Bc it is his farking life. He was drafted and was asked to kill gooky strangers. Oh my, how he sat there and watch a VC bled to death on that rice field, flesh and guts and yelow fluid rushed out from wounds yet still struggle to crawl out of that dung hole so he can died in dignity. No, the GI is not suppose to responsible for that. It's those losers depressive H.O. that lost the war!! And on that rice field, monsoon rains can wash it all away....guilt, hate, depression of the minds.
@cobrachoppergirl. You dumb fuck!! The military is controlled by politicians in the end, so blame them. Second, what our military is doing is dismantling terrorist organizations on foreign soil. We are on good terms with Afghanistan's government, obviously not the assholes trying to attack America. Have you forgotten 9/11?!
@Profusion55 You poor naive baby, or, you stupid brainwashed fuck. The military is not dismantling any terrorists because the US military are the terrorists (controlled by the corrupt politicians), and they are aiding in the installation of corrupt puppet governments in resource rich countries so the USA can rape those sovereign nations of their riches. In this day and age of almost unlimited information, how can you still beleive the crap that's spewed in the mainstream media !!!!
@Profusion55 And 9/11 ??? Really, what kind of a deaf dumb and blind man are you !!! The US was meddling and murdering overseas long before it was hit back with 9/11. What kind of a stupid justification is that !!! Don't you know about all the killing the USA has done since the second world war in countries that have not done a single thing to the USA ??? The USA has invaded and murdered innocents in countries that didn't even have an army (Panama), and you pull a 9/11 out of your arse ???
all studies done on the GI movements showed that it was more often than not the volunteers making waves,doing drugs and killing fellow soldiers. draftees as a rule are better behaved more law abiding people who usually just kept out of trouble and honorably served out the enlistment.
I think your lying. by the languaging you use,I think you are the typical collage grad lib who tries to sound smarter than every one else. But cant succeed at anything. If you can stay focused ,Tell me who is a "fascist" and what do they do? I've never heard a real combat vet use the word like you did.
@fxstsharleyrider I am a vet and I still do not understand why people who believe in fighting for freedom and democracy insult people who exercise their freedom in a democratic way. But what is clear is that your use of language ideology (in its most vulgar form) clearly indicates that you are most likely a fascist.
A nation can not be defended by the sheep who whine and bitch about every little thing. The sheep, if called upon duty, in order to defend other sheeps retreats with anger and remorse and does not care about nothing other than their safety. The Wolf when called upon duty, with sadness, leaves his beloved one to answer the called, For he know that it must be done if he wants safety for his pups. True be that the wolf needs the sheep but not as much as the sheep needs the wolf.
@pablo19852000 I'm sick of this facetious argument that the military is "defending my freedom" and "protecting me". On the contrary, the military is doing anything but that. They are pissing off people around the world, turning the world against Americans. Get this straight. The only person who will defend YOUR FREEDOM is YOU YOURSELF. The state and its military arm has no interest at all in defending your freedom, on the contrary, they're drive is to erode it as much as possible.
@cobrachoppergirl O yes u are so right. True there should be no Cops, and above all no Military, only YOU can defend your rights. By the way how did you get those right??, were they magically placed upon you?? The answer its no, they were earned through blood spilled on a battlefield and suffering of others who wanted u to have those freedoms. Lets say we fallow your believes and we disarm the government and the Military? what then? we just sitting ducks for others to place upon us their will.
@pablo19852000 You said "we just sitting ducks for others to place upon us their will" if you disarm the army. So that obviously means the US are imposing their will on anyone they like since their army is bigger than anyone elses, which is the damn truth. But, I don't think that is what you intended to say, so, your reasoning is stupid. cobrachoppergirl didn't even say anywhere to get rid of army or police so you're stupid.
@pablo19852000 And rights are deteriorating pretty quickly in police state USA, along with jobs because of greedy corporations looking for cheap labour, and huge military industrial complex spending, so, you're stupid.
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Just know that this same sort of pussy-passive attitude before 911 is what led to an attack on the US and consequently war in the middle East. Want to see what happens when Americans can't take no more... In YouTube Search: Let the bodies hit the floor
FSTV has been airing the entire movie repeatedly for several days now. Its beautifully directed and edited, and gives me a glimmer of hope that the men and women inside the military may hold the key to ending the current - seemingly endless - War on Terror. So, servicemen and women, do your part: go AWOL, refuse orders, frag that pig, stir up dissent, fail to create useful intel, and END THE WAR. The war is a farce and always was.
Good, because that's the plan. Be sure to say 'thank you' the next time to partake of some frivolous joy you take for granted, because it was brought to you via oil and the uber rich.
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These guys were a complete disgrace for the US Army; they think they were soldiers, I say they were just pseudo-pacifists assholes...
If you're not a natural born soldier, just do us a favour: don't join the Army.
Perhaps these assholes should learn something about many of the soldiers who fought there (McCain, Kerry, etc.), not only because they acted as SOLDIERS, but also because Vietnam was an INEVITABLE war within the Cold War context...
Of course if the activists tried this in any of the nations they love so much like Vietnam, Cuba, ect they would not be around to be stars of a documentary today.
You clearly did not watch the documentary. This is an URBAN LEGEND exposed (with strong evidence) in the film. In fact, soldiers came back to military bases where it was impossible for protesters to get close enough to spit. Every protest I was in included vets and civilians who had the utmost respect for soldiers--our family and friends--and did not want to see their lives "used stupidly or carelessly or for unworthy ends" as Marine Tobias Wolff wrote in his Vietnam memoir "In Pharoah's Army."
Conseratvies create bogus myths so they will not have to deal with issues where they are in the wrong...
