Hartmann: Blood Sucking Leeches vs Single Payer

[thereinliestherib]

I love how this guy just keeps stuttering over his teleprompter. It shows how this is all just a bunch of propaganda made by gullible wealthy people with access and a completely unearned sense of superiority in their political beliefs.

[Bruce1949919]

When our Government can run the Post Office I might consider it.

[Bruce1949919]

@shawniemar You mean the ones who hired your sorry ass.?? That's fine.

[thereinliestherib]

And yep, the reason the rest of the world has adopted single payer is because their citizens take responsibility for their health in the first place. They also heavily tax the poor choices/behaviors that directly contribute to high HC costs (smoking, obesity, etc).

My gawd the left is totally ignorant on healthcare. And so is the right. And we are therefore screwed.

[Bruce1949919]

@thereinliestherib We have the best Health Care in the world. And it's worked pretty good until Mr. Socialist got involved. After it is rescinded the Country will be well finally again.

s

[thereinliestherib]

What a load of crap--socialized care in this country is a wolf in sheep's clothing. It's for-profit socialism, make no mistake. The biggest reason for high american healthcare costs has nothing to do with the system--its high pool risk because of the disgustingly poor health of the average American.

We spend a 1/6th of all HC spending on obesity alone, and only for its direct ailments. Do the math you morons. Reduce costs = force Americans to take responsibility for their health.

[SimpleLivingSanity]

@thereinliestherib Stop subsidizing oil, so people bike and actively walk places more. Stop subsidizing high fructose corn syrup, junk foods, and corn so that the poor find this to be the affordable option... calories... fat, and no health. Our country partly contributes to the health issues. We don't even put more than 2-5% of transportation finds into cycling... just the occasional white striped bike lane. If one travels the better practiced designs of W. Europe, they will see Y they are thin

[thereinliestherib]

@SimpleLivingSanity In other words, stop subsidizing oil so the whole naitonal economy tanks. Got it. I ride every day by the way--but I don't buy into any of that illogical greenie crap. Building bike lanes is OUR responsibility as bikers. People shouldn't be forced to accomodate us any more than segwayers, longboarders, or friggin crabwalkers.

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

Every other industrialized nation has a national health care plan for all it's citizens... Are they all wrong and were the only ones right in the entire world ? Most Americans are in poor health because they don't have preventive care and diseases are left untreated until it's and emergency.... To use obesity as the reason our system is bad it a ridiculous argument... Our system is bad because it's bad... The rest of the industrialized world say's so

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights Funky flights I've proven your garbage wrong more times than I can even remember. Preventive care has nothing to do with obesity in the US; PC is just code for more money and regulation for the industry itself, no differently than a mechanic telling you to bring your car in for PC every week. Its BS.  No amount of preventive care can help people from the obvious, and KNOWN outcome of their actions. People know the consequences of their poor health choices.

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

Dude your the one that pushes BS.... You cannot compare a car's mechanic problems to a human being with flesh and blood... Preventive care is HUGE when it's comes to your health... Just like eating right and exercising... BOTH are important... Your fail to realize that illness can still find anyone regardless ... YOUR brain can't wrap around that.... We all know taking care of yourself is important but it still doesn't change the fact our system SUCKS!!

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights And that wasn't the comarison I was making, but I'm not surprised you missed the distinction. I was comparing the fundamental market principles of any insurance system. Our system sucks (costs a lot) predominantly because of unhealthy people (probably like yourself, by the stats) who have driven up pool risk to unaffordable extremes. Your solution is nothing more than more of the problem: more regulation, less personal responsibility.

[brickster3072]

I have a really hard time forgetting that "Russian Television" or RT for short, is the fully financed propaganda arm of the Russian Government. Not that I have any reason to distrust Putin.

[TheGuidoCongetti]

Ron Paul 2012 !!!!

[pluto4847]

Lets all become mini business men. Lets go back in the streets, become popcorn and hot dog vendors.

[Bruce1949919]

This will not create jobs unless you mean Ambulance drivers for people with splinters in their hands.

