Read it for yourself. Reference to steel swords in the book of mormon. "the sword of Laban cuts off the head of mormon apologetic argument. Supposedly found with the golden book in a large stone box. Later spotted hanging on a wall in a cave inside a cave with a wagon load of golden books. Later found unsheathed with english words inscribed on it.
Why does the Mormon church do any research at all? Don't they just tell people to pray to Heavenly Father and he will tell them that the BOM is true? What's happening now, they don't believe the answer they're getting from Heavenly Father? Are they actually going to try to proooove the BOM now? No! That would mean they would actually have to engage, answer direct questions and yes even admit, possibly, that they are incorrect, that the BOM is NOT true and that Joseph Smith was a fraud.
Evidence ? The sword of Laban is described in the BofM as made from fine steel and precious metals. The mormon apology has the BofM characters using the mesoamerican wooden broad sword. "the wood nickel". The apology for the missing swords is laughable. Reading the book of mormon, there is no parallels to real world geography or culture. It doesn't fit anywhere.
@kramd1 The BackYardProffessor has videos claiming that such swords:: wood and rocks, qualify for a metal sword. These guys have no shame. None. They will say or do anything, often times believing it themselves, to preserve the lie of Mormonism
@IExposeMormonism Such blatant lies. Mormons are the first to accuse, any or all that questions the book of mormon, of being anti-mormon and quickly resort to name calling.
It's like your bursting balloons at a children christmas party & telling the children Santa is not real.
Like: Steel swords are a wooden club ? a 3 foot high four legged Tapir is a horse ?
a mayan ziggurat is a temple of Solomon ? american indians are jews ? mormon Jesus is Quetzalcoatl ?
@kramd1 And Cumorah is in South America, Mormonism is the Eternal Presence of an Absence, it leaves us wanting for evidence. When we have evidence, like with the absurd Book of Abraham, written in Real Egyptian, they deny the evidence is there and insist there are missing portions. Something is always missing in Mormon claims. Truth and evidence. A little research would clear the cluttered brain.
@TheSkepticChristian We know where the bible comes from But of the B of M it involves angels and a host of heavenly visitors ( even John the Baptist complete with his head on ) appearing to Joseph Smith. Who wrote ( plagiarised ) a tale of a people that have nothing in common with any former inhabitants of the americas ( certainly not Mayans ) the lack of evidence is a mormon hallmark. They are good at total horse poo. ( Tapir droppings )
@TheSkepticChristian "I find more evidences that support the BofM, than the Bible." I would suggest you Study some real biblical archeology anthropology and linguistics and wake up
This video circumvents the lack of metallurgic evidence in Mezo & South America. I don't care about iron in the middle east - show me evidence for steel in the new world and I might consider changing my opinion.
@madmonk well that arguement doesn't hold water. That's like saying SHOW ME THE ARC OF THE COVENANT the Jews and Moses brought with them....
You need to read the book of Mormon cover to cover for yourself, and prayerfully ponder its words before making such judgements, because your opinion is not yet educated based on what you said.
@LDS4Life71 Quite the contrary; my argument holds plenty of water. The metallurgy described in the BOM would have left major evidences in the new world, and it's simply not there. There is plenty of pre-columbian metallurgy in the middle east, but that doesn't mean it belonged to Nephi's group. That same evidence needs to exist in Meso America, not the middle east. Then we'll have something to discuss. And yes, I read the BOM many, many times cover to cover, prayerfully. Not convinced.
@madmonk The metallurgy died off with them. The early blacksmiths were killed off in the fighting with the wicked people that fought them. The text does mention that. Archaeology hasn't cracked even 3% of the pyramids that make up Mirador.
Cortez however noted that he saw every type of weapons. Wooden and metal.
because the flint embedded wood handled weapons were more effective, the people changed their tactics.
@LDS4Life71 OK, but archaeologists agree that metallurgy wasn't developed until around 600 AD at the earliest. This is one of the many, MANY peices of evidence showing that the Book of Mormon is false. In other words, there were no early blacksmiths to be killed off in the first place. And as to the flint... Not even used during BOM times.
@madmonk You have no evidence to support it. There were early smiths, and they did do primitive metal working. They were killed off in battle against the Lamanites.
@LDS4Life71 First you need to prove that the Lamanites even existed. If there were early smiths then there must be mines, so unless there has been a recent discovery in the last year, I'm not aware of any mining evidence. Joseph Smith's book indicates metallurgy throughout. Brass, copper, fine metals, even coinage is mentioned in the book of Alma. How can this be when metal working didn't even start until after Moroni died? Easy; he never existed.
@LDS4Life71 Copper from what time period? Remember that the church even supports the idea of metallurgy all throughout BOM times. Just look at earlier versions of the BOM where artwork shows armies with metal swords and armor. Those versions of the BOM bare the church logo, and are considered scripture.
@madmonk Also the word Steel wasn't the true steel we use today, but a weaker alloy similar to carbon heated iron or bronze, but again when you deal with a translation done by one who is uneducated, the word steels true meaning may have been blurred.
I read the BoM cover to cover and I am convinced.
@LDS4Life71 Is there evidence for the word steel not being the steel we use today? How about the other metals? And didn't the translation supposedly come from god? How then could it be flawed?
@madmonk The translation came from God, but the source is one with a small vocabulary. Imagine seeing animals that are not anywhere seen before but you have to come up with a name for them based on your 3rd grade education. Joseph Smith was uneducated, but it fulfills the prophecies of Isaiah. That an uneducated person would translate the book and not one with an degree.
@LDS4Life71 Joseph could read very well and had quite an extensive vocabulary. I've read letters written by him, and was shocked at how eloquently he actually wrote (contrary to what the church teaches about his literacy). Funny that you should bring up Isaiah - the JST of Isaiah inserted references of Joseph which don't match the Dead Sea Scroll's translation.
@LDS4Life71 I've been to FAIR's website and I'm not impressed with the way they handled the Abraham issue, nor was I convinced by their explanations of the Kinderhook plates or any other issue for that matter. I scoured their site for years hoping for a reconciliation, but only found more confusion.
@madmonk LOL Kinderhook plates were a scam. Book of Abraham is alittle more tricky, but there is NO explantion away for the book of Moses. It is just as viable as the book of Abraham.
@madmonk It was the power of God that allowed such a translation to commence, and Joseph Smith with his great faith in God was given the commission to do the work.
@LDS4Life71 You have got to be kidding me. Steel is an alloy of iron and carbon. Period. Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin/antimony/aluminum/lead. What exactly is 'carbon heated iron'? Is that just a charcoal forge in which wrought iron is worked? And where are these iron swords? Museums have iron swords more than 2,000 years old from Europe.
@Froddofromtheshire It's NOT pure steel, but it's an allow that CAN and WAS USED BY Nephi. the ore is there. The book of Mormon lands were in meso america. YOU can go excavate jungle if you want to. good luck. BTW all BoM metallurgy was only in the begginning of the text, and the technology was lost because of the fighting killed off the ones with the knowledge to be called "smiths."
@LDS4Life71 And I assume they are in Cumorah in South America? Because now you and others claim it there. And that despite all those Mormon names in the Eastern USA! And were so named Before the BofM was dug up in NY, in a drumlin, left there, according you New Age Mormonism, when Moroni walked thousands of miles with a book weighing at least 45 lbs if copper and gold. And Ol' Moroni left not a word of this travel, he just slammed it into a fancy box and left it there
@madmonk Jesus saves, but not in our sins. We are expected to repent. The cities which were destroyed were unrepentant even after many warnings. Let us learn from their mistakes. Let us be saved by the great Atonement of Jesus Christ by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. And live by the Spirit so as not to be deceived.
@LDS4Life71 You need to read the book of mormon and ask YOURSELF how could this be true. Ask yourself , why is it that the people, language, metals,animals,buildings ,topography, geographical location do not fit anywhere in a real world setting.
@kramd1 Its not confirmed by General Authorities, because its not doctrine, and they haven't receive revelation that they should declare MesoAmerica, as BofM lands.
This has nothing to do with archaeology. Even if we were to find proofs, General Authorities would still not confirm it .
Tapirs were a good source for food, and chariots carried tapirs. Chariots might have been a tool to transport tools, and steel sword was extremely rare
@TheSkepticChristian "if " & "might" operative words. The reason the general Authorities don't "confirm"a geographical location is because there is none & don't you mean horses were a good source of food. Didn't the lameites eat them all ?
Stop wanting it to be right and start looking at the truth.
"Another example is George Careless, who was known as a musical pioneer," Elder Costa said, recounting that Brother Careless left his home in England to emigrate with the Latter-day Saints, went on to be director of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and authored many Church hymns.
Moroni, son of Mormon, added some final comments and ultimately buried the plates (apparently after 421 A.D.) in a place (a hill in New York state - far from the central American setting of the Book of Mormon) where they would later be revealed to Joseph Smith in 1827.
Wow carterfamily and settypatch comments on this page with nothing else, but their bigotry and lies. Too bad they can't even refute the evidence, nor the spirit of the LORD that the book of Mormon provides to readers worldwide.
The origin of the tradition that Elijah would return at Passover seems to have been lost in antiquity. It has been suggested that Elijah's return was associated with Passover, the feast commemorating the redemption of Israel, because it would herald the coming of the Messiah, the Redeemer of Israel
The promise of Elijah, taught by the scribes in Jesus' day, is still remembered by the Jewish people every year at Passover. A special place is set for him, with a cup of wine. At a prescribed time during the meal, the door is opened for him to enter.
