Es gibt über 5 000 Holocaust-Denkmale in der Welt, die allesamt an die NS-Zeit erinnern und uns mahnen sollen. Aber keines dient dazu, unsere eigenen Verluste zu betrauern...
Denn auch an uns ist ein Holocaust verübt worden . . .
ja du hast leider recht. Eine Archive zeigte, dass die GB Regierung trieb Frankreich den Krieg Deutschland erklärt. Sie wussten Deutschland so wohl Fr.wurden dadurch ruiniert. So GB wurden von 2 Kompetitoren befreit. Churchill war 1/2 american, jude und freimaurer. Er hat die Unterjochung des Europas ermöglich. Er hat nicht begriffen, dass nicht nur D. den Krieg verlochen hat sondern das ganzes Abenland.
Die Deutsche leiden am schlimmsten unter die Folge des Krieges.
Die Juden haben sich als Màrtyren ausgespielt und haben allen Millarden erpresst *als Entschàdigung*-Dank Ihrer Opfer haben sie die Welt bewegt, bis sie annehmen, die begründung eines judischen Staat in Palestin. Dank der Medien haben sie "einen Schuldkomplex" bei den Europàer entwickelt.
Die Deutsche waren die wahren Opfer des Krieges, weil sie immer noch unter die Folgen leiden.
@hagalruno erstmal vielen Dank das du die Wahrheit sagst.Bitte lese unbedingt das Buch "Holocaust-Industrie" ,es hat ein gerechter Jude mit Namen Norman G. Finkelstein geschrieben.Es sind knallharte Fakten(nicht nur von ihm).Er ist ein New Yorker Politologen,ein Jude dessen Eltern selbst in Ausschwitz waren u.s.w.,er ist also kein Holocaust-Leugner.Dieses Buch öffnet vielen die Augen,die Opfer des Holocaust,Deutsche,alle werden belogen.es geht um Geld und um Politik.
The arguments over the rights and wrongs will continue forever .As will the reasons. But no matter what or why lots of innocent women and children and old people died a horrible death in what must have been beyond belief . We can apologise and say sorry, but it should never have happened, but it will never erase from the memory or change the history of that night. May those who suffered rest in peace
@hagalruno I was born in 1942 in Bristol England at the time of my birth the German Luftwaffe were bombing the aeroplane works just a short distance from the hospital. But as you can see I survived and of course there were other air raids as well we went through. I cant ever recall any words of hatred being said about the Germans in my home even though at some stage we had some near misses. cont.....
@hagalruno Well said. I wasn’t told in school that we'd already bombed ALL major cities by '44, or that we flattened undefended german cities in '45. I was told the myth that Dresden was Tit for Tat for Coventry, but in1940 it had evacuation warnings. Undefended Dresden schools, hospitals, zoo, churches & 2 cathedrals were targeted-10000 degrees friestorms recumbusted for DAYS AFTER! Thousands of bodies were buried in mass graves for hygiene reasons. NO city in England suffered like this.
about Coventry. Thanks to 2 scientistes from Polen, they succeded to crac the enigma code that's why Churchilll knew that the Luftwaffe (the German's planes ) will attact Coventry.
Churchill prefered to let die the civilans to avoid that the Germans lern, the enemis discovered the enigma's code.
@74edelweiss74 Ihr Englisch ist bestimmt viel besser als mein Deutsch. Viele Leute in England denken wie ich, aber die meisten gutherzige Volk 'surfen' Youtube nicht!
@hagalruno Danke. Ich werde die buche finden und lesen . Entschuldige Mich bitte fur die lange weile bevor ich antwortete. Grüße von England. ich reise sehr gerne in Deutschland und in Frankreich auch, aber mein Französich ist nicht so gut wie dein Deutsch.
"They succeded to crac the enigma code that's why Churchilll knew that the Luftwaffe (the German's planes ) will attact Coventry".
Your English is good, my friend, but I'm afraid that claim is a myth, which "credits Enigma intelligence with far more than it was providing at the time...The intelligence which was available to Churchill on the 14th...convinced him that London was the target..Churchill was actually scanning the skies impatiently from the roof..."
2 polen succeded to crack the Enigma code. that's why Churchill knew, that the German Luftwaffe will attack Coventry. Read the official Archive, it prove it.
About the german civians and POW in the soviet union, they were not better treated then the jews in concentration camp. They staved, and died of seekness. the Father of a friend were a pow. He told me, the german were slave by the russian. They killed all the men, who were not more able to work any more.
Budiansky DID read the official archive, mate, and that's how he knew the story is false! "Enigma decrypts did give advance warning of A planned attack, but the targets mentioned were in London and the Farnborough-Maidenhead-Reading area about 40 miles west of the capital, and the date of the operation was given as November 15".
The claim first appeared in F.W.Winterbotham's book "The Ultra Secret" in 1974. Several historians and primary sources have rejected it completely, including R.V.Jones, Peter Calvocoressi, and David Hunt. Jones writes that "Enigma signals to the X-beam stations were not broken in time," and that he [Churchill] was unaware that Coventry was the intended target".
RV Jones, 'Most secret war', pp149.
Apologies, but I think you will find this one is an old wives' tale.
What are you referring to, Robin, Budiansky or Jones? I have the Budiansky book with me, but I have lent Jones' book to a friend. I can quote the full Budiansky account, if you wish.
My remark referred to Jones and his book "Streng geheim", where he gives a description of what happened concerning "Mondscheinsonate".
I think this can wait a while until you have access to your source. Never lend a book!
