I'm not going to waste my money on the book you are reading. I have just one question about it. What are the sources? Is this book you are advocating just the rantings of a radical?
Just like gun control, I need to see real study's and research done on "Pornography causing sexual abuse". Gun control CAUSES crime, I rather expect it is the same with censoring porn.
I guess she believes that pornography is only "male entertainment". Don't kid yourself. Many women watch pornography. It is primarily male, buy not all.
@nuclearnight That was not my point at all. I was just pointing out that porn is not only male entertainment. That's all. Your point is unrelated. I was just commenting on your assumption that women don't consume porn. Thanks for responding so fast. Wow you are good.
Its because she doesn't like people to be happy, relax, and enjoy themselves. She wants everyone to be as miserable as she is, just because "ITS NOT FAIR" or some other moronic reasoning.
Litigation against pornographers, in the sense of suing a past employer for harm done, SEEMS consistent within the existing system.
Of course, this whole game is a racket. Perhaps everybody should be allowed to sue their former employers for any form of duress or degradation they perceive they suffered under said employer?
Really, there's little to do but work to dismantle the whole thing. For the logical end of equitable litigation of this sort would be the end of capitalism.
All of the "rights" talk makes me dizzy. I shelf such notions next to other essentially religious ideas. Admitting one is speaking in generalizations about human aspiration would be preferable, IMHO.
Trying to solve select problems with one form of prohibition or another is pointless. If anything, much of said prohibition against the sex trade only worsens conditions, while doing nothing really to eliminate it.
End wage slavery, and most of the "sex trade" will evaporate.
You should really watch some behind-the-scenes footage from a porn video, you'd see that it's normal people going to their job, it's remarkably unremarkable. Also watch some interviews with porn actors, like on CNBC's Porn: Business of Pleasure special.
Every time I hear the word "consensual" from the opposing side of the argument, it rings a little more hollow every time.
And to be honest, I don't really know for sure *how* I feel about porn and prostitution, maybe there are times when it's ok and times when it's not, but that word "consensual" doesn't really "cover" everything that's wrong with it--if you get what I'm saying.
How is me whacking off in my bedroom to some chick who is a well paid and willing participant in a porn video, violating your rights? I never sexual abused anyone and most men who look at porn (which is just about every man) doesn't sexually abuse women.
And sorry, but porn itself is not abuse. How is something that is 100% consensual abuse?
Its because she doesn't like people to be happy, relax, and enjoy themselves. She wants everyone to be as miserable as she is, just because "ITS NOT FAIR" or some other moronic reasoning.
Where is the fundamental right of women to voluntarily engage in videographed sexual activity in exchange for money? How can you have an objection to someone choosing to take part in a porno? It's just sickening that you would take away women's rights for the sake of your distaste for porn. And you call yourself a feminist.
I find it disgusting that someone who is intelligent still isn't listening to anything I'm advocating or saying. Just using the same old "you're trying to take away women's rights!" BS. I've NEVER advocated banning pornography or stopping people from making it, its a lot deeper than that.
Well, what's the point in objecting to it? People will not stop making it, selling it and buying it.
I mean, the anarchists aim to abolish the state, so called 'pro-lifers' try to outlaw abortions, etc. I took it as a given that people making Youtube videos against porn would have some kind of agenda.
I object to it because its misogynistic and is part of a culture that objectifies women. I object to it because its propagandistic. I object to it because of the links between viewing pornography and desensitization to sexual violence and violations.
I am trying to raise awareness and spread education so that as a society we can become healthier in regards to sexuality and heal the wounds of thousands of years of woman hating.
That's fine but if you don't mind I'll be watching porn tonight, as I do often, and the next day I shall go back to being nice and friendly to women, treating them as equals, etc.
I only really objected because I thought you were trying to take away freedoms, which is something I heavily dislike.
I don't believe you can truly respect women if you watch pornography, but keep deluding yourself. I won't be taking your precious "freedom" to masturbate to male-supremacist imagery away.
I tend to watch amateur actually because it's more intimate and less staged and faked. It doesn't matter whether you believe I respect women because I do and I know I do. The fact that I masturbate to sexually stimulating videos affects not my attitude towards women in real life. And as far as closed-quoting the word freedom goes- yes, it is a freedom.
We all know terrible shit happens, but I think you protest too much. The fact is many if not a majority of women do not respect themselves. Its like saying cheeseburgers are evil and you can't truly respect yourself if you eat one. The depressed fat person says they are for obvious reasons while others love them. So is the cheeseburger the evil one here or the obese who can't deal with their eating and exercise habits? Should we start a anti-cheeseburger campaign in support of the obese?
I think the points I laid out in my pornography video are still valid, they represent your position accurately, and they have yet to be addressed. I don't recall there being much pornography in ancient Rome, yet I'm willing to bet there was far more sexual abuse per capita.
You don't hold the position that "degrading" types of pornography should not be allowed to make any profit? I could've sworn thats what you yourself said.
"Pornography which is racist cannot be sold for a profit . . . Also pornography which depicts violence and humiliation . . . and over-sexualizes children . . . you can't sell it for a profit" - Pornography: Why and how it should be opposed
Wouldn't you agree that such statements at the very least imply that you are not as opposed to profit making from non-racist, nonviolent, non-humiliating, non-child-sexualizing pornography? I understand that you are a marxist and are against all profits.
