@FTWization Not really, both Hitchens and Dawkins just declare "I don't want one." That isn't a counter it is a selfish response without even answering the question.
Would you please cite that quote you just made up? You obviously don't understand what they said. The Bible can be offensive; maybe you're unaware or you have decided the offensive parts don't apply anymore. Either way, cherry picking the moral lessons from the immoral ones is wrong and doesn't represent absolute truth. Would you kill your child if you thought God told you to? How do you feel about incest? Slavery? Rape? Just because you don't understand morality doesn't mean it came from a god.
@FTWization Watch this video up to :27. He says it right there as for Dawkins:/watch?v=dxdgCxK4VUA 0:53 into the program or thereabout.
"Cite a quote I just made up" That's a contradiction. If I made it up, how exactly could I cite to it?
And I don't cherry pick. I accept all of it. Rape is assumed, incest isn't lawful, forced slavery isn't either, and I go by what God tells me in the Holy Bible not some hypothetical. My depression is gone, all in the name of Christ.
@timcp1 It's not a contradiction. You cited 10 secs into a 2 min response and stopping there only makes your interpretation "made up." You should note that "I don't want one" is not a rejection of morality as you imply but a rejection of old static religious laws that conflict with modern dynamic secular views. Christianity has had to give ground on this and if it didn't it would be no different than the Middle East with Sharia law. Don't tell me Islam is different. Theocracy is all the same.
@FTWization No, I'm not saying it is a rejection of morality. I'm saying it isn't an answer for how one would justify placing their morality over others as superior when they aren't even an absolute authority. Saying "I don't want one" and "I don't think it is beneficial." Is not an answer, that is just more op-ed opinion. How has Christianity had to give ground exactly?
@timcp1 Why don't you email them and tell them they failed to answer the question? There is no proof of an absolute authority and the sense of morality that comes from man-made religious texts is barbaric and out-dated. Can you even give a reason why your absolute authority is better than any other? This is all the justification needed to answer another rendition of the "where do you get your morals from?" argument. Society... not God. We are safer from theocracy and war this way too.
@FTWization I would do that if I knew who to e-mail. There are plenty of reasons the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is better than another. Don't murder, bear false witness, covet, steal, respecting your parents, these are all morals found within the 10 commandments. Then when you read the New covenant referred to as the New Testament you find abstaining from fornication, eating blood and things strangled are what we are to follow. Heck, the OT has comparative negligence of all things.
@timcp1 You know who you want to email and it takes three seconds to find their contact information. Are you sure there are plenty of reasons the God of Abraham through Isaac is better than another? Sure, some of the laws are good but does that really narrow it down further than just Judaism, Christianity and Islam? Some of the laws are no longer followed and some are even offense. It's all about blood sacrifice and casting your sin on a scapegoat. Very superstitious and barbaric.
@FTWization Their contact information? I don't even know who allowed Hitchens to give this speech. I believe that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the truth, I do believe it narrows it down to one way, Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism it is the same thing, you take two Hebrews, 1 believes in the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, the 2nd does too but believes Jesus is Messiah. The 1st' Hebrew calls the 2nd a Christian. There aren't blood sacrifices anymore, Jesus fulfilled the law.
@timcp1 anyone SHOULDN'T be able to justify telling others what it moral. We should come together an agree on what should be considered moral and immoral.
@bwc3821 Others don't agree on what is moral. That is the point, there is just too many variations in this world. China, the USA, Russia, they won't agree with each other. Pakistan and India won't agree, nor will India agree with China. All these nations have different morals. Then in the USA, you have societies like a 1%er bike club, the 1% that doesn't keep the law like the Hells Angels, how would you expect them to all agree on what is right or wrong let alone entire nations?
@timcp1 You'll never get 100% consensus, and you don't need to. We work together and compromise until we come to something most of us can accept. That's how you justify it.
Hell, that's how we have our "Christian Morals" of today. We stopped giving credence to some of the "morals" laid out in the bible, and stuck with the ones that most people liked, like being against murder or rape. Most "morals" nowadays aren't so because God said so, it's because the people agreed to follow them.
@bwc3821 So then the majority rules? Where then is the justification over the minority? If you say it is something "most" of us can handle, what about those who disagree? If compromise were possible you would see demilitarization throughout the world, but you don't have that. Just since the cold war you have escalated militarization to a technical level that would rival the imagination of Hollywood. How would you defuse India v. Pakistan?
the problem with this man is he is so focused on the limitations of the human mind to perceive an infinite creator and so ignorant as to make a fact as saying he doesnt llike an infinite creator. talks about reasearching biology but doesnt even realize his own fuckin DNA is coded so specifically that it would be impossible to have no creator behing itt.
@MrAe500 You fail at logic. DNA is a product of evolution. There is no need for a consciousness to explain it... and, of course, you would have to explain who designed the designer!
@MrAe500 Oh, yeah? Where did God come from if someone didn't design him? And if nobody designed him, then where DID he come from? You can't just say "Oh, he was always around". If a complex being can come into existence without another complex being designing it, then that's as true for man as for God. And since there is no evidence for the existence of your god Jehovah, it's best just to assume it's a fictional character. Why worship Paul Bunyan or Cujo, either?
