rcp1936----sorry bud i got to call bs there....provide your sources on those pitching speeds.....realistically johnson was chucking 92 - 93 back then which was blazing in its time
I'm sure that what made it difficult for batters was that they had no helmets to wear -- therefore no digging in at the plate to see the ball better ... in fact, anything above 80 mph and no helmet is scary
What a pitcher. The greatest of all-time in my opinion. I also like how his super-long arm functions as sort of a whip so he can generate pitch velocity from it.
1913....the Senators had a good season (90 victories). Johnson's record: 36-7, including 11 shutouts. ERA 1.14. 243 strikeouts, 38 BB. Too bad there was no Cy Young award back then.
Try 10 mph higher than what you just said. If he pitched today, we'd be talking about one Johnson more than the other, and it wouldn't be Randy. Randy Johnson struck out batters in an era in which we see 100+ strikeout guys every year in each league. In Walter Johnson's era? You could lead the league in strikeouts by whiffing 80 times. Hitters back in the 1910's and 20's made significantly more contact since putting the bat on the ball was more important than swinging for the fences.
its not taking away from any credit that he accomplished, but he could only throw 91 mph not 101 lol, maybe it was like 101 back then because they had never seen something that fast
200 Strikeout Seasons for Pitchers Today is Common Especially since its a Power Hitting Game with Managers Hoping their Starter can give them 5-6 Innings. It wasn't a Power Hitting Game when WJ Pitched.
Can only Throw 91 is like Saying a Car can only go 120. 91 MPH Fastball is Effective with Good Movement Especially if the Pitcher has Other Pitches he can Rely on. Just Look at Greg Maddux in his Prime.
Johnson universally was said by hitters who faced literally 1000's of pitches, and 100's of pitchers in their careers-that's what they did for a living-to be the fastest they saw. Guys who faced both him and Feller or Dean or Grove-whom No one doubts threw 95 or more-said Johnson was their equal.
Really that's your proof right there on his speed. Guys like Dazzy Vance also threw about as hard. He was unique in his delivery etc, but so what? he could do it.
On the lat scene of his delivery you can see and imagine the gas he had. I've seen guys who rared back- like Goose Gossage- who were loose and used a whip action. He was in the 90's for sure.
again, read or better yet listen to the 4-CD Glory of Their Times set. Lawrence Ritter made a point of asking many of the old-timers who was fastest. The only response, from player after player, of course, was Johnson. They did anything to get on base in those days; they shortened up after 2 strikes and bunted or tried to poke the ball somewhere. Strikeouts were way more shameful then than they are now. Some of the batters who faced him said Johnson's ball simply SOUNDED different. Fastest ever
Baseball was more scientific back then.Speed, fielding and smart hitting was more important than hitting for power. These guys were probably not easy to strike out, thus they all feared Johnson because he could strike them out.
The great Walter Johnson. The only man to lead a Washington baseball team to a World Championship. To this day, he has to be on the short list of the greatest pitchers in baseball history. Anyone who could strike fear into the heart of a ball player like Cobb has to be great.
One of the greatest parts of Ken Burns Baseball was removed after the Ty Cobb comment. A scout told the Washington manager Joe Catalan about an upstart 19 year old pitcher in Idaho. "This boy throws so fast you can't see him, and he knows where he is throwing, because if he didn't, there would be dead bodies all over Idaho."
It's even more hilarous when the dude has his forearms three to four inch further than their ends. LOL
Seriously, this is the most effortless motion I ever saw. How can you throw this hard and look like a kid playing with his dog? I undertsand Ty Cobb; I would've freaked out too if I saw a big guy taking a swing like a 10 year old kid and letting it out around 95-100mph. That must have been the greatest freak show ever!
Sorry Wakefield, even your knuckler can't match this...
He may well be the best to this day, but i think he would get hit around eventually. One thing you must consider is the fact that the quality of hitting has greatly improved since then.
another thing to add is the quality of hitters. if you look at baseball reference statistics and look at the era leaders in the the early 1900s, you will see everyone couuld have a low era. in fact look at 1914, a year i picked randomly. mathewson lead the league in earned runs aloowed...and had a 3.00 era. put walter johnson to the test against today's hitters. and it would be over. i dont really care for the fact about the fuss over pitch speed. i'd rather have a good control pitcher
he's not the best, but one of the best pitchers ever...because he was great in his era. to be a good pitcher is to have control and keep your team in the hunt for a win. you play defense and era tells that...some ppl say its a bad stat, but a pitcher with the right mind set with block the ballpark he is is, the era he is in, the defense around him, and pitch the best against the hitter in the batters box
right because he only had the original strike out record.....he must not have any accuracy at all..... but you people are comparing a farm boy from back then with no special workouts and training to people now with special training..... dont forget if he pitched today he'd be that much better because he'd have the same type of facilities and training as players do today.
Your right, if you put a guy like Walter Johnson with the raw talent that he had. And give him today's training (hopefully no steroids). He'd be completely unstoppable.