Anyway, in the main I was in need to have a conversation with one of the few well educated Brits on YT. So I can improve my English and my manners same time.
Sound advice, my dear fellow! And I assure you, your English and your manners are always impeccable.
It may be some time before I can retrieve the book, because of the disruption caused by the Christmas period, but as soon as I have it in my hands, I shall contact you again.
And if I do not speak to you before then, a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your family, Good Sir.
DeWeerd's "Churchill, Coventry and ULTRA" gives a detailed but easy to follow explaination of how and why Winterbotham's story is wrong; P.S.Miler-Barry does the same in Hinsley & Stripp's 'Codebreakers', pp 94-95.
There are simply too many accounts from both primary sources and professional historians which refute the story, that it cannot be taken seriously. Sorry to disappoint you.
"...of the Air Ministry...when the attack on Coventry began 100 miles away".
Source: Stephen Budiansky, 'Battle of Wits', pp 181-2.
Dresden has been the subject of much speculation, propaganda and downright lies, and it is always necessary to treat stories such as this one with caution.
I've been in Dreden and I talked with the survivor of the bombing. I belive more what they told me then what I read in the schoolsbooks.
a swiss woman was in Dresden during the ww2 and at the arrival of the red army. she was raped by the Russian. They caught the civilian and sent them in workcamp in UdSSR. She came back 5 year after the war !
She told me the one that couldn't work ani more were killed ! An other prisonner told me the same thing.
@hagalruno part 2...During the war censorship played a big part in morale and although the mention of the air raids we we doing in Germany were mentioned, I doubt the full horror of what was taking place would have been allowed to be printed or broadcast to the population of Britain. From my own feelings I always feel sad and downhearted when I see all the death and destruction we created by our bombing raids. My family like any German family would have been striving to survive..
@ronaldrobin Thank you for writing that comment and may Almighty God bless you. When I was 5 years old in 1945 we moved from Northern Germany to Dresden to escape Russian occupation. I am thankful to God we arrived late. I still have vivid memories of that horrible smoldering place.
Ich bin kein NAZI, nur Realist genug, um zu sehen was die Wahrheit ist. Was wollt ihr ganzen Zuwanderer eigendlich hier. Geht doch zurück in eure Länder und baut diese auf, anstatt in unsrem zu schmarotzen. Und nun los, prügelt ruhig verbal auf mich ein, schlimmer als es jetzt schon in der EU und Deutschland ist, kanns kaum noch werden. Ich bin mir sicher die EU wird eines Tages an ihren eigenen Schwächen in sich zusammenbrechen und dann wird daß pure Chaos regieren. Na dann gute Nacht Europa !!
Deutschland ist schon lange nicht mehr mein Land. Heute wird man als Einheimischer von den eigenen Politikern verraten und verkauft und den Zuwanderern, bläßt man puren Zucker in den Arsch. Deutschland, schäm dich, du bist eine Schande für deine eigenen Kinder. :-(((
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@krautkiller1969 die in England gelten als Kriegsverbrechen. Die anderen Frauen und Kinder in Japan und Deutschland gelten nicht als Kriegsverbrechen.
Note that only 40 000 were killed in England, only. But over 1 Million children and women were kileld in German and Japanese cities like Dresden und Hiroshima. And you are telling me these were no crimes?
The criminal never calls his own action crimes....
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"selber schuld.und die tote englische frauen und kinder?"
For your information, guys: blockthehood, mutley0777, krautkiller1969, pangloss4bullshit and LordGodOfMercy are the one and the same person.And there are ca. 20 clone accounts he uses here for control purpose. "Herding" people towards political correctness.
Anybody who disagrees with this clone master is a "Nazi Apologist". He puts it very clear.
I found a Churchill's texte that prouve what you wrote:
"Das müssen sich darüber klar sein, dass dieser Krieg nicht gegen Hitler oder den Nationalsozialismus geht, sondern gegen die Kraft des deutsches Volkes, die man für immer zerschlagen will, gleichgültig ob sie in den Händen Hitlers oder eines Jesuitenpaters liegt"
(Kleist, Perter "Auch du warst dabei" Heidelberg, 1952. S.370 und Emrys Hughes, Winston Churchill -His Career in War an Peace, S. 145 )
I can add that Churchill's mother was jewish, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's father also (original name was Rosenfeldt) and that Joseph Stalin was a jew.
Make your own conclusions. I dislike Zionism so much.
No, the Anglo-U.S. circles who planned how to ruin Europe, including Germany, Austria, Turkey and Russia, to not join their pools of resources. That begun in the 1890s and Hitler was only a puppet hired by the Anglo-U.S. Plutokrats to do the dirty work for them. The targets were mainly Germanny and Russia instigated against each other to kill as many Germans and Russians as possible.
thank you for your commentar. could you sent me please informations about the u.s + G.B. plan please. It could help my research concerning the lies about the WW2 and the crimes of Alliees against Germany and other land.
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@TheMrPangloss I found a speech that would interest you: Winston Churchill in March 1936 in the House of Commons, in a NON-PUBLIC speech:
"It has been English tradition for over 400 years to always fight the strongest power on the continent, regardless of its rulers, regardless whether it be Spain, France, or Germany or the Hitler regime".
He clearly says that the enemy is not the Hitler-regime, but GERMANY. And he adds, that it could easily be France, if France was stronger.
@TheMrPangloss This is just one of countless proves that the Allies never fought HITLER, but the WHOlE GERMAN PEOPLE.
