i dont get why canadians shit on the americans for their healthcare so much. who care what they do in the US? its not your country. Lots of countries dont have universal healthcare
@willythewildwino The US healthcare industry employs people to attack the Canadian Healthcare system in the press. We also abhor the fact that so many of our American brothers and sisters die because they don't have the healthcare that we have.
@dmmaggi what about india? or china? or brazil? theres plenty of countries with way worse healthcare systems than the one in the Us, why not focus on thise? what is it with canadians and there obsession with the USA? its childish
@willythewildwino Why not those countries? Because those countries politicians, pundits, and media outlets etc. don't go on their countries' tv stations and tell lies about our healthcare system to further their own agenda or ideology. That's why. Did you ever ask yourself why there was even a need to make this video to begin with?
@MadHabber93 the need to make this video was Michael Moores need to make millions of dollars. he is a multi millionaire, not some benevolent, loving guru sent from heaven to save America
@willythewildwino Moore has nothing to do with my comment. You complained about our obsession with the U.S. when its the exact opposite. Its the American right wing, neo conservative media ie Fox News' obession to lie and mislead about Canada's healthcare system to support their position. We didn't bring ourselves into your healthcare debate, you brought us.
anybody waiting less than an hour? i call bullshit. sorry, but that doesnt happen, the clocks in that room are slow. you have to call an ambulance to get any attention at all.
I dont know who those lucky pricks are in this hospital, but every time i go to the hospital its a 6 hour wait at least. Oh and by the way, i havent had a family doctor since he retired 5 years ago. the canadian system is just as fucked up as the US.! Corporations run the world, people! Not governments!
@maluorno its ppl like u that clog up the system..if u don't have a GP go and get one so u don't waste other peoples time while u wait in the ER to get checked out for something as trivial as a headache
@maluorno right so ur broken hand vs someone coming in with a stroke..wonder who's gonna see the doc first..if ud rather pay for ur health care go to the states otherwise quit complaining.. the 6 hrs spent in the ER is much less than the time ud take to pay off the bills figure it out
@brennan727 - you idiot.....who says i would rather pay ? My small town does not have people coming in with a stroke left and right. What I'm saying is that neither system is perfect and the powers that be put dollars first before peoples' well-being. Don't tell me where to go, either. I'm quite happy where I am.
@MadHabber93 what the fuck??? you prefer conservative party? war? pollution? money over morality? I dont understand the point of your comment... you problably never came in quebec and surely doesn't understand politic.
@MrJacobpoliquin I've been to Quebec many times, hence my nickname on here. I'll be back in February. I know the politics of Quebec, and its one of the most highly taxed, over programmed province in Canada. YOu are more left wing than most of the country and you are paying for it.
And yes, I like the Conservative party. I'm for fiscal balance, fair taxes, proper and balanced social programmes. Not bloated gov't like in Quebec.
here found some statistic "Il a dénoncé le fait que le nombre de patients qui ont attendu plus de 48 heures sur civière a augmenté de 1614 % entre 2003 et 2010, passant de 169 à 2897 annuellement, comparativement à 19 % pour l'ensemble du Québec."
so people who wait 48+hours went up to 1614% from 2003 to 2010, from 169 person to 2897!!!!!! thatys ALOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
dude , im reading report as we talk right now, too bad i cant post links on youtube, i have one now , 8 days he wait in the emergency room , jusrt type "attente a lurgence"
or "waiting at emergency room canada" youll have 10 pages depicting the poor health care we have and the months we have to wait to have an operation or transplant
@mtlchronix Transplant wait times have everything to do with a donor being available and nothing to do with the system. I can also show you an Ontario report where average wait times are less than 2 hours. Less than 6 minutes for urgent cases. You are talking just Quebec.
@mtlchronix And what about the fact that the problem is not the hospitals and the healthcare system but only because people are getting older and sicker because of the way of life?? It's the same thing (even worse) in US but they cannot afford to go to hospital for the large majority, and the insurrance companies always find an excuse to not give the money.We have the same system as in France and UK, but the difference is that their way of life make them healthier than north american
@mtlchronix The average specialist are now making the same or more now in Canada. And your uncle is the exception, not the norm. My brother in law has his thyroid tumor removed in less than 3 weeks. You cannot damn an entire system over onc anecdotal story.
@mtlchronix More docs are returning to Canada, in particular specialists, for nearly the last decade. Many specialists in Canada are making $500K+ here as well. Many of them are my clients.
@MadHabber93 they are NOT returning at all, the minister is acctually passing a bill for the specialist to be able to win more so they dont run away, and they been giving 3000$ bonus to nurse's too (my wife a nurse with a BAC)
LOL this video is BS , im living in quebc canada and the health care is fucked up you wait 20 hours to get stitchs...free yes...but you have to wait, my step father has a tumor , he has been waiting for 6 month now for a fuckign space at the hospital because the only fucking specialist is too buysy giving conference in europe....so fuck off mr moore
The bottom line is that Canadians, along with people who live in other Western nations with universal, tax-payer funded healthcare, live, on average, 4-5 years longer than Americans do. Says a lot.
In Canada as well as where I live, in Sweden, the waiting list for organ transplants is up at almost a decade. People die in line in Sweden waiting for cancer treatment, because the government hospitals do not fight to give people good healthcare as a profit-driven, private hospital would. Moore is a liar and you are truly the shepherd's flock if you believe him. Sicko is nothing but moronic propaganda.
@DrStrangebomb1993 No, not many Canadians go south for care. Its a myth perpetuated by the AMerican right wing. Google the study Phantoms in the SNow, which concluded that Canadians going south for care amounts to a trickle and is a myth. While 750,000 Americans went abroad for care they couldn't afford at home in 2007, with that number predicted to go into the Millions this past year.
@MadHabber93 Of course they go abroad, but they go abroad to other market economy, private healthcare nations where it's cheaper. Do you think they all go to the neat propaganda hospital in Cuba like in Sicko? If it's an American myth, how come Canadian doctor David Gratzer published a book detailing the inhuman, long lines in the Canadian NHS, how people die waiting for treatment? Google it friend, it's called "The Cure - how capitalism can save healthcare".
@DrStrangebomb1993 David Gratzer is a cherry picking liar, that represents the Manhattan Institute, a heavy right wing rag out of the U.S. He misleads, cherry picks, and LIES. He writes that yet ignores the MILLIONS of Americans that simply go without care, the countless bankruptcies, and the healthcare outcomes showing that Canada has equivalent or better outcomes than the U.S.
@MadHabber93 *Sigh* can't you socialists ever debate without resorting to insults? Gratzer is an intelligent man, Moore didn't even complete his education and claims he's the harbinger of truth? Don't make me laugh. Just for your info, I live in Sweden and the problem here's the same as in Canada. Granted, recent conservative reforms are making the situation ever so better, but the queues for cancer treatment are still almost as long as during the socialist reign of terror.
@DrStrangebomb1993 Not to mention, there isn't one study to support the bullshit that we die waiting for treatment. We wait for elective procedures like hip replacement, not needed treatment like heart bypass or cancer care.
And he never explains how for profit insurance can 'save healthcare', since insurance companies put all of NOTHING back into the system.
@MadHabber93 Actually, there is - like I mentioned, David Gratzer has quite a few things to say about that. Furthermore, the cold heart fact about insurance is that people pay premiums into a pool which pays for those that do get sick. Per the rules of economics, some people will try to freeload on this and the insurance companies have a valid reason to check thoroughly before granting claims. Still, refusal levels are usually below 5%. Get your facts straight, man.
@DrStrangebomb1993 Get my facts straight? You are pulling the refusal level from a b.s. report provided by, wait for it, the insurance industry of the U.S. When the California nurses body researched it, as insurance companies have to publish the REAL numbers there by law, it was revealed it went as high as 40% denial rates. And that's for those WITH inusurance. Millions in The States simply can't afford it. Gratzer's intelligence just makes him a better Liar. I work in the industry, I know.
@DrStrangebomb1993 Why do think some wait times for those WITH insurance in the U.S. 'might' be shorter?? Because they leave MILLONS out of the queue to begin with. And although you are an intelligent 17 year old, your lack of experience in the real world and reality of economics in the real world once you leave Mommy and Daddy's nest is glaring. Referencing a liar like Gratzer won't change the truth. Check out the Youtube video where the U.S. congressman owns his ass.
@DrStrangebomb1993 And for you trying to label me a socialist is laughable at best. I've voted conservative the last 3 Federal elections and 3 Provincial elections. The vast majority of Canadian conservatives fully support Universal Healthcare. Why? Because we live beside a country that spends 40% more on healthcare, covering FAR less people, with no better outcomes. As a fiscal Conservative, I want a system that costs less and serves everyone.
@DrStrangebomb1993 Du borde kanske skaffa dig lite mer bakrundsinfo innan du börjar spy ut lögner. Läs på om hur vårat system funkar kontra Kanadas, så kanske skulle folk ta dig mer på allvar.
Inte konstigt att moderaterna har makten i Sverige när det finns folk som du.