Soldiers returned from Vietnam to US Air bases...like Travis AFB in California...according to RIght Wing mythology...they were greeted by sandal wearing hippies who spat on them. Since when where peace loving hippes allowed on air force bases to greet the troops?
Soldiers were never returned to the base, they were always transported to a local plane to take them to a San Fransisco airport. Spitting has happened to many soldiers, here in Canada and the states its an actual fact. Spitting gotten so bad that soldiers would remove their uniform and back into Civilian clothes and which in question hippies found out what they were doing and spat on everyone they could. Everyone needs to go and look at the facts for themselves, too understand the best.
I thought sandal wearing hippes only hung out at airports back then. The point is that most of them were and still are traitors and liars. Thank God for WWII. If you want to save millions of lives, misery and destruction, start another war and quickly before radical fundamentalists hit us first. Iran is less than 1 year away from gaining nuclear capabilities. OH Yeah, it's for peacefull purposes... another Myth I suppose.
@SpamburgerHelper any vietnam vet would tell you had they where treated when they come home ass wipe they where treated like shit period when the vets where just doing there job over there trying to live to come back home so fuck you
DONT STOP OR ELSE SOMETHING BAD WILL HAPPEN MY NAME IS JENNY I AM 7 WITH RED HAIR MY MOTHER BEATS ME I LIVE IN A CELL WITH NO WINDOWS DOORS AND NO LIGHT I HAVE RED SCARY EYES AND IHAVE NO NOSE OR EARS I AM DEAD IF YOU DONT SEND THIS TO 15PPL B4 U GO TO BED I WILL APPEAR 2NIGHT WITH A KNIFE AND KILL U THIS IS NO JOKE SOMETHING GOOD WILL HAPPEN TO U AT 10:22 SOMEONE WILL CALL YOU OR TALK TO YOU ONLINE AND SAY I LOVE YOU OR ASK YOU OUT BUT HERES THE CATCH Send To 15 vids
We won the Cold War because the Soviets bankrupt themselves in the race to acquire nuclear weapons, not because the Soviet Union collapsed after Vietnam. This movie is about army resistance to the Vietnam War. Where was the domino effect? Where was Communist Chinese domination of Asia? Where was France's collapse? It was nowhere, and to denigrate the troops that realized that this was, for them, a disgusting joke is so cruel and misguided as to be reprehensible. You should be ashamed.
Soviets bankrupted themselves in the arms race to acquire nuclear weapons because THERE WAS AN ARMS RACE. We did not give up like the turncoats in this film wanted. They should be ashamed and many of them are today.
I have to write a skilled work about what impact the vietnam war had to the USA.. my topic is: the USA after the vietnam war - how the country sees itself.
can someone help me please? i'm a student in germany. thanks
I think you meant to type NVA (not NLF) and VC is also correct.
NVA = North Vietnemese Army
VC = Viet Cong (they were the south vietnamese who organised and fought against the US and allied forces in vietnam.
NLF = How a dislexic person spells the NFL
>>The fact that the NLF (often incorrectly called VC) endured so much while the ARVN wouldn't put up a 5 minute fight is proof enough for me that they were the right side.
This was a great video... I got it from my library. There is a tremendous difference between the Vietnam war and the war in Iraq. Our soldiers are now ALL VOLUNTEERS.
Yes, but many people volunteer because they believe the lies they're told about war by idiots who glorify it and join thinking it's a noble thing to do only to realize they were lied to.
Volunteers have even more of a right to be angry than draftees because they willingly went only to discover the lies.
Majordirtbag2, get fucked numbnuts and all of you other cry baby chicken shit fucks. Janes's a fucken Ho,traitor and a shitbag. Wonder how many commie gooks she sucked off over there?
Hey liberal fool, you probably were proud when that commie HO sat on a VC cannon and sided with the communists. Thats a liberal for ya! Your no different, your just another commie liberal....make us happy....eat shit and die!
hahahahaha commie fool! thats classic where are you from TEXAS the home of rednecks hahahaha you sound like a no hoper oohhhh whatch out for those communists! the most evil people in the world, ooohhhh geez im so scared of fidel Castro ohh no! look here brainless fuck if you knew ANYTHING about history you would not be talking like that so shut the fuck up.
At least she was willing to give support to the right side as opposed to a neo-con retard like you, who thinks every dissendent is a commie.
Personally, I admire anyone who's willing to spend months fighting in tiny cramped tunnels against a military with overwhelming technological superiority and firepower.
The fact that the NLF (often incorrectly called VC) endured so much while the ARVN wouldn't put up a 5 minute fight is proof enough for me that they were the right side.
At least she was willing to give support to the right side as opposed to a neo-con retard like you, who thinks every dissendent is a commie.
Personally, I admire anyone who's willing to spend months fighting in tiny cramped tunnels against a military with overwhelming technological superiority and firepower.
The fact that the NLF (often incorrectly called VC) endured so much while the ARVN wouldn't put up a 5 minute fight is proof enough for me that they were the right side.
I bet you love Nixon too you fucking halfwit, why the fuck are you even on here you fucking patriotic (Im gonna have sotomy sessions with uncle sam) stereotype american. no you do me a favour never travel the world, stay in you "safe little world" you paranoid fuck stay in your redneck town.
becasue if you do travel the COMMIES WILL GET YOU fucking brainwashed peice of shit!
i like how people try to talk. they just gonna get there ass wooped thats why they dont do anything. all they can do is talk...no action but talking. they pussy bitches and will always be.
