It’s interesting, for as much as you are trying to discredit God, you are actually lifting Him high. I was studying Job and by chance found your post and your video you answered a question for me and it was Surrender. That’s one of the biggest challenges for people when it comes to God. Being a follower of Christ means you have to surrender everything and submit to God's authority. Although extremely harsh it really is a testament about true surrender what it looks like. Praise God!
@dorriginal1 If there were in fact such a monster, I agree there would be no choice. The notion of morality would be completely destroyed by such... I am happy that it is only a myth....
Part 2 God in fact defends Job at the end of the book, in chapter 42, so your statement that God as judge condemns the innocent is invalid. Also in chapter 42 God does restore job's estate (in fact increases it). So again as in part one you have failed to prove your case.
You quote Job as saying "I am innocent but God declares me guilty", and assert that this is the truth of it. You are in error. Job says that but that is not the fact. You assume that Job is correct but that is not logiically neccesarily the case. Job's statement may or may not be true. God says that Job is too weak to understand His purpose and is accusing someone, God, who is beyond Job's understanding.
No shit , This "God" is very Stupid to let Satan Trick him ! Does anyone here think that God is Really that Stupid ?! This Book is Obiously a LIE ! The Ultimate Bible is within YOU and it's called REASON . God is so Powerfull that no Devil can even come close to him without being Burnt to a Crisp ! His very Light would Disintigrate them like Vampires by the light of the Sun ! This whole Fucken Book is one Big Lie ! Rip out of your bible like I did !
I read the bok of Job and after all the tragedy God blessed Job with more than he lost ,including healing his body because he was faithful to God and never cursed God through his tribulations.Also in the begining of Job God allowed Satan to do those things because God knew Job would be faithful.Test of Faith
@lavonicole1 "God blessed Job with more than he lost"
So if you had, e.g., 3 children who were killed in a horrible accident and some time later 6 people came along claiming to be a "blessing" to replace your dead children, you would view your children as having been replaced?
@ProfMTH I believe that God restored everything two fold, but NOT his children. They were not replaced two fold; however, how does one justify the killing of the children in the first place?
Sanaticua Vaticanus, Byzatine or you good old texus receptus.. I am even starting to doubt ProfMTH as an atheist, as he seems to focus very much on Catholic exogesis. Which is not surprising from his background. He may be a nialist! Or at the very best short sighted, I would doubt many evangelicals today would call a Catholic a Christian so im not surpised he has fallen into the old "It's all Christianity.
@Amarx00 The book of Job - have you read it? Look up Job 42:13 and come back. The new kids were supposedly better than the old kids - was Job simply supposed to forget the children God killed?
Evangelicals probably wouldn't say Catholics are Christians. I'd say the same about evangelicals - they're not Christians either. They're Paulists.
..trap! From that I doubt he did much independant study while in semenary.. And just let them spoon feed him thier Babilonian rubbish.
The point is try and apply this video to a Texus Receptus reading, and you will find you cant! Now consider that 99% of the archiological evidence actually supports the texus receptus reading!
If you can figure out why that is.. Then you will know what a true Christian is.
I think it's time you read a real Bible KJV (so you can have an informed opinion).
Start at the end with revelations, and see how it describes real Christians & pretend Christians.. As well as everything else that is going on around us now!
@lavonicole1 if you dont already have children, then dont do so, you will end up as being a horrible parent if you are willing to accept replacement for your children.
@MrNeodarwinian Because Satan and God's angels didn't know. Soon, after, The Book about Job was made for us to see how Job was loyal to God no matter what. Life must go on and it did after Job refuse to curse the Lord. Now you and I are born on this earth along with many others to have a chance to look at the TRUE STORY. OF jOB wich really happened.
@MCAmbitious Yow did not answer the question. " True story of Job that really happened " is an unsupported assertion. No better than this? So, do not waste my tome with another " response.
@MrNeodarwinian Your question is stupid in the first place and you seem to not understand that the book of job had to happen if people believe in God. Your mentality is way different from what people believe. I did answere your question. The Book of Job was written so we can look at it because some more things are about to happen like the Mark of te Beast aka the chip. That is on youtube so look it up
What is the point of these stupid videos? People die all of the time and all of you who are agaisnt God will die as well. Job already lost and is dead. Now some people act like Job is still alive. God is the ruler and people will die so it does not matter if you believe in God or not. Yet since we feel that God is a real person, it is best to leave it alone and be with God since he is the ruler and the number onesource of power. The Lord rules dood.
@ProfMTH We will both die and is close to death wich is a reality. We may die of old age or we may die another way. Now your video is targeting God but don't forget that the Bible is about our lives. It is about the past to the present. Now it makes no sense to make a video like this since us dying and violence in itself should be enough to turn from God. Your mental is different. You never believe in God in the first place and only go by the book. Yet you are right though, God doesn't love all.
@ProfMTH Good vid man.Ya know what I think?! I think the bible is MEANT TO BE an instruction manual for life.I think "God" was supposed to represent some sort of greatly powerful ruler or something.Think about it.The Bible pretty much covers EVERY bad situation you can come across in life.Noah teaches you about preparedness.Jesus & Judas teach you about betrayal.The Babylon prophecy warns what happens when a nation becomes rich,proud & sinful (Wake up America)....
@ProfMTH So if you look at the story of Job for what it is instead of with the "God is love" goggles,it's a great story.Its a story about blind loyalty,betrayal,the corruptability of "good" people (God in this case),the power of ego,disappointment,injustice,etc.There's alot to learn from the bible.Ya just gotta read it with the right perspective,without trying to reaffirm your beliefs.Just read it and learn from it.
The christian god acts like a cowardly little boy with way too much power. He can't answer a mortals simple question (who art thou o man, to question god?!) and yet, he can torment, ridicule or smite people in place of the answer that if not a coward he could respond like a man. i'm reminded of the star trek movie where kirk encounters "god" and asks him a question and gets a lightning bolt for an answer. what does god need with a starship?
You know I really don't think the christians really just sit down and READ the book of job. they talk about it, but they dont seem to have an understanding of what goes in on the story. so its like they have some vague notion of who job was and his dealings with god.
@shitthrowingmonkey1 ...lmaoo...the irony of all this is...JOB condemned people like you.....JOB remained faithful and drove away people like you from him....SO EXPLAIN THAT.
JOB 42 v 12: So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job MORE than his beginning :-)))))
JOB 42 v 16 17:After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations. So Job died, being old and full of days. :-PPPP
@Drebln893 God agreed with job that he was correct. Read the whole book. The others were commanded to make sacrifices to god for job, so that god would accept them. Job was in the right in questioning god and saying that he didn't sin, because he did nothing wrong.
@Drebln893 God wins, yet Job's wife, children, employees, and animals all lose. Hell of a price for Job to pay for God to turn to Satan and say "Told you so." Where is the glory for the dead? Did they arrive in Heaven and say "Good idea O' Lord! Thank you for setting Satan on us to prove a point! Shall we get on our knees and praise you for all eternity for your mercy and compassion now?"
@Drebln893 I think the question is are you mad? Would you honestly be fine with your wife and kids murdered on a bet? Would you honestly think that getting a hotter wife and a two-for-one for each child would in any way make up for the initial murders? I tell you that a whole slew of people died in this story and all I get is a ":-)))))". Where is your empathy? Where is your humanity?
Hah. A lesson on morality and ontological principles from a moral relativist. The uploader may as well play the role of chimpanzee lecturing in astrophysics.
@Agrippa521 Talk about the verses. You aren't addressing any single point that Prof has brought up in this video series. What do you make of verses like 2:3 or 9:20? Have you actually read the book of Job?
God speaks and takes action in the book of Job. Through this depiction of his words and deeds we get a glimpse of his character. It's not a flattering portrayal, either. He can be tempted by Satan? He lashes out at Job sarcastically after letting him be tortured and ruined? WTF?
@Agrippa521 ...looool...That is always the case when you hear them pick up the book of Job and notice how THEY never read the outcome of Job's life....TOO MUCH GLORY for them so they skip it.
@Agrippa521 Because the absolute morality of a being that will torture and ruin who he admits is a blameless and righteous man, FOR NO REASON, is so much more superior. Maybe your god and his twisted morals do exist, but if so, your god is an ass.
Just hear yourself talking, you are giving answers that makes sense for the world, when would the intelligent guys like you understand that God's kingdom isn't this world but the next, why are you so concerned about suffering, how do you explain your problems when u have them? Do they have a purpose? There are many things that you can't understand, because God gives sight to the blind, not to those who can see like u, because hearing they can't hear and seeing they can't see!
It sounds like job was well on his way to "cursing" gods name till god came and basically said "umm excuse me? did you make the world? no? didn't think so"
It seems to me god suffers from bipolar disorder. Therefore he should step down his positions and allow someone more capable to handle his holy matters. xD
I've always thought that if the writers of the Bible were trying to make this book out to be the moral compass for later generations they failed, TERRIBLY. It amazes me how Christians and "Christ followers"(wouldn't want to get the terminology wrong lol) defend this book with all of their might and I was surprised to find out, after debates with a few of them, that most haven't read the Bible in its entirety. If there was a Book that spelled out how I ought to live my life I'd want to read it.
