A little "Thank you", to Pres. Obama, would be nice...

[tomthefunky]

And can I ask you a question? How on earth do you liberals come to the conclusion that waterboarding known terrorists at Gitmo is wrong, but Obama launching shitloads of predator drones at SUSPECTED terrorists is somehow O.K.? And surely those drones are going to hit innocents. Doesn't that make Obama a war criminal? Where's the outrage on the left?

[TheFaithCheck]

Great vid. I know a few people who obsess over trashing pres Obama. To them it doesn't matter what he does - he will always be an anti-american, muslim, communist, atheist imposter. So weird!

[RaggedM88]

I actually tend to agree with "just happened to be in office" comment. Commander in Chief title does not carry as much weight as it sounds. Its supposed to be an almost a symbolic title according to Jefferson. Not like presidents know anything about search and destroy missions. they are dependent upon their advisers to make decisions. From examples of similar cases you listed it seems that all of the reactions were unjustified in assigning of blame and credit.

[ProportionalResponse]

@RaggedM88 How much it carries today,and what Jefferson's opinion was on the position, are two different conversations. Advisers advise, that is thier job. The president decides. justified or not justified, that is what happened. No argument says this would be different. How can you say the position doesn't carry weight? That is close to crazy talk, sir. He gives a go, and 2 teams of the best trained special forces start killing people. Not to mention the nuclear football.

[RaggedM88]

@ProportionalResponse like you said, if the mission was unsuccessful Obama would be blamed. would it really be his fault then? of course not. it could have been incompetence of someone carrying out or planning the mission or simply something that could not have been foreseen. advisers present Obama with a possibly of capture and explain to him that chances of success are good and present some data. he is compelled to sign off on it. all in all, he plays a very small part in the process.

[ProportionalResponse]

@RaggedM88 But there is where I don't agree. The chances could be good or bad or dead even. So far, it looks like it was a 50/50. (Still early)  But the President is the one that makes the call. He is making the call to put lives on the line to get one man. I guess I just don't take it lightly, or don't agree with you that it's a small thing. Better understanding is needed for missions that go wrong adn right, I'll agree with you there. I just see this as where the president's role...

[ProportionalResponse]

@ProportionalResponse ... should be reduced to nothing, as outlined in the original post. 

[ProportionalResponse]

@ProportionalResponse OH! One more. Depending on the President, they can know little or a lot about S&R or S&D missions. Eisenhower would know more than Clinton on day one. However they do learn through missions and advisors. They depend on advisors to learn, and through that advice, they make decisions. I wouldn't agree with the general statement "Not like presidents know anything ..." Some know little on day 1, but they have to learn quick, and are held responsible for their decisions.

[RaggedM88]

@ProportionalResponse OK fair enough. I'm not giving Obama no credit at all. Credit is certainly due, just not alot IMO. Its just that any way you look at it he is a politician and his role in this process was very small, albeit necessary, compared to the amount of work that had to be done for this success. He deserves way more credit for passing healthcare than for this. As a politicianHis real test is going to be what he does with the political momentum that this all-American success provides.

[johhnymcawsome]

Furthermore the fact that he is merely the president at this time when it happens that intelligence pertaining to Osama's location was discovered is a legitimate argument, however not in the way it was presented. If he made other decisions or put in place military or intelligence orders that lead to the discovery of his location then it would have been more significant. This problem of who gets credit for what action lies primarily in the short terms of our president leading to overlaps in ops.

[johhnymcawsome]

However, simply because in the past people have responded to an event in a certain way does not necessitate them to react in the same way in a similar circumstance. My point is that merely because people have reacted positively towards presidents for this kind of thing in the past, does not mean that people have to in this instance. Obviously you believe this is due to a misunderstanding of his involvement in it but in reality it is more likely due to a general dislike of the president.

[johhnymcawsome]

Interesting video, yet you make an assumption of how people should react to an event based on previous generations. As I'm sure you're aware the presidents approval rating went up then returned to its previous levels because of this attack and alot of people don't really seem to be giving him credit for authorizing this mission. You make the point that he would have taken heat if the mission failed and then point out historical examples of that and of people receiving praise when missions gowell

[GreatThunder1]

Hay you have a map of Israel behind you, why?