Gen. David M. Shoup, USMC, who received the Medal of Honor in WWll; became Commandant of the Marine Corps in the early 1960s, publicly railed against America's continuous interventions and wars. Statement in 1966.
if we would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar- soaked fingers out of the business of these nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution on their own. And if unfortunately their revolution must be of the violent type because the 'haves' refuse to share with the 'have-nots' by any peaceful methods, at least what they get will be their own and not the American style, which they don't want and above all don't want crammed down their throats by Americans.
We no longer have a democracy. King George has seen to that! There were thousands on voted for George Bush in those damnable voting machines before the polls even opened. No people, voting doesnt make any difference any longer. Our Democracy has been hijacked!
Im LMAO at ya....whenever the GOP wins, its a fix or rigged voting machines. The sad part is that liberal assholes believe it....which is why they are liberals. LMAO...oh, too bad she didn't get shot down.
The USA should never overthrow president diem then VIETNAM will not a communist country now,because as long as president diem lead VIETNAM then people around the world will never saw boat people,reeducation camp,and VIETNAM will not poor and behind the world now!BONJOUR VIETNAM!
i was born on one of the bases mentioned here..my father was very close to being shipped out..until he had a mild heartattack..probably from the strong protests!..saved his life and he was with me! and still is.
March Sept. 15th IMPEACH PRESIDENT BUSH....there is also an anti war Die-In.. to represent all the dead from this war..BE THERE
Yeah call it historical revisionism. I guess all the authors who wrote about the military apsect of the conflict were just liars, right? Tell you what, why don't you people provide some fact-based evidence that the US was defeated militarily in Vietnam, you know give us some facts for once instead of rhetoric.
Quid pro Quo. If you love the baby Jesus, please explain how we won.
The victors don't have the last US guards running to a helicopter on top of our embassy. The locals don't try to squeeze through the embassy gate either. They do if the enemys tanks are close behind. Does this sound like the military victories "all the authors", apparantly without exception, write about?
Is your definition of 'military' victory consists merely of tactical battles where the enemy withdrew to fight another day or Rumsfeld's, whoops, I mean McNamara's body counts victory through spreadsheets?
I believe in that scenario the British won the Revolutinary War.
Don't confuse criticism of the war with criticism of the military (the guys without stars). The war we fought, we fought with military constraints that doomed it to failure. The redcoats didn't like that we hid behind trees either.
If the NVA successfully "resisted" the US, how is it that they lost virtually every engagement, from Ia Drang Valley to the Easter Offensive? They were only able to take over the South when it was just the ARVN holding the line, when we refused to provide air cover which would have sent those Chicom made NVA tanks back to the scrap heap, just like we did in the Easter Offensive, just like we did during Tet, like we had done countless times.
"If you don't believe the Vietnamese successfully resisted the United States, just check out the film of those helicopters evacuating the US Embassy in Saigon"
Yeah, that was when all(and let me put this in caps so you see it) MAJOR COMBAT UNITS HAD ALREADY LEFT!! The North Vietnamese went back on the deal which they signed after Linebacker II, backstabbers as always. It's not historical revisionism, that's what fucking happened.
Actually most of North Vietnam has been decimated before Linebacker II and the Airforce in the 60s complained that all targets had been destroyed. While I love overwhelming firepower, its seems extremely unlikely that North Vietnam, who couldn't control the NLF in any way, gave in after a few weeks of bombing after losing so much in the last decade. Furthermore, the Airforce was taking huge casualties so North Vietnam's best interests were not to negotiate and wait for the operation to fail.
in quoting A Perfect Circle (maynard Keenan) From dehumanization to arms production. .. power power the law of the land. those living for dead will die by their own hand. life is no ordeal if you come to terms. reject the system dictating the norms .... PEACE OR annihilation
lol wahts stupid left wingers are so hiprociticle...think about it they wanta save the trees but then their dropping thousands thousands of pamplets into the ocean....wow....thier so stupid
the ruling class constantly tries to revise the history that the soldiers were actually the protesters. didn't know this until i read about "the spitting image"
The Vietnamese successfully resisted the US assault and ejected the last in a series of brutal and murderous foreign occupiers. " I don't see how they effectively resisted anything. For one thing, the communist in this case were the invaders, operating out of neighboring countries and infiltrating over the border and then retreating to lick their wounds when US forces responded. The US left only after the other side agreed to a treaty ending hostilities.
wow talk about historical revisionism... If you don't believe the Vietnamese successfully resisted the United States, just check out the film of those helicoptors evacuating the US Embassy in Saigon (ie Ho Chi Mihn City). Vietnam today is unified and Communist, and it seems to me that if that outcome was acceptable to the United States, we could have negotiated that without causing the needless death of 50,000 plus of our young people and ripping our own country in two politically.
The Vietnamese successfully resisted the US assault and ejected the last in a series of brutal and murderous foreign occupiers." And installed yet another murderous regime. What was gained for the people there? Not much, but the whole fiasco was a propaganda coup for Moscow, one which they would try to duplicate with some success later in South America and Africa.
The Americans should have better make Afghanistan a Success and participate for Peace in the Middle/Near East between Israel and a needed souvereign Palestine.
Irak was all based on lies. I m sorry for the young Soldiers who are send there and for the Iraqi People.
Cuba had fallen to communists, the British and the Australians had fought a series of small but very bloody insurgencies in Asia against communists, and the Korean War, the only time during the Cold War that the major powers on both sides fought openly against each other, was not a distant memory. the US government legitimately believed that communism was engaged in a worldwide offensive and thus they did not see Vietnam in a vacuum.
The US government did not see Vietnam in a Vacuum, but they saw it wrong. The US sought to prop up a series of brutal and unpopular dictators in the South that neither half of Vietnam supported. The United States and our client state in the South resisted elections preferring a military campaign. The Vietnamese successfully resisted the US assault and ejected the last in a series of brutal and murderous foreign occupiers.
