I guess this is what he does for a living. Doubts other people's religions in public. I mean, he even made a muslim video. I say there CAN be cool christians and mormons. Like shaycarl, christina grimmie, etc.
If the Bible is a Catholic book, how can Catholics account for the passage, "A bishop then, must be blameless, married but once, reserved, prudent, of good conduct, hospitable, a teacher...He should rule well his own household, keeping his children under control and perfectly respectful. For if a man cannot rule his own household, how is he to take care of the church of God?" (1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5). The Catholic Church does not allow a bishop to marry, while the Bible says "he must be married."
The catholic cult BANNED people from even OWNING a Bible in English. They are responsible for the torture and murder of MILLIONS of innocent Christians. Even as recent as 1984 there is a "cannon law" that forbids Bibles to be published unless they have been approved by the pope!
@Troul478 1 Nephi 13 - here's what McConkie said about this:
"It is also to the Book of Mormon to which we turn for the plainest description of the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church. Nephi saw this ‘church which is the most abominable above all other churches’ in vision. He ‘saw the devil that he was the foundation of it’ and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have been a part of this satanic organization."(McConkie [1958], 130.)
@Troul478 1 Nephi 13 - here's what McConkie said about this:
"It is also to the Book of Mormon to which we turn for the plainest description of the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church. Nephi saw this ‘church which is the most abominable above all other churches’ in vision. He ‘saw the devil that he was the foundation of it’ and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have been a part of this satanic organization."(McConkie [1958],)
@cburton103 Brother McConkie was free to say and write whatever he liked. He made many comments which neither reflect our scriptures nor my opinion. But, as I said, he was a free man...
Actually, you misunderstood me. My question was: Can you give me the verse IN THE BOOK OF MORMON where the Catholic Church is called Satan's church?
@Troul478 True, but it seems likely that McConkie's opinions reflect the thoughts most consistent with Mormonism at the time.
Sorry for misunderstanding you. I'm not aware of any explicit references to the Catholic Church from the Book of Mormon. What is the modern understanding of the reference to the "great and abominable church" in 1 Nephi 13? God bless.
@cburton103 "True, but it seems likely that McConkie's opinions reflect the thoughts most consistent with Mormonism at the time." Maybe, maybe not. When McConkie's (in)famous book "Mormon Doctrine" was published, the First Presidency tried to convince him to stop it or edit it massively. So, you really have to be careful with McConkie statements.
The "great and abominable church" includes every person and organization that tries to lead people away from Christ. God bless.
@Troul478 I truly wish it was limited to just McConkie, but I do hope that you are correct that the CC is no longer specifically interpreted this way frequently.
So would "the great and abominable church" include everyone outside the LDS church to some degree, or just people who actively seek to spread secularism as they understand it?
Do you have any articles that explain how people can know what are official beliefs of LDS and how they are made official? This has always interested me. GB
@Troul478 Interesting article. So am I correct in understanding that for something new to become official LDS doctrine, it must be introduced by the First Presidency and then voted on by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles? Roughly how frequently does this occur?
@cburton103 This is the minimum requirement. The article even talks about new doctrine which "will be sustained by the body of the Church". So, the "ideal" procedure is, that in General Conference the general membership of the Church give their consent. It is reflected in the Official Declaration-2 in the D&C.
In D&C you have Section 138 which was added in 1918. Next in line is the Official Declaration-2 from 1978. So, nowadays this does not happen very often.
@Troul478 Also, you say that the Bible, BoM, DaC, PoGP is your doctrine. I'm aware that the DaC is more doctrinally explicit than works such as the Bible and the BoM, but what interpretation of these other works is considered doctrine? Thanks for taking the time to explain these things, I enjoy learning about LDS.
@cburton103 You would probably like to have a "list of official LDS doctrines". It does not exist. D&C often gives us the basis of interpretation for the other scriptures. Apart from that we have a considerable freedom of interpretation.
Note that we do not have the long history of the Roman Catholic Church of theological controversies and councils where certain doctrines were pinned down in every detail. Btw. does such a "list of doctrines" exist in Roman Catholicism?
@Troul478 I'm not aware of a list of Catholic doctrine. We do have public records from most Church councils, early church fathers, etc. Also, if it's in the Catechism you can pretty much take it to the bank (in my Catholic eyes, of course!).
Haha if you're not tired of answering questions yet, I might have a couple more. When LDS go to lessons before high school in the morning, for instance, what are they taught out of, and what do LDS use as a reference? Is there something like the CCC?
@cburton103 "So would "the great and abominable church" include everyone outside the LDS church to some degree?"
Interesting question, but very hard to answer. It will also include some within the LDS Church, I guess. :-) But, anyway, the Lord will be the judge. We are just supposed to spread his Gospel without judging anybody.
@pianoplayingmormon 1 Nephi 13 - here's what McConkie said about this (1958):
"It is also to the Book of Mormon to which we turn for the plainest description of the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church. Nephi saw this ‘church which is the most abominable above all other churches’ in vision. He ‘saw the devil that he was the foundation of it’ and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have been a part of this satanic organization."
@pianoplayingmormon See my response to Troul if you're interested. Granted, this does not necessarily mean that today's LDS members interpret this as the Catholic Church. Has the interpretation changed?
@GiftoAll So true. Every word in Mormonism has a different meaning. Jesus to God. Mercy to blood atonement. It is witchcraft in its linguistics.They are Greek Gnostic-Jewish Kabalahist's
@GiftoAll in Mormonism Lying develops godhood. Like at the characters Mountain Meadows Massacre. They lied sooo good they had to kill eveyone. Had to. At MMM Words like "decoy" and "atone" were used. The Result::. Mostly unarmed women and children murdered and 17 kidnapped. Today Mormons use words like "fear" to explain the actions of those Males Under the Endowment Oaths. If so I wonder what an angry aggressive male Mormon under the Endowment Oaths could accomplish? Heavens Gates?
@IExposeMormonism I would hope that history wouldn't repeat. Wishfull thinking? If church leaders demanded a force, the oath keepers would lock and load. I've heard warning shots from some members about the country going into the crapper and what they were prepared to do. Hand me the gun ma, gonna protect our mormon food storage.
Hey. Hey, guy. Hey. Uh. Uh, hey. Listen. Uh, hey. The Bible was translated from Hebrew to Latin and to Latin to English, and in these translations, the Bible was changed untold millions of times. Not just in language, but the Kings James scholars changed whole passages when they could not determine the meaning of the Latin Bible.
The Bible is the word of God, as is the Book of Mormon.
@JohnRhysMusician Fundamentalist get so mad at Mormons for being Mormons, but Its one of the few churches that actually treat people right, and give more humanitarian aid then the American government. I love Mormon juice and potato pearls.