The part that pissed me off is "oh, we complain" and Moore chimes in "right, you're canadian", as if he somehow is making a statement. lol what the fuck, moore? that's just retarded
umm CANADIANS WE PAY its called TAXES but its not as much as the insurance companies charge in the U.S and if your poor its good so i think its benefits for the community are good people in the states are just to greedy
why whenever Michael Moore goes to canada he goes to the whitest and smallest canadian town. I mean go to Toronto, Calgary, Montreal or Vancouver and see what canada really has to offer.
Nothing is free you dumb fucking kanucks. You think doctors would work for free? You think all the hospital equipment and electricity are free? Morons..
@cathrasher1974 You don't think we know its not free? We are well aware that we pay for the doctors, the buildings, the electricity through our taxes. Because of this, when we do go into a hospital or see a doctor we NEVER have to pay ANY additional money for our care. A moron is someone whose country is paying 17% of GDP towards healthcare yet doesn't even come close to covering anyone.
The average waiting times in Canadian ERs are a lot longer than shown in this video, depending on how severe your sickness is. Four to five hours waiting to get some medication for a stomach flu is a lot better than getting a $1k+ bill at the end of it.
I love Universal Healthcare and I really don't understand why the US is so against it.
@RjTheGenius You got a point there. Waiting would be preferred over paying hundreds or thounds for medicine. Although, i do find your saying of the US being against universal healthcare, because not everyone who lives in the US is against universal health care, and some may no even know it.
Unfortunetly, people in the US are told that privitize medicine is a norm of life.
I just find it hard to believe, that most Americans find "universal health care" negative. I simply don't understand, HOW is that a bad thing?? If the population is "taken care of", maybe they'll stay out of trouble, OR, here's something REALLY radical, stay ....HEALTHY???....might lead to a better lifestyle??
Perfect system? Nope, not at all! I'm glad that it's affordable and everyone has rights to it, but the waiting time is LOOOONG (sometimes). I almost died from a bad stomach virus once and I must have been waiting for well over two hours before getting helped (well, that's how it seemed, anyway. I was asleep...). But still, I love the Canadian health care system!
i have to say, this is no really the reality. Waiting time in the emergency in Montreal is between 4 and 7 houres. Of course the system is not perfect but i'm still happy it is affordable for everybody....
@scubandre1 2 of our states Montana and Vermont have already passed single payer with other states having legislation in the works. From what I understand that's how it started in Canada, one province than another and so on and so on.
@luvitluvitbaby Don't listen to megafullofshit. 85% of Canadians are fully satisfied with the care we receive and 90% support our system and would never want a for profit, insurance run system of the U.S.
Is the Canadian system perfect? Of course not! I had an ear infection and it hurt like hell and I waited 3 hours to be served. It was a Friday so it was busy but I realize that in no way was my discomfort an emergency. I would rather wait 3 hours and not have to pay anything then have a huge bill. When you need to go to the hospital you bring a book or magazines in case it is long and you wait. If your case is judge a priority then you don't wait. I think we have it better then down south.
I just experienced socialized healthcare. They didn't let me eat anything for three days (I waited THREE days) for a simple gastrointestinal test. Whenever I asked them when we were going to do the test they just told me to wait. Then in my hazy and dazed state they asked me to walk all the way across this crazy italian city to register myself with some office who made me go to another office who made me go to another office.
To be fair, some Canadian Hospitals have TERRIBLE waiting times. I was 17 and had to go to the CHEO (Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario), and that hospital is in terrible shape. So is the Queensway-Carleton Hospital. They get the job done, and any procedure is absolutely free, but its not a eutopia, nowhere is.
@yanis3 You may have a hospital in terrible shape, but its better than waiting 3 hours in the emergency room while your leg drips blood everywhere & then get a $1,400 bill for "doctors glue bandaid" (AKA superglue) & then have republicans complaining we pay too high of taxes because they already have private healthcare & don't see why people need public. :-(
Equal opportunity should be the underpinning of any civilized society. How can you have equal oportunity without equal access to health care? How can a person who is sick because they can't afford health care or, a child whose parents weren't given equal access to adequate prenatal care and thus may have a resulting defect or deficiency, be said to have equal opportunity. How can they compete with those who have the best health care simply because of being fortunate enough to have money?
i am canadian and ill tell you that our health care system is a complete joke, last time i was at the hospital was for stitches on my leg and waited 10 hours for them due to shortages of doctors. the hospitals arent the most up to date and organized either, trust me its nothing fucking special for our health care
@ryno13373 It isn't the federal government's fault-they push out funding and decide which province gets what-the provinces decide how many to hire, where to hire, what to buy, etc, etc. Don't blame Canada, blame your provincial government.
America`s health care system is not the number 1 best in the world - I would doubt in Canada or in ANY European country more than 10 % of the people asked would say they want America`s health care system
AMERICA, STOP FOOLING YOURSELF, ANY CONSERVATIVE POLITICIAN WHO SAYS ``America`s health care system is the envy of the world`` IS HOPELESSLY MISINFORMED!
o wait did you forget that our life expentancy is way higher then yours? Did you forget about the lifes ruined when there kid gets sick by all those medical bills? The USA will always be the USA its always about memememememememe and who else mememe your still voting for the same dumbass the stole 8 trillion and your country has a 11.6 trillion income lol and the guy that crashed your economy.
@Claronium780 Ask any citizen of a western country other than the states, If you had the chance to trade in your countries health insurance card for an american... would you? 100% guaranteed would say no.
I agree. I get health insurance on my job, but if I left my job to start a business I would join the 50 million Americans without health insurance. Why? I was told by insurance agents that my herniated disk makes me uninsurable for an individual health insurance policy.
The sad fact is that the C.M.P.A., the organization that defends most doctors in Canada, has almost unlimited financial resources compared to injured patients who have little or no ability to finance the significant costs of medical malpractice litigation.
Being ordered to pay thousands of dollars in legal costs to a successful plaintiff when defending a negligent doctor is a drop in the bucket to the C.M.P.A.
@Maddie6385 It is clear who you are. Using another alias to post more anedotal stories. For every person you list there are thousands upon thousands that have been saved by our system. Just curious to know when you are listing them.
Spare us the cherry picking.
Medical mistakes claim. Link please. Making a claim is easy, proving is more difficult.
4 Jun 2009 – Lori Stanley, Sherri Strong and Jocelyn Whalen, aunts of Aiden Soper, the 15-month-old who died of meningitis at the hospital in Clarenville ...
No Accountability or Transparency in Ontario: June 2011
29 Jun 2011 – IN MEMORY OF TERRA DAWN KILBY --Trying to bring Transparency and Accountability ..... His daughter, Terra Dawn Kilby, passed away in 2006, ...
Ontario's Chief Coroner's Office Fails to Investigate Deaths
BearFartsAreMyFavoriteHobbySniffingOver69of Em! ...is over here taking a beer induced verbal crap on everyone?So we have all looked at his lies and pointed out the obvious error after error!!! yet he still lies? Sad. ...he has to sober up before tomorrow. Let him take his case of beer to bed and dream of The Queens picture she might send him next week. (it's all he has left to hope for these days he exposed himself as a moron here so no unshaved rational minded sober lady will go near)
@memama2 "BearFartsAreMyFavoriteHobbySniffingOver69of Em" Wow, did you come up with that all by your lonesome, or did sweet Maddie help your little retarded brain with that big word?? So, so sweet. Its like a match made in heaven. A lying lunatic with a delusional retard.
I see a movie of the week in your future. Listen, can I be cut in on the credits?
Most Canadians don't realize that when they need competent care they may not get it.So many are still thinking its free..Wait until something bad happens and you end up in the USA getting damage assessed because you are all of a sudden denied tests and treatment..Or your love one dies and no one will tell you why.At least in the USA a person can sue.Look at the percent of lawsuits brought here.Suing mean accountability and Canada has little regarding victims of negligent medical care.
@Maddie6385 1st off, there are medical malpractice lawsuits in Canada. 2nd, U.S. lawsuits have become a joke, cost their system untold dollars, and cost doctors thousands of $ in liability insurance. 3rd, MOST Canadians DO realize how good they have it when 85% of them are happy with the care they have received. Does that mean its perfect, no. But its FAR better than the U.S> system that leaves out Millions.
Canadians ARE NOT denied tests or treatment under the Provincial payers. PERIOD.
Bearballs - is more mentally unstable than "This Hour Has 22 mins" Newfie quints! He has the same mental agility as he lies through life and insists it is almost REAL!
Maddie6385 - I have stood in intake line at big University teaching hospital when I lost my medical number card & heard horrible story from Canadian Family telling intake care head person & they were paying CA$H to get premium competent U.S.A. care instead of dying in canada crap care back home. I am not lying. I also have seen Canadian Family members lives ruined (1 had heart surgery that fell apart and killed him on the spot when he got back home) Totally wrongful death. From = CANADA CARE
@memama2 yup, those two stories almost amount to the 45,000 dead Americans in ONE YEAR, or the 60,000 Americans that sought care in Ontario. Difference is, I can back up my 'claims' can you.