Gang- By the way. Look at the Babe Ruth v. Walter Johnson 1942 benefit game newsreel where the two were raising money for war relief funds. Darn! Johnson is in his mid-50s and he still looks like he's 25!
thekillercure many baseball historians agree with the fact that they hit for contact more than power in johnson's era, there were alot more close games, batting averages are alot higher than now, strikeouts were lower and homeruns were lower. there were alot of occasions were the league leader in home runs had less than ten, slugging averages and on base percentages were drastically lower than any other era. im not making this stuff up, if you dont believe me look it up.
How can they be a lot higher. Back then, hitter routinely hit in the .400's. There hasn't been a hitter to hit .400 since Ted Williams. So how can hitting be better. Except more home runs and that is suspect with steroids bringing down most of the big time power hitters of our era.
My friends. Watch the last 2 seconds of this video very closely. It speaks volumes.
As he begins to throw he plants his left foot
stopping the forward motion of his body a split second before he releases the ball in a whiplash like motion. Notice his right trailing foot actually goes back 6 inches before it sets down. This part of the clip is action from an actual game pitch. All the rest are warmup pitches. His game motion is absolutely unique. He becomes a huge slingshot. One of a kind.
you can't say a pitcher is the greatest pitcher because of his wins and ks. because different eras gave players opportunities for wins totals. what makes a great pitcher is getting a guy out and that is only accounted for in era. he is one of the greatest because he was good in his era. but if you ask me; if he was alive in this era, his stats would be worse. a hr takes a toll on a pitcher's era. and that's why koufaxs numbers speaks volumes.
It's fair to say that Johnson would do worse in this era. If you look at Johnson's stats, 1920 to 27, when the ball became more lively and when Babe Ruth and everyone else started to hit more homeruns. He STILL was pitching at a level & in fact in 1924 he lead the league in era with 2.74. Well below his usual standards that he set, but that would put him in contention for the Cy Young today. So I like he would still be great in a hitters era. Greatness is greatness, no matter what time and place
These film clips are pure gold. They show just how unique Johnson was. After delivering a pitch his trailing right leg never comes forward of his his left and he is standing straight up facing the batter. He uses his arm and upper body to whip the ball, much like
a fast pitch softball pitcher. This technique
causes very little stress on the arm. Look at the last 3 seconds of the clip,(from a game),
are you fricken insane?! Nolan Ryan threw for 27 seasons. His last thrown ball ever was 98 mph, and he was well into his fourties. He threw harder AND lasted 7 years longer than johnson. not to mention, Ryan had better hitters to face. Ryan also wouldve had more wins if he didnt play for shit teams like the california angels and the new york mets, or if he wouldve been allowed to pitch every two days like johnson. Theres no comparison.
who are you to call me arrogant? do you even know what you are saying? for one thing, your argument is totally off from what i was saying. two, are you saying nolan ryan didnt over power people with his fastball? three, how do you know anything about hitters back in his time? you, nor your father, nor his father, probably not even his father was around back in that time period. if you are truly suggesting hitters were better back 100 years ago, then i doubt you know anything about baseball.
Imagine how many more wins Johnson would have had if didn't play for the lousy Senators! He lost 19 times by the score of 1-0. By far the most in ML history. There used to be a joke in those days. Washington: First in war, first in peace and last in the American league.
There's a record of a test that was done in the teens, where Johnson and one other guy threw a ball across a room thru a hole and hit a trip wire at the end. He was timed at 89 mph-but you gotta remember thats the speed it had when it hit the wire. The writer of the post said simple math shows he was throwing about 99 or 100 mph easily, ball decelerating the instant it leaves the fingers for home.....And Bill James 20 years ago said 'no way Johnson thru 90 throwing like that.' Bill, shaddap.
More corrections: there were less runs total scored during the deadball era. Johnson did not have 450 + wins. He did say that Smokey Joe was as fast as him for 2 or 3 innings, but could not maintain it-prescient, since S.J. Wood hurt himself & had to become a(decent) batter-he did not us his legs enough when pitching.
But Johnson was likely being nice-he was extremely gracious-even in the above comment.
Johnson was listed at 6' 1", perhaps he was a fraction teller, not 6'3". Even then plenty of people were his & Ruth's size, this is not the determining factor. Johnson almost certainly threw over 100-read extensively researched "Baseball's Big Train', by his Grandson. Who found that the quote re: Smokey Joe Wood was FABRICATED.
Most players who saw both said JOHNSON was faster, & Feller has noted this, & admitted Johnson was likely faster (though Feller had a great curve too).
What an easy motion and sidearm even -- doesn't look like a power pitcher, but was he ever! Notice how far back he pulls his hand and arm before he slings it -- sort of freakish. Those old-time pitchers who threw zillions of innings were freaks of nature in that they didn't burn their arms out. Plenty of good pitching talent was badly overused and abused back in the old days -- you never hear about those guys. Today, with the scarcity of premium pitchers, such overuse would be a waste.
Great stuff. Thanks Ken Burns, et al, for finding these clips, which show the first Washington Base Ball park in the background, a haunt of my grandfather's in his day.