[Bruce1949919]

With the possibility that Obama Care MIGHT become the real law remember what will happen. If you are currently in a group or have your own insurance it will increase in price by almost 20 to 25 percent. Because you will be paying for poor people and the sick people who cannot get coverage. Insurance companies will not take a loss just because Obama says so. So good luck and shut up.

[pluto4847]

@Bruce1949919

But it was Mitt Romney who originated a bill similar to Obamacare. Can you really trust Romney?

[Bruce1949919]

@pluto4847 It was for the State of Mass not the United States. Costs have gone up considerably there. Romney has not intention of introducing a system like that nor did he at the time, to the United States.

[Bruce1949919]

@pluto4847 I don't trust socialized healthcare

[pluto4847]

@Bruce1949919

Single payer does not have to be Government run. If enough people get together, they can share costs by the private means.

[funkyflights]

@pluto4847

True... It is possible to start a private single payer non profit pool.. flat rate cost that's the same for all Americans... Problem is oversight and making sure it's protected by law... Insurance companies would be doing EVERYTHING in there power to prevent it from happening though... That means buying off politicians to stop it ...

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights "flat rate cost that's the same for all Americans..." Which is exactly what's wrong with American healthcare--not charging according to personal risk (as with ANY other form of insurance) systematically removes the disencentivizes good health and accountable behavior. It's hilarious how you don't see this, when the increase in socialization directly coincides with the decline of personal health in America; or similarly, the correlation between obesity and costs...

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

Dude this is where your lost... They are NOT CHARGING THE SAME FLAT RATE .... Insurance companies charge whatever they want with no solid oversight... Hell there raising there rates at alarming levels ... And it's amazing YOU DON"T see that charging more for sick people the very people who NEED the care is a twisted system anyway you slice it... Again your fighting the rest of the world on this, who eliminated our very system because of what your saying..

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights Oh my god, you're such a lost cause of a socialist. If companies could charge whatever they wanted, as you explicitly claim, their success would be unlimited. You know so little about business and economics you honestly sound crazy--especially given the fact that you deny that HC costs are directly proportional to pool risk. I guess spending over half our annual HC $ on obesity, smoking, drugs, and the like is an insignificant side effect on your planet.

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

Your ideology on health care will lose... guaranteed the USA will end up with single payer health care in the future.. Our system is unsustainable and logic will rule over greed in time.... State by state there gonna adopt single payer simply because of cost and the lack of coverage for so many Americans from no fault of there own... don't be mad just accept it like the rest of the world has... a healthy nation is a productive nation and logic will rule.

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights Out of curiosity, do you even know who the biggest beneficiaries of Obamacare were? The industry--they get a handout of forced consumption of their product (the mandate) in addition to regulatory gerrymandering that forces the healthy to pay a disproportionately larger amount on HC for risks they don't represent. Do you know who gave the most $ to dems in 09??? The industry. You follow pigs, my friend.

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

And what you fail to realize is Obama has fooled you... The mandate means nothing if single payer is adopted state to state... How does it feel to get played by a very smart politician... read the lines... The health care bill has opened single payer at a state level if it's voted in....States will adopt single payer and when they see how much money it saves other states will follow... I don't believe in the mandate it's ridiculous nor do I support that.

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights And what exactly happens when all of the most significant sources of costs in our system (pool risk and poor national health) continue to hemorrhage and increase??? You're so ignorant it's pathetic. And you're about a third of Americans, believe it or not--you actually just admitted the policies you endorse benefit the same industry you spent all this time demonizing.

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

Here is what you don't get.... When you take the profit side out of the system which is the middle man the money goes towards actual health care and not some CEO flying his jet... Why is that so hard for you to grasp.. Single payer will control cost and not only that it will also put dam near every dollar toward actual health care.... Dude think about it HARD.. And no Single payer does not benefit insurance companies... IF it's implemented like HR676

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights Anything? Anything at all? Facts, data, supporting evidence--all you seem to be capable of doing is generating new, fictional demons to scapegoat and whine about. Yet you deny the obvious quantitative role that national health plays in healthcare costs, when that role is much larger than nearly any other factor in our system. Thanks for the entertainment.