Saying that Marxists are against 'profit' is actually far too vague and quite misleading. If you don't take the time to fully study and understand opposing views to your own you risk losing respect and support from those who you are having such discussions with. I'm familiar with your videos and by and large you make some good points, but let's get beyond 'Marxism' as a word intended to scare Americans in the 1950s (and modern Fox fans) and actually try and learn more about these issues. Thanks.
I understand it is a risk of over generalizing to make any generalization. But I think I'm pretty safe in thinking that marxism isn't the biggest fan of capitalism. :) Besides, I didn't necessarily make the statement that marxism was against all profits, but that nuclearnight in specific was; which she very much affirmed in her comment just above this.
I saw what you meant to say initially, but because of a clumsy turn of phrase what you said was 'Marxists hate profit' or words to that effect, which of course isn't addressing the real issue because it isn't the simple fact that people make money out of capitlism that offends Marxists specifically, but rather the means used to underpin such a system and its reprocussions. Anyhow, sorry for diverting your attention away from the interesting discussions you've been having with nuclearnight.
But it seems that you are against the profit making of certain types of pornography in particular. If you think everything else shouldn't be allowed to make a profit as well as degrading pornography, then really you're not advocating any kind of imposition upon degrading pornography at all, are you?
I am slowly working my way through that book,which I find very interesting and informative. However I always found Dworkin to be a gender hater / hatemonger. That is my opinion. As always I find your videos to be heartfelt and educational. Thank You for what you do, and don't stop !
Don't you think that dealing with porn in a new era may also mean letting go of ideas of people like Dworkin? There's just too many factors which previously didn't exist. There's amateur sites of couples porn. Girls who have set up their own webpages themselves and do webcam shows. etc. Sure the "industry" is in control of the majority, but that doesn't mean there aren't varibles (no pun intended :) which also need to be taken into consideration for the 21st century.
No I don't think so, we need to be versed with the work she and MacKinnon did and be very versed in it. We have new things to deal with obviously but their work is a bedrock that all antipornography activists should be familiar with.
There is something I don't understand... Wouldn't it be far more reasonable to assume that people are naturally violent and prone to sexual experementation rather than saying that the pornography itself creates these desires in a persons subconcious?Are you just anti-rape/etc porn or do you dislike actions such as spanking/etc? I'm trying to understand this.
It would seem then that the majority of pornography consumers are viewing material which could be considered "hardcore". I don't consider playboy or Hustler to be "softcore" or "erotica" they clearly fall under the category of pornography, not erotica.
Why do you say that erotica by definition turns the subject into an object?
Why do I say erotica turns the subject, into an object?
Well, if you buy porn, it's objectifying the subjects involved, so why wouldn't the purchase of erotica do the same? You're paying money, for someones dignity, and so you can use them.
That is true, much of my disgust with what pornography is in our society is due to the capitalist aspect of it and how the beings involved are commodities to be bought and sold.
I suppose erotica brings up the term eros to me, which comes from the word for love.
Well self masturbation, is a type of porn. So if I decide to turn on a camera and record myself masturbating, for no profit, why shouldn't be allowed to do so.
Who says you can't. This is not relevant to the horrid issues in this industry and you know it you're just spouting babble to make this seem like some complicated issue. All we see is your character in this argument.
No its called specification of what you are trying to ban. If I said let's ban all drugs, what kind of drugs? Illegal, prescription, what it needs verification with such a broad term.
So is it an attempt of trying to ban commercial porn, amateur porn, self masturbation. If you want to ban something its important to state what parts of that thing you will ban. Because porn is by definition "the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement"
I understand the drug analogy, but she's not writing legislation, she's reasoning with you, and how could anyone stop you from watching yourself masturbate anyway? So a little realism would be nice. It seems like a childish tactic. You can imagine what she has to put up with, so...
How we you remove pornography, since just like drugs being illegalized, I doubt that would help... hell it might worsen it, just as it has with drugs.
Honestly, I agree, however I find the removal of pornography, as attacking the problem of fire, with gasoline, all it will do, is create porn gangs and rape squads...
I think the solution, is more in line with a trans-humanist philosophy, wherein that either culturally move past it, or modify people away from it.
Education is the key to making pornography in itself grotesque form, obsolete. It is a question of history and where does pornography stem from, it was not liberate the woman, not by any means. With the long history of patriarchal property hording in western society, it must be shown how the society objectifies the woman in order to re humanize her.
I agree, however, if we're talking about complete removal of pornography, that goes deeper than just women being objectified, since porn has existed since the dawn of man... the first sculpture found was that of Venus, which was a plump women, who at that time would be considered sexy...
So, the question really becomes about changing the male sex drive, and how to do that, without negative effects...
Women being objectified, inflates the over-sexuality of men... but isn't the cause
True, John Berger in his Essays "Ways of Seeing," go over the linage of the ways of seeing women quite effectively. I don't think we are going take the male sex drive away and i don't think the total eradication of porn is going to be possible, but we must move it away from the direction of male dominating female/ male... The male domination bias must be done way with, thats what we must address.
