A response to Geert Wilder's Fitna (From the Council of Ex-Muslims) 2/3

[deeryker]

wankers,,,fukkin wankers  no brains

[TTFLS]

Hahahaha why do they even discuss that dirty little piece of PowerPoint amateurism? I mean my movie maker could have done better then that.. Its like the guy says, its an anit-immigrant movie.. So lets throw Geert out of Europe! Signed, an Islam hating Atheist!

[yerk3]

@cryfreeedom The situation in the Middle East is a tangled mess of nationalism, poverty, corruption and intra-religious chaos. To pin it all on Islam is mind-numbingly simplistic. There aren't going to be stonings or amputations in the streets of London, nobody is arguing for that, nobody is trying to make that happen, it isn't a possibility, you're describing a boogeyman who exists only in your head.

[yerk3]

@cryfreeedom There seems to be a span of several centuries that you seem to have been completely unaware of: the Christian era. It wasn't Muslims who torched the Library of Alexandria, it was good, pious Christians, organized by the local bishop. It was they who dragged Hypatia of Alexandria into the street, ripped her skin off with sea shells and set fire to her mutilated corpse. By the time the Muslims got to Egypt, its days as a center of culture had already been over for centuries.

[yerk3]

@cryfreeedom Your knowledge of history is funny. Even 2,000 years ago, Egypt was a shadow of its former self, eclipsed by two empires, one of which was still occupying it, with the intention of streamlining it into a source for wine and grain, with little regard for native traditions.

[yerk3]

@cryfreeedom If your problem is with Islam, speak out against the concept, demonstrate its flaws on an intellectual level. Bashing immigrants, who could be of any religion, is not a way to do this.

[yerk3]

@cryfreeedom So then, your beef is not with Islam, per se, but rather with immigrants, specifically of the non-white variety?

[TheGreenPastures]

How can you convert or reform SATAN? That means you don't know him yet.

[mrlurp]

This is the real mrlurp, I did not write these. it looks like my channel has been hijacked. I am changing the password now.

To whoever hijacked my channel, you're a cowered if you can't use your own channel to make comments on other peoples videos..

[kendrawhisp]

I think these dudes hit the nail on the head, i remember watching fitna last year, and won't do it again. Fitna is an attack on ordinary muslims, and justified by some verses in the quran. What if we made a vid about how violent the west are, shit loads of vids and pics of us at war, conquoring, invading, and then started taking some nastey verses from the bible and related the imagary with the quotes, and said, "Look at these fucked up christians, what they do for their god"! it's not right.

[CreativeFreedoms]

Wilders cares about the Netherlands and Europe foremost. It makes sense. Somebody has to.

[yerk3]

@CreativeFreedoms I'm sure Mao cared a lot about China too. Unfortunately, "caring" about a place doesn't mean you know what's best for it or its people. Wilders' kind of "care" would turn the country into something that it is not, and was never meant to be: a racially segregated fascist state.

[Belle19700]

Maybe Geert doesn't want to live around a bunch of muslims, and what's wrong with that? Immigration does need to stop, and reversed. What's wrong with that?

[yerk3]

@Belle19700 Well, for one thing, not all Muslims are terrorists, and for another, not all immigrants are Muslims. Some are secularists, and as such, sending them back would be a death sentence. If you believe in secular government, then you would be condemning your fellow secularists, purely for the color of their skin.

[yerk3]

@Belle19700 What's wrong with that? Oh, I dunno, maybe BASIC HUMAN DECENCY?

[preservwestculture]

This woman has to understand the Geert Wilders doesn't have a responsibility to Islam....he is a politician representing his people.....you people on this panel should do it yourselves...and islamic countries...not Geert Wilders.....he has done enough.......

[MsGLULU]

We need to focus on the extremist salafsites from islam that create violence and intimidation if we speak agaist segregationons protection for children. Islam has a problem and they need to talk about it

[TiradeFaction]

I'm glad the Ex Muslims have criticized Geert Wilders.

The guys nothing but a opportunist racist.

[preservwestculture]

you should feel lucky to be half the man Geert Wilders is....he is the bravest man of the century.......he is trying to preserve our culture.......how else can he go about this if you are so smart?.....at least he stands up and speaks his mind......

[TiradeFaction]

@preservwestculture Preserve culture eh? I heard that somewhere else...Germany 1941 I think?

[Erbrecher]

I, as a German, have to oppose your historical estimation here. There is a huge difference between preserving the best political culture there is (democracies with free speech, freedom of press aso) and what Hitler did. Nazi Germany murdered people with a brain who where in favour of a free society. You shouldn't mix up defending civil liberties (="our culture") with an insane racial agenda in a dictatorship (=exactly the opposite of the "culture to be preserved")

[TiradeFaction]

@Erbrecher Please...if he cared about civil liberties, he wouldn't support hate speech laws against Muslims (he's for banning the Qu'ran). I'm not fan of Islam, but I'm also no fan of rabid anti immigrant types (too many of these dipshits back home in my country). Also, the introduction of civil liberties is a rather new thing in our "cultures", European cultures historically had little to noactual civil liberties. I'd still consider that claim rather dubious,not that ME has good civil lbs ethr.