Hitler did not play a role - that is why, as you always correctly repeat, they financed him. The Jews did not matter at all - Anne Frank and her family was DENIED access to the USA, they had applied for asylum. The British and Americans have a big mouth about "saving the Jews", but the Allies's intention was nothing of that kind.
@spotswood4444 No. The ONLY persons to blame for the 1 Million killed in German and Japanese cities, is Churchill, Harris and Roossevelt..
Compare that to the few hundreds in coventry and London! ONE MILLION., murdered by grinning wicked RAF-pilots and ugly Americans! And today, they lie about it and they insult the children and women's graves they burnt to ashes....fucking pathetic. Be ashamed to stem from a country that wrote a history of fraud and cover-up.
Only a few hundred in Coventry and London, you need educating my friend. Many tens of thousands were murdered by the Luftwaffe. I remind you that Germany invaded our friends in Poland, and Belgium, and Holland etc, this we will not allow. And as for Churchill and Harris, and Roosevelt, I remind you that if Hitler had not invaded Poland in 1939, not a single bomb would have dropped on Germany. Oh and what about the 6 million Jews that were exterminated in your final solution?
@spotswood4444 Churchill knew that the Germans will attack Coventry but he didn't evacuate the civilians to avoid that the German knew, the GB descovered the enigmasecret.
The invasion of the Belgien: France too wanted to invade this Land to attack Germany but the Germans knew it and were there earlier. It was the France's duty to protect Poland against the German and the red Army.
But the Fr. didn't declare the war to the soviets who attacked their Alliee. Why?
@hagalruno Because the "help" for Poland was a pretext, Britain never aimed to help Poland.
Also, we must ask the British: Why did they not help GERMANY against Poland? WW II was clearly triggered over the Danzig question and the Westprussia-question (Corridor-Problem), created by the British in 1919. This caused a refugee problem because the Germans in Polish-occupied Westprussia fled by the tens of thousands from Polish Terror. Why did Britain help the TERRORIST? Shows how they lie.
"Germans in Polish-occupied Westprussia fled by the tens of thousands from Polish Terror."
What a audacity. Start of the world's history was not in the twentieth century. All land of the Second Republic was land of First Republic, which vicitm of the Kingdom of Prussia. The real name of this place is the Royal Prussia.
@AZsaturn hahaha, this coming from Polish person, whose history starts in 1939. I have not said history of Westprussia starts in 20th century, you idiot.
Westprussia was German land since MIDDLE AGES. You Poles stole it, and Prussians took it back. Prussia never was Polish land, you stole it, just like you stole Danzig and Silesia.
You can find one million people unhappy with the restoration of the rightful ruler of this place. I find tens of millions who would be unhappy if hypothetical the Second Republic was the same borders as Congress Poland.
Remember you Polish communists are nothing but Red Fascists, you are same thing, only painted with red colour.
So please stop making fun of the victims of the Dresden-Holocaust, you silly fascist Pole. You dont want me to make fun of victims of Warsaw bombing, do you? Maybe they died of German leaflets.....lol
@AZsaturn Danzig is a German city,you Poles robbed a whole city, this was the reason for the war. Today you still live in the stolen city, and you live in stolen houses. You will always feel bad in this city, you will never feel at home, because spirits of true Danzigers will forever live in the buildings. You are not true Danziger, your family has no roots in Danzig but comes from region far away.
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@spotswood4444 Coventry was bombed BACK, after YOU started. You are guilty of starting the war, you attacked Germany first. Read history. Now fuck off, Moron, and put some Africans on BRITISH DEATH SHIPS, together with your dirty British Grandfather, who was a RAF-Coward machinegunning children.
Of course. British bombers filled with propaganda leaflets, murdered millions. These propaganda leaflets were spread with deadly poison. British mistaken. There was no war in Poland before September 3. Only the fun in paintball. But some bonehead beads loaded with red paint. It causes confusion.
have you ever heard, that the polish army with the general Pisulski attacked and invaded Germany in the years 20ies. In east Prusse and Pomerany 20'000 "Volkdeutsche"(the germans born in Polen ) were killed allthough they were civilians. The german minority was the victimes of the Polen in the History. That explain what happended during the war but it not justifie the violence against innocent civilians.
@AZsaturn Not leaflets, but bombs, And not filled with poison, but with White Phosphorous. Learn history, you foolish communist person.
And who spoke about "war in Poland", you fool? You Poles think your ridiculous backward country was centre of the world. But there was war in Germany in the 1920ies, and oppression of millions of people in the Saarland, Rhineland, Sudetenland, Danzig, Westprussia. Yes i know, you support Genocide of Danzig people. Because today you live in their houses.
@AZsaturn You are silly communist person, you try to whitewash Polish and Soviet crimes.
Poland is one of the main guilty countries of World war two. Dictator Pilsudski tried to attack Germany three times in the 1930ies together with France - but the French refused. Thats why this coward did not attack Germany, he was too afraid to do it on his own.
If Poland had not invaded Germany in 1919 and in 1920, and robbed German land and German cities, the war would not have happened.
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@spotswood4444 How pathetic to be British! hahaha i cannot understand how anyone can by proud of killing screaming Children in a FIRESTORM, like your dirty Grandfather did. Are you sick? you must be, because all british people are sick and criminals.
"I remind you that if Hitler had not invaded Poland in 1939, not a single bomb would have dropped on Germany." LOL i remind you, that the Polish-German conflict was none of your business, fuckhead. YOU started the war, now fuck of and live with your guilt.
It was not his business? Do you know what is the idea of an alliance? When hyphotetical alliance, which one billion states, the conflict of one member of the alliance, is the conflict all the other members of the alliance.