@Indutrial321 treats people right? Of course if u are hetero & mormon. Doesn't seem like the Mormon Church cares much about equal rights for gay people. The LDS Church hasn't done what Jesus said: "Whatever you wish men to do for you, do likewise also for them..." (Matt. 7:12 Lamsa)
@JohnRhysMusician The Book of Mormon has been changed nearly 4,000 times. According to Jerald & Sandra Tanner, the exact number is 3,913. I have the Book they made where they compared the original 1830 edition with the current Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith didn't know how to write the KJV Old English very well & made many spelling mistakes as well.
All of the changes to the Book of Mormon have been to correct gramatical errors. There have not been any doctrinal or scriptural changes to the Book of Mormon itself.
In Genesis, a correct book by your standards, states clearly, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, in the image of God created he him; male AND female created he them." By the way, who is talking here. That Great I Am. Who is that? You better read more carefully.
Interesting how he says that "the Bible never changes," but Martin Luther took seven books out of the Bible. Because of this, Protestant Bibles are missing parts of the Word of God. Is this not a "change?"
@kiwichristian2009 A slight correction needs to be made to your statement. The Church merely defined what HAD BEEN USED as the Bible since the first centuries of the Church.
@tdmavens Wrong. The apocrypha was NEVER accepted by the jews or initially by Jerome because of the numerous errors and chronological errors. When you say "the church" you are referring to the CATHOLIC organisation, NOT the Christian church established by Christ. There IS a huge difference, my friend. Take care.
i have personally been studying hebrew for a while. there are many references in the bible text to a plurality of gods. mainly the world elohim, if you study hebrew you will find out quickly pretty much everything that ends with im (eem) is plural masculine noun. Elohim, the gods, if you wish.
furthermore, adam and eve have become like unto us, knowing good from evil.
well...ur retarted...ok....us mormons read the bible ok....the book of mormon is just another testoment of "Jesus Christ"...if u would actually read the book of mormon tht u will find out tht it is also a journal of different followers of christ and their experiences.....i do not believe in all tht the book of mormon say....nor do i believe in all the bible says....
ADAM came into the garden of Eden with a CELESTIAL BODY and one of his many wives, he is our Father and GOD. The Father, not the Holy Spirit, CONCEIVED Jesus with the Virgin Mary. Brigham Young JD V1 p50
In what way did ADAM CONCEIVE JESUS WITH THE VIRGIN MARY?
This is the truth my friend: deuternomy 18:20 "But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name,which i have not commanded him to speak,or who speaks in the name of other gods,that prophet shall die." you already know what happened to joseph smith.
God the Father and His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, are glorified, exalted, resurrected, beings, and from the moment of the appearance of the Father and the Son to Joseph Smith, we have known their true nature."
- Offical LDS publication, Ensign, June 1998, Apostle Russell Ballard, "Building Bridges of Understanding
God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret... It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us. Here, then, is eternal life--to know that only wise and true God, and you have got to learn how to become Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you. ..
The Bible contradicts itself so therefore it has to have errors. For instance it says there are no Gods beside me in Isaiah 43 as you pointed out and yet in the book of Acts Steven sees Jesus on the right Hand of God. One God standing next to another God. Then at the baptism of Jesus we hear the voice of God the Father, see God the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove and Jesus is nearby being baptized by John the Baptist.
Seeing their are contradictions in the bible, Wouldn't having scripture from a different part of the world be helpful in figuring out which biblical contradiction is correct. There are many translations of the bible yet it is without error. By the same standard there can be different editions of the Book of Mormon and it can still be without error. It is a translation and as modern language changes so can the words and grammer in the Book of Mormon.
Your argument is illogical. Why would the bible contain a warning to those who would change the words of John the Revelator if it weren't possible to do so? The bible is not infallible because it has passed through so many human hands. If you are basing your faith on the infallibility of the bible, then you are doomed to being misled by someone else's false translation or jaded interpretation. The Holy Spirit is the only infallible source of truth who will teach you all truth.
so do you worship God, or the bible? God's word is inerrant.
You speak of changes in the book of mormon---WHAT ABOUT THE CHANGES IN THE BIBLE???????????? Seriously? Your own logic would lead you to believe that the bible isn't the word of God. Who translated the bible? It didn't just fall out of the sky, my friend.
Acts 24 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so WORSHIP I the God of my fathers, BELIEVING ALL things which are WRITTEN in the law and in the prophets: And have hope toward God
TESTIMONY of the BoM
"And now, if there are FAULTS they are the MISTAKES OF MEN; wherefore, CONDEMN NOT the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ."
ADAM was "Father of our spirits" Brigham Young Feb 19 1854
ADAM came into the garden of Eden WITH a CELESTIAL BODY" & "conceived Jesus with the Virgin Mary" Brigham Young Gen Conf Apr 1852 JD v1 p50
"ADAM is the father of our spirits" B Young Oct 8 1854 Gen Conf
"How much UNBELIEF exists in the minds of Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular DOCTRINE which I revealed to them, and which GOD REVEALED TO ME - namely that ADAM is our father and God" B Young Jun 18 1873
You must know from reading the Bible that Satan is masquerading as "angel of light", if that is so, he is deceiving masses in "apparitions of Mary" that Catholics proclaim in Fatima,Lourdes,etc as well as so called angel Gabriel appearing to Mohammad in the cave and forming a Muslim religion, as well as angel called Mormoni appearing to Joseph Smith. Please whatever you do don't be deceived cry out to God for help and he will reveal himself to you, he did to me through His Word the Bible.
It contains the sermons (some at Gen Conf) WORDS of the then LIVING 'prophets' in those words we can NOT have ANY CONFIDENCE lol
"In addition to these four books of scripture the INSPIRED WORDS of our living prophets BECOME SCRIPTURE to us Their words come to us through CONFERENCES, CHURCH PUBLICATTIONS and instructions to local priesthood leaders We believe all that God has revealed all that he does now reveal"
Once again bdplist shows lack of understanding as to what constitutes official LDS doctrine and what doesn't. Being an "official pub of the LDS" does not make it official doctrine. To become official doctrine, the J of D would have to be presented at a general conference, and a vote of acceptance taken. That will never happen.