To be fair PROF, was not the reason god took up the challenge to actually see what Job would do when all his earthly blessings were taken away, (for no reason)?
@rovingdesertfox "To be fair PROF, was not the reason god took up the challenge to actually see what Job would do when all his earthly blessings were taken away, (for no reason)?"
Not according to the text. The text says there was no reason. Certainly you don't think it unfair to go with what the text says, do you?
@ProfMTH 9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.” 12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”
@ProfMTH The text I provided seems to be saying that Satan challenges God to see what Job would do if all of his possessions were taken away. Would Job then still love God? To me this would be your reason. Not sure how you say the text says there is no reason.
@rovingdesertfox If you know that food is poisoned, but your friend doesn't believe you. Would you allow your friend to given the food that you know is poisoned to your parents or whoever you care about? You know the outcome just as god as depicted knew the outcome. What is the point of allowing such horrors?
@MyContext I learned something since I commented. I believe the god depicted in the bible has been a fictional fabrication invented by those in power to control the masses. I'm reading a free ebook entitled, "The extortion of the ruling elite". It's on a pdf file which can be easily found on line. Whenever you see "The LORD God" in the bible, it is a fictitious character invented as a counterfeit. Very enlightening reading.
@ProfMTH Now I see you are saying Job provided no reason for what happened to him and I agree wholeheartedly. When I saw that Satan had issued a challenge, I took that as a reason why Job was messed with.
@rovingdesertfox " Now I see you are saying Job provided no reason for what happened to him...."
No, that's not what I'm saying (although the story does have Job figuring out that there was no reason for what had happened to him). God quite clearly says there was no reason for him to allow what happened to Job (Job 2:3).
@ProfMTH This is beginning to feel like pulling gum out of my hair.
The comment I made beginning: "The text I provided..." seems to be unanswered at this stage.
Let me try again: Job provided no reason. God had no reason. Then Satan approaches God and challenges him, wondering if Job's possessions were take away whether Job would still love God.
This is the reason the story continues. God allows Satan to determine whether Job loves God because of his wealthy condition.
@ProfMTH "My people are destroyed because of lack of knowledge..." Try to know God more. You're just basing everything to your own understanding. For the bible said "Trust in the Lord will all your heart and lean NOT on your OWN UNDERSTANDING!"
@jowieduya I don't even think god understands what the fuck is happening in our world. Because he obviously isn't omniscient because if he was he would make a world in which there is peace with free will.
WOW !! Job 40: 10-14 proves that what "god" admires and respects is only power and would have loved and respected Adolph Hitler !! That is not a god I would ever obey or respect !! No, Instead I would spit on the face of a god like that even with my dying breath !! fuck that monster !! I truly Suspect that was some Low-life Extraterrestrial playing god with Job and Not the God of Jesus, Not the real God .
@iamthatiam1962 um.. r u sure u read what i said. im not defending those who tampered with the bible but saying this guy in the video is adding to the bible b/c he leaves out important info and adds crap. i am a christian and beleive Jesus Christ died on the cross for me and you
I never understood this story, however i don't the almighty; but I do question "Man"! They have tampered with this for centuries! Question though, why? Research the the people that changed it. I know my father is just, but man is wicked. They make the almighty seem like a lier. Look at exodus 3:14-15 He clearly gives his name and saids it's his name forever and his memorial for all generations. But in exodus 6:3 he gives a different name. mmmmmmmm!
um..lets see someone said christians should read the book that leads us but the person pointing the finger and is "suppose" to be a professor? clearly has not read it himself without adding to the bible which God clearly says not to do.in Ch1 it says that some angles came to God and satan came with them,God ask where have you come from and he tells him and God asks have you considered my servant Job?So God was simpley testing Job's faith.You should really just simply read it and not complicateit
@JRR31984 US! WHO'S US? MAN JUST TAMPERED WITH BIBLE AND LIED ON GOD! IT'S SATAN BEHIND THIS SCHEME OF THINGS. WHY U GUYS GET THOSE MISSING BOOKS THAT WAS DELIBERATELY LEFT OUT AND ASK WHY. EITHER SOME OF YOU ALREADY NOW THE TRUTH OR YOU DON'T HAVE THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH ON YOU! THE BIBLE IS ABOUT PEOPLES LIVES AND SALVATION, THE DOESN'T DECEIVE U.
@IAMTHATIAM1962 idk.. im not really sure devils or a devil exsists.. i think what ghandi said was more realistic that the only evil that exsists is the evil in our hearts and thats where it should be fought..
and yea they did choose to use the most "legit seeming" gospels to be in the bible but we have access to read more that arent in it on the internet like the gospel of thomas.. i like a lot of those verses because thomas was really skeptical sounding and jesus says some interesting things
I don't think it is about power. It is about wisdom. Sure God is powerful. But the conclusion of the story recommends wisdom rather than power as the point of the story. Does Job a howl against injustice? Yes. But that is because of Job's limited perspective. That is what God shows Job at the end.
Does God declare Job guilty though he is blameless. No. That is to play the game Job's friends play.
Is it a matter of Job's powerlessness? No. It is a matter of Job's limited wisdom.
@ProfMTH Job 28:28 is the key verse of the book. "The fear of the Lord is wisdom." (Fear means great reverence.) Those are Job's words. And Job does fear the Lord. Yet his wisdom is not complete. In God's reply to Job. God declares Job without wisdom - biynah (38:4). Then in 38:37 God challenges Job in regard to his lack of wisdom - chokmah. Only at the end when Job bows before God's far great wisdom does Job demonstrate complete wisdom.
Okay... Fear and great reverence are not exactly the same.
For instance. I am very afraid of heights, ofcourse due to that, I have a healthy respect for cliffsides and ladders and such. But that is just fear talking, and it lending me the wisdom to stay the heck away from it.
Great reverence is something that follows through love.
Job fears God for what god can do to him. He doesnot want to suffer anymore then he already has.
@surshot56 The interpretation of Job as a poetic treatise on wisdom is neither new nor unique. A quick check on google will take you to a number of sites that discuss Job as wisdom literature. In fact, it seems to me ProfMTH has chosen a rare interpretation to refute and has proposed an equally rare interpretation of his own. So a quick check on on google will answer the question, "where . . . did you see that in the book?"
The message in the Book of Job is simple: we don't know why suffering happens. And, more importantly, we don't need to know. Whatever happens happens. Deal with it, appropriately. What else can you do?
This is interesting, though I would say there is a difference between 'inciting' and 'deceiving'. Deceiving suggests using some type of 'falseness' or false pretence/trick, whereas incite suggests arousing or goading someone into doing something. The word 'incite' and 'arouse' were the same in ancient greek and suggest heightening emotion and/or response. No deception necessarily needed.
@ProfMTH You're right. I thought you said 'deceived' but in fact you said God was 'tempted'. I still think there is a slight difference between 'tempted' and 'incited', though I agree it is strange as in the story of Jesus, the Devil clearly tries to get him to use his power (jump from a cliff and let 'the angels save you') and Jesus refuses to be part of the 'incitement'.
There is an interesting and vicious concept that comes up with Christians when studying Job. It is that, given the fact that God rants and bullies on Job, the actual person going through the suffering, for just asking and expecting justice- it is hinted that one, who is a mere spectator of the events, can't even question nor think that we can get an answer for our problems as well. Kind of a double barrel watch n shut up lesson
@DNGR411 Thanks. Yes, it's interesting how many believers who read this really take Job to task for asking the very simple question, "What happened here?"
@ProfMTH This is absolutely thought provoking. In my opinion, everything you need to know about God's personality and capricious use of his power, is well known in the book of Job. Great job. Its kind of hard for a Christian to use the, "oh your taking it out of context." card.
@surshot56 Thanks a lot. I'm glad you found it thought-provoking and interesting. And despite the difficulty of playing the "context" card, you won't be surprised to learn how many Christian respondents to this series have done precisely that. ;-)
God did not give Himself dominion on this planet. He gave it to us, therefore we have to look at the purpose and plan for creating this planet and how we and He operate on earth. Your analogy of Job fails when you understand this. See Kingdom Petitions & Prayer Protocols ~ 5 of 20 ~ Dr. Myles Munroe. If you are seekers of truth then this video of Munroes or the 6th for that matter proves your lack of understanding of man and God's role and both our authority.
Dude, ProfMTH, you don't get the story. Sorry, you don't. Nor do theists. If you read it literally, you miss the point. Ifs a fairy tale.
The dudes who wrote it were expressing that which makes us cope with a harsh reality that we don't deserve. "God" is that which sustains our spirit, when we are faced with unjustified shit, which occasionally hits the fan. But we can only cope with reality, if we stop the useless "why me" and accept our lot. Its about finding peace in an imperfect world
Dude, I understand that you think its a fairy tale. I get that you are an unbeliever. So am I. Sorry, I don't know what your motives are - I can't. My point isn't that its a fairy tale, but that it DOES contain a truth. That this story is ABOUT something real. Its a good story.
If you get it, Instead of telling people that it is literally absurd or amoral, why not explain to them what it is really about? Wouldn't that be a more productive use of your eloquence?
