Well at the moment I'm looking into the land of canaan and its interesting that the hebrew and arabic languages both stem from the same place. The arabs and the jews how lived in peace together for so long in history its a wonder where it all went wrong. Hopefully it will come back round again to a state where jews, arabs muslim or otherwise can exist in peace together.
Yeah. You should check out "Under Crescent and Cross," by Mark Cohen. It compares the station of Middle Age Jews under Christian rule to that of those under rule int he Islamic Empires, which was more favorable. It really came down to the collision of two nationalisms vying for the same piece of land one of which was much more well organized and funded. I really think the one-state solution is the only truly moral solution but it's not really on the radar.
@BigSpoon19 I'll look it up thanks. I'm holding a speaker's night at my uni next thursday and I might be going to /gaza with an aid convoy in December.
Thank you for trying to bring reasoning to this guy. It scares me that people give in to the Israel/ american propaganda like this when you consider the plight of the Palestine people. The real Jewish heros of this world are the ones who condemned the Gaza war and the occupation of Palestine land.
Thanks very much for the comment. It's a terribly frustrating debate to have with many people in this country because of the distorted way the whole issue is framed by people of all political stripes.
@BigSpoon19 I might be going to Gaza in December and I'm doing a dissertation on the different media outlets and how they portray the conflict. Truth will rise eventually just as long as people like yourself keep on correcting the misconceptions.
That's fascinating. I'd love to see what you find. I was actually strongly considering going to graduate school for media studies and that was precisely the type of thing that attracted me to that field: Studying how the media affects our views of conflicts, especially how distortions and universally accepted myths shape public policy. How important is the ahistorical myth of the tiny, besieged Israel? Why are Palestinians "terrorists," while friendly groups are "freedom fighters?"
How do you propose to "destroy" Hamas? It's not possible and until the legitimate grievances of the Palestinians are addressed any loss of prestige for Hamas would only allow other groups to fill the void. Hamas is a very complex organization (I know how you hate complexity) and is a legitimate representative of a significant segment of the Palestinian population. Their point of view must be dealt with. Additionally, they've shown themselves to be a pragmatic agent in the area.
HAMAS point of view is Kill all Jews, and also it is their point of view in practice. HAMAS never cared for 2 stae solution, they care for destruction of Isreal, and the fact that Palestenians have chosen HAMAS as their leaders based on this ideology , just goes to show the sentiment of these people. Yes its unfortuate that Israel had to be in the place where all these murderous pigs are. I wish it was somewhere else.
You don't know what you're talking about and need to study Hamas more carefully. They have backed off of their extreme position quite a bit. The choice of Hamas shows the frustration of the Palestinians at the corruption of Fateh and their inability to get anything done with largely obstructionist Israeli leaders.
As for your last statement: you are a racist and a particularly ignorant one at that.
Far from being ignorant, however YOU living in your comfy place where not a single bomb falls or a single person carryes out a suicide mission *thankfully" Yet theer you sit blabing your mouth as how HAMAS is now cuddly and furry like a little bunny. Your ignorance to the subject is showing clearly. HAMAS AND ANY ORGANIZATION which promotes attacks on israel must be destroyed. And the only Grevience of HAMAS is the existance of Israel. calling me racist isnt going to help ur point.
So, why don't you explain to me how it is justifiable to view Hamas in this cartoonish, simplistic light? Why don't you demonstrate to me that you understand the first thing about the complex social, political and military organization that is Hamas? How about explaining why Israel funded Hamas?
My location has nothing to do with the argument. Discuss the points I made; don't make idiotic ad hom arguments. You classified an ethnic group as "murderous pigs." That's racist. Care to clarify?
It should be destroyed but Israel attacking Gaza ended up causing a spike in Hamas's recruitment. No one should support Hamas, but at the very least, we need to understand why the Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas and why they elected them into office, they often have claimed that Fatah was corrupt and failed to meet their needs.
Also, one fact about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is that is often suppressed in the Western Media is that although Hamas may have some "Anti-Semitic" (I put that in quotes as the Semites are Arabs and most Israelis are not, but anyway, Hamas dislikes Jews), that is not the reason that they are supported by the Palestinians. Hamas is actually a humanitarian orgainization...WAIT WTF...yes you heard me right HAMAS IS HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATION which provide healthcare, housing, and "education."