"I have learned by experience that there is but one God that pertains to this people, and He is the God that pertains to this earth the first man. That FIRST MAN SENT HIS OWN SON to redeem the world, to redeem his brethren; his life was taken, his blood shed, that our sins might be remitted." Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 4, p. 1
"President Young followed & made many good remarks . . . He said that our God was Father Adam. He was the Father of the Savior Jesus Christ--Our God was no more or less than Adam . . . Michael the Archangel." Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, February 19, 1854
ADAM was "Father of our spirits" Brigham Young Feb 19 1854
ADAM came into the garden of Eden WITH a CELESTIAL BODY" & "conceived Jesus with the Virgin Mary" Brigham Young Gen Conf Apr 1852 JD v1 p50
"ADAM is the father of our spirits" B Young Oct 8 1854 Gen Conf
"How much UNBELIEF exists in the minds of Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular DOCTRINE which I revealed to them, and which GOD REVEALED TO ME - namely that ADAM is our father and God" B Young Jun 18 1873
you miss understanding brother.LDS doctrine concerning we will become god in life to come is mean we will resplace God, but mean we will like GOD perfect and exaltion .this so deep meaning if you never ENTER into the Holy Temple you will never undestand this doctrine cause the person who willing to do the what the Lord require thats only the thing will be reveal please dont judge others churches or teaching if you won't be judge let them believe what they want to beleive
How much UNBELIEF exists in the minds of Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular DOCTRINE which I REVEALED to them, and which God REVEALED to me - namely that Adam is our father and God' Brigham Young
1. Adam (Eve's husband)is not God the Father. How hard is it not to see that? No LDS believes that the created man Adam is God the Father. Yet, anti-LDS persist in claiming that LDS do believe it. bdplist, you are "correcting" no one, lol. You are trying to make us believe something that we've never believed, and never will believe. Claiming a work to be official doctrine when it isn't (JofD), does not make it so. Show me ONE quote that states the JofD IS accepted official doctrine. You can't.
ARE YOU SAYING WE CAN NOT TRUST THIS LDS APOSTLE????
APOSTLE George Q Cannon JD PREFACE V8
"The Journal of Discourses ranks as one of the STANDARD WORKS of the Church and every rightminded Saint will CERTAINly welcome with joy every Number as it comes forth from the press"
bdplist...you make the same mistakes that most anti-Mormons and others who disagree with LDS beliefs and doctrine make: you assume that just because an LDS general authority (prophet, apostle, etc) said it, that makes it official doctrine. Adam (Eve's hubby) being God the Father was not, is not now, and never will be doctrine, because it's just NOT TRUE. Your "quote" from BY needs a source, m'man. I have thousands of LDS works on my computer, and could not find that quote anywhere.
"The adam god doctrine was received by revelation"? BY knew perfectly well that Adam, Eve's mate, was not God the Father. All LDS know it as well, too. Adam walked and talked with God in the garden if Eden. I'm always amused when some non-LDS tries to dictate what LDS "really" believe, or what we "should" be believing. Most of them, like you, may have read about what LDS believe, but your trouble is that you don't UNDERSTAND it.
Nice try, bdplist, but the JoD is not official doctrine of the church. We read from it, quote from it, but that does not make it doctrine. Do some research on the origins of the JoD and you'll understand WHY, as a body of work, it never has been, is not now, and never will be official doctrine of the church. Oh, and do yourself a favor: don't pretend to dictate to LDS what constitutes official LDS doctrine and what doesn't. Thank you.
If you LDS were not so IGNORANT of your own religion I would not have to spend so much time correcting you.
When do you speak at GENERAL CONFERENCE?
Are you one of the "prophets" counselors?
What authority do you have?
DON'T PRETEND!
I prefer authoratative sources
APOSTLE George Q Cannon JD PREFACE V8 "The Journal of Discourses ranks as one of the STANDARD WORKS of the Church and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every Number as it comes forth from the press"
"STANDARD WORKS" does not automatically translate to "official doctrine", bdplist. And you have yet to provide a quote stating such. Also, I guess I'm wondering why you are trying to force me to beleive something that is not official LDS doctrine, that I don't beleive to begin with, and that YOU certainly don't believe (i.e. Adam is God the Father). I've never denied that LDS do read from the JofD, but we also read from other non-doctrinal works also. Nothing wrong with that, that I can see.
The Journal Of Discourses is listed as an official publication of the LDS Church
"In addition to these four books of scripture, the INSPIRED WORDS of our living prophets become scripture to us. Their words come to us through conferences, CHURCH PUBLICATTIONS, and instructions to local priesthood leaders. We believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal Articles of Faith, 1982 ed, 1:9.
Who was the Savior begotten by?....Who did beget him? His Father, and his father is our God, and the Father of our spirits, and he is the framer of the body, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Who is he? He is Father ADAM; Michael; the Ancient of Days. Brigham Young, Feb. 19, 1854
Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father ADAM. There are many who know that DOCTRINE to be true. Young Oct 7 1857
Adam came into the garden of Eden with a celestial body and one of his many wives, he is our Father and God. The Father, not the Holy Spirit, conceived Jesus with the Virgin Mary. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, p. 50.)
1873 The DOCTRINE was received by REVELATION
How much unbelief exists in the minds of Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me - namely that Adam is our father and God' Brigham Young
IS 41 That they may see, and know, and consider and understand...Produce your cause...bring forth your strong reasons...SHEW US what shall happen let them shew the former things what they be that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them or DECLARE us THINGS for TO COME Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may KNOW THAT YE ARE gods...
Nice try with the just a friendly chat approach. Fell short, however. I have evidence from a more sure source than anything any person can come up with to the contrary. It's called a witness from the Holy Ghost...the highest evidence there is.
OAMission...you'll have to come up with something more original than that. You may have a "witness" behind the statements you just made, but it didn't come from the Holy Ghost. Nice try, though.
You have no authority but that you assume unto yourself to know what is actually "true" concerning God and the Plan of Salvation. You follow the doctrines of men, not God. God didn't even put your little "idol" Bible book together, men did. They said what would go in it and stay out of it over and over. Get a clue. If you think mormons have no validity, you have even less.
It isn't talking about the Bible in Psalms. The Bible didn't exist back then. I never said that I didn't believe in God. What I am saying is your argument lacks merit. Please waste your time elsewhere.
in the bible he is telling you to put no "god" (such as the ancient egyptians) before him and/or do not worship another God, and when he says BESIDES him, he is saying he is the only God of this world.
Most of the the 4,000 changes in the Book of Mormon were things like the addition of chapters, verses, etc. The original Book of Mormon didn't have them, of course. As for the Bible never changing, which version of the Bible are you referring to? Are all the Bible versions 100% correct? They can't possibly be. Therefore, which one is the "most correct"?
OA...little need to change it? I'm sure that if you tell the general authorities of the church that, they will realize their mistake. :oP I'm not worried about changes to "historical" documents, because my testimony is not based on past church history, only on church doctrine and a witness from God of the truth. Joseph Smith said that the book of mormon was the most correct block of any on earth. He never claimed that it was perfect.
OAM..."tell the truth jedi"? (this is JediMormon, by the way. James doesn't like me pointing out his dishonest statements and so keeps blocking my usernames). I always tell the truth to the best of my ability. I have no reason to lie about my beliefs. You mention "major changes" then cite 3 from the Book of Mormon. You state that "LDS beliefs went thru major changes", but cite no changes. Name ONE major doctrinal change that has occured besides the 1978 revelation allowing the priesthood to all.
The Book of Mormon explains the Godhead,which concept is ONE God comprised of three separate and distinct personages, as per the BoM verses you just presented. God the Father is an individual, as are Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. LDS doctrine states that God the Father and Jesus have glorified bodies of flesh and bone. The HG is a personage of spirit.
the holy bible never changes as long as it is translated correctly... many people see the same words and figure different things out of it that is why there are so many diff. religions. The bible is true, if u understand what it is saying. We will not become Gods like Heavenly Father... he will always and forever be our father our God... Godhood is being like him, but not him, Jesus became like his father in heaven and is as a God in Godhood however he did not replace God himself.
