Rob refers to "God, Jesus and the power of the resurrection"....no, it's God, Jesus and the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit. This is what I think is missing from Rob Bell's life because Jesus said he'd send the Holy Spirit to us to guide us into all truth. The Holy Spirit brings to life God's word in our spirit to understand and apply it. Come Holy Spirit, come!
How do you hold God above Scripture? Is Rob saying that he has a clearer view of God than scripture? The Mormons believed the same thing which is why the Bible has been diminished in whenever it interferes with their teachings. Rob is doing the same thing, but the worst thing about it is his denial to be clear on what he actually believes. He doesn't take a stand for his real interpretation because he knows he'll lose the evangelical book buyers.
"But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice," (NIV)
I only pray that my video... book... life... will cause even the tiniest amount of discussion about the things that matter most.
You say that seminarians read the scriptures in the original languages. I know some do but I doubt that most make the effort. I doubt that TV preachers or that insipid dead guy they play on the AM radio in St. John's and Halifax every Sunday do any critical thought
Scary that few preachers bother to learn mathematics, physics or quantum theory. They dismiss it all and claim the world is 6,000 years old. Most scientists are familiar with major religions.
And here I thought the Bible Society had it translated into hundreds of different languages. Please don't insult the Qu'ran in a conversation with me. I'm not ever going there. One thing that Muslims do that I respect, they read their Holy Book in the original language. Christians read it in any old version they got from their particular twist of X-tianity. I have ancestors who were Plymouth Brethren, even when they got to Toronto.
If the Bible was the definitive word of God, it would be coded in to our minds from birth not printed in hundreds of different versions. As it is most believers who ascribe absolute perfection to the printed word never read it in the original languages.
@jwaustinmunguy Hundred different versions? Ancient Greek to English has multiple translation patters that result in the same meaning.
The only forced (false) translation in the mainstream is the Jehovah witness bible and some Arabic translations by Islam has been altered to say that Jesus Christ isn't God but all you have to do is do a basic Google search and its easy to find if its a fake or not.
Isn't the Bible God's Word? And doesn't the Bible describe the Word as being God (John 1:1)? If that's the case, I'm confused about why he says we place God above his Word... which is God. That's like saying, we worship God instead of God. Shouldn't we hold scripture up with the same type of reverence we hold for God?
you can never separate Jesus from his word. They are the same. You can not lift one up and not the other. Rob Bells message is a slippery one and one double dipped in humanism. Jesus IS Lord John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Ground yourself on the word for that is the rock, beware of those who preach anything else.
The Bible is obsolete and it can NOT be updated but only replaced by new knowledge… it is important to know it, but the gods have changed in order to adapt to our spiritual needs and personal progress. It’s up to you if you want to be stuck with old out-of-date information, otherwise there is no change nor understanding…
@gahver God is the same yesterday as he is tomorrow... Its not God who needs to change its us. We give our lives to Jesus and follow him by his truth and to say the bible is obsolete... have you read it? how is living a holy life free of sin obsolete? All of a sudden "O the worlds different so sin is now ok and we can rebel against God and its all good..." God is everlasting and is the same through all time. God doesn't need to learn because he is all knowing.
@gilbert4321 Why would you give your life to a god if you have nothing to give? In other words: spending your life preventing experiences is not a synonymous of holiness; it is an indication of ignorance. God HAS changed because you are using internet to defend the ideology and to learn, thus the bible becomes obsolete for its content is limited while internet is infinite. Top That!
"The Bible is not the point... Bibliolotry..." So much like the Buddhist principle of not worshiping the finger that points at the moon and not seeing the moon itself. Well said, Bell, well said.
For the truth about religion try Robert M. Price, ' The reason driven life ' or John W. Loftus or Victor J. Stenger, ' God, the failed hypothesis' . Also interesting to have a look at the 1500BCE papyrus of Ani, with its god Osiris who weighs the heart to decide who can pass to the land of the living.[ The need to know the names of the gods & the negative confession & other magic texts to get there]. James Frazer's 'The Golden Bough' and C.S. Lewis, 'Mere Christianity'
Make no mistake about it, HELL IS REAL!!! If you are not born again as mentioned in the Bible, see my video titled “Warning: Four Types of People that are Hellbound”. It's a message I preached on the streets of Long Beach CA.
@madturki Pick and choose! How convenient, imagine you do that with the justice system, you follow this practice and you’re bound to commit a crime. Rules to rigid to follow, living in the verge of sin or on a wide margin of mistakes to make. That’s a way of updating the Bible, just like it has been modified throughout the years to meet the ideology of the ages, remember the inquisition!
Spirituality is a very personal thing and the best you can hope for is finding someone that has similar beliefs to yourself so that there is some level of comraderie in this life. Religion dictates that you believe a single interpretation, by someone "trained" in religion, of a text that was written over a thousand years ago by a number of individuals interpreting events from their own particular standpoint. The question is: What do you want, religion or spirituality?
@lmsb1234 Spirituality without Jesus is demonic and witchcraft. Your seeking self experiences for some sorta high when we are not called to find pleasure in this life but to serve. Jesus is the king not us we need to seek to bring glory and worship to God, not ourselves. This life is not about us and how we can improve ourselves. Its about how we can serve, worship and bring glory to God.
@lasvegastroll Psalm 5 sais "God hates all who do evil" and Amos 5 sais "I hate your songs" when the singers had neglected justice and feding the poor. So yeah, God doesn't preach hate initially, but whenevery ou love, you hate automaticly. I hate poverty. I hate doing evil.
What Rob says makes so much sense to me. A few weeks ago I wanted to take my own life. I couldn't live it the way I was living it any longer. I picked up a AA book and began reading Bill's story. I came to the part where Bill had given over his life to God because his life had become unmanageable. Immediately I knew that I was to do the same thing. And in that same moment God entered my heart, mind and body in a way I had never experienced in church or anywhere else. He has begun a work in me.
cont.... There was no scripture, theology or mission statement. Just Him and me and love. I want to spend the rest of my life giving him the rest of my life.
@jessymoadeeb More than thirty seven years ago I joined AA and quickly realized there was no value in debating god with anyone there. To do so could hurt someone else's sobriety and that would be throwing back all the kindness I received there from others.
Find your own higher power and grow strong with it. Mine is a bit complicated as it follows physics and all of the beautiful results of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics but won't come in to focus until the Standard Model is validated or not.
@jwaustinmunguy I always take heart in scriptural references to 'light' which represents the heavens and their infinity and also requires both Quantum Science and Relativity to work in the way that the heavens behave if you watch carefully
He tries to argue that his view has always been around and was normal. However, this is simply not true. While it has always been around, it was never the norm. It has repeatedly been proven unbiblical and rejected
The thing about Rob Bell is that he often sees a legitimate problem in Christianity. That is okay. The problem is that he typically sends us in the wrong direction for answers.
One thing I've seen is that his scholarship is terrible. He takes Scripture out of context a lot. He also quotes people like Luther out of context. He takes one quote from Luther that seems to support Bell's position but ignores everything else Luther says about hell. It's bad scholarship. It's dishonest.
Just remember the world is watching how we love each other and treat each other. We need to listen with respect and gentleness.That is what the Bible says.
The bible becomes like a golden calf??? What?? Seriously?? The bible is the word of God, It's all about Christ, to be read, studied, memorized. We can't know it enough. It can never become a golden calf. How stupid. How can you hold up the bible to high?? It is what God says. How sad for these people in this meeting place.
It says to proclaim the gospel, do you do that Rob??
All of you, this is ridiculous. God made the Bible through the ones who wrote it and gave it to us so that we could know Him and follow Him and to literally go out to earth and be like Him. Yes we all sin and will never come close being like God, but He loves us either way and He still wants us dirty sinning people to do great things for Him. Read the Bible, pray and talk with God, and do something to change the world. forget all this arguing and crap. it's useless. Go bring God to the people.
He doesn't understand the work of the Holy Spirit. He is a mystic and seeks God thru "meditation" Honestly, he's a new age kinda guy if you read his books. He loves Merton and catholic monks. He can experience god thru meditation: i think he's experiencing another god -satan
people, christians especially, are attracted to teachings such as rob bell's because he does not focus on sin or eternal punishment. people are apt to follow a feel good theology rather than a true and accurate one. false teachers will always be among us till christ returns. pray for wisdom and discernment my brothers and sisters because there is no room for error here. peace and love, arnie.
@arnoldsimage Right, and yet we're to believe that no parent here on earth would ever send their children to hell for all eternity but a God who loves us more than we love our own children has no problem with eternal torment. Excuse me while I notice the glaring contradiction. Belief based salvation is flawed. You need to accept that.
Does anyone know why he says we believe in the God, Jesus, and the power of the resurrection instead of saying the power of the Holy Spirit? He said it twice. Just wondering, does anyone know?
Truth is the truth whether you believe it or not. You can not the truth but the truth can change you. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, no one can come to the Father except through me. That is reality. Heaven and earth will pass away but the Word of God will stand forever. Amen!
I'd say that I don't know well enough. I'd also say that the Bible has a sufficient (by God's knowledge) answer to our questions - as far as we need to know to love Him the way He loves (also by His knowledge). To say there is mystery is hardly an understatement; conversely, to dictate the limits of what God has/will reveal to any one person is not our call to make either. I trust God alone, and my objectivity in not following Bell closely leads me to rely on God more instead of involvement.