But then again, I'm a pretty enthusiastic transhumanist, who looks forward to a future, where gender doesn't exists, children are born out of artificial wombs, and the sex drive is replaced with the underlying bonding drive... so love will be stronger, but sex won't be needed...
But that's just my kooky idea, since unlike races, which will meld together, forcing racism to go away, sex will stay a separator, unless we intervene.
I don't think its fair to conflate the venus sculptures with pornography.
I'm not even sure we know that it was erotica, which I view differently than pornography.
Pornography: material that combines sex and/or the exposure of genitals with abuse or degradation in a manner that appears to endorse, encourage, or condone such behavior.
Erotica:
sexually suggestive or arousing material that is free of sexism, racism and homophobia. Respectful of all beings portrayed.
Your definition of pornography, seems more in line with hard core porn...
Honestly, the true difference between the 2 words is simple, erotica is without sex, or sexual actions, and porn is with sex, or sexual actions.
I would say, that porn and erotica, were once one and the same, however that's besides the point that even erotica, by definition, turn the subject, into an object...
I didn't say anywhere that erotica could not contain sex and still be under the label erotica. It must show respect for the beings involved to be considered erotica, which pornography lacks, which is why I'm antipornography and not anti-sex on camera.
i don't think thats a good definition of pornography. i would say pronography would be material that contains exposure of genitals and filming of sexual acts and naked bodies. i don't think degradations is a requirement for something to be pornographic.
So men will create rape squads if they can't see porn? What is wrong with men, can you please answer me this question? What is this power that porn has to prevent rape gangs, but has no power to cause rape? That seems odd, like it can only cause good and not bad, that doesn't even ring true statistically but are men defective that they hurt and feel no empathy toward other sentient creatures? What can we do? Are they responsible for their behavior or can we blame lack of porn?
Well, at look at the catholic church, and what porn being "outlawed" has done to their priests... raping children!
Male sexuality is often akin to something which builds up, and needs a release. Currently porn is a release, which also objectifies women... so, the issue is, relieving that build up, without objectification.
So men are not responsible for their lack of empathy for other sentient creatures- and a lack of pornography causes priests to molest little boys? Wow... you're a genius.
Well, if you're trying to be a condesending prick, oppose to changing peoples mind... then closing a statement with you're a genius is the best way to go about that. However, if you're trying to persuade someone, one of the most moronic tactics you can use is insult...
Ps, I was being intentionally hypocritical with the moronic statement :P
The reason I threw in the genius remark was that you're arguing from shallow character. You refuse to think about this very deeply and you're subjecting us to that. Look at the powers you're assigning pornography, it has the power to change men so drastically but only for the better. It's really more than a facepalm. I mean porn keeps men from forming rape squads? Clearly men are defective in their empathy for other sentient creatures and are sociopaths.
How arrogant must you be, to assume that you know what someone else has thought about
I'll have you know that I've changed from being completely for porn, to being against it whilst trying to figure out a solution, to problems that I see.
As for men being without empathy, I don't think that at all, however, sexually deprived creatures have been shown to take on erratic, and heartless behavior, to relieve that tension, so it's less men, and more sex.
Well, your arguments to me seem very shallow and knee jerk, that's all. You really are making men sound like they are a danger to our existence. If females could find a way to reproduce without them, would the world be better off? Men seem to keep making the case that they are a defective species.And I'm tired of hearing about the magical powers of porn and how men are just like robots that you can't stop unless you provide the main base with magical porn.Sorry about the bad vibes you're getting
I like the idea of bringing genders closer together, too. You do understand that the crimes you're talking about with men are huge and depraved, yeah? People have their problems, but I'm hearing from men some very disturbing things about their nature. My suspicions are they can do better and that's just part of ghastly argumentation to justify pleasure and dominance, not that I'm charging you with that personally...
Hmm... that's interesting though, since the idea of men putting their gender down, whilst still claiming dominance...
Anyways, I see that allot of the problems we have, could be fixed with social engineering, and redefining what education is.
Oh, and another semi inherent male trait, is the shortness of the action inhibitors in the male brain. It's been shown, that due to male testosterone levels, the brain develops fewer action inhibitor layers.
Well, they don't think they're putting themselves down, they think they're making excuses that we need to accept without going...WHTF? I mean the way you guys describe yourselves sometimes, we may want to write a very serious book that sounds like a joke at first, but a serious look on getting men out of existence and developing technology for a female only world.
lol... Well I'm all for modifying myself to become more feminine, even though my friends already say I act like a flaming gay guy sometimes XD
But in all honesty, pregnancy and natural birth are so horrifically archaic, and yet they're praised.
I'm a transhumanist, who hopes for a future with artificial wombs, so the population would be stable, and women wouldn't be held back during their careers by child bearing... I could go on for pages and pages, but 500 word limits get in the way ^=^
The thing I worry about with that is the reducing of human development for an economic system. I could barf when I hear the word "career" there is nothing more important than making sure my boys don't grow up to be shallow assholes. Nothing. I mean that's the root of everything and our shallow love for the rat race gets in the way. If you're not subbed to NonUnionLabor I suggest him,he's a Eugenecist He's left a channel comment for me, right on my page. You might already be subbed but he's great
Oh, when I said career, I fucked up... I was meaning more life's passion...