Hey, carterfamily! The same was said about cement just a few decades back when people didn't believe native americans actually used cement to construct buildings. Now cement use among the natives has been extensively verified and is no longer a valid point BoM critics bring up. But far from "proving" the BoM to be true, instead these findings lend support to the notion of the BoM being an authentic translation of records of ancient origin.
most used a metal node to strike flint to make fire. most swords were made of wood with flint embeded into it. armor made of leather . writings left carved in stone . not to mention that javalins, atlatls , ect . had clovis points.
and arrows for bows had very small bird points . ancient cities seem to be popping up here n there . if they had any coinage it probley got melted down and used for something else.
and a lot of findings in the american countries . that proved there were more people here than the landbridge travelers and disproved scientic evolution scales . were boxed up and stacked away from the public and deemed fakes . atlantians, egyptians, asia , nortic icelanders , had under taken massive world traveling , trade routes , and mining ,
Here is some iron ore, that proves the Book of Mormon is true!!! Don't ask for any real archaeological evidence though, like a sword, a building, a city, a piece of armor, a writing, a coin etc. Since there is no shred of archaeology that would indicate there ever was a Lamanite, Nephite, Jaredite etc. But we really shoudn't expect to find much evidence you know. Be sure to ignore Helaman 3:14 Mosiah 27:6 Helaman 11:20 Mormon 1:7 and Ether 10:21 etc.
@carterfamily8903 there is a BIG difference between spotting some iron ore
& smelting that ore into a usable material, especially for a hand full of people on an extended camping trip who would be totally preoccupied with the effort of feeding themselves/ survival! Go ahead! Show us how easy it is to make Iron! build your heavy duty campfire turn smelter & make some wrought Iron right there,& do it while feeding yourself on that barren land. What you would really produce is some corpses!
@settypatch It is interesting to me, that Nephi is supposedly building a temple like Solomons temple, within a few years of he and his family getting to the "promised land". Solomon had well over 100000 people working for 7 and 1/2 years to build his temple, and his father had left him all kinds of gold, silver, jewels and other things for building it with.
@carterfamily8903 thats the Magic of Joe's phantom fantasy BOM scam in action. Nephites dont have to have any resources, they generate nearly instant mega population & then dissappear with out a physical trace -just like the Gold Plates!
@settypatch Yeah, maybe the cities just sunk down into the earth, like the gold that Joseph took people out looking for. Maybe we need to be looking for quicksand?:-)
@carterfamily8903 "It would have been easy" well then the MORmON folks need to get on with their show & demonstrate this instead of just talking about it. Dig some of this ore out by hand, heat it up in the camp fire, pound on it with a rock & show us what comes of this "Easy" process, & BTW they have to come up with their own chow on the desert while doing all of this! ITS TOTAL FANTASY! the only thing they would produce would be their own DEMISE!
@carterfamily8903 Mormons are just like their founder Joseph Smith -all talk with no real substance. Go ahead! make up some wrought iron out of those "rich ore deposits", Lets see your wrought iron from an ore lump heated on a tumble weed camp fire & beaten between two rocks. GO FOR IT!
Sister Samuelson also spoke of the influence President McKay has had on her life.
Recalling a story from President McKay's life, she told of a motto he read on a stone while on his mission in Scotland. It read, "Whate'er thou art, act well thy part."
"Like President McKay, President Monson has always tried to do not only what he needed to do, but to do what he felt he should as one called to represent the Savior," he said. "I am most grateful for the lessons that these two great priesthood leaders have taught and are continuing to teach me."
Most fantastically of all, the Mormons believe their ancestors eventually built this ship here and sailed to the new world, i.e., the American continent. This would make Columbus's journey a bit of a joke, but no one is saying any of this is true yet. This is all part of the legend of the Mormons, described in the writings of the leader of the group that made the journey, Nephi. And the Mormons believe that Bountiful could be what is now known as Khor Kharfot.
This valley had everything they needed: fresh water, fruit-bearing trees, beehives with honey and a waterfront for easy fishing. It also had all the ingredients required to leave this land and continue their journey: trees large enough with which to build a ship, and iron ore deposits to smelt rudimentary tools.
The Mormons believe that their ancestors made a monumental 3,300km journey over land down the entire Arabian peninsula, to what is present day Yemen and then through the edges of the Empty Quarter and to the coast. After this epic land crossing, they reached a valley that eventually opened out on the sea, and a natural harbour.
The term Mormon isnÕt their official name it comes from the book they follow, The Book of Mormon. But it is a vague-enough term that has come to identify them, and we use it here so as not to get into specifics of their beliefs.
History and intrigue, for starters. While few Omanis apart from those in Dalkut are aware of its existence, a little-known group called the Mormons now based chiefly in the Americas has been eyeing Kharfot very closely.
For those who have been told that there isn't a scrap of evidence for the Book of Mormon, a refreshing new openness might follow when evidence from the Arabian Peninsula is considered.
"Kharfot Searching for Mormons" is the title of an article written by author and photographer Pinaki Chakravarty for Oman Today, a publication of Apex Press in Oman, the small Arab state on the eastern coast of the Arabian Peninsula which many LDS scholars believe contain the place that Nephi and group called Bountifu
Meaning. People are attracted and stay in a teaching pool because they heard something that had meaning in their lives. That meaning might be different for different people and that is why it is so important that missionaries listen to the Spirit to know what to say to each person individually.
Many people may start and hear the first discussion, but what makes them stay on is based on three words. They are the most important three words any missionary can remember in trying to teach the gospel, so important, said Senator Bennett, that they should be tattooed on the inside of your heads.
I have a key by which I understand the scriptures. I enquire, what was the question which drew out the answer or caused Jesus to utter the parable? -- Joseph Smith
Each of us chose the plan of our eldest brother who offered himself as our keeper, to watch out for us, and to sacrifice himself for our sakes. My hope and prayer is that we will remember this plan, and His sacrifice, and our pre-earthly choice to follow His example, and that we will find many appropriate ways to magnify our calling as keepers of each other, to bear one anothers burdens, and to be concerned with the welfare of our extended human family.
I would venture that each of us has at times succumb to the every-brother-for-himself attitude. However, the Gospel is about hope and reconciliation in the face of human weakness. Two of our brothers presented alternative plans embodying different ways of conceiving our responsibilities toward others in the pre-earth council.
For the past 18 months, "New FamilySearch," an Internet-based technology, has been rolled out across the Church. With its recent introduction to temple districts in Utah and Idaho, the system is now available everywhere in the Church except for the five temple districts in Asia.
"We, therefore, have been engaged for some time in a difficult undertaking. To avoid such duplication, the solution lies in complex computer technology. Preliminary indications are that if it will work, and if this is so, it will be a truly remarkable thing with worldwide implications."
That "difficult undertaking" has come to fruition nearly Churchwide today.
Ignatius mentioned "the false prophets and the false apostles" who had already come before his time.[12] He goes on to say that the last times are come upon us.[13]
Ignatious, "Epistle to the Philadelphians," (5) Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:56
"Epistle to the Ephesians," (11) Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:54
It takes almost a full year. In May 2007 the word comes: "Good luck with the project."
The only condition is that the documentary did not attempt to dramatize the Savior's life using actors.
Now that the project is greenlighted, the script is again revised. A target is set to begin filming in April of the next year -- a full decade since Brown watched "From Jesus to Christ" alone in his family room in 1998.
but I thought the longer we didn't hear, perhaps the better for the project. Because if somebody had wanted to kill it, they would have killed it within the first ten minutes."
The approval of the BYU administration is not a foregone conclusion. It also doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't happen in a week, or a month.
"We sent it in June, knowing that everybody would be on vacation in July or August. So, we probably wouldn't hear back until September at the earliest, and maybe November," Brown said. "But, of course, November came and went that year ...
"Everything that was to convince anybody that this was a good project had to be on the DVD and had to be on that one page of written summary," Brown said. "They had to sell the project."
One colleague, however, tells Brown she can't participate because of a mission call, but she expresses her hope about the project.
"I needed to be sure that this wasn't just all scholarship," she says to him, "that there would also be testimony." She says she hopes that the project would not be like the scripture that describes "waterless clouds" (Jude 1:12, International Standard Version).
"And following the sweep of all that through his relationship with prophets through the ages down through his birth and then beyond," he said in a telephone interview from Jerusalem where he now is the associate director of the BYU Jerusalem Center for Near Eastern Studies in charge of academics.
But making a documentary is not a solitary project. It requires many different people with many different skills. It takes money. It takes time.
Within a week, Brown hands his proposal to Robert L. Millet, dean of religious education at BYU in 1998. The documentary will begin with the pre-mortal council when Jehovah is chosen as the Savior.
If you claim to practice your religion, then you don't understand your religion.
The LDS Church does not teach their followers to get online and insult other people, to misrepresent the truth (as you clearly demonstrated with your blatant lies about Michael Quinn). The LDS Church teaches the exact opposite. Christ didn't teach people to judge unrighteously, yet you do it here on the internet.
This is called hypocrisy. It means you don't practice what you preach.
Part 2: Apostle Russell M. Ballard also said, "As you participate in this conversation and utilize the tools of new media, remember who you are—Latter-day Saints. Remember, as the proverb states, that a soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger (Proverbs 15:1). And remember that contention is of the devil (see 3 Nephi 11:29). There is no need to argue or contend with others regarding our beliefs. There is no need to become defensive or belligerent."