OK, so basically, you are saying that the traditional Christian approach is to take it literally. In that case, I guess I was expressing a wish that you'd tell them what the story is actually about, or how you read it. Otherwise its no carrot, just stick. Also, its rather obvious that the literal reading strips it of its meaning. A waste of analysis.
My points are probably in vain anyway - you do your thing anyway, and it isn't like we disagree on the subject. So, take care, dude!
@vdizhoor The approach that I have experienced has been an emphasis on faith to the EXCLUSION of everything else in the story. I remember thinking why would a loving anything allow this? This is doesn't make any sense.
@MyContext I think God plays a very small and is obviously fictional - his bet with Satan is just a gimmick to get things going, like in any mythology. The interesting bit is the discussion with Job after his faith in God is lost. That's the bulk of the story. Like Proverbs or Ecclesiastes - the authors were inspired to expressed what they learned in life through myth. Like any fairy tale, taking it literally strips the meaning away. Its about finding solace when nothing else is left.
@vdizhoor You started your series by saying in 1981 you were considering the clergy if im correct? Also that it was the book of Job that "lead" you into atheism (Paraphrasing)? May I ask, what faith did you belong to, and who taught you the hermanutic, and exegisis translations of the old testament?
I think you meant to write to ProfMTH, who is the author of these videos. I was merely commenting. I was never a believer, although I was curious about Christianity when I was 9-12, although at the time my attitude toward it was somewhere between an earlier belief in Santa Claus (i.e. somewhat real) and a fairy tale (total fiction).
@1AndrewTheWolf Well, both Satan and God act like total pricks in this one, so neither is really an authority. I think the point is that shit hits (or can hit) the fan regardless of what you do. And when it does, the less you ask silly questions (like, why me?!?!?) and the sooner you realize you are not that important in the grand scheme of things, the better off you will be.
I love the book of Job. I know that God does not lie I had to keep reading the bible as a whole to get understanding. So years later I SEE. The word of G states and is proven in Job that satan goes about to and fro LIKE a roaring lion seeing whom he may devour. Job opened the door with Job 3:25. To walk with God He better be who you greatly fear or consider. As Jesus told Peter Satan will have the right to ask for you - see LK 22:31. Think kingdom to understand kingdom. there's more to this -
@jwiderstra I am not sure what U mean, but again line upon line.... 2 understand God's word U have to see the whole picture- at least have the KEY to the picture. Without knowing Him - not surfacely. This video here is only-accurrate in view of limiting yourself 2 - Chapters 1 & 2. I have read it & I No what God has stated about fear which is Y I referred those who are searching for the Truth to chapter 3:25. Thinking Kingdom.....
@2glori I can take a picture of your feet and say I took your picture and still don't know who I took a picture of. In the scoop of Job chapter 1 & 2 This guy is using limited understanding or better fleshly reasoning - taking only a picture of the feet. God allowed Abrah(am) 2 reason with him b4 destroying sodom & G-. What Jesus went thur SEEMS evil, but it delivered me. Job is no Jesus, but OF HIS TIME there was none like him. God word builds upon itself - this is the context I seek - truth
@2glori in ch3, Job is cursing the day he was born. In death, he would have been safe from life, in the company of kings and princes and riches. maybe i misunderstood what your comment "Job opened the door with 3:25" was referring to, but as i read your post, and read the christian scriptures, chapter 3 comes after ch1 and 2, meaning he cursed his birth AFTER being the subject of a bet between two entities trying to prove something. The whole picture (imho) shows not a good god.
@jwiderstra I saw it that way 2. Until I began 2 talk, meditate in his word & get to know Him thur scripture. It was easy 4 me to see God as a tyrant Until I saw that if He is telling the truth as He states then the enemy would again be doing the very same thing as he did in the garden-deceiving the one that God gave this Kingdom (earth) to. If you come to the book of Job with no understanding of our part in why satan can dare come before God to ask for us then you place the blame on big bad God
@jwiderstra But if you come to Job knowing that mankind gave his kingship over this planet to God's enemy; allowing satan dominion over them i.e. satan's kingdom Then your questions are different cause U understand whose u are. Job was faithful above most of his time but he had a Great fear and if U ever read the bible God does not function in fear only Faith - Job's one imperfection which Satan operates in our fears. Fear God which i.e., honor/respect. Job had to deal with his fear (satan).
The word you conveniently leave only as BLAMELESS is misguiding in that form. The rest of the Bible is clear that all men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The word BLAMELESS or PERFECT means "complete, morally innocent, having integrity" or "one who is morally and ethically pure". It means that he knows what the Lord wants from him. Knows what good is in the eyes of the Lord. Being a man though that he of course would on occasion fail to obey God.
brilliant videos, I was raised catholic in a very moderate household so I didn't know most of this stuff. I gave it up when I was eighteen and I'm very glad I did that.
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
"And Job, how earnestly does he expostulate with God, for the many afflictions he suffered, notwithstanding his righteousness?
This question, in the case of Job, is decided by God himself, not by arguments derived from Job's sin, but from his own power." Hobbes, Leviathan xxxi 6
ok then what? so mistakenly fuck you because i was tempted, so for you to know that im powerful becuase im god, so i do as i plz, now i feel like you should have the double of your stuff!! for no reason!, im confuse lol, job´s friends said it must be something you´ve done and job should no question god, then god saids, this friends of yours defending me are so fukin wrong go and apologize, job should question me THIS IS A WTF BOOK!! im stupid explain it to me plz
I hope you know that you are only insulting God because the story is about God showing to satan that he lives in jobs heart. God tests your faith and after all he has gaven us I believe that we should give something back.. Even if its so little....
@josetorr06 "I hope you know that you are only insulting God because the story is about God showing to satan that he lives in jobs heart."
Really? Where does the text say anything about that?
BTW, why would God waste his time trying to show Satan anything? Doesn't he know that Satan never learns his lesson? I think *you* are the one insulting your god by portraying him as an idtiot who wastes his time trying to prove something to Satan by destroying one of his most faithful servants.
Well you are good at confusing people and playing with their ming the fact is that, My God is the samae one who created you so God Bless you and only the fragile will fall.
@ProfMTH Well they are many question that dont have an answeer and your live will keep on going even if i make a thousend comments to your video and telling you what is my opinion so i will not waste my time but i will surly prey for your soul and keep on going the way i am... life is full of horrible things. Many are caused by us so i will continue to look for my answers in the Bible and the fact is the you are explaning the story the way u understand it and i think differently.
@josetorr06 "Well they are many question that dont have an answeer...."
So the questions I asked you that you haven't answered do not have answers, is that correct? E.g., there is no answer to the question about where the text says anything about God showing to satan that he lives in jobs heart? Or do you merely mean that you're just making stuff up and, therefore, you'd rather not answer the question? I'm guessing it's that you'd rather not answer because you know you have no answer.
so you think you,ve got it figure out? First of all, GOD did not lie on job or did not need to lie on job to allow him to go through what he went through. For all have sin and come short of the glory of GOD. For in sin did my mother conceived me. The notion that GOD would lie is seriously misguarded and for someone who studied theology, you really lake wisdom and understanding of the book of Job and of GOD. But, if you want understanding and wisdom, ask GOD and HE will give you.
@ProfMTH you are still missing the point and still lacking wisdom. If you won't pray for wisdom and understanding, I will pray for you that GOD will give you what you really need. GOD bless you
@josetorr06 and i was not trying to change ur mind i was just giving u my opinion. Opinion based on my interpretation of the book of job. i have listen to your video because i believe that i could learn something from it and i did.. thank you.
@josetorr06 Tell you the truth, God did not make man after adam and Eve. He gave them and many of us the ability to generate through sexual intercourse. In the book of geneses, God told man and other creatures to multiply and be fruitful. If he made us, he would said somethng else.
It appears that Job is trying to figure out what happened to him, is he trying to use his finite mind to understand God's, or being self-centered a some suggested? As you say, God made his point and did it his way until there was no other recourse or thing for Job to say or do but to surrender and throw in the towel.
i think you have an honest assesment of this book. I am a Christian, but have never went along with typical presentations of the meaning of this story...i have been through some horrible, tragic things in the last year and resent anyone using this book as a source of hope. The only positive message i get from it is that perhaps God rewarded Job in the end for maintaining an honest sincere appraisal of his situation...instead of the typical "religious" stand that his friends had...that, i can buy
God never answers Job's questions about justice because it is a non-sequitur; whatever befalls people may not have anything to do with their righteousness at all (i.e. it is without reason). This is because we as the creation and not the Creator are not "owed" anything. The fact that we have *anything at all*, even if it is just our very next breath, can only be considered a loving gift from God.
@ProfMTH Justice is not to be found in this world, yes, but that's not to say justice is not to be found ever. So we do good without any expectation of reward but also know that bad things don't happen because we did something wrong. It also isn't about power as it is about who God is as the principle cause and end of all things. If we were talking about Q from Star Trek doing these things it would be a very different scenario. By all rights everything belongs to God and Job is "owed" nothing.