@spotswood4444 May i remind you that your Ally Dictator Stalin invaded Poland too. Only 14 days later. So where was your "help" for Poland? Proves that "helping Poland" was a British LIE, a pretext to destroy Germany. And why did you not help the German refugees in the 1930ies? Poland was not innocent, you moron, they occupied german land and massacred German families in their homes. Why didnt you help THEM? Why did you help the Polish rogue state?
@spotswood4444 And i remind you that Poland was not your friend, but your tool to destroy Germany. Great "friend", to be sold to the communist dictatorship by Churchill.
I think he who has such "friends" as the British, wont need enemies any more,. hahaha,
By the way, Coventry was 500 people, dont give me your stupid British lies. I did not include London, you moron. You Britishers started bombing children and women in German cities, and then you complain about being bombed back. Pathetic.
@spotswood4444 and you seriously do not compare the 500 in Coventry to the 250 000 killed in Dresden in only one night, do you?
Yes i know, you Britishers try to whitewash your Phosphorous-Holocausts by lying about the number. At the time of Churchill's wicked attack on the undefended city, there were over 500 000 refugees in the centre of the Firestorm. From a Firestorm there is no escape, they all perished in your wicked British Firestorm, children, women, babies, the elderly.
@spotswood4444 What cowards you Britishers are, killing unarmed children and women in a city that has no anti-aircraft. Have the "bad" Germans hit undefended English cities? Their main target was Coventry, legitimate military target because it was centre of the British war machine. But Dresden was a civilian target, you deliberately murderded children and women , you British pigs.
Oh, and stuff your silly "poor Jews"-shit up your arse, mate LOL Deal with your own British crimes first.
RAF had to take care that the number of victims of the bombing was the same as victims of the Luftwaffe? Since you're so well read, tell me how many were killed between Dresden and capitulation. Their life could survive. The national socialist wasted sacrifice.
Es gibt über 5 000 Holocaust-Denkmale in der Welt, die allesamt an die NS-Zeit erinnern und uns mahnen sollen. Aber keines dient dazu, unsere eigenen Verluste zu betrauern...
Denn auch an uns ist ein Holocaust verübt worden . . .
ProLorrbass888 2 months ago
@ProLorrbass888
ja du hast leider recht. Eine Archive zeigte, dass die GB Regierung trieb Frankreich den Krieg Deutschland erklärt. Sie wussten Deutschland so wohl Fr.wurden dadurch ruiniert. So GB wurden von 2 Kompetitoren befreit. Churchill war 1/2 american, jude und freimaurer. Er hat die Unterjochung des Europas ermöglich. Er hat nicht begriffen, dass nicht nur D. den Krieg verlochen hat sondern das ganzes Abenland.
hagalruno 2 months ago
@ProLorrbass888
Die Deutsche leiden am schlimmsten unter die Folge des Krieges.
Die Juden haben sich als Màrtyren ausgespielt und haben allen Millarden erpresst *als Entschàdigung*-Dank Ihrer Opfer haben sie die Welt bewegt, bis sie annehmen, die begründung eines judischen Staat in Palestin. Dank der Medien haben sie "einen Schuldkomplex" bei den Europàer entwickelt.
Die Deutsche waren die wahren Opfer des Krieges, weil sie immer noch unter die Folgen leiden.
hagalruno 2 months ago
@hagalruno erstmal vielen Dank das du die Wahrheit sagst.Bitte lese unbedingt das Buch "Holocaust-Industrie" ,es hat ein gerechter Jude mit Namen Norman G. Finkelstein geschrieben.Es sind knallharte Fakten(nicht nur von ihm).Er ist ein New Yorker Politologen,ein Jude dessen Eltern selbst in Ausschwitz waren u.s.w.,er ist also kein Holocaust-Leugner.Dieses Buch öffnet vielen die Augen,die Opfer des Holocaust,Deutsche,alle werden belogen.es geht um Geld und um Politik.
ProLorrbass888 2 months ago
der tag wird kommen,da recht sich nicht das volk,sondern die natur,sie wird siegen über alle feigen menschlichen vergehen jeglicher form !!!
afrikakorp47 2 months ago
Könnte jemand mir sagen wer diese Sendung gemacht hat und welche Quellen (zum Beispiel für die genannte Zahlen) benutzt wurden?
Jeroentanesy 4 months ago
Ist Teil 6 nicht mehr auf YouTube?
Jeroentanesy 4 months ago
@Jeroentanesy Teil 3 vermisse ich auch. sehr bedauerlich.
konrad543212 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
The arguments over the rights and wrongs will continue forever .As will the reasons. But no matter what or why lots of innocent women and children and old people died a horrible death in what must have been beyond belief . We can apologise and say sorry, but it should never have happened, but it will never erase from the memory or change the history of that night. May those who suffered rest in peace
ronaldrobin 8 months ago 4
@ronaldrobin
thank you for your comment.
I'm glad to read sensible comment -
I would like that more visitors on my channel would write this kind of intelligent and respectfull comment
hagalruno 8 months ago
@hagalruno I was born in 1942 in Bristol England at the time of my birth the German Luftwaffe were bombing the aeroplane works just a short distance from the hospital. But as you can see I survived and of course there were other air raids as well we went through. I cant ever recall any words of hatred being said about the Germans in my home even though at some stage we had some near misses. cont.....
ronaldrobin 8 months ago
@ronaldrobin although my relatives, my teacher, were never hurt by German, because they did not know the war. They taught me to hate the Germans.
This hatred arises from the propaganda anti German.