[Erbrecher]

@tiradefaction

I think you misunderstood me. The right to critizise religion verbally and in press is already a civil liberty that needs to be protected - but instead, European countries apology for these rights and people relying on them are exposed to death threats and namecallings. What Europe historically was is totally irrelevant in this debate - what is important is, that we are free societies nowadays. And we are: Today Germany has a female chancellor and a homosexual secretary of state.

[TiradeFaction]

@Erbrecher I generally agree with you. Yes, I'm aware Germany is a free society right now, and I'm glad it is. And yes, I'm aware Islam is not a "peaceful' religion and etc., etc. I don't like Islamic countries myself, as their human rights records are abysmal, that being said, it doesn't mean I like Geert Wilders anti immigrant agenda, nor do I think he honestly cares about civil liberties. He just wants his own tyranny.

[DreamFreedom1]

But I COMPLETELY agree with what Bahram Soroush says, that our media needs to show more about human rights' movement in islamic countries. And that they need our support

[DreamFreedom1]

I think these ex-muslims are not doing themselves a favour. They are afraid of Wilders, but they don't need to be. Actually, if immigration (of muslims) would decrease altogether, they would have much more protection from islamists themselves.

[malsifood]

I dont accept your critics of te movie fitna!!

I am a european and i do not accept muslim behaviour here in europe!!!

If someone want his wife to walk around with a veil so then send these backwarded bastards back to the muslim countries they came from!!

Here in the west, we do not treat woman like that!!!!

I am not going to learn the difference between moderate and radical islam!! It is all the same silly bullshit!

If you flee from islamist country, so then behave as we do or go back!!

[EzraTerminal]

I love it how the racist "anti-muslims" react all nasty to secular ex-muslims as well. Lulz.

[humanman65]

It must be comprehended that the refugees will vote for Islam in otherwise democratic systems giving Islamic leaders an in, not just by those folks but also via the late UN resolution that criticizing Islam is hate speech and one will be imprisoned. Islam is massacring people left and right she says it but doesnt get it.

[JuliaB1955]

I watched Fitna, and what I derived from it was the problem with EXTREMIST Muslims who are violent and trying to impose their religious law on the world. I see the distinction. These folks here aren't about to behead anyone. They're not the problem, and Fitna made that clear.

[Averroes1126]

In my opinion, You are right and You are not right,

because the violent muslims are not the greatest problem. The greatest problem with Islam is the denying of democracy, freedom of speech, human rights and nearly all western values.

[DawahandJihad]

Now what makes gives the West any authority to decide that the only acceptable way of life is theirs? This is the arrogance of such a culture and your words make that clear.

[danny402]

to be fair dawahand

arrogance is a powerful word so be careful as to were you use it.

lets ot forget that pakistan wouldnt accept people walking around in bakinis etc.

so why should we accept. and thats the the big problem the problem is that you think everyone should be like you. when the fact is that nobody will ever be like that. so thats muslims problem today and arrogence pretty much sums up muslims

"its my way or the highway with u lot"

[byteresistor]

"Now what makes gives the West any authority to decide that the only acceptable way of life is theirs?"

We have every right to "dictate" our way of life in our own countries. If any immigrant does not like it, they should leave, simple as that. I can't move to Iran for example and start demanding they will start doing things my way, now can I?

[Dragonlady66]

The West should be able to decide in the West that their way of life is better. Who the hell are the muslims/non Westerners to try to tell us otherwise?

[8blkcat]

You are wrong, Julia. Fitna is a propaganda film for a populist and its target is muslim immigrants. Wilders tries to equate extremist muslims with the immigrant populations because it is politically expedient for him to do so.

Rewatch these videos. They are a spot on analysis. These are sharp (& courageous) people.

[Aegialeus]

8blkcat

Do you call quoting the Koran in Fitna propaganda...am I missing something here!!!?

The propaganda is in the smoke and mirrors of these so called ex-Muslims who still feel obliged or connected to their Muslim relatives and freedoms.

When the extremist Muslims commited their terror acts & anti-freedom & anti-anything-non-Islamic protests, I do no see the overwhelming so called moderate Muslims stand & be counted against the so called radical Islamists.

Who do you think your kidding.

[Dragonlady66]

Ex muslims want to move to the West too... so its in their interest to condem this movie as ex muslims dont have a sign on their head saying i'm not longer a muslim. This stops them from being killed by their ex ummah, but it also means they are viewed often as muslims by westerners.