I'm not a career guy, I find my passion in life, is making programs, which I let people download for free... and how can you make a career out of that XD
NonUnionLabor?
Hmm, well I don't like the idea of killing the world into improvement, I think we should guild it, through our children.
Unless the word Eugenecist means something different now XD
lol, yeah, it does mean something different now, it's dovetailing with transhumanism. :D I am probably not on board with it, but I recommend this guy because he has the same concerns as you and attitude. There's an eclectic group there, at least look at his channel, I would say.
Honestly though, I despise the names communist and Eugenicist, why, well because they've taken a concept, and ensured a negative response form at least 90% of the people you talk to...
it seams eugenic thinking is having a comeback it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. i think communist eugenics isn't a bad idea. transhumanism is making man into a new species. you could say its an evolutionary step, but it won't be human and if you chose your kids genes, he won't really be your kid as much as he would if he had only your and her/his mothers genes. i can see the advantages, but i don't think its a good idea and am very against it.
The answer is that pornography does not prevent rape, it actually desensitizes men to the act of rape and portrays women as though they enjoy being raped.
The most vile femicidal maniacs and rapists have linked much of their actions to what they saw and consumed in pornography.
Yes, I'm arguing against the argument here, it makes no sense without those stats. Like that principalian dude that wants people to take responsibility and not blame porn, but we can blame a LACK of these services, how convenient. It's magic how these things can only cause good and never bad.
What pornos have you been watching? Crime-watch reconstructions don't count.
Mainstream porn depicts women as enjoying sex, it also does the same for men. I've not seen any that show women shouting "get the fuck off me you psycho", down a dark alley, nor do they show women enjoying rape.
Indeed violent sex pornography is already harshly forbidden in many countries, from what I know.
Then somewhere there are crazy people not only making movies depicting violent sex, but there are snuff movies where they kill people or pedophilic ones too, but this is not a cultural issue, we are in outright criminal behaviour in this case.
Instead mainstream pornopgraphy is made by willing women making a lot of $ out of that. Our pornstar, Ilona Staller became a Representative in parliament.
the only approach that would work i think would be something like the maoist approach to dealing with the rampant opium addiction in china after they came to power.
I'm not going to waste my money on the book you are reading. I have just one question about it. What are the sources? Is this book you are advocating just the rantings of a radical?
Just like gun control, I need to see real study's and research done on "Pornography causing sexual abuse". Gun control CAUSES crime, I rather expect it is the same with censoring porn.
SpamSpamNEggs 2 years ago
The explosion of amateur porn is a disputation of such much anti-porn rhetoric.
AND must porn by far- is not abusive. It's people having sex.
I'm gonna jack of latter to a wonderful free site...
S2Cents 2 years ago
I guess she believes that pornography is only "male entertainment". Don't kid yourself. Many women watch pornography. It is primarily male, buy not all.
footballrockscs2 2 years ago
@footballrockscs2
Women buying into something does not negate the harm it does to women.
nuclearnight 2 years ago
Comment removed
infectingthecrypts 2 years ago
@nuclearnight That was not my point at all. I was just pointing out that porn is not only male entertainment. That's all. Your point is unrelated. I was just commenting on your assumption that women don't consume porn. Thanks for responding so fast. Wow you are good.
footballrockscs2 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Its because she doesn't like people to be happy, relax, and enjoy themselves. She wants everyone to be as miserable as she is, just because "ITS NOT FAIR" or some other moronic reasoning.
antiqueIens 2 years ago
Comment removed
infectingthecrypts 2 years ago 3
@infectingthecrypts I agree!
footballrockscs2 2 years ago
As long as everyone involved in pornography is a willing participant. You are not violating anybodies rights.
Also it is censorship.
danteslight 2 years ago
God damn, you really have an unhealthy relationship with sex. I hope you recover in time and get comfortable with yourself again.
seehowirock 2 years ago 2
Three words: Pornography Is Art!
214TrueBlue 2 years ago 2
Litigation against pornographers, in the sense of suing a past employer for harm done, SEEMS consistent within the existing system.
Of course, this whole game is a racket. Perhaps everybody should be allowed to sue their former employers for any form of duress or degradation they perceive they suffered under said employer?
Really, there's little to do but work to dismantle the whole thing. For the logical end of equitable litigation of this sort would be the end of capitalism.
RadicalSolutions 2 years ago
All of the "rights" talk makes me dizzy. I shelf such notions next to other essentially religious ideas. Admitting one is speaking in generalizations about human aspiration would be preferable, IMHO.
Trying to solve select problems with one form of prohibition or another is pointless. If anything, much of said prohibition against the sex trade only worsens conditions, while doing nothing really to eliminate it.
End wage slavery, and most of the "sex trade" will evaporate.
RadicalSolutions 2 years ago
You should really watch some behind-the-scenes footage from a porn video, you'd see that it's normal people going to their job, it's remarkably unremarkable. Also watch some interviews with porn actors, like on CNBC's Porn: Business of Pleasure special.
dkzim3 2 years ago
Every time I hear the word "consensual" from the opposing side of the argument, it rings a little more hollow every time.