But I, I was not contaminated by their hatred because I could not believe that all the Germans were more criminal than the other belligerent parties.
The Allies committed crimes against humanity during the war but were never pursued because they were the winners.
hagalruno 8 months ago
@hagalruno Well said. I wasn’t told in school that we'd already bombed ALL major cities by '44, or that we flattened undefended german cities in '45. I was told the myth that Dresden was Tit for Tat for Coventry, but in1940 it had evacuation warnings. Undefended Dresden schools, hospitals, zoo, churches & 2 cathedrals were targeted-10000 degrees friestorms recumbusted for DAYS AFTER! Thousands of bodies were buried in mass graves for hygiene reasons. NO city in England suffered like this.
helenheather 7 months ago
@helenheather
thank you for your comment.
about Coventry. Thanks to 2 scientistes from Polen, they succeded to crac the enigma code that's why Churchilll knew that the Luftwaffe (the German's planes ) will attact Coventry.
Churchill prefered to let die the civilans to avoid that the Germans lern, the enemis discovered the enigma's code.
sorry for my english
74edelweiss74 7 months ago
@74edelweiss74 Ihr Englisch ist bestimmt viel besser als mein Deutsch. Viele Leute in England denken wie ich, aber die meisten gutherzige Volk 'surfen' Youtube nicht!
helenheather 7 months ago
@helenheather
meine Muttersprache ist eigentlich franzosich und obwohl ich schon gut deutsch kann, leide ich an Lücke.
Wenn du dich für Geschichte interressierst. empfehle ich dir das Buch von dem Brittischen Sire Liddel Hart.
History of the 2.WW und das Buch von Robert Lilly : Taken by Force: Rape and American GIs in Europe during WWII .
Ein Repportage darüber existiert in Franz. und warscheinlich auch in english.
hagalruno 7 months ago
@hagalruno Danke. Ich werde die buche finden und lesen . Entschuldige Mich bitte fur die lange weile bevor ich antwortete. Grüße von England. ich reise sehr gerne in Deutschland und in Frankreich auch, aber mein Französich ist nicht so gut wie dein Deutsch.
helenheather 4 months ago
@74edelweiss74 (1)
"They succeded to crac the enigma code that's why Churchilll knew that the Luftwaffe (the German's planes ) will attact Coventry".
Your English is good, my friend, but I'm afraid that claim is a myth, which "credits Enigma intelligence with far more than it was providing at the time...The intelligence which was available to Churchill on the 14th...convinced him that London was the target..Churchill was actually scanning the skies impatiently from the roof..."
Cont'd
MSM4U2POM 6 months ago
@MSM4U2POM
2 polen succeded to crack the Enigma code. that's why Churchill knew, that the German Luftwaffe will attack Coventry. Read the official Archive, it prove it.
About the german civians and POW in the soviet union, they were not better treated then the jews in concentration camp. They staved, and died of seekness. the Father of a friend were a pow. He told me, the german were slave by the russian. They killed all the men, who were not more able to work any more.
hagalruno 6 months ago
@hagalruno
"Read the official archive" etc.
Budiansky DID read the official archive, mate, and that's how he knew the story is false! "Enigma decrypts did give advance warning of A planned attack, but the targets mentioned were in London and the Farnborough-Maidenhead-Reading area about 40 miles west of the capital, and the date of the operation was given as November 15".
Stephen Budiansky, 'Battle of Wits', pp182.
MSM4U2POM 6 months ago
@hagalruno
The claim first appeared in F.W.Winterbotham's book "The Ultra Secret" in 1974. Several historians and primary sources have rejected it completely, including R.V.Jones, Peter Calvocoressi, and David Hunt. Jones writes that "Enigma signals to the X-beam stations were not broken in time," and that he [Churchill] was unaware that Coventry was the intended target".
RV Jones, 'Most secret war', pp149.
Apologies, but I think you will find this one is an old wives' tale.
MSM4U2POM 6 months ago
@MSM4U2POM
Are you sure you quoted completely?
robinhood48 2 months ago
@robinhood48
"Are you sure you quoted completely"?
What are you referring to, Robin, Budiansky or Jones? I have the Budiansky book with me, but I have lent Jones' book to a friend. I can quote the full Budiansky account, if you wish.
Happy to oblige, as always.
MSM4U2POM 2 months ago
@MSM4U2POM
My remark referred to Jones and his book "Streng geheim", where he gives a description of what happened concerning "Mondscheinsonate".
I think this can wait a while until you have access to your source. Never lend a book!
Anyway, in the main I was in need to have a conversation with one of the few well educated Brits on YT. So I can improve my English and my manners same time.
robinhood48 2 months ago
@robinhood48
"Never lend a book!".
Sound advice, my dear fellow! And I assure you, your English and your manners are always impeccable.
It may be some time before I can retrieve the book, because of the disruption caused by the Christmas period, but as soon as I have it in my hands, I shall contact you again.
And if I do not speak to you before then, a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your family, Good Sir.
MSM4U2POM 2 months ago
@hagalruno
DeWeerd's "Churchill, Coventry and ULTRA" gives a detailed but easy to follow explaination of how and why Winterbotham's story is wrong; P.S.Miler-Barry does the same in Hinsley & Stripp's 'Codebreakers', pp 94-95.
There are simply too many accounts from both primary sources and professional historians which refute the story, that it cannot be taken seriously. Sorry to disappoint you.
MSM4U2POM 6 months ago
@74edelweiss74 (2)
"...of the Air Ministry...when the attack on Coventry began 100 miles away".