I guess this is what he does for a living. Doubts other people's religions in public. I mean, he even made a muslim video. I say there CAN be cool christians and mormons. Like shaycarl, christina grimmie, etc.
snowangel246 7 months ago
"There are more differences in our manuscripts [of the NT] than there are words in the New Testament." Bart D. Ehrman
Troul478 1 year ago
dude just to let you know the lds church believe that both men and women can attain god hood but i see where your coming from
whymanwhy42 1 year ago
If the Bible is a Catholic book, how can Catholics account for the passage, "A bishop then, must be blameless, married but once, reserved, prudent, of good conduct, hospitable, a teacher...He should rule well his own household, keeping his children under control and perfectly respectful. For if a man cannot rule his own household, how is he to take care of the church of God?" (1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5). The Catholic Church does not allow a bishop to marry, while the Bible says "he must be married."
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
The catholic cult BANNED people from even OWNING a Bible in English. They are responsible for the torture and murder of MILLIONS of innocent Christians. Even as recent as 1984 there is a "cannon law" that forbids Bibles to be published unless they have been approved by the pope!
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
BOM says that the Catholic religion is Satan's church, yet, it is Interesting to note that even the mormons use the KJV Bible.
jlcarter1970 1 year ago
@jlcarter1970 Can give me the verse in the Book of Mormon where the Catholic Church is called Satan's church?
Troul478 1 year ago
@Troul478 1 Nephi 13 - here's what McConkie said about this:
"It is also to the Book of Mormon to which we turn for the plainest description of the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church. Nephi saw this ‘church which is the most abominable above all other churches’ in vision. He ‘saw the devil that he was the foundation of it’ and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have been a part of this satanic organization."(McConkie [1958], 130.)
cburton103 5 months ago
@Troul478 1 Nephi 13 - here's what McConkie said about this:
"It is also to the Book of Mormon to which we turn for the plainest description of the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church. Nephi saw this ‘church which is the most abominable above all other churches’ in vision. He ‘saw the devil that he was the foundation of it’ and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have been a part of this satanic organization."(McConkie [1958],)
cburton103 5 months ago
@cburton103 Brother McConkie was free to say and write whatever he liked. He made many comments which neither reflect our scriptures nor my opinion. But, as I said, he was a free man...
Actually, you misunderstood me. My question was: Can you give me the verse IN THE BOOK OF MORMON where the Catholic Church is called Satan's church?
Troul478 5 months ago
@Troul478 True, but it seems likely that McConkie's opinions reflect the thoughts most consistent with Mormonism at the time.
Sorry for misunderstanding you. I'm not aware of any explicit references to the Catholic Church from the Book of Mormon. What is the modern understanding of the reference to the "great and abominable church" in 1 Nephi 13? God bless.
cburton103 5 months ago
@cburton103 "True, but it seems likely that McConkie's opinions reflect the thoughts most consistent with Mormonism at the time." Maybe, maybe not. When McConkie's (in)famous book "Mormon Doctrine" was published, the First Presidency tried to convince him to stop it or edit it massively. So, you really have to be careful with McConkie statements.
The "great and abominable church" includes every person and organization that tries to lead people away from Christ. God bless.
Troul478 5 months ago
@Troul478 I truly wish it was limited to just McConkie, but I do hope that you are correct that the CC is no longer specifically interpreted this way frequently.
So would "the great and abominable church" include everyone outside the LDS church to some degree, or just people who actively seek to spread secularism as they understand it?
Do you have any articles that explain how people can know what are official beliefs of LDS and how they are made official? This has always interested me. GB
cburton103 5 months ago
Comment removed
Troul478 5 months ago
@cburton103 "Do you have any articles that explain how people can know what are official beliefs of LDS and how they are made official?"
Another great question. Thank you! By far most of our critics are not even interested to learn that.
The short answer to that is: What is in our standard works (Bible, BoM. Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price) is our doctrine.
You will also find a good and concise article, when you do a Google search for :"What is "official" LDS doctrine".
Troul478 5 months ago
@Troul478 Interesting article. So am I correct in understanding that for something new to become official LDS doctrine, it must be introduced by the First Presidency and then voted on by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles? Roughly how frequently does this occur?
cburton103 5 months ago
@cburton103 This is the minimum requirement. The article even talks about new doctrine which "will be sustained by the body of the Church". So, the "ideal" procedure is, that in General Conference the general membership of the Church give their consent. It is reflected in the Official Declaration-2 in the D&C.
In D&C you have Section 138 which was added in 1918. Next in line is the Official Declaration-2 from 1978. So, nowadays this does not happen very often.
Troul478 5 months ago
@Troul478 I'm aware of the change made in 1978, but what was changed in 1918?
cburton103 5 months ago
@Troul478 Also, you say that the Bible, BoM, DaC, PoGP is your doctrine. I'm aware that the DaC is more doctrinally explicit than works such as the Bible and the BoM, but what interpretation of these other works is considered doctrine? Thanks for taking the time to explain these things, I enjoy learning about LDS.
cburton103 5 months ago
@cburton103 You would probably like to have a "list of official LDS doctrines". It does not exist. D&C often gives us the basis of interpretation for the other scriptures. Apart from that we have a considerable freedom of interpretation.
Note that we do not have the long history of the Roman Catholic Church of theological controversies and councils where certain doctrines were pinned down in every detail. Btw. does such a "list of doctrines" exist in Roman Catholicism?
Troul478 5 months ago
@Troul478 I'm not aware of a list of Catholic doctrine. We do have public records from most Church councils, early church fathers, etc. Also, if it's in the Catechism you can pretty much take it to the bank (in my Catholic eyes, of course!).
Haha if you're not tired of answering questions yet, I might have a couple more. When LDS go to lessons before high school in the morning, for instance, what are they taught out of, and what do LDS use as a reference? Is there something like the CCC?
cburton103 5 months ago
@cburton103 "So would "the great and abominable church" include everyone outside the LDS church to some degree?"
Interesting question, but very hard to answer. It will also include some within the LDS Church, I guess. :-) But, anyway, the Lord will be the judge. We are just supposed to spread his Gospel without judging anybody.
Troul478 5 months ago
@jlcarter1970 Really? Where in the Book of Mormon does it say that?
pianoplayingmormon 7 months ago
@pianoplayingmormon 1 Nephi 13 - here's what McConkie said about this (1958):
"It is also to the Book of Mormon to which we turn for the plainest description of the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church. Nephi saw this ‘church which is the most abominable above all other churches’ in vision. He ‘saw the devil that he was the foundation of it’ and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have been a part of this satanic organization."
cburton103 5 months ago
@pianoplayingmormon See my response to Troul if you're interested. Granted, this does not necessarily mean that today's LDS members interpret this as the Catholic Church. Has the interpretation changed?