In the meantime:
"The expression anecdotal evidence refers to evidence from anecdotes. Because of the small sample, there is a larger chance that it may be true but unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise unrepresentative of typical cases."
I know your system is not perfect but following Canada Care would be the worst thing you can do.I am going to be heading down south in the near future to get some quality care.
This scene might be misleading viewers because Canadian healthcare system is not perfect. At least, it is better than the USA's. Somebody in Canada is paying for another Canadian to cover his or her medical cost.
@carrywet Saying a Canadian is paying for another Canadian to cover their medical cost is the same as saying some Canadian is paying another Canadian to be able to drive on paved roads.
@zanzalot "You pay for YOURSELF but at a lower cost in single-payer."
Ok, so you think that paying the government, who then pays the doctors, will yield you lower cost and better quality than if you paid the doctors yourself?
@jjenson2006 Yes I do. Just look at the other countries with single-payer, and look at how many people are satisfied with it.
Ok, so you think that paying the insurance company, who then pays the doctors, will yield lower cost and better quality than if you paid the doctors yourself?
Nobody but the richest Americans pay for medical care without the help of the government or the "help" of a private insurance company.
@zanzalot "Ok, so you think that paying the insurance company, who then pays the doctors, will yield lower cost and better quality than if you paid the doctors yourself?"
Most definitely. You can choose just how much coverage you want.
"Nobody but the richest Americans pay for medical care without the help of the government or the "help" of a private insurance company."
Wrong. My father wan't rich, but he didn't have any coverage and he paid all medical expenses out of pocket.
@jjenson2006 Actually, 85% of Canadians are more than satisfied with the care they have received. Most of them having the 'serious' medical problems you mention.
@jjenson2006 By the way, my aunt had a tumor. She lives in France, and she received top-notch care without worrying about a fat medical bill or the fear of being denied coverage.
@zanzalot So your aunt was lucky. There are plenty of stories about people who had to come here to get treated or they would have died because the wait was too long.
@jjenson2006 Simple question, how long does one wait in the U.S. for life saving care when they can't afford it? Why not ask the 2 million Americans, that's 2 MILLION, that had to forgo cancer treatment in the U.S. last year because they could no longer afford it.
That guy's aunt is typical care that patient's in Universal system's receive. Keep drinking the koolaide.
@jjenson2006 You want references on 2 million Americans forgoing cancer treatment. No problem, since you are too lazy to just google it.
BMJ 2010
"1 in 6 patients in the United States with cancer skips some of their continuing health care because of cost, concludes a new study. The authors conclude that more than two million of about 12 million Americans with a history of cancer “did not get needed medical services because of financial concerns.”
@MadHabber93 Talk about cherry picking stuff. First of all, this is just opinion, not fact. Secondly, cancer is pretty much terminal and some people just don't want to continue fighting it at some point as it is painful. Thirdly, the FDA forbids using drugs that may help cancer patients that haven't been approved by them, even if the patient is willing to accept it. Fourth, Our health care is only expensive as it is because of government. Ron Paul has said much about this many times before.
@jjenson2006 Where are the videos of American patients who couldn't afford to stay alive? There are tonnes on here, just look for them. Or how about a study of 45,000 DEAD Americans every year who couldn't afford access to proper care. Google it sunshine.
You want to cherry pick a lady in a small Alberta city who was too lazy to phone another surgeon for her hip surgery? My 47 sister in law waited 2 months for hers. Cost... $0
How long does one wait in the U.S. who can't afford it?
@jjenson2006 Google Harvard study on the 45,000 dead Americans. Heard of Harvard?
And the fact you 'haven't heard" of the problem of AMericans forgoing treatment due to cost tells me you are either stupid or ignorant. Probably both
For the 9 million Americans
"ScienceDaily (Mar. 16, 2011)An estimated 9 million working-age adults -- 57% of people who had health insurance through a job that was lost -- became uninsured in the last two years, according to the Commonwealth Fund."
@MadHabber93 Whether the study is accurate or not it doesn't change the fact that they should have gotten catastrophic insurance (which is VERY cheap) and just paid out of pocket for wart removal, whooping cough, etc. Catastrophic insurance is cheap because it is very rare that someone would have to make a claim. Full coverage insurance means insurance has to pay out for everything AND people are more likely to go to a doctor, even when it's unnecessary. That's why it's SO expensive!
@MadHabber93 Here's a little video by some of your locals watch?v=iho3eO6Oobw Oh Canada! watch?v=TPFK6aLJec8 Frazer Institute watch?v=e2lWaff7Zf0 Wait list insurance watch?v=Pi3WcvRHZ_M The truth about Canada Healthcare watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw Dogs wait 1 day for a CT scan, human waits 1 month. watch?v=SXkB64Ss5Xk
@jjenson2006 So, where are the videos of Americans? Here ya go.
watch?v=wLLVhneIBTc&feature=related
watch?v=lqyD2bCSTaQ&feature=related
watch?v=oO3hrQHjj3g&feature=related
watch?v=DKXEiGjNCME&feature=related
watch?v=DNHNCScYpX8&feature=related
There's much more, but I'll stop there.
But look at the last one. What does a father do, when it costs $750,000/year to treat his ill son, but has a lifetime cap of $1,000,000?? Nice system. Would NOT happen in Canada.
@MadHabber93 LOL Every one of those videos is about people with financial problems due to hospital care, not about people being denied medical services and being forced to leave the country to get it somewhere else or die. You won't find any NOWHERE because EVERYONE ALWAYS gets taken care of REGARDLESS of their financial situation.
The reason why there's a long waiting list for specialists in canada is because there is a lack of specialists due to poor compensation for doctors.
@jjenson2006 If they can't afford the treatment that IS being denied care. They don't pay they don't get the care. Period.
For your premise that our shortage is due to lack of compensation, Specialists in Canada are making mid to upper 6 figures. A good number making 7 figures. I work in Pharma and very closely with specialists everyday. They drive new high end cars, have million dollar homes and cottages, pools and private schools. They are the highest paid profession in Canada.
@MadHabber93 " If they can't afford the treatment that IS being denied care. They don't pay they don't get the care. Period."
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE VIDEOS YOU POSTED ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN TAKEN CARE OFF!
I don't care about those who got stuck with bills. That's their fault! They should've had catastrophic insurance (which is VERY cheap). I don't care any more about their debts than I do about those who pulled 100% equity out of their no money down house at the peak of the bubble!
@jjenson2006 And everyone you posted were people who also were either taken care of or would have been if they simply waited their turn. And isn't that nice you don't care about those stuck with bills. God hope you never lose your coverage, like 9 MILLION Americans did last year. Again, Millions of Americans simply FORGO treatment because THEY CAN"T AFFORD IT. DENIED DENIED DENIED due to COST.
@MadHabber93 "And everyone you posted were people who also were either taken care of or would have been if they simply waited their turn. "
If you would have watched the movies, you would have learned that there were people who would have died if they waited as long as they were expected to.
I still haven't seen any references to the "9 million americans" who had to forgo treatment. Maybe someone who needed a wart removed was denied, but none of life threatening situations.
@jjenson2006 The video's you provided, which I've seen many times before, are cherry picked bullshit. The one is of a lady waiting for a hip replacement, hardly life threatening. And the 9 million are people who lost their insurance last year. No insurance, no job, NO healthcare.
And VERY FEW Canadians go south for care. Another myth you are hanging on to. Google Phantoms in the Snow. And you do realized that the U.S. has a doc shortage right?? Nevermind.
@jjenson2006 Your article is not accurate to the TRUE picture of salaries here. Of course I know that, BECAUSE I FUCKING LIVE HERE and personally know over 100 doctors.
Article for the province Ontario:
Canadian Press
Date: Wednesday Oct. 4, 2006 8:07 PM ET
"the number of doctors earning more than $476,000 annually to jump 56 per cent last year -- some averaging salaries upwards of $718,000"
And that's from 5 years ago. They are making even more now.
"The salary cap was lifted because 1.2 million Ontario residents don't have a doctor, and the province wanted to encourage existing doctors to see more patients, Smitherman said."
"There are too few doctors, and of course we want to get as much productivity as we can out of those that we have, and financial incentive is the very best way known to do that."
Yup, this is why there is such a long waiting list and why canadians come here for treatment.
Speaking of knee surgery, my mother here in the US has private health care insurance (via employer). She had to wait around 3 or 4 months for surgery as the surgeon had a waiting list. Sure, she could have called more places and found something quicker a few more miles away but the point still is that she still had to wait and there is ALWAYS a fight to be had with the insurance company because they will always try to deny something--e.g. length of therapy which is crucial post-knee surgery.
Hmmm these wait times aren't necessarily the true story for all of Canada lol, it depends where you are... But the point is that in America, sure you get the surgery and your knee is fixed but now you can't afford your house. In Canada you'll wait say 6 months but you'll have a house to go home to when you leave the hospital.