Though I won't state either being in favor of or in opposition to Rob Bell and the things he is teaching, I will say this statement, which I will reiterate is indeed neutral in opinion, because I ask myself the same question and find little resolution in it: How many people are willing to stand up and say "I know about Hell better"? How many people are willing to say "I know where people are gonna go" or, more specifically, "I know how God thinks"?
Rob Bell is just one more of the "make your own gospel" crowd. If you want to know just how close the return of Christ is, look at how many of these people are being hatched today. We're in a war for truth, the liars and frauds seem to be winning. There "is" truth.... it's Gods word...anyone that want's it will find it! Sadly most just want to fulfill their own desires and enjoy life thinking they're on their way to heaven, when in reality they're on their way to hell. VERY SAD INDEED!
i think that the religious community is obsessed with fear and control and not enough about Love and mercy. If the goodness of God and the hope of heaven is not good enough to motivate someone to follow after Him then threats of torture are just plain crazy. Is Heaven an oppurtunity or a threat. I personally read the bible and see that the unsaved are killed in the lake of fire not tortured forever. But I guess some people are content believing that God is a loving torturer. Oh well.
@Yeaokigetit The fear comes from the departures from God's Word. It is righteous to call out dangerous teaching! Dangerous teaching is teaching another Gospel other than the one outlined in His Word. Hell is Just! People who reject the truth accept the lie! the Lie leads to eternal damnation, that is directly what the Bible teaches, no two ways about it. When we put on a lens of "how can God do that?!?!" we are assuming authority OVER what God's word teaches.
'Did God really say that?' Said satan to Adam and Eve. Yeah, this video made me want to give money to Rob Bell and buy his book to make him more rich and famous to find out what he's saying, but from this video he's saying you don't need to be saved, why? cause love wins and hells only temporary, why bother to be saved? God save us from this American deceivers. Read Acts 17:11 and act on God's word, not words of man & 2 Corinthians 11:4
i have yet to know one single person who worshipped the bible and no one who put the Bible above God. this is a false arguement whereby HE is setting up HIS group as better than other churches or Christians, in that those of HIS church will not be the idolators others are! this is a LIE!
God protected his word and doctrine IN THE BIBLE
ALL Christians doctrine comes from the bible, so it is not possible to KNOW God WITHOUT knowing the bible
@buzzbbird What about the 30+ gospels that were left out of the bible, including a gospel for Judas and a gospel for Mary Magdalene. The bible isn't complete, it was written by humans who make mistakes and who make decisions on what books got included based on politics.
@socialistauditor You are a fool! You accept a contract dictated by an executive to his secretary as HIS word. Others may claim to have a contrat, but if it did not come through his office and is validated by him, it is not, legally, considered valid or real. But you think that God is ans was unable toprotect HIS precious word to preserve it for us AS his word?
There are MANY writings pertaining to Christ, his life and messege. So what? does their existing prove they are God's word? con't
The mere claim of one's writing being from God is nothing, in and of itself. God has move holy, dedicated men to validate what is and is not of hom. If you decide to accept MANY other works, then, please go and follow those works, just stop calling yourself a Christian!
These other works are not included as their messege is not in accordance with the rest of God's word, the OT included. your spouting off about something you know not is telling. You repeat what you hear, not what you know!
@buzzbbird Wow, you already are being judgmental and I believe your holy book states judge not lest ye be judged. I suggest you look in the mirror before you start calling others out for their faults.
The bible was decided on by a group of MEN who each had their own motivations. The word in there is true, but you have to look past the power and politics of the time and realize man is fallible, therefore anything passed down by man is fallible. I suggest you read some history and get back to me
@socialistauditor You BET I am being judgemental. Thanks for the out of context and incomplete quoting of a singel bible verse, acting as if it is a stand alone doctrinal statement. You have decided to believe that God does not use ones' personal agenda to further his agenda or control what is kept or not. IF you believe that the bible is compliled due to human whim, then why was not that which is written, human whim, as well?
Read the biblical view of judging b4 presuming to lecture another
@jncarlos007 Actually very simple. Take a history book with many many chapters written by many different men (each chapter would be synonymous with a gospel). Each chapter may have left things out, misunderstood facts or omitted facts (or in the case of the bible many chapters were left out by the original church individual gospels were written with bias, etc). That means there are many errors, but I wouldn't say that the history text is wrong, just that that there are flaws in it. This doesn't
@socialistauditor So God is incapable of ensuring his message is made? Humanity can thwart God? It takes inept man to write God's word and then inept man to ineptly comprehend the ineptly written word to create religion?
@jncarlos007 mean the message isn't in there, just that you have to filter out the bigotry, ignorance and primitive thinking that are present. That is how the message in the book is true, but the book itself is fallible. The message isn't clearly written out because man is fallible. This is why organized religion is a bane, they take the message, pervert it for power, bias or ignorance it becomes a religion that isn't even about the message, the message is about Love and not judging.
@socialistauditor So in other words, it takes YOU to correctly understand what God is trying to say? I think that is what Bell is doing that is leading to so much trouble.
WOW Harold Camping said HE affirmed everything the bible affirms, as well. That proclamation is nont a doctrinal statement and is purposefully vague.Having listened to your preaching and teaching is anti-christian, humanist and unholy!
@TheDownAndOutKS First, as Christians, we certainly should not hate Mr. Bell. The reason many Christians reject his teachings and philosophies is because his beliefs do not align with the Bible in many cases. For example, in one of his videos, he talks about a Ghandi and whether or not he went to hell. He says that Jesus rescues us from a God of wrath, which is not Biblical. "For God so loved the world..." John 3:16. I am running out of space to fully explain, but that is a starting point.
God bless Rob Bell for his courageous stance. Four years ago, as a seminary-trained evangelical Christian, I was challenged to research reincarnation -- and what I found turned my life upside-down. After reading 40 books, and hundreds of hours of biblical and scientific research, I launched a website to help Christians understand how things got so far afield. Check out Reincarnation Truth dot com
leave Rob Bell alone!! lol i think he's sincere and just finding himself...eventually he'll come back to the truth. he's very compassionate and most christians should be more like him in that respect
I have one question, "How did Abraham and David get to heaven". God states in scripture, that their faith was counted to them as righteousness. Hebrews
There is so many instances in which people unaware of Jesus were accepted into heaven. The true question we need to ask ourselves is, "what is faith?".
@alienwwjd Ok here's your answer. Neither were unaware of Jesus. The old testament is peppered with Jesus Christ. Many of David's psalms were Messianic, in that they spoke explicitly of the Saviour who was to come. Abraham, when he went to sacrifice his son was provided with a scapegoat. The son, Isaac, represented the world, and the scapegoat represented the lamb of God, Jesus Christ. I'm sure the pair were well aware of the prophecies and trusted in the coming saviour.
he says he worships God and that the Bible is a golden calf or distraction, but in fact what he does is twist the Bible into what he wants it to be, and thus creates himself his own god to worship. thus he worships his own god, a vision of what he sees as ideal because he has no foundation to stand his beliefs on.
If thiests stopped using rational logic they would be athiest's. It is illogical to conclude from creation and all that exists in it that NOTHING rather than something MUST have caused it. You believe in magic upsman, we don't. You believe things can just appear out of thin air, or worse, you believe matter actually appears out of nothing. They put the rabbit in the hat beforehand buddy, it doesn't just appear out of nowhere : )
So I think it's incorrect to say our faith is not just in Gods word alone. My faith IS absolutely in Gods word alone, because that's all that was given to me. Nothing outside of His word was revealed to me to have faith in. All I have is His word. I can see creation and say yes a greater One than me must exist, but I can't know Him relationally from that. He has always chosen to reveal Himself relationally through His word whether verbal or written.
Your rephrase is better, thank you, I'm still very hesitant to agree though. I can see where you're coming from and I agree to an extent. I know Abraham didn't have scripture and he was declared righteous, BUT he did have "special" revelation. Gods word came to him verbally but Gods word comes to us in written form, and there can be no faith without the word of God because faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
That's the beauty of the Christian faith, we have a standard to measure every word and idea of man against. By removing that standard, ie making the word of God supplementary not central, is to remove our ability to know what's true. Scripture is essential to faith, sanctification and salvation. If scripture is proven to be false then our faith is absolutely destroyed, because Jesus said scripture cannot be broken
@TheServantofiam Scripture is too binding for them. If scripture is the standard for truth about God then people don't have the freedom to ramble on and say a bunch of rediculous sophistry.
@TheServantofiam let me try to rephrase. say the bible was destroyed. would that mean God does not exist? would that mean Jesus wasn't crucified for our redemption? not at all. i can know this is true through the holy spirit. i agree, the bible is inerrant. so what i should have said was our faith is not just in the bible
@bergevin35 Your argument is completely fallacious. You are appealing to a hypothetical situation and putting the word of God in subjection to personal experience. I love it when people like you ramble on and on about "truth" with your platitudes and it's all made up out of thin air.