Part 1: Apostle Russell M. Ballard in the July 2008 Ensign said, "Things to Avoid" [when using the internet to talk about the LDS Church]: "Every disciple of Christ will be most effective and do the most good by adopting a demeanor worthy of a follower of the Savior. Discussions focused on questioning, debating, and doubting gospel principles do little to build the kingdom of God....."
Oops, I guess you failed on that account because that's what you've been doing.
Part 3: Reading Ballard's counsel (below), compare your comments to the counsel of an Apostle of God: you've called me a "dooshbag" [douchebag] you've made false claims (Michael Quinn being dead when he's alive), you call me a "vain liar" for which you have no evidence whatsoever, you made a homophobic remark of sending me and others like me to our "own island," and then you claim to be practicing your religion when your behavior goes directly against Ballard's counsel?
We believe in endurance to the end always keeping the commandments, said Ryan. We cant just say we accept Jesus Christ and now we can go and do something against the commandments of God.
I think their whole life they have been taught that this is the Bible and this is all God will ever say to us, said Jason. We believe there are more records to come, like the Dead Sea Scrolls. We believe God [still] speaks he didnt just speak [for a specific period of time] and that was it. Theres more. The worlds a big place.
People here are very familiar with the Bible, said Jason. And we love the Bible. The Book of John, in fact, is my favorite. The Book of Mormon is a record of the people of Ancient America who believed in Jesus Christ thousands and thousands of years ago.
The men were asked about the difference in the Book of Mormon and the King James Version of the Bible and why mainstream Christians sometimes question the contents of the Book of Mormon.
Phoenix's planning director, Debra Stark, also told residents in September that the federal Religious Freedom Act permits churches to be built in any type of zoning and does not restrict the height of a steeple or spire.
"They underestimated our neighborhood volunteers regarding this issue," Anderson said.
City officials said Wednesday that if the issue goes to a public vote and voters reject the height increase of the temple, then the church would build the structure at 30 feet high, which is under the old zoning regulations.
Some volunteers joined the cause for reasons such as a disagreement with the location, size and height of the temple, and because of the numerous visitors and vehicles the temple might bring to their neighborhood, and concern about how an existing two-lane road would accommodate traffic. But the only issue on the ballot would be the height and other stipulations such the color of the temple.
Many of the hikers signed the petition, said Gibbs, who estimates he collected 200 signatures seven days a week.
Many hikers agreed they don't want the temple in the neighborhood but "there were a few vociferous people who are for the temple and told us we're not going to go to heaven because we are doing this."
Volunteers also collected signatures in residential neighborhoods, at events such as gun shows, the post office and workplaces.
Residential zoning caps building height at 30 feet.
Gibbs started at trailheads in Thunderbird Park, chatted up other hikers and pointed north across the two-lane road to the empty lot next to a Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints or the future home of the Phoenix Temple.
Elli, who has the innate ability to transform her round face into a myriad of facial expressions, bunched her eyebrows, cocked her head to the side and exclaimed loudly and with much consternation, "What?"
I really got their attention, this time, when I said, "Two of these pictures won't be on the board next Sunday because Elli and Cole are 3-years-old and will go to Sunbeams.
But it was true. Katie had died in a wreck in Chesapeake, Va., just before midnight on Oct. 30.
In the two months since, I have thought of the Youngs often. How did Justin and the kids, 8-year-old Justin and 5-year-old Madison, get through the memorial service and the lonely, empty time that followed? How did the children go to sleep without their mother to tuck them in? How did Justin keep going without her there to talk to and embrace?
"There is nothing like travel. God really has worked with a lot of people in a lot of places. I have heard his voice in so many areas He has spoken to every people and given them great gifts. We can receive his gifts to us through the nations and through the arts and cultures of the worlds."
He has followed that passion through the years by traveling around the world, and one of his planned trips next year is to Antarctica.
Travel is one of his great loves. "I enjoy very much taking people to countries (and) showing them the beauty of that country and all the positive things.
Despite her high-profile experiences with the world-renowned choir, Sister Perrington still fights butterflies every time she performs Handel's "Messiah" with the Taylorsville stake. The 268-year-old work has deepened her appreciation for the Savior and the scriptures. "The spirit of the 'Messiah' is so strong," she said.
You can make personal attacks based on my personal profile, and that's fine. But my comment had nothing to do with my beliefs. My comment, if you bothered to read it, referred people to Quinn's books to find out for themselves. That's it. Bringing up my personal life in such a context is absurd.
You talk of his "unknown" book? Anyone with basic familiarity with this area knows about his books. If you're not aware of it, you're just displaying your blazing ignorance for everyone to see.
Seems to me that awolLDSasap has NO CLUE what he/she is talking about.
Seriously, where in the world did you get your information?? From some book or website writte by an enemy of the Church?
That's kinda like going to a Ford dealer and asking them to tell you about a Chevy, then making your decision based on a biased point of view! I mean really....
Dr. Quinn's overall thesis is that Joseph Smith and other early Latter-day Saint leaders were fundamentally influenced by occult and magical thought, books, and practices in the founding of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This is unmitigated nonsense. Yet the fact that Quinn could not discover a single primary source written by Latter-day Saints that makes any positive statement about magic is hardly dissuasive to a historian of Quinn's inventive capacity.
However, there is no evidence that Joseph and others considered these things to be "magic," or the "occult," nor did they consider "magic" or the "occult" to be positive things.
@TrueSaintsLDS I would recommend that readers go read Michael Quinn's books for themselves, rather than believing TrueSaintsLDS's comments here. Quinn backs up everything with documented evidence. Quinn is not attacking the Church, but sharing details about the origin that most people are not aware of. His first edition of this book came out when he was the head of the History Department at BYU. He was not fired for its publication or disciplined by the church for it.
LDS would recommend you repent and quit living in sin.
Michael Quinn just passed away and it says he was an professor in California. He died a Catholic, and so I just wonder just what you think he says that is so important, bud.
Again make the choice to return to the Lord and His church.
Changing the topic when you're losing the argument is a classical fallacy. Quinn's book was published when he was an active LDS professor at BYU, and he backed up everything he said with documented evidence. Make the choice to learn more about Church history, instead of ad hominem attacks to redirect attention from the problems you're sidestepping.
what book are you referring to. I was looking up on wikipedia, and found no publication. Maybe the book didn't go far? Maybe it never made a best seller? And Maybe it is an attack on the church of JESUS CHRIST. I really don't know what book YOU are talking about.
Are you serious? Read the thread before you start commenting. Quinn's book on Early Mormonism and the Magic World View is well known among scholars of LDS History. If you're never heard of it, you need to read it before you comment on things you know nothing about. Stop speculating about what he does or doesn't say, and read it for yourself, instead of spouting off nonsense that is completely uninformed.
I was looking on Wikipedia. and the Michael Quinn mentioned died at 86 this year. perhaps a different Michael.
I would be thrilled were Quinn
a Mormon apologist, but he is not. Taken as a whole, his recent work constitutes, and is widely interpreted as instance, refers to D. Michael Quinn who evidently believes little of Mormonism.
--John L. Smith, Those Who Write on Mormonism" (ie. Michael Quinn)
Stop for a moment and look at yourself: 1) you showed everyone here you know nothing of Quinn's books from first-hand experience, and have nothing to contribute, 2) you claimed Quinn had passed away, when in fact he's alive, 3) you don't address the issue at hand but engage in personal attacks in order to redirect the discussion.
Let me be really clear: it's nice you want to defend the Church. Nobody faults you for that. But you're doing a really bad job.
Quinn argues that Mormons now reject the magic practices they once embraced.
Well Mr. Prop8, Now I know what you are talking about. A complete wash! FAIRLDSdotORG has long since disproved your garbage author, OH and I do put the emphasis on the term GARBAGE. Anything else before I move on?
You're kidding me, right? You barely discovered who Quinn is today, you run to FairLDSorg to read as much as you can, and suddenly you're an expert. LOL. You don't have the foggiest clue, do you? Perhaps you'd like to express a specific issue, something a bit more finely nuanced, rather than talking like an 8th grader with your infantile "garbage" comments. No credibility.
If you want to defend the LDS faith, good for you. But try being a good example of your faith, and not a dweeb.
If you want to defend the LDS faith, you need to be credible. Credible means supporting your statements with facts and references, not simply offering up your knee-jerk opinion. And above all else, get your facts straight before you open your yap. You're treating me like some anti-Mormon, when you yourself are making demonstrably false statements (Michael Quinn dead? Yeah, right). You're out of your league, son. Take your ball and go play somewhere else.
Funny well on Wikipedia, your silly Quinn didn't even make it. The only one that REMOTELY resembled your silly Quinn is declared dead at 86. ]
The only quacks like you and the Tanners have in common are your shill parrot anti-mormon ways, and just because the foundation you never had is built upon the foundation of sand.
Did I say I had a ball? I hope you know I won't be going away so easily you proverbial dooshbag!