@MoonOvIce Our income taxes are very similar to yours. We actually pay less on a federal level, as the highest tax bracket federally is 29% vs. 35% in the States. We pay more in sales taxes, unless you live in Alberta. However, when you add up all the taxes you pay plus all the health insurance premiums, co-pays, deductibles, etc., and compare it to what we pay in taxes. We pay quite a bit less. And we never have to worry about losing our insurance with a job loss.
@MadHabber93 Thanks for the reply, but "yours" doesn't apply to me since I'm not American, though I did live in the US for a number of years and that's why I speak English mostly fluently...
I actually saw this documentary for the first time when I lived in the US.
@noob616 Why would you go to an ER to have a dressing done a cut? Was it after hours? And I wouldn't mind waiting a few hours for that, knowing I will be seen right away if I walked in with chest pains. Which I have. Its called triage.
@MadHabber93 Because it was a quite deep cut, and I thought it could have been stitched, but that turned out to be an impossibility. The point is, that in good private US hospitals, people don't wait 6 hours for care. It just doesn't happen.
@MadHabber93 We can trade horror stories forever, but it doesn't seem like we're ever going to come to an agreement. My support of a private health care system, is because I believe capitalism and competition brings the best product for the consumer. I don't like using the US as an example of private health care, because it really isn't. The US government has its hands in health care (price fixing, etc), and that's part of why it's such a broken system. Bottom line, let's agree to disagree :)
@noob616 True we will definitely agree to disagree. Btw, the U.S. gov't only has it hands for a small portion of the population, and ask them if they'd like to give up that coverage. I've heard the argument before about capitalism and competition in healthcare. That's why Americans under private insurance are treated like a commodity, free to be discarded at any whim. And I want my doctors working together to find the best solution for my care, not competing against each other for it.
@MadHabber93 By have their hands in it, I didn't mean providing care so much as altering the system (they set the prices for operations so they can't fall). The US medical system is not a true capitalist system, and doesn't allow for competition. I believe competition is the best way to go, because if a doctor or hospital isn't doing its job properly, it closes down because they don't make any money.
@noob616 If a doctor isn't doing their job properly, word gets around, and patients will stop going there on their own. Same goes with hospitals. We aren't handcuffed to go to only certain hospitals or certain doctors.
And the U.S. system is one of the most capitalistic on the planet. Many institutions and doctors bill what they want.
For our system, prices are Negotiated with hospitals and doctors, not just set.
MadHabber93 = how many Canadians are docs up there allowed to kill before it becomes a problem? Or is it up to the patient to steer clear of killer docs? Sounds great. Can't wait for murder ball bs canada crap care to come to U.S.A. ......seeeeesh it's a madhouse what Canadians accept so it's FO FREE!
i dont get why canadians shit on the americans for their healthcare so much. who care what they do in the US? its not your country. Lots of countries dont have universal healthcare
willythewildwino 2 days ago
@willythewildwino The US healthcare industry employs people to attack the Canadian Healthcare system in the press. We also abhor the fact that so many of our American brothers and sisters die because they don't have the healthcare that we have.
dmmaggi 2 days ago
@dmmaggi what about india? or china? or brazil? theres plenty of countries with way worse healthcare systems than the one in the Us, why not focus on thise? what is it with canadians and there obsession with the USA? its childish
willythewildwino 1 day ago
@willythewildwino Why not those countries? Because those countries politicians, pundits, and media outlets etc. don't go on their countries' tv stations and tell lies about our healthcare system to further their own agenda or ideology. That's why. Did you ever ask yourself why there was even a need to make this video to begin with?
MadHabber93 1 day ago
@MadHabber93 the need to make this video was Michael Moores need to make millions of dollars. he is a multi millionaire, not some benevolent, loving guru sent from heaven to save America
willythewildwino 22 hours ago
@willythewildwino Moore has nothing to do with my comment. You complained about our obsession with the U.S. when its the exact opposite. Its the American right wing, neo conservative media ie Fox News' obession to lie and mislead about Canada's healthcare system to support their position. We didn't bring ourselves into your healthcare debate, you brought us.
MadHabber93 11 hours ago
Comment removed
willythewildwino 1 day ago
anybody waiting less than an hour? i call bullshit. sorry, but that doesnt happen, the clocks in that room are slow. you have to call an ambulance to get any attention at all.
RESTxINxPIECEZ 3 days ago
Damn Mr Moore - you were in Canada and didnt take advantage of the FREE LIPOSUCTION.
By the way - is it just me or does Mr Moore's jiggling gut remind you of 60 pounds of congealed mayonnaise in an over-inflated balloon?
FunkyMothaFunksta 4 days ago
I dont know who those lucky pricks are in this hospital, but every time i go to the hospital its a 6 hour wait at least. Oh and by the way, i havent had a family doctor since he retired 5 years ago. the canadian system is just as fucked up as the US.! Corporations run the world, people! Not governments!
maluorno 1 week ago
@maluorno its ppl like u that clog up the system..if u don't have a GP go and get one so u don't waste other peoples time while u wait in the ER to get checked out for something as trivial as a headache
brennan727 4 days ago
@brennan727 - are you fucking retarded?....i had a broken hand.....no headache. The doctors here aren't taking any more people. Get a clue.
maluorno 3 days ago
@maluorno right so ur broken hand vs someone coming in with a stroke..wonder who's gonna see the doc first..if ud rather pay for ur health care go to the states otherwise quit complaining.. the 6 hrs spent in the ER is much less than the time ud take to pay off the bills figure it out
brennan727 3 days ago
@brennan727 - you idiot.....who says i would rather pay ? My small town does not have people coming in with a stroke left and right. What I'm saying is that neither system is perfect and the powers that be put dollars first before peoples' well-being. Don't tell me where to go, either. I'm quite happy where I am.
maluorno 3 days ago
@maluorno then quit bitching about free health care when millions of people would die to be as lucky as u
brennan727 2 days ago
@brennan727 - since it is apparently a free country, i can bitch and moan about anything i feel like. Including you. Suck it.
maluorno 2 days ago
Sure don't spend any money for health care but spend billions for wars >.>
JustLetsPlays 1 week ago 2
michael moore is a fat cunt.
willythewildwino 3 weeks ago
I rather wait in an Hospital here in Canada, than to pay money. Yes, the wait can be long, but health is a universal right.
cmab0ne 1 month ago 5
ontario is way better than QC their not that communist like QC
mtlchronix 1 month ago 2
@mtlchronix That's true. Quebec is waaaay too socialized. NDP...ouch.
MadHabber93 1 month ago 2
@MadHabber93 what the fuck??? you prefer conservative party? war? pollution? money over morality? I dont understand the point of your comment... you problably never came in quebec and surely doesn't understand politic.
MrJacobpoliquin 1 month ago
@MrJacobpoliquin I've been to Quebec many times, hence my nickname on here. I'll be back in February. I know the politics of Quebec, and its one of the most highly taxed, over programmed province in Canada. YOu are more left wing than most of the country and you are paying for it.
And yes, I like the Conservative party. I'm for fiscal balance, fair taxes, proper and balanced social programmes. Not bloated gov't like in Quebec.
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@mtlchronix Every province have the same type of government, with the same institutions....there is nothing more communist in QC than in Ontario...
MrJacobpoliquin 1 month ago 2
here found some statistic "Il a dénoncé le fait que le nombre de patients qui ont attendu plus de 48 heures sur civière a augmenté de 1614 % entre 2003 et 2010, passant de 169 à 2897 annuellement, comparativement à 19 % pour l'ensemble du Québec."
so people who wait 48+hours went up to 1614% from 2003 to 2010, from 169 person to 2897!!!!!! thatys ALOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
mtlchronix 1 month ago
dude , im reading report as we talk right now, too bad i cant post links on youtube, i have one now , 8 days he wait in the emergency room , jusrt type "attente a lurgence"
or "waiting at emergency room canada" youll have 10 pages depicting the poor health care we have and the months we have to wait to have an operation or transplant
mtlchronix 1 month ago
@mtlchronix Transplant wait times have everything to do with a donor being available and nothing to do with the system. I can also show you an Ontario report where average wait times are less than 2 hours. Less than 6 minutes for urgent cases. You are talking just Quebec.
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@mtlchronix And what about the fact that the problem is not the hospitals and the healthcare system but only because people are getting older and sicker because of the way of life?? It's the same thing (even worse) in US but they cannot afford to go to hospital for the large majority, and the insurrance companies always find an excuse to not give the money.We have the same system as in France and UK, but the difference is that their way of life make them healthier than north american
MrJacobpoliquin 1 month ago
and all the specialist leave quebec and canada to go to the US where they get paid half a million more!
mtlchronix 1 month ago
@mtlchronix The average specialist are now making the same or more now in Canada. And your uncle is the exception, not the norm. My brother in law has his thyroid tumor removed in less than 3 weeks. You cannot damn an entire system over onc anecdotal story.