I am a Christian, but unlike most I don't think your interpretation is all that far off. The purpose of the Book of Job is to dispense with the notion represented by Job's friends: that people who are just are successful and people who are wicked suffer. You see this view even today in such things as the "Prosperity Gospel." But even in each of our personal experience we know this isn't the case, so we identify with Job's dilemma. (cont.)
You completely misunderstood the book of Job. God was first of all: Proving to satan that Job would not curse him even if he was living in squalor. Secondly: God was humbling Job, because Job had become puffed up with pride; and as any christian that has read the Bible would know: God hates pride, and vanity!
@ProfMTH God said job was blameless, yes! But Job WAS proud, he was telling God that he was not doing his job right! So that's why God came down in a whirlwind to assert to Job his authority over mankind. That it wasn't Job's place to question the ways of God. And as Job was questioning the ways of God, Satan was also questioning God's Judgement, and that is why God was proving that to Satan! And btw, when reading any text, you can't just take it literally, you have to read between the lines.
I say you have a poor understand of life and the world. You are 47 and yet seem to lack the respect God deserves. I don't claim to know God. or what he is or anything because I can never understand. I not that pig headed. But I believe good and evil is something real. We have a choice. With God, I don't think he needs to worry about good and evil or ever works on a relm we as humans can ever touch. Jesus was the new law. Listen to Jesus.
Who are we to proclaim that we are blameless? Romans 3:10 "There is none righteous, no not one." To portray God as a monster or a liar is blasphemy! It rains on the just and the unjust to bring to completion God's plan. A plan that was in motion long before the creation of man. Sounds like you need to read the entire book of Job again yourself to get the true meaning. No matter how blameless we think we are, God will be the final judge and power determining our eternal home.
@cashdomino "Who are we to proclaim that we are blameless?"
If you've ever read the Book of Job or even just watched this video series, you would know that the text first has God proclaiming the Job is blameless (Job 1:8, 2:3). Why don't you believe your Bible?
"There is none righteous, no not one."
You should watch the following video: /watch?v=_0wYL5-VqBU
"To portray God as a monster or a liar is blasphemy!"
I didn't write the Book of Job; I'm just talking about what it says.
@ProfMTH You evidently don't understand what you are reading. The Book of Job portrays God in His Truth. That God is all powerful and all loving. If God decides to test you or me, then who are we to stop it, no matter how blameless we think we are. Job thought his righteousness was blameless. However, if you read the entire book, you will find that he, in fact, was not. This book gives us the overall picture of the trials and troubles we face as humans.
@cashdomino "You evidently don't understand what you are reading."
I understand it fine. You're the one attributing things to it that aren't in text, not I.
"That God is all powerful and all loving."
The book never says a word about God being loving at all. Just powerful. You're imposing things on the text that don't appear in it in order to make it more palatable to your belief set.
"no matter how blameless we think we are"
God said Job was blameless. Have you read the book?
(con't) @cashdomino "Job thought his righteousness was blameless."
GOD SAID IT WAS. Read the book. Job 1:8, 2:3.
"if you read the entire book, you will find that he, in fact, was not."
So God was lying in Job 1:8 and 2:3 when HE said Job was blameless? The text narration is lying when it says Job was blamess (Job 1:1)? Please answer those two questions and then cite the passages(s) that say(s) Job was *not* blameless. Thanks.
@ProfMTH Chapter 40:2 "Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty?"
Chapter 40:4 "Behold, I am of small account; what shall I answer you?"
If God is calling Job a faultfinder, then he apparently is to blame for something. Job only thinks he is blameless, that's why God called him blameless to Satan. God allows Satan to strip Job of everything to humble him; so that God can show him he is not perfect.
@cashdomino So, then, God *was* lying when he said Job was blameless in Job 1:8 and Job 2:3, correct? And the text narration is wrong when it says Job is blameless in Job 1:1, correct?
This "god" is one Arrogant and Evil SOB !! he can Kiss my Ass ! That is NOT the Cosmic God that I believe in ! Fuck the Bible !
nicktesla45 1 week ago
its funny how all of the posts on this vid declare Prof is wrong and they have the truth yet no two of these declarations are alike
funny funny funny
Fenyxfire 1 month ago
It’s interesting, for as much as you are trying to discredit God, you are actually lifting Him high. I was studying Job and by chance found your post and your video you answered a question for me and it was Surrender. That’s one of the biggest challenges for people when it comes to God. Being a follower of Christ means you have to surrender everything and submit to God's authority. Although extremely harsh it really is a testament about true surrender what it looks like. Praise God!
dorriginal1 2 months ago
@dorriginal1 that's mentally ill
you really need help
Fenyxfire 1 month ago
@dorriginal1 If there were in fact such a monster, I agree there would be no choice. The notion of morality would be completely destroyed by such... I am happy that it is only a myth....
MyContext 1 month ago
Part 2 God in fact defends Job at the end of the book, in chapter 42, so your statement that God as judge condemns the innocent is invalid. Also in chapter 42 God does restore job's estate (in fact increases it). So again as in part one you have failed to prove your case.
mike25496 2 months ago
You quote Job as saying "I am innocent but God declares me guilty", and assert that this is the truth of it. You are in error. Job says that but that is not the fact. You assume that Job is correct but that is not logiically neccesarily the case. Job's statement may or may not be true. God says that Job is too weak to understand His purpose and is accusing someone, God, who is beyond Job's understanding.
mike25496 2 months ago
No shit , This "God" is very Stupid to let Satan Trick him ! Does anyone here think that God is Really that Stupid ?! This Book is Obiously a LIE ! The Ultimate Bible is within YOU and it's called REASON . God is so Powerfull that no Devil can even come close to him without being Burnt to a Crisp ! His very Light would Disintigrate them like Vampires by the light of the Sun ! This whole Fucken Book is one Big Lie ! Rip out of your bible like I did !
nicktesla45 3 months ago
You give love a bad name. Apt.
TheBardlover108 4 months ago
I read the bok of Job and after all the tragedy God blessed Job with more than he lost ,including healing his body because he was faithful to God and never cursed God through his tribulations.Also in the begining of Job God allowed Satan to do those things because God knew Job would be faithful.Test of Faith
lavonicole1 4 months ago
@lavonicole1 "God blessed Job with more than he lost"
So if you had, e.g., 3 children who were killed in a horrible accident and some time later 6 people came along claiming to be a "blessing" to replace your dead children, you would view your children as having been replaced?
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH I believe that God restored everything two fold, but NOT his children. They were not replaced two fold; however, how does one justify the killing of the children in the first place?
allsaintsmonastery 2 months ago
@allsaintsmonastery That, Your Eminence, is one of the questions I've yet to get a satisfactory answer to.
ProfMTH 2 months ago
@ProfMTH
That is because it is you who create the emphasis that his children were regarded by God as little more than objects to be replaced.
Amarx00 1 month ago
@Amarx00 That's in the text - have you read it?
jcgadfly 1 month ago
@jcgadfly
Really.. I doubt you know much of it!
What text are you reffering to?
Sanaticua Vaticanus, Byzatine or you good old texus receptus.. I am even starting to doubt ProfMTH as an atheist, as he seems to focus very much on Catholic exogesis. Which is not surprising from his background. He may be a nialist! Or at the very best short sighted, I would doubt many evangelicals today would call a Catholic a Christian so im not surpised he has fallen into the old "It's all Christianity.
Amarx00 1 month ago
@Amarx00 The book of Job - have you read it? Look up Job 42:13 and come back. The new kids were supposedly better than the old kids - was Job simply supposed to forget the children God killed?
Evangelicals probably wouldn't say Catholics are Christians. I'd say the same about evangelicals - they're not Christians either. They're Paulists.
jcgadfly 1 month ago
@jcgadfly
..trap! From that I doubt he did much independant study while in semenary.. And just let them spoon feed him thier Babilonian rubbish.
The point is try and apply this video to a Texus Receptus reading, and you will find you cant! Now consider that 99% of the archiological evidence actually supports the texus receptus reading!
If you can figure out why that is.. Then you will know what a true Christian is.
Amarx00 1 month ago
@jcgadfly
I think it's time you read a real Bible KJV (so you can have an informed opinion).
Start at the end with revelations, and see how it describes real Christians & pretend Christians.. As well as everything else that is going on around us now!
Amarx00 1 month ago
@allsaintsmonastery I can't imagine that I would care that I had the money or anything else if my kids were destroyed POINTLESSLY.
MyContext 1 month ago
@ProfMTH One child can never replace another one that was killed , Don't be a fool .
nicktesla45 1 week ago
@lavonicole1 if you dont already have children, then dont do so, you will end up as being a horrible parent if you are willing to accept replacement for your children.
mignik01 1 month ago
@lavonicole1
So why test if god knew Job would be faithful? Just to win a fixed bet with Satan? Your rationalization is silly!
MrNeodarwinian 1 month ago
@MrNeodarwinian Because Satan and God's angels didn't know. Soon, after, The Book about Job was made for us to see how Job was loyal to God no matter what. Life must go on and it did after Job refuse to curse the Lord. Now you and I are born on this earth along with many others to have a chance to look at the TRUE STORY. OF jOB wich really happened.