[ProportionalResponse]

@GreatThunder1 I study Israel and the middle east quite a bit.

[Vire70]

1:15

Here's one; Fuck your military. The entire lot of them signed up to be puppets and then expect sympathy for a tiny minority of them being injured/killed, whilst they relentlessly slaughter innocents as their occupation. No one in the military, regardless of country, deserves any respect whatsoever. They lost that when they signed away their rights to corrupt politicians.

[ProportionalResponse]

@Vire70 You silly.

[tomthefunky]

Obama deserves credit for killing Bin Laden? Wait, so he's against waterboarding terrorists but he's O.K. with shooting them in the head?

Giving Obama credit for killing OBL is like congratulating Nixon on the moon landing.

[SkidRowRadio]

@tomthefunky agreed.

[ProportionalResponse]

@tomthefunky Going to the moon was started 2 presidents before Nixon, under Kennedy. So giving Nixon credit for the moon landing, you are saying, is like giving Clinton credit for Obama killing bin Laden. Clinton wanted him bad, but Bush dropped the ball. Johnson, kept Kennedy's project up, and Nixon's budget didn't come into play, since Nixon was only in office a few months before we touched the moon's surface. So no, they are not the same. As to your first point...

[ProportionalResponse]

@ProportionalResponse ... are you against killing OBL, or for waterboarding? You obviously have a problem with one.  If you have a problem with the consistancy, why? For killing OBL, against waterboarding. Yep. That is a fair outline of my position. See this video, and the one I did on waterboarding for a better look at my position, and then tell my what your problem is.

[tomthefunky]

@ProportionalResponse: Your desperation is showing. Do you praise a garbage man who picks up your garbage? Do you praise a mailman for delivering your mail? No, because it's their job. It's Obama's duty as commander in chief to have people like OBL knocked off. Your just so desperate to legitimize this community-organizing-visiting-­lecturer any way you can. It's sad, really.

And it was Clinton who refused to kill OBL when we had the chance.

[ProportionalResponse]

@tomthefunky I think it is the president's job, what I'm defending is the lack of credit given for the method of the attack, and the fact that it was accomplished. Also, your view of Clinton "refusing" to kill OBL "when we had the chance" shows that you have a shallow understanding of the circumstances of that situation. It has been talked about quite a bit. You should review the details of the "not-really-an-opportunity" incident you are refering. Clinton was semi obsesed with (cont)

[ProportionalResponse]

@ProportionalResponse getting OBL, according to people like Richard Clarke, one of the few men retained by and served under Clinton and Bush. "Against All Enimies" is a book by him that outlines it quite well.

[tomthefunky]

@ProportionalResponse Although Clinton made the criminal justice system his counterterrorism strategy, not one indictment was filed after the bombings of Khobar Towers and The USS Cole. Janet Reno said "Retaliation might violate international laws therefore I'm against it". Jihadists attacked us year after year under Bubba starting in his first month in office! Only in 1998 did he lob a few bombs in the general direction of Saddam and OBL. And that was on the day of his impeachment. Coincidence?

[SiriusMined]

@TheElMoIsEviL

Just because you don't like the government of SA, that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

And I'm well aware of what Bin Laden said about the US prescence in SA. That doesn't make his belief legitimate. But of course, you've demonstrated a complete lack of ability to be objective when the USA is involved.

[MonotonePeanut]

5:46 Senator William Fulbright informed Kennedy of his disapproval of the impending invasion of Cuba using exiles. Kennedy, after the bay of pigs, later regretted not listening to his advice. ~minor correction~

[ProportionalResponse]

@MonotonePeanut Agreed. I pass the statue of Fulbright everyday as I'm going into "Old Main", the building here on campus that is the home of the Fulbright College of Arts and Sciences. In fact, one of my Prof’s was Fulbright’s Public Relations guy. Fulbright is the reason I'm still in school- required advanced 2nd language requirements. What I meant was that the people on Kennedy's senior staff (Poli Advisers, C.O.S. etc…) didn’t speak up against it. Sorry if I flubbed that.

[ProportionalResponse]

@TheElMoIsEviL Our opinions don't match. We are talking about them. That is not a pwn. Pwn is the most over used word on the internet, it really means nothing, which is why I've said time and time again that I don't "pwn" people. I debate, or exchange ideas, but pwn? That is a made up word for people who wantt o make themselves feel better about their argument.  There is too much to reply in this thread. Care to move to video responses? We can keep it in here, but we'll be limited. cont..