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93 the avrg spc, make 150 000$ CA, in USA its 500k+$
my friend is a Dr. once hes over with the specialisation hes moving to the south.....
mtlchronix 1 month ago
@mtlchronix More docs are returning to Canada, in particular specialists, for nearly the last decade. Many specialists in Canada are making $500K+ here as well. Many of them are my clients.
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93 they are NOT returning at all, the minister is acctually passing a bill for the specialist to be able to win more so they dont run away, and they been giving 3000$ bonus to nurse's too (my wife a nurse with a BAC)
mtlchronix 1 month ago
@mtlchronix Simply not true. And you can post links. Here are a couple supporting doctors returning to Canada.
healthworkermigrationDOTcom/news/222-doctor-drain-turns-to-gain-physicians-move-north.html
chsrfDOTca/Migrated/PDF/myth29_e.pdf
MadHabber93 1 month ago
LOL this video is BS , im living in quebc canada and the health care is fucked up you wait 20 hours to get stitchs...free yes...but you have to wait, my step father has a tumor , he has been waiting for 6 month now for a fuckign space at the hospital because the only fucking specialist is too buysy giving conference in europe....so fuck off mr moore
mtlchronix 1 month ago
@mtlchronix Tell your uncle to move to the United States.
Bigdadda20 1 month ago
THANK YOU MICHAEL FOR SHOWING THE TRUTH !
kn9ioutom 1 month ago
The bottom line is that Canadians, along with people who live in other Western nations with universal, tax-payer funded healthcare, live, on average, 4-5 years longer than Americans do. Says a lot.
severedtesticles 2 months ago
In Canada as well as where I live, in Sweden, the waiting list for organ transplants is up at almost a decade. People die in line in Sweden waiting for cancer treatment, because the government hospitals do not fight to give people good healthcare as a profit-driven, private hospital would. Moore is a liar and you are truly the shepherd's flock if you believe him. Sicko is nothing but moronic propaganda.
DrStrangebomb1993 2 months ago
@DrStrangebomb1993 Then freaking go to USA and have the damn surgery done there, if you have the money. problem solved.
lomaenseii 2 months ago
@lomaenseii Many Canadians do, you know, and not just rich sheikhs as Moore would like to make you think...
DrStrangebomb1993 2 months ago
@DrStrangebomb1993 No, not many Canadians go south for care. Its a myth perpetuated by the AMerican right wing. Google the study Phantoms in the SNow, which concluded that Canadians going south for care amounts to a trickle and is a myth. While 750,000 Americans went abroad for care they couldn't afford at home in 2007, with that number predicted to go into the Millions this past year.
MadHabber93 2 months ago
@MadHabber93 Of course they go abroad, but they go abroad to other market economy, private healthcare nations where it's cheaper. Do you think they all go to the neat propaganda hospital in Cuba like in Sicko? If it's an American myth, how come Canadian doctor David Gratzer published a book detailing the inhuman, long lines in the Canadian NHS, how people die waiting for treatment? Google it friend, it's called "The Cure - how capitalism can save healthcare".
DrStrangebomb1993 2 months ago
@DrStrangebomb1993 David Gratzer is a cherry picking liar, that represents the Manhattan Institute, a heavy right wing rag out of the U.S. He misleads, cherry picks, and LIES. He writes that yet ignores the MILLIONS of Americans that simply go without care, the countless bankruptcies, and the healthcare outcomes showing that Canada has equivalent or better outcomes than the U.S.
MadHabber93 2 months ago
@MadHabber93 *Sigh* can't you socialists ever debate without resorting to insults? Gratzer is an intelligent man, Moore didn't even complete his education and claims he's the harbinger of truth? Don't make me laugh. Just for your info, I live in Sweden and the problem here's the same as in Canada. Granted, recent conservative reforms are making the situation ever so better, but the queues for cancer treatment are still almost as long as during the socialist reign of terror.
DrStrangebomb1993 2 months ago
@DrStrangebomb1993 Not to mention, there isn't one study to support the bullshit that we die waiting for treatment. We wait for elective procedures like hip replacement, not needed treatment like heart bypass or cancer care.
And he never explains how for profit insurance can 'save healthcare', since insurance companies put all of NOTHING back into the system.
MadHabber93 2 months ago
@MadHabber93 Actually, there is - like I mentioned, David Gratzer has quite a few things to say about that. Furthermore, the cold heart fact about insurance is that people pay premiums into a pool which pays for those that do get sick. Per the rules of economics, some people will try to freeload on this and the insurance companies have a valid reason to check thoroughly before granting claims. Still, refusal levels are usually below 5%. Get your facts straight, man.
DrStrangebomb1993 2 months ago
@DrStrangebomb1993 Get my facts straight? You are pulling the refusal level from a b.s. report provided by, wait for it, the insurance industry of the U.S. When the California nurses body researched it, as insurance companies have to publish the REAL numbers there by law, it was revealed it went as high as 40% denial rates. And that's for those WITH inusurance. Millions in The States simply can't afford it. Gratzer's intelligence just makes him a better Liar. I work in the industry, I know.
MadHabber93 2 months ago
@DrStrangebomb1993 Why do think some wait times for those WITH insurance in the U.S. 'might' be shorter?? Because they leave MILLONS out of the queue to begin with. And although you are an intelligent 17 year old, your lack of experience in the real world and reality of economics in the real world once you leave Mommy and Daddy's nest is glaring. Referencing a liar like Gratzer won't change the truth. Check out the Youtube video where the U.S. congressman owns his ass.
MadHabber93 2 months ago
@DrStrangebomb1993 And for you trying to label me a socialist is laughable at best. I've voted conservative the last 3 Federal elections and 3 Provincial elections. The vast majority of Canadian conservatives fully support Universal Healthcare. Why? Because we live beside a country that spends 40% more on healthcare, covering FAR less people, with no better outcomes. As a fiscal Conservative, I want a system that costs less and serves everyone.
MadHabber93 2 months ago
@DrStrangebomb1993 Du borde kanske skaffa dig lite mer bakrundsinfo innan du börjar spy ut lögner. Läs på om hur vårat system funkar kontra Kanadas, så kanske skulle folk ta dig mer på allvar.
Inte konstigt att moderaterna har makten i Sverige när det finns folk som du.
Sthlmsodra87 3 weeks ago
The part that pissed me off is "oh, we complain" and Moore chimes in "right, you're canadian", as if he somehow is making a statement. lol what the fuck, moore? that's just retarded
YakuzaJoe88 2 months ago
umm CANADIANS WE PAY its called TAXES but its not as much as the insurance companies charge in the U.S and if your poor its good so i think its benefits for the community are good people in the states are just to greedy
TYUIO11111 2 months ago
why whenever Michael Moore goes to canada he goes to the whitest and smallest canadian town. I mean go to Toronto, Calgary, Montreal or Vancouver and see what canada really has to offer.
MyLifeIsSh1t 2 months ago
Nothing is free you dumb fucking kanucks. You think doctors would work for free? You think all the hospital equipment and electricity are free? Morons..
cathrasher1974 3 months ago
@cathrasher1974 You don't think we know its not free? We are well aware that we pay for the doctors, the buildings, the electricity through our taxes. Because of this, when we do go into a hospital or see a doctor we NEVER have to pay ANY additional money for our care. A moron is someone whose country is paying 17% of GDP towards healthcare yet doesn't even come close to covering anyone.
MadHabber93 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
No system is perfect but in Canada Universal Health Care is important, we shouldn't choose who gets care by wealth
calgaryred 3 months ago
Comment removed
calgaryred 3 months ago
The average waiting times in Canadian ERs are a lot longer than shown in this video, depending on how severe your sickness is. Four to five hours waiting to get some medication for a stomach flu is a lot better than getting a $1k+ bill at the end of it.
I love Universal Healthcare and I really don't understand why the US is so against it.
RjTheGenius 3 months ago
@RjTheGenius You got a point there. Waiting would be preferred over paying hundreds or thounds for medicine. Although, i do find your saying of the US being against universal healthcare, because not everyone who lives in the US is against universal health care, and some may no even know it.
Unfortunetly, people in the US are told that privitize medicine is a norm of life.
NonstopRam 3 months ago
I just find it hard to believe, that most Americans find "universal health care" negative. I simply don't understand, HOW is that a bad thing?? If the population is "taken care of", maybe they'll stay out of trouble, OR, here's something REALLY radical, stay ....HEALTHY???....might lead to a better lifestyle??
ralphyization 3 months ago
Perfect system? Nope, not at all! I'm glad that it's affordable and everyone has rights to it, but the waiting time is LOOOONG (sometimes). I almost died from a bad stomach virus once and I must have been waiting for well over two hours before getting helped (well, that's how it seemed, anyway. I was asleep...). But still, I love the Canadian health care system!
xTsukiTsuki 3 months ago
i have to say, this is no really the reality. Waiting time in the emergency in Montreal is between 4 and 7 houres. Of course the system is not perfect but i'm still happy it is affordable for everybody....
scubandre1 3 months ago
@scubandre1 That's about the same amount of time we wait here in the U.S. and then we get a bill.
luvitluvitbaby 3 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby well let's hope americans will take the right decision in 2012!!!! good luck
scubandre1 3 months ago
@scubandre1 2 of our states Montana and Vermont have already passed single payer with other states having legislation in the works. From what I understand that's how it started in Canada, one province than another and so on and so on.