MCAmbitious 1 month ago
@MCAmbitious Yow did not answer the question. " True story of Job that really happened " is an unsupported assertion. No better than this? So, do not waste my tome with another " response.
MrNeodarwinian 1 month ago
@MrNeodarwinian Your question is stupid in the first place and you seem to not understand that the book of job had to happen if people believe in God. Your mentality is way different from what people believe. I did answere your question. The Book of Job was written so we can look at it because some more things are about to happen like the Mark of te Beast aka the chip. That is on youtube so look it up
MCAmbitious 1 month ago
@lavonicole1 If God KNEW Job would be faithful, why put him through the test to begin with??
atheistram 1 week ago
What is the point of these stupid videos? People die all of the time and all of you who are agaisnt God will die as well. Job already lost and is dead. Now some people act like Job is still alive. God is the ruler and people will die so it does not matter if you believe in God or not. Yet since we feel that God is a real person, it is best to leave it alone and be with God since he is the ruler and the number onesource of power. The Lord rules dood.
MCAmbitious 4 months ago
@MCAmbitious One of the most inane comments I've ever gotten on a video--and that's not an easy contest to compete in.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH We will both die and is close to death wich is a reality. We may die of old age or we may die another way. Now your video is targeting God but don't forget that the Bible is about our lives. It is about the past to the present. Now it makes no sense to make a video like this since us dying and violence in itself should be enough to turn from God. Your mental is different. You never believe in God in the first place and only go by the book. Yet you are right though, God doesn't love all.
MCAmbitious 4 months ago
@MCAmbitious Is it possible to not believe in God and the Bible and honestly end up believing in them both?
If God doesn't love all, how is he all-loving at all?
MunkyDrag0n 4 months ago
@ProfMTH Awww... you shouldn't have disabled the comment ratings. I wanted to thumb down his comment and thumb yours up.
mickeymouse12678 4 months ago
@mickeymouse12678 "you shouldn't have disabled the comment ratings"
I didn't. It used to be my practice not to have them on. At the time, I thought it encouraged discussion.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH I suppose that makes sense.
Well either way, I watched all three of these videos on book of Job and I found them quite interesting.
mickeymouse12678 4 months ago
@ProfMTH Good vid man.Ya know what I think?! I think the bible is MEANT TO BE an instruction manual for life.I think "God" was supposed to represent some sort of greatly powerful ruler or something.Think about it.The Bible pretty much covers EVERY bad situation you can come across in life.Noah teaches you about preparedness.Jesus & Judas teach you about betrayal.The Babylon prophecy warns what happens when a nation becomes rich,proud & sinful (Wake up America)....
MRWEDAWEST 4 months ago
@ProfMTH So if you look at the story of Job for what it is instead of with the "God is love" goggles,it's a great story.Its a story about blind loyalty,betrayal,the corruptability of "good" people (God in this case),the power of ego,disappointment,injustice,etc.There's alot to learn from the bible.Ya just gotta read it with the right perspective,without trying to reaffirm your beliefs.Just read it and learn from it.
MRWEDAWEST 4 months ago
The christian god acts like a cowardly little boy with way too much power. He can't answer a mortals simple question (who art thou o man, to question god?!) and yet, he can torment, ridicule or smite people in place of the answer that if not a coward he could respond like a man. i'm reminded of the star trek movie where kirk encounters "god" and asks him a question and gets a lightning bolt for an answer. what does god need with a starship?
shitthrowingmonkey1 6 months ago
@shitthrowingmonkey1 "The christian god acts like a cowardly little boy with way too much power."
A bit like the kid in that famous "It's A Good Life" episode of "Twilight Zone" /watch?v=nk5UakRSNXQ
ProfMTH 6 months ago
@ProfMTH Love that episode! Did you see the follow up episode? He had a daughter!
MyContext 1 month ago
You know I really don't think the christians really just sit down and READ the book of job. they talk about it, but they dont seem to have an understanding of what goes in on the story. so its like they have some vague notion of who job was and his dealings with god.
shitthrowingmonkey1 6 months ago
@shitthrowingmonkey1 ...lmaoo...the irony of all this is...JOB condemned people like you.....JOB remained faithful and drove away people like you from him....SO EXPLAIN THAT.
JOB 42 v 12: So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job MORE than his beginning :-)))))
JOB 42 v 16 17:After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations. So Job died, being old and full of days. :-PPPP
You LOSE, satan LOSE....and God and Job WIN
Drebln893 6 months ago
@Drebln893 God agreed with job that he was correct. Read the whole book. The others were commanded to make sacrifices to god for job, so that god would accept them. Job was in the right in questioning god and saying that he didn't sin, because he did nothing wrong.
shitthrowingmonkey1 6 months ago
@Drebln893 God wins, yet Job's wife, children, employees, and animals all lose. Hell of a price for Job to pay for God to turn to Satan and say "Told you so." Where is the glory for the dead? Did they arrive in Heaven and say "Good idea O' Lord! Thank you for setting Satan on us to prove a point! Shall we get on our knees and praise you for all eternity for your mercy and compassion now?"
SaucerheadTharp 6 months ago
@SaucerheadTharp ..JOB 42 v 12: So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job MORE than his beginning :-)))))...you mad?
Drebln893 6 months ago
@Drebln893 I think the question is are you mad? Would you honestly be fine with your wife and kids murdered on a bet? Would you honestly think that getting a hotter wife and a two-for-one for each child would in any way make up for the initial murders? I tell you that a whole slew of people died in this story and all I get is a ":-)))))". Where is your empathy? Where is your humanity?
SaucerheadTharp 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SaucerheadTharp ...Ecclesiastes 7:8: The end of a matter is better than its beginning, and patience is better than pride.
JOB 42 v 12: So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job MORE than his beginning :-)))))
Drebln893 6 months ago
Hah. A lesson on morality and ontological principles from a moral relativist. The uploader may as well play the role of chimpanzee lecturing in astrophysics.
Agrippa521 7 months ago
@Agrippa521 Nice ad hominem. Please let me know if you ever have anything that isn't fallacious to say. Thanks.
ProfMTH 7 months ago
@Agrippa521 Talk about the verses. You aren't addressing any single point that Prof has brought up in this video series. What do you make of verses like 2:3 or 9:20? Have you actually read the book of Job?
God speaks and takes action in the book of Job. Through this depiction of his words and deeds we get a glimpse of his character. It's not a flattering portrayal, either. He can be tempted by Satan? He lashes out at Job sarcastically after letting him be tortured and ruined? WTF?
llkeith77 6 months ago
@Agrippa521 ...looool...That is always the case when you hear them pick up the book of Job and notice how THEY never read the outcome of Job's life....TOO MUCH GLORY for them so they skip it.
Drebln893 6 months ago
@Agrippa521 Because the absolute morality of a being that will torture and ruin who he admits is a blameless and righteous man, FOR NO REASON, is so much more superior. Maybe your god and his twisted morals do exist, but if so, your god is an ass.
djtripnosys 6 months ago
@Agrippa521 owned
raymitch7410 5 months ago
Satan is thinking, "and they call ME the evil one..."
JabberCT 7 months ago
Just hear yourself talking, you are giving answers that makes sense for the world, when would the intelligent guys like you understand that God's kingdom isn't this world but the next, why are you so concerned about suffering, how do you explain your problems when u have them? Do they have a purpose? There are many things that you can't understand, because God gives sight to the blind, not to those who can see like u, because hearing they can't hear and seeing they can't see!
ilovedlight 7 months ago
wait a minute!!! doesn't that mean god cheated?
It sounds like job was well on his way to "cursing" gods name till god came and basically said "umm excuse me? did you make the world? no? didn't think so"
sailornaruto39 7 months ago
Dearest God, please forgive them because they don't know what they are doing. It is clear that satan is working very hard here.
theapienaar 8 months ago
@theapienaar Care to be specific?
ProfMTH 8 months ago
@theapienaar PLEASE explain. Would this be the same Satan that made God do this in the first place??
obviouslyso 7 months ago
@theapienaar Satan must love the truth coming out.
Strangerinasland 7 months ago
It seems to me god suffers from bipolar disorder. Therefore he should step down his positions and allow someone more capable to handle his holy matters. xD
gambitx4000 8 months ago
I've always thought that if the writers of the Bible were trying to make this book out to be the moral compass for later generations they failed, TERRIBLY. It amazes me how Christians and "Christ followers"(wouldn't want to get the terminology wrong lol) defend this book with all of their might and I was surprised to find out, after debates with a few of them, that most haven't read the Bible in its entirety. If there was a Book that spelled out how I ought to live my life I'd want to read it.
fungial 8 months ago
Comment removed
fungial 8 months ago
To be fair PROF, was not the reason god took up the challenge to actually see what Job would do when all his earthly blessings were taken away, (for no reason)?
rovingdesertfox 8 months ago
@rovingdesertfox "To be fair PROF, was not the reason god took up the challenge to actually see what Job would do when all his earthly blessings were taken away, (for no reason)?"
Not according to the text. The text says there was no reason. Certainly you don't think it unfair to go with what the text says, do you?