[ProportionalResponse]

@ProportionalResponse If you want to move to video responses, then please feel free to take the first turn. You can take your points and elaborate on them as you see fit. If you would rather keep it here, let me know. VR is better, because this is a topic we both can expand on, without character limits. Let me know.

[applefrog111]

@TheElMoIsEviL

Dude your kidding, right? Invaded. That's BS. Theres a difference between attacking a nation and sending soldiers to kill a select target. As for your second point I imagine they would've wanted to capture him alive, but had to kill him (This is just speculation).

Your second part is correct, we sent weapons and supplies to the fundamentalists who opposed the Russian control, and ended up screwing over pretty much all of Afghanistan.

[88Keyz101]

You know what I find the most ironic about statements like that? They are saying Obama is just the guy in office when something good happened, but I bet you $1,000,000 that the very same people posting that comment will in turn blame the president for the country's current economy & health care system. Isnt it ironic?

[ProportionalResponse]

@88Keyz101 Just extreme partisan =( I mean I can find SOMETHING about any member of congress I like. You can't blame someone for everything.

[ReligiousJezta]

Oh how I remember that comment. I got unfriended by a few people when I DARED to refudiate. :(

[ProportionalResponse]

@ReligiousJezta Send them this video.

[MrStillmans]

Just some grammar advice: "It was him who..." should be "It was he who..."

[ProportionalResponse]

@MrStillmans You are right. I heard that in editing, and I thought old GrapplingIgnorance would be the 1st to point it out. By the time I edited it, the light had changed so much, that it wasn't worth it to go back to reshoot it. Otherwise everyone would have noticed it, and taken away from the flow.

[Houshalter]

So thank you Obama, for putting some minimum effort into ordering the assasination of some terrorist figurehead whose been mostly irrelevant for a decade.

[ProportionalResponse]

@Houshalter Are you saying that if a person is in a leadership position, is key in killing 3,000, then someone else takes over, or he then wanders off the radar, that we should take a "forgive and forget" attitude? That logic doesn't apply when we're talking about 1 murder, why would it apply to 3,000? If I kill someone when I'm 20, 30, 40, 50 and 60, should the police not look for me because I spaced those murders out, and became irrelevant for the decades between?

[Houshalter]

@ProportionalResponse The US has commited much worse attrocities and no one cared, no one was punished, etc. Besides, we don't just assasinate people that commit 1 murder, we supposedly give them a fair trial.

There are much better places that those resources could have been spent other than trying to score some political victory.

[yourfullofsheite]

The repubs called Obama naive for thinking you could do this without permission from Pakistan.That was before got into office.On this one,Obama comes out looking like Shaft.

[verodefacto]

See you don't understand ...how can Obama take credit for bringing us back from the brink of economic collapse, or passing the most sweeping health care reform since ever and finding and killing osama bin laden? A socialist , muslim, foreign, negro could never come up with such a plan! Greg you should be ashamed!

[Shelhabiron]

@verodefacto Not only socialist and muslim. Don't forget Nazi-Stalinist -Liberal Commie

[Tumoxa89]

@Shelhabiron U are stupid as my knee.

[Mglosk]

@Shelhabiron Talk out of your ass much?

[Kwrtet4Life]

For those who don't value evidence, no amount of evidence will convince them.

[racrguy]

I didn't think you owned a razor. I almost didn't recognize you lol

[omnimetabell]

You're a monster, PR. Great Vid.

[GrapplingIgnorance]

This video was cool. It looks like Greg just shaved, so I got to watch his facial hair grow as the video recorded. Sweet.

[ProportionalResponse]

@GrapplingIgnorance You are just jealous, cause you can't grow facial hair.

[GrapplingIgnorance]

@ProportionalResponse No face = no facial hair. That's a low blow, you ruggedly handsome bastard.

[omnimetabell]

@TheElMoIsEviL . Dude, Whatever.

[sstan1337]

And knowing is half the battel........ G.I.JOOOOOOOOOOE!!!!

[djasonwright]

I can't give this enough thumbs up.