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

The rest of the world.... LMAO... how is that for data ... Every other industrialized nation on planet earth has a national health care plan for all it's citizens... They spend less ..There are no bankruptcies do to illness... Everyone is covered... Your arguing with facts that bury you in the sand... Go ahead man look around the world and tell me what other current industrialized nation has our system of greed... THINK! Or are you and arrogant American

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights Come on fruitcup, show me specifics here. Every time your arguments require specificity, you go general; every time your arguments require generality, you go specific. Come on now, facts and data. Stop flailing. Show me comparative health stats, for one.

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

Common tooty frooty .... You can google it and easily see the amount of money the USA spends on it's failed health care system... They just approved gay marriage so stop being so bitter... 

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

Hey man I"m only joking with you about the gay stuff ..For real though we can agree to disagree... I hate our health care system ..HATE IT...It discriminates against our sick and that's not a way to run a system..The very people that need the care are the ones that get put behind and that makes no sense....A healthy nation is a productive nation and if we leave our sick behind we've failed as a nation...

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights Agreed. So its time for a fat tax...

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

Maybe just a fair tax system can fix the issue....

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights Exactly. And as HC highlights, taxing the people most responsible for the unsustainable cost overruns of public institutions. Such as irresponsible/unhealthy individuals, public unions, and the like. Anyone with any knowledge of basic math can recognize that shouting "tax the rich" is neither sufficient, nor honest about our public costs.

And yet every "fix" is merely another paving stone toward Greece...

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

50 plus million people are not overweight or irresponsible... I would happily pay more in taxes instead of paying 800 a month to some private company who takes most of the pie from the health care pot...My uncle who owns a private business was paying 1,400 dollars a month for his private health care because of his age before he got on medicare... That's 26,800 a year for his private insurance...Dude really ? He now pay's 1,200 a year on medicare...

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights Well fine--then YOU pay for YOUR beliefs. I sure as fuck shouldn't have to pay, predominantly, for the irresponsibility of others. As a consumer of free market products, I have the right ot buy only those products that I need relative to my need, and not buy those which I do not--which is why your ideology hates personal liberty. No bureaucracy can pick winners and losers; or maybe you can produce one successful example as such. You can start with Solyndra.

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights I mean I guess I should start paying for the car insurance of drunks, or the flood insurance of those who choose to live in flood plains, and so on, to infinity. Your justification extends to all such examples, so why not? Believing in any is believing in the others. Or do you want it both ways?

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

Rest of the world does it with just there health care systems NOT with there Auto Home and life or flood insurance.... So why can't we... Why can't we follow there model which saves money and lives.. Hell we buy there cars if there nice... Drink there wine if it's good... Buy there products if there better.... Why not follow there money saving health care model ?

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights I thought you'd say that. You completely skirted the point. Why not force responsible drivers to buy auto insurance for drunks? Needles for addicts? Sand bags for New Orleans? Your ideology knows no natural or economic bounds--and sooner rather than later, socialism fails when you run out of other people's money. Also, socialism in the US is for-profit, capitalist pseudo-socialism--Obamacare makes this point pretty darn obvious.

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

No I made my point...Every other modern nation has Universal health care but still keeps the other systems in place... How is that skirting the issue... Those countries don't have universal car insurance or universal flood insurance... What your missing is one is objects and the other is LIFE ITSELF....

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights Nope, you keep ignoring the stark differences in pool risk and tax structure which allow other countries to maintain socialized care. The fact that americans are so unhealthy means that the greatest harm is done to the low-risk who could otherwise afford care ("LIFE") but are driven out of the system by the unhealthy laggards that drive up everyone's costs. You're hellbent on blaming an anti-real fantasy.

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights And for what its worth, you need to see that you're point of view would be greatly enhanced if you'd just admit the role of pool risk and the need to require Americans to take fiscal responsibility for their health, as the most direct means of reducing costs and thereby increasing access. If you truly believe your own moral claims, then just get over it... as much as an A-hole as I am, even A-holes can be right (100% of the time).

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

LOL @ A hole....I am with you on taking good care of yourself... I've been a personal trainer for over a decade and I'm into sports nutrition... Yes there is no doubt you need to take care of yourself ... I"m big on that.. But I still hate our system... Always have and always will until it's changed....