[Aegialeus]

Dragonlady66

That rational does make sense, but it's to easy.

My forebears risked everything for their freedom, they risked their own lives & stood their ground fighting, bleeding, and screaming NO against tyranny. I am a benifactor of western culture, freedom and liberty and my place is as a custodian to this task of preservation, as is to many other fellow peers to who this task was also bestowed upon

1/F

[Aegialeus]

Dragonlady66

Tell me at what price and how did these ex-Muslims fight against tyranny for free will, free expression unbound, to be able to have a right of passage to live in my nation and call them selves my squall or citizen? Will they also be custodians of this freedom and liberty we cherish? Or will they turn and run in the face of adversity hiding behind me or worse my enemies?

2/F

[Dragonlady66]

oh I agree with your points, I'm just surmising why ex muslims would criticise this film.

[Aegialeus]

Dragonlady66

Ex-Muslims expressing a lie out of fear of being persecuted by Muslims?

[Dragonlady66]

no that's not where I was coming from

[Aegialeus]

Dragonlady66

Oh by the way I like your user name, very exotic...oops I'm off topic here...I hope I don't get deleted.

[omarinbox]

This film does not criticize the main problems of ptraiarchal hierarchies in Islam.

Fitna is a lazy pack of lies.

[yingyangboy89]

8bikcat: Who are you trying to kid? Did you see any Reconstructions in the fitna movie? It's all fact, so how can that Possibly be Propaganda?

Your out of your mind, and you should research some History and Mathematics about islam before you try and fill youtube with stupidity..

[alabam5]

Peaceful Muslims and ex-Muslims have to start taking more responsibility when it comes to extreme Muslims. If they took a stand when living in a western country, it may make it safer for us all, since these extremists hate the indiginous people so much.

[pikechris1]

here they get slightly better than in the first part...

[pikechris1]

in the sense of asking "us" to look into the mirror. in other words, we should rethink "our" foreign policies.

[skeptic551]

Islamist terror was nonexistent when the muslim countries were still under colonial rule.

Good idea to think about that again.

[pokeralho2008]

Excellent discussion. Very lucid and correct argumentation. Why aren't you more popular than that idiotic film Fitna? Thanks!!

[skeptic551]

At 1:44 it is stated:

"It's not enough to tell the truth about certain things."

Well, it is a start isn't it ?

It is better than telling the lies of the religions and

It is better than doing the violence of the religions.

[skeptic551]

The discussion on Islam started here in a way very different from other countries. January 2000 Dutch university professor Paul Scheffer (Labour party member) publicised a well-known and shocking essay "Het Multiculturele Drama" about the problems of low-class Muslim youth in our cities in so far as they were under the influence of authoritarian Islamic ideology.

He advised us to challenge that.

[skeptic551]

In this video after 6:40 i hear this man say that oppression of islamic regimes was 'not shown on TV' before the attack of september 11th 2001.

I dont know how it was in Britain, but here in the Netherlands public opinion was very well aware of the absurd cruelty of Islamic regimes long before that.

TV reported it, newspapers did too.

[skeptic551]

The distinction between foreign state ideology on the one hand and immigrants on the other hand is well understood here, the law forces us to do so while criticising the problems.

[mrlurp]

They want to criticize the maker of Fitna yet they want people prosecuted for criticizing Islam. Can you say irony?

[PiroNiro]

"yet they want people prosecuted for criticizing Islam."

Who does?

[mrlurp]

Those who are for sharia law.

[PiroNiro]

Ah OK.

[mrlurp]

Sorry was a showing ignorance in some way? I admit Im not very smart but what I got from these videos was a complaint that all Muslims were put into one category as insane religious nuts by the Fitna movie, where I would say to that they who feel guilty need to apply.

Not trying to get on your good side here but Im a fan of your channel.

[PiroNiro]

"Sorry was a showing ignorance in some way?"

No no no! I didn't mean anything like that at all. When you said they wanted to persecute people for criticizing Islam, I thought you were talking about the people speaking in this interview as opposed to those Muslims you were referring to!

I get mixed up with the pronouns sometimes.

All the best.

[kendrawhisp]

@mrlurp These people are criticizing the makers of fitna, AND they are criticizing islam as well. These peeps are ex muslims and that lady i think is the leader of "one law for all", a group against the implimentation of sharia law in the uk.

[tattypatty]

This is all liberal bullshit guilt. Theo Van Gogh died like a fucking animal on the street. If a muslim cleric were stabbed to death on a Western European street, there would be violent protests and bloodshed in every capital...

[TheAtheistPaladin]

Agreed.

[yerk3]

@tattypatty What does that have to do with the truth of what is being said in this video?