Thank you for the inspiration!
luvitluvitbaby 3 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby health care is working horrible here in Canada, many are considering scraping it.
MegaSoumynona 3 months ago
@MegaSoumynona Coming from someone in Canada, where did you get THAT little nugget of bullshit?
shadowmare97 3 months ago
@shadowmare97 everywhere look it up. Alberta already has
MegaSoumynona 3 months ago
@luvitluvitbaby Don't listen to megafullofshit. 85% of Canadians are fully satisfied with the care we receive and 90% support our system and would never want a for profit, insurance run system of the U.S.
MadHabber93 3 months ago
@MadHabber93 I figured as much, Tommy Douglas wasn't voted the greatest Canadian ever for nothing lol!
luvitluvitbaby 3 months ago
Is the Canadian system perfect? Of course not! I had an ear infection and it hurt like hell and I waited 3 hours to be served. It was a Friday so it was busy but I realize that in no way was my discomfort an emergency. I would rather wait 3 hours and not have to pay anything then have a huge bill. When you need to go to the hospital you bring a book or magazines in case it is long and you wait. If your case is judge a priority then you don't wait. I think we have it better then down south.
Sngd3fm4 3 months ago
id rather waiting a while and the day the i get my finger cut off its free or in the us it would cost me over 5k for a finger to get sowed back on.
OPandroids 3 months ago
I just experienced socialized healthcare. They didn't let me eat anything for three days (I waited THREE days) for a simple gastrointestinal test. Whenever I asked them when we were going to do the test they just told me to wait. Then in my hazy and dazed state they asked me to walk all the way across this crazy italian city to register myself with some office who made me go to another office who made me go to another office.
thedude1342 3 months ago
To be fair, some Canadian Hospitals have TERRIBLE waiting times. I was 17 and had to go to the CHEO (Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario), and that hospital is in terrible shape. So is the Queensway-Carleton Hospital. They get the job done, and any procedure is absolutely free, but its not a eutopia, nowhere is.
yanis3 4 months ago
@yanis3 You may have a hospital in terrible shape, but its better than waiting 3 hours in the emergency room while your leg drips blood everywhere & then get a $1,400 bill for "doctors glue bandaid" (AKA superglue) & then have republicans complaining we pay too high of taxes because they already have private healthcare & don't see why people need public. :-(
madjimms 4 months ago
I love canada <3
Natalie21001 4 months ago
Equal opportunity should be the underpinning of any civilized society. How can you have equal oportunity without equal access to health care? How can a person who is sick because they can't afford health care or, a child whose parents weren't given equal access to adequate prenatal care and thus may have a resulting defect or deficiency, be said to have equal opportunity. How can they compete with those who have the best health care simply because of being fortunate enough to have money?
dnsmithnc 4 months ago
lol k im not from toronto, ont. and you must be in gr9
ryno13373 4 months ago
@ryno13373 Then you must have attended a pretty shitty school. It's standard social studies, and it's sad that some people cannot handle it.
Max17766 4 months ago
i am canadian and ill tell you that our health care system is a complete joke, last time i was at the hospital was for stitches on my leg and waited 10 hours for them due to shortages of doctors. the hospitals arent the most up to date and organized either, trust me its nothing fucking special for our health care
ryno13373 4 months ago
@ryno13373 It isn't the federal government's fault-they push out funding and decide which province gets what-the provinces decide how many to hire, where to hire, what to buy, etc, etc. Don't blame Canada, blame your provincial government.
Max17766 4 months ago
@Max17766 lmao either way its the canadian gov and its in canada lol congratulations, you spoke and said nothing...
ryno13373 4 months ago
@ryno13373 You're a moron. I doubt you're even Canadian, because this is grade 8 stuff here.
Max17766 4 months ago 8
America`s health care system is not the number 1 best in the world - I would doubt in Canada or in ANY European country more than 10 % of the people asked would say they want America`s health care system
AMERICA, STOP FOOLING YOURSELF, ANY CONSERVATIVE POLITICIAN WHO SAYS ``America`s health care system is the envy of the world`` IS HOPELESSLY MISINFORMED!
Claronium780 4 months ago 37
@Claronium780 USA is 37 , Cuba 39 , france Number 1 , my country Tunisia N 55
saddemgargouri 4 months ago
@Claronium780 this shows how dumb you are you don't have a heathcare system you have hospitals dumbs.
OPandroids 3 months ago
o wait did you forget that our life expentancy is way higher then yours? Did you forget about the lifes ruined when there kid gets sick by all those medical bills? The USA will always be the USA its always about memememememememe and who else mememe your still voting for the same dumbass the stole 8 trillion and your country has a 11.6 trillion income lol and the guy that crashed your economy.
OPandroids 3 months ago
@Claronium780 Ask any citizen of a western country other than the states, If you had the chance to trade in your countries health insurance card for an american... would you? 100% guaranteed would say no.
DBDMotorsports 3 months ago
@Claronium780
I agree. I get health insurance on my job, but if I left my job to start a business I would join the 50 million Americans without health insurance. Why? I was told by insurance agents that my herniated disk makes me uninsurable for an individual health insurance policy.
bmusicinoc 2 months ago
Comment removed
Maddie6385 4 months ago
Canada’s “Loser Pays” Rule Not Fair to Medical Malpractice Victims
Discourages Legitimate Claims?
Injured Patients Can't Take the Risk
Not a Level Playing Field
Maddie6385 4 months ago
@Maddie6385
The sad fact is that the C.M.P.A., the organization that defends most doctors in Canada, has almost unlimited financial resources compared to injured patients who have little or no ability to finance the significant costs of medical malpractice litigation.
Being ordered to pay thousands of dollars in legal costs to a successful plaintiff when defending a negligent doctor is a drop in the bucket to the C.M.P.A.
Maddie6385 4 months ago
@Maddie6385 It is clear who you are. Using another alias to post more anedotal stories. For every person you list there are thousands upon thousands that have been saved by our system. Just curious to know when you are listing them.
Spare us the cherry picking.
Medical mistakes claim. Link please. Making a claim is easy, proving is more difficult.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
34,278,400 Canada's Population
Medical mistakes third leading cause of deaths in Canada
Maddie6385 4 months ago
Family wonders 'What if?' - News - The Packet
.thepacket.ca/News/2009-06-04/article-1430760/Family...What.../1
4 Jun 2009 – Lori Stanley, Sherri Strong and Jocelyn Whalen, aunts of Aiden Soper, the 15-month-old who died of meningitis at the hospital in Clarenville ...
Maddie6385 4 months ago
No Accountability or Transparency in Ontario: June 2011
29 Jun 2011 – IN MEMORY OF TERRA DAWN KILBY --Trying to bring Transparency and Accountability ..... His daughter, Terra Dawn Kilby, passed away in 2006, ...
Ontario's Chief Coroner's Office Fails to Investigate Deaths
Maddie6385 4 months ago
...bloated bs'er big michele is sure not going to CUBA OR CANADA to have himself or his kin cared for there eh?
memama2 4 months ago
Deadly Medical Practices by Trudy Newman
Talks about patient blacklisting
Maddie6385 4 months ago
@Maddie6385 An opinion piece with ABSOLUTELY no facts to back up her claims is your proof?
Maddie, you do know that I know who you are...right?
Beartit69 4 months ago
BearFartsAreMyFavoriteHobbySniffingOver69of Em! ...is over here taking a beer induced verbal crap on everyone?So we have all looked at his lies and pointed out the obvious error after error!!! yet he still lies? Sad. ...he has to sober up before tomorrow. Let him take his case of beer to bed and dream of The Queens picture she might send him next week. (it's all he has left to hope for these days he exposed himself as a moron here so no unshaved rational minded sober lady will go near)
memama2 4 months ago
@memama2 "BearFartsAreMyFavoriteHobbySniffingOver69of Em" Wow, did you come up with that all by your lonesome, or did sweet Maddie help your little retarded brain with that big word?? So, so sweet. Its like a match made in heaven. A lying lunatic with a delusional retard.
I see a movie of the week in your future. Listen, can I be cut in on the credits?
Beartit69 4 months ago
Most Canadians don't realize that when they need competent care they may not get it.So many are still thinking its free..Wait until something bad happens and you end up in the USA getting damage assessed because you are all of a sudden denied tests and treatment..Or your love one dies and no one will tell you why.At least in the USA a person can sue.Look at the percent of lawsuits brought here.Suing mean accountability and Canada has little regarding victims of negligent medical care.