They're going to put a statue of Johnson in front of the new baseball park in DC next spring (along with those of Satchel Paige and Frank Howard).
he was like 6 foot 3 and put everything into his pitches...i always figured Johnsons height and power and the fact he threw big every time was like Ruth....he was big and swung big, so think of the proportions. Ruth hit the ball further than anyone can remember, and theres video to show that when he hit a home run it didnt take long for it to get out, and it went far, so when johnson pitched, it must have been like he was throwing as hard as ruth was hitting,
If someone like Ty Cobb said that about a pitcher, that pitcher must be something else, I'm tellin' ya. To be called dangerous by Ty Cobb is an honor anyone would love to have.
No one will ever really know how fast Johnson was. BUT he must have been something. First, he held the strikeout record for about 70 years and by all accounts he had no curve. So those strikeouts, in an era when players did not strike out, were made because of his speed. Also he won 417 games for an ungodly bad team. Had he played for a good team he might have challenged Cy Young for wins.
Casey Stengel watching Sandy Koufax pitch said: "You can forget the other guy (meaning Walter Johnson) you can forget Wadell this is this the greatest pitcher I ever saw..."
Koufax ,Feller McDowell threw hard !!! In his time he threw harder then most pitchers but to say he threw harder then these guys that's just legend... No proof, and I DOUBT anyone threw harder the Nolan Ryan...
Hey, believe what you want to believe... I am sure he threw hard, I don't question that... The old guys can be sentimental... But I just don't think he threw harder than Ryan... The all-time strikeout king.
you dont know what you are talking about. Koufax's mechanics were perfect, and there were scientific studies to show it(A Lefty's Legacy, jane leavy). however, those mecanics combined with his developing arthritis are what caused him to end his career.
1:23-1:27, that motion is so fluid, like no strings attached. My favorite pitcher of all time because of that cool windup and delvery. Oh, and his career statistics help too.
With that big, loose, whiplike pitching motion, Johnson never suffered the injuries incurred by today's pitchers, i.e. bursitus, muscle tears or strains, and injuries to tendons and ligaments.
He pitched almost 700 games, winning over 450, finishing over 85%...and holding a lifetime e.r.a. of slightly over 2.00. Unbelievable!!
look at those long arms and fluid motion... with todays training he'd break bats aplenty (ash bats are common today.. not hickory ,due to its lighter weight)
The dead ball era didn't mean there were fewer runs scored, it just meant that they scored runs differently. Home runs were scarce, but teams created runs with steals, bunts, hit-and-run plays. Yes, striking out was considered a waste of an at-bat. If players in Johnson's era swung as freely as they do today, Johnson would likely have had 5,000 strikeouts.
Pitchers pitched much differently back in those days. Since offense was so low during the dead-ball era, pitchers were content with letting the batters put the ball in play and have the fielders take care of getting the out; only when there was a huge jam would a pitcher go for a strikeout.
Note to fade2black412: part of that is due to the fact that in Johnson's era, batters considered it a matter of pride NOT to strike out, in contrast to today's hitters. Batters would more likely foul off or bunt off Walter Johnson to avoid embarrassment. For example, one player, Joe Sewell, once struck out only 4 times in one year.
they used a ball unil it nearly fell apart early in his career...plus pitchers were more prone to let the ball be put into play...i am guessing the train would have suprised hitters of our day , and that ryan , johnson and the like would fit in equally in the dead ball era
plus u must remember friend , they pitched WAY MORE innings then as well...and tended to get most strikeouts early in a game, particularly as the year went on..i mean , dude , imagine , just IMAGINE a pitcher today throwing between 322 and 371 innings for NIN STRAIGHT YEARS...and doing so with balls that were NOT of equal quality as today..hell, that makes his SO totals even MORE impressive
anybody knows how tall he was or how long his arm was, coz the exceptional velocity's gotta be comin from the extremely long sling, in addition to the regular lookin drive with the legs and the trunk.
Bob Feller when asked if he threw harder than anyone ever responded that at the end of his career players who batted against him had also batted against Nloan Ryan, the said Feller threw harder than Ryan. At the start of his career Feller faced players who had batted against Johnson. They said Johnson threw "alot" harder than Feller.
the greatest scariest hustler pitcher ever. one strong smart mofo look at the body control in the windup holy hell he could pitch to ANYONE and they would likely end up bowing
whats this monolog called
pinoybro09 1 year ago
rcp1936----sorry bud i got to call bs there....provide your sources on those pitching speeds.....realistically johnson was chucking 92 - 93 back then which was blazing in its time
NolaKilla99 1 year ago
is this about walter
its bc he said ty kob at the end and i got confused
pinoybro09 1 year ago
Kansas plowboy!!!
Railroadwife 1 year ago
3 shutouts in 4 days, no pitcher today could have done that. Maybe Koufax in that 5 year period Maybe.
rogermaris1961 2 years ago
I'm sure that what made it difficult for batters was that they had no helmets to wear -- therefore no digging in at the plate to see the ball better ... in fact, anything above 80 mph and no helmet is scary
sloppyoscar 2 years ago
If there is a better Pitcher then Walter Johnson, then I would like to know.