Prop8.: Quinn leans to his particular bias, as we all do. I read one of his book, & a tract that response to the Tanners, so they allege. Quinn, in my thinking, is like Stan Larsen & the Sun Stone crowd, & Dan Vogel types, they get themselves in trouble with main stream LDS by challenging LDS with different anti-LDS leanings under the guise of claiming to believe. If memory serve me correct, they were "purged" from the church during the "intellectual purges" of the 1990s or so.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not including all of Sun Stoners as having been purged, for many haven't, as far as I know. Also, some of my friends go to the meetings, as I have. Sun Stone & Mormon Miscellaneous forums & radios shows, give LDS & critics a chance to talk about different issues. As for the gay rights issue, I'm for traditional family. If Gods wanted it other way, then he & she would have made gays able to have kids in their acts, but they can't. However, I wish no ill on anyone.
While same-sex marriage and gay rights is not what I was trying to discuss here, I think it's valuable to remember that many heterosexual couples are not capable of having children. If the criteria for such relationships is "to have kids in their acts," then we should only permit fertile, non-birth control practicing couples to marry. Fair enough? But marriage is so much more than that (emotional well-being, visitation rights, taxation, etc). Church and State really should be separate.
Perhaps we should just give you, your own island, that way we wouldn't have to be subjected by your views on homosexuality. Your desire to make it appear "OK" to society, though gaining some momentum, still doesn't make it right, and the church message that was received in church was: "the day that your kind of living becomes ok with society, then speedily will the LORD be rebuking us." Therefore there is absolutely no way we could stand back and just be idle.
You're correct: Michael Quinn was one of the "September Six" who was excommunicated in Sept 1993 for his research (he left BYU in 1988). But it's important to remember that his research under discussion here was published in 1987, while he was the head of the history department at BYU. He was never censured for that research, but for subsequent research. For me personally, I think people should judge his work by its merits, and not by assassinating his character.
Doesn't the scripture say "Judge not that ye be not judged"? You seem to know a lot about Quinn's internal spiritual life for someone who doesn't actually know him. If you, as LDS, care about the "spiritual side," then practice your religion and stop judging others in this manner.
I am sorry you are less educated. Your position typically leads to much spiritual confusion on your part. In fact, as help, here is what the scriptures say about judging the wicked.
"For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night. "
Before you accuse someone of being less educated, you should make sure you can support your conclusions.
Case in point: you have taken Moroni 7:15 OUT OF CONTEXT. That scripture does NOT support judging PEOPLE, their hearts or their motives. The scripture is about judging TRUTH from ERROR. But it is NOT a scripture that gives you permission to judge other people, their hearts, their motives.
Spiritual confusion arises from misinterpreting the scriptures in the way you just showed.
maybe you should reread the scripture. When one becomes spiritually DARK, one does NOT know the difference between good and evil and how to judge them. I would suggest you REPENT!
Really, Omiolo, go back and read the entire chapter and put it into context. NOWHERE does that scripture justify JUDGING SOMEONE'S CHARACTER. You are misinterpreting the text. Period. You clearly don't understand LDS doctrine. Go back to Sunday School, learn your religion, don't take scriptures out of context, and practice what you preach. If you are using this MISINTERPRETATION to justify judging other people, then YOU SERIOUSLY need to REPENT. Work on yourself before preaching to others
try NOT to make judging good from evil complicated. It really is NOT. You can pretend that you should NOT judge good from evil and I will continue to judge good from evil.
When your spiritual tuning becomes corrupt, it is TYPICAL that you do NOT want to distinguish good from evil. You try and make evil good.
I don't think that is a spiritual healthy position to be in! No matter how you TWIST the Holy Scriptures!
Dude, you really are mentally challenged, aren't you. Discerning truth from error (which is what Moroni 7 is talking about) is DIFFERENT from judging another person's heart and character. YOU have taken the scripture out of context and twisted it to your own purposes. You can accuse me all you like, but you're patently wrong on this one because you are altering LDS doctrine. If you don't realize what you're doing, you need to go back to seminary and figure it out.
You used Moroni 7 to justify the act of judging other peoples' character. But that scripture is not talking about judging other peoples' character. That's not MY twisting of the scriptures at all. It's YOUR misinterpretation of the scripture. Period. End of discussion.
If you don't understand how and why your ripped that scripture out of context, then that's your problem, not mine.
But you're misrepresenting the LDS church with your false doctrine
You read the scriptures, but you clearly didn't understand them.
Again, the point is this: You took Moroni 7 out of context. You used your misinterpretation to engage in unrighteous judgement. So yes, you "know how to judge," but unrighteously so. It's called hypocrisy. Look it up.
Cast out the beam in your own eye before trying to take the mote out of anyone else's. Sound familiar?
I actually enjoy reading your comments. I keep wondering how long you will stick to your guns about **good and evil** not including all types of **good and evil**?
Then to think, you are the one that gets to decided which evil is really good......
Read it for yourself. Reference to steel swords in the book of mormon. "the sword of Laban cuts off the head of mormon apologetic argument. Supposedly found with the golden book in a large stone box. Later spotted hanging on a wall in a cave inside a cave with a wagon load of golden books. Later found unsheathed with english words inscribed on it.
kramd1 4 months ago
Why does the Mormon church do any research at all? Don't they just tell people to pray to Heavenly Father and he will tell them that the BOM is true? What's happening now, they don't believe the answer they're getting from Heavenly Father? Are they actually going to try to proooove the BOM now? No! That would mean they would actually have to engage, answer direct questions and yes even admit, possibly, that they are incorrect, that the BOM is NOT true and that Joseph Smith was a fraud.
freestanding1000 4 months ago
Evidence ? The sword of Laban is described in the BofM as made from fine steel and precious metals. The mormon apology has the BofM characters using the mesoamerican wooden broad sword. "the wood nickel". The apology for the missing swords is laughable. Reading the book of mormon, there is no parallels to real world geography or culture. It doesn't fit anywhere.
kramd1 6 months ago
Comment removed
KASTNERHONDA 4 months ago
@kramd1 The BackYardProffessor has videos claiming that such swords:: wood and rocks, qualify for a metal sword. These guys have no shame. None. They will say or do anything, often times believing it themselves, to preserve the lie of Mormonism
IExposeMormonism 2 months ago
@IExposeMormonism Such blatant lies. Mormons are the first to accuse, any or all that questions the book of mormon, of being anti-mormon and quickly resort to name calling.
It's like your bursting balloons at a children christmas party & telling the children Santa is not real.
Like: Steel swords are a wooden club ? a 3 foot high four legged Tapir is a horse ?
a mayan ziggurat is a temple of Solomon ? american indians are jews ? mormon Jesus is Quetzalcoatl ?
kramd1 2 months ago
@kramd1 And Cumorah is in South America, Mormonism is the Eternal Presence of an Absence, it leaves us wanting for evidence. When we have evidence, like with the absurd Book of Abraham, written in Real Egyptian, they deny the evidence is there and insist there are missing portions. Something is always missing in Mormon claims. Truth and evidence. A little research would clear the cluttered brain.
IExposeMormonism 2 months ago
@IExposeMormonism I find more evidences that support the BofM, than the Bible.
TheSkepticChristian 2 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian We know where the bible comes from But of the B of M it involves angels and a host of heavenly visitors ( even John the Baptist complete with his head on ) appearing to Joseph Smith. Who wrote ( plagiarised ) a tale of a people that have nothing in common with any former inhabitants of the americas ( certainly not Mayans ) the lack of evidence is a mormon hallmark. They are good at total horse poo. ( Tapir droppings )
kramd1 2 months ago
@kramd1 Do you have faith that all reality has a natural explanation??
Are you Atheist??
TheSkepticChristian 2 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian No I'm skeptic.
kramd1 2 months ago
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@TheSkepticChristian "I find more evidences that support the BofM, than the Bible." I would suggest you Study some real biblical archeology anthropology and linguistics and wake up
IExposeMormonism 2 months ago 2
This video circumvents the lack of metallurgic evidence in Mezo & South America. I don't care about iron in the middle east - show me evidence for steel in the new world and I might consider changing my opinion.
madmonk 9 months ago 14
@madmonk well that arguement doesn't hold water. That's like saying SHOW ME THE ARC OF THE COVENANT the Jews and Moses brought with them....
You need to read the book of Mormon cover to cover for yourself, and prayerfully ponder its words before making such judgements, because your opinion is not yet educated based on what you said.
LDS4Life71 9 months ago
@LDS4Life71 Quite the contrary; my argument holds plenty of water. The metallurgy described in the BOM would have left major evidences in the new world, and it's simply not there. There is plenty of pre-columbian metallurgy in the middle east, but that doesn't mean it belonged to Nephi's group. That same evidence needs to exist in Meso America, not the middle east. Then we'll have something to discuss. And yes, I read the BOM many, many times cover to cover, prayerfully. Not convinced.
madmonk 9 months ago 5
@madmonk The metallurgy died off with them. The early blacksmiths were killed off in the fighting with the wicked people that fought them. The text does mention that. Archaeology hasn't cracked even 3% of the pyramids that make up Mirador.
Cortez however noted that he saw every type of weapons. Wooden and metal.
because the flint embedded wood handled weapons were more effective, the people changed their tactics.
Steel was only used very early in the BoM text.
LDS4Life71 9 months ago
@LDS4Life71 OK, but archaeologists agree that metallurgy wasn't developed until around 600 AD at the earliest. This is one of the many, MANY peices of evidence showing that the Book of Mormon is false. In other words, there were no early blacksmiths to be killed off in the first place. And as to the flint... Not even used during BOM times.
madmonk 8 months ago 3
@madmonk You have no evidence to support it. There were early smiths, and they did do primitive metal working. They were killed off in battle against the Lamanites.