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

My Uncle is now thriving without that massive insurance cost .. He's hiring more employees and he's stimulating the economy with 25,000 more dollars in his pocket a year ... Now he doesn't' have to worry about getting kicked off his plan either because Medicare is stable and doesn't jack his rates around... He was to the point of going uninsured for several years before his medicare which could a destroyed his business if he fell ill... enough is enough

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights Apparently your dad works for a health insurance company? Because nearly every company's employee costs are increasing because of Obamacare. What a joke. And hey, as long as the costs ultimately get distributed down to the private sector worker, what's not to like?

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

And let's clear something up..... YOUR IGNORANT... You seem to think America is right while the rest of the planet is wrong... travel like I have... Stop letting Fox News dominate your small mind....

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights Do you have anything quantitative or analytic to contribute? Can you factually rebut a single one of my claims, or back up your own crazy fantasies with fact??? If you're so well-traveled, then how bout you account Greece in your cosmopolitan fantasy about how systems operate according to aggregate individual motivation.

[jeAh7]

@Bruce1949919 That's right man. Only the healthy and wealthy people deserve medicine in this nation. Sick and poor people should just die.

[thereinliestherib]

@jeAh7 Our HC costs so much due to poor national health. And who do you think are the least healthy people by group? "Poor" people. I'm poor but healthy--why should I pay more for them???

[jeAh7]

@thereinliestherib Our hc costs so much because someone has to make a profit on it. Medicine is overpriced to line the pockets of insurance companies. Everyone knows this.

[thereinliestherib]

@jeAh7 Oh really? And spending over twenty percent of our annual HC spending on obesity alone--that has nothing to do with it, right? God you people are daft. The socialism you're being sold is tacitly for-profit in nearly every way, and is virtually guaranteed to increase costs by failing to contain their most significant source: exploding pool risk due to poor national health.

[jeAh7]

@thereinliestherib How many cents of every dollar spent on hc goes to administrative costs? Exactly how is a single payer system for profit?

[thereinliestherib]

@jeAh7 And how many cents of every dollar spent on GOVT HC goes to administrative costs and other overhead? You're wrongly assuming that govt overheads have advantages over private systems, which is wrong on nearly every count. Medicare, tricare, and medicaid all sit on serious fiscal problems. And yep, one of the most acute cost problems in Tricare (mil HC) is hip problems caused by obesity, believe it ot not. Your implying advantages which don't exist.

[jeAh7]

@thereinliestherib obesity is not the biggest reason the healthcare system is broken. every other country (including Australia which has obesity rates almost similar to America) that has national hc systems spend less than America on hc.

[thereinliestherib]

@jeAh7 Minor correction: no other country on the face of the planet has obesity rates near those of the US. Most other countries are able to have socialized care precisely because thye carry lower risk, because they are healthier. The annual HC cost of obesity in the US will soon hit $350 billion, or 20% of HC spending. Obesity alone. Stop peeing down my leg and telling me its raining. Only my dog gets to do that.

[dbwindhorst1]

Anyone else get a goddam Mitt Romney ad before the vid played?

[IAmTheisen]

There is no good argument against this.

[Bruce1949919]

Social Security is one thing. But to tell me I have to get specific coverage so the poor lazy ass can get all of his medical free. No Way Pal. And that's what this Marxist ass in the White House designed and the Monkees in the Congress approved when he had all the Monkee's he knew in there.

[djkenny]

@Bruce1949919 Do you feel this way about public education? About fire department? Police serving our needs? People are not lazy asses that have jobs that just so happen to not cover the costly medical insurance in this country. Workers cannot afford the insurance on their own. Not all jobs pay enough to allow $200 for basic insurance. We have abysmal wages for many folks.

[Bruce1949919]

@djkenny Education is screwed up. The Teachers Union is squeezing the States and must be controlled. They should never retire at a higher income then a hard working Factory worker.. Half the teachers are worthless. And Our true public servants, Fire and Police must be paid more and given more equipment. Teachers aren't worth that kind of money.