Provide one documented source. I have read numerous books on the subject trying to prove the connection. The majority of the stories do not jive with real facts. This is not to say that Vietnam Vets did/do not feel spit on, but as far as the events actually happening, there is no background.
I remember after I returned from asia and was stationed in New Hampshire, that one individual was having his children taken away because the reason given was "he was an alcoholic, owned guns, and was a vietnam vet." It was in the papers.
Democracy? Perhaps not. Democracy is something politicians like to talk up, few people abroad are interested in it. No, our reason for being involved in Vietnam was simply to keep another country from falling to the communist. Purely strategic. If the war had been kept at a military advisor level of involvment, things may not have twisted so badly out of control. I don't deny that the war was mishandled, but I think we had a legitimate reason to be there in some form.
Why is it such a horrible thing for the United States if the people of a country elect a communist leader for their own perceived benefit, given that this leader was not a threat to the United States or anyone else? Why is it morally justified to suspend democratic principles, push to cancel elections, and arm and advise the oppressive opponents of the candidate who would have won, thus contributing to the creation of a war with the potential to kill hundreds of thousands of people?
In the words of Eisenhower, "we must never mistake honest decent for disloyal subversion." How is providing aid and comfort to a foriegn enemy honest decent? There is a fine line between decent and treason, and Jane Fonda clearly crossed it. If you think Ike would have endorsed that sort of activity, you are horribly mistaken.
"The United States continued to support Diem." Actually we gave the go ahead to overthrow Diem when it became clear how unpopular he was, but whatever.
That overthrow of Diem occurred 7 years after the cancelled election. Further, I fail to understand how the United States' support for the overthrow of Diem supports tobikeef's implication that the purpose of the Vietnam War was to promote democracy.
1. The North Vietnamese consistently violated ceasefire agreements (Tet) and refused US offers of peace 3. The North Vietnamese committed numerous acts of what we would call "war crimes", namely the infiltration of Sparrow teams into SV communities to assassinate and intimidate government workers and officials, the violent suppression of dissent within North Vietnam itself, The Hue massacre, and the killing of at least 50,000 South Vietnamese after the fall of Saigon.
All of this occurred after the United States had intervened in Vietnam. Most likely, none of this would have occurred if the United States had not intervened, and had instead joined most of the international community in supporting the 1956 election to reunite Vietnam.
Of course the were violating the agreements since they were more or less forced by the Chinese and the Soviets to agree to them. Furthermore they always saw the dividing of the nation as wrong and were enraged at the US for doing so which would have been unified if free elections were held.
"It is not bravery to kill people and risk being killed for an unjust cause." Just and unjust is a matter of perspective, to borrow a popular liberal rationalization.
There is not a single documented case of anyone spitting on an average vietnam veteran." I can give you atleas three examples of US Vietnam Vets being harassed. Maybe if you bothered to do some research you would realize there is quite a bit of substance to that accusation. Or maybe you wish to continue parroting the bullshit made up by left wing historical revisionist.
Why is it you assume that anyone who disagrees with your history rewrite is uneducated? Give me your documentation and I'll look at it. But uncooroborated first hand accounts do not make it true. See my above comment for clarification.
Yeah maybe there were some instances of US Vets being harrassed but there are also many instances of anti-war civillians and vets being harrassed by prowar pundits. I know pulling out Kent State is a cliche but the fact remains that anti-war protests were killed or faced the death penalty. SO unless you can give me so instances of anti-war protestors killing prowar individuals you should back off.
You get your orders, you go. If half a million soldiers (actually, they weren't soldiers, but cowards...) hadn't deserted, we could've won sooner and with less loss by shear might. Bravery is looking past your own fear and onto the greater good. And I'll tell you something else. You don't want no hippy berkensock professor for a friend, you want a retired soldier. They're the best people you or I will ever know.
Thanks for the reply, avin1. Stuff to think about.... It comes down to the fact that the "higher ups" will never exactly tell us what the thinking is, the real motives... Hell, they may be for America's own good to steal the oil out of Iraq... I've got my own problems, and I think "they" count on that.
It is bravery to confront death couragiously with an opponant equally as brave as you and willing to kill you if given the chance. Whether they be thier for patriotism, family history, or a sense of duty to country. (Either side). Justice is often the reward for the victors.
I think desertion is cowardly. Period. This Nation is involved in peace keeping assignments the world over. From WWII to Somolia to Vietnam. We have the might to acquire and secure peace. Vietnam was to dismantle an oppressive and hostile government. As was WWII, Somalia, Iraq. Democracy is the best we know to insure human happiness and dignity.
Despite what you and Chairman Mao think, power and peace do not come from the barrel of a gun.
From an international relations view, Somalia is not a peacekeeping mission it is a strategic operation look where the country is. We don't do things militarily just because we are nice guys.
Somila we left on a dime. We actually went there to help, and they were thankful at first, and then, because they don't read, they believed the bad guy and everybody wanted to kill us. The reason they are in the state they're in is because we couldn't help anyway... fuck em. So far, peace is kept with "the barrel of the gun." How many cops did you drive by today?
Unfortunately, almost everything you state about the history preceding the Vietnam War is nonsense. 1. The South Vietnam government was at least as oppressive, and had little support among the Vietnamese.
2. North Vietnam had every right to be hostile to the United States: Until 1954, the United States had been funding France's eight year war against the Viet Minh nationalists, during which France attempted to reimpose its imperialist rule upon Vietnam.