I'm a little confused by what Rob means about worship in regards to the bible. Is he saying that the bible is the very Word of God yet we shouldn't worship it as such? Because I don't know anyone who bows down to their bible or prays to it, what does he mean worship the bible?
he's trying to get our focus on God first, bible second. we need to ask what is the heart of God from what the Holy Spirit speaks to us as opposed to only reading the bible, a story of God's revelation. if we only focus on the bible, and for some reason the bible is found to be historically inaccurate, our faith would be destroyed. but our faith is not in the words of the bible. our faith is in the power of God through the Holy Spirit to bring truth to us. the bible should be supplemental
@Ogdinthorpe there are many reasons, experiential and intellectual, i believe in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit independent of the bible. if i were to believe in God ONLY cuz the bible seemed inerrant, and it was found to be errant,it would destroy my belief in God. if instead i focus on God first and supplement it w/ the bible, then my belief in God wont be destroyed, cuz he exists independent of biblical errancy/inerrancy. listen to 'william lane craig: what is inerrancy?' for a great response to this
@bergevin35 So how did you find out about Jesus and the Holy Spirit? How do you know when your "experiences" are true? I may have a completely different experience that seems true to me. What makes your experience more valid than mine?
@Ogdinthorpe i can know all these are true through a spiritual/experiential connection with something that enlightens me of this. now if i were try to say this is true to you, and you have a different experience, we would have to go outside of our experiences to try and persuade each other that one of us was correct.
@bergevin35 Here's a BIG problem for you...you are CONTRADICTING what the bible says. Why? Because in 2 Peter 1:16-21 Peter says that even though they were "first hand eyewitnesses" they had the "more sure word of scripture". So, according to Peter, personal experience is subject to the word but you say otherwise. So who is right, the bible or YOU?
I'm going with the bible and I'll just count what you said as "junk mail".
@Ogdinthorpe if you look at the NIV,NASB,and many translations,Peter is saying the disciples were "eye witnesses of his majesty" and the scriptures back up their assertions.AFTER giving eye witness testimony,Peter says,"And we have the words of the prophets made more certain," (NIV) "we have the prophetic word made sure,"(NASB)"so we regard the words of the prophets as confirmed beyond doubt"(God's Word Translation).Peter is saying this is what we saw,if you didnt believe the prophets you should
@bergevin35 If you check the sentence structure in the greek (using a greek, keyword dictionary) the sentence is placing the emphasis on the "more sure word", meaning the WORD is the "more sure" object of the sentence. In addition this is also confirmed in at least 2 commentaries.
Aside from that, everything that Jesus did was a fulfillment based on Holy Writ NOT subjective experience.
In the "Old Testament" the word is "Sheol" after the King James Version was translated as "hell"; In the New Testament Jesus used "the Valley of Gehenna" ( a real place in Jesus times) after the King James version was translated as "hell", Peter used the word "Tarturos" then KJV changed for "hell". So anybody knows which "hell" Rob Bell doesn't believe?
I say i am saved only in the sense that i have finally come to a place where that hatred that has been ingrained in my mind since a child has finally started to dissipate. During American slavery times i read a Pastors accounts of sitting at a table with a young woman who was telling of her love for Jesus and all the charity she has done in her life. Yet, just feet from her the Pastor locks eyes with her slave who has had her ears cut off by this christian woman.
who needs to be saved myself. Asking God for forgiveness is not a one time opportunity and none of us know for SURE that we are saved until we are at heavens gates. Satan corrupts our minds and tries to lead us to believe everyday that our conduct is ok in the eyes of God. He is said to be the father of lies in the bible but yet we do not keep watch over what we so easily have come to know as the truth but is it really? I question what has tainted my views of what God really is?
@wisdomlistens20 You know how many times religionists have used Satan to justify their judgments against those they do not like or agree with? It's practically countless and it's all about fear and control. That's what that's about.
I know that my job here on earth is not to judge and hate and enrage all who are around me or to force them to convert. I am friends with everyone from gay, straight, bi, drug users and sex addicts. The only way i can change their heart is to show love because these poor souls have been shunned and cursed at by the very people who seek Gods love but react to sinners the way we all deserve to be treated by God himself. I am no better than any of them because i admit i am a sinner
I see that a path with god is a deeply personal walk and what is true for me will not identically be true for you.I see that it is ones ability to shed the inner hatred of what life has thought us that will lead to a true understanding of Gods love. it was not until i broke away from what a Pastor wanted to tell me i should think about God and found out for myself that i was truly saved. we are all interconnected and trying to say that one good person is worse than the other is wrong
You cannot seperate the bible from knowing Christ, and to say this is to disconnect the bible from judging your doctrines. affirming the bible, so what, the cults do this too. its the interpretation of that bible that creates the problem. Do what? What part do you want to do? The Universal part? the denial of hell part? He leaves out the deliverance from hell part. You see, interpretation is the rub, not quoting affirmations that presuppose orthodoxy.
"Biblio-idolatry"??? Big word. "We worship God and not the bible!" Ok...but HOW does Bell know which God he is worshipping? And whether or not he worships HIM acceptably? "Only know Jesus and the power of His resurrection"...ok, but where do I find out about HIS atoning death and resurrection?? To downplay the scripture, while claiming to "worship God", is, perhaps, well-intentioned, but either very naive...or profoundly arrogant. God IS and does what HIS WORD says He is and does.
@Truthunderfire And logically speaking, if God were not bigger than and beyond total human comprehension, he would cease to be God. Any Bible college Logic, Apologetics, or Philosophy class will teach you that.
@Truthunderfire of different belief systems are going to believe things which are true. They are going to live lifestyles which match up with the commandments of Jesus because they're smart and they desire to know God and they desire to love. As far as knowing what is part of God's "bigger"ness is concerned, it's pretty easy to tell something which is love from something which is not, something which is logical from something which is not, and something which is just from something which is not.
@alyssastuart It's "pretty easy to tell what is love verses what it is not"? Really?? From WHOSE perspective? If same-sex couples claim, "we LOVE each other", does God endorse that definition? If a couple engages in pre-marital sex, because "they're in love", is that love? LOVE can only be defined by God's word. The scripture says, "In YOUR light, we see light".
@Truthunderfire which give us insight into the nature of God. However, I see nothing about DNA, the process of photosynthesis, or the details of our solar system in the Bible. Does that make them untrue? No. If I find certain morals and principles in other religions which are also held by Christianity, isn't that evidence of truth's prevalence in various places? God doesn't just seek out those who are Christians; He desires to reveal himself to all and THAT, friend, is biblical. So some people
@Truthunderfire So which denomination of Christianity is the one with which adheres to the plain, universal understanding you refer to? The whole reason for denominations is disagreement in interpretation of what the Bible says, isn't it? Yet most of those denominations are accepted as "Christianity." And anyone can disagree with an 'interpretation' as we're not dealing with FACTS. I do subscribe to the concreteness of certain things which are evident in scripture and in observable reality
@alyssastuart So they all disagree on the entire bible? I've never heard this. I thought they had some commonalities? So I guess that means that we can all say whatever we want and it will fall under the banner of "personal interpretation"? And, as long as people have the appearance of keeping the commandments then they're christians too?
@Truthunderfire21 common beliefs. All I'm saying is that there are many things which the various denominations disagree upon. I've yet to see more than one denomination that holds precisely the same beliefs, and the beliefs differ even within denominations. I don't believe it's reasonable or virtuous to 'say whatever we want' ad call it good so we can justify ourselves. I do think it's inevitable that people will understand certain parables or texts in conflicting ways.As for keeping...
@alyssastuart Absolutely and the Bible itself has thousands of years of various groups of people who interpret various beliefs in different ways. Typically Evangelical extremists (cultists) tend to view the Bible as some kind of god. Their view of it as being this perfect book like some kind of god blinds them to the problems found within various texts. Biblical religion (Christian sects) has the capacity for great good but also the capacity to be very dangerous.
@Truthunderfire21 ...the 'appearing of keeping the commandments' (whatever that means?) to be a Christian...well, a Christian is simply one who is obedient and faithful to the commandments of Christ and models their lifestyle around His. I'm not sure where I made that unclear, but it was certainly not my intention to muddy that up.
It should also be pointed out that it is impossible to read the Bible without some kind of interpretation. It's been this way with religious texts for thousands of years. Your interpretation of "the truth of the Bible" may be different than some one else's. And let's please remember that God is much bigger than we are able to pinpoint so none of us has Him completely figured out, nor do we have all the theology figured out. Truth is bigger than on collection of books., isn't it?
@alyssastuart If that is true then you have no basis by which to disagree with what anyone says because that is just "their own interpretation". Also, you have no basis to even call yourself a christian because to even desire to do so would require you to adhere to a plain, universal understanding of those passages making them not subject to personal interpretation.
@alyssastuart For you to call God "bigger" would also require you to appeal to absolutes from scripture. The problem is that anybody could say anything about God and attribute it to "bigger", but how do we know that what they are saying about God is really part of His "bigger"ness?
@Truthunderfire21 I have said nothing of the fate of people condemning others. I only pointed out their apparent ignorance and lack of understanding of what he's actually saying. Anyone who has read the book should be able to see that he DOES think Jesus is the only way to Heaven, but that it's possible for someone to love everything Jesus is without understanding or believing the right theology. Someone also misinterpreted a point about the age of accountability as support for child sacrifice.
NEVER be a vulnerable believer....NEVER!!!!!!! This is the Emergent church...a blend of New age and a twisted spin on the Bible.....you are now warned!!!!
The ignorance of the people posting on this video condemning Rob Bell is saddening. How about you just let it alone and follow God and PRAY for people who, in your infinite wisdom, have decided are preaching falsehood? Worry about yourself and stop judging other people. Let God deal with each of us as HE chooses and butt out! Love and tell truth, but stop condemning others. Not your job, folks.