[SimpleLivingSanity]

@Bruce1949919 REALLY??? I will agree that the teacher's unions are not all that, there is good and bad. But OVER PAID? Hardly! My wife makes under 50k a year and busts her ass. Deals with parents, is a baby sitter, an incredible teacher, comes home after meetings after a 10hr day. She could make MUCH more with her education back ground. Teachers burn out on average within 4 yrs. Try dealing with class rooms full of 7th & 8th graders then tell me how "over paid and useless they are".

[StunnedByStupidity]

WTF? RT deleting my comments? Hmmm old habits die hard eh?

[funkyflights]

Go Vermont!!! Lead the way!!!

[Bruce1949919]

Horse Crap. Put all the Insurance companies out of business. Socialist suck.

[funkyflights]

@Bruce1949919

So do goof balls like you who agree with letting people die in the name of profit... YOU sir suck... A healthy nation is a productive nation so if we let our sick BE sick then they don't' accomplish much do they... I guess every other industrialized nation on planet is socialist because they have government run health care right ? Go clean up your Horse crap.....

[Bruce1949919]

@funkyflights Allowing all Health Insurance companies to compete across State lines will lower costs. Don't need to be told what to buy.  Happy New Year. you Hillbilly 3rd class welfare recipient.

[funkyflights]

@Bruce1949919

Once again your logic fails...  I"m actually part of the middle class... Home owner... ALL MY stuff paid for on my own buddy... Do me a favor... study about health care around the world... TRAVEL like I have... Then we can talk... Private health insurance companies have nothing to do with health care... There a middle man ... Now go study ok and learn... I forgive your ignorance...

[HabitualHobosexual]

@Bruce1949919 LoL that's bullshit

[SimpleLivingSanity]

@Bruce1949919 No. It won't. It has been proven time and time again that health care is going up and up and up. Government based health care is MUCH more efficient.

[funkyflights]

@Bruce1949919

Really... Wow man... I own all my stuff and I'm debt free ... I work hard and actually own a brand new home... There's your welfare you stupid hick... I'm also smart enough to understand health insurance companies are thieves that cost American lives... educate yourself

[thereinliestherib]

@funkyflights Educate whom? Do you even know why US HC costs so much more in proportion to every other industrialized country? It has nothing to do with the evil industry, who by the way, are the biggest beneficiaries of Obamacare. Nearly every measure in Obamacare is meant to force people into the "evil industry's" consumer pool by a reverse risk calculus--and this by way of the party that spent two years blaming the industry (who btw gave them the most 09 contributions).

[funkyflights]

@thereinliestherib

I"m not a big fan of the health care bill... BUT there is a little thing your missing in the bill..... State to state there is a provision that will allow single payer... Vermont I think is the first state adopting the law ... California came 2 votes away from moving it forward.... They bill has lots of BS... But that one thing could make it a winner

[xadam2dudex]

the system is so corrupt it is a sin that stinks to high heaven..not just health care but all across the US economic system

[lafn63]

Hey Thom, healthcare costs are bankrupting governments worldwide. Why did Obama cut hundreds of billions of dollars from Medicare? Why has he sanctioned millions of dollars in bonuses to "fat cats" in Wall Strreets bailed out corporations?

[hep48]

@lafn63 Really? Which government is being bankrupted by healthcare costs where there aren't private health care companies or no bid contacts for semi-government corporate bureaucracies? I see governments losing sovereignty to 'Western' banks. The love for the 'fat cats' is what America has been 'all about' for quit some time.

[lafn63]

Where is the picture of Michael Moore's house, or Al Gore's house? I noticed he didn’t mention the tens of billions of dollars in waste and fraud inherent in the Medicare system. No state system has been able to deliver what it promised, and Vermont will be no different. People are regularly denied care by government systems. This guy is full of the usual lies and ridiculous rhetoric of the Left. Government is the root of inefficiencies in healthcare and other industries.

[quasidenney]

@lafn63 Check out Finland and Norway. Why should money for healthcare go to buying million dollar homes? This is about people's lives! You care more about health insurance companies than American people and their health. That's fucking sad.

[Bruce1949919]

@quasidenney If you have a good drug that is effective for certain diseases why shouldn't your Company make a profit? And if you are the inventor or part of the team that devised it why shouldn't you have a million dollar house. Business is not welfare. If you can't pay for the drugs someway then you die. Very simple. So Shut up.