And to be honest, I don't really know for sure *how* I feel about porn and prostitution, maybe there are times when it's ok and times when it's not, but that word "consensual" doesn't really "cover" everything that's wrong with it--if you get what I'm saying.
TheAgentChaos 2 years ago
Oh no! Men are looking at porn! Whaaa!
How is me whacking off in my bedroom to some chick who is a well paid and willing participant in a porn video, violating your rights? I never sexual abused anyone and most men who look at porn (which is just about every man) doesn't sexually abuse women.
And sorry, but porn itself is not abuse. How is something that is 100% consensual abuse?
fathead8489 2 years ago
Its because she doesn't like people to be happy, relax, and enjoy themselves. She wants everyone to be as miserable as she is, just because "ITS NOT FAIR" or some other moronic reasoning.
Rozzrocks666 2 years ago
it's obama's fault
jvforever72 2 years ago
"Why are the fundamental rights of women...?".
Where is the fundamental right of women to voluntarily engage in videographed sexual activity in exchange for money? How can you have an objection to someone choosing to take part in a porno? It's just sickening that you would take away women's rights for the sake of your distaste for porn. And you call yourself a feminist.
anglaismoyen 2 years ago
@anglaismoyen
I find it disgusting that someone who is intelligent still isn't listening to anything I'm advocating or saying. Just using the same old "you're trying to take away women's rights!" BS. I've NEVER advocated banning pornography or stopping people from making it, its a lot deeper than that.
nuclearnight 2 years ago
Well, what's the point in objecting to it? People will not stop making it, selling it and buying it.
I mean, the anarchists aim to abolish the state, so called 'pro-lifers' try to outlaw abortions, etc. I took it as a given that people making Youtube videos against porn would have some kind of agenda.
anglaismoyen 2 years ago
@anglaismoyen
I object to it because its misogynistic and is part of a culture that objectifies women. I object to it because its propagandistic. I object to it because of the links between viewing pornography and desensitization to sexual violence and violations.
I am trying to raise awareness and spread education so that as a society we can become healthier in regards to sexuality and heal the wounds of thousands of years of woman hating.
nuclearnight 2 years ago
Hmm...
That's fine but if you don't mind I'll be watching porn tonight, as I do often, and the next day I shall go back to being nice and friendly to women, treating them as equals, etc.
I only really objected because I thought you were trying to take away freedoms, which is something I heavily dislike.
anglaismoyen 2 years ago
@anglaismoyen
I don't believe you can truly respect women if you watch pornography, but keep deluding yourself. I won't be taking your precious "freedom" to masturbate to male-supremacist imagery away.
nuclearnight 2 years ago
I tend to watch amateur actually because it's more intimate and less staged and faked. It doesn't matter whether you believe I respect women because I do and I know I do. The fact that I masturbate to sexually stimulating videos affects not my attitude towards women in real life. And as far as closed-quoting the word freedom goes- yes, it is a freedom.
anglaismoyen 2 years ago
We all know terrible shit happens, but I think you protest too much. The fact is many if not a majority of women do not respect themselves. Its like saying cheeseburgers are evil and you can't truly respect yourself if you eat one. The depressed fat person says they are for obvious reasons while others love them. So is the cheeseburger the evil one here or the obese who can't deal with their eating and exercise habits? Should we start a anti-cheeseburger campaign in support of the obese?
coffeenuts44 2 years ago
Rape me. Rape me my friend.
AgainstAllGods 2 years ago
I think the points I laid out in my pornography video are still valid, they represent your position accurately, and they have yet to be addressed. I don't recall there being much pornography in ancient Rome, yet I'm willing to bet there was far more sexual abuse per capita.
JacobSpinney 2 years ago
@JacobSpinney
If I thought your video was in any way representative of my positions I would have addressed the points, wouldn't I?
nuclearnight 2 years ago
You don't hold the position that "degrading" types of pornography should not be allowed to make any profit? I could've sworn thats what you yourself said.
JacobSpinney 2 years ago
@JacobSpinney
I don't think anything should be allowed to make profit Jacob Spinney.
nuclearnight 2 years ago
"Pornography which is racist cannot be sold for a profit . . . Also pornography which depicts violence and humiliation . . . and over-sexualizes children . . . you can't sell it for a profit" - Pornography: Why and how it should be opposed
Wouldn't you agree that such statements at the very least imply that you are not as opposed to profit making from non-racist, nonviolent, non-humiliating, non-child-sexualizing pornography? I understand that you are a marxist and are against all profits.
JacobSpinney 2 years ago
Saying that Marxists are against 'profit' is actually far too vague and quite misleading. If you don't take the time to fully study and understand opposing views to your own you risk losing respect and support from those who you are having such discussions with. I'm familiar with your videos and by and large you make some good points, but let's get beyond 'Marxism' as a word intended to scare Americans in the 1950s (and modern Fox fans) and actually try and learn more about these issues. Thanks.
cheerlessdarkndeadly 2 years ago
I understand it is a risk of over generalizing to make any generalization. But I think I'm pretty safe in thinking that marxism isn't the biggest fan of capitalism. :) Besides, I didn't necessarily make the statement that marxism was against all profits, but that nuclearnight in specific was; which she very much affirmed in her comment just above this.