ProfMTH 8 months ago
@ProfMTH 9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.” 12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”
rovingdesertfox 8 months ago
@ProfMTH The text I provided seems to be saying that Satan challenges God to see what Job would do if all of his possessions were taken away. Would Job then still love God? To me this would be your reason. Not sure how you say the text says there is no reason.
rovingdesertfox 8 months ago
@rovingdesertfox If you know that food is poisoned, but your friend doesn't believe you. Would you allow your friend to given the food that you know is poisoned to your parents or whoever you care about? You know the outcome just as god as depicted knew the outcome. What is the point of allowing such horrors?
MyContext 1 month ago
@MyContext I learned something since I commented. I believe the god depicted in the bible has been a fictional fabrication invented by those in power to control the masses. I'm reading a free ebook entitled, "The extortion of the ruling elite". It's on a pdf file which can be easily found on line. Whenever you see "The LORD God" in the bible, it is a fictitious character invented as a counterfeit. Very enlightening reading.
rovingdesertfox 1 month ago
@ProfMTH Now I see you are saying Job provided no reason for what happened to him and I agree wholeheartedly. When I saw that Satan had issued a challenge, I took that as a reason why Job was messed with.
rovingdesertfox 8 months ago
@rovingdesertfox " Now I see you are saying Job provided no reason for what happened to him...."
No, that's not what I'm saying (although the story does have Job figuring out that there was no reason for what had happened to him). God quite clearly says there was no reason for him to allow what happened to Job (Job 2:3).
ProfMTH 8 months ago
@ProfMTH This is beginning to feel like pulling gum out of my hair.
The comment I made beginning: "The text I provided..." seems to be unanswered at this stage.
Let me try again: Job provided no reason. God had no reason. Then Satan approaches God and challenges him, wondering if Job's possessions were take away whether Job would still love God.
This is the reason the story continues. God allows Satan to determine whether Job loves God because of his wealthy condition.
rovingdesertfox 8 months ago
@rovingdesertfox I agree with you.
@ProfMTH "My people are destroyed because of lack of knowledge..." Try to know God more. You're just basing everything to your own understanding. For the bible said "Trust in the Lord will all your heart and lean NOT on your OWN UNDERSTANDING!"
jowieduya 8 months ago
@jowieduya "Try to know God more."
Do you have anything to say that's relevant to this video series?
ProfMTH 8 months ago
@jowieduya "lean NOT on your OWN UNDERSTANDING!"
That's impossible. You had to use your understanding to decide to believe what you believe & to trust your imaginary fiend.
Strangerinasland 7 months ago
@Strangerinasland Dude it is written in the bible. You can not explain everything and understand everything.
jowieduya 7 months ago
@jowieduya You had to use your understanding to decide that.
Strangerinasland 7 months ago
@jowieduya I don't even think god understands what the fuck is happening in our world. Because he obviously isn't omniscient because if he was he would make a world in which there is peace with free will.
1AndrewTheWolf 7 months ago
Christians don't read the bible, they skip though.
LegionIscariot 9 months ago
Prometheus always had the better response to theodicy.
myerssa7 9 months ago
WOW !! Job 40: 10-14 proves that what "god" admires and respects is only power and would have loved and respected Adolph Hitler !! That is not a god I would ever obey or respect !! No, Instead I would spit on the face of a god like that even with my dying breath !! fuck that monster !! I truly Suspect that was some Low-life Extraterrestrial playing god with Job and Not the God of Jesus, Not the real God .
nicktesla45 9 months ago
@iamthatiam1962 um.. r u sure u read what i said. im not defending those who tampered with the bible but saying this guy in the video is adding to the bible b/c he leaves out important info and adds crap. i am a christian and beleive Jesus Christ died on the cross for me and you
pratherjacob 9 months ago
I never understood this story, however i don't the almighty; but I do question "Man"! They have tampered with this for centuries! Question though, why? Research the the people that changed it. I know my father is just, but man is wicked. They make the almighty seem like a lier. Look at exodus 3:14-15 He clearly gives his name and saids it's his name forever and his memorial for all generations. But in exodus 6:3 he gives a different name. mmmmmmmm!
IAMTHATIAM1962 9 months ago
um..lets see someone said christians should read the book that leads us but the person pointing the finger and is "suppose" to be a professor? clearly has not read it himself without adding to the bible which God clearly says not to do.in Ch1 it says that some angles came to God and satan came with them,God ask where have you come from and he tells him and God asks have you considered my servant Job?So God was simpley testing Job's faith.You should really just simply read it and not complicateit
pratherjacob 9 months ago
@pratherjacob well that's a mighty test! stop defending the evil people that tampered with the scriptures. gosh!!!
IAMTHATIAM1962 9 months ago
man god sure is a self serving asshole isn't he?
Cainkane1 10 months ago
THE BIBLE WAS ALSO WRITTEN BY MAN.. CANT EXPECT US TO GET EVERYTHING RIGHT.. I THINK THAT IS THE PROBLEM IF YOU NEVER REALIZED THAT
JRR31984 11 months ago
@JRR31984 US! WHO'S US? MAN JUST TAMPERED WITH BIBLE AND LIED ON GOD! IT'S SATAN BEHIND THIS SCHEME OF THINGS. WHY U GUYS GET THOSE MISSING BOOKS THAT WAS DELIBERATELY LEFT OUT AND ASK WHY. EITHER SOME OF YOU ALREADY NOW THE TRUTH OR YOU DON'T HAVE THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH ON YOU! THE BIBLE IS ABOUT PEOPLES LIVES AND SALVATION, THE DOESN'T DECEIVE U.
IAMTHATIAM1962 9 months ago
@IAMTHATIAM1962 idk.. im not really sure devils or a devil exsists.. i think what ghandi said was more realistic that the only evil that exsists is the evil in our hearts and thats where it should be fought..
and yea they did choose to use the most "legit seeming" gospels to be in the bible but we have access to read more that arent in it on the internet like the gospel of thomas.. i like a lot of those verses because thomas was really skeptical sounding and jesus says some interesting things
JRR31984 9 months ago
yeah, god did it for the lulz basically.
zecle 11 months ago
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campdon 1 year ago
I don't think it is about power. It is about wisdom. Sure God is powerful. But the conclusion of the story recommends wisdom rather than power as the point of the story. Does Job a howl against injustice? Yes. But that is because of Job's limited perspective. That is what God shows Job at the end.
Does God declare Job guilty though he is blameless. No. That is to play the game Job's friends play.
Is it a matter of Job's powerlessness? No. It is a matter of Job's limited wisdom.
campdon 1 year ago
@campdon " But the conclusion of the story recommends wisdom rather than power as the point of the story."
Really? Where do you see that?
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH Job 28:28 is the key verse of the book. "The fear of the Lord is wisdom." (Fear means great reverence.) Those are Job's words. And Job does fear the Lord. Yet his wisdom is not complete. In God's reply to Job. God declares Job without wisdom - biynah (38:4). Then in 38:37 God challenges Job in regard to his lack of wisdom - chokmah. Only at the end when Job bows before God's far great wisdom does Job demonstrate complete wisdom.
campdon 1 year ago
@campdon
Okay... Fear and great reverence are not exactly the same.
For instance. I am very afraid of heights, ofcourse due to that, I have a healthy respect for cliffsides and ladders and such. But that is just fear talking, and it lending me the wisdom to stay the heck away from it.
Great reverence is something that follows through love.
Job fears God for what god can do to him. He doesnot want to suffer anymore then he already has.
But respect cannot grow out of fear.
thedutchman01 1 year ago
@campdon huh? Where the hell did you see that in the book?
surshot56 1 year ago
@surshot56 The interpretation of Job as a poetic treatise on wisdom is neither new nor unique. A quick check on google will take you to a number of sites that discuss Job as wisdom literature. In fact, it seems to me ProfMTH has chosen a rare interpretation to refute and has proposed an equally rare interpretation of his own. So a quick check on on google will answer the question, "where . . . did you see that in the book?"
campdon 1 year ago
The message in the Book of Job is simple: we don't know why suffering happens. And, more importantly, we don't need to know. Whatever happens happens. Deal with it, appropriately. What else can you do?
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
This is interesting, though I would say there is a difference between 'inciting' and 'deceiving'. Deceiving suggests using some type of 'falseness' or false pretence/trick, whereas incite suggests arousing or goading someone into doing something. The word 'incite' and 'arouse' were the same in ancient greek and suggest heightening emotion and/or response. No deception necessarily needed.
dimitraeus202 1 year ago
@dimitraeus202 Whom did I say was deceived?
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH You're right. I thought you said 'deceived' but in fact you said God was 'tempted'. I still think there is a slight difference between 'tempted' and 'incited', though I agree it is strange as in the story of Jesus, the Devil clearly tries to get him to use his power (jump from a cliff and let 'the angels save you') and Jesus refuses to be part of the 'incitement'.
dimitraeus202 1 year ago
This is a great analysis- really well done.
There is an interesting and vicious concept that comes up with Christians when studying Job. It is that, given the fact that God rants and bullies on Job, the actual person going through the suffering, for just asking and expecting justice- it is hinted that one, who is a mere spectator of the events, can't even question nor think that we can get an answer for our problems as well. Kind of a double barrel watch n shut up lesson
it is sort of a double
DNGR411 1 year ago
@DNGR411 Thanks. Yes, it's interesting how many believers who read this really take Job to task for asking the very simple question, "What happened here?"