God bless you.
cburton103 5 months ago
False mormon prophecies. Doctrine & Covenants 87:1-6, Dec. 25, 1832),Doctrine & Covenants 84:1-5; Sept. 1832,Doctrine & Covenants 114:1; April 17, 1838,Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 17-18
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
bible ...book of mormon...all similiar to fairy tales.
mr41ststreet 1 year ago
Never trust a mormon to give a Biblical referrence defending their religion. The words sound the same, but they have a completely different meaning.
GiftoAll 1 year ago
@GiftoAll So true. Every word in Mormonism has a different meaning. Jesus to God. Mercy to blood atonement. It is witchcraft in its linguistics.They are Greek Gnostic-Jewish Kabalahist's
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism In mormoneese, character and integrity means lying for the church and their god.
GiftoAll 1 year ago
@GiftoAll in Mormonism Lying develops godhood. Like at the characters Mountain Meadows Massacre. They lied sooo good they had to kill eveyone. Had to. At MMM Words like "decoy" and "atone" were used. The Result::. Mostly unarmed women and children murdered and 17 kidnapped. Today Mormons use words like "fear" to explain the actions of those Males Under the Endowment Oaths. If so I wonder what an angry aggressive male Mormon under the Endowment Oaths could accomplish? Heavens Gates?
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism I would hope that history wouldn't repeat. Wishfull thinking? If church leaders demanded a force, the oath keepers would lock and load. I've heard warning shots from some members about the country going into the crapper and what they were prepared to do. Hand me the gun ma, gonna protect our mormon food storage.
GiftoAll 1 year ago
Excellent information. Way to cut straight to the point of 100% reliance in the Bible.
MereMessenger 1 year ago
You mention you love Muslims and Catholics, but not Mormons. Funny.
DrPorterRockwell 1 year ago 6
Hey. Hey, guy. Hey. Uh. Uh, hey. Listen. Uh, hey. The Bible was translated from Hebrew to Latin and to Latin to English, and in these translations, the Bible was changed untold millions of times. Not just in language, but the Kings James scholars changed whole passages when they could not determine the meaning of the Latin Bible.
The Bible is the word of God, as is the Book of Mormon.
Uh, hey. Hey. Hey, uh. Fuck you.
IceLanced 1 year ago
lol this guys an r- tard
haidermann1 1 year ago 4
guy in the vid.
bradreed 1 year ago
brainwashed
bradreed 1 year ago
@bradreed Who is brainwashed?
JohnRhysMusician 1 year ago
@JohnRhysMusician
Just relax and let fundamentalist repair your church, they do an excellent job at fixing other people's churches.
Indutrial321 1 year ago
@Indutrial321 Why does my church need repair???
JohnRhysMusician 1 year ago
@JohnRhysMusician
Just joking man, your Mormon right? I'm cracking on the fundamentalist
Indutrial321 1 year ago
@Indutrial321 Yes I am Mormon. The church seems fine to me, its been exactly the same since 1820.
JohnRhysMusician 1 year ago
@JohnRhysMusician Fundamentalist get so mad at Mormons for being Mormons, but Its one of the few churches that actually treat people right, and give more humanitarian aid then the American government. I love Mormon juice and potato pearls.
Indutrial321 1 year ago
@Indutrial321 treats people right? Of course if u are hetero & mormon. Doesn't seem like the Mormon Church cares much about equal rights for gay people. The LDS Church hasn't done what Jesus said: "Whatever you wish men to do for you, do likewise also for them..." (Matt. 7:12 Lamsa)
CUTEb0y1 1 year ago
@JohnRhysMusician The Book of Mormon has been changed nearly 4,000 times. According to Jerald & Sandra Tanner, the exact number is 3,913. I have the Book they made where they compared the original 1830 edition with the current Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith didn't know how to write the KJV Old English very well & made many spelling mistakes as well.
CUTEb0y1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JohnRhysMusician
Just joking man, your Mormon right? I'm cracking on the fundamentalist
Indutrial321 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JohnRhysMusician
Just joking man, your Mormon right? I'm cracking on the fundamentalist
Indutrial321 1 year ago
All of the changes to the Book of Mormon have been to correct gramatical errors. There have not been any doctrinal or scriptural changes to the Book of Mormon itself.
JohnRhysMusician 2 years ago
of this world.
JohnRhysMusician 2 years ago
@JohnRhysMusician
I only believe in Science.
Indutrial321 1 year ago
@Indutrial321 Good for you. If that suits you so be it.
JohnRhysMusician 1 year ago
oh please can you think of something better to do with your time!!!
Ellie1503 2 years ago
In Genesis, a correct book by your standards, states clearly, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, in the image of God created he him; male AND female created he them." By the way, who is talking here. That Great I Am. Who is that? You better read more carefully.
kattelina 2 years ago
Interesting how he says that "the Bible never changes," but Martin Luther took seven books out of the Bible. Because of this, Protestant Bibles are missing parts of the Word of God. Is this not a "change?"
tdmavens 2 years ago 8
@tdmavens Wrong. The catholic cult put them in! Actually, they mearly defined what THEY would use as the Bible.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 A slight correction needs to be made to your statement. The Church merely defined what HAD BEEN USED as the Bible since the first centuries of the Church.
tdmavens 1 year ago
@tdmavens Wrong. The apocrypha was NEVER accepted by the jews or initially by Jerome because of the numerous errors and chronological errors. When you say "the church" you are referring to the CATHOLIC organisation, NOT the Christian church established by Christ. There IS a huge difference, my friend. Take care.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
i have personally been studying hebrew for a while. there are many references in the bible text to a plurality of gods. mainly the world elohim, if you study hebrew you will find out quickly pretty much everything that ends with im (eem) is plural masculine noun. Elohim, the gods, if you wish.
furthermore, adam and eve have become like unto us, knowing good from evil.
like unto us.
knowing good, from evil.
Nisuzx 2 years ago
you get the pristhood idiot and that theres prophets. and it has never changed just shut up jerk.
hotty1649 2 years ago
well...ur retarted...ok....us mormons read the bible ok....the book of mormon is just another testoment of "Jesus Christ"...if u would actually read the book of mormon tht u will find out tht it is also a journal of different followers of christ and their experiences.....i do not believe in all tht the book of mormon say....nor do i believe in all the bible says....
mormonchic93 2 years ago
BEWARE the Smith MYTH CULT!
ADAM came into the garden of Eden with a CELESTIAL BODY and one of his many wives, he is our Father and GOD. The Father, not the Holy Spirit, CONCEIVED Jesus with the Virgin Mary. Brigham Young JD V1 p50
In what way did ADAM CONCEIVE JESUS WITH THE VIRGIN MARY?
bdplist 2 years ago
This is the truth my friend: deuternomy 18:20 "But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name,which i have not commanded him to speak,or who speaks in the name of other gods,that prophet shall die." you already know what happened to joseph smith.
tksmurf 2 years ago
God the Father and His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, are glorified, exalted, resurrected, beings, and from the moment of the appearance of the Father and the Son to Joseph Smith, we have known their true nature."