LDS4Life71 8 months ago
@LDS4Life71 First you need to prove that the Lamanites even existed. If there were early smiths then there must be mines, so unless there has been a recent discovery in the last year, I'm not aware of any mining evidence. Joseph Smith's book indicates metallurgy throughout. Brass, copper, fine metals, even coinage is mentioned in the book of Alma. How can this be when metal working didn't even start until after Moroni died? Easy; he never existed.
madmonk 8 months ago 3
@madmonk You aren't making sense. You think that it's that easy, but it isn't. copper pieces have been found.
LDS4Life71 8 months ago
@LDS4Life71 Copper from what time period? Remember that the church even supports the idea of metallurgy all throughout BOM times. Just look at earlier versions of the BOM where artwork shows armies with metal swords and armor. Those versions of the BOM bare the church logo, and are considered scripture.
madmonk 8 months ago
@LDS4Life71 and they ate very single horse, elephant and cow.
"all the blacksmiths were killed off ,, by the dark skin wicked one"
kramd1 2 months ago
@madmonk Also the word Steel wasn't the true steel we use today, but a weaker alloy similar to carbon heated iron or bronze, but again when you deal with a translation done by one who is uneducated, the word steels true meaning may have been blurred.
I read the BoM cover to cover and I am convinced.
LDS4Life71 9 months ago
@LDS4Life71 Is there evidence for the word steel not being the steel we use today? How about the other metals? And didn't the translation supposedly come from god? How then could it be flawed?
madmonk 8 months ago
@madmonk The translation came from God, but the source is one with a small vocabulary. Imagine seeing animals that are not anywhere seen before but you have to come up with a name for them based on your 3rd grade education. Joseph Smith was uneducated, but it fulfills the prophecies of Isaiah. That an uneducated person would translate the book and not one with an degree.
LDS4Life71 8 months ago
@LDS4Life71 Joseph could read very well and had quite an extensive vocabulary. I've read letters written by him, and was shocked at how eloquently he actually wrote (contrary to what the church teaches about his literacy). Funny that you should bring up Isaiah - the JST of Isaiah inserted references of Joseph which don't match the Dead Sea Scroll's translation.
madmonk 8 months ago
@madmonk There is an explanation for that as well.
FAIRLDS.org
for the truth
The arguement doesn't hold water, because the Dead Sea scrolls have proven the book of Mormon more corect also in places than the bible translation.
LDS4Life71 8 months ago
@LDS4Life71 I've been to FAIR's website and I'm not impressed with the way they handled the Abraham issue, nor was I convinced by their explanations of the Kinderhook plates or any other issue for that matter. I scoured their site for years hoping for a reconciliation, but only found more confusion.
madmonk 8 months ago
@madmonk LOL Kinderhook plates were a scam. Book of Abraham is alittle more tricky, but there is NO explantion away for the book of Moses. It is just as viable as the book of Abraham.
LDS4Life71 8 months ago
@madmonk The book of Enoch also supports many LDS only ideas. I am about to read it as soon as it comes in the mail.
LDS4Life71 8 months ago
@madmonk It was the power of God that allowed such a translation to commence, and Joseph Smith with his great faith in God was given the commission to do the work.
LDS4Life71 8 months ago
@LDS4Life71 You have got to be kidding me. Steel is an alloy of iron and carbon. Period. Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin/antimony/aluminum/lead. What exactly is 'carbon heated iron'? Is that just a charcoal forge in which wrought iron is worked? And where are these iron swords? Museums have iron swords more than 2,000 years old from Europe.
Froddofromtheshire 4 months ago
@Froddofromtheshire It's NOT pure steel, but it's an allow that CAN and WAS USED BY Nephi. the ore is there. The book of Mormon lands were in meso america. YOU can go excavate jungle if you want to. good luck. BTW all BoM metallurgy was only in the begginning of the text, and the technology was lost because of the fighting killed off the ones with the knowledge to be called "smiths."
LDS4Life71 4 months ago
@Froddofromtheshire Archaeology has found the early meso american smithing forge spots.
LDS4Life71 4 months ago
@LDS4Life71 And I assume they are in Cumorah in South America? Because now you and others claim it there. And that despite all those Mormon names in the Eastern USA! And were so named Before the BofM was dug up in NY, in a drumlin, left there, according you New Age Mormonism, when Moroni walked thousands of miles with a book weighing at least 45 lbs if copper and gold. And Ol' Moroni left not a word of this travel, he just slammed it into a fancy box and left it there
IExposeMormonism 2 months ago
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@madmonk Jesus saves, but not in our sins. We are expected to repent. The cities which were destroyed were unrepentant even after many warnings. Let us learn from their mistakes. Let us be saved by the great Atonement of Jesus Christ by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. And live by the Spirit so as not to be deceived.
LDS4Life71 8 months ago
@LDS4Life71 You need to read the book of mormon and ask YOURSELF how could this be true. Ask yourself , why is it that the people, language, metals,animals,buildings ,topography, geographical location do not fit anywhere in a real world setting.
kramd1 2 months ago
@kramd1 Of course the BofM is true, we know that la venta is the city of mulek, or zarahamla is in the central depresion of chiapas.
The BofM is true, and it does fit a real world setting the problem is the way to imagine the BofM, and your assumptions
TheSkepticChristian 2 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian La Venta is a hopeful model among many. No official site or geographical location has been confirmed by any mormon prophet.
In any case, You would surely find at least one steel sword or a river sidon and a sea east and west actually corresponding to the B of M tale.
I suppose your elephants fly and Tapirs pull Chariots too in la la land.
kramd1 2 months ago
@kramd1 Its not confirmed by General Authorities, because its not doctrine, and they haven't receive revelation that they should declare MesoAmerica, as BofM lands.
This has nothing to do with archaeology. Even if we were to find proofs, General Authorities would still not confirm it .
Tapirs were a good source for food, and chariots carried tapirs. Chariots might have been a tool to transport tools, and steel sword was extremely rare
TheSkepticChristian 2 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian "if " & "might" operative words. The reason the general Authorities don't "confirm"a geographical location is because there is none & don't you mean horses were a good source of food. Didn't the lameites eat them all ?
Stop wanting it to be right and start looking at the truth.
5 million xmormons and counting.
kramd1 2 months ago
@kramd1 lol of course the locations do exist.
General Authorities don't confirm it, because they haven't received revelation to do it, its just that simple.
So are you Atheist???
Anyways, have a nice internet anti-mormon life dude, but the girls won't like you for that.
I have studied the other side, and I still have the conclusion that the LDS church is true.
TheSkepticChristian 2 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian He's an idiot.
LDS4Life71 1 week ago
pull your heads out of your butts, take a deep breath try again....
FUwogs 1 year ago
mormons = crazy
TrappedInsideTheBox 1 year ago
@TrappedInsideTheBox religion=crazy
FUwogs 1 year ago
@FUwogs true that
TrappedInsideTheBox 1 year ago
I thought it will be evidence of iron ore processing in America, it turned out to be typical mormon bullshit
sekulaadam 1 year ago
"He sacrificed much, and he received great honors in his lifetime; most important, he remained a willing servant of the Lord," Elder Costa remarked.
omiolo 1 year ago
"Another example is George Careless, who was known as a musical pioneer," Elder Costa said, recounting that Brother Careless left his home in England to emigrate with the Latter-day Saints, went on to be director of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and authored many Church hymns.
omiolo 1 year ago
Moroni, son of Mormon, added some final comments and ultimately buried the plates (apparently after 421 A.D.) in a place (a hill in New York state - far from the central American setting of the Book of Mormon) where they would later be revealed to Joseph Smith in 1827.
LDS4Life71 1 year ago
Wow carterfamily and settypatch comments on this page with nothing else, but their bigotry and lies. Too bad they can't even refute the evidence, nor the spirit of the LORD that the book of Mormon provides to readers worldwide.
FAIRLDSdotORG
for the truth
LDS4Life71 1 year ago
I think it would be fun to go there and make tools, retracing Nephi's steps.
trappedhere2 1 year ago
We get well over 100 questions each month. We had 150 sent to us just
in the month of August alone. Typically the questions we get are from
people who had an idea of what the Church was supposed to be like, and
then didn't know how to handle it when their image didn't match
something else they were told. The real question for us becomes how to
respond.
omiolo 1 year ago
The origin of the tradition that Elijah would return at Passover seems to have been lost in antiquity. It has been suggested that Elijah's return was associated with Passover, the feast commemorating the redemption of Israel, because it would herald the coming of the Messiah, the Redeemer of Israel
omiolo 1 year ago
The promise of Elijah, taught by the scribes in Jesus' day, is still remembered by the Jewish people every year at Passover. A special place is set for him, with a cup of wine. At a prescribed time during the meal, the door is opened for him to enter.
omiolo 1 year ago
Hey, carterfamily! The same was said about cement just a few decades back when people didn't believe native americans actually used cement to construct buildings. Now cement use among the natives has been extensively verified and is no longer a valid point BoM critics bring up. But far from "proving" the BoM to be true, instead these findings lend support to the notion of the BoM being an authentic translation of records of ancient origin.