3. According to the 1954 Geneva Accords, an election was supposed to take place in 1954 to reunify Vietnam. However, Ngo Dinh Diem, understanding that Ho Chi Minh would win, refused to proceed with the elections. The United States continued to support Diem. Therefore, the implication that the Vietnam War was an effort by the United States to promote Democracy is absolute nonsense.
The war was to stop the spread of communism. But you remind me of a story of the US who when they first heard of this "Mao" guy sent a southern senator with a cowboy hat to meet him secretly in Yunan. The senator said he was short and shook hands like a girl so did not recommend we support him.
OK, so thepurpose of the Vietnam war was to "stop the spread of Communism" because Ho Chi Mihn, a communist, would have easily been elected if a democratic vote of the Vietnamese people had been allowed to take place. Just like the CIA overthrew and killed the socialist Allende in Chile when he was elected.
And just as the United States tried to overthrow Hugo Chavez after he was elected in Venezuela. I just want to make sure we all understand avin's point isn't lost, that is,that this notion of the United States devoting it's military in the name of "democracy" is a total fairy tale.
Avin1 is wrapped up in the myth. After the 1954 accords were announced 100s of thousands moved from the north to the south with estimates up to a million. In oct of 1955 a referendom was held on who's in charge and through stuffing ballots Dinh won. Not having been a party to the geneva accords he cancelled the elections of 1956. But the communists were not popular and people voted with thier feet when they fled the north. Ho was not a factor in what happened. It was power grabbing by Dinh.
uh, we don't even seem to have the military might to secure the road from Bagdhad to the airport, much less secure a Western-style Jeffersonian democracy for a barely-cobbled together country bitterly divided between armed religious sects and competing ethnic groups.
Anyway, "human happiness and dignity" is exactly what the United States is *not* bringing to Iraq.
From what I read the war battlefield in Iraq is working to our favor. But the issue was Vietnam, Hanoi Jane and cowards. That you have tried to show through history were right, but actually was wrong. Reguardless none of any of the people I ever met ever knew vietnamese history very well. The word on the street was who got accepted at college, who got a deferment, and who was sweating out the draft or who got some pull and got into the reserves.
The US has brought a better life to more people and countries than any other country on earth. You just hate that don't you. You can't stand people who stand up for anything, because you won't.
Look Gerry, you don't even know me, why so quick to make big assumptions about what I hate, and what I will and won't stand up for? We disagree about the Vietnam war and I guess about this pathetic invasion of Iraq too, but I don't think there's any point in making it personal. For the record I love our country and the Constitution, and I wholeheartedly agree with your first sentence.
I just hate to see the Constitution abused and the courage and blood of our young people squandered so tragically and needlesssly by the power-drunk know-nothings who have "lead" us into these pathetic foreign ventures.
I reread your comments and you are correct my remarks were out of line and I appologize. Actually it was a healthy discussion and I learned a few things. Such as the OSS (forerunner of the CIA) dropped into the jungle camp of Ho to deliver life saving malaria medicine to him during the war with Japan.
The majority of americans were protesting the draft and not the war per se. They were cowards who did not want to go where they might be killed. While that may be a compelling argument for some, every war in history has had them. The news media gave them wide coverage.
Where did you get that crap from, a "history" book? Doesn't sound like you were there - I was. The whole country was against the war, in the end. Led by cowards? Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, George Bush...deferments, deferments, and deserter. Are those your heroic leaders?
Actually I enlisted in 1966, most of my friends did as well. Of those who didn't they were all talking about not wanting to get drafted or killed or going off to a foriegn land. Some were looking to any college they could get into or getting in the reserves if someonesdad had pull. I was at Bien Hoa, not particulairly dangerous, but we had several killed by morters and 2 killed and 19 wounded during one attack.
I used to fly with a Capt Lubera using Air America. We went to the delta and some other places I have no idea what the names are. Used to have a squadron mascot by the name of Louie who used to howl every time we got hit by mortors or rockets. I started out in Japan as my first overseas assignment and didn't return to the US for 7 years. So I missed all your cowardly crap.
My heros? All those who served thier country. The POWs who endured years of torture and inhumane treatment. The wives and children who supported them.
Yes "Howl", and he was good at it. By the time morter rounds start coming in on an air base, the enemy knows your coordinates. Bunkers were all around the parimeter and one dog howling gave nothing away. Louie was well loved and helped fill a void with his howling. Brave dog?
"protesting the draft and not the war"??? Sorry, but that's absurd. Millions upon millions of ordinary citizens protested against the Vietman War, demanded that the troops be brought home, and only a percentage of them were even eligible for the draft. The news media covered the protests because they were massive and widespread.
For example, you've heard of the Vietnam Moratorium protest in November 1969? More than two million Americans participated in that, a quarter million of them in Washington DC alone. When you tar millions of Americans as "cowards" you make yourself look foolish, obstinate and myopic, Gerry. Yes, it's a bitter pill to swallow, but the citizens who opposed the war were in fact right, most of them had the best interest of our country at heart, and certaainly they should have been heeded.
Where are the protesters? Some went to jail for their beliefs. Some of them are in the grave, (including the kids who were murdered at Kent State). Some of them went back to ordinary life after the US began to withdraw from Vietnam, and others continued to work to make their country a more decent, fair place to raide their children.
It's worth noting that the largest mass protests in the history of the world occured all around the globe just prior to the US invasion of Iraq. Between 8 and 30 million people took to the streets to make known their disgust for this idiotic war.
There is still controvery at what actually happened at kent state, yet those who died are still dead. After the war many of those who got thier college deferment went on to become our journalist and medea experts on the war as well as many became teachers who went on to promote a lopsided view of what happened. I.e
(continued)... The majority of the populace there never supported our being there, and the puppet regime we tried to install in Saigon was corrupt and had no credibility with the people of Vietnam.