@alyssastuart Nobody needs "infinite wisdom", they just need to read the bible and see that what Rob Bell teaches doesn't line up with it. If the bible says that Bell is condemned then others are just relaying the message. (Galatians 1)
@shobby1989 i just need to listen what he says . I have watched many of his videos and i confess I used to enjoy the fresh way he use to expose the faith. But he says that God would not be the God of love if he put his creation in hell. This is enough to me. It would be fantastic if he was using his talent to say the truth , but he is preaching a false Gospel . He is denying, or questioning the existence of hell , a thing that Jesus empathized about 18 times in the bible.
@u2bMODERATOR Jesus talks more about poverty than hell. If the focus of your church is about using hell as some kind of 'stick' in a carrot-and-stick game of salvation then you should be concerned.
@catandtonic Not only poverty my friend. This is the Catholic discourse . He speaks about poverty to preach mercy. But the central verses of NT is salvation and perdition . John 3:16 could say just that God gave his son and stop there, but it is completed by to all that believes in him do not PERISH . Salvation is not about salvation from hungry, is salvation from eternal death. If i talk about light the opposition is darkness, if i talk about salvation the opposite is perdition.
@shobby1989 And also, Billy Grahan denies Jesus as the only way. Rob is not speaking directly but using philosophy to flourish what is pretty exposed in the bible .
At the beginning of Love Wins Bell suggests that if a child gets an automatic ticket to heaven because they are too young to have made a decision about God - then why not kill every child before age 12? That's absurd my friends! The Bible says "thou shall not kill" and further says you DO NOT sacrifice your sons and daughters. Not too mention that would extinguish the human race with Bell's suggestion. Please read the Bible for yourself and pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob 4 wisdom.
Go Rob Bell. I support you and your church 100%. I wish others who only wear Christianity as a nametag would realize the Love of God and stop judging. It reminds me of Jesus when he was ridiculed by the priests. Everyone saying false teacher and blasphemer, please pray and search your hearts. Are you really showing the love of Christ?
Jesus is the way the truth and the light. Only through him may we find our way to eternal life and happiness.
Jesus is our only hope? Wow... what a heretic! Let's learn what the bible says then do it? Wow... what a blasphemer! We should hang this infidel on the cross for his lies!!! ........ (Just my way of debating logic) 8)
@shobby1989 Which Jesus? Islam claims Jesus too, so do the Mormon's. Now right here in this vid Bell says "We affirm the Bible" then he goes on to say "The Bible is not the point" Well it says in Romans "Faith comes by hearing hearing of the Word" God told us His Word never fails. The Bible from Genesis to Revelation also warns, teaches and exposes False Teachers and it was Jesus who said "You will know them..." Matthew 7 - Also read Jude it's a very short book. Read it.
Straw man defence. I do not believe people are worried about you worshiping the bible or living too much like Christ, rather that you (Bell) uses words like 'Hell' and assign a new vague definition.
So Bell has been preaching his emergent universalism fallacy leading his followers down the broad path with the rest of the world that do not want the real God and the true Christ. Jesus is the only way. So, it is not unexpected that bell's book rises in the charts as the world eats up a false universalism theology. So, his issue now is not just a bad reputation but an eternity in Hell because there is greater condemnation for those that alter God's Word.Pray for him.
"We do not worship the Bible, we worship God." --Rob Bell in this video
The whole of Reformed thought is that the Bible is given to us to be the ultimate authority. It is "worshipped" because it is what sets our hearts after the desires of Christ.
Rob refers to "God, Jesus and the power of the resurrection"....no, it's God, Jesus and the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit. This is what I think is missing from Rob Bell's life because Jesus said he'd send the Holy Spirit to us to guide us into all truth. The Holy Spirit brings to life God's word in our spirit to understand and apply it. Come Holy Spirit, come!
kiddosgal 2 weeks ago
How do you hold God above Scripture? Is Rob saying that he has a clearer view of God than scripture? The Mormons believed the same thing which is why the Bible has been diminished in whenever it interferes with their teachings. Rob is doing the same thing, but the worst thing about it is his denial to be clear on what he actually believes. He doesn't take a stand for his real interpretation because he knows he'll lose the evangelical book buyers.
genkimachina 2 weeks ago
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I am thankful for Mars Hill and Rob Bell. Whether you agree with him or not, he has caused the world to start talking about Christ. It's as Paul said,
Philippians 1:18
"But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice," (NIV)
I only pray that my video... book... life... will cause even the tiniest amount of discussion about the things that matter most.
FixMeLoveThem 1 month ago
You say that seminarians read the scriptures in the original languages. I know some do but I doubt that most make the effort. I doubt that TV preachers or that insipid dead guy they play on the AM radio in St. John's and Halifax every Sunday do any critical thought
Scary that few preachers bother to learn mathematics, physics or quantum theory. They dismiss it all and claim the world is 6,000 years old. Most scientists are familiar with major religions.
God isn't all that believable.
jwaustinmunguy 1 month ago
And here I thought the Bible Society had it translated into hundreds of different languages. Please don't insult the Qu'ran in a conversation with me. I'm not ever going there. One thing that Muslims do that I respect, they read their Holy Book in the original language. Christians read it in any old version they got from their particular twist of X-tianity. I have ancestors who were Plymouth Brethren, even when they got to Toronto.
jwaustinmunguy 1 month ago
If the Bible was the definitive word of God, it would be coded in to our minds from birth not printed in hundreds of different versions. As it is most believers who ascribe absolute perfection to the printed word never read it in the original languages.
jwaustinmunguy 1 month ago
@jwaustinmunguy Hundred different versions? Ancient Greek to English has multiple translation patters that result in the same meaning.
The only forced (false) translation in the mainstream is the Jehovah witness bible and some Arabic translations by Islam has been altered to say that Jesus Christ isn't God but all you have to do is do a basic Google search and its easy to find if its a fake or not.
gilbert4321 1 month ago
@jwaustinmunguy Ancient Greek and Ancient Hebrew are required classes in seminary. Pastors do research the original languages.
gilbert4321 1 month ago
Isn't the Bible God's Word? And doesn't the Bible describe the Word as being God (John 1:1)? If that's the case, I'm confused about why he says we place God above his Word... which is God. That's like saying, we worship God instead of God. Shouldn't we hold scripture up with the same type of reverence we hold for God?
holdsworthdesign 2 months ago
@holdsworthdesign Most of it is hogwash. That's funny because the participants were pork-abhorring shepherds.
jwaustinmunguy 1 month ago
you can never separate Jesus from his word. They are the same. You can not lift one up and not the other. Rob Bells message is a slippery one and one double dipped in humanism. Jesus IS Lord John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Ground yourself on the word for that is the rock, beware of those who preach anything else.
Larsoveli 2 months ago
The Bible is obsolete and it can NOT be updated but only replaced by new knowledge… it is important to know it, but the gods have changed in order to adapt to our spiritual needs and personal progress. It’s up to you if you want to be stuck with old out-of-date information, otherwise there is no change nor understanding…
gahver 2 months ago
@gahver God is the same yesterday as he is tomorrow... Its not God who needs to change its us. We give our lives to Jesus and follow him by his truth and to say the bible is obsolete... have you read it? how is living a holy life free of sin obsolete? All of a sudden "O the worlds different so sin is now ok and we can rebel against God and its all good..." God is everlasting and is the same through all time. God doesn't need to learn because he is all knowing.
gilbert4321 2 months ago in playlist Mark Driscoll
@gilbert4321 Why would you give your life to a god if you have nothing to give? In other words: spending your life preventing experiences is not a synonymous of holiness; it is an indication of ignorance. God HAS changed because you are using internet to defend the ideology and to learn, thus the bible becomes obsolete for its content is limited while internet is infinite. Top That!
gahver 2 months ago
"The Bible is not the point... Bibliolotry..." So much like the Buddhist principle of not worshiping the finger that points at the moon and not seeing the moon itself. Well said, Bell, well said.
ericahlovell 3 months ago
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For the truth about religion try Robert M. Price, ' The reason driven life ' or John W. Loftus or Victor J. Stenger, ' God, the failed hypothesis' . Also interesting to have a look at the 1500BCE papyrus of Ani, with its god Osiris who weighs the heart to decide who can pass to the land of the living.[ The need to know the names of the gods & the negative confession & other magic texts to get there]. James Frazer's 'The Golden Bough' and C.S. Lewis, 'Mere Christianity'
zytigon 4 months ago
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Make no mistake about it, HELL IS REAL!!! If you are not born again as mentioned in the Bible, see my video titled “Warning: Four Types of People that are Hellbound”. It's a message I preached on the streets of Long Beach CA.