- Offical LDS publication, Ensign, June 1998, Apostle Russell Ballard, "Building Bridges of Understanding
tksmurf 2 years ago
God himself, the father of us all dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ."
- The Prophet Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 342-345" End quote, mormans arent christians Game over
tksmurf 2 years ago
God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret... It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us. Here, then, is eternal life--to know that only wise and true God, and you have got to learn how to become Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you. ..
tksmurf 2 years ago
The Bible contradicts itself so therefore it has to have errors. For instance it says there are no Gods beside me in Isaiah 43 as you pointed out and yet in the book of Acts Steven sees Jesus on the right Hand of God. One God standing next to another God. Then at the baptism of Jesus we hear the voice of God the Father, see God the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove and Jesus is nearby being baptized by John the Baptist.
Advice4vice 2 years ago
Seeing their are contradictions in the bible, Wouldn't having scripture from a different part of the world be helpful in figuring out which biblical contradiction is correct. There are many translations of the bible yet it is without error. By the same standard there can be different editions of the Book of Mormon and it can still be without error. It is a translation and as modern language changes so can the words and grammer in the Book of Mormon.
Advice4vice 2 years ago
Your argument is illogical. Why would the bible contain a warning to those who would change the words of John the Revelator if it weren't possible to do so? The bible is not infallible because it has passed through so many human hands. If you are basing your faith on the infallibility of the bible, then you are doomed to being misled by someone else's false translation or jaded interpretation. The Holy Spirit is the only infallible source of truth who will teach you all truth.
musicmansuperman 2 years ago
Thank you for your video and boldness in expressing God's truth. Thank you again and God bless you.
dolldazed68 2 years ago
I feel like i'm watching a prayer channel, or infomercial. BLAH
blandinthebasement 2 years ago
so do you worship God, or the bible? God's word is inerrant.
You speak of changes in the book of mormon---WHAT ABOUT THE CHANGES IN THE BIBLE???????????? Seriously? Your own logic would lead you to believe that the bible isn't the word of God. Who translated the bible? It didn't just fall out of the sky, my friend.
blandinthebasement 2 years ago
I am a Christian like Paul:
Acts 24 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so WORSHIP I the God of my fathers, BELIEVING ALL things which are WRITTEN in the law and in the prophets: And have hope toward God
TESTIMONY of the BoM
"And now, if there are FAULTS they are the MISTAKES OF MEN; wherefore, CONDEMN NOT the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ."
Title page Book of Mormon
ROTFL
bdplist 2 years ago
Do LDS worship SATAN? or SATAN's Brother?
bdplist 2 years ago
ADAM was "Father of our spirits" Brigham Young Feb 19 1854
ADAM came into the garden of Eden WITH a CELESTIAL BODY" & "conceived Jesus with the Virgin Mary" Brigham Young Gen Conf Apr 1852 JD v1 p50
"ADAM is the father of our spirits" B Young Oct 8 1854 Gen Conf
"How much UNBELIEF exists in the minds of Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular DOCTRINE which I revealed to them, and which GOD REVEALED TO ME - namely that ADAM is our father and God" B Young Jun 18 1873
bdplist 3 years ago
You must know from reading the Bible that Satan is masquerading as "angel of light", if that is so, he is deceiving masses in "apparitions of Mary" that Catholics proclaim in Fatima,Lourdes,etc as well as so called angel Gabriel appearing to Mohammad in the cave and forming a Muslim religion, as well as angel called Mormoni appearing to Joseph Smith. Please whatever you do don't be deceived cry out to God for help and he will reveal himself to you, he did to me through His Word the Bible.
chantdownBABYL0N 3 years ago
LDS style REVELATION:
ADAM was "Father of our spirits" Brigham Young Feb 19 1854
ADAM came into the garden of Eden WITH a CELESTIAL BODY" & "CONCEIVED Jesus with the Virgin Mary" Brigham Young Gen Conf Apr 1852 JD v1 p50
"ADAM is the father of our spirits" B Young Oct 8 1854 Gen Conf
bdplist 3 years ago
The JD is an official pub of the LDS
It contains the sermons (some at Gen Conf) WORDS of the then LIVING 'prophets' in those words we can NOT have ANY CONFIDENCE lol
"In addition to these four books of scripture the INSPIRED WORDS of our living prophets BECOME SCRIPTURE to us Their words come to us through CONFERENCES, CHURCH PUBLICATTIONS and instructions to local priesthood leaders We believe all that God has revealed all that he does now reveal"
Articles of Faith 1982 ed 1:9
bdplist 3 years ago
Once again bdplist shows lack of understanding as to what constitutes official LDS doctrine and what doesn't. Being an "official pub of the LDS" does not make it official doctrine. To become official doctrine, the J of D would have to be presented at a general conference, and a vote of acceptance taken. That will never happen.
JediThePreacher 3 years ago
Who says? You? ROTFL
When do you speak at GENERAL CONFERENCE? Morning or afternoon session?
bdplist 3 years ago
Still waiting for a QUOTE from an official source that says this...........
Been waiting a long time now
bdplist 3 years ago
"I have learned by experience that there is but one God that pertains to this people, and He is the God that pertains to this earth the first man. That FIRST MAN SENT HIS OWN SON to redeem the world, to redeem his brethren; his life was taken, his blood shed, that our sins might be remitted." Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 4, p. 1
bdplist 3 years ago
"President Young followed & made many good remarks . . . He said that our God was Father Adam. He was the Father of the Savior Jesus Christ--Our God was no more or less than Adam . . . Michael the Archangel." Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, February 19, 1854
bdplist 3 years ago
ADAM was "Father of our spirits" Brigham Young Feb 19 1854
ADAM came into the garden of Eden WITH a CELESTIAL BODY" & "conceived Jesus with the Virgin Mary" Brigham Young Gen Conf Apr 1852 JD v1 p50
"ADAM is the father of our spirits" B Young Oct 8 1854 Gen Conf
"How much UNBELIEF exists in the minds of Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular DOCTRINE which I revealed to them, and which GOD REVEALED TO ME - namely that ADAM is our father and God" B Young Jun 18 1873
bdplist 3 years ago
So we see that LDS claims about needing a prophet are just a big joke
Just a good sounding false claim meant to deceive people into joining the CULT
LDS false claims say 'prophets' are given so "we may have CONFIDENT ASSURANCE without CHANCE for DOUBT or QUIBBLING"
("When are Church Leader's Words entitled to Claim of Scripture?" Church News Jul 31 1954 p10)
LDS themselves tell us NO ONE can have ANY CONFIDENCE in what LDS prophets say!!!