JacobSpinney 2 years ago
I saw what you meant to say initially, but because of a clumsy turn of phrase what you said was 'Marxists hate profit' or words to that effect, which of course isn't addressing the real issue because it isn't the simple fact that people make money out of capitlism that offends Marxists specifically, but rather the means used to underpin such a system and its reprocussions. Anyhow, sorry for diverting your attention away from the interesting discussions you've been having with nuclearnight.
cheerlessdarkndeadly 2 years ago
But it seems that you are against the profit making of certain types of pornography in particular. If you think everything else shouldn't be allowed to make a profit as well as degrading pornography, then really you're not advocating any kind of imposition upon degrading pornography at all, are you?
JacobSpinney 2 years ago
I am slowly working my way through that book,which I find very interesting and informative. However I always found Dworkin to be a gender hater / hatemonger. That is my opinion. As always I find your videos to be heartfelt and educational. Thank You for what you do, and don't stop !
moonknightify 2 years ago
@moonknightify,
Dworkin is a screwball. she has real issues.
MensRifleAssociation 2 years ago
@moonknightify
I haven't read anything hateful by her thus far.
nuclearnight 2 years ago
Don't you think that dealing with porn in a new era may also mean letting go of ideas of people like Dworkin? There's just too many factors which previously didn't exist. There's amateur sites of couples porn. Girls who have set up their own webpages themselves and do webcam shows. etc. Sure the "industry" is in control of the majority, but that doesn't mean there aren't varibles (no pun intended :) which also need to be taken into consideration for the 21st century.
PotheadPundit 2 years ago
@PotheadPundit
No I don't think so, we need to be versed with the work she and MacKinnon did and be very versed in it. We have new things to deal with obviously but their work is a bedrock that all antipornography activists should be familiar with.
nuclearnight 2 years ago
There is something I don't understand... Wouldn't it be far more reasonable to assume that people are naturally violent and prone to sexual experementation rather than saying that the pornography itself creates these desires in a persons subconcious?Are you just anti-rape/etc porn or do you dislike actions such as spanking/etc? I'm trying to understand this.
Gunriffun9mm 2 years ago 2
I'm sorry you had to see that Nuke, considering your condition.
AgainstAllGods 2 years ago
You sure it wasn't a boy? Cus that's what the news says lol.
anthonzi 2 years ago
LOL! zomg! SO FUNNY!
It was a woman where I was, unless there was more than one jumper.
nuclearnight 2 years ago
@TheReasonWhyGuy
It would seem then that the majority of pornography consumers are viewing material which could be considered "hardcore". I don't consider playboy or Hustler to be "softcore" or "erotica" they clearly fall under the category of pornography, not erotica.
Why do you say that erotica by definition turns the subject into an object?
nuclearnight 2 years ago
Why do I say erotica turns the subject, into an object?
Well, if you buy porn, it's objectifying the subjects involved, so why wouldn't the purchase of erotica do the same? You're paying money, for someones dignity, and so you can use them.
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
That is true, much of my disgust with what pornography is in our society is due to the capitalist aspect of it and how the beings involved are commodities to be bought and sold.
I suppose erotica brings up the term eros to me, which comes from the word for love.
nuclearnight 2 years ago
My question what about amateur porn? What about male homosexual porn? What about self masturbation videos?
SuperTrooper107 2 years ago
@SuperTrooper107
What about them? Why don't you look into the male homosexual pornography industry and see just how destructive it is to the people involved?
nuclearnight 2 years ago
Yes it has problems, But what about recording self masturbation?
SuperTrooper107 2 years ago
@SuperTrooper107
That would depend on the content, I'm unsure why you're bringing these things up, it strikes me that you're trying to distract from the main issue.
nuclearnight 2 years ago
Well self masturbation, is a type of porn. So if I decide to turn on a camera and record myself masturbating, for no profit, why shouldn't be allowed to do so.
SuperTrooper107 2 years ago
Who says you can't. This is not relevant to the horrid issues in this industry and you know it you're just spouting babble to make this seem like some complicated issue. All we see is your character in this argument.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
No its called specification of what you are trying to ban. If I said let's ban all drugs, what kind of drugs? Illegal, prescription, what it needs verification with such a broad term.
So is it an attempt of trying to ban commercial porn, amateur porn, self masturbation. If you want to ban something its important to state what parts of that thing you will ban. Because porn is by definition "the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement"
SuperTrooper107 2 years ago
I understand the drug analogy, but she's not writing legislation, she's reasoning with you, and how could anyone stop you from watching yourself masturbate anyway? So a little realism would be nice. It seems like a childish tactic. You can imagine what she has to put up with, so...
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
Both you and her are avoiding the question, FACT. Why because if you answer it you will have to contradict yourselves. KTHXBAI
SuperTrooper107 2 years ago
How we you remove pornography, since just like drugs being illegalized, I doubt that would help... hell it might worsen it, just as it has with drugs.
Honestly, I agree, however I find the removal of pornography, as attacking the problem of fire, with gasoline, all it will do, is create porn gangs and rape squads...
I think the solution, is more in line with a trans-humanist philosophy, wherein that either culturally move past it, or modify people away from it.