[d34d23]

I posted this on my facebook wall :)

[ProportionalResponse]

@d34d23 Cool deal =) I feel proud when people do that to my videos.

[jblev2]

A little shut the fuck up from phoney technological promoting, fake hard closet Christians would be better

[Tocxica]

Can I just say I love you? Lol. As an active duty family- my husband, myself, and the single guys in my husbands company who try to eat us out of house and home- we have absolutely no problem giving at least a little credit to Obama. He is our commander in chief. People need to stop being so butthurt about giving him a bit of praise.

[MsReefmaster]

this video was impressive and not what i was expecting, very detailed and intelligent response. i hope you do both right and left critisims.

[ProportionalResponse]

@MsReefmaster There is plenty on both sides to say. There are topics which make me mad about Dems and Pres. Obama. I'm sure one of those will come up before too much longer.

[afterhumanity333]

The fact anyone debates that Obama gave the executive order to send men in to kill Bin Laden, shouldn't even have any doubt. I'm sorry but Obama, his Cabinet and the soldiers involved deserve credit for finding and eliminating the mass murderer of New Yorkers and many others around the world.

So we owe Obama our thanks for making the tough choices, and for doing his job well.

There is no debate, there is no speculation, right wingers are just butt hurt their president didn't make the order.

[gilless429]

I liked the Samuel Becket reference/quote at the end. It also reminded me of a scene in Criminal Minds where one of the agents cites Becket : "Try again, fail again, fail better", and another one answered : "Try not. Do, or do not." Yoda.

[gilless429]

Yeah, those shots were impressive. I knew a guy when I served who could have made that shot, but that in all my years of service I only met such a person once shows how incredible the Navy Seals training is. All of that aside, great video.

[CobraJones]

Air Force? Psh...Chair Force, maybe :oþ

[ProportionalResponse]

@CobraJones SHUT YOUR FACE JONES! I LIKED MY CHAIR!!

[donnyforte2]

The funny thing about Iran waiting just 20 minutes after Reagan took office to send the hostages off... is that Reagan started the "War on Terror" (that Bush Jr. eventually restarted). That was the dumbest thing Iran has done in the past 50 years.

[AmishRakeFight85]

PR, have you read any of Glen Greenwald's columns on the killing of OBL? If so I'd be interested to hear your take on them. If not I highly recommend that you read them. Cheers.

[dtm52]

Nice Job, PR.

[TrueScar]

What a great explanation on why Obama deserves credit. I've been trying to explain it to a lot of people on Facebook. I'm not Obama's biggest fan, but for fuck's sake, when he does something right, he does it right. Giving him SOME credit wouldn't kill you.

[Orygyn]

Why do I get the feeling that this same guy would be spamming about how "Obama was directly responsible for the death of US soldiers" if there had been mines?

[SiriusMined]

The funny thing is that the people saying that Obama "just happned to be president" at the time, would have given FULL credit to GWB had Osama been killed then.

[SiriusMined]

@TheElMoIsEviL "invaded sovereign nations (Saudi Arabia"

Excuse me, but we were INVITED to Saudia Arabia by its government.

[emperorkang]

basically, the clueless think that:

something Obama does good= Republicans take all the credit

something Obama does wrong= Democrats get all the credit

the Tea Baggers especially think that the President is the second coming of the Anti-Christ or something... -_-

[geodgereturns]

Excellent

[bryantulsa]

A detailed, thorough, well-reasoned response. Nicely done.

[Gettinghitonattheban]

With a simpler tactic that was suggested to Bush when Osama was in Afghanistan mind you, which would have saved the US billions.

[JustABitchyCancer]

well the whole thing doesn't sit well with me but the worst i think is when the credit is handed to bush. and when people talk about how if it weren't for torture , etc it wouldn't have happened. that's the worst.

[IntelligentProbe]

I think the real issue here is Obama is black and democrat. This exempts him from being able to do anything good in the eyes of many.

[MartianStories]

Thank you for your service, Proportional Response. Great video.

Oh, and thanks for being in the Air Force and doing your military job and all, too.

Wish the thick heads would stop being such partisans, remember what the Founders said about partisanship, and see Obama for what he actually is: a truly great, wise, intelligent, and STRONG leader. We have had so few of them lately that the other side of the isle stays locked in "Full Idiot Mode."