First of all please clarify when you say "They hate the Jews" are you referring to all Palestinians or just Hamas??
What you've just said may be true but it is a red herring. I never said that we should see Hamas as heroes or support them, but if you seriously want to see a peace process, we need to, at the very least, understand why Palestinians support Hamas, and I told you Hamas, despite its rockets on Israel, is a Humanitarian organization for Palestinians .
Jewish hate caught on tape. this is what contributed to terrorism. the Palestinians been subject to this since 1947 by force using tanks, bullets, bombs, IDF destroyed their homes like in this video
Actually, contrary to the claims of most television commentators, Hamas did NOT break the ceasefire. Israel broke the ceasefire by killing 6 members of Hamas inside Gaza. As you say, they did not live up to the terms of the ceasefire in the first place because they never lifted the blockade. These are crucial facts for people to understand if they want to understand what is really going on.
lol i love science.... and science is not the debate at all, just some things in it that doesn't make up the whole of it, such as evolution and theories of origins.
I'm not sure what you're replying to here...did you post on the wrong video? Did you receive my message/email? I had thought you were interested in some kind of discussion.
is the only measure of suffering is the number of corpses? people in the south of israel live under bombardment for 8 years!
many children will have psychologic scars forever! yet I'm sure that the palestinian children suffer greatly as well.
No side benifit from this war but it's unheard of that a country can't defend its citizens. I mentiond Black september to show you that all around the world people see almost only what the jewish\isreli people are doing and not what arabs do to arabs...
No, that's not the only measure of suffering but there is a matter of scale. As you point out, there's a lot of suffering and it's not all about deaths but people only want to talk about the suffering of people on their side of the issue.
Again, not only does the "we have to be able to defend ourselves" argument ignore the historical context of the conflict, but there is also the fact that from their perspective, Hamas is working to defend the Palestinians. This is not "good vs. evil."
The fact is supplies are transferred into gaza but nobofy bothered to say it. the HAMAS dug those tunnels not to bring basic supplies for their people.
another point I want to remind you is that there is another part of the palestinians people located at the west-bank if israel is evil and want only to harm the palestinian people why they are not bombed or kiiled?
I also want to remind you that the HAMAS is a terrorist organization they publicly stated they want all infidels gone! Everyone...
Independent aid organizations have characterized the situation in Gaza as a humanitarian crisis. Clearly, not enough supplies are getting in. I never said Israel is evil. There are, however, elements of Israeli society that are only interested in the Israeli side and don't want peace if it means giving up anything. Hamas gained credibility among the Palestinians because they were an non-corrupt social organization. Why did Israel FUND Hamas as a competitor to Fatah? Nobody talks about that.
I don't understand this notion that the Gazans who build these tunnels would ONLY bring weapons. As if, under this blockade and during a humanitarian crisis, if somebody had some civilian supplies to bring through the tunnels they would be denied...nonsense. What does Black September have to do with Israel's offensive on Gaza? How many people have died in 8 years? Palestinians have been in limbo for 60 years. The point is that it is NEVER as simple as people like Del try to make it.
JEWS are an abomination of civilised society. read this verses to know for your self/ 1samuel.chapter15 the 3 first verses that ask jews to kill enfents and newborn babies women without mercy
it is hard to find people who are willing to speak the truth. You are one of those rare people, and just wanted to show my appreciation. Continue the good gob.
You make the assertion that the Palestinians must dig tunnels under the border of Egypt just to get baby food into Gaza.Why do you think this is?Does Egypt prohibit the trafficking of baby formula?This sounds hard for me to believe.You state that this conflict goes back a long time.Can you date this conflict for me?I am trying to learn more about this issue.I am also not sure why you refer to Del's comments as talking points and propaganda of the right or from conservatives.Does the left differ?
oh I forgot to ask..are the Hamas rockets intended to end the Israeli "blockade" or the Egyptian "blockade"? Maybe they should shoot some of those rockets at the Egyptians..what do you think about that as a tactic?