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
Education is the key to making pornography in itself grotesque form, obsolete. It is a question of history and where does pornography stem from, it was not liberate the woman, not by any means. With the long history of patriarchal property hording in western society, it must be shown how the society objectifies the woman in order to re humanize her.
Charles0in0charge 2 years ago 3
I agree, however, if we're talking about complete removal of pornography, that goes deeper than just women being objectified, since porn has existed since the dawn of man... the first sculpture found was that of Venus, which was a plump women, who at that time would be considered sexy...
So, the question really becomes about changing the male sex drive, and how to do that, without negative effects...
Women being objectified, inflates the over-sexuality of men... but isn't the cause
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
True, John Berger in his Essays "Ways of Seeing," go over the linage of the ways of seeing women quite effectively. I don't think we are going take the male sex drive away and i don't think the total eradication of porn is going to be possible, but we must move it away from the direction of male dominating female/ male... The male domination bias must be done way with, thats what we must address.
Charles0in0charge 2 years ago
Well, perhaps...
But then again, I'm a pretty enthusiastic transhumanist, who looks forward to a future, where gender doesn't exists, children are born out of artificial wombs, and the sex drive is replaced with the underlying bonding drive... so love will be stronger, but sex won't be needed...
But that's just my kooky idea, since unlike races, which will meld together, forcing racism to go away, sex will stay a separator, unless we intervene.
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
@TheReasonWhyGuy
I don't think its fair to conflate the venus sculptures with pornography.
I'm not even sure we know that it was erotica, which I view differently than pornography.
Pornography: material that combines sex and/or the exposure of genitals with abuse or degradation in a manner that appears to endorse, encourage, or condone such behavior.
Erotica:
sexually suggestive or arousing material that is free of sexism, racism and homophobia. Respectful of all beings portrayed.
nuclearnight 2 years ago
Your definition of pornography, seems more in line with hard core porn...
Honestly, the true difference between the 2 words is simple, erotica is without sex, or sexual actions, and porn is with sex, or sexual actions.
I would say, that porn and erotica, were once one and the same, however that's besides the point that even erotica, by definition, turn the subject, into an object...
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
I didn't say anywhere that erotica could not contain sex and still be under the label erotica. It must show respect for the beings involved to be considered erotica, which pornography lacks, which is why I'm antipornography and not anti-sex on camera.
nuclearnight 2 years ago
No, I defined erotica as being without sexual acts...
It's better than having now word for erotic art without sex...
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
i don't think thats a good definition of pornography. i would say pronography would be material that contains exposure of genitals and filming of sexual acts and naked bodies. i don't think degradations is a requirement for something to be pornographic.
TheVikingNinja 2 years ago
@TheVikingNinja
I do believe degradation is an inherent part of pornography, which is why I'm antipornography.
nuclearnight 2 years ago
So men will create rape squads if they can't see porn? What is wrong with men, can you please answer me this question? What is this power that porn has to prevent rape gangs, but has no power to cause rape? That seems odd, like it can only cause good and not bad, that doesn't even ring true statistically but are men defective that they hurt and feel no empathy toward other sentient creatures? What can we do? Are they responsible for their behavior or can we blame lack of porn?
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
Well, at look at the catholic church, and what porn being "outlawed" has done to their priests... raping children!
Male sexuality is often akin to something which builds up, and needs a release. Currently porn is a release, which also objectifies women... so, the issue is, relieving that build up, without objectification.
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
So men are not responsible for their lack of empathy for other sentient creatures- and a lack of pornography causes priests to molest little boys? Wow... you're a genius.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
Well, if you're trying to be a condesending prick, oppose to changing peoples mind... then closing a statement with you're a genius is the best way to go about that. However, if you're trying to persuade someone, one of the most moronic tactics you can use is insult...
Ps, I was being intentionally hypocritical with the moronic statement :P
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
The reason I threw in the genius remark was that you're arguing from shallow character. You refuse to think about this very deeply and you're subjecting us to that. Look at the powers you're assigning pornography, it has the power to change men so drastically but only for the better. It's really more than a facepalm. I mean porn keeps men from forming rape squads? Clearly men are defective in their empathy for other sentient creatures and are sociopaths.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
"You refuse to think about this very deeply"
How arrogant must you be, to assume that you know what someone else has thought about
I'll have you know that I've changed from being completely for porn, to being against it whilst trying to figure out a solution, to problems that I see.
As for men being without empathy, I don't think that at all, however, sexually deprived creatures have been shown to take on erratic, and heartless behavior, to relieve that tension, so it's less men, and more sex.
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
Well, your arguments to me seem very shallow and knee jerk, that's all. You really are making men sound like they are a danger to our existence. If females could find a way to reproduce without them, would the world be better off? Men seem to keep making the case that they are a defective species.And I'm tired of hearing about the magical powers of porn and how men are just like robots that you can't stop unless you provide the main base with magical porn.Sorry about the bad vibes you're getting
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
Well, when your views change often, people seem to think you haven't thought them through...
Just because I haven't sat on an opinion for year, making up excuses for it, doesn't mean I'm thoughtless.
As for men being defective, I might argue that both genders have semi inherent problems...