@MrAe500 We have never once observed anything being designed that wasn't designed by a natural process. When a human designs a new kind of car, it is the electrochemical process of the brain that "designs" the car. In other words, the natural consequences of biochemistry are responsible for the products of human "design". So, I think a "designer", in the sense that theists use the word, doesn't really exist. We've never seen that kind of design.
@MrAe500 Actually, little buddy, Mr. Hitchens aims to free the human mind. The deplorable fact that the best your itsy-bitsy mind could provide, by way of response is Mr. Hitchens doesn't "like" an infinite creator, speaks volumes about you, but not a shred about him. Your use of profanity only serves to display infantile anger at your lack of understanding. Don't lash out chum. Try harder. 8)
@MrAe500 Really? That's it? "yeahhh....alright CHUMMM"? Don't be scared little buddy. Speak freely. If you, (someone without a college education) thinks he has a better grasp of what is possible and what is not then our Mr. Hitchens, by all means let's hear it. Quotes from a bronze age book however will not be sufficient.
@theDuctapeUnion The problem with ignorant people (like MrAe500) is they willingly make absurd claims that require no evidence, they are grossly over-confident of the completeness of what little they know and finally, they seem to think that if they don’t know something then it is of no importance. The example of evolution is perfect; they don’t need to study it or understand it. For them it’s enough that it requires an effort and, worse, they might actually learn something; so it’s just wrong.
Hmmm ... monarchy is totalitarian. Interesting. Yet British society honors it, and vast numbers of so-called democrats are enthralled by it. And jerks of privilege like Prince Charles that are part of it, thrive on it in obscene bestowed luxury.
Without an absolute authority how can anyone justify telling other people how to be moral or immoral?
timcp1 5 months ago
@timcp1 the morality argument has been made and countered time and time again. look it up
FTWization 4 months ago
@FTWization Not really, both Hitchens and Dawkins just declare "I don't want one." That isn't a counter it is a selfish response without even answering the question.
timcp1 4 months ago
Would you please cite that quote you just made up? You obviously don't understand what they said. The Bible can be offensive; maybe you're unaware or you have decided the offensive parts don't apply anymore. Either way, cherry picking the moral lessons from the immoral ones is wrong and doesn't represent absolute truth. Would you kill your child if you thought God told you to? How do you feel about incest? Slavery? Rape? Just because you don't understand morality doesn't mean it came from a god.
FTWization 4 months ago
@FTWization Watch this video up to :27. He says it right there as for Dawkins:/watch?v=dxdgCxK4VUA 0:53 into the program or thereabout.
"Cite a quote I just made up" That's a contradiction. If I made it up, how exactly could I cite to it?
And I don't cherry pick. I accept all of it. Rape is assumed, incest isn't lawful, forced slavery isn't either, and I go by what God tells me in the Holy Bible not some hypothetical. My depression is gone, all in the name of Christ.
timcp1 4 months ago
@timcp1 It's not a contradiction. You cited 10 secs into a 2 min response and stopping there only makes your interpretation "made up." You should note that "I don't want one" is not a rejection of morality as you imply but a rejection of old static religious laws that conflict with modern dynamic secular views. Christianity has had to give ground on this and if it didn't it would be no different than the Middle East with Sharia law. Don't tell me Islam is different. Theocracy is all the same.
FTWization 4 months ago
@FTWization No, I'm not saying it is a rejection of morality. I'm saying it isn't an answer for how one would justify placing their morality over others as superior when they aren't even an absolute authority. Saying "I don't want one" and "I don't think it is beneficial." Is not an answer, that is just more op-ed opinion. How has Christianity had to give ground exactly?
timcp1 4 months ago
@timcp1 Why don't you email them and tell them they failed to answer the question? There is no proof of an absolute authority and the sense of morality that comes from man-made religious texts is barbaric and out-dated. Can you even give a reason why your absolute authority is better than any other? This is all the justification needed to answer another rendition of the "where do you get your morals from?" argument. Society... not God. We are safer from theocracy and war this way too.
FTWization 4 months ago
Comment removed
timcp1 3 months ago
@FTWization I would do that if I knew who to e-mail. There are plenty of reasons the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is better than another. Don't murder, bear false witness, covet, steal, respecting your parents, these are all morals found within the 10 commandments. Then when you read the New covenant referred to as the New Testament you find abstaining from fornication, eating blood and things strangled are what we are to follow. Heck, the OT has comparative negligence of all things.
timcp1 3 months ago
@timcp1 You know who you want to email and it takes three seconds to find their contact information. Are you sure there are plenty of reasons the God of Abraham through Isaac is better than another? Sure, some of the laws are good but does that really narrow it down further than just Judaism, Christianity and Islam? Some of the laws are no longer followed and some are even offense. It's all about blood sacrifice and casting your sin on a scapegoat. Very superstitious and barbaric.