Maddie6385 4 months ago
@Maddie6385 1st off, there are medical malpractice lawsuits in Canada. 2nd, U.S. lawsuits have become a joke, cost their system untold dollars, and cost doctors thousands of $ in liability insurance. 3rd, MOST Canadians DO realize how good they have it when 85% of them are happy with the care they have received. Does that mean its perfect, no. But its FAR better than the U.S> system that leaves out Millions.
Canadians ARE NOT denied tests or treatment under the Provincial payers. PERIOD.
Beartit69 4 months ago
@Beartit69
Your wrong about being denied tests or treatment.I have proof of this.Have you heard of patient blacklisting.It's not really hard to figure it out
Maddie6385 4 months ago
@Maddie6385 Why were you black listed? Explain? Could it be because you are mentally unstable like Fix is? Could you be under workman's comp too?
Saying your blacklisted means fuck all if you don't explain it.
What province do you live in? What's your health issue?
Millions of Canadians have never been blacklisted. Your case is NOT the norm nor even a small percentage of it. Spare me.
Beartit69 4 months ago
Bearballs - is more mentally unstable than "This Hour Has 22 mins" Newfie quints! He has the same mental agility as he lies through life and insists it is almost REAL!
memama2 4 months ago
Maddie6385 - I have stood in intake line at big University teaching hospital when I lost my medical number card & heard horrible story from Canadian Family telling intake care head person & they were paying CA$H to get premium competent U.S.A. care instead of dying in canada crap care back home. I am not lying. I also have seen Canadian Family members lives ruined (1 had heart surgery that fell apart and killed him on the spot when he got back home) Totally wrongful death. From = CANADA CARE
memama2 4 months ago
@memama2 yup, those two stories almost amount to the 45,000 dead Americans in ONE YEAR, or the 60,000 Americans that sought care in Ontario. Difference is, I can back up my 'claims' can you.
In the meantime:
"The expression anecdotal evidence refers to evidence from anecdotes. Because of the small sample, there is a larger chance that it may be true but unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise unrepresentative of typical cases."
Beartit69 4 months ago
@memama2
I know your system is not perfect but following Canada Care would be the worst thing you can do.I am going to be heading down south in the near future to get some quality care.
Maddie6385 4 months ago
@Maddie6385 Hope you have that bank loan secured.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93
Naw I will just use my visa card..Banks are weird about loaning money sometimes.
Maddie6385 4 months ago
OBAMA SUPPORTER: WEZE HERE TO GET DA FREE MONEY AND HEALTH CARE
REPORTER: DO YOU KNOW WHERE OBAMA GOT THE MONEY HES GIVING YOU?
OBAMA SUPPORTER: OBAMA JUST GOT IT
REPORTER: BUT WHERE DID HE GET IT?
OBAMA SUPPORTER: I DOESNT KNOW BUT HE GOTS HIMSELF A STASH THAT HES GONNA GIVE TO US FOLKS.
TheJboogie314 4 months ago
@TheJboogie314 Fuck there is a stupid Obama supporter. Horrible, there has nevere been such a thing with Bush!
1stAma 4 months ago
12 hours
soule101 5 months ago
This scene might be misleading viewers because Canadian healthcare system is not perfect. At least, it is better than the USA's. Somebody in Canada is paying for another Canadian to cover his or her medical cost.
carrywet 5 months ago
@carrywet Saying a Canadian is paying for another Canadian to cover their medical cost is the same as saying some Canadian is paying another Canadian to be able to drive on paved roads.
MadHabber93 5 months ago
That's st josephs hospital in london ontario, I was born there =D
Cirvantes123 6 months ago
Free, free, free, never mind the money that the government is picking from your pocket to pay for it.
Let's see them show patients with serious medical problems admiring the system!
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@jjenson2006 yeah, never mind the money the private insurance company is picket from your pocket to pay for it.
You pay for YOURSELF but at a lower cost in single-payer.
zanzalot 6 months ago
@zanzalot "You pay for YOURSELF but at a lower cost in single-payer."
Ok, so you think that paying the government, who then pays the doctors, will yield you lower cost and better quality than if you paid the doctors yourself?
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@jjenson2006 Yes I do. Just look at the other countries with single-payer, and look at how many people are satisfied with it.
Ok, so you think that paying the insurance company, who then pays the doctors, will yield lower cost and better quality than if you paid the doctors yourself?
Nobody but the richest Americans pay for medical care without the help of the government or the "help" of a private insurance company.
zanzalot 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@zanzalot "Ok, so you think that paying the insurance company, who then pays the doctors, will yield lower cost and better quality than if you paid the doctors yourself?"
Most definitely. You can choose just how much coverage you want.
"Nobody but the richest Americans pay for medical care without the help of the government or the "help" of a private insurance company."
Wrong. My father wan't rich, but he didn't have any coverage and he paid all medical expenses out of pocket.
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@jjenson2006 Actually, 85% of Canadians are more than satisfied with the care they have received. Most of them having the 'serious' medical problems you mention.
MadHabber93 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MadHabber93 " Actually, 85% of Canadians are more than satisfied with the care they have received."
Do you have a reference to this or did you just make it up?
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@jjenson2006 By the way, my aunt had a tumor. She lives in France, and she received top-notch care without worrying about a fat medical bill or the fear of being denied coverage.
zanzalot 6 months ago
@zanzalot So your aunt was lucky. There are plenty of stories about people who had to come here to get treated or they would have died because the wait was too long.
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@jjenson2006 Simple question, how long does one wait in the U.S. for life saving care when they can't afford it? Why not ask the 2 million Americans, that's 2 MILLION, that had to forgo cancer treatment in the U.S. last year because they could no longer afford it.
That guy's aunt is typical care that patient's in Universal system's receive. Keep drinking the koolaide.
MadHabber93 6 months ago
@MadHabber93 What 2 million americans are you talking about? References.
w w w. youtube. com/watch?v=84CDvTfz_y4
"That guy's aunt is typical care that patient's in Universal system's receive."
Obviously, this wasn't your aunt.
watch?v=iRPhltjPSFs
watch?v=e_QlI9d6ZZo
watch?v=z1TEsK0HCAo
Now where are those videos of americans who couldn't afford to stay alive.
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@jjenson2006 You want references on 2 million Americans forgoing cancer treatment. No problem, since you are too lazy to just google it.
BMJ 2010
"1 in 6 patients in the United States with cancer skips some of their continuing health care because of cost, concludes a new study. The authors conclude that more than two million of about 12 million Americans with a history of cancer “did not get needed medical services because of financial concerns.”
bmj. com/content/340/bmj.c3312.extract
MadHabber93 6 months ago
@MadHabber93 Talk about cherry picking stuff. First of all, this is just opinion, not fact. Secondly, cancer is pretty much terminal and some people just don't want to continue fighting it at some point as it is painful. Thirdly, the FDA forbids using drugs that may help cancer patients that haven't been approved by them, even if the patient is willing to accept it. Fourth, Our health care is only expensive as it is because of government. Ron Paul has said much about this many times before.
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@jjenson2006 Where are the videos of American patients who couldn't afford to stay alive? There are tonnes on here, just look for them. Or how about a study of 45,000 DEAD Americans every year who couldn't afford access to proper care. Google it sunshine.
You want to cherry pick a lady in a small Alberta city who was too lazy to phone another surgeon for her hip surgery? My 47 sister in law waited 2 months for hers. Cost... $0
How long does one wait in the U.S. who can't afford it?
MadHabber93 6 months ago
@MadHabber93 "There are tonnes on here"
...but you can't provide one.
"45,000 DEAD Americans every year who couldn't afford access to proper care. Google it sunshine."
I did and came up with nothing.
"How long does one wait in the U.S. who can't afford it?"
I don't know, I haven't heard any stories of anyone who had that problem.
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@jjenson2006 Google Harvard study on the 45,000 dead Americans. Heard of Harvard?
And the fact you 'haven't heard" of the problem of AMericans forgoing treatment due to cost tells me you are either stupid or ignorant. Probably both
For the 9 million Americans
"ScienceDaily (Mar. 16, 2011)An estimated 9 million working-age adults -- 57% of people who had health insurance through a job that was lost -- became uninsured in the last two years, according to the Commonwealth Fund."
MadHabber93 6 months ago
@MadHabber93 Whether the study is accurate or not it doesn't change the fact that they should have gotten catastrophic insurance (which is VERY cheap) and just paid out of pocket for wart removal, whooping cough, etc. Catastrophic insurance is cheap because it is very rare that someone would have to make a claim. Full coverage insurance means insurance has to pay out for everything AND people are more likely to go to a doctor, even when it's unnecessary. That's why it's SO expensive!
jjenson2006 6 months ago
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@jjenson2006 So, where are the videos of Americans? Here ya go.
watch?v=wLLVhneIBTc&feature=related
watch?v=lqyD2bCSTaQ&feature=related
watch?v=oO3hrQHjj3g&feature=related
watch?v=DKXEiGjNCME&feature=related
watch?v=DNHNCScYpX8&feature=related
There's much more, but I'll stop there.
But look at the last one. What does a father do, when it costs $750,000/year to treat his ill son, but has a lifetime cap of $1,000,000?? Nice system. Would NOT happen in Canada.