I think the Palestinians as a whole have been pushed in the direction of the extremists because many have been made to feel as though there is no other course of action. I do think that terrorism works to some extent--ask the Israelis who committed terrorism against the British in Palestine during the Mandate. I don't like it as a tactic--I personally don't want to see rockets fired at civilian populations and I don't like to see the Israeli response. Many Palestinians feel they have no choice.
Egypt has certainly participated in the blockade which at times has prevented any supplies from entering Gaza--certainly in sufficient volumes. The first Arab-Israeli War was in 1948 but the conflict goes back to the 1880s, when the first Zionists started moving to Palestine--mostly from Russia and Eastern Europe as a response to antisemitism and pogroms there. Del's comments were talking points. The left has them too and they are no more useful.
You weren't giving "facts" at all. You were giving your analysis of events (which happened to be common right-wing talking points) and opinion on what course of action the Israeli government should take. I provided a differing position...
What you're really saying is that you watched my video and realized that you probably don't have a good argument and so have decided to avoid the discussion. Rather than finding a cop-out, why don't you show me where I'm wrong?
Actually, you didn't source anything...not that it matters.
You seem to really struggle with the difference between so-called "facts" and right-wing propaganda.
I'm not copping out--I'm right here waiting for a response that I know will never come. I am actually glad because it has become clear that you're not interested in a thoughtful debate. You want to spout rhetoric and then when you're challenged by somebody who knows just a little bit about the situation, you become dismissive...
Thanks for NOT being a Neocon tool and spewing Neocon garbage and PNAC talking points.
I would correct you one item. We are not just Americans, we are U.S. citizens. The difference being that we am are not members of South American, Central American, Mexican nor Canadian sovereignty.
a) you are using logic over emotion and it is based in facts, not ideology
b) your synopsis is actually fair and balanced
c) your positions do not create divisiveness nor reinforce the status quo R v. D, D v. R, Left/Right, Us/Them binary view of the world from a North American perspective.
So many U.S. citizens have been reduced to Hamsters on a wheel by media. You can spin CW/CCW, but at the end of the day, their still in a cage.
israel will kill all arabs, women and children included.
Israel 4ever
livesounds2010 2 years ago
And the U.S. will pay for it. Hurray for freedom!
BigSpoon19 2 years ago
yes they will
livesounds2010 2 years ago
Well at the moment I'm looking into the land of canaan and its interesting that the hebrew and arabic languages both stem from the same place. The arabs and the jews how lived in peace together for so long in history its a wonder where it all went wrong. Hopefully it will come back round again to a state where jews, arabs muslim or otherwise can exist in peace together.
DaneVincentVid 2 years ago
Yeah. You should check out "Under Crescent and Cross," by Mark Cohen. It compares the station of Middle Age Jews under Christian rule to that of those under rule int he Islamic Empires, which was more favorable. It really came down to the collision of two nationalisms vying for the same piece of land one of which was much more well organized and funded. I really think the one-state solution is the only truly moral solution but it's not really on the radar.
BigSpoon19 2 years ago
@BigSpoon19 I'll look it up thanks. I'm holding a speaker's night at my uni next thursday and I might be going to /gaza with an aid convoy in December.
DaneVincentVid 2 years ago
Thank you for trying to bring reasoning to this guy. It scares me that people give in to the Israel/ american propaganda like this when you consider the plight of the Palestine people. The real Jewish heros of this world are the ones who condemned the Gaza war and the occupation of Palestine land.
DaneVincentVid 2 years ago
Thanks very much for the comment. It's a terribly frustrating debate to have with many people in this country because of the distorted way the whole issue is framed by people of all political stripes.
BigSpoon19 2 years ago
@BigSpoon19 I might be going to Gaza in December and I'm doing a dissertation on the different media outlets and how they portray the conflict. Truth will rise eventually just as long as people like yourself keep on correcting the misconceptions.
DaneVincentVid 2 years ago
That's fascinating. I'd love to see what you find. I was actually strongly considering going to graduate school for media studies and that was precisely the type of thing that attracted me to that field: Studying how the media affects our views of conflicts, especially how distortions and universally accepted myths shape public policy. How important is the ahistorical myth of the tiny, besieged Israel? Why are Palestinians "terrorists," while friendly groups are "freedom fighters?"
