Pismo Beach Open Air 1 of 9

[smujismuj]

You are using circular reasoning to arrive at your "facts".

Here's a question I ask believers:

What would you know about your deity if no other human being had ever brought it up?

[apeek33]

I sent you a PM. Posting long answers in these little boxes is a pain. Hope you understand.

[smujismuj]

People used to believe in many gods.

They thought lightening and thunder were divinely inspired and danced and took drugs to fathom the desires of their deities.

I wouldn't really care what anyone else believes if they weren't constantly shoving down everyone's throat and claiming anyone who doesn't believe what they do is doomed.

Wow, scare tactics..."believe in me, or suffer for eternity." Your god sounds like a paranoid, petulant egomaniac.

Something the human species might invent.

[apeek33]

Another straw-man argument Smujismuj. The fact that people used to believe in many gods IS NOT PROOF their isn't a Creator.

You DO care what everyone else believes (or at least what I believe) Smujismuj. If you didn't, you wouldn't have said that what I believe and preach is, "institutionalized hear/say, perpetuated by ignorance, fear, and peer-pressure". If you didn't care, you wouldn't be concerned about what I or anyone else had to say in regard to God, Judgment Day, Jesus Christ, etc.

[apeek33]

Let me ask you this friend. How is expressing my faith, with passionate pleading for YOU to come to your senses, "shoving it down everyone's throat?" I'm not forcing anyone to listen or respond to me at all.

[apeek33]

You claim (as many do) that it's scare tactics. Does it scare you? If you say no, then why would you make the claim? If it doesn't scare you -- then your claim is baseless. I agree though -- Judgment Day is going to be fearful for you if you will not REPENT and BELIEVE the gospel.

[apeek33]

Allow me to make this statement and then try to reason with you.  GOD'S WRATH TOWARD UNREPENTANT SINNERS IS JUST.

[apeek33]

Smujisuj -- just last week a man down the road broke into a young woman's home at around 4am. He strangled her and tried to rape her. The good news is that she beat him up and he fled before doing any serious damage. As you know, that's not always the outcome.

[apeek33]

Anyhow, the criminal was caught. What should a good judge do with this guy? Do you think it would be right for the judge to just sweep this guy's crime under the judicial rug?  Or should the criminal be punished for the crime he committed? We know the answer.

[apeek33]

In God's eyes, you and I are grievous criminals because we have preferred to worship the creation instead of the Creator. Our actions prove our guilt. You've lied, stolen, used God's Name disrespectfully, and looked lustfully, been greedy, had foul thoughts, etc. You friend, are a slave to your own evil desires.

Who's the injured party in all this? This analogy is imperfect but I think helpful.

[apeek33]

If I tell a lie to my son, it's wrong but the consequences are not a big deal.  If I lie to my wife, I will sleep on the couch. If I lie to my employer, I could be fired. If I lie to the Federal Government, I could be thrown in jail.

[apeek33]

What changed? I told a lie in each case right? The answer is obvious -- The seriousness of an insult rises with the dignity of the one insulted. The Creator of the universe is infinitely worthy of respect and admiration and loyalty. Therefore, failure to love him is not trivial- it's treason. It defames God and destroys human happiness.

[apeek33]

Since God IS just, he will not sweep your crimes under the rug of the universe. He feels holy wrath against you. You deserve to be punished -- just like any guilty criminal standing in front of a judge.

[apeek33]

But here is the GOOD NEWS -- it's the heart of what I believe and preach. God is just but He is also loving. His love for sinners takes care of the guilt and sin issue for those who will humble themselves, repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

[apeek33]

Jesus Christ never sinned. He lived a perfectly righteous life. The life He lived is the life that God requires from you and me (but we've already seen that we are guilty of a sinful life). But in spite of our guilt before a holy God, to demonstrate His great, deep, and wonderful love of, He hung on the Cross of Calvary and suffered the judgment we rightly deserve in Hell. You see, on the Cross, God the Father punished His perfect SON as our substitute.

[apeek33]

Based on the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, God can allow us to leave the courtroom of eternity (so to speak). We did the crime and Jesus paid our fine. It's not based on OUR righteousness but on the righteousness/merit of Jesus Christ, who died in our place, rose again on the third day and ascended up into heaven and rules and reigns there.