[quasidenney]

@Bruce1949919 There is a difference between profit and greed. And our existences should be about enriching society especially when it comes to medicine and education. There is no reason for them to not be able to make a profit and sell their medicine at a price that is accessible to everyone in society. So suck my dick.

[lafn63]

Where is the picture of Moore's house, or Al Gore's house? I noticed he didn’t mention the tens of billions of dollars in waste and fraud inherent in the Medicare system. No state system has been able to deliver what it promised, and Vermont will be no different. People are regularly denied care by government systems. This guy is full of the usual lies and ridiculous rhetoric of the Left. Government is the root of inefficiencies in healthcare and other industries.

[jlohman]

Unfortunately, not one mention of greed or political corruption, the REASON we are in such deep economic trouble. Healthcare CEOs share their gigantic salaries with the politicians that made it all happen by keeping single-payer off the table. So let's keep our eyes on the root problem, not the little fires that result.

Jack Lohman

[macman2345]

Of course single payer makes better sense. Our current system is impossible to figure out.  Go Thom and spread the word.

[hep48]

Single payer would be great, but at this point its like undertaking gastric by-pass surgery on a patient whose about to explode from AIDS. The whole ship is sinking, no need to rearrange the deck furniture. Hartmann - please learn to speak faster. We'll totally understand you. I promise we are at least 75% as smart as you

[lafn63]

@hep48 That last statement is nothing to be proud of.

[420gma]

Good show Thom!

[666sigma]

I can improve health care tomorrow.

All employers must give their employees the choice of taking their health insurance "subsidy" in cash. Most will opted out and many will simply take the cash. Competition will return.

Cap malpractice claims. Hindsight is a tool for lawyers and it should be stopped.

The cost of drugs sold in the US cannot exceed those of ANY industrialized country. This will FUCK UP the rest of the world that relies on us to subsidize their drug costs.

[skullandbadbones]

@666sigma sorry but I'm more interested in US health care in total not just costs and economic impact on support entities. We are the financial center for a large portion of the world. When all of our major compeditors have better health and vitality for less money I call that an outrage. I pay $80 per month on medical for just me and I have lousy coverage. My union has the best medical available for my industry.

[666sigma]

@skullandbadbones

I would take single payer care over our current system or Obamacare. Obamacare is the worst of both worlds IMO. Private insurance cost with public insurance service.

If the US GOVERNMENT refused to allow Big Pharma to charge whatever they want in the US for drugs while National Health Care systems in other countries mandate their drug prices, we would see a decline in cost. We need to cap/nationalize malpractice insurance.

[lafn63]

@666sigma National health systems in other countries often do NOT pay for the latest, most innovative drugs. Drug companies can only charge what the market will bear. Drug development is very risky and expensive.

Be prepared to wait much longer for care in a single payer system.

[666sigma]

@lafn63

You missed the point. The US effectively pays for all the world's pharma R&D because we are stupid. We allow the drug companies to shift their costs from the Western world and underdeveloped countries to the US. We pay, by far, the highest prices in the world for presciption drugs. Where do you think those RE-IMPORTED drugs came from? Why do Canadians pay less for US drugs than Americans?

[hep48]

@666sigma Wrong and backwards - the US drug companies are not 'shifting costs' they are 'exponentially increasing their profit margins'. Those are two related but distinct concepts in business. If you 'imagine' that the US drug companies have 'helped' anyone but their own shareholders, then I must say that the Zoloft from Merck you are on is working wonders.

[hep48]

@lafn63 Oh your'e one of those 'drugs = health ' people. 70% of efficacy is from placebo effect in US drug testing (low standards!). Drug companies charge much more than a 'market' will bear. Its called a contract. A 'market' represents countless thousands and millions of transactions between individual buyers and sellers. But instead Drug company 'prices' are not based on markets, they are 'collectively' bargained between US warships and governments in other countries being forced to buy!!

[deathundone]

@dgl1962 Don't you have the police, fire fighters and even military under a "Single Payer". You are either paid by these health insurance companies to leave comments or the system have totally mind fucked you in believing that this will take you to Soviet era. Study history and do some research, just don't in things that people you support or like say, be human.