Those Americans who opposed the war and resisted it, like Martin Luther King, Daniel Berrigan, and millions and millions of ordinary citizens, were not "traitors". They were correct, and were patriotically trying to save our country from a disastrous error.
The US did not "invade" Vietnam, under Kennedy and Johnson it increased support for the South Vietnamese to fight the communist North. The overthow of the government was carried out by the South Vietnamese army altho Kennedy and the CIA had knowledge of it, did nothing to stop it for plitical reasons.
(continued...) From that point on our "leaders" like McNamara, LBJ, Nixon, Kissinger, etc, were cynically trying to buy time and save face, (although even that wasn't accomplished) and at the cost of tens of thousands of American soldiers lives, and many more wounded or disfigured. That is the pathetic reality. The United States invaded Vietnam, despite the fact that it posed no threat to our country, and our military actions there were criminal. That's the bottom line (continued...)
I find it pretty astounding that 35 years later there are still apologists for the travesty that was the Vietnam War.
Gerry301, I'm terrbly sorry for what you suffered over there, and you have a right to be bitter, but you're living in a dream world. Have you read the Pentagon Papers? By 1968, long before Jane Fonda and Donald Sutherland set foot in Vietnam, the US military and intelligence had concluded beyond any doubt that there was no way to "win" in Vietnam (continued...)
I didn't read the Pentagon papers like most people and congressmen never read it because as a documentary initiated by Macmamera it only chronicled the war up to that point. It was also(I believe) over 7000 pages long, over 6999 pages longer than a congressman could read at one time. The problem is that they did not learn thier lessons from Korea, which is actually the 1st war we lost. Appeasement and negotiations that had little meaning other than for the US to end the war and save face.
Am not "bitter" about the Vietnam war. In fact am proud to have served. I do not like people who at the time were more interested in saving thier own butt, tell me later they were war protesters and as such some kind of hero.
War, what is it good for? Except to help enrich an elite few, while leaving death,atrocities,environmental and emotional damage behind! Its time for Humans to EVOLVE! Say YES to PEACE!
i wish they(the robber barons) would bring back the draft...no one would go...FTA...
garraper 1 day ago
what a wonderful demonstration of the power of solidarity, and a message of hope for a nation lost to the momentum of aggression
I recommend you see the complete documentary
search YouTube for "Sir, No Sir! (1 de 9)" to get the first of nine parts
david1austin 3 months ago
Bc it is his farking life. He was drafted and was asked to kill gooky strangers. Oh my, how he sat there and watch a VC bled to death on that rice field, flesh and guts and yelow fluid rushed out from wounds yet still struggle to crawl out of that dung hole so he can died in dignity. No, the GI is not suppose to responsible for that. It's those losers depressive H.O. that lost the war!! And on that rice field, monsoon rains can wash it all away....guilt, hate, depression of the minds.
UnitedPebbles 3 months ago
@cobrachoppergirl. You dumb fuck!! The military is controlled by politicians in the end, so blame them. Second, what our military is doing is dismantling terrorist organizations on foreign soil. We are on good terms with Afghanistan's government, obviously not the assholes trying to attack America. Have you forgotten 9/11?!
Profusion55 5 months ago
@Profusion55 You poor naive baby, or, you stupid brainwashed fuck. The military is not dismantling any terrorists because the US military are the terrorists (controlled by the corrupt politicians), and they are aiding in the installation of corrupt puppet governments in resource rich countries so the USA can rape those sovereign nations of their riches. In this day and age of almost unlimited information, how can you still beleive the crap that's spewed in the mainstream media !!!!
yourshortmemory 4 months ago
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yourshortmemory 4 months ago
@Profusion55 And 9/11 ??? Really, what kind of a deaf dumb and blind man are you !!! The US was meddling and murdering overseas long before it was hit back with 9/11. What kind of a stupid justification is that !!! Don't you know about all the killing the USA has done since the second world war in countries that have not done a single thing to the USA ??? The USA has invaded and murdered innocents in countries that didn't even have an army (Panama), and you pull a 9/11 out of your arse ???
yourshortmemory 4 months ago
all studies done on the GI movements showed that it was more often than not the volunteers making waves,doing drugs and killing fellow soldiers. draftees as a rule are better behaved more law abiding people who usually just kept out of trouble and honorably served out the enlistment.
madmike19682003 7 months ago
I think your lying. by the languaging you use,I think you are the typical collage grad lib who tries to sound smarter than every one else. But cant succeed at anything. If you can stay focused ,Tell me who is a "fascist" and what do they do? I've never heard a real combat vet use the word like you did.
fxstsharleyrider 1 year ago
God bless every service man. Fonda is still a CUNT! She didnt protest for the troops,she did it for face time. Just like Jessis Jackson do.
fxstsharleyrider 1 year ago
@fxstsharleyrider I am a vet and I still do not understand why people who believe in fighting for freedom and democracy insult people who exercise their freedom in a democratic way. But what is clear is that your use of language ideology (in its most vulgar form) clearly indicates that you are most likely a fascist.