FrsBigeasy 2 years ago
koufax
jmm0935 2 years ago
Long arms and big hands. Pitchers didn't use any leg drive back then like Koufax, Seaver and Ryan did much later on.
bradleyjstevens 2 years ago 2
Bob Feller was timed at 98mph at HOME PLATE with screens from Aberdeen Proving Grounds
That is equivalent to 108 on the Radar Gun
Batters said Johnson and Grove were his equal if not faster
Even Johnson who was honest to a fault said he was faster than Feller
rcp1936 2 years ago 3
link
hlev123 2 years ago
Best pitcher ever.
knx0355 2 years ago 2
What a pitcher. The greatest of all-time in my opinion. I also like how his super-long arm functions as sort of a whip so he can generate pitch velocity from it.
9splendidsplinter 2 years ago 3
Comment removed
9splendidsplinter 2 years ago
1913....the Senators had a good season (90 victories). Johnson's record: 36-7, including 11 shutouts. ERA 1.14. 243 strikeouts, 38 BB. Too bad there was no Cy Young award back then.
cranston49 2 years ago
i just think its unique how hes viewed as a complete power pitcher even though it was proven he could only throw like 91 mph
hlev123 2 years ago
Try 10 mph higher than what you just said. If he pitched today, we'd be talking about one Johnson more than the other, and it wouldn't be Randy. Randy Johnson struck out batters in an era in which we see 100+ strikeout guys every year in each league. In Walter Johnson's era? You could lead the league in strikeouts by whiffing 80 times. Hitters back in the 1910's and 20's made significantly more contact since putting the bat on the ball was more important than swinging for the fences.
sexychrisb 2 years ago
its not taking away from any credit that he accomplished, but he could only throw 91 mph not 101 lol, maybe it was like 101 back then because they had never seen something that fast
hlev123 2 years ago
This is factual, of course. Since you were there.
sexychrisb 2 years ago
200 Strikeout Seasons for Pitchers Today is Common Especially since its a Power Hitting Game with Managers Hoping their Starter can give them 5-6 Innings. It wasn't a Power Hitting Game when WJ Pitched.
FrsBigeasy 2 years ago
Can only Throw 91 is like Saying a Car can only go 120. 91 MPH Fastball is Effective with Good Movement Especially if the Pitcher has Other Pitches he can Rely on. Just Look at Greg Maddux in his Prime.
FrsBigeasy 2 years ago
Yes but johnson himself credited Smokey Joe Wood to be faster than he and the faster he'd ever seen. Poor Joe was unlucky in the end though.
hfield07 2 years ago
Johnson universally was said by hitters who faced literally 1000's of pitches, and 100's of pitchers in their careers-that's what they did for a living-to be the fastest they saw. Guys who faced both him and Feller or Dean or Grove-whom No one doubts threw 95 or more-said Johnson was their equal.
Really that's your proof right there on his speed. Guys like Dazzy Vance also threw about as hard. He was unique in his delivery etc, but so what? he could do it.
mowm88 2 years ago
I read once somewhere that if he had been put on the Giants team that Christy Mathewson pitched for he would have one over 550 games
mrjames30 2 years ago
It's true, he would rarely lose. To think, had he been on a different team, we would be calling it the " Walter Johnson " award.
sexychrisb 2 years ago
Great Comment, Totally Agree he might have been the greatest pitcher of all-time, definitely of that time
jimw12 2 years ago
My High School was named after him. He was someone to look up to. Today players have bad late night jokes made about them. WJ was the best!
raymond52044 2 years ago
On the lat scene of his delivery you can see and imagine the gas he had. I've seen guys who rared back- like Goose Gossage- who were loose and used a whip action. He was in the 90's for sure.
JLDB1987 2 years ago
again, read or better yet listen to the 4-CD Glory of Their Times set. Lawrence Ritter made a point of asking many of the old-timers who was fastest. The only response, from player after player, of course, was Johnson. They did anything to get on base in those days; they shortened up after 2 strikes and bunted or tried to poke the ball somewhere. Strikeouts were way more shameful then than they are now. Some of the batters who faced him said Johnson's ball simply SOUNDED different. Fastest ever
hudsonhigh2450 2 years ago
Baseball was more scientific back then.Speed, fielding and smart hitting was more important than hitting for power. These guys were probably not easy to strike out, thus they all feared Johnson because he could strike them out.
Basssinger86 2 years ago
The great Walter Johnson. The only man to lead a Washington baseball team to a World Championship. To this day, he has to be on the short list of the greatest pitchers in baseball history. Anyone who could strike fear into the heart of a ball player like Cobb has to be great.
dcbandnerd 2 years ago 3
One of the greatest parts of Ken Burns Baseball was removed after the Ty Cobb comment. A scout told the Washington manager Joe Catalan about an upstart 19 year old pitcher in Idaho. "This boy throws so fast you can't see him, and he knows where he is throwing, because if he didn't, there would be dead bodies all over Idaho."