WildernessOfTruth 2 years ago 7
not to mention that .
most used a metal node to strike flint to make fire. most swords were made of wood with flint embeded into it. armor made of leather . writings left carved in stone . not to mention that javalins, atlatls , ect . had clovis points.
and arrows for bows had very small bird points . ancient cities seem to be popping up here n there . if they had any coinage it probley got melted down and used for something else.
rbvmtr 1 year ago
and a lot of findings in the american countries . that proved there were more people here than the landbridge travelers and disproved scientic evolution scales . were boxed up and stacked away from the public and deemed fakes . atlantians, egyptians, asia , nortic icelanders , had under taken massive world traveling , trade routes , and mining ,
rbvmtr 1 year ago
Here is some iron ore, that proves the Book of Mormon is true!!! Don't ask for any real archaeological evidence though, like a sword, a building, a city, a piece of armor, a writing, a coin etc. Since there is no shred of archaeology that would indicate there ever was a Lamanite, Nephite, Jaredite etc. But we really shoudn't expect to find much evidence you know. Be sure to ignore Helaman 3:14 Mosiah 27:6 Helaman 11:20 Mormon 1:7 and Ether 10:21 etc.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
@carterfamily8903 there is a BIG difference between spotting some iron ore
& smelting that ore into a usable material, especially for a hand full of people on an extended camping trip who would be totally preoccupied with the effort of feeding themselves/ survival! Go ahead! Show us how easy it is to make Iron! build your heavy duty campfire turn smelter & make some wrought Iron right there,& do it while feeding yourself on that barren land. What you would really produce is some corpses!
settypatch 1 year ago
@settypatch It is interesting to me, that Nephi is supposedly building a temple like Solomons temple, within a few years of he and his family getting to the "promised land". Solomon had well over 100000 people working for 7 and 1/2 years to build his temple, and his father had left him all kinds of gold, silver, jewels and other things for building it with.
carterfamily8903 1 year ago
@carterfamily8903 thats the Magic of Joe's phantom fantasy BOM scam in action. Nephites dont have to have any resources, they generate nearly instant mega population & then dissappear with out a physical trace -just like the Gold Plates!
settypatch 1 year ago
@settypatch Yeah, maybe the cities just sunk down into the earth, like the gold that Joseph took people out looking for. Maybe we need to be looking for quicksand?:-)
carterfamily8903 1 year ago
@carterfamily8903 "It would have been easy" well then the MORmON folks need to get on with their show & demonstrate this instead of just talking about it. Dig some of this ore out by hand, heat it up in the camp fire, pound on it with a rock & show us what comes of this "Easy" process, & BTW they have to come up with their own chow on the desert while doing all of this! ITS TOTAL FANTASY! the only thing they would produce would be their own DEMISE!
settypatch 1 year ago
@carterfamily8903 Mormons are just like their founder Joseph Smith -all talk with no real substance. Go ahead! make up some wrought iron out of those "rich ore deposits", Lets see your wrought iron from an ore lump heated on a tumble weed camp fire & beaten between two rocks. GO FOR IT!
settypatch 1 year ago
Sister Samuelson also spoke of the influence President McKay has had on her life.
Recalling a story from President McKay's life, she told of a motto he read on a stone while on his mission in Scotland. It read, "Whate'er thou art, act well thy part."
omiolo 2 years ago
"Like President McKay, President Monson has always tried to do not only what he needed to do, but to do what he felt he should as one called to represent the Savior," he said. "I am most grateful for the lessons that these two great priesthood leaders have taught and are continuing to teach me."
omiolo 2 years ago
Most fantastically of all, the Mormons believe their ancestors eventually built this ship here and sailed to the new world, i.e., the American continent. This would make Columbus's journey a bit of a joke, but no one is saying any of this is true yet. This is all part of the legend of the Mormons, described in the writings of the leader of the group that made the journey, Nephi. And the Mormons believe that Bountiful could be what is now known as Khor Kharfot.
omiolo 2 years ago
but hay , leaf ericson , a norse traveler came to north america before columbus
and before him . many more Chinese , Egyptians ect . have been here too .
also seems the Atlantians also had major cities of export all over the world .
rbvmtr 1 year ago
This valley had everything they needed: fresh water, fruit-bearing trees, beehives with honey and a waterfront for easy fishing. It also had all the ingredients required to leave this land and continue their journey: trees large enough with which to build a ship, and iron ore deposits to smelt rudimentary tools.
omiolo 2 years ago
The Mormons believe that their ancestors made a monumental 3,300km journey over land down the entire Arabian peninsula, to what is present day Yemen and then through the edges of the Empty Quarter and to the coast. After this epic land crossing, they reached a valley that eventually opened out on the sea, and a natural harbour.
omiolo 2 years ago
The term Mormon isnÕt their official name it comes from the book they follow, The Book of Mormon. But it is a vague-enough term that has come to identify them, and we use it here so as not to get into specifics of their beliefs.
omiolo 2 years ago
HISTORY AND INTRIGUE
The legend of the Mormons
History and intrigue, for starters. While few Omanis apart from those in Dalkut are aware of its existence, a little-known group called the Mormons now based chiefly in the Americas has been eyeing Kharfot very closely.
omiolo 2 years ago
For those who have been told that there isn't a scrap of evidence for the Book of Mormon, a refreshing new openness might follow when evidence from the Arabian Peninsula is considered.
omiolo 2 years ago
"Kharfot Searching for Mormons" is the title of an article written by author and photographer Pinaki Chakravarty for Oman Today, a publication of Apex Press in Oman, the small Arab state on the eastern coast of the Arabian Peninsula which many LDS scholars believe contain the place that Nephi and group called Bountifu
omiolo 2 years ago
Open-Mindedness Alert: Non-LDS Observer Reports on His Visit to a Candidate for Nephi's Bountiful
omiolo 2 years ago
Meaning. People are attracted and stay in a teaching pool because they heard something that had meaning in their lives. That meaning might be different for different people and that is why it is so important that missionaries listen to the Spirit to know what to say to each person individually.
omiolo 2 years ago
Many people may start and hear the first discussion, but what makes them stay on is based on three words. They are the most important three words any missionary can remember in trying to teach the gospel, so important, said Senator Bennett, that they should be tattooed on the inside of your heads.
They are: meaning, confirming and belonging.
omiolo 2 years ago
I have a key by which I understand the scriptures. I enquire, what was the question which drew out the answer or caused Jesus to utter the parable? -- Joseph Smith
omiolo 2 years ago
Each of us chose the plan of our eldest brother who offered himself as our keeper, to watch out for us, and to sacrifice himself for our sakes. My hope and prayer is that we will remember this plan, and His sacrifice, and our pre-earthly choice to follow His example, and that we will find many appropriate ways to magnify our calling as keepers of each other, to bear one anothers burdens, and to be concerned with the welfare of our extended human family.
omiolo 2 years ago
I would venture that each of us has at times succumb to the every-brother-for-himself attitude. However, the Gospel is about hope and reconciliation in the face of human weakness. Two of our brothers presented alternative plans embodying different ways of conceiving our responsibilities toward others in the pre-earth council.
omiolo 2 years ago
For the past 18 months, "New FamilySearch," an Internet-based technology, has been rolled out across the Church. With its recent introduction to temple districts in Utah and Idaho, the system is now available everywhere in the Church except for the five temple districts in Asia.
omiolo 2 years ago
"We, therefore, have been engaged for some time in a difficult undertaking. To avoid such duplication, the solution lies in complex computer technology. Preliminary indications are that if it will work, and if this is so, it will be a truly remarkable thing with worldwide implications."
That "difficult undertaking" has come to fruition nearly Churchwide today.
omiolo 2 years ago
Ignatius mentioned "the false prophets and the false apostles" who had already come before his time.[12] He goes on to say that the last times are come upon us.[13]
Ignatious, "Epistle to the Philadelphians," (5) Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:56
"Epistle to the Ephesians," (11) Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:54
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
It takes almost a full year. In May 2007 the word comes: "Good luck with the project."
The only condition is that the documentary did not attempt to dramatize the Savior's life using actors.
Now that the project is greenlighted, the script is again revised. A target is set to begin filming in April of the next year -- a full decade since Brown watched "From Jesus to Christ" alone in his family room in 1998.
omiolo 2 years ago
but I thought the longer we didn't hear, perhaps the better for the project. Because if somebody had wanted to kill it, they would have killed it within the first ten minutes."
omiolo 2 years ago
The approval of the BYU administration is not a foregone conclusion. It also doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't happen in a week, or a month.
"We sent it in June, knowing that everybody would be on vacation in July or August. So, we probably wouldn't hear back until September at the earliest, and maybe November," Brown said. "But, of course, November came and went that year ...
omiolo 2 years ago
It is June 2006.
There is no in-person presentation.
"Everything that was to convince anybody that this was a good project had to be on the DVD and had to be on that one page of written summary," Brown said. "They had to sell the project."
omiolo 2 years ago
One colleague, however, tells Brown she can't participate because of a mission call, but she expresses her hope about the project.
"I needed to be sure that this wasn't just all scholarship," she says to him, "that there would also be testimony." She says she hopes that the project would not be like the scripture that describes "waterless clouds" (Jude 1:12, International Standard Version).
omiolo 2 years ago
"And following the sweep of all that through his relationship with prophets through the ages down through his birth and then beyond," he said in a telephone interview from Jerusalem where he now is the associate director of the BYU Jerusalem Center for Near Eastern Studies in charge of academics.
omiolo 2 years ago
But making a documentary is not a solitary project. It requires many different people with many different skills. It takes money. It takes time.