Men are more likely to be risk takers, which is both good and bad, but it's mainly bad because of how severely overpowered it is in men.
I like the idea, of bringing the genders closer together :)
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
I like the idea of bringing genders closer together, too. You do understand that the crimes you're talking about with men are huge and depraved, yeah? People have their problems, but I'm hearing from men some very disturbing things about their nature. My suspicions are they can do better and that's just part of ghastly argumentation to justify pleasure and dominance, not that I'm charging you with that personally...
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
Hmm... that's interesting though, since the idea of men putting their gender down, whilst still claiming dominance...
Anyways, I see that allot of the problems we have, could be fixed with social engineering, and redefining what education is.
Oh, and another semi inherent male trait, is the shortness of the action inhibitors in the male brain. It's been shown, that due to male testosterone levels, the brain develops fewer action inhibitor layers.
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
Well, they don't think they're putting themselves down, they think they're making excuses that we need to accept without going...WHTF? I mean the way you guys describe yourselves sometimes, we may want to write a very serious book that sounds like a joke at first, but a serious look on getting men out of existence and developing technology for a female only world.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
lol... Well I'm all for modifying myself to become more feminine, even though my friends already say I act like a flaming gay guy sometimes XD
But in all honesty, pregnancy and natural birth are so horrifically archaic, and yet they're praised.
I'm a transhumanist, who hopes for a future with artificial wombs, so the population would be stable, and women wouldn't be held back during their careers by child bearing... I could go on for pages and pages, but 500 word limits get in the way ^=^
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
The thing I worry about with that is the reducing of human development for an economic system. I could barf when I hear the word "career" there is nothing more important than making sure my boys don't grow up to be shallow assholes. Nothing. I mean that's the root of everything and our shallow love for the rat race gets in the way. If you're not subbed to NonUnionLabor I suggest him,he's a Eugenecist He's left a channel comment for me, right on my page. You might already be subbed but he's great
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
Oh, when I said career, I fucked up... I was meaning more life's passion...
I'm not a career guy, I find my passion in life, is making programs, which I let people download for free... and how can you make a career out of that XD
NonUnionLabor?
Hmm, well I don't like the idea of killing the world into improvement, I think we should guild it, through our children.
Unless the word Eugenecist means something different now XD
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
lol, yeah, it does mean something different now, it's dovetailing with transhumanism. :D I am probably not on board with it, but I recommend this guy because he has the same concerns as you and attitude. There's an eclectic group there, at least look at his channel, I would say.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
I'll take a look, thanks :D
Honestly though, I despise the names communist and Eugenicist, why, well because they've taken a concept, and ensured a negative response form at least 90% of the people you talk to...
So, I call myself a
socialist transhumanist libertarian...
Oppose to
communist Eugenecist anarchist...
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
it seams eugenic thinking is having a comeback it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. i think communist eugenics isn't a bad idea. transhumanism is making man into a new species. you could say its an evolutionary step, but it won't be human and if you chose your kids genes, he won't really be your kid as much as he would if he had only your and her/his mothers genes. i can see the advantages, but i don't think its a good idea and am very against it.
TheVikingNinja 2 years ago
TheReasonWhyGuy,
rape squads? pressure build ups?. it all sounds frightening.
but don't worry son, your balls won't explode. just have a wank.
MensRifleAssociation 2 years ago
lol...
It isn't me, I'm just judging it by historical trends, and modern examples of sexually isolated people...
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago
@jedimasterbooboo
The answer is that pornography does not prevent rape, it actually desensitizes men to the act of rape and portrays women as though they enjoy being raped.
The most vile femicidal maniacs and rapists have linked much of their actions to what they saw and consumed in pornography.
nuclearnight 2 years ago
Yes, I'm arguing against the argument here, it makes no sense without those stats. Like that principalian dude that wants people to take responsibility and not blame porn, but we can blame a LACK of these services, how convenient. It's magic how these things can only cause good and never bad.
jedimasterbooboo 2 years ago
What pornos have you been watching? Crime-watch reconstructions don't count.
Mainstream porn depicts women as enjoying sex, it also does the same for men. I've not seen any that show women shouting "get the fuck off me you psycho", down a dark alley, nor do they show women enjoying rape.
TruthBeyond 2 years ago
Indeed violent sex pornography is already harshly forbidden in many countries, from what I know.
Then somewhere there are crazy people not only making movies depicting violent sex, but there are snuff movies where they kill people or pedophilic ones too, but this is not a cultural issue, we are in outright criminal behaviour in this case.
Instead mainstream pornopgraphy is made by willing women making a lot of $ out of that. Our pornstar, Ilona Staller became a Representative in parliament.
italianchappy 2 years ago
See "Ilona Staller" on wikipedia.
Even Ennio Morricone (ask Clint Eastwood if you don't know who Morricone is) wrote a song for her
/watch?v=kFPnfE9kVyI
italianchappy 2 years ago
the only approach that would work i think would be something like the maoist approach to dealing with the rampant opium addiction in china after they came to power.
TheVikingNinja 2 years ago
error on the video...
Charles0in0charge 2 years ago
@Charles0in0charge
Yeah, thats been happening recently, I'm sure if you keep reloading it'll work eventually.
nuclearnight 2 years ago