[apeek33]

In light of that, our response should be a response of humility and brokeness over a very kind God making THE way for us guilty criminals to be forgiven. Please Smujismuj, I beg you, let go of pride and soften your heart. What else does He need to do to prove that He loves you? Repent (turn from you sin) and throw yourself on the mercy of God in Jesus Christ. He will not cast you away if you come to Him.

[apeek33]

But -- if you remain hard and stiff-necked, the ONE you reject, and the ONE whom you've wrongly offended by your sin will be the ONE who casts you into Hell-fire. Please Smujismuj, please don't stay this way. I beg you to turn to Him while He may be found.

[smujismuj]

The burden of presenting evidence is your job, friend.

You are postulating that there is a knowable creative entity that "created" humanity "in "his" own image".

I've no idea what process led to the existence of humanity or the earth or the trillions of stars.

How about just admitting that...that you don't know how we got here instead of embracing a belief system that was tossed into the already convoluted mix of explanations.

Look at all the beliefs that have been debunked throughout history.

[apeek33]

Yes and No -- It is not my duty to make you believe. It is only my duty to present the facts. If you reject them, that's between you and God. I did all I can. On the other hand, as I said before, you cannot have a creation without a Creator. I agree that this isn't proof of WHO the Creator is. But nonetheless, it's hard evidence that none can refute.

[apeek33]

You have no idea what process led to the creation -- ok. Do you have any idea what process led to the creation of your computer? Your car? Your cell phone? Of course you do: maybe DELL, FORD, SAMSUNG... My point: nothing we see, or even do not see, created itself -- THAT IS A FACT -- use your reasoning. Have you ever seen something design and create itself?

[apeek33]

My common sense and reason will not allow me to cling to blind faith. There is no evidence that we came from nothing or monkeys -- that isn't science. The reasonable conclusion is that there MUST be a Creator if there is a creation.

Ok -- I admit that even this isn't EVEDECNE of who this Creator is. But there is knowable evidence for who the Creator is elsewhere.

[smujismuj]

o.k., how about this:

Religion is institutionalized hear/say, perpetuated by ignorance, fear, and peer-pressure.

There is no sharable evidence for any of it.

Have you watched "Zeitgeist" on youtube or Google Video.

It's sarcastic tone aside, the information about how Christianity is a compendium of previous superstitions is quite valid.

Why are people so compelled to embrace hear/say?

I don't get it.

[apeek33]

Smujismuj - I have watched the Zeitgeist video.  (Yawn) These conspiracy theory folk need to come up with some new material. Many of the claims the author has made in attempt to debunk Christianity are old and inaccurate. Sad to say though -- many will put their faith in what Peter Joseph has said in this movie.

[apeek33]

On the other hand, I would be a fool to say that religion has never been manipulated by man to manipulate man. Many greedy, power-hungry men have used religion for their own personal gain. However, this is NOT EVIDENCE that the claims Jesus Christ made about God, eternity and Himself are not true. This is a straw-man argument -- a red herring.

[apeek33]

Smujismuj -- you say that there is "no sharable evidence." I believe there is. The problem is, most will not receive the evidence because they hate the idea of humbling themselves before their Creator. This idea is repulsive to a pride-filled, self-indulgent humanity -- end result -- we have the evolution THEORY, presented and believed (faith) my most as evidence that there is no God.

[apeek33]

Smujismuj -- Creation is the best scientific evidence for a Creator (even this is old argumentation but it's accurate). You cannot have a creation without a creator (this can be tested in a laboratory). Next you have your conscience. If you're not suppressing the truth, you know that you've done things in your life that you're ashamed of. You know your guilt. You also know that you are accountable to your Creator.

[apeek33]

ONE ISSUE that you must come to terms with: Is Jesus Christ Who He Claimed To Be?

[apeek33]

Below is a six part series of youtube videos for your consideration Smujismuj. Please lay aside any of your presuppositions and listen to this scholarly response to Zeitgeist.

Part 1 of 6: Search for video AfsIEwI3LNA

I pray that you come to know the TRUTH -- He will set you free.

[smujismuj]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[apeek33]

Thanks for the helpful input...smujismuj