Within a week, Brown hands his proposal to Robert L. Millet, dean of religious education at BYU in 1998. The documentary will begin with the pre-mortal council when Jehovah is chosen as the Savior.
omiolo 2 years ago
I practice my religion, Prop8 is a vain liar!
but I do make good jokes!
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
@LDSapo71
If you claim to practice your religion, then you don't understand your religion.
The LDS Church does not teach their followers to get online and insult other people, to misrepresent the truth (as you clearly demonstrated with your blatant lies about Michael Quinn). The LDS Church teaches the exact opposite. Christ didn't teach people to judge unrighteously, yet you do it here on the internet.
This is called hypocrisy. It means you don't practice what you preach.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
Part 2: Apostle Russell M. Ballard also said, "As you participate in this conversation and utilize the tools of new media, remember who you are—Latter-day Saints. Remember, as the proverb states, that a soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger (Proverbs 15:1). And remember that contention is of the devil (see 3 Nephi 11:29). There is no need to argue or contend with others regarding our beliefs. There is no need to become defensive or belligerent."
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
Part 1: Apostle Russell M. Ballard in the July 2008 Ensign said, "Things to Avoid" [when using the internet to talk about the LDS Church]: "Every disciple of Christ will be most effective and do the most good by adopting a demeanor worthy of a follower of the Savior. Discussions focused on questioning, debating, and doubting gospel principles do little to build the kingdom of God....."
Oops, I guess you failed on that account because that's what you've been doing.
But there's more...
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
Part 3: Reading Ballard's counsel (below), compare your comments to the counsel of an Apostle of God: you've called me a "dooshbag" [douchebag] you've made false claims (Michael Quinn being dead when he's alive), you call me a "vain liar" for which you have no evidence whatsoever, you made a homophobic remark of sending me and others like me to our "own island," and then you claim to be practicing your religion when your behavior goes directly against Ballard's counsel?
Hypocrite.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
well let's see, if the shoes fit...
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
...wear it.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
We believe in endurance to the end always keeping the commandments, said Ryan. We cant just say we accept Jesus Christ and now we can go and do something against the commandments of God.
omiolo 2 years ago
I think their whole life they have been taught that this is the Bible and this is all God will ever say to us, said Jason. We believe there are more records to come, like the Dead Sea Scrolls. We believe God [still] speaks he didnt just speak [for a specific period of time] and that was it. Theres more. The worlds a big place.
omiolo 2 years ago
People here are very familiar with the Bible, said Jason. And we love the Bible. The Book of John, in fact, is my favorite. The Book of Mormon is a record of the people of Ancient America who believed in Jesus Christ thousands and thousands of years ago.
The men were asked about the difference in the Book of Mormon and the King James Version of the Bible and why mainstream Christians sometimes question the contents of the Book of Mormon.
omiolo 2 years ago
A calendar of LDS-themed events from around the United States and Canada.
CHURCHWIDE * CES fireside: Elder Neil L. Andersen, Jan. 10, 6 p.m. MST
omiolo 2 years ago
Phoenix's planning director, Debra Stark, also told residents in September that the federal Religious Freedom Act permits churches to be built in any type of zoning and does not restrict the height of a steeple or spire.
omiolo 2 years ago
"They underestimated our neighborhood volunteers regarding this issue," Anderson said.
City officials said Wednesday that if the issue goes to a public vote and voters reject the height increase of the temple, then the church would build the structure at 30 feet high, which is under the old zoning regulations.
omiolo 2 years ago
Some volunteers joined the cause for reasons such as a disagreement with the location, size and height of the temple, and because of the numerous visitors and vehicles the temple might bring to their neighborhood, and concern about how an existing two-lane road would accommodate traffic. But the only issue on the ballot would be the height and other stipulations such the color of the temple.
omiolo 2 years ago
Many of the hikers signed the petition, said Gibbs, who estimates he collected 200 signatures seven days a week.
Many hikers agreed they don't want the temple in the neighborhood but "there were a few vociferous people who are for the temple and told us we're not going to go to heaven because we are doing this."
Volunteers also collected signatures in residential neighborhoods, at events such as gun shows, the post office and workplaces.
omiolo 2 years ago
Residential zoning caps building height at 30 feet.
Gibbs started at trailheads in Thunderbird Park, chatted up other hikers and pointed north across the two-lane road to the empty lot next to a Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints or the future home of the Phoenix Temple.
omiolo 2 years ago
Elli, who has the innate ability to transform her round face into a myriad of facial expressions, bunched her eyebrows, cocked her head to the side and exclaimed loudly and with much consternation, "What?"
omiolo 2 years ago
They are big kids now and won't be in nursery anymore."
While my statement was true, it wasn't the most considerate.
I'll never forget the look on Cole's face when he realized the monument of his existence was about to be stripped away.
omiolo 2 years ago
I really got their attention, this time, when I said, "Two of these pictures won't be on the board next Sunday because Elli and Cole are 3-years-old and will go to Sunbeams.
omiolo 2 years ago
Things haven't been easy, but it turns out the Youngs are a strong, faithful, trusting bunch of people.
omiolo 2 years ago
But it was true. Katie had died in a wreck in Chesapeake, Va., just before midnight on Oct. 30.
In the two months since, I have thought of the Youngs often. How did Justin and the kids, 8-year-old Justin and 5-year-old Madison, get through the memorial service and the lonely, empty time that followed? How did the children go to sleep without their mother to tuck them in? How did Justin keep going without her there to talk to and embrace?
omiolo 2 years ago
"There is nothing like travel. God really has worked with a lot of people in a lot of places. I have heard his voice in so many areas He has spoken to every people and given them great gifts. We can receive his gifts to us through the nations and through the arts and cultures of the worlds."
omiolo 2 years ago
He has followed that passion through the years by traveling around the world, and one of his planned trips next year is to Antarctica.
Travel is one of his great loves. "I enjoy very much taking people to countries (and) showing them the beauty of that country and all the positive things.
omiolo 2 years ago
Sister Smith and Sister Perrington hope their most recent involvement with their stake's performance of beloved oratorio won't be their last.
"I'll do it as long as I can," said Sister Smith.
omiolo 2 years ago
Despite her high-profile experiences with the world-renowned choir, Sister Perrington still fights butterflies every time she performs Handel's "Messiah" with the Taylorsville stake. The 268-year-old work has deepened her appreciation for the Savior and the scriptures. "The spirit of the 'Messiah' is so strong," she said.
omiolo 2 years ago
How can i truly rebuttle what you say about Quinn if his UNKNOWN book is so important?
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
And Yes I was commenting on your personal profile and it's can of worms you bring with it.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
You can make personal attacks based on my personal profile, and that's fine. But my comment had nothing to do with my beliefs. My comment, if you bothered to read it, referred people to Quinn's books to find out for themselves. That's it. Bringing up my personal life in such a context is absurd.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
You talk of his "unknown" book? Anyone with basic familiarity with this area knows about his books. If you're not aware of it, you're just displaying your blazing ignorance for everyone to see.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
wow, this is just as ridiculous, as someone trying to say that the Angels are actually Aliens and that God is from planet X.
theembracedofgod 2 years ago
I'll give you insight that Sidney didn't write it. try again.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
Seems to me that awolLDSasap has NO CLUE what he/she is talking about.
Seriously, where in the world did you get your information?? From some book or website writte by an enemy of the Church?
That's kinda like going to a Ford dealer and asking them to tell you about a Chevy, then making your decision based on a biased point of view! I mean really....
M424Filmcast 2 years ago 2
Dr. Quinn's overall thesis is that Joseph Smith and other early Latter-day Saint leaders were fundamentally influenced by occult and magical thought, books, and practices in the founding of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This is unmitigated nonsense. Yet the fact that Quinn could not discover a single primary source written by Latter-day Saints that makes any positive statement about magic is hardly dissuasive to a historian of Quinn's inventive capacity.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
However, there is no evidence that Joseph and others considered these things to be "magic," or the "occult," nor did they consider "magic" or the "occult" to be positive things.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
A review of handwriting styles in the Bookofmormon has shown that Sidney Rigdon wrote most of it with Oliver Cowdry coming in second.
awolLDSasap 2 years ago
LOL untrue biased, pathetic lies.
thanks for the laugh awol.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
Give me your insight on how Sidneys writing style through exact words could overwhelm the Bookofmormon.
awolLDSasap 2 years ago
@TrueSaintsLDS I would recommend that readers go read Michael Quinn's books for themselves, rather than believing TrueSaintsLDS's comments here. Quinn backs up everything with documented evidence. Quinn is not attacking the Church, but sharing details about the origin that most people are not aware of. His first edition of this book came out when he was the head of the History Department at BYU. He was not fired for its publication or disciplined by the church for it.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
@Prop8
LDS would recommend you repent and quit living in sin.
Michael Quinn just passed away and it says he was an professor in California. He died a Catholic, and so I just wonder just what you think he says that is so important, bud.
Again make the choice to return to the Lord and His church.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
Changing the topic when you're losing the argument is a classical fallacy. Quinn's book was published when he was an active LDS professor at BYU, and he backed up everything he said with documented evidence. Make the choice to learn more about Church history, instead of ad hominem attacks to redirect attention from the problems you're sidestepping.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
what book are you referring to. I was looking up on wikipedia, and found no publication. Maybe the book didn't go far? Maybe it never made a best seller? And Maybe it is an attack on the church of JESUS CHRIST. I really don't know what book YOU are talking about.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
Are you serious? Read the thread before you start commenting. Quinn's book on Early Mormonism and the Magic World View is well known among scholars of LDS History. If you're never heard of it, you need to read it before you comment on things you know nothing about. Stop speculating about what he does or doesn't say, and read it for yourself, instead of spouting off nonsense that is completely uninformed.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
Please share with us where you got the information that Michael Quinn passed away.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
I was looking on Wikipedia. and the Michael Quinn mentioned died at 86 this year. perhaps a different Michael.