MadHabber93 6 months ago
@MadHabber93 LOL Every one of those videos is about people with financial problems due to hospital care, not about people being denied medical services and being forced to leave the country to get it somewhere else or die. You won't find any NOWHERE because EVERYONE ALWAYS gets taken care of REGARDLESS of their financial situation.
The reason why there's a long waiting list for specialists in canada is because there is a lack of specialists due to poor compensation for doctors.
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@jjenson2006 If they can't afford the treatment that IS being denied care. They don't pay they don't get the care. Period.
For your premise that our shortage is due to lack of compensation, Specialists in Canada are making mid to upper 6 figures. A good number making 7 figures. I work in Pharma and very closely with specialists everyday. They drive new high end cars, have million dollar homes and cottages, pools and private schools. They are the highest paid profession in Canada.
MadHabber93 6 months ago
@MadHabber93 " If they can't afford the treatment that IS being denied care. They don't pay they don't get the care. Period."
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE VIDEOS YOU POSTED ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN TAKEN CARE OFF!
I don't care about those who got stuck with bills. That's their fault! They should've had catastrophic insurance (which is VERY cheap). I don't care any more about their debts than I do about those who pulled 100% equity out of their no money down house at the peak of the bubble!
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@jjenson2006 And everyone you posted were people who also were either taken care of or would have been if they simply waited their turn. And isn't that nice you don't care about those stuck with bills. God hope you never lose your coverage, like 9 MILLION Americans did last year. Again, Millions of Americans simply FORGO treatment because THEY CAN"T AFFORD IT. DENIED DENIED DENIED due to COST.
MadHabber93 6 months ago
@MadHabber93 "And everyone you posted were people who also were either taken care of or would have been if they simply waited their turn. "
If you would have watched the movies, you would have learned that there were people who would have died if they waited as long as they were expected to.
I still haven't seen any references to the "9 million americans" who had to forgo treatment. Maybe someone who needed a wart removed was denied, but none of life threatening situations.
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@jjenson2006 The video's you provided, which I've seen many times before, are cherry picked bullshit. The one is of a lady waiting for a hip replacement, hardly life threatening. And the 9 million are people who lost their insurance last year. No insurance, no job, NO healthcare.
And VERY FEW Canadians go south for care. Another myth you are hanging on to. Google Phantoms in the Snow. And you do realized that the U.S. has a doc shortage right?? Nevermind.
MadHabber93 6 months ago
@MadHabber93
" And the 9 million are people who lost their insurance last year. No insurance, no job, NO healthcare."
....and I'm still waiting for you to provide a reference. Until you do, this is just bullshit.
"And VERY FEW Canadians go south for care."
Yes, only those who can afford to.
"do realized that the U.S. has a doc shortage"
Not before the new law was passed.
washingtonexaminer. com/op-eds/2009/06/canadians-seeking-health-care-have-wait-problem
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@MadHabber93
economix. blogs. nytimes. com/2009/07/15/how-much-do-doctors-in-other-countries-make/
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@jjenson2006 Your article is not accurate to the TRUE picture of salaries here. Of course I know that, BECAUSE I FUCKING LIVE HERE and personally know over 100 doctors.
Article for the province Ontario:
Canadian Press
Date: Wednesday Oct. 4, 2006 8:07 PM ET
"the number of doctors earning more than $476,000 annually to jump 56 per cent last year -- some averaging salaries upwards of $718,000"
And that's from 5 years ago. They are making even more now.
MadHabber93 6 months ago
@MadHabber93 From the same article:
"The salary cap was lifted because 1.2 million Ontario residents don't have a doctor, and the province wanted to encourage existing doctors to see more patients, Smitherman said."
"There are too few doctors, and of course we want to get as much productivity as we can out of those that we have, and financial incentive is the very best way known to do that."
Yup, this is why there is such a long waiting list and why canadians come here for treatment.
jjenson2006 6 months ago
@MadHabber93
watch?v=VPADFNKDhGM
jjenson2006 6 months ago
Speaking of knee surgery, my mother here in the US has private health care insurance (via employer). She had to wait around 3 or 4 months for surgery as the surgeon had a waiting list. Sure, she could have called more places and found something quicker a few more miles away but the point still is that she still had to wait and there is ALWAYS a fight to be had with the insurance company because they will always try to deny something--e.g. length of therapy which is crucial post-knee surgery.
ed1976atx 6 months ago
@ed1976atx Well, that's what happens when you have cheap medical insurance.
jjenson2006 6 months ago
When she says, "People complain about everything, right?" And then he says, "Right you're Canadian." lol that's hilarious.
MrMajungatholus1 6 months ago 12
Hmmm these wait times aren't necessarily the true story for all of Canada lol, it depends where you are... But the point is that in America, sure you get the surgery and your knee is fixed but now you can't afford your house. In Canada you'll wait say 6 months but you'll have a house to go home to when you leave the hospital.
leafs121688 7 months ago
Now, don't Canadians pay higher taxes because of the whole health care thing...
MoonOvIce 7 months ago
@MoonOvIce Our income taxes are very similar to yours. We actually pay less on a federal level, as the highest tax bracket federally is 29% vs. 35% in the States. We pay more in sales taxes, unless you live in Alberta. However, when you add up all the taxes you pay plus all the health insurance premiums, co-pays, deductibles, etc., and compare it to what we pay in taxes. We pay quite a bit less. And we never have to worry about losing our insurance with a job loss.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 Thanks for the reply, but "yours" doesn't apply to me since I'm not American, though I did live in the US for a number of years and that's why I speak English mostly fluently...
I actually saw this documentary for the first time when I lived in the US.
MoonOvIce 7 months ago
@MoonOvIce Sorry, I realized after you are in Uruguay.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MoonOvIce Yeah, but it's significantly less than what you'd pay in to a private insurance policy.
zanzalot 6 months ago
@TheSoulSearcher1 now now soul searcher, no name calling. be nice. be canadian :P
billboardnumber1 7 months ago
THATS IT. I'm coming to Canada, this is BS. xP
SOOLTV 7 months ago
@hypoelectron you're country sucks dick. it doesn't take the controversy around healthcare to see it.
ronnoc1990 8 months ago
Lol that's ridiculous. Our ER's are insane, I waited 6 hours once to get a small gauze dressing on a cut.
noob616 8 months ago
@noob616 Why would you go to an ER to have a dressing done a cut? Was it after hours? And I wouldn't mind waiting a few hours for that, knowing I will be seen right away if I walked in with chest pains. Which I have. Its called triage.
MadHabber93 8 months ago
@MadHabber93 Because it was a quite deep cut, and I thought it could have been stitched, but that turned out to be an impossibility. The point is, that in good private US hospitals, people don't wait 6 hours for care. It just doesn't happen.
noob616 8 months ago
@noob616 You're right, not 6 hours, try 15 hours that I waited in a Private for profit hospital in Dallas. One with a great reputation.
You waited because you were not a true emergency. You are naive to believe that waits like yours do not happen in the U.S., when it does.
MadHabber93 8 months ago
@MadHabber93 We can trade horror stories forever, but it doesn't seem like we're ever going to come to an agreement. My support of a private health care system, is because I believe capitalism and competition brings the best product for the consumer. I don't like using the US as an example of private health care, because it really isn't. The US government has its hands in health care (price fixing, etc), and that's part of why it's such a broken system. Bottom line, let's agree to disagree :)
noob616 8 months ago
@noob616 True we will definitely agree to disagree. Btw, the U.S. gov't only has it hands for a small portion of the population, and ask them if they'd like to give up that coverage. I've heard the argument before about capitalism and competition in healthcare. That's why Americans under private insurance are treated like a commodity, free to be discarded at any whim. And I want my doctors working together to find the best solution for my care, not competing against each other for it.
MadHabber93 8 months ago
@MadHabber93 By have their hands in it, I didn't mean providing care so much as altering the system (they set the prices for operations so they can't fall). The US medical system is not a true capitalist system, and doesn't allow for competition. I believe competition is the best way to go, because if a doctor or hospital isn't doing its job properly, it closes down because they don't make any money.
noob616 8 months ago
@noob616 If a doctor isn't doing their job properly, word gets around, and patients will stop going there on their own. Same goes with hospitals. We aren't handcuffed to go to only certain hospitals or certain doctors.
And the U.S. system is one of the most capitalistic on the planet. Many institutions and doctors bill what they want.
For our system, prices are Negotiated with hospitals and doctors, not just set.
MadHabber93 8 months ago 6
MadHabber93 = how many Canadians are docs up there allowed to kill before it becomes a problem? Or is it up to the patient to steer clear of killer docs? Sounds great. Can't wait for murder ball bs canada crap care to come to U.S.A. ......seeeeesh it's a madhouse what Canadians accept so it's FO FREE!
memama2 4 months ago
@memama2 How many are they allowed to kill? Link please. Thanks.
More claims no facts. Just fucking retarded jibberish.
Fuck I love you.
Beartit69 4 months ago