[dgl1962]

"Single payer", What a wonderfully deceptive term that is in reality "someone else pays for what I want & need in life".

Whay not "single payer" for all of our housing?

How about "single payer" for all of our food production and distribution?

Then we will wake up in a miserable Soviet state with its 4 hour lines for bread and "free healthcare" that entails getting an aspirin after waiting for 6 months to see a doctor.

[tamsenmillerbaum]

@dgl1962 that is the way all insurance policies work. get a clue. people pay their premiums, on all insurance policies, like home owners insurance, car insurance, medical insurance. people pay the premiums and all that money goes into some kind of account, and then claims are paid from that account. If you don't like this kind of situation, then I suggest that you get rid of all of your insurance policies, because your premiums are going to pay for others accidents. get a clue.

[dgl1962]

@tamsenmillerbaum I'm not forced to carry car insurance, nor home insurance since my house is paid for.

By merely being alive in the US, we're going to have to pay to the government who will then transfer that money to an insurance company, THAT IS NOT INSURANCE, THAT IS FASCISM.

Get a clue.

[funkyflights]

@dgl1962

Yes it is.... Government working with the private sector for profit.... God help this country and the direction it's going... Fascism is a scary thing and it's happening at and alarming rate in the USA... We need to get money OUT of politics! The problem we face is how do we do that when the very people who vote for laws are the one enjoying all the perks ? It's called a revolution! Were the 99 percent!! Come together people!!

[dgl1962]

@funkyflights Fascism is scary, but the government will be the entity that puts teeth into it.

For example; it won't be CEO's from IBM, GE, VISA, Microsoft or Pizza Hut kicking in your door at night looking for marijuana, it will be government goons wearing the costumes of the state.

Just look at S1967 which allows the military to kidnap you, without charges or even a trial, throw you in jail, take you overseas to torture, kill you (it is legal now).

GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN & STILL IS THE THREAT

[funkyflights]

@dgl1962

You make a point and a valid one... so I ask you this, what is the solution ? How do we fix what is broken when the very people that vote to fix it enjoy it so much... We have to find a way to get money OUT of politics! But how ? And I agree with you about S1967 it's outrages!! And I"m telling you right now they did it because of the 99 percent standing up... THEY FEAR a revolution ... That was passed because of that NO QUESTION... Us coming together scares them allot!

[dgl1962]

@funkyflights I'm of the opinion that our situation cannot be fixed, we're on auto pilot for a nasty collapse, probably a global type government with a new currency (a much less valuable one).

I blame the people themselves, the "mob" are the ones who put these smooth-talking gameshow hosts in office for freebies & the mob wants it to keep arriving in their mailbox!

I just read yesterday that around 60% of the US gets 100% of their income from the govt (state local federal, pensions, SS,etc).

[HabitualHobosexual]

@dgl1962 ANd it's the CEO's who are paying those government goons to break down our door.

[dgl1962]

@HabitualHobosexual Name any CEO of any corporation that is paying the cops to kick down our doors for pot, cocaine, terrorism, unpaid property taxes or past due college (state loan) loans.

Corporations just want to sell you a computer, a phone, a car, a pair of jeans or a tasty pizza (and a job), but it's your government that wants to jam its hands down your pockets with the threat of jail (or a violent death) if you resist.

I'll trust a corporation any day over the fucking government goons!

[pluto4847]

@dgl1962

WEll I don't trust corporations. I trust the little man. I am not anti capitalism, I am anti corportism. Places like WAllmart monopolize small businesses, and that means people like Joann the Baker close up shop, Louie the Fishmonger can't pay his rent, Thomas the Butcher goes bankrupt. So yes, the Corporations can go to hell.

Lets be a capitalist nation, but not at the expense of greedy corporate bloddsucking us dry. You want to suceed do it yourself, don't support the big Banker

[dgl1962]

@pluto4847 I hear what your saying, but you're forgetting that Walmart was "the little man" (Sam Walton) at one time as well.

He started off as a very small hardware shop owner who did what he had every right to do, grow it.