BigSpoon19 2 years ago
Thanks for this video
The world needs more people like who show the world that you can be Pro-Palestinian and Pro-Israeli without killing the other half of yourself.
Peace/Shalom/Salaam
ua1001 2 years ago
Thank you for the comment and the kind words. I appreciate it.
Peace.
BigSpoon19 2 years ago
why shouldnt hamas be destroyed?
MrXbox36067946794 2 years ago
How do you propose to "destroy" Hamas? It's not possible and until the legitimate grievances of the Palestinians are addressed any loss of prestige for Hamas would only allow other groups to fill the void. Hamas is a very complex organization (I know how you hate complexity) and is a legitimate representative of a significant segment of the Palestinian population. Their point of view must be dealt with. Additionally, they've shown themselves to be a pragmatic agent in the area.
BigSpoon19 2 years ago
HAMAS point of view is Kill all Jews, and also it is their point of view in practice. HAMAS never cared for 2 stae solution, they care for destruction of Isreal, and the fact that Palestenians have chosen HAMAS as their leaders based on this ideology , just goes to show the sentiment of these people. Yes its unfortuate that Israel had to be in the place where all these murderous pigs are. I wish it was somewhere else.
samuils 2 years ago
You don't know what you're talking about and need to study Hamas more carefully. They have backed off of their extreme position quite a bit. The choice of Hamas shows the frustration of the Palestinians at the corruption of Fateh and their inability to get anything done with largely obstructionist Israeli leaders.
As for your last statement: you are a racist and a particularly ignorant one at that.
BigSpoon19 2 years ago
Far from being ignorant, however YOU living in your comfy place where not a single bomb falls or a single person carryes out a suicide mission *thankfully" Yet theer you sit blabing your mouth as how HAMAS is now cuddly and furry like a little bunny. Your ignorance to the subject is showing clearly. HAMAS AND ANY ORGANIZATION which promotes attacks on israel must be destroyed. And the only Grevience of HAMAS is the existance of Israel. calling me racist isnt going to help ur point.
samuils 2 years ago
So, why don't you explain to me how it is justifiable to view Hamas in this cartoonish, simplistic light? Why don't you demonstrate to me that you understand the first thing about the complex social, political and military organization that is Hamas? How about explaining why Israel funded Hamas?
My location has nothing to do with the argument. Discuss the points I made; don't make idiotic ad hom arguments. You classified an ethnic group as "murderous pigs." That's racist. Care to clarify?
BigSpoon19 2 years ago
It should be destroyed but Israel attacking Gaza ended up causing a spike in Hamas's recruitment. No one should support Hamas, but at the very least, we need to understand why the Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas and why they elected them into office, they often have claimed that Fatah was corrupt and failed to meet their needs.
ua1001 2 years ago
Also, one fact about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is that is often suppressed in the Western Media is that although Hamas may have some "Anti-Semitic" (I put that in quotes as the Semites are Arabs and most Israelis are not, but anyway, Hamas dislikes Jews), that is not the reason that they are supported by the Palestinians. Hamas is actually a humanitarian orgainization...WAIT WTF...yes you heard me right HAMAS IS HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATION which provide healthcare, housing, and "education."
ua1001 2 years ago
you realize that they hate the jews to the point they would kill themselves to kill all the jews
MrXbox36067946794 2 years ago
@MrXbox
First of all please clarify when you say "They hate the Jews" are you referring to all Palestinians or just Hamas??
What you've just said may be true but it is a red herring. I never said that we should see Hamas as heroes or support them, but if you seriously want to see a peace process, we need to, at the very least, understand why Palestinians support Hamas, and I told you Hamas, despite its rockets on Israel, is a Humanitarian organization for Palestinians .
ua1001 2 years ago
free our Palestine!
xxXxheartlessxXxx 2 years ago
ARABS ARE SEMITIC. THEY CANT BE ANTI-SEMITIC. That's like saying I'm anti-blacks but only some blacks.