TheVerasGroup 3 years ago 3
Man those uniforms are hilarious!
OMGedInStoresNearYou 3 years ago
It's even more hilarous when the dude has his forearms three to four inch further than their ends. LOL
Seriously, this is the most effortless motion I ever saw. How can you throw this hard and look like a kid playing with his dog? I undertsand Ty Cobb; I would've freaked out too if I saw a big guy taking a swing like a 10 year old kid and letting it out around 95-100mph. That must have been the greatest freak show ever!
Sorry Wakefield, even your knuckler can't match this...
SovietskiiSniper 2 years ago
Happy belated 121st birthday Walter Johnson!
tefisher1984 3 years ago
it would be interesting to see how he would do today. I'd bet he'd be better than any other pitcher today
kapute2 3 years ago
He may well be the best to this day, but i think he would get hit around eventually. One thing you must consider is the fact that the quality of hitting has greatly improved since then.
OMGedInStoresNearYou 3 years ago
another thing to add is the quality of hitters. if you look at baseball reference statistics and look at the era leaders in the the early 1900s, you will see everyone couuld have a low era. in fact look at 1914, a year i picked randomly. mathewson lead the league in earned runs aloowed...and had a 3.00 era. put walter johnson to the test against today's hitters. and it would be over. i dont really care for the fact about the fuss over pitch speed. i'd rather have a good control pitcher
rewqrewqrewq 3 years ago
I like a little of both, but would you agree that Nolan Ryan is the best?
moffettman02 3 years ago
he's not the best, but one of the best pitchers ever...because he was great in his era. to be a good pitcher is to have control and keep your team in the hunt for a win. you play defense and era tells that...some ppl say its a bad stat, but a pitcher with the right mind set with block the ballpark he is is, the era he is in, the defense around him, and pitch the best against the hitter in the batters box
rewqrewqrewq 3 years ago
right because he only had the original strike out record.....he must not have any accuracy at all..... but you people are comparing a farm boy from back then with no special workouts and training to people now with special training..... dont forget if he pitched today he'd be that much better because he'd have the same type of facilities and training as players do today.
baseball7410 2 years ago 3
...and Ruth would have hit 800 homers if he had taken care of himself and worked out. -or took steroids :)
zeroplague 2 years ago
If Ruth played in the small parks today he would have hit 1000 home runs
He hit over 50 balls that went over 450 feet for outs
rcp1936 2 years ago
Your right, if you put a guy like Walter Johnson with the raw talent that he had. And give him today's training (hopefully no steroids). He'd be completely unstoppable.
Basssinger86 2 years ago
Those farm boys of yesteryear were over all stronger
Big difference in repetition strength of bodybuilding and 8-12 day work strength that builds the entire body
rcp1936 2 years ago
Great to see this stuff. You are right by the way-the last stuff was from games not batting practice or warm-ups. Good footage. Great pitcher.
mowm88 3 years ago
Gang- By the way. Look at the Babe Ruth v. Walter Johnson 1942 benefit game newsreel where the two were raising money for war relief funds. Darn! Johnson is in his mid-50s and he still looks like he's 25!
Zwangsman1 3 years ago
thekillercure many baseball historians agree with the fact that they hit for contact more than power in johnson's era, there were alot more close games, batting averages are alot higher than now, strikeouts were lower and homeruns were lower. there were alot of occasions were the league leader in home runs had less than ten, slugging averages and on base percentages were drastically lower than any other era. im not making this stuff up, if you dont believe me look it up.
NWAsMostWanted 3 years ago
How can they be a lot higher. Back then, hitter routinely hit in the .400's. There hasn't been a hitter to hit .400 since Ted Williams. So how can hitting be better. Except more home runs and that is suspect with steroids bringing down most of the big time power hitters of our era.
Basssinger86 2 years ago
My friends. Watch the last 2 seconds of this video very closely. It speaks volumes.
As he begins to throw he plants his left foot
stopping the forward motion of his body a split second before he releases the ball in a whiplash like motion. Notice his right trailing foot actually goes back 6 inches before it sets down. This part of the clip is action from an actual game pitch. All the rest are warmup pitches. His game motion is absolutely unique. He becomes a huge slingshot. One of a kind.
sonarman65 3 years ago
I have been watching baseball since 1946 and until seeing these clips and reading Johnson's
Biography by H. Thomas(his grandson), I considered Sandy Koufax the greatest pitcher
of the game. But now I believe Sandy must take
a back seat to Walter Johnson. Even the great Bob Feller admitted Johnson could pitch
faster than himself. And to get Feller to admit that, is really something. Johnson's
pitching motion is truly unique and was never duplicated. In my opinion Johnson is the
best.
sonarman65 3 years ago
no. walter johnson was the best pitcher in the history of baseball and still is.