TheOzomahtli 1 year ago
A nation can not be defended by the sheep who whine and bitch about every little thing. The sheep, if called upon duty, in order to defend other sheeps retreats with anger and remorse and does not care about nothing other than their safety. The Wolf when called upon duty, with sadness, leaves his beloved one to answer the called, For he know that it must be done if he wants safety for his pups. True be that the wolf needs the sheep but not as much as the sheep needs the wolf.
pablo19852000 1 year ago
@pablo19852000 Wolves eat sheep. Metaphor fail.
smellincoffee 1 year ago 4
@pablo19852000 I'm sick of this facetious argument that the military is "defending my freedom" and "protecting me". On the contrary, the military is doing anything but that. They are pissing off people around the world, turning the world against Americans. Get this straight. The only person who will defend YOUR FREEDOM is YOU YOURSELF. The state and its military arm has no interest at all in defending your freedom, on the contrary, they're drive is to erode it as much as possible.
cobrachoppergirl 1 year ago 5
@cobrachoppergirl O yes u are so right. True there should be no Cops, and above all no Military, only YOU can defend your rights. By the way how did you get those right??, were they magically placed upon you?? The answer its no, they were earned through blood spilled on a battlefield and suffering of others who wanted u to have those freedoms. Lets say we fallow your believes and we disarm the government and the Military? what then? we just sitting ducks for others to place upon us their will.
pablo19852000 1 year ago
@pablo19852000 You said "we just sitting ducks for others to place upon us their will" if you disarm the army. So that obviously means the US are imposing their will on anyone they like since their army is bigger than anyone elses, which is the damn truth. But, I don't think that is what you intended to say, so, your reasoning is stupid. cobrachoppergirl didn't even say anywhere to get rid of army or police so you're stupid.
yourshortmemory 4 months ago
@pablo19852000 And rights are deteriorating pretty quickly in police state USA, along with jobs because of greedy corporations looking for cheap labour, and huge military industrial complex spending, so, you're stupid.
yourshortmemory 4 months ago
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@cobrachoppergirl freedom is not free.
otchowaloeight8 11 months ago
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TimmyHaag 11 months ago
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Just know that this same sort of pussy-passive attitude before 911 is what led to an attack on the US and consequently war in the middle East. Want to see what happens when Americans can't take no more... In YouTube Search: Let the bodies hit the floor
CaribbeanLatino 1 year ago
Saw this, It's very good.
Foxtrot Tango Alpha!!!
The4LA2Baker0 1 year ago
Hey America... don't let the Liberals betray your country. They've been brainwashed all their lifes by you guess it... Socialist Propaganda.
CaribbeanLatino 1 year ago
@CaribbeanLatino Bwhahahahaahahah! thanks for that good laugh.
The4LA2Baker0 1 year ago
FSTV has been airing the entire movie repeatedly for several days now. Its beautifully directed and edited, and gives me a glimmer of hope that the men and women inside the military may hold the key to ending the current - seemingly endless - War on Terror. So, servicemen and women, do your part: go AWOL, refuse orders, frag that pig, stir up dissent, fail to create useful intel, and END THE WAR. The war is a farce and always was.
XBOLDENX 2 years ago 2
@XBOLDENX
Bullshit.
Was 9/11 faked?
Sn1p3rSh4wn 1 year ago
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Fucking hippies. They are the scum of the free world and I'll be glad when they are dead and their children are alone n this world.
flockofgoat 2 years ago
Comment removed
l0l101l0l 1 year ago
Good, because that's the plan. Be sure to say 'thank you' the next time to partake of some frivolous joy you take for granted, because it was brought to you via oil and the uber rich.
flockofgoat 1 year ago
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JANE FONDA - STILL A TRAITOR
Fuck you, Hanoi Jane!!
PanekPL 2 years ago
YEAH!!!
BadToaster 2 years ago
Id start a riot if I had to go to Nam, maybe even torch the barracks. Screw LBJ all the way.
Zobor111 2 years ago
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These guys were a complete disgrace for the US Army; they think they were soldiers, I say they were just pseudo-pacifists assholes...
If you're not a natural born soldier, just do us a favour: don't join the Army.
Perhaps these assholes should learn something about many of the soldiers who fought there (McCain, Kerry, etc.), not only because they acted as SOLDIERS, but also because Vietnam was an INEVITABLE war within the Cold War context...
JoeTyler85 2 years ago
Of course if the activists tried this in any of the nations they love so much like Vietnam, Cuba, ect they would not be around to be stars of a documentary today.
RobGoth100 3 years ago
You means
"There are worse countries.... so shut up and obey"
undergoldstar 2 years ago
It sickening that the protesters actually did spit on the soldiers and as well the injured ones coming back home from Vietnam.
How does peace come to the ones with such low respect of a human who was forced to fight.
reapthereap 3 years ago
You clearly did not watch the documentary. This is an URBAN LEGEND exposed (with strong evidence) in the film. In fact, soldiers came back to military bases where it was impossible for protesters to get close enough to spit. Every protest I was in included vets and civilians who had the utmost respect for soldiers--our family and friends--and did not want to see their lives "used stupidly or carelessly or for unworthy ends" as Marine Tobias Wolff wrote in his Vietnam memoir "In Pharoah's Army."
OaklanderV 2 years ago 12
Conseratvies create bogus myths so they will not have to deal with issues where they are in the wrong...
Soldiers returned from Vietnam to US Air bases...like Travis AFB in California...according to RIght Wing mythology...they were greeted by sandal wearing hippies who spat on them. Since when where peace loving hippes allowed on air force bases to greet the troops?
SpamburgerHelper 2 years ago 13
Soldiers were never returned to the base, they were always transported to a local plane to take them to a San Fransisco airport. Spitting has happened to many soldiers, here in Canada and the states its an actual fact. Spitting gotten so bad that soldiers would remove their uniform and back into Civilian clothes and which in question hippies found out what they were doing and spat on everyone they could. Everyone needs to go and look at the facts for themselves, too understand the best.
reapthereap 2 years ago
y'know, its funny that u & reapthereap mention this spitting thing, becuz its determined to be a myth towards the end of this very documentary.
kaishininjou 2 years ago 2
I thought sandal wearing hippes only hung out at airports back then. The point is that most of them were and still are traitors and liars. Thank God for WWII. If you want to save millions of lives, misery and destruction, start another war and quickly before radical fundamentalists hit us first. Iran is less than 1 year away from gaining nuclear capabilities. OH Yeah, it's for peacefull purposes... another Myth I suppose.