EvangelizeYourWorld 4 months ago
well said mate.
garylaceylive 4 months ago
So funny that Mark Driscoll tweeted today:
If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself. - Augustine
But here Rob Bell says that it's good to take some but not everything is important to learn...
madturki 4 months ago 6
@madturki
rob bell... so dodgy... lol
WhereIsHomeMusic 4 months ago
@madturki Pick and choose! How convenient, imagine you do that with the justice system, you follow this practice and you’re bound to commit a crime. Rules to rigid to follow, living in the verge of sin or on a wide margin of mistakes to make. That’s a way of updating the Bible, just like it has been modified throughout the years to meet the ideology of the ages, remember the inquisition!
gahver 2 months ago
Spirituality is a very personal thing and the best you can hope for is finding someone that has similar beliefs to yourself so that there is some level of comraderie in this life. Religion dictates that you believe a single interpretation, by someone "trained" in religion, of a text that was written over a thousand years ago by a number of individuals interpreting events from their own particular standpoint. The question is: What do you want, religion or spirituality?
lmsb1234 4 months ago
@lmsb1234 Spirituality without Jesus is demonic and witchcraft. Your seeking self experiences for some sorta high when we are not called to find pleasure in this life but to serve. Jesus is the king not us we need to seek to bring glory and worship to God, not ourselves. This life is not about us and how we can improve ourselves. Its about how we can serve, worship and bring glory to God.
gilbert4321 2 months ago in playlist Mark Driscoll
He has Some Of The BEST teaching there is! But calvary Chapel People HATE him! MY God Doesn't preach hate!
lasvegastroll 5 months ago
@lasvegastroll Psalm 5 sais "God hates all who do evil" and Amos 5 sais "I hate your songs" when the singers had neglected justice and feding the poor. So yeah, God doesn't preach hate initially, but whenevery ou love, you hate automaticly. I hate poverty. I hate doing evil.
desasterz 5 months ago
@lasvegastroll naive. He doesn't take the Bible seriously.
gor5kibrohuck 2 months ago
To find out the truth about Rob Bell and his book Love Wins, visit: Hells Bell Dot Net
PreachingJesus 5 months ago
What Rob says makes so much sense to me. A few weeks ago I wanted to take my own life. I couldn't live it the way I was living it any longer. I picked up a AA book and began reading Bill's story. I came to the part where Bill had given over his life to God because his life had become unmanageable. Immediately I knew that I was to do the same thing. And in that same moment God entered my heart, mind and body in a way I had never experienced in church or anywhere else. He has begun a work in me.
jessymoadeeb 5 months ago 7
cont.... There was no scripture, theology or mission statement. Just Him and me and love. I want to spend the rest of my life giving him the rest of my life.
jessymoadeeb 5 months ago
@jessymoadeeb More than thirty seven years ago I joined AA and quickly realized there was no value in debating god with anyone there. To do so could hurt someone else's sobriety and that would be throwing back all the kindness I received there from others.
Find your own higher power and grow strong with it. Mine is a bit complicated as it follows physics and all of the beautiful results of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics but won't come in to focus until the Standard Model is validated or not.
jwaustinmunguy 1 month ago
@jwaustinmunguy I always take heart in scriptural references to 'light' which represents the heavens and their infinity and also requires both Quantum Science and Relativity to work in the way that the heavens behave if you watch carefully
jwaustinmunguy 1 month ago
@jessymoadeeb When I first went to AA, I knew in minutes that I belonged. Others shared my thoughts and experiences like nowhere else.
jwaustinmunguy 1 month ago
"The bible is not the point" ?????
They use the tniv bible, so I guess the bible isn't too series there.
onemarktwoyou 5 months ago
He tries to argue that his view has always been around and was normal. However, this is simply not true. While it has always been around, it was never the norm. It has repeatedly been proven unbiblical and rejected
Meanslover 5 months ago
The thing about Rob Bell is that he often sees a legitimate problem in Christianity. That is okay. The problem is that he typically sends us in the wrong direction for answers.
One thing I've seen is that his scholarship is terrible. He takes Scripture out of context a lot. He also quotes people like Luther out of context. He takes one quote from Luther that seems to support Bell's position but ignores everything else Luther says about hell. It's bad scholarship. It's dishonest.
Meanslover 5 months ago 2
Just remember the world is watching how we love each other and treat each other. We need to listen with respect and gentleness.That is what the Bible says.
jrvafi 5 months ago
He admits the god they have created is above the G-d of the bible.
myshoesgofast 6 months ago
Amen! Rob Bell Is a True Man Of God! FUCK CALVARY CHAPEL !
remusnigga 6 months ago
@remusnigga wow. that's a great way to share your faith.
asiankid125 5 months ago
@remusnigga you just said amen and dropped the F bomb in the same post? hmmm... shows who you are.
jackransell 4 months ago
The bible becomes like a golden calf??? What?? Seriously?? The bible is the word of God, It's all about Christ, to be read, studied, memorized. We can't know it enough. It can never become a golden calf. How stupid. How can you hold up the bible to high?? It is what God says. How sad for these people in this meeting place.
It says to proclaim the gospel, do you do that Rob??
joeforHistruth 6 months ago
You sir are confused
joeforHistruth 6 months ago
Christians are the worst part of Christianity. Unable to reason an comprehend valid thought. Rob Bell is a breath of fresh air.
Christians just hate to learn their God is more compassionate then they've been thought their entire lives.
SilverCyclist 6 months ago
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God is an evil god. Satan is not. Jesus is good.
Tajdd 6 months ago
All of you, this is ridiculous. God made the Bible through the ones who wrote it and gave it to us so that we could know Him and follow Him and to literally go out to earth and be like Him. Yes we all sin and will never come close being like God, but He loves us either way and He still wants us dirty sinning people to do great things for Him. Read the Bible, pray and talk with God, and do something to change the world. forget all this arguing and crap. it's useless. Go bring God to the people.
Teddius1138 6 months ago
He doesn't understand the work of the Holy Spirit. He is a mystic and seeks God thru "meditation" Honestly, he's a new age kinda guy if you read his books. He loves Merton and catholic monks. He can experience god thru meditation: i think he's experiencing another god -satan
gretanojoke 6 months ago
@gretanojoke Or you're experiencing another god.
SilverCyclist 6 months ago
We do not worship the Bible, as if a new golden calf. We worship God.
Jorge007dr 6 months ago 2
But Jesus IS the Word!! (John 1:1)
ToLovelyJesus 7 months ago 2
people, christians especially, are attracted to teachings such as rob bell's because he does not focus on sin or eternal punishment. people are apt to follow a feel good theology rather than a true and accurate one. false teachers will always be among us till christ returns. pray for wisdom and discernment my brothers and sisters because there is no room for error here. peace and love, arnie.
arnoldsimage 7 months ago
@arnoldsimage Right, and yet we're to believe that no parent here on earth would ever send their children to hell for all eternity but a God who loves us more than we love our own children has no problem with eternal torment. Excuse me while I notice the glaring contradiction. Belief based salvation is flawed. You need to accept that.
SilverCyclist 6 months ago
Does anyone know why he says we believe in the God, Jesus, and the power of the resurrection instead of saying the power of the Holy Spirit? He said it twice. Just wondering, does anyone know?
ashoover12 7 months ago 2
@ashoover12 It's because he wants eternal life with no strings attached.
dougmoerhoffman 4 months ago
Atta boy Rob! Preach it! Gift it. Teach it, so that the people you serve will be it and Christ will be known by their love.
MarkTiede1 7 months ago
@MarkTiede1 Atta boy Rob! Make plenty of modern pharisees like yourself.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
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Truth is the truth whether you believe it or not. You can not the truth but the truth can change you. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, no one can come to the Father except through me. That is reality. Heaven and earth will pass away but the Word of God will stand forever. Amen!
skosasih1 7 months ago
I'd say that I don't know well enough. I'd also say that the Bible has a sufficient (by God's knowledge) answer to our questions - as far as we need to know to love Him the way He loves (also by His knowledge). To say there is mystery is hardly an understatement; conversely, to dictate the limits of what God has/will reveal to any one person is not our call to make either. I trust God alone, and my objectivity in not following Bell closely leads me to rely on God more instead of involvement.
Matthiasman06 7 months ago
Though I won't state either being in favor of or in opposition to Rob Bell and the things he is teaching, I will say this statement, which I will reiterate is indeed neutral in opinion, because I ask myself the same question and find little resolution in it: How many people are willing to stand up and say "I know about Hell better"? How many people are willing to say "I know where people are gonna go" or, more specifically, "I know how God thinks"?
Matthiasman06 7 months ago
Rob Bell is just one more of the "make your own gospel" crowd. If you want to know just how close the return of Christ is, look at how many of these people are being hatched today. We're in a war for truth, the liars and frauds seem to be winning. There "is" truth.... it's Gods word...anyone that want's it will find it! Sadly most just want to fulfill their own desires and enjoy life thinking they're on their way to heaven, when in reality they're on their way to hell. VERY SAD INDEED!
gsong123 8 months ago
i think that the religious community is obsessed with fear and control and not enough about Love and mercy. If the goodness of God and the hope of heaven is not good enough to motivate someone to follow after Him then threats of torture are just plain crazy. Is Heaven an oppurtunity or a threat. I personally read the bible and see that the unsaved are killed in the lake of fire not tortured forever. But I guess some people are content believing that God is a loving torturer. Oh well.
Yeaokigetit 8 months ago
@Yeaokigetit The fear comes from the departures from God's Word. It is righteous to call out dangerous teaching! Dangerous teaching is teaching another Gospel other than the one outlined in His Word. Hell is Just! People who reject the truth accept the lie! the Lie leads to eternal damnation, that is directly what the Bible teaches, no two ways about it. When we put on a lens of "how can God do that?!?!" we are assuming authority OVER what God's word teaches.
gammafreak 7 months ago
I think that the religious community is obsessed with fear and control
Yeaokigetit 8 months ago
@Yeaokigetit stop. you're scaring me.
bustedprius 6 months ago
80% people all around the world deserve for hell now and all will receive proof of that and warning next year!!!
people decide where they want to go!