Thatsfun08 3 years ago
you can't say a pitcher is the greatest pitcher because of his wins and ks. because different eras gave players opportunities for wins totals. what makes a great pitcher is getting a guy out and that is only accounted for in era. he is one of the greatest because he was good in his era. but if you ask me; if he was alive in this era, his stats would be worse. a hr takes a toll on a pitcher's era. and that's why koufaxs numbers speaks volumes.
rewqrewqrewq 3 years ago
It's fair to say that Johnson would do worse in this era. If you look at Johnson's stats, 1920 to 27, when the ball became more lively and when Babe Ruth and everyone else started to hit more homeruns. He STILL was pitching at a level & in fact in 1924 he lead the league in era with 2.74. Well below his usual standards that he set, but that would put him in contention for the Cy Young today. So I like he would still be great in a hitters era. Greatness is greatness, no matter what time and place
Basssinger86 2 years ago
His strikeout record stood for 55 years, his 110 shutouts still stands, 1-0 win record still stands (and 1-0 loss record still stands also).
TyVulpine 2 years ago
I love these films, i have the whole set on dvd.
metfn18x 3 years ago
he was nice, he was calm, he was the greatest pitcher ever. until mister koufax came along...
ElTiant 3 years ago
the greatest right handed pitcher of all time.
end of story.
newt0830 3 years ago
Incredible, such high velocity with such an easy and smooth motion. Gotta love baseball history.
yaheem 3 years ago
These film clips are pure gold. They show just how unique Johnson was. After delivering a pitch his trailing right leg never comes forward of his his left and he is standing straight up facing the batter. He uses his arm and upper body to whip the ball, much like
a fast pitch softball pitcher. This technique
causes very little stress on the arm. Look at the last 3 seconds of the clip,(from a game),
his right foot actually goes back 6 inches
when releasing the ball. Why is he not
imitated?
sonarman65 3 years ago
Ryan played in a different era. I think comparing the two based on strikeouts is completely illogical.
What I do think, is that Ryan was fast, but Johnson was faster for longer(as wrong as that sounded).
thelegacy250 3 years ago
are you fricken insane?! Nolan Ryan threw for 27 seasons. His last thrown ball ever was 98 mph, and he was well into his fourties. He threw harder AND lasted 7 years longer than johnson. not to mention, Ryan had better hitters to face. Ryan also wouldve had more wins if he didnt play for shit teams like the california angels and the new york mets, or if he wouldve been allowed to pitch every two days like johnson. Theres no comparison.
thekillercure21 3 years ago
Correct, there is no comparison. Walter Johnson was a better pitcher in his era.
RockMSockM 3 years ago
It's arrogant assholes like you who piss me off.
I the two were in the same era, Johnson would mopst certainly developed a curveball and other pitches that are key to baseball in this era.
Walter Johnson worked with a fastball and a changeup. He overpowered pitchers with his fastball.
In Johnsons time, batters hit for contact, not power. Strikeouts were rarer.
Both pitchers were great, I'd say Johnson was better considering his time period.
Mikeee7787 3 years ago
who are you to call me arrogant? do you even know what you are saying? for one thing, your argument is totally off from what i was saying. two, are you saying nolan ryan didnt over power people with his fastball? three, how do you know anything about hitters back in his time? you, nor your father, nor his father, probably not even his father was around back in that time period. if you are truly suggesting hitters were better back 100 years ago, then i doubt you know anything about baseball.
thekillercure21 3 years ago
Imagine how many more wins Johnson would have had if didn't play for the lousy Senators! He lost 19 times by the score of 1-0. By far the most in ML history. There used to be a joke in those days. Washington: First in war, first in peace and last in the American league.
nonsuchfabio 3 years ago
he was one of the nicest, calmest, guys out there, just like lou gehrig...
HugeLlama 3 years ago 2
strikeout rates increased 23% after walter johnson entered the league
rockerduff1231 3 years ago 4
There's a record of a test that was done in the teens, where Johnson and one other guy threw a ball across a room thru a hole and hit a trip wire at the end. He was timed at 89 mph-but you gotta remember thats the speed it had when it hit the wire. The writer of the post said simple math shows he was throwing about 99 or 100 mph easily, ball decelerating the instant it leaves the fingers for home.....And Bill James 20 years ago said 'no way Johnson thru 90 throwing like that.' Bill, shaddap.
mowm88 3 years ago
i dont like how you skip around your videos...why cant you just post the full clip?
rockerduff1231 3 years ago 3
More corrections: there were less runs total scored during the deadball era. Johnson did not have 450 + wins. He did say that Smokey Joe was as fast as him for 2 or 3 innings, but could not maintain it-prescient, since S.J. Wood hurt himself & had to become a(decent) batter-he did not us his legs enough when pitching.
But Johnson was likely being nice-he was extremely gracious-even in the above comment.
Stroquest 4 years ago
Johnson was listed at 6' 1", perhaps he was a fraction teller, not 6'3". Even then plenty of people were his & Ruth's size, this is not the determining factor. Johnson almost certainly threw over 100-read extensively researched "Baseball's Big Train', by his Grandson. Who found that the quote re: Smokey Joe Wood was FABRICATED.