As cold as this sounds, more people benefit by Walmart by low prices than by having many little mom & pops to pay higher prices.

Don't forget that Walmart employs many!

I understand that they aren't the highest paying jobs, but neither would the mom & pop's employees

[pluto4847]

@dgl1962

And on that topic, if you had the choice would you open a mom and pop store? And if so, where would it be, and how would you manage it to keep revenue up?

[pluto4847]

@dgl1962

Its much harder for the little man to establish himself now than it was in Sam Walton's day. It can still be achieved, bjut it has to be established in more rural areas where there are no WAllmarts or big plazas.

[pluto4847]

@dgl1962

Let me ask you a question? Do you think part of the unemployment problem have anything to do with employers not wanting to pay healthcare benefits to their employees? The only flaw I have with the current healthcare system is if you get laid off from your job, you lose your health benefits. Therefore, my solution to the matter is to have groups of people sign up to the same health plan to share costs with one another. Could this work if it was volunteer based?

[pluto4847]

@dgl1962

This is how I work it. The easiest way to keep above expenses is to just keep working. I'm no businessman, but I often have ambitions to open up my business. So this is what I'm doing now. I have one main job M-F that provides health coverage, but I must be honest with you it took the company one year before I was even offered health benefits. It was a very hard year for being uninsured, but now I am insured.

So I also work a second job as an insurance plan for my first job.

[SimpleLivingSanity]

@funkyflights I agree. I wanted single payer, not subsidizing the money hungry insurance companies. I am sure Obama did try very hard to get a full on single payer system rolling, but the lobbyists, congress, just too much in the way... too many interests. I think it is better than nothing, but I am not happy we do not have single payer. We were denied health care, no one would take us since we had prior surgeries. That should not happen. Not in a civilized society. At least this will stop.

[SimpleLivingSanity]

@tamsenmillerbaum The difference is: I don't need a car. Got rid of that. Home owner insurance? Nope, that is not a "need". Medical/ Yes, EVERYONE needs health care. Insurance does not belong in health care.

[parasitesarefunny]

Every Nation the JEW PARASITE infiltrates soon becomes a sick Nation.

Destroy the Jew Parasites.

Only liars, idiots and propagandists do not identify the JEW SICKNESS

[vmeister11]

Thom is right. However, they not the only leaches. Others include the supposedly "non-profit" orgs raising funds for this and that . Their executives get paid very , very well. The works get minimal salaries and whatever is left over goes to the charity.

[overseachininadoll]

Blood sucking leeches - Right! The other day called a cardiologist office ask for the price to see a doctor. No discoussion for cash up front it is $375 just have the doctor look at you. Wow! It's cash upfront and just have the doctor lay eyes on you.... Other Diagnostic costs, ..... you are better to stay healthy take less rest more to live a good life and when time come die. It's insaint to pay the insurance, pay the doctor, pay the drug companies.

[jopaddy81]

blood sucking leeches just like farrakhan said. Farrakhan speaks for a lot of black people but let me say something, the problems that many black people face is not that different from what many whites face.

what we need is to recognise the real problem, bureaucrats and corporations rather than pick on blacks and immigrants. They divide us using the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh so we end up blaming ourselves instead of focussing on the real problem, Corporations.

[truthout911]

Funny that Thom critizes ins comps but spreads legs open wide to defend Obamacare which was written by the ins comps. Again Thom is an Obama Whore

[SimpleLivingSanity]

@truthout911 Thom actually calls on Obama quite often. During the BP spill he said Obama needed to step up. Nationalize BP, kill them off (if corporations are people, should they not get the death penalty for killing our oceans?).

[truthout911]

@SimpleLivingSanity Thom is an Obama apologist and a lesser of two evils asshole. Calling out, HELL, Denounce.him. But Thom's legs are spread wide open for him

[rextrek]

Im sickened!

[freeadplanet]

Thom... there is no CANCER in America... America IS the cancer... you are one man talking about this... Obama tried but failed... the State has TOO much money to be stopped. Anyone that pays ANY type of health insurance is paying into a FRAUD... people are so scared they think of death that insurance companies use this fear to milk them. Death is a primal FEAR and that means they can exploit that fear of MASSIVE profits.