Source: Stephen Budiansky, 'Battle of Wits', pp 181-2.
Dresden has been the subject of much speculation, propaganda and downright lies, and it is always necessary to treat stories such as this one with caution.
MSM4U2POM 6 months ago
@MSM4U2POM
I've been in Dreden and I talked with the survivor of the bombing. I belive more what they told me then what I read in the schoolsbooks.
a swiss woman was in Dresden during the ww2 and at the arrival of the red army. she was raped by the Russian. They caught the civilian and sent them in workcamp in UdSSR. She came back 5 year after the war !
She told me the one that couldn't work ani more were killed ! An other prisonner told me the same thing.
they had no reason to lie!
74edelweiss74 6 months ago
@hagalruno part 2...During the war censorship played a big part in morale and although the mention of the air raids we we doing in Germany were mentioned, I doubt the full horror of what was taking place would have been allowed to be printed or broadcast to the population of Britain. From my own feelings I always feel sad and downhearted when I see all the death and destruction we created by our bombing raids. My family like any German family would have been striving to survive..
ronaldrobin 8 months ago
@ronaldrobin Thank you for writing that comment and may Almighty God bless you. When I was 5 years old in 1945 we moved from Northern Germany to Dresden to escape Russian occupation. I am thankful to God we arrived late. I still have vivid memories of that horrible smoldering place.
frbjoernLA 2 months ago
THANKS OUR BOMBER HARRIS
TheYellowbellyfins 9 months ago
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Ha Ha Ha
yogifalkmybitch 10 months ago
@yogifalkmybitch
your stupid comment shows the mediocrity of level. A real human wouldn't be pleased with the death of a human been.
hagalruno 11 months ago
@hagalruno Burn
yogifalkmybitch 10 months ago
Ich bin kein NAZI, nur Realist genug, um zu sehen was die Wahrheit ist. Was wollt ihr ganzen Zuwanderer eigendlich hier. Geht doch zurück in eure Länder und baut diese auf, anstatt in unsrem zu schmarotzen. Und nun los, prügelt ruhig verbal auf mich ein, schlimmer als es jetzt schon in der EU und Deutschland ist, kanns kaum noch werden. Ich bin mir sicher die EU wird eines Tages an ihren eigenen Schwächen in sich zusammenbrechen und dann wird daß pure Chaos regieren. Na dann gute Nacht Europa !!
metalonroad 1 year ago
Deutschland ist schon lange nicht mehr mein Land. Heute wird man als Einheimischer von den eigenen Politikern verraten und verkauft und den Zuwanderern, bläßt man puren Zucker in den Arsch. Deutschland, schäm dich, du bist eine Schande für deine eigenen Kinder. :-(((
metalonroad 1 year ago
@metalonroad ganz deiner meinung. wer irgendetwas sagt, wird sofort mit der nazikeule plattgemacht und ruhiggestellt
DO18D3 1 year ago
und wer hat es verlangt...die SCHEIß RUSSEN...damit sie ungehindert weiter richtung westen marschieren konnten...!!!
die waren noch viel schlimmer als hitler...!!!
aber das wird heut zu tage tod geschwiegen...!!!
verantwortlich für den krieg,waren die franzosen und britten,wärend deutschland nach dem 1.weltkrieg abgrüstet hat,haben die aufgerüstet...
anfragen aus deutschland,wegen den aufrüstungen wurden NIE beantwortet oder erklärt...
mahony1979 1 year ago
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@krautkiller1969 Churchill ist schuld - und alle Englander sind ihm gefolgt in den Krieg.
Elberiver11 1 year ago
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@krautkiller1969 wer ist selber schuld. Die Kinder und Frauen? Was haben sie getan?
Elberiver11 1 year ago
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@krautkiller1969 die in England gelten als Kriegsverbrechen. Die anderen Frauen und Kinder in Japan und Deutschland gelten nicht als Kriegsverbrechen.
Note that only 40 000 were killed in England, only. But over 1 Million children and women were kileld in German and Japanese cities like Dresden und Hiroshima. And you are telling me these were no crimes?
The criminal never calls his own action crimes....
Elberiver11 1 year ago
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"selber schuld.und die tote englische frauen und kinder?"
For your information, guys: blockthehood, mutley0777, krautkiller1969, pangloss4bullshit and LordGodOfMercy are the one and the same person.And there are ca. 20 clone accounts he uses here for control purpose. "Herding" people towards political correctness.
Anybody who disagrees with this clone master is a "Nazi Apologist". He puts it very clear.
TheMrPangloss 1 year ago
@TheMrPangloss
I found a Churchill's texte that prouve what you wrote:
"Das müssen sich darüber klar sein, dass dieser Krieg nicht gegen Hitler oder den Nationalsozialismus geht, sondern gegen die Kraft des deutsches Volkes, die man für immer zerschlagen will, gleichgültig ob sie in den Händen Hitlers oder eines Jesuitenpaters liegt"
(Kleist, Perter "Auch du warst dabei" Heidelberg, 1952. S.370 und Emrys Hughes, Winston Churchill -His Career in War an Peace, S. 145 )
hagalruno 1 year ago 2
Das ist das erste Mal, dass ich davon höre, dass die Amerikaner auch mitdrinnen hängen.
Ohanko1 1 year ago
35.000 ist ein WITZ! Die 135.000 der Amis akzeptiere ich noch eher.. Aber egal wieviele Hunderttausende es waren, es waren Hunderttausende zu viel..
Ranja86 1 year ago
I can add that Churchill's mother was jewish, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's father also (original name was Rosenfeldt) and that Joseph Stalin was a jew.