Most players who saw both said JOHNSON was faster, & Feller has noted this, & admitted Johnson was likely faster (though Feller had a great curve too).
Stroquest 4 years ago
Johnson was once asked if he could throw harder than Smokey Joe Wood
Johnson replied "There is not a man alive that can throw faster than Smokey Joe "
Wood was 34-5 and Johnson 35-12 in 1912
Both had 16 gamne wining streaks that year
They met in one game when Wood had 13 straight going and Wood won 1-0
A couple years later Wood came down with a sore arm and made a comeback as an outfielder
rcp1936 4 years ago
cool.
megamanfrk 4 years ago
What an easy motion and sidearm even -- doesn't look like a power pitcher, but was he ever! Notice how far back he pulls his hand and arm before he slings it -- sort of freakish. Those old-time pitchers who threw zillions of innings were freaks of nature in that they didn't burn their arms out. Plenty of good pitching talent was badly overused and abused back in the old days -- you never hear about those guys. Today, with the scarcity of premium pitchers, such overuse would be a waste.
KapnKoolio 4 years ago
Great stuff. Thanks Ken Burns, et al, for finding these clips, which show the first Washington Base Ball park in the background, a haunt of my grandfather's in his day.
They're going to put a statue of Johnson in front of the new baseball park in DC next spring (along with those of Satchel Paige and Frank Howard).
taylorw 4 years ago
he was like 6 foot 3 and put everything into his pitches...i always figured Johnsons height and power and the fact he threw big every time was like Ruth....he was big and swung big, so think of the proportions. Ruth hit the ball further than anyone can remember, and theres video to show that when he hit a home run it didnt take long for it to get out, and it went far, so when johnson pitched, it must have been like he was throwing as hard as ruth was hitting,
maybe 95, 96
rockerduff1231 4 years ago
If someone like Ty Cobb said that about a pitcher, that pitcher must be something else, I'm tellin' ya. To be called dangerous by Ty Cobb is an honor anyone would love to have.
HumbleYankee 4 years ago
No one will ever really know how fast Johnson was. BUT he must have been something. First, he held the strikeout record for about 70 years and by all accounts he had no curve. So those strikeouts, in an era when players did not strike out, were made because of his speed. Also he won 417 games for an ungodly bad team. Had he played for a good team he might have challenged Cy Young for wins.
ufund 4 years ago
Feller was timed at 98.3 at HOME PLATE
You can imagine what that would be as it left the mound
Johnson a very honest man said he was faster than Feller
When asked if he was faster than Smoky Joe Wood --Johnson replied there is no man alive faster than Wood
rcp1936 4 years ago
Time makes everything seem better, but I doubt very much that Johnson was faster than Feller or Nolan Ryan...
hamshow 4 years ago
Steve O'Neil who played against Johnson for 16 years and also caught him and also caught Feller said Johnson was faster
Bob Feller said his belief is Johnson was faster because he didn't have a curve ball (Feller had an excellent one and also a great slider )
rcp1936 4 years ago
Casey Stengel watching Sandy Koufax pitch said: "You can forget the other guy (meaning Walter Johnson) you can forget Wadell this is this the greatest pitcher I ever saw..."
hamshow 4 years ago
Koulfax was drugged up with coedine and cortizone just so he could pitch and didn't pace himself and threw hard all the time and ruined his arm
The others paced themselves
We are talking about the fastest not the best
Johnson didnt have a curve
rcp1936 4 years ago
Koufax ,Feller McDowell threw hard !!! In his time he threw harder then most pitchers but to say he threw harder then these guys that's just legend... No proof, and I DOUBT anyone threw harder the Nolan Ryan...
hamshow 4 years ago
Bill Dickey said Grove was faster than Feller
Feller said players that faced both him and Johnson said Johnson was faster
Feller said players that faced him and Ryan said he was faster than Ryan
Ruth said Grove and Johnson were cousins both like rifle shots
I 'll have to take the word of those who did the playing
rcp1936 4 years ago
Hey, believe what you want to believe... I am sure he threw hard, I don't question that... The old guys can be sentimental... But I just don't think he threw harder than Ryan... The all-time strikeout king.
hamshow 4 years ago
You can believe what you want to belief also
I'll take the words of those that were there
rcp1936 4 years ago
Actually, those who saw both Feller and Ryan (according to Feller) said Feller was faster.
DiMagRocks 4 years ago
That is what I said
rcp1936 4 years ago
you said they thought Ryan was faster.
DiMagRocks 4 years ago
!! Oops !!
Misread it, sorry. You did indeed say that they thought Feller was faster.
DiMagRocks 4 years ago
you dont know what you are talking about. Koufax's mechanics were perfect, and there were scientific studies to show it(A Lefty's Legacy, jane leavy). however, those mecanics combined with his developing arthritis are what caused him to end his career.
thekillercure21 3 years ago
na he said "Forget the other fellow. You can forget Wadell. The Jewish kid is probably the best of them.
rockerduff1231 4 years ago
1:23-1:27, that motion is so fluid, like no strings attached. My favorite pitcher of all time because of that cool windup and delvery. Oh, and his career statistics help too.