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH This is absolutely thought provoking. In my opinion, everything you need to know about God's personality and capricious use of his power, is well known in the book of Job. Great job. Its kind of hard for a Christian to use the, "oh your taking it out of context." card.
surshot56 1 year ago
@surshot56 Thanks a lot. I'm glad you found it thought-provoking and interesting. And despite the difficulty of playing the "context" card, you won't be surprised to learn how many Christian respondents to this series have done precisely that. ;-)
ProfMTH 1 year ago
God did not give Himself dominion on this planet. He gave it to us, therefore we have to look at the purpose and plan for creating this planet and how we and He operate on earth. Your analogy of Job fails when you understand this. See Kingdom Petitions & Prayer Protocols ~ 5 of 20 ~ Dr. Myles Munroe. If you are seekers of truth then this video of Munroes or the 6th for that matter proves your lack of understanding of man and God's role and both our authority.
2glori 1 year ago
Dude, ProfMTH, you don't get the story. Sorry, you don't. Nor do theists. If you read it literally, you miss the point. Ifs a fairy tale.
The dudes who wrote it were expressing that which makes us cope with a harsh reality that we don't deserve. "God" is that which sustains our spirit, when we are faced with unjustified shit, which occasionally hits the fan. But we can only cope with reality, if we stop the useless "why me" and accept our lot. Its about finding peace in an imperfect world
vdizhoor 1 year ago
@vdizhoor "Dude, ProfMTH, you don't get the story. Sorry, you don't. Nor do theists. If you read it literally, you miss the point. Ifs a fairy tale."
I know that. I'm approaching it here from a believer's point of view. It seems you didn't get *that*.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH
Dude, I understand that you think its a fairy tale. I get that you are an unbeliever. So am I. Sorry, I don't know what your motives are - I can't. My point isn't that its a fairy tale, but that it DOES contain a truth. That this story is ABOUT something real. Its a good story.
If you get it, Instead of telling people that it is literally absurd or amoral, why not explain to them what it is really about? Wouldn't that be a more productive use of your eloquence?
vdizhoor 1 year ago
@vdizhoor "That this story is ABOUT something real. Its a good story."
I agree.
"If you get it, Instead of telling people that it is literally absurd or amoral, why not explain to them what it is really about? "
You don't get what this video was about, i.e., challenging a traditional Christian approach to the story.
"Wouldn't that be a more productive use of your eloquence?"
Despite your (apparently) not liking this series, it was very productive. :-)
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH
OK, so basically, you are saying that the traditional Christian approach is to take it literally. In that case, I guess I was expressing a wish that you'd tell them what the story is actually about, or how you read it. Otherwise its no carrot, just stick. Also, its rather obvious that the literal reading strips it of its meaning. A waste of analysis.
My points are probably in vain anyway - you do your thing anyway, and it isn't like we disagree on the subject. So, take care, dude!
vdizhoor 1 year ago
@vdizhoor The approach that I have experienced has been an emphasis on faith to the EXCLUSION of everything else in the story. I remember thinking why would a loving anything allow this? This is doesn't make any sense.
MyContext 1 month ago
@MyContext I think God plays a very small and is obviously fictional - his bet with Satan is just a gimmick to get things going, like in any mythology. The interesting bit is the discussion with Job after his faith in God is lost. That's the bulk of the story. Like Proverbs or Ecclesiastes - the authors were inspired to expressed what they learned in life through myth. Like any fairy tale, taking it literally strips the meaning away. Its about finding solace when nothing else is left.
vdizhoor 1 month ago
@vdizhoor I agree... Unfortunately, many people believe the fairy tale is real.
MyContext 1 month ago
@vdizhoor You started your series by saying in 1981 you were considering the clergy if im correct? Also that it was the book of Job that "lead" you into atheism (Paraphrasing)? May I ask, what faith did you belong to, and who taught you the hermanutic, and exegisis translations of the old testament?
joe018687645 1 year ago
@joe018687645
I think you meant to write to ProfMTH, who is the author of these videos. I was merely commenting. I was never a believer, although I was curious about Christianity when I was 9-12, although at the time my attitude toward it was somewhere between an earlier belief in Santa Claus (i.e. somewhat real) and a fairy tale (total fiction).
vdizhoor 1 year ago
@vdizhoor Yeah, the moral is "Don't appeal to authority."
1AndrewTheWolf 7 months ago
@1AndrewTheWolf Well, both Satan and God act like total pricks in this one, so neither is really an authority. I think the point is that shit hits (or can hit) the fan regardless of what you do. And when it does, the less you ask silly questions (like, why me?!?!?) and the sooner you realize you are not that important in the grand scheme of things, the better off you will be.
vdizhoor 7 months ago
I love the book of Job. I know that God does not lie I had to keep reading the bible as a whole to get understanding. So years later I SEE. The word of G states and is proven in Job that satan goes about to and fro LIKE a roaring lion seeing whom he may devour. Job opened the door with Job 3:25. To walk with God He better be who you greatly fear or consider. As Jesus told Peter Satan will have the right to ask for you - see LK 22:31. Think kingdom to understand kingdom. there's more to this -
2glori 1 year ago
@2glori chapter three comes AFTER chapter two. you should read it ...in context ...think kingdom.
jwiderstra 1 year ago
@jwiderstra I am not sure what U mean, but again line upon line.... 2 understand God's word U have to see the whole picture- at least have the KEY to the picture. Without knowing Him - not surfacely. This video here is only-accurrate in view of limiting yourself 2 - Chapters 1 & 2. I have read it & I No what God has stated about fear which is Y I referred those who are searching for the Truth to chapter 3:25. Thinking Kingdom.....
2glori 1 year ago
@2glori I can take a picture of your feet and say I took your picture and still don't know who I took a picture of. In the scoop of Job chapter 1 & 2 This guy is using limited understanding or better fleshly reasoning - taking only a picture of the feet. God allowed Abrah(am) 2 reason with him b4 destroying sodom & G-. What Jesus went thur SEEMS evil, but it delivered me. Job is no Jesus, but OF HIS TIME there was none like him. God word builds upon itself - this is the context I seek - truth
2glori 1 year ago
@2glori in ch3, Job is cursing the day he was born. In death, he would have been safe from life, in the company of kings and princes and riches. maybe i misunderstood what your comment "Job opened the door with 3:25" was referring to, but as i read your post, and read the christian scriptures, chapter 3 comes after ch1 and 2, meaning he cursed his birth AFTER being the subject of a bet between two entities trying to prove something. The whole picture (imho) shows not a good god.
jwiderstra 1 year ago
@jwiderstra I saw it that way 2. Until I began 2 talk, meditate in his word & get to know Him thur scripture. It was easy 4 me to see God as a tyrant Until I saw that if He is telling the truth as He states then the enemy would again be doing the very same thing as he did in the garden-deceiving the one that God gave this Kingdom (earth) to. If you come to the book of Job with no understanding of our part in why satan can dare come before God to ask for us then you place the blame on big bad God
2glori 1 year ago
@jwiderstra But if you come to Job knowing that mankind gave his kingship over this planet to God's enemy; allowing satan dominion over them i.e. satan's kingdom Then your questions are different cause U understand whose u are. Job was faithful above most of his time but he had a Great fear and if U ever read the bible God does not function in fear only Faith - Job's one imperfection which Satan operates in our fears. Fear God which i.e., honor/respect. Job had to deal with his fear (satan).
2glori 1 year ago
The word you conveniently leave only as BLAMELESS is misguiding in that form. The rest of the Bible is clear that all men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The word BLAMELESS or PERFECT means "complete, morally innocent, having integrity" or "one who is morally and ethically pure". It means that he knows what the Lord wants from him. Knows what good is in the eyes of the Lord. Being a man though that he of course would on occasion fail to obey God.
jedicharls 1 year ago
@jedicharls "The word you conveniently leave only as BLAMELESS is misguiding in that form."
Then your holy book is "misguiding" because it "coveniently" leaves it "in that form." The word means perfect, morally & ethically pure.
"It means that he knows what the Lord wants from him."
Not only that he knew, but that he did.
"The rest of the Bible is clear that all men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
Your argument is with your contradictory holy book, not me.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
brilliant videos, I was raised catholic in a very moderate household so I didn't know most of this stuff. I gave it up when I was eighteen and I'm very glad I did that.
guendoloena1 1 year ago
@guendoloena1 Thanks. I'm glad you did, too.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
collinoro 1 year ago
"And Job, how earnestly does he expostulate with God, for the many afflictions he suffered, notwithstanding his righteousness?