bdplist 3 years ago
i am totally with you on this. i added your video to my space blog. god bless you :)
justice4abi 3 years ago
you miss understanding brother.LDS doctrine concerning we will become god in life to come is mean we will resplace God, but mean we will like GOD perfect and exaltion .this so deep meaning if you never ENTER into the Holy Temple you will never undestand this doctrine cause the person who willing to do the what the Lord require thats only the thing will be reveal please dont judge others churches or teaching if you won't be judge let them believe what they want to beleive
agendaflower 3 years ago
The adam god DOCTRINE was received by REVELATION
How much UNBELIEF exists in the minds of Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular DOCTRINE which I REVEALED to them, and which God REVEALED to me - namely that Adam is our father and God' Brigham Young
bdplist 3 years ago
1. Adam (Eve's husband)is not God the Father. How hard is it not to see that? No LDS believes that the created man Adam is God the Father. Yet, anti-LDS persist in claiming that LDS do believe it. bdplist, you are "correcting" no one, lol. You are trying to make us believe something that we've never believed, and never will believe. Claiming a work to be official doctrine when it isn't (JofD), does not make it so. Show me ONE quote that states the JofD IS accepted official doctrine. You can't.
JediThePreacher 3 years ago
I did not say it was official it was LDS.
Are you saying LDS sources are not reliable and must be checked out with a General authority to see if they can be trusted?
SO...
A quote from who or what?
Would a quote from a LDS 'prophet' suffice?
How abot an LDS "apostle"?
We are not talking about what you believe we are talking about what past generations of LDS believed AND WHO THEY WORSHIPPED!
bdplist 3 years ago
ARE YOU SAYING WE CAN NOT TRUST THIS LDS APOSTLE????
APOSTLE George Q Cannon JD PREFACE V8
"The Journal of Discourses ranks as one of the STANDARD WORKS of the Church and every rightminded Saint will CERTAINly welcome with joy every Number as it comes forth from the press"
bdplist 3 years ago
bdplist...you make the same mistakes that most anti-Mormons and others who disagree with LDS beliefs and doctrine make: you assume that just because an LDS general authority (prophet, apostle, etc) said it, that makes it official doctrine. Adam (Eve's hubby) being God the Father was not, is not now, and never will be doctrine, because it's just NOT TRUE. Your "quote" from BY needs a source, m'man. I have thousands of LDS works on my computer, and could not find that quote anywhere.
PreachitJedi 3 years ago
"The adam god doctrine was received by revelation"? BY knew perfectly well that Adam, Eve's mate, was not God the Father. All LDS know it as well, too. Adam walked and talked with God in the garden if Eden. I'm always amused when some non-LDS tries to dictate what LDS "really" believe, or what we "should" be believing. Most of them, like you, may have read about what LDS believe, but your trouble is that you don't UNDERSTAND it.
PreachitJedi 3 years ago
Nice try, bdplist, but the JoD is not official doctrine of the church. We read from it, quote from it, but that does not make it doctrine. Do some research on the origins of the JoD and you'll understand WHY, as a body of work, it never has been, is not now, and never will be official doctrine of the church. Oh, and do yourself a favor: don't pretend to dictate to LDS what constitutes official LDS doctrine and what doesn't. Thank you.
PreacherMormon 3 years ago
If you LDS were not so IGNORANT of your own religion I would not have to spend so much time correcting you.
When do you speak at GENERAL CONFERENCE?
Are you one of the "prophets" counselors?
What authority do you have?
DON'T PRETEND!
I prefer authoratative sources
APOSTLE George Q Cannon JD PREFACE V8 "The Journal of Discourses ranks as one of the STANDARD WORKS of the Church and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every Number as it comes forth from the press"
bdplist 3 years ago
"STANDARD WORKS" does not automatically translate to "official doctrine", bdplist. And you have yet to provide a quote stating such. Also, I guess I'm wondering why you are trying to force me to beleive something that is not official LDS doctrine, that I don't beleive to begin with, and that YOU certainly don't believe (i.e. Adam is God the Father). I've never denied that LDS do read from the JofD, but we also read from other non-doctrinal works also. Nothing wrong with that, that I can see.
PreachitJedi 3 years ago
Your absolutely correct their is no way to really understand what the mormon 'prophet' meant unless we have a 2nd LDS 'prophet' to interpret!
No one can understand LDS doctrine unless they are a member & have a LDS 'prophet to interpret for him lol
bdplist 3 years ago
STILL waiting for a quote that says the Journal of Discourses is official LDS doctrine. (Been waiting for a LONG time now.)
JediThePreacher 3 years ago
The Journal Of Discourses is listed as an official publication of the LDS Church
"In addition to these four books of scripture, the INSPIRED WORDS of our living prophets become scripture to us. Their words come to us through conferences, CHURCH PUBLICATTIONS, and instructions to local priesthood leaders. We believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal Articles of Faith, 1982 ed, 1:9.
bdplist 3 years ago
ADAM is God:
Who was the Savior begotten by?....Who did beget him? His Father, and his father is our God, and the Father of our spirits, and he is the framer of the body, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Who is he? He is Father ADAM; Michael; the Ancient of Days. Brigham Young, Feb. 19, 1854
Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father ADAM. There are many who know that DOCTRINE to be true. Young Oct 7 1857
bdplist 3 years ago
Dude,,,How gay are you? Clay Aiken is straighter than you.
coffeefish 3 years ago
1852
Adam came into the garden of Eden with a celestial body and one of his many wives, he is our Father and God. The Father, not the Holy Spirit, conceived Jesus with the Virgin Mary. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, p. 50.)
1873 The DOCTRINE was received by REVELATION
How much unbelief exists in the minds of Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me - namely that Adam is our father and God' Brigham Young
bdplist 3 years ago
I definetly agree with what he has to say.
Mandle994 3 years ago
Go ahead MORMONS prove you are Gods!!!!
God says Tell us the FUTURE!
IS 41 That they may see, and know, and consider and understand...Produce your cause...bring forth your strong reasons...SHEW US what shall happen let them shew the former things what they be that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them or DECLARE us THINGS for TO COME Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may KNOW THAT YE ARE gods...
Behold ye are of NOTHING and your work of nought
OAMission 3 years ago
Never said we were Gods. It's hard to argue when you don't use logic.
cuteddu07 3 years ago
That is right LDS are "gods in embryo" LOL
More like SINners in full bloom!
God says Ye are of NOTHING IS 41
OAMission 3 years ago
Nice try with the just a friendly chat approach. Fell short, however. I have evidence from a more sure source than anything any person can come up with to the contrary. It's called a witness from the Holy Ghost...the highest evidence there is.
TruthIsNeeded 3 years ago
I have a witness of the Holy Ghost too!
I bear you witness that Joe was a FALSE PROPHET
Brigham worshipped ADAM
The LDS church is NOT the one true church
The Mormon standard works have been cooked
PRAISE THE LORD for the HIGHEST evidence there is!
