do not understand why Mass Effect 2 received too much praise in terms of storyline.
hell, too many plot holes, cliche space opera drama.. geez, i can name 50 games that has better storyline than ME 2.
planescapeshock 5 months ago
Nice interesting video, but the background music is too loud. You sometimes have a hard time hearing what Smudboy's saying.
Shinclone 5 months ago
Thanks for these videos. After seeing all the praise for this game, I'm glad that *someone* shares my distaste for how Bioware handled it as a sequel.
I mean, I don't agree with everything you say - for instance, I think the death and resurrection of Shepard is a good introduction - but the changes to the gameplay (especially the introduction of reloading), lack of SDTV support, plot holes, general story confusion, and restrictive dialogue choices make this game a failed sequel to a great game.
Diskonnection 5 months ago
There is obviously alternative motives to Cerberus' actions...since you are fighting them in ME3 and they are perhaps aligned with the Reapers (I mean they are a pro- Human group and at the end you kill a Reaper Larva who IS human) and Shepherd is meant to be an empty character because YOU are Shepherd. All the problems you've brought up are things that we aren't supposed to know yet. ME3 will answer the questions we are left with from ME2. I disliked the lack of RPG in ME2 but plot felt fine.
thehat222 5 months ago
@thehat222
If ME2 didn't answer the problems from ME1, why would ME3 answer those from ME2? Would they also answer the plot holes from ME1, as well?
smudboy 5 months ago 6
@smudboy I would figure ME3 would answer those problems.. Maybe since its supposed to branch everything together and offer closure
mamobster1500 5 months ago
Why are you whispering? Are you hiding or something? Fucking hell!
LeVaughnX 5 months ago
Why are you whispering, are you afraid to wake up somebody next room? It's annoying to hear someone 'sexytalking the microphone' complete with sound of your saliva sticking and unsticking inside your mouth
DesolateFields 5 months ago
Keep up the good work, Smuddy
LL6869 6 months ago
I thought Wilson worked for shadow broker
lightsnow123 6 months ago
@lightsnow123
You thought right.
TheAdonfraz 5 months ago
God Stop whistling every 5 seconds it's the most amateur audio I have ever heard.
MrJi99saw 6 months ago
Contiuing) ... What matters is you enjoy game and get entertainment out of the plot. There diffrent from movies. No matter how good the story is, gameplay must come first. Story second.
Themastercode1235 6 months ago
Comment removed
Themastercode1235 6 months ago
@Themastercode1235
The RPG decision making is not top notch. It's laughable compared to games like Alpha Protocol, The Witcher 2, Deus Ex, etc. There are only two choices: keep or sell legion, keep or destroy base. The side characters have nothing to do with the plot, and could all be DLC for all they're worth.
smudboy 6 months ago
@smudboy You have diffrent situations that you can outcome in a diffrent way. If somone dies, if someone escapes etc. Sure the actual main plot alterations a thin, but its not like ME1 you could endlessly change the plot. You pretty much decide if the rachni live, Kaiden or Ashley live, and if the council survive. Its the subplots that matter. And personally, I love every character in ME2 (cept Miranda, shes a bland eye candy bitch whos butt hurt about being a genetic superwomen.)
Themastercode1235 6 months ago
@Themastercode1235
Someone dying has nothing to do with the plot.
You could not endlessly change the plot in ME1.
The subplots do not matter to the plot.
smudboy 6 months ago
Comment removed
Themastercode1235 6 months ago
@smudboy I agree that the main plot wasnt excactly brilliant, even though Im a die hard fan. And I meant that you COULDNT endlessly change the plot in ME1, typo on my behalf.
Themastercode1235 6 months ago
when i was looking at this i saw a couple flaws in the first point where you will not exceed termenal volocity and on earth its only 120 mph so sadly no splat also there is not an earth like atmosphere no air and the planet is frozen. I agree with the other statements though but u would be able to salvage the body.
Shadow1994knight 6 months ago
@Shadow1994knight
1. The Normandy just came out of FTL
2. Joker was speeding up and going into evasive maneuvers.
3. Shepard was blown away by an explosion and hurlting toward a planet.
4. The pull of gravity from the planet would increase velocity.
5. Terminal velocity is not a set limit. It's just when velocity = 0.
smudboy 6 months ago
@smudboy Terminal Velocity isn't when velocity equals 0, it's when you no longer accelerate (from gravity's pull) due to air resistance. In space, there's no such thing as terminal velocity b/c you're in a vaccuum. However, once you enter any atmosphere, terminal velocity exists (although the value of it depends on numerous variables).
Reciever80 6 months ago
@Reciever80
My mistake, it's when acceleration is 0.
smudboy 6 months ago
I was actually expecting an intelligent critique a la Plinkett. you have shown that his style is clearly not for everyone. This critique is just filled with ridiculous arguments, stupid things to be pissed about and ignores much more interesting things to be concerned about.
I mean, for fucks sake.
LuisManuelLealDias 6 months ago
@LuisManuelLealDias
And one of my ridiculous arguments is...?
smudboy 6 months ago
Christ, some of these are justified, but smudboy, at least half are just really badly picked out, I'd go into detail but I'm sure everyone else can see it too.
TheJayLeHol 7 months ago
@TheJayLeHol
Such as?
smudboy 7 months ago
@smudboy
I agree with some of your points. But a big one you brought up was that the Illusive Man says "go" and Shepard does it without question, I always considered it to be more that the Shepard was more bound to his species rather than Cerberus, Cerberus were merely supplying him with the resources to stop the Collectors. The motive for Shepard's revival was that he represented humanity's use in the universe, besides, he already took down Saren and a reaper, he is clearly skilled.