This is last year of God˛s mercy!
JezusSlave 8 months ago
Funny he says this in front of his congregation but not anywhere else. Where is the "everybody is going to heaven whether you want to or not"?
jncarlos007 8 months ago
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Do you need any more words from the devil?
'Did God really say that?' Said satan to Adam and Eve. Yeah, this video made me want to give money to Rob Bell and buy his book to make him more rich and famous to find out what he's saying, but from this video he's saying you don't need to be saved, why? cause love wins and hells only temporary, why bother to be saved? God save us from this American deceivers. Read Acts 17:11 and act on God's word, not words of man & 2 Corinthians 11:4
stoob1969 8 months ago
i have yet to know one single person who worshipped the bible and no one who put the Bible above God. this is a false arguement whereby HE is setting up HIS group as better than other churches or Christians, in that those of HIS church will not be the idolators others are! this is a LIE!
God protected his word and doctrine IN THE BIBLE
ALL Christians doctrine comes from the bible, so it is not possible to KNOW God WITHOUT knowing the bible
Rob's false strawman agrument is evil!!!!
buzzbbird 8 months ago
@buzzbbird What about the 30+ gospels that were left out of the bible, including a gospel for Judas and a gospel for Mary Magdalene. The bible isn't complete, it was written by humans who make mistakes and who make decisions on what books got included based on politics.
socialistauditor 8 months ago
@socialistauditor You are a fool! You accept a contract dictated by an executive to his secretary as HIS word. Others may claim to have a contrat, but if it did not come through his office and is validated by him, it is not, legally, considered valid or real. But you think that God is ans was unable toprotect HIS precious word to preserve it for us AS his word?
There are MANY writings pertaining to Christ, his life and messege. So what? does their existing prove they are God's word? con't
buzzbbird 8 months ago
The mere claim of one's writing being from God is nothing, in and of itself. God has move holy, dedicated men to validate what is and is not of hom. If you decide to accept MANY other works, then, please go and follow those works, just stop calling yourself a Christian!
These other works are not included as their messege is not in accordance with the rest of God's word, the OT included. your spouting off about something you know not is telling. You repeat what you hear, not what you know!
buzzbbird 8 months ago
@buzzbbird Wow, you already are being judgmental and I believe your holy book states judge not lest ye be judged. I suggest you look in the mirror before you start calling others out for their faults.
The bible was decided on by a group of MEN who each had their own motivations. The word in there is true, but you have to look past the power and politics of the time and realize man is fallible, therefore anything passed down by man is fallible. I suggest you read some history and get back to me
socialistauditor 8 months ago
@socialistauditor You BET I am being judgemental. Thanks for the out of context and incomplete quoting of a singel bible verse, acting as if it is a stand alone doctrinal statement. You have decided to believe that God does not use ones' personal agenda to further his agenda or control what is kept or not. IF you believe that the bible is compliled due to human whim, then why was not that which is written, human whim, as well?
Read the biblical view of judging b4 presuming to lecture another
buzzbbird 8 months ago
@buzzbbird The bible says discount everything that doesn't preach the gospel that Jesus preached, God save us from these American deceivers
stoob1969 8 months ago
@socialistauditor How can the Bible be true and fallible at the same time?
jncarlos007 8 months ago
@jncarlos007 Actually very simple. Take a history book with many many chapters written by many different men (each chapter would be synonymous with a gospel). Each chapter may have left things out, misunderstood facts or omitted facts (or in the case of the bible many chapters were left out by the original church individual gospels were written with bias, etc). That means there are many errors, but I wouldn't say that the history text is wrong, just that that there are flaws in it. This doesn't
socialistauditor 8 months ago
@socialistauditor So God is incapable of ensuring his message is made? Humanity can thwart God? It takes inept man to write God's word and then inept man to ineptly comprehend the ineptly written word to create religion?
jncarlos007 8 months ago
@jncarlos007 mean the message isn't in there, just that you have to filter out the bigotry, ignorance and primitive thinking that are present. That is how the message in the book is true, but the book itself is fallible. The message isn't clearly written out because man is fallible. This is why organized religion is a bane, they take the message, pervert it for power, bias or ignorance it becomes a religion that isn't even about the message, the message is about Love and not judging.
socialistauditor 8 months ago
@socialistauditor So in other words, it takes YOU to correctly understand what God is trying to say? I think that is what Bell is doing that is leading to so much trouble.
jncarlos007 8 months ago
WOW Harold Camping said HE affirmed everything the bible affirms, as well. That proclamation is nont a doctrinal statement and is purposefully vague.Having listened to your preaching and teaching is anti-christian, humanist and unholy!
buzzbbird 8 months ago
@TheDownAndOutKS First, as Christians, we certainly should not hate Mr. Bell. The reason many Christians reject his teachings and philosophies is because his beliefs do not align with the Bible in many cases. For example, in one of his videos, he talks about a Ghandi and whether or not he went to hell. He says that Jesus rescues us from a God of wrath, which is not Biblical. "For God so loved the world..." John 3:16. I am running out of space to fully explain, but that is a starting point.
dwillpirate 8 months ago
what about the Gospel?
TheMizzGAmanic 8 months ago
@TheMizzGAmanic He's preaching it.
conductroboy 8 months ago
@conductroboy the whole thing.
TheMizzGAmanic 8 months ago
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God bless Rob Bell for his courageous stance. Four years ago, as a seminary-trained evangelical Christian, I was challenged to research reincarnation -- and what I found turned my life upside-down. After reading 40 books, and hundreds of hours of biblical and scientific research, I launched a website to help Christians understand how things got so far afield. Check out Reincarnation Truth dot com
arizcarol 8 months ago
leave Rob Bell alone!! lol i think he's sincere and just finding himself...eventually he'll come back to the truth. he's very compassionate and most christians should be more like him in that respect
patriciacarrasco 8 months ago
The Bible is the Deal YO
rbirisan 8 months ago
I have one question, "How did Abraham and David get to heaven". God states in scripture, that their faith was counted to them as righteousness. Hebrews
There is so many instances in which people unaware of Jesus were accepted into heaven. The true question we need to ask ourselves is, "what is faith?".
alienwwjd 8 months ago
@alienwwjd Ok here's your answer. Neither were unaware of Jesus. The old testament is peppered with Jesus Christ. Many of David's psalms were Messianic, in that they spoke explicitly of the Saviour who was to come. Abraham, when he went to sacrifice his son was provided with a scapegoat. The son, Isaac, represented the world, and the scapegoat represented the lamb of God, Jesus Christ. I'm sure the pair were well aware of the prophecies and trusted in the coming saviour.
102michael 8 months ago
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Rob Bell either does NOT KNOW the Bible, or deliberately LIES!
rickgigliotti 8 months ago
he says he worships God and that the Bible is a golden calf or distraction, but in fact what he does is twist the Bible into what he wants it to be, and thus creates himself his own god to worship. thus he worships his own god, a vision of what he sees as ideal because he has no foundation to stand his beliefs on.
huntnpb 8 months ago
He thinks the bible is the Word of God. Just one more.
Yes, he is an bibliolatry. Just one more.
alicedoradora 8 months ago
@upsman
If thiests stopped using rational logic they would be athiest's. It is illogical to conclude from creation and all that exists in it that NOTHING rather than something MUST have caused it. You believe in magic upsman, we don't. You believe things can just appear out of thin air, or worse, you believe matter actually appears out of nothing. They put the rabbit in the hat beforehand buddy, it doesn't just appear out of nowhere : )
TheServantofiam 9 months ago
Attention all theists who are arguing with logic: stop
ItsTheUPSMan 9 months ago
@bergevin
So I think it's incorrect to say our faith is not just in Gods word alone. My faith IS absolutely in Gods word alone, because that's all that was given to me. Nothing outside of His word was revealed to me to have faith in. All I have is His word. I can see creation and say yes a greater One than me must exist, but I can't know Him relationally from that. He has always chosen to reveal Himself relationally through His word whether verbal or written.
TheServantofiam 9 months ago
@bergevin
Your rephrase is better, thank you, I'm still very hesitant to agree though. I can see where you're coming from and I agree to an extent. I know Abraham didn't have scripture and he was declared righteous, BUT he did have "special" revelation. Gods word came to him verbally but Gods word comes to us in written form, and there can be no faith without the word of God because faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
TheServantofiam 9 months ago
@Bergevin
That's the beauty of the Christian faith, we have a standard to measure every word and idea of man against. By removing that standard, ie making the word of God supplementary not central, is to remove our ability to know what's true. Scripture is essential to faith, sanctification and salvation. If scripture is proven to be false then our faith is absolutely destroyed, because Jesus said scripture cannot be broken
TheServantofiam 9 months ago
@TheServantofiam Scripture is too binding for them. If scripture is the standard for truth about God then people don't have the freedom to ramble on and say a bunch of rediculous sophistry.