This question, in the case of Job, is decided by God himself, not by arguments derived from Job's sin, but from his own power." Hobbes, Leviathan xxxi 6
collinoro 1 year ago
ok then what? so mistakenly fuck you because i was tempted, so for you to know that im powerful becuase im god, so i do as i plz, now i feel like you should have the double of your stuff!! for no reason!, im confuse lol, job´s friends said it must be something you´ve done and job should no question god, then god saids, this friends of yours defending me are so fukin wrong go and apologize, job should question me THIS IS A WTF BOOK!! im stupid explain it to me plz
gouki02 1 year ago
I hope you know that you are only insulting God because the story is about God showing to satan that he lives in jobs heart. God tests your faith and after all he has gaven us I believe that we should give something back.. Even if its so little....
josetorr06 1 year ago
@josetorr06 "I hope you know that you are only insulting God because the story is about God showing to satan that he lives in jobs heart."
Really? Where does the text say anything about that?
BTW, why would God waste his time trying to show Satan anything? Doesn't he know that Satan never learns his lesson? I think *you* are the one insulting your god by portraying him as an idtiot who wastes his time trying to prove something to Satan by destroying one of his most faithful servants.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH
Well you are good at confusing people and playing with their ming the fact is that, My God is the samae one who created you so God Bless you and only the fragile will fall.
josetorr06 1 year ago
@josetorr06 So, no answers to any of the questions I asked, eh?
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH Well they are many question that dont have an answeer and your live will keep on going even if i make a thousend comments to your video and telling you what is my opinion so i will not waste my time but i will surly prey for your soul and keep on going the way i am... life is full of horrible things. Many are caused by us so i will continue to look for my answers in the Bible and the fact is the you are explaning the story the way u understand it and i think differently.
josetorr06 1 year ago
@josetorr06 "Well they are many question that dont have an answeer...."
So the questions I asked you that you haven't answered do not have answers, is that correct? E.g., there is no answer to the question about where the text says anything about God showing to satan that he lives in jobs heart? Or do you merely mean that you're just making stuff up and, therefore, you'd rather not answer the question? I'm guessing it's that you'd rather not answer because you know you have no answer.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH
so you think you,ve got it figure out? First of all, GOD did not lie on job or did not need to lie on job to allow him to go through what he went through. For all have sin and come short of the glory of GOD. For in sin did my mother conceived me. The notion that GOD would lie is seriously misguarded and for someone who studied theology, you really lake wisdom and understanding of the book of Job and of GOD. But, if you want understanding and wisdom, ask GOD and HE will give you.
good12326 1 year ago
@good12326 First, learn to spell. Second, the text has God saying Job was blameless. Was God telling the truth when he said that about Job?
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH you are still missing the point and still lacking wisdom. If you won't pray for wisdom and understanding, I will pray for you that GOD will give you what you really need. GOD bless you
good12326 1 year ago
@good12326 I'd appreciate your answering the question I asked you.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@josetorr06 and i was not trying to change ur mind i was just giving u my opinion. Opinion based on my interpretation of the book of job. i have listen to your video because i believe that i could learn something from it and i did.. thank you.
josetorr06 1 year ago
@josetorr06 Tell you the truth, God did not make man after adam and Eve. He gave them and many of us the ability to generate through sexual intercourse. In the book of geneses, God told man and other creatures to multiply and be fruitful. If he made us, he would said somethng else.
MCAmbitious 10 months ago
It appears that Job is trying to figure out what happened to him, is he trying to use his finite mind to understand God's, or being self-centered a some suggested? As you say, God made his point and did it his way until there was no other recourse or thing for Job to say or do but to surrender and throw in the towel.
orionfox6 1 year ago
@orionfox6 he had. he was just question why.
TonPappa 1 year ago
i think you have an honest assesment of this book. I am a Christian, but have never went along with typical presentations of the meaning of this story...i have been through some horrible, tragic things in the last year and resent anyone using this book as a source of hope. The only positive message i get from it is that perhaps God rewarded Job in the end for maintaining an honest sincere appraisal of his situation...instead of the typical "religious" stand that his friends had...that, i can buy
dogbutt 1 year ago
God never answers Job's questions about justice because it is a non-sequitur; whatever befalls people may not have anything to do with their righteousness at all (i.e. it is without reason). This is because we as the creation and not the Creator are not "owed" anything. The fact that we have *anything at all*, even if it is just our very next breath, can only be considered a loving gift from God.
tolkien1138 1 year ago
@tolkien1138 "God never answers Job's questions about justice because it is a non-sequitur...."
Because the god of the Book of Job is all about power, not justice.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH Justice is not to be found in this world, yes, but that's not to say justice is not to be found ever. So we do good without any expectation of reward but also know that bad things don't happen because we did something wrong. It also isn't about power as it is about who God is as the principle cause and end of all things. If we were talking about Q from Star Trek doing these things it would be a very different scenario. By all rights everything belongs to God and Job is "owed" nothing.
tolkien1138 1 year ago
I am a Christian, but unlike most I don't think your interpretation is all that far off. The purpose of the Book of Job is to dispense with the notion represented by Job's friends: that people who are just are successful and people who are wicked suffer. You see this view even today in such things as the "Prosperity Gospel." But even in each of our personal experience we know this isn't the case, so we identify with Job's dilemma. (cont.)
tolkien1138 1 year ago
You completely misunderstood the book of Job. God was first of all: Proving to satan that Job would not curse him even if he was living in squalor. Secondly: God was humbling Job, because Job had become puffed up with pride; and as any christian that has read the Bible would know: God hates pride, and vanity!
domon38 1 year ago
@domon38 "God was first of all: Proving to satan that Job would not curse him"
Why would God have to prove anything to Satan?
"God was humbling Job, because Job had become puffed up with pride"
Nothing in the text says that. God says Job was blameless. Why don't you believe him?
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH God said job was blameless, yes! But Job WAS proud, he was telling God that he was not doing his job right! So that's why God came down in a whirlwind to assert to Job his authority over mankind. That it wasn't Job's place to question the ways of God. And as Job was questioning the ways of God, Satan was also questioning God's Judgement, and that is why God was proving that to Satan! And btw, when reading any text, you can't just take it literally, you have to read between the lines.
marykaram 1 year ago
@marykaram "God said job was blameless, yes! But Job WAS proud...."
So Job wasn't *really* blameless, is that it?
" you have to read between the lines."
I'll stick with the text.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
this story of Job is nithing more than a perable meaning no mater what happends dont question him just believe what happends at the end of the story
Profmth
antwizzle53 1 year ago
I say you have a poor understand of life and the world. You are 47 and yet seem to lack the respect God deserves. I don't claim to know God. or what he is or anything because I can never understand. I not that pig headed. But I believe good and evil is something real. We have a choice. With God, I don't think he needs to worry about good and evil or ever works on a relm we as humans can ever touch. Jesus was the new law. Listen to Jesus.
silverpizza100 1 year ago
Who are we to proclaim that we are blameless? Romans 3:10 "There is none righteous, no not one." To portray God as a monster or a liar is blasphemy! It rains on the just and the unjust to bring to completion God's plan. A plan that was in motion long before the creation of man. Sounds like you need to read the entire book of Job again yourself to get the true meaning. No matter how blameless we think we are, God will be the final judge and power determining our eternal home.
cashdomino 1 year ago
@cashdomino "Who are we to proclaim that we are blameless?"
If you've ever read the Book of Job or even just watched this video series, you would know that the text first has God proclaiming the Job is blameless (Job 1:8, 2:3). Why don't you believe your Bible?
"There is none righteous, no not one."
You should watch the following video: /watch?v=_0wYL5-VqBU
"To portray God as a monster or a liar is blasphemy!"
I didn't write the Book of Job; I'm just talking about what it says.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH You evidently don't understand what you are reading. The Book of Job portrays God in His Truth. That God is all powerful and all loving. If God decides to test you or me, then who are we to stop it, no matter how blameless we think we are. Job thought his righteousness was blameless. However, if you read the entire book, you will find that he, in fact, was not. This book gives us the overall picture of the trials and troubles we face as humans.
cashdomino 1 year ago
@cashdomino "You evidently don't understand what you are reading."
I understand it fine. You're the one attributing things to it that aren't in text, not I.
"That God is all powerful and all loving."
The book never says a word about God being loving at all. Just powerful. You're imposing things on the text that don't appear in it in order to make it more palatable to your belief set.
"no matter how blameless we think we are"
God said Job was blameless. Have you read the book?
ProfMTH 1 year ago
(con't) @cashdomino "Job thought his righteousness was blameless."
GOD SAID IT WAS. Read the book. Job 1:8, 2:3.
"if you read the entire book, you will find that he, in fact, was not."
So God was lying in Job 1:8 and 2:3 when HE said Job was blameless? The text narration is lying when it says Job was blamess (Job 1:1)? Please answer those two questions and then cite the passages(s) that say(s) Job was *not* blameless. Thanks.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
@ProfMTH Chapter 40:2 "Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty?"
Chapter 40:4 "Behold, I am of small account; what shall I answer you?"
If God is calling Job a faultfinder, then he apparently is to blame for something. Job only thinks he is blameless, that's why God called him blameless to Satan. God allows Satan to strip Job of everything to humble him; so that God can show him he is not perfect.
cashdomino 1 year ago
@cashdomino So, then, God *was* lying when he said Job was blameless in Job 1:8 and Job 2:3, correct? And the text narration is wrong when it says Job is blameless in Job 1:1, correct?