FTWization 3 months ago
@FTWization Their contact information? I don't even know who allowed Hitchens to give this speech. I believe that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the truth, I do believe it narrows it down to one way, Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism it is the same thing, you take two Hebrews, 1 believes in the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, the 2nd does too but believes Jesus is Messiah. The 1st' Hebrew calls the 2nd a Christian. There aren't blood sacrifices anymore, Jesus fulfilled the law.
timcp1 3 months ago
@timcp1 *better than another
FTWization 4 months ago
@timcp1 anyone SHOULDN'T be able to justify telling others what it moral. We should come together an agree on what should be considered moral and immoral.
bwc3821 3 months ago
@bwc3821 Others don't agree on what is moral. That is the point, there is just too many variations in this world. China, the USA, Russia, they won't agree with each other. Pakistan and India won't agree, nor will India agree with China. All these nations have different morals. Then in the USA, you have societies like a 1%er bike club, the 1% that doesn't keep the law like the Hells Angels, how would you expect them to all agree on what is right or wrong let alone entire nations?
timcp1 3 months ago
@timcp1 You'll never get 100% consensus, and you don't need to. We work together and compromise until we come to something most of us can accept. That's how you justify it.
Hell, that's how we have our "Christian Morals" of today. We stopped giving credence to some of the "morals" laid out in the bible, and stuck with the ones that most people liked, like being against murder or rape. Most "morals" nowadays aren't so because God said so, it's because the people agreed to follow them.
bwc3821 3 months ago
@bwc3821 So then the majority rules? Where then is the justification over the minority? If you say it is something "most" of us can handle, what about those who disagree? If compromise were possible you would see demilitarization throughout the world, but you don't have that. Just since the cold war you have escalated militarization to a technical level that would rival the imagination of Hollywood. How would you defuse India v. Pakistan?
timcp1 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@timcp1 Do you want to go back an read your own comment that started all of this?
bwc3821 3 months ago
Hitch you make me proud to be a thinking human being.
peppedamp 1 year ago 13
the problem with this man is he is so focused on the limitations of the human mind to perceive an infinite creator and so ignorant as to make a fact as saying he doesnt llike an infinite creator. talks about reasearching biology but doesnt even realize his own fuckin DNA is coded so specifically that it would be impossible to have no creator behing itt.
MrAe500 1 year ago
@MrAe500 You fail at logic. DNA is a product of evolution. There is no need for a consciousness to explain it... and, of course, you would have to explain who designed the designer!
johnclavis 1 year ago
@johnclavis designed a designer....you fail at making sense... the designer designs he doesnt become designed
MrAe500 1 year ago
@MrAe500 Oh, yeah? Where did God come from if someone didn't design him? And if nobody designed him, then where DID he come from? You can't just say "Oh, he was always around". If a complex being can come into existence without another complex being designing it, then that's as true for man as for God. And since there is no evidence for the existence of your god Jehovah, it's best just to assume it's a fictional character. Why worship Paul Bunyan or Cujo, either?
johnclavis 1 year ago
@MrAe500 We have never once observed anything being designed that wasn't designed by a natural process. When a human designs a new kind of car, it is the electrochemical process of the brain that "designs" the car. In other words, the natural consequences of biochemistry are responsible for the products of human "design". So, I think a "designer", in the sense that theists use the word, doesn't really exist. We've never seen that kind of design.
Vincentaneous 1 year ago
@MrAe500 says who?
ElectricQualia 9 months ago
@MrAe500 Actually, little buddy, Mr. Hitchens aims to free the human mind. The deplorable fact that the best your itsy-bitsy mind could provide, by way of response is Mr. Hitchens doesn't "like" an infinite creator, speaks volumes about you, but not a shred about him. Your use of profanity only serves to display infantile anger at your lack of understanding. Don't lash out chum. Try harder. 8)
theDuctapeUnion 1 year ago
@theDuctapeUnion yeahhh....alrightt CHUMMM
MrAe500 1 year ago
@MrAe500 Really? That's it? "yeahhh....alright CHUMMM"? Don't be scared little buddy. Speak freely. If you, (someone without a college education) thinks he has a better grasp of what is possible and what is not then our Mr. Hitchens, by all means let's hear it. Quotes from a bronze age book however will not be sufficient.
theDuctapeUnion 1 year ago
@theDuctapeUnion The problem with ignorant people (like MrAe500) is they willingly make absurd claims that require no evidence, they are grossly over-confident of the completeness of what little they know and finally, they seem to think that if they don’t know something then it is of no importance. The example of evolution is perfect; they don’t need to study it or understand it. For them it’s enough that it requires an effort and, worse, they might actually learn something; so it’s just wrong.
ritchloui 9 months ago 6
Hmmm ... monarchy is totalitarian. Interesting. Yet British society honors it, and vast numbers of so-called democrats are enthralled by it. And jerks of privilege like Prince Charles that are part of it, thrive on it in obscene bestowed luxury.
townsendjean 1 year ago
@townsendjean Of course Hitchens is a U.S. citizen now. This could be one of the reasons.
SockbatReplica 1 year ago
looking good bald.
dylanotto 1 year ago
@dylanotto
rhill54 1 year ago
@dylanotto It's a result of chemotherapy. )-:
rhill54 1 year ago