Ogdinthorpe 9 months ago
@Bergevin
Thank you for clarity. I'm not sure he understands faith (knowledge and trust in truth) or the bible (Gods Word, the truth)
"our faith is not in the words of the bible"
Paul through the Holy Spirit (the true Author of scripture) disagrees with that statement
Romans 10:17
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
TheServantofiam 9 months ago
@TheServantofiam let me try to rephrase. say the bible was destroyed. would that mean God does not exist? would that mean Jesus wasn't crucified for our redemption? not at all. i can know this is true through the holy spirit. i agree, the bible is inerrant. so what i should have said was our faith is not just in the bible
bergevin35 9 months ago
@bergevin35 Your argument is completely fallacious. You are appealing to a hypothetical situation and putting the word of God in subjection to personal experience. I love it when people like you ramble on and on about "truth" with your platitudes and it's all made up out of thin air.
Ogdinthorpe 9 months ago
@Ogdinthorpe i would argue i'm putting the power of God to reveal himself to humanity above inerrancy
bergevin35 9 months ago
@bergevin35 Sorry but you platitude remains baseless.
Ogdinthorpe 9 months ago
I'm a little confused by what Rob means about worship in regards to the bible. Is he saying that the bible is the very Word of God yet we shouldn't worship it as such? Because I don't know anyone who bows down to their bible or prays to it, what does he mean worship the bible?
TheServantofiam 9 months ago
he's trying to get our focus on God first, bible second. we need to ask what is the heart of God from what the Holy Spirit speaks to us as opposed to only reading the bible, a story of God's revelation. if we only focus on the bible, and for some reason the bible is found to be historically inaccurate, our faith would be destroyed. but our faith is not in the words of the bible. our faith is in the power of God through the Holy Spirit to bring truth to us. the bible should be supplemental
bergevin35 9 months ago
@bergevin35 Really??? I've never heard this before. How do you know that all of that is true?
Ogdinthorpe 9 months ago
@Ogdinthorpe there are many reasons, experiential and intellectual, i believe in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit independent of the bible. if i were to believe in God ONLY cuz the bible seemed inerrant, and it was found to be errant,it would destroy my belief in God. if instead i focus on God first and supplement it w/ the bible, then my belief in God wont be destroyed, cuz he exists independent of biblical errancy/inerrancy. listen to 'william lane craig: what is inerrancy?' for a great response to this
bergevin35 9 months ago
@bergevin35 So how did you find out about Jesus and the Holy Spirit? How do you know when your "experiences" are true? I may have a completely different experience that seems true to me. What makes your experience more valid than mine?
Ogdinthorpe 9 months ago
@Ogdinthorpe i can know all these are true through a spiritual/experiential connection with something that enlightens me of this. now if i were try to say this is true to you, and you have a different experience, we would have to go outside of our experiences to try and persuade each other that one of us was correct.
bergevin35 9 months ago
@bergevin35 Well my "spiritual experience" has told me that everything you said is wrong.
Ogdinthorpe 9 months ago
@bergevin35 Here's a BIG problem for you...you are CONTRADICTING what the bible says. Why? Because in 2 Peter 1:16-21 Peter says that even though they were "first hand eyewitnesses" they had the "more sure word of scripture". So, according to Peter, personal experience is subject to the word but you say otherwise. So who is right, the bible or YOU?
I'm going with the bible and I'll just count what you said as "junk mail".
Ogdinthorpe 9 months ago
@Ogdinthorpe if you look at the NIV,NASB,and many translations,Peter is saying the disciples were "eye witnesses of his majesty" and the scriptures back up their assertions.AFTER giving eye witness testimony,Peter says,"And we have the words of the prophets made more certain," (NIV) "we have the prophetic word made sure,"(NASB)"so we regard the words of the prophets as confirmed beyond doubt"(God's Word Translation).Peter is saying this is what we saw,if you didnt believe the prophets you should
bergevin35 9 months ago
@bergevin35 If you check the sentence structure in the greek (using a greek, keyword dictionary) the sentence is placing the emphasis on the "more sure word", meaning the WORD is the "more sure" object of the sentence. In addition this is also confirmed in at least 2 commentaries.
Aside from that, everything that Jesus did was a fulfillment based on Holy Writ NOT subjective experience.
Ogdinthorpe 9 months ago
1:19 Don't say u affirm the whole Bible and dont, affirm it and do!!!!!
randompotatoesquad 9 months ago
In the "Old Testament" the word is "Sheol" after the King James Version was translated as "hell"; In the New Testament Jesus used "the Valley of Gehenna" ( a real place in Jesus times) after the King James version was translated as "hell", Peter used the word "Tarturos" then KJV changed for "hell". So anybody knows which "hell" Rob Bell doesn't believe?
AlternativaRadical 9 months ago
I say i am saved only in the sense that i have finally come to a place where that hatred that has been ingrained in my mind since a child has finally started to dissipate. During American slavery times i read a Pastors accounts of sitting at a table with a young woman who was telling of her love for Jesus and all the charity she has done in her life. Yet, just feet from her the Pastor locks eyes with her slave who has had her ears cut off by this christian woman.
wisdomlistens20 9 months ago
who needs to be saved myself. Asking God for forgiveness is not a one time opportunity and none of us know for SURE that we are saved until we are at heavens gates. Satan corrupts our minds and tries to lead us to believe everyday that our conduct is ok in the eyes of God. He is said to be the father of lies in the bible but yet we do not keep watch over what we so easily have come to know as the truth but is it really? I question what has tainted my views of what God really is?
wisdomlistens20 9 months ago
@wisdomlistens20 You know how many times religionists have used Satan to justify their judgments against those they do not like or agree with? It's practically countless and it's all about fear and control. That's what that's about.
Rockymtntruth 9 months ago
I know that my job here on earth is not to judge and hate and enrage all who are around me or to force them to convert. I am friends with everyone from gay, straight, bi, drug users and sex addicts. The only way i can change their heart is to show love because these poor souls have been shunned and cursed at by the very people who seek Gods love but react to sinners the way we all deserve to be treated by God himself. I am no better than any of them because i admit i am a sinner
wisdomlistens20 9 months ago
I see that a path with god is a deeply personal walk and what is true for me will not identically be true for you.I see that it is ones ability to shed the inner hatred of what life has thought us that will lead to a true understanding of Gods love. it was not until i broke away from what a Pastor wanted to tell me i should think about God and found out for myself that i was truly saved. we are all interconnected and trying to say that one good person is worse than the other is wrong
wisdomlistens20 9 months ago
You cannot seperate the bible from knowing Christ, and to say this is to disconnect the bible from judging your doctrines. affirming the bible, so what, the cults do this too. its the interpretation of that bible that creates the problem. Do what? What part do you want to do? The Universal part? the denial of hell part? He leaves out the deliverance from hell part. You see, interpretation is the rub, not quoting affirmations that presuppose orthodoxy.
bloodgrace1 9 months ago
"Biblio-idolatry"??? Big word. "We worship God and not the bible!" Ok...but HOW does Bell know which God he is worshipping? And whether or not he worships HIM acceptably? "Only know Jesus and the power of His resurrection"...ok, but where do I find out about HIS atoning death and resurrection?? To downplay the scripture, while claiming to "worship God", is, perhaps, well-intentioned, but either very naive...or profoundly arrogant. God IS and does what HIS WORD says He is and does.
melodicplayer 9 months ago
oh boy...
Live7For7Today7 9 months ago
@Truthunderfire And logically speaking, if God were not bigger than and beyond total human comprehension, he would cease to be God. Any Bible college Logic, Apologetics, or Philosophy class will teach you that.
alyssastuart 9 months ago
@Truthunderfire of different belief systems are going to believe things which are true. They are going to live lifestyles which match up with the commandments of Jesus because they're smart and they desire to know God and they desire to love. As far as knowing what is part of God's "bigger"ness is concerned, it's pretty easy to tell something which is love from something which is not, something which is logical from something which is not, and something which is just from something which is not.
alyssastuart 9 months ago
@alyssastuart It's "pretty easy to tell what is love verses what it is not"? Really?? From WHOSE perspective? If same-sex couples claim, "we LOVE each other", does God endorse that definition? If a couple engages in pre-marital sex, because "they're in love", is that love? LOVE can only be defined by God's word. The scripture says, "In YOUR light, we see light".
melodicplayer 9 months ago
@Truthunderfire which give us insight into the nature of God. However, I see nothing about DNA, the process of photosynthesis, or the details of our solar system in the Bible. Does that make them untrue? No. If I find certain morals and principles in other religions which are also held by Christianity, isn't that evidence of truth's prevalence in various places? God doesn't just seek out those who are Christians; He desires to reveal himself to all and THAT, friend, is biblical. So some people
alyssastuart 9 months ago
@Truthunderfire So which denomination of Christianity is the one with which adheres to the plain, universal understanding you refer to? The whole reason for denominations is disagreement in interpretation of what the Bible says, isn't it? Yet most of those denominations are accepted as "Christianity." And anyone can disagree with an 'interpretation' as we're not dealing with FACTS. I do subscribe to the concreteness of certain things which are evident in scripture and in observable reality
alyssastuart 9 months ago
@alyssastuart So they all disagree on the entire bible? I've never heard this. I thought they had some commonalities? So I guess that means that we can all say whatever we want and it will fall under the banner of "personal interpretation"? And, as long as people have the appearance of keeping the commandments then they're christians too?