No mo char
TheJayLeHol 7 months ago
@TheJayLeHol
So Cerberus is doing it for humanity, and you guess Shepard is doing it for humanity, and TIM picked Shepard because of his use to represent humanity in the universe. Ah huh.. I clearly "badly picked" out those on my part.
smudboy 7 months ago
@smudboy
I'm not going to re-write that, I did a poor as fuck job with it.
TheJayLeHol 7 months ago
@TheJayLeHol
Though there's nothing wrong with a protagonist charging ahead regardless of the conditions imposed, the lack of development of Cerberus -- which seems like the main ME goto plot device -- their particular conditions, agenda and history is just there. It may as well be anyone else (sans the resurrection/Shepard musings.) To say Shepard's more bound to a species (like their own) is only barely mentioned, and is only part of the premise.
smudboy 7 months ago
I believe they retcon the medic in the beginnings death but showing his file in shadow broker claiming he was working for them. Still slip-shotty though
130lukas 7 months ago
@130lukas That's not exactly a retcon, because it doesn't attempt to rewrite something that has been established in a previous work. More like a patch to fill a gap that the original narrative didn't cover.
DarthCannabis 6 months ago
You seem to hold Mass Effect in very high esteem, but enjoyable as it was, it was pretty much "Babylon 5 by the way of KotOR", with names changed. Hard to really screw stuff up when you're pretty much ripping things off in huge chunks and stuff holes with cliches.
What ME2 did right, for the contrived mess its story was - was that it was Mass Effect, rather than "Zazylon 6".
a0classcriminal 7 months ago
@a0classcriminal To me, at least, the parts that were similar (ripped-off?) to Babylon 5 were a bit more obvious in ME2. Compare the Shadows to the Collector General. They even look the same right down to the multiple glowing eyes! At least the plot was different in ME1 with elder machine gods. In ME2 it's straight up stop the Shad..err Collectors without the build-up that Babylon 5 had.
DesertThunderStorm 6 months ago
Honestly having watched almost all of your videos over the last year, I have to appreciate your dedication to making a rational, supported analysis. While I don't agree with you on everything, I highly enjoy your work.
FeydTheRonin 7 months ago
Love it. i wish i had your skill so i could do the same for Fallout 3.
heiamll 7 months ago
I love Mass Effect 2. I know it basically have zero story and a bunch of weird/unnecessary moments (or "retcons") but i still have a blast playing it everytime. The first game had a great, deep story but the gameplay weren't that fun and the graphics were kind of buggy... I hope they do a compromise with ME3 - Make an epic deep story like the first game but make it as fun as ME2! You CAN have the cake and eat it too you know :D
WelcomeGhostsIV 7 months ago 4
@WelcomeGhostsIV
Amen, brother.
smudboy 7 months ago
@WelcomeGhostsIV Mind explaining what exactly was deep about Mass Effect 1's plot and writing?
uninterestingentity 6 months ago
@smudboy considering that most of your ME2 videos seem to average around 3,000 views, and the few that have gone beyond that plateau have taken more than a year to gain less than 20,000 views, I'm not exactly sure what you think constitutes support for your opinion??? In the opinion of myself and around 90%-96% of gamers and gaming biz pros, this game is superb. And that's a FACT!
bebomac5 8 months ago
@bebomac5
Oh, so opinion is fact? I had no idea.
If those who watch my videos, let's say, 3k, like them, well. There's your answer.
smudboy 8 months ago
@smudboy Are you angered by the incredible and unrelenting critical and commercial success ME2 has received? I mean let's face it, like it or not, ME2 is hailed as one of the great games of this or any generation.
bebomac5 8 months ago
@bebomac5
Only when the awards have "story" in their title.
smudboy 8 months ago
@Smudboy Wow I really hope your doing all these ME2 videos for educational purposes, otherwise, your apparent extreme hatred of the game comes across as kinda weird, and a little creepy. I've noticed that there is nearly zero concensus for your pov, and personally I think ME2's plot and story help push game narratives to a level previously unrealized.
bebomac5 8 months ago
@bebomac5
0 consensus, despite people actually liking my videos, and subscribing, and agreeing with some of my views?
ME2's plot pushes "game narratives" into the garbage. 'Cause I won't let fear compromise who I am.
smudboy 8 months ago
I notice BioWare has a problem with sequels:
-NeverWinter Nights 2
-KotOR 2
-Dragon Age 2
-(If you agree with smudboy) Mass Effect 2.
Probably the only good sequel they've made is Baldur's Gate 2.
I disagree wit you, smudboy. The plot in Mass Effect 2, whilst having more holes than a piece of cheese, wasn't really centred around the MAIN plot. Were it got good was in the loyalty missions, which were mostly interesting and deep. Mordin's especially. But the main plot IS (Mostly) goddamn stupid.
masterplusmargarita 8 months ago
@masterplusmargarita NWN 2 and KotOR 2 are both by Obsidian, the folks who made Fallout: NV.
mixmastermind 8 months ago
@mixmastermind
I know, but since they're sequels to BioWare videogames, and NV was a "sequel" to a Bethesda game, it's easy to notice: The sequels that they've made to BioWare games sucked. I think this is kinda a problem with BioWare: They always tend to leave things wrapped up, so there's no room for a sequel. Of course, with Mass Effect having been planned to be a trilogy they had no excuse, but the other cases do suffer from this.
masterplusmargarita 8 months ago