HumbleYankee 4 years ago
With that big, loose, whiplike pitching motion, Johnson never suffered the injuries incurred by today's pitchers, i.e. bursitus, muscle tears or strains, and injuries to tendons and ligaments.
He pitched almost 700 games, winning over 450, finishing over 85%...and holding a lifetime e.r.a. of slightly over 2.00. Unbelievable!!
valkyrie2usa 4 years ago
walter johnson
someguy936 4 years ago
look at those long arms and fluid motion... with todays training he'd break bats aplenty (ash bats are common today.. not hickory ,due to its lighter weight)
sloppyoscar 4 years ago
The dead ball era didn't mean there were fewer runs scored, it just meant that they scored runs differently. Home runs were scarce, but teams created runs with steals, bunts, hit-and-run plays. Yes, striking out was considered a waste of an at-bat. If players in Johnson's era swung as freely as they do today, Johnson would likely have had 5,000 strikeouts.
Lava1964 4 years ago
apparently he threw faster than bob feller and i heard bob feller could throw about 105 mph. Anything faster is unhuman.
NWAsMostWanted 4 years ago
where did u umm, 'hear' , that feller could pitch 105?
i have seen videos of him throwing next to a motor bike at about 97 to 98 mph...but 105?...not likely
darrin924 4 years ago
i wonder how many wins walter johnson and cy young would have if they pitched their careers in the mlb in 2007
BxL121 4 years ago
i read in the baseball book that if they had radar guns back in the day that walter johnson could throw it 110mph. no joke
bigsmokiee55 4 years ago
no way in hell, not humanly possible
fade2black412 4 years ago
I doubt that !!!
hamshow 4 years ago
in 'the baseball book'?...umm, be more specific please...NO JOKE
darrin924 4 years ago
okay the sports illustrated baseball book. intro by tom verducci, and various passages of different analysts. published by sports illustrated in 2006
bigsmokiee55 4 years ago
he apparently threw so hard, but he only had 3509 strikouts in about 6000 innings, thats not very good for someone who supposedly threw over 100 mph
fade2black412 4 years ago
Pitchers pitched much differently back in those days. Since offense was so low during the dead-ball era, pitchers were content with letting the batters put the ball in play and have the fielders take care of getting the out; only when there was a huge jam would a pitcher go for a strikeout.
FrozenFire05 4 years ago
Note to fade2black412: part of that is due to the fact that in Johnson's era, batters considered it a matter of pride NOT to strike out, in contrast to today's hitters. Batters would more likely foul off or bunt off Walter Johnson to avoid embarrassment. For example, one player, Joe Sewell, once struck out only 4 times in one year.
tonyoandkitty 4 years ago
they used a ball unil it nearly fell apart early in his career...plus pitchers were more prone to let the ball be put into play...i am guessing the train would have suprised hitters of our day , and that ryan , johnson and the like would fit in equally in the dead ball era
good is GOOD!
darrin924 4 years ago
plus u must remember friend , they pitched WAY MORE innings then as well...and tended to get most strikeouts early in a game, particularly as the year went on..i mean , dude , imagine , just IMAGINE a pitcher today throwing between 322 and 371 innings for NIN STRAIGHT YEARS...and doing so with balls that were NOT of equal quality as today..hell, that makes his SO totals even MORE impressive
darrin924 4 years ago
Different game back then, bigger strike zone plus pitch counts were lower then.
hamshow 4 years ago
anybody knows how tall he was or how long his arm was, coz the exceptional velocity's gotta be comin from the extremely long sling, in addition to the regular lookin drive with the legs and the trunk.
cnut1016 4 years ago
Bob Feller when asked if he threw harder than anyone ever responded that at the end of his career players who batted against him had also batted against Nloan Ryan, the said Feller threw harder than Ryan. At the start of his career Feller faced players who had batted against Johnson. They said Johnson threw "alot" harder than Feller.
joebuck914 4 years ago
where did you get this info from?
fade2black412 4 years ago
Heard him interviewed on a sports talk show about 4 years ago
joebuck914 4 years ago
bonds would homer off that bitch... oh n koufax is the MAN
omeed347 4 years ago
is there any way to know exactly what velocity he threw it about, was he 95-96, 97-100, is there anyway to find out, and if anyone knows say so.
fade2black412 4 years ago
He played 1907-1927, they didn't have speed measuring technology back then and the video here is not nearly good enough to determine it from that.
tnova4 4 years ago
What a class act! Thanks for the clip.
Brutmax 4 years ago
Amazing that with that motion, The Big Train could blow it by anybody. And a fine gentleman he was, too.
speedy45rpm 4 years ago
the greatest scariest hustler pitcher ever. one strong smart mofo look at the body control in the windup holy hell he could pitch to ANYONE and they would likely end up bowing
ersatz111 4 years ago