I would be thrilled were Quinn
a Mormon apologist, but he is not. Taken as a whole, his recent work constitutes, and is widely interpreted as instance, refers to D. Michael Quinn who evidently believes little of Mormonism.
--John L. Smith, Those Who Write on Mormonism" (ie. Michael Quinn)
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
Stop for a moment and look at yourself: 1) you showed everyone here you know nothing of Quinn's books from first-hand experience, and have nothing to contribute, 2) you claimed Quinn had passed away, when in fact he's alive, 3) you don't address the issue at hand but engage in personal attacks in order to redirect the discussion.
Let me be really clear: it's nice you want to defend the Church. Nobody faults you for that. But you're doing a really bad job.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
Quinn argues that Mormons now reject the magic practices they once embraced.
Well Mr. Prop8, Now I know what you are talking about. A complete wash! FAIRLDSdotORG has long since disproved your garbage author, OH and I do put the emphasis on the term GARBAGE. Anything else before I move on?
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
You're kidding me, right? You barely discovered who Quinn is today, you run to FairLDSorg to read as much as you can, and suddenly you're an expert. LOL. You don't have the foggiest clue, do you? Perhaps you'd like to express a specific issue, something a bit more finely nuanced, rather than talking like an 8th grader with your infantile "garbage" comments. No credibility.
If you want to defend the LDS faith, good for you. But try being a good example of your faith, and not a dweeb.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
If you want to defend the LDS faith, you need to be credible. Credible means supporting your statements with facts and references, not simply offering up your knee-jerk opinion. And above all else, get your facts straight before you open your yap. You're treating me like some anti-Mormon, when you yourself are making demonstrably false statements (Michael Quinn dead? Yeah, right). You're out of your league, son. Take your ball and go play somewhere else.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
Funny well on Wikipedia, your silly Quinn didn't even make it. The only one that REMOTELY resembled your silly Quinn is declared dead at 86. ]
The only quacks like you and the Tanners have in common are your shill parrot anti-mormon ways, and just because the foundation you never had is built upon the foundation of sand.
Did I say I had a ball? I hope you know I won't be going away so easily you proverbial dooshbag!
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
@LDSapologist71
FYI: you can easily find Michael Quinn's wikipedia page by searching the site for "D. Michael Quinn." He's in his mid-60s and very much alive.
PS: "dooshbag" is spelled "douchebag"
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
Prop8.: Quinn leans to his particular bias, as we all do. I read one of his book, & a tract that response to the Tanners, so they allege. Quinn, in my thinking, is like Stan Larsen & the Sun Stone crowd, & Dan Vogel types, they get themselves in trouble with main stream LDS by challenging LDS with different anti-LDS leanings under the guise of claiming to believe. If memory serve me correct, they were "purged" from the church during the "intellectual purges" of the 1990s or so.
RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS 2 years ago
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not including all of Sun Stoners as having been purged, for many haven't, as far as I know. Also, some of my friends go to the meetings, as I have. Sun Stone & Mormon Miscellaneous forums & radios shows, give LDS & critics a chance to talk about different issues. As for the gay rights issue, I'm for traditional family. If Gods wanted it other way, then he & she would have made gays able to have kids in their acts, but they can't. However, I wish no ill on anyone.
RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS 2 years ago
While same-sex marriage and gay rights is not what I was trying to discuss here, I think it's valuable to remember that many heterosexual couples are not capable of having children. If the criteria for such relationships is "to have kids in their acts," then we should only permit fertile, non-birth control practicing couples to marry. Fair enough? But marriage is so much more than that (emotional well-being, visitation rights, taxation, etc). Church and State really should be separate.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
Perhaps we should just give you, your own island, that way we wouldn't have to be subjected by your views on homosexuality. Your desire to make it appear "OK" to society, though gaining some momentum, still doesn't make it right, and the church message that was received in church was: "the day that your kind of living becomes ok with society, then speedily will the LORD be rebuking us." Therefore there is absolutely no way we could stand back and just be idle.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
@LDSapologist71
History repeats itself. Your comments reflect the way Americans and the American government felt about Mormon polygamy back in the 1800s.
The oppressed of one generation becomes the oppressor of another.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
You're correct: Michael Quinn was one of the "September Six" who was excommunicated in Sept 1993 for his research (he left BYU in 1988). But it's important to remember that his research under discussion here was published in 1987, while he was the head of the history department at BYU. He was never censured for that research, but for subsequent research. For me personally, I think people should judge his work by its merits, and not by assassinating his character.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
Quinn is spiritually dead and has been for years.
As LDS we care more about the spiritual side.
omiolo 2 years ago
Doesn't the scripture say "Judge not that ye be not judged"? You seem to know a lot about Quinn's internal spiritual life for someone who doesn't actually know him. If you, as LDS, care about the "spiritual side," then practice your religion and stop judging others in this manner.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
I am sorry you are less educated. Your position typically leads to much spiritual confusion on your part. In fact, as help, here is what the scriptures say about judging the wicked.
Moroni 7:15
"For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night. "
omiolo 2 years ago
Before you accuse someone of being less educated, you should make sure you can support your conclusions.
Case in point: you have taken Moroni 7:15 OUT OF CONTEXT. That scripture does NOT support judging PEOPLE, their hearts or their motives. The scripture is about judging TRUTH from ERROR. But it is NOT a scripture that gives you permission to judge other people, their hearts, their motives.
Spiritual confusion arises from misinterpreting the scriptures in the way you just showed.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago 2
maybe you should reread the scripture. When one becomes spiritually DARK, one does NOT know the difference between good and evil and how to judge them. I would suggest you REPENT!
Best of luck with that....
omiolo 2 years ago
Really, Omiolo, go back and read the entire chapter and put it into context. NOWHERE does that scripture justify JUDGING SOMEONE'S CHARACTER. You are misinterpreting the text. Period. You clearly don't understand LDS doctrine. Go back to Sunday School, learn your religion, don't take scriptures out of context, and practice what you preach. If you are using this MISINTERPRETATION to justify judging other people, then YOU SERIOUSLY need to REPENT. Work on yourself before preaching to others
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
try NOT to make judging good from evil complicated. It really is NOT. You can pretend that you should NOT judge good from evil and I will continue to judge good from evil.
When your spiritual tuning becomes corrupt, it is TYPICAL that you do NOT want to distinguish good from evil. You try and make evil good.
I don't think that is a spiritual healthy position to be in! No matter how you TWIST the Holy Scriptures!
omiolo 2 years ago
Dude, you really are mentally challenged, aren't you. Discerning truth from error (which is what Moroni 7 is talking about) is DIFFERENT from judging another person's heart and character. YOU have taken the scripture out of context and twisted it to your own purposes. You can accuse me all you like, but you're patently wrong on this one because you are altering LDS doctrine. If you don't realize what you're doing, you need to go back to seminary and figure it out.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
@Prop8Commentary
so in your world, mentally challenged people are the ones that do NOT need to SPIN or twist things??
Then yes, I am mentally challenged, especially compared to you....
omiolo 2 years ago
You completely don't get it, do you?
You used Moroni 7 to justify the act of judging other peoples' character. But that scripture is not talking about judging other peoples' character. That's not MY twisting of the scriptures at all. It's YOUR misinterpretation of the scripture. Period. End of discussion.
If you don't understand how and why your ripped that scripture out of context, then that's your problem, not mine.
But you're misrepresenting the LDS church with your false doctrine
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
The Church has lots of good things going for it, despite its problems. But people like you are the ones who give the church a bad name.
You judge other people unrighteously, and then you try to justify your behavior by taking scriptures out of context and misapplying them.
You're making yourself look foolish with your antics, and the more you talk, the deeper you dig the hole you're in.
Just let it go.... find some other way to waste your time than being a bad example of Mormonism.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
@Prop8Commentary
actually, I read the scriptures and listen to the Spirit so I know how to judge. I would suggest you do that too.
I would START the repentance process first though.
omiolo 2 years ago
You read the scriptures, but you clearly didn't understand them.
Again, the point is this: You took Moroni 7 out of context. You used your misinterpretation to engage in unrighteous judgement. So yes, you "know how to judge," but unrighteously so. It's called hypocrisy. Look it up.
Cast out the beam in your own eye before trying to take the mote out of anyone else's. Sound familiar?
Let it go, Omiolo the Zoramite.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago
I actually enjoy reading your comments. I keep wondering how long you will stick to your guns about **good and evil** not including all types of **good and evil**?
Then to think, you are the one that gets to decided which evil is really good......
omiolo 2 years ago
You really don't understand, do you.
I've been trying to use small words and clear logic, but you still don't grasp it.
Once more: Moroni 7 does NOT teach people how to JUDGE other peoples' Character.
Moroni 7 teaches how to discern true teachings of Christ from false teachings of Christ. It's about judging TEACHINGS. Not judging PEOPLE.
Sinking in yet?
Using Moroni 7 to justify your practice of judging other peoples' character is twisting the scriptures out of context.
Prop8Commentary 2 years ago