arafat2spy 3 years ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
"Children of Gaza - 2009 Holocaust"
watch?v=i5dQpEAyTyE
ssaleen2010 3 years ago
watch?v=hefIti-uFUo (copy/paste in search box)
Jewish hate caught on tape. this is what contributed to terrorism. the Palestinians been subject to this since 1947 by force using tanks, bullets, bombs, IDF destroyed their homes like in this video
-- watch?v=zZEd48_vL4A
and used Palestinians as human shields
1. watch?v=hAU8N-TQEdA
2. watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU
who is terrorist ?
ssaleen2010 3 years ago
Actually, contrary to the claims of most television commentators, Hamas did NOT break the ceasefire. Israel broke the ceasefire by killing 6 members of Hamas inside Gaza. As you say, they did not live up to the terms of the ceasefire in the first place because they never lifted the blockade. These are crucial facts for people to understand if they want to understand what is really going on.
n8glenn 3 years ago
Thanks for the comment. I appreciate the clarification.
BigSpoon19 3 years ago
lol i love science.... and science is not the debate at all, just some things in it that doesn't make up the whole of it, such as evolution and theories of origins.
StarSedition 2 years ago
I'm not sure what you're replying to here...did you post on the wrong video? Did you receive my message/email? I had thought you were interested in some kind of discussion.
BigSpoon19 2 years ago
is the only measure of suffering is the number of corpses? people in the south of israel live under bombardment for 8 years!
many children will have psychologic scars forever! yet I'm sure that the palestinian children suffer greatly as well.
No side benifit from this war but it's unheard of that a country can't defend its citizens. I mentiond Black september to show you that all around the world people see almost only what the jewish\isreli people are doing and not what arabs do to arabs...
Itayls 3 years ago
No, that's not the only measure of suffering but there is a matter of scale. As you point out, there's a lot of suffering and it's not all about deaths but people only want to talk about the suffering of people on their side of the issue.
Again, not only does the "we have to be able to defend ourselves" argument ignore the historical context of the conflict, but there is also the fact that from their perspective, Hamas is working to defend the Palestinians. This is not "good vs. evil."
BigSpoon19 3 years ago
"Children of Gaza - 2009 Holocaust"
watch?v=i5dQpEAyTyE
ssaleen2010 3 years ago
The fact is supplies are transferred into gaza but nobofy bothered to say it. the HAMAS dug those tunnels not to bring basic supplies for their people.
another point I want to remind you is that there is another part of the palestinians people located at the west-bank if israel is evil and want only to harm the palestinian people why they are not bombed or kiiled?
I also want to remind you that the HAMAS is a terrorist organization they publicly stated they want all infidels gone! Everyone...
Itayls 3 years ago
Independent aid organizations have characterized the situation in Gaza as a humanitarian crisis. Clearly, not enough supplies are getting in. I never said Israel is evil. There are, however, elements of Israeli society that are only interested in the Israeli side and don't want peace if it means giving up anything. Hamas gained credibility among the Palestinians because they were an non-corrupt social organization. Why did Israel FUND Hamas as a competitor to Fatah? Nobody talks about that.
BigSpoon19 3 years ago
Well, you are so worng.
the tunnels aren't meant to deliver food and basic supplies... the only things passed through the tunnels are weapons.
The HAMAS used all the money it got from europe and the rest of the world to buy more guns and weapons.
Check the history man, the jordanian king killed more Palestinians than israel ever killed in black september
you seem like an inteligent man, can you imagine this:the city of SDEROT is being bombed for 8 YEARS!! by none other than terrorists.
Itayls 3 years ago
I don't understand this notion that the Gazans who build these tunnels would ONLY bring weapons. As if, under this blockade and during a humanitarian crisis, if somebody had some civilian supplies to bring through the tunnels they would be denied...nonsense. What does Black September have to do with Israel's offensive on Gaza? How many people have died in 8 years? Palestinians have been in limbo for 60 years. The point is that it is NEVER as simple as people like Del try to make it.
BigSpoon19 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
JEWS are an abomination of civilised society. read this verses to know for your self/ 1samuel.chapter15 the 3 first verses that ask jews to kill enfents and newborn babies women without mercy
garyteams 3 years ago
This is ridiculous. What, exactly does the Bible verse you cited have to do with anything? This nonsense is a huge part of the problem...
Please stop posting this comment. You've posted it once. Any further postings of the same comment will be removed as spam.