Truthunderfire21 9 months ago
@Truthunderfire21 common beliefs. All I'm saying is that there are many things which the various denominations disagree upon. I've yet to see more than one denomination that holds precisely the same beliefs, and the beliefs differ even within denominations. I don't believe it's reasonable or virtuous to 'say whatever we want' ad call it good so we can justify ourselves. I do think it's inevitable that people will understand certain parables or texts in conflicting ways.As for keeping...
alyssastuart 9 months ago
@alyssastuart Absolutely and the Bible itself has thousands of years of various groups of people who interpret various beliefs in different ways. Typically Evangelical extremists (cultists) tend to view the Bible as some kind of god. Their view of it as being this perfect book like some kind of god blinds them to the problems found within various texts. Biblical religion (Christian sects) has the capacity for great good but also the capacity to be very dangerous.
Rockymtntruth 9 months ago
@Truthunderfire21 I don't recall ever saying "they all disagree on the entire bible." And I agree that they do hold many
alyssastuart 9 months ago
@Truthunderfire21 ...the 'appearing of keeping the commandments' (whatever that means?) to be a Christian...well, a Christian is simply one who is obedient and faithful to the commandments of Christ and models their lifestyle around His. I'm not sure where I made that unclear, but it was certainly not my intention to muddy that up.
alyssastuart 9 months ago
It should also be pointed out that it is impossible to read the Bible without some kind of interpretation. It's been this way with religious texts for thousands of years. Your interpretation of "the truth of the Bible" may be different than some one else's. And let's please remember that God is much bigger than we are able to pinpoint so none of us has Him completely figured out, nor do we have all the theology figured out. Truth is bigger than on collection of books., isn't it?
alyssastuart 9 months ago
@alyssastuart If that is true then you have no basis by which to disagree with what anyone says because that is just "their own interpretation". Also, you have no basis to even call yourself a christian because to even desire to do so would require you to adhere to a plain, universal understanding of those passages making them not subject to personal interpretation.
Truthunderfire21 9 months ago
@alyssastuart For you to call God "bigger" would also require you to appeal to absolutes from scripture. The problem is that anybody could say anything about God and attribute it to "bigger", but how do we know that what they are saying about God is really part of His "bigger"ness?
Truthunderfire21 9 months ago
@Truthunderfire21 I have said nothing of the fate of people condemning others. I only pointed out their apparent ignorance and lack of understanding of what he's actually saying. Anyone who has read the book should be able to see that he DOES think Jesus is the only way to Heaven, but that it's possible for someone to love everything Jesus is without understanding or believing the right theology. Someone also misinterpreted a point about the age of accountability as support for child sacrifice.
alyssastuart 9 months ago
NEVER be a vulnerable believer....NEVER!!!!!!! This is the Emergent church...a blend of New age and a twisted spin on the Bible.....you are now warned!!!!
Den12tribe 9 months ago
I support Rob Bell
Rkcoily 9 months ago
The ignorance of the people posting on this video condemning Rob Bell is saddening. How about you just let it alone and follow God and PRAY for people who, in your infinite wisdom, have decided are preaching falsehood? Worry about yourself and stop judging other people. Let God deal with each of us as HE chooses and butt out! Love and tell truth, but stop condemning others. Not your job, folks.
alyssastuart 9 months ago
@alyssastuart I see, but it's okay for YOU to judge them right???
Truthunderfire21 9 months ago
@Truthunderfire21
whoops, looks like forgot the "21" in your username for my most recent responses to you. Apologies!
alyssastuart 9 months ago
@alyssastuart Nobody needs "infinite wisdom", they just need to read the bible and see that what Rob Bell teaches doesn't line up with it. If the bible says that Bell is condemned then others are just relaying the message. (Galatians 1)
Truthunderfire21 9 months ago
"I would rather us be the kind of community that instead of talking
endlessly about what the bible is, we would be the kind of community
where we would study it, we would read it, and then we would go do what it says."
JetSetTyler 9 months ago
It is interesting he mentioning Billy Grahan´s phrase, Being him a preacher that denied Jesus as the one Way.
u2bMODERATOR 9 months ago
@u2bMODERATOR He doesn't deny Jesus is the only way. Have you read any of his books?
shobby1989 9 months ago
@shobby1989 i just need to listen what he says . I have watched many of his videos and i confess I used to enjoy the fresh way he use to expose the faith. But he says that God would not be the God of love if he put his creation in hell. This is enough to me. It would be fantastic if he was using his talent to say the truth , but he is preaching a false Gospel . He is denying, or questioning the existence of hell , a thing that Jesus empathized about 18 times in the bible.
u2bMODERATOR 9 months ago
@u2bMODERATOR Jesus talks more about poverty than hell. If the focus of your church is about using hell as some kind of 'stick' in a carrot-and-stick game of salvation then you should be concerned.
catandtonic 9 months ago
@catandtonic Not only poverty my friend. This is the Catholic discourse . He speaks about poverty to preach mercy. But the central verses of NT is salvation and perdition . John 3:16 could say just that God gave his son and stop there, but it is completed by to all that believes in him do not PERISH . Salvation is not about salvation from hungry, is salvation from eternal death. If i talk about light the opposition is darkness, if i talk about salvation the opposite is perdition.
u2bMODERATOR 9 months ago
@shobby1989 And also, Billy Grahan denies Jesus as the only way. Rob is not speaking directly but using philosophy to flourish what is pretty exposed in the bible .
u2bMODERATOR 9 months ago
At the beginning of Love Wins Bell suggests that if a child gets an automatic ticket to heaven because they are too young to have made a decision about God - then why not kill every child before age 12? That's absurd my friends! The Bible says "thou shall not kill" and further says you DO NOT sacrifice your sons and daughters. Not too mention that would extinguish the human race with Bell's suggestion. Please read the Bible for yourself and pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob 4 wisdom.
matt3i6 9 months ago
111 dislikes? are you kidding..he said nothing wrong.
MrCogicson1 9 months ago
@MrCogicson1 Make it a 112
Ogdinthorpe 9 months ago
Go Rob Bell. I support you and your church 100%. I wish others who only wear Christianity as a nametag would realize the Love of God and stop judging. It reminds me of Jesus when he was ridiculed by the priests. Everyone saying false teacher and blasphemer, please pray and search your hearts. Are you really showing the love of Christ?
Jesus is the way the truth and the light. Only through him may we find our way to eternal life and happiness.
JeremiahLock 9 months ago 2
@JeremiahLock Odd that you tell others to stop judging yet what is it that you do right now?...You are judging. This buffon is a false teacher.
Ogdinthorpe 9 months ago
@JeremiahLock Do you believe in eternal punishment in Hell?
u2bMODERATOR 9 months ago
Jesus is our only hope? Wow... what a heretic! Let's learn what the bible says then do it? Wow... what a blasphemer! We should hang this infidel on the cross for his lies!!! ........ (Just my way of debating logic) 8)
tehsnoman 9 months ago
God wins, Bell looses!
Rob is a FALSE TEACHER...
rickgigliotti 9 months ago
@rickgigliotti it is about winning and losing? how do you KNOW Bell is a false teacher?
mtnbike88 9 months ago
@mtnbike88 Rob Bell is a false teacher because he chooses to teach lies instead of the truth of the Bible...
rickgigliotti 9 months ago
@rickgigliotti All he preaches is Jesus
shobby1989 9 months ago
@shobby1989 Which Jesus? Islam claims Jesus too, so do the Mormon's. Now right here in this vid Bell says "We affirm the Bible" then he goes on to say "The Bible is not the point" Well it says in Romans "Faith comes by hearing hearing of the Word" God told us His Word never fails. The Bible from Genesis to Revelation also warns, teaches and exposes False Teachers and it was Jesus who said "You will know them..." Matthew 7 - Also read Jude it's a very short book. Read it.
matt3i6 9 months ago
@shobby1989 Rob Bell is a false teacher who preaches against the Bible...
rickgigliotti 9 months ago
@rickgigliotti He preaches against the Bible with the Bible? That don't make no sense. What do you think will happen to him if he is a False teacher?
shobby1989 9 months ago
Straw man defence. I do not believe people are worried about you worshiping the bible or living too much like Christ, rather that you (Bell) uses words like 'Hell' and assign a new vague definition.
amdgepr 9 months ago
So Bell has been preaching his emergent universalism fallacy leading his followers down the broad path with the rest of the world that do not want the real God and the true Christ. Jesus is the only way. So, it is not unexpected that bell's book rises in the charts as the world eats up a false universalism theology. So, his issue now is not just a bad reputation but an eternity in Hell because there is greater condemnation for those that alter God's Word.Pray for him.
summa1129 9 months ago
"We do not worship the Bible, we worship God." --Rob Bell in this video
The whole of Reformed thought is that the Bible is given to us to be the ultimate authority. It is "worshipped" because it is what sets our hearts after the desires of Christ.
nalgener 9 months ago
@nalgener ...so you basically affirm that you worship the Bible?
Wow...
Hrugnir 9 months ago
@Hrugnir
If I say "I want to love and understand my Bible like I love and understand my God" how is that any different?
nalgener 9 months ago
@nalgener
Well...
That's like saying that you love the letters from your wife in the same way you love your actual wife.
One love is for an object through which you experience or take part of the person.
The other love is for the actual person.
One thing is created, one thing is uncreated.
The Bible is not God Incarnate, Jesus is.
Yes, God has spoken through and often speaks through the Bible.
The Bible is not in itself "divine".
It's infallible testimony to a relationship with a living God!
Hrugnir 9 months ago