Make your own conclusions. I dislike Zionism so much.
What was done to Dresden was a HOLOCAUST!
Sieg Heil!
Marleneagnes 1 year ago
@Marleneagnes The ONLY person to blame, is HITLER.
spotswood4444 1 year ago
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@spotswood4444 "The ONLY person to blame, is HITLER."
No, the Anglo-U.S. circles who planned how to ruin Europe, including Germany, Austria, Turkey and Russia, to not join their pools of resources. That begun in the 1890s and Hitler was only a puppet hired by the Anglo-U.S. Plutokrats to do the dirty work for them. The targets were mainly Germanny and Russia instigated against each other to kill as many Germans and Russians as possible.
TheMrPangloss 1 year ago
@TheMrPangloss
thank you for your commentar. could you sent me please informations about the u.s + G.B. plan please. It could help my research concerning the lies about the WW2 and the crimes of Alliees against Germany and other land.
hagalruno 1 year ago
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@hagalruno Well there are so many of them. I will list some of the most imporant works which you should read.
(1) "Human Smoke" by Nicholson Baker - a novel but based on historical sources.
(2) "Germania Delenda" articles in certain British political magazines im the 1890s
(3) Giacomo Preparata "Conjuring Hitler" - his thesis is that the greatest fear in Britain before ww1 were close Russo-German terms,
(4) Anthony Sutton's works on the Bolsheviks and Nazis dealing with the NY Wall Street.
& c.
TheMrPangloss 1 year ago
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@TheMrPangloss I found a speech that would interest you: Winston Churchill in March 1936 in the House of Commons, in a NON-PUBLIC speech:
"It has been English tradition for over 400 years to always fight the strongest power on the continent, regardless of its rulers, regardless whether it be Spain, France, or Germany or the Hitler regime".
He clearly says that the enemy is not the Hitler-regime, but GERMANY. And he adds, that it could easily be France, if France was stronger.
Elberiver11 1 year ago
@Elberiver11
"He clearly says that the enemy is not the Hitler-regime, but GERMANY."
First. This is your private interpretation.
Second. Not "Germany" but Reich. Germany and Reich aren't the same. Because: Germany - good guys. Reich - bad guys.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
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@TheMrPangloss This is just one of countless proves that the Allies never fought HITLER, but the WHOlE GERMAN PEOPLE.
Hitler did not play a role - that is why, as you always correctly repeat, they financed him. The Jews did not matter at all - Anne Frank and her family was DENIED access to the USA, they had applied for asylum. The British and Americans have a big mouth about "saving the Jews", but the Allies's intention was nothing of that kind.
Elberiver11 1 year ago
@Elberiver11
Funny that Anne Frank has the same surname as Hans Frank.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
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@hagalruno Then look at the map of Europe before ww1 and after ww2. You will see the difference.
(1) Before the ww1 there was a number of greater powers in Europe and they began to prosper under the industrial growth.
(2) After ww2 Europe was mostly under the iron boot of the Soviet, except the western democracies which were made vassals of the Anglo-U.S. Empire.
The nuclear arms race was a means to loot Eastern Europe.
TheMrPangloss 1 year ago
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@spotswood4444 No. The ONLY persons to blame for the 1 Million killed in German and Japanese cities, is Churchill, Harris and Roossevelt..
Compare that to the few hundreds in coventry and London! ONE MILLION., murdered by grinning wicked RAF-pilots and ugly Americans! And today, they lie about it and they insult the children and women's graves they burnt to ashes....fucking pathetic. Be ashamed to stem from a country that wrote a history of fraud and cover-up.
Elberiver11 1 year ago
@Elberiver11
Only a few hundred in Coventry and London, you need educating my friend. Many tens of thousands were murdered by the Luftwaffe. I remind you that Germany invaded our friends in Poland, and Belgium, and Holland etc, this we will not allow. And as for Churchill and Harris, and Roosevelt, I remind you that if Hitler had not invaded Poland in 1939, not a single bomb would have dropped on Germany. Oh and what about the 6 million Jews that were exterminated in your final solution?
spotswood4444 1 year ago
@spotswood4444 Churchill knew that the Germans will attack Coventry but he didn't evacuate the civilians to avoid that the German knew, the GB descovered the enigmasecret.
The invasion of the Belgien: France too wanted to invade this Land to attack Germany but the Germans knew it and were there earlier. It was the France's duty to protect Poland against the German and the red Army.
But the Fr. didn't declare the war to the soviets who attacked their Alliee. Why?
hagalruno 1 year ago
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@hagalruno Because the "help" for Poland was a pretext, Britain never aimed to help Poland.
Also, we must ask the British: Why did they not help GERMANY against Poland? WW II was clearly triggered over the Danzig question and the Westprussia-question (Corridor-Problem), created by the British in 1919. This caused a refugee problem because the Germans in Polish-occupied Westprussia fled by the tens of thousands from Polish Terror. Why did Britain help the TERRORIST? Shows how they lie.
Elberiver11 1 year ago
@Elberiver11
"Germans in Polish-occupied Westprussia fled by the tens of thousands from Polish Terror."
What a audacity. Start of the world's history was not in the twentieth century. All land of the Second Republic was land of First Republic, which vicitm of the Kingdom of Prussia. The real name of this place is the Royal Prussia.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn hahaha, this coming from Polish person, whose history starts in 1939. I have not said history of Westprussia starts in 20th century, you idiot.