OAMission 3 years ago
OAMission...you'll have to come up with something more original than that. You may have a "witness" behind the statements you just made, but it didn't come from the Holy Ghost. Nice try, though.
BadPennyBack 3 years ago
Well sorry that you dont like it but it is a easily determined FACT that
Brigham worshipped ADAM
OAMission 3 years ago
If it's so easily determined, then how about some PROOF?
EternalMarriage 3 years ago
An easily determined fact that Brigham worshiped Adam? Alright, give me ONE quote from BY from ANY doctrinal LDS source that he did.
PreacherMormon 3 years ago
He said it in General Conference
He tatught if from 1852 until the end of his life
It was taught & beleived by the next TWO presidents
It is found thruout the Journal of Discourses which were produced under direction and authorized by the 1st presidency
JoD is listed as an official publication of the LDS Church
Inspired words of prophets "Their words come to us through conferences, Church publications" Articles of Faith
bdplist 3 years ago
Hey you Mormons prove to us you are gods, tell us the future
God says you are NOTHING
OAMission 3 years ago
Why did Brigham teach & preach ADAM was God?
OAMission 3 years ago
Why did Brigahm teach & preach ADAM was God?
OAMission 3 years ago
Your a brainwashed moron secondtimothy....
You have no authority but that you assume unto yourself to know what is actually "true" concerning God and the Plan of Salvation. You follow the doctrines of men, not God. God didn't even put your little "idol" Bible book together, men did. They said what would go in it and stay out of it over and over. Get a clue. If you think mormons have no validity, you have even less.
leeuniverse 3 years ago
Prove to me that the Bible is perfect. Good luck!
cuteddu07 3 years ago
prove to me that you think Good luck!
OAMission 3 years ago
Excellent argument. Well thought out. Very articulate. So, I suppose you cannot indeed prove the Bible is perfect? I can prove that it is not.
cuteddu07 3 years ago
Psalms 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
OAMission 3 years ago
That scripture says nothing on the Bible. Nice try. Look into the "changes" there buddy.
cuteddu07 3 years ago
O you are a babel scholer?
What do you mean is says nothing "on the Bible"?
OAMission 3 years ago
It isn't talking about the Bible in Psalms. The Bible didn't exist back then. I never said that I didn't believe in God. What I am saying is your argument lacks merit. Please waste your time elsewhere.
cuteddu07 3 years ago
What is it talking about? You have declared yourself the scholar here. So TEACH!
OAMission 3 years ago
Fascinating. When did I say I was a Bible scholar? I am pretty sure the only thing I have maintained is that YOU ARE NOT a scholar of any sort.
However, the scripture is pretty clear: A person is a fool if he does not believe in God. You can see that from their works.
Incoherent babbling is not becoming of one that "proclaims" and "witnesses" the word of God.
cuteddu07 3 years ago
So stop babbling and say what you are trying to say. Go ahead spit it out you can do it
OAMission 3 years ago
in the bible he is telling you to put no "god" (such as the ancient egyptians) before him and/or do not worship another God, and when he says BESIDES him, he is saying he is the only God of this world.
Bakeness 3 years ago
Most of the the 4,000 changes in the Book of Mormon were things like the addition of chapters, verses, etc. The original Book of Mormon didn't have them, of course. As for the Bible never changing, which version of the Bible are you referring to? Are all the Bible versions 100% correct? They can't possibly be. Therefore, which one is the "most correct"?
JediMormon 3 years ago
Tell the truth jedi
Since the BoM has very little doctrine in it there was little need to change it when LDS beliefs went thru major changes.
However major changes occur in other LDS documents such as the D&C & the historical documents such as the History of the Church
1 Ne 13:40 the lamb of God is the Eternal Father is the son of the Eternal Father
1Nephi 11:21 the Eternal Father son of the Eternal Father
1 Nep 11:32 the Everlasting God son of the Everlasting God
OAMission 3 years ago
OA...little need to change it? I'm sure that if you tell the general authorities of the church that, they will realize their mistake. :oP I'm not worried about changes to "historical" documents, because my testimony is not based on past church history, only on church doctrine and a witness from God of the truth. Joseph Smith said that the book of mormon was the most correct block of any on earth. He never claimed that it was perfect.
JediiMormon 3 years ago
correction: block=book in my last post. (I'm using a voice recognition program)
JediiMormon 3 years ago
OAM..."tell the truth jedi"? (this is JediMormon, by the way. James doesn't like me pointing out his dishonest statements and so keeps blocking my usernames). I always tell the truth to the best of my ability. I have no reason to lie about my beliefs. You mention "major changes" then cite 3 from the Book of Mormon. You state that "LDS beliefs went thru major changes", but cite no changes. Name ONE major doctrinal change that has occured besides the 1978 revelation allowing the priesthood to all.
PreacherMormon 3 years ago
In the 1830's the Mormon church taught only ONE God not three!!!
Moses 1:6 there is NO God beside me
bdplist 3 years ago
What does it mean that Jesus prayed to God? Was Jesus God? Was the Father God? Who came before? Please explain!
responder2u 3 years ago
In all my years of dealing with those who believe in a trinity, NO ONE has ever been able to explain that concept to me so that it makes sense.
JediMormon 3 years ago
In all my years of dealing with those who believe in a trinity, NO ONE has ever been able to explain that concept to me so that it makes sense.
Not even the BoM?
Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is ONE Eternal God... Alma 11:44
Father,Son, Holy Spirit that is THREE persons which is ONE eternal God
Here are 3 more "being ONE God"
And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God Mos 15:1, 2, 5
OAMission 3 years ago
The Book of Mormon explains the Godhead,which concept is ONE God comprised of three separate and distinct personages, as per the BoM verses you just presented. God the Father is an individual, as are Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. LDS doctrine states that God the Father and Jesus have glorified bodies of flesh and bone. The HG is a personage of spirit.
PreacherMormon 3 years ago
Jesus is the son of God, he is not God. God is our Heavenly Father, Jesus is our heavenly brother.
Bakeness 3 years ago
Have you read the Book of Mormon?
What's your interpretation of Romans 8:17?
Hove you actually documented the "4000 changes" yourself, or do you rely on others such as the Tanners, to tell you what is "true"?
Which version of the Bible is inerrant?
Is the apocrypha inerrant?
If so, why isn't it in all Bibles?
If not, are the Catholics using a false Bible?
What is your opinion of the book "Misquoting Jesus"?
If you're unfamiliar with Dr. Ehrman's work you can watch his lecture here on youtube.
urloony 3 years ago
the holy bible never changes as long as it is translated correctly... many people see the same words and figure different things out of it that is why there are so many diff. religions. The bible is true, if u understand what it is saying. We will not become Gods like Heavenly Father... he will always and forever be our father our God... Godhood is being like him, but not him, Jesus became like his father in heaven and is as a God in Godhood however he did not replace God himself.
ramonswife 3 years ago