BigSpoon19 3 years ago
thanks. I dont know anything about the Middle east.
jon2xu 3 years ago
Thanks for watching and for the comment.
BigSpoon19 3 years ago
this is a good video keep up the good job.
hayman4548213 3 years ago
Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
BigSpoon19 3 years ago
it is hard to find people who are willing to speak the truth. You are one of those rare people, and just wanted to show my appreciation. Continue the good gob.
hayman4548213 3 years ago
Best view on the situation yet! 5 stars
killemall4130 3 years ago
Thank you. I appreciate it.
BigSpoon19 3 years ago
You make the assertion that the Palestinians must dig tunnels under the border of Egypt just to get baby food into Gaza.Why do you think this is?Does Egypt prohibit the trafficking of baby formula?This sounds hard for me to believe.You state that this conflict goes back a long time.Can you date this conflict for me?I am trying to learn more about this issue.I am also not sure why you refer to Del's comments as talking points and propaganda of the right or from conservatives.Does the left differ?
buzzmaxwell 3 years ago
oh I forgot to ask..are the Hamas rockets intended to end the Israeli "blockade" or the Egyptian "blockade"? Maybe they should shoot some of those rockets at the Egyptians..what do you think about that as a tactic?
buzzmaxwell 3 years ago
I think the Palestinians as a whole have been pushed in the direction of the extremists because many have been made to feel as though there is no other course of action. I do think that terrorism works to some extent--ask the Israelis who committed terrorism against the British in Palestine during the Mandate. I don't like it as a tactic--I personally don't want to see rockets fired at civilian populations and I don't like to see the Israeli response. Many Palestinians feel they have no choice.
BigSpoon19 3 years ago
Egypt has certainly participated in the blockade which at times has prevented any supplies from entering Gaza--certainly in sufficient volumes. The first Arab-Israeli War was in 1948 but the conflict goes back to the 1880s, when the first Zionists started moving to Palestine--mostly from Russia and Eastern Europe as a response to antisemitism and pogroms there. Del's comments were talking points. The left has them too and they are no more useful.
BigSpoon19 3 years ago
Don't dismiss facts as "talking points" I ended the video right there...
RevolutionOfCG 3 years ago
You weren't giving "facts" at all. You were giving your analysis of events (which happened to be common right-wing talking points) and opinion on what course of action the Israeli government should take. I provided a differing position...
What you're really saying is that you watched my video and realized that you probably don't have a good argument and so have decided to avoid the discussion. Rather than finding a cop-out, why don't you show me where I'm wrong?
BigSpoon19 3 years ago
My claims were sourced and the authors are credible.
You are the one copping-out.
It is not I who must disprove you. You haven't disproved me.
RevolutionOfCG 3 years ago
Actually, you didn't source anything...not that it matters.
You seem to really struggle with the difference between so-called "facts" and right-wing propaganda.
I'm not copping out--I'm right here waiting for a response that I know will never come. I am actually glad because it has become clear that you're not interested in a thoughtful debate. You want to spout rhetoric and then when you're challenged by somebody who knows just a little bit about the situation, you become dismissive...
BigSpoon19 3 years ago
Thanks for NOT being a Neocon tool and spewing Neocon garbage and PNAC talking points.
I would correct you one item. We are not just Americans, we are U.S. citizens. The difference being that we am are not members of South American, Central American, Mexican nor Canadian sovereignty.
Frequencitee 3 years ago
Pardon the Rain-Man syntax errors - should read "we are not members...".
I am working on my second gallon of coffee and these are definitely not my underwear.
Frequencitee 3 years ago
Fair enough.
BigSpoon19 3 years ago
I gave this Five stars for many reasons.
Namely:
a) you are using logic over emotion and it is based in facts, not ideology
b) your synopsis is actually fair and balanced
c) your positions do not create divisiveness nor reinforce the status quo R v. D, D v. R, Left/Right, Us/Them binary view of the world from a North American perspective.
So many U.S. citizens have been reduced to Hamsters on a wheel by media. You can spin CW/CCW, but at the end of the day, their still in a cage.
Frequencitee 3 years ago
Thank you for the kind words. I appreciate it.
BigSpoon19 3 years ago
Free Free Palestine
SyriaSteps 3 years ago