Westprussia was German land since MIDDLE AGES. You Poles stole it, and Prussians took it back. Prussia never was Polish land, you stole it, just like you stole Danzig and Silesia.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
@Elberiver11
You can find one million people unhappy with the restoration of the rightful ruler of this place. I find tens of millions who would be unhappy if hypothetical the Second Republic was the same borders as Congress Poland.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn
Remember you Polish communists are nothing but Red Fascists, you are same thing, only painted with red colour.
So please stop making fun of the victims of the Dresden-Holocaust, you silly fascist Pole. You dont want me to make fun of victims of Warsaw bombing, do you? Maybe they died of German leaflets.....lol
Elberiver11 10 months ago
@AZsaturn Danzig is a German city,you Poles robbed a whole city, this was the reason for the war. Today you still live in the stolen city, and you live in stolen houses. You will always feel bad in this city, you will never feel at home, because spirits of true Danzigers will forever live in the buildings. You are not true Danziger, your family has no roots in Danzig but comes from region far away.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
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@spotswood4444 Coventry was bombed BACK, after YOU started. You are guilty of starting the war, you attacked Germany first. Read history. Now fuck off, Moron, and put some Africans on BRITISH DEATH SHIPS, together with your dirty British Grandfather, who was a RAF-Coward machinegunning children.
Elberiver11 1 year ago
@Elberiver11
"Coventry was bombed BACK, after YOU started."
Of course. British bombers filled with propaganda leaflets, murdered millions. These propaganda leaflets were spread with deadly poison. British mistaken. There was no war in Poland before September 3. Only the fun in paintball. But some bonehead beads loaded with red paint. It causes confusion.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn
have you ever heard, that the polish army with the general Pisulski attacked and invaded Germany in the years 20ies. In east Prusse and Pomerany 20'000 "Volkdeutsche"(the germans born in Polen ) were killed allthough they were civilians. The german minority was the victimes of the Polen in the History. That explain what happended during the war but it not justifie the violence against innocent civilians.
hagalruno 1 year ago
@AZsaturn Not leaflets, but bombs, And not filled with poison, but with White Phosphorous. Learn history, you foolish communist person.
And who spoke about "war in Poland", you fool? You Poles think your ridiculous backward country was centre of the world. But there was war in Germany in the 1920ies, and oppression of millions of people in the Saarland, Rhineland, Sudetenland, Danzig, Westprussia. Yes i know, you support Genocide of Danzig people. Because today you live in their houses.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
@AZsaturn You are silly communist person, you try to whitewash Polish and Soviet crimes.
Poland is one of the main guilty countries of World war two. Dictator Pilsudski tried to attack Germany three times in the 1930ies together with France - but the French refused. Thats why this coward did not attack Germany, he was too afraid to do it on his own.
If Poland had not invaded Germany in 1919 and in 1920, and robbed German land and German cities, the war would not have happened.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
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@spotswood4444 How pathetic to be British! hahaha i cannot understand how anyone can by proud of killing screaming Children in a FIRESTORM, like your dirty Grandfather did. Are you sick? you must be, because all british people are sick and criminals.
Elberiver11 1 year ago
"I remind you that if Hitler had not invaded Poland in 1939, not a single bomb would have dropped on Germany." LOL i remind you, that the Polish-German conflict was none of your business, fuckhead. YOU started the war, now fuck of and live with your guilt.
Elberiver11 1 year ago
@Elberiver11
It was not his business? Do you know what is the idea of an alliance? When hyphotetical alliance, which one billion states, the conflict of one member of the alliance, is the conflict all the other members of the alliance.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
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@spotswood4444 May i remind you that your Ally Dictator Stalin invaded Poland too. Only 14 days later. So where was your "help" for Poland? Proves that "helping Poland" was a British LIE, a pretext to destroy Germany. And why did you not help the German refugees in the 1930ies? Poland was not innocent, you moron, they occupied german land and massacred German families in their homes. Why didnt you help THEM? Why did you help the Polish rogue state?
And what about YOU invading Ireland?
Elberiver11 1 year ago
@spotswood4444 And i remind you that Poland was not your friend, but your tool to destroy Germany. Great "friend", to be sold to the communist dictatorship by Churchill.
I think he who has such "friends" as the British, wont need enemies any more,. hahaha,
By the way, Coventry was 500 people, dont give me your stupid British lies. I did not include London, you moron. You Britishers started bombing children and women in German cities, and then you complain about being bombed back. Pathetic.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
@spotswood4444 and you seriously do not compare the 500 in Coventry to the 250 000 killed in Dresden in only one night, do you?
Yes i know, you Britishers try to whitewash your Phosphorous-Holocausts by lying about the number. At the time of Churchill's wicked attack on the undefended city, there were over 500 000 refugees in the centre of the Firestorm. From a Firestorm there is no escape, they all perished in your wicked British Firestorm, children, women, babies, the elderly.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
@spotswood4444 What cowards you Britishers are, killing unarmed children and women in a city that has no anti-aircraft. Have the "bad" Germans hit undefended English cities? Their main target was Coventry, legitimate military target because it was centre of the British war machine. But Dresden was a civilian target, you deliberately murderded children and women , you British pigs.
Oh, and stuff your silly "poor Jews"-shit up your arse, mate LOL Deal with your own British crimes first.
Elberiver11 10 months ago
@Elberiver11
RAF had to take care that the number of victims of the bombing was the same as victims of the Luftwaffe? Since you're so well read, tell me how many were killed between Dresden and capitulation. Their life could survive. The national socialist wasted sacrifice.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn stupid Polish communist.
Elberiver11 10 months ago