You reason very clearly and objectively. Subbed.

[MrCadfael]

don't see enough quotes from Beckett. hurrahs to you for that. oh, and good video, too.

[SeriousPsyche]

The people who propagated the current version of Middle Eastern turmoil never wanted Bin Laden found because then the debate about whether or not we should be further involved in those countries would happen, and at the very least until he was found, there was proper justification (albeit retarded to anyone even half informed) for Afghan occupation. By the way, the Pakistan intelligence soooooo knew he was there.

[ONESPECIES]

I can understand you defending the position of Obama, and it is reasonable. However, thanking Obama as the title implies, is a bit too much for me. He has a lot more work to do to earn thanks. After his political career is over he will probably work for a corporation for millions per year, using his previous connections to earn contracts and prestige for a Corp.Thats enough thanks. A lot of people could do a better job than Obama,and they would not expect any thanks. Tax the Corporations anyone?

[BoozyBeggar]

@ONESPECIES Just because someone does thousands of things you don't like doesn't mean you shouldn't thank them for doing one thing you agree with.

[ONESPECIES]

@BoozyBeggar Well cal me an evil scum, but I do not see why Politicians need thanking. Much more people with far tougher jobs have been left unemployed thanklessly because the casino side of Banking went on a financial rampage. And I do not even agree with the killing of Laden as it happened. Given the later released details, its obvious that if Obama had ordered so, it would be possible to capture him instead. And would I thank a creationist just because we agree the Earth is not Flat?

[PostSurgeOperative]

Hail to the Commander-in-Chief!

[gothatfunk]

i've read that GHWBush, as candidate for VP in 1980, made the deal with the Iranians NOT to release the hostages until *after* the election in november, when apparently the deal for release had been struck some 2 months earlier. that was a long time ago, i wish i could remember where i read that. i have no idea

[lanceknightmare]

Something else I've heard of on Facebook. People were posting links to fake sights. Which claimed to have pictures of Osama BinLaden's dead body. DO NOT click on them. They are websites dedicated to password phishing and viruses.

[christinepeace]

love your brain it is so sexy.

Cheers Christine from Denmark

[TheTruePooka]

Excellent play by play on these situations. My recollection is that Republicans, their supporters & Regan took 100% credit for the Iran hostage releases.

The only thing Republican supporters will give credit to Obama for is being black (and that is more of an accusation). It is killing them that Obama was the commander in chief who took out Osama Bin Laden for... oh so many reasons.

[TheTruePooka]

I remember that comment. It was so stupid I didn't think it could be addressed in less than 15 minutes. Hey! You managed to do it in 12.39! :D

[ProportionalResponse]

@TheTruePooka I can do anything, as long as I try to be as good as you.

[Anghellik9]

inb4 "OBL died in 2002".

Also, to the people saying this was an assassination, there is nothing wrong with killing enemy combatants who do not try to surrender.

[NathanWubs]

@Anghellik9 He also died in 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010. The conspiracy theorist have been pushing all kinds of things, and now mostly they are pushing that he is not dead at all.

[JustABitchyCancer]

@NathanWubs that's the whole point...there were articles in many years that he died already. The story about him now is inconsistent. I don't remember them worrying about backlash over parading suddamn hussein around. What's the difference now?

[NathanWubs]

@JustABitchyCancer *face palms*

[ProportionalResponse]

@NathanWubs If he's not, should be easy to prove. If he makes a new video saying "on this day (insert today's date), the DOW closed at XXXXXX" Easy enough to do, if he's alive. I don't think we'll see that though. =)

[GingerAtheist]

I saw that same status and knew it was bull shit, but did not know how to research to question it. How would one do that, as a blanket rule?

[ProportionalResponse]

@GingerAtheist With the exception of a few details (how many minutes after Reagan became president did they let the plane fly, for example) I knew the stuff. But for a blanket rule, take each part of a statement separetly, and google news articles, and historoical accounts. Then put it all together to se if it all agrees. =)

[LadyTigerLily]

I remember reading about all of the historical examples you used, and one of my friends was on the ship that took down the Somalian pirates. I know what you mean about being dumbfounded. It really doesn't require THAT much research either. Good video. :)

[DackIsBack]

Thanks for what? Not being Bush?

[elephant37020]

The only problem with this video is that your using the wrong logic to refute the statement. The logic they use to make the first statement is that all good things come from Republicans and all bad things come from Democrats. Killing UBL is good therefore it comes from a Republican. There's also the fact that many Republicans don't have any real beliefs but that Democrats are bad.

[abbynormal0ne]

I'm so glad you did a video on this!

[Al1981X]

I don't think it can be a coincidence that under the retard Bush fuck all happened but when someone who can read is in the Whitehouse things are actually achieved.

[312haku]

this is silly i mean obama is the commander and chief of the armed forces so of course he is like directly responsible for what those seals did notihng they do is ever done without his say so this is so dumb of them

[312haku]

lol your a former airsmen? awesome me too only did 3 years though

[Romie82o]

Well stated, great video. 

[ProportionalResponse]

@TheElMoIsEviL 1) He killed a terrorist. One that was responsible for killing many. 2) Pakistan has let us run missiles for years, still an ally. 3) He hasn't bragged. 4) Your points about blowback for the US doing as they wanted in the past hold some validity, but I don't agree in this particular case, or cases where terrorists are killed. Pakistan understands. When they don't, it's politics being local, for the most part.

[TrooperCX]

@ProportionalResponse thanks for pwning that guy

[WineisyourFriend]

I was hoping you'd do a vid on this. Good stuff. I wish more people were interested enough in the truth to bypass political cheap shots. Looks like it's up to you...yes you...to save the planet. Make sure you drink your Ovaltine.

[MrTruthAddict]

It's great to hear details on this stuff from a fellow poli sci major. The Jessica Lynch debacle was an instance of total propaganda management. It was all staged and controlled, much like the Pat Tillman aftermath was. Bushco made sure no one knew the Tillman family were atheists and that friendly fire was what caused his death. Goerring would have been proud. : )

[MrTruthAddict]

Great vid. People forget that Bush called off the troops when they had Osama cornered in Tora Bora. He said many times "I'm not worried about him. He's not a priority" etc.

Obama started a focused campaign to get Bin Laden as soon as he got in. This should have been done right after 9-11 but Bush saw the ability to manipulate the masses by using the specter of OBL.

Now we are debt slaves to communist China to the tune of 1.5 trillion dollars. Not to mention the habeas corpus issue.

[ProportionalResponse]

@MrTruthAddict Tora Bora was truely a missed opportunity. I also bet Pres. Clinton and others, like Richard Clarke hit the ROOF after Pres. Bush said he wasn't looking for/not concerned with OBL.

[PlasteredDragon]

@ProportionalResponse No fan of Bush, but I've wondered if he was advised to say Osama wasn't a priority in an attempt to misinform Al Qaeda and perhaps make Osama be more bold about appearing in public. Sometimes leaders have to say things for tactical reasons.

[ProportionalResponse]

@PlasteredDragon I have wondered that too. If that is the case, it was a gamble on his part, to say that to increse the odds of finding him.  If the odds were better, and he DID capture/kill him, he wins. If not, he ends up looking like he has his priorities out of wack. He made those comments in March 2002, so that would lend weight to the possible tactical angle. Either way, he either didn't care, or lost that gamble.

[etowngftddummy]

Hey ProportionalResponse, I'm having trouble finding info about the 3 shots that you were so excited about. I'm curious, and I'm not sure the links you posted had them? And google searches are just giving me stuff about 3 of her rescuers being dead. Help, please? Thanks!

[ProportionalResponse]

@etowngftddummy the 3 shots were in the Somali Pirate story. =)

[fruitikay]

Ugh....I don't much care for Obama...but that facebook status is freaking retarded. Of course Obama has done some cool stuff, and he should be credited for that...but Bush did some cool stuff too, and that doesn't make him a Jesus. lol. But yes, Obama made the decision...but I still don't much care for Obama. Now, whenever I say that, I have to put a huge disclaimer about me not being a conservative/rightwinger. lol. Good vid, though PR. Every time I listen, I learn something new. . XD

[Dudeamis]

AIR POWER! lol

[lautz73]

It sounds to me like it was FIRST (as in I'm first to comment) done by Obama haters and picked up by other Obama haters and those that just didn't know any better.

[terraspent]

thanks for the funny apt man



[vesman81]

Thank you...