CaribbeanLatino 1 year ago
@SpamburgerHelper any vietnam vet would tell you had they where treated when they come home ass wipe they where treated like shit period when the vets where just doing there job over there trying to live to come back home so fuck you
wtf4688 3 months ago
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DONT STOP OR ELSE SOMETHING BAD WILL HAPPEN MY NAME IS JENNY I AM 7 WITH RED HAIR MY MOTHER BEATS ME I LIVE IN A CELL WITH NO WINDOWS DOORS AND NO LIGHT I HAVE RED SCARY EYES AND IHAVE NO NOSE OR EARS I AM DEAD IF YOU DONT SEND THIS TO 15PPL B4 U GO TO BED I WILL APPEAR 2NIGHT WITH A KNIFE AND KILL U THIS IS NO JOKE SOMETHING GOOD WILL HAPPEN TO U AT 10:22 SOMEONE WILL CALL YOU OR TALK TO YOU ONLINE AND SAY I LOVE YOU OR ASK YOU OUT BUT HERES THE CATCH Send To 15 vids
purplecarrot123 3 years ago
FUCKKKK THE ARMY!
WestCoastIrk 3 years ago
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Hanoi Jane!! FreeYou!!! TRaitor!!How dare you tosay F.... Our army.Go usa
mixerd0822 3 years ago
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It is a miracle we won the Cold War and liberated a billion people no thanks to these punks.
RobGoth100 3 years ago
We won the Cold War because the Soviets bankrupt themselves in the race to acquire nuclear weapons, not because the Soviet Union collapsed after Vietnam. This movie is about army resistance to the Vietnam War. Where was the domino effect? Where was Communist Chinese domination of Asia? Where was France's collapse? It was nowhere, and to denigrate the troops that realized that this was, for them, a disgusting joke is so cruel and misguided as to be reprehensible. You should be ashamed.
meanliar 3 years ago 3
Soviets bankrupted themselves in the arms race to acquire nuclear weapons because THERE WAS AN ARMS RACE. We did not give up like the turncoats in this film wanted. They should be ashamed and many of them are today.
RobGoth100 3 years ago
America is a bankrupt and corrupt war criminal state today.
bucktotim 3 years ago 4
you won the cold war?
No
Azad5xX 3 years ago
Spoken like an armchair quarterback
Crazydog7 3 years ago
The Vietnam war was beyond unjust.
South Vietnam had a terrible government led by crooks, the last thing America should have even thought of doing was helping them.
Estuarchaos0 3 years ago 2
I have to write a skilled work about what impact the vietnam war had to the USA.. my topic is: the USA after the vietnam war - how the country sees itself.
can someone help me please? i'm a student in germany. thanks
heeyo1988 3 years ago
This is inspiring. The people we trusted to end the Iraq war aren't doing a damn thing about it. Time to do it ourselves.
SummaSunny 3 years ago
I think you meant to type NVA (not NLF) and VC is also correct.
NVA = North Vietnemese Army
VC = Viet Cong (they were the south vietnamese who organised and fought against the US and allied forces in vietnam.
NLF = How a dislexic person spells the NFL
>>The fact that the NLF (often incorrectly called VC) endured so much while the ARVN wouldn't put up a 5 minute fight is proof enough for me that they were the right side.
MichaelAdelaide 3 years ago
"Do you suck dick?!" "Sir, no sir!" "Bullshit!I bet you can suck a golf ball through a garden hose!!" "Sir no Sir!"
XxGuitarxX360 3 years ago
Terrific! Peace Out!
peacethinker 3 years ago
This was a great video... I got it from my library. There is a tremendous difference between the Vietnam war and the war in Iraq. Our soldiers are now ALL VOLUNTEERS.
IronMal 3 years ago
pushed into the war by socio economic pressure.
DisidenciaTricolor 3 years ago
Yes, but many people volunteer because they believe the lies they're told about war by idiots who glorify it and join thinking it's a noble thing to do only to realize they were lied to.
Volunteers have even more of a right to be angry than draftees because they willingly went only to discover the lies.
Scotty7617 3 years ago 4
3/15/03-3/15/08 Foxtrot, Tango, Alpha!
OleoStrut71 3 years ago
Majordirtbag2, get fucked numbnuts and all of you other cry baby chicken shit fucks. Janes's a fucken Ho,traitor and a shitbag. Wonder how many commie gooks she sucked off over there?
tmkrjk 3 years ago
History forgotten...
zizizzi 3 years ago
Thanks for sharing. Looks like a classic documentary for the ages.
WindHarps 3 years ago
the army kicks ass :D XD
DanSamilia 4 years ago
In the sixties it was spreading literature today we have the internet.
The r3volution is going viral and the troops are gonna ignite the raging inferno!
Support them and bring them home to fight the war on the military industrial complex, and our corrupt governments!
flipsidestory 4 years ago
can you upload the whole video
betotey 4 years ago
Fonda is a traitor and a Ho.
tmkrjk 4 years ago
get the fuck outa here facist
yandiggles 4 years ago
Hey liberal fool, you probably were proud when that commie HO sat on a VC cannon and sided with the communists. Thats a liberal for ya! Your no different, your just another commie liberal....make us happy....eat shit and die!
tmkrjk 4 years ago
hahahahaha commie fool! thats classic where are you from TEXAS the home of rednecks hahahaha you sound like a no hoper oohhhh whatch out for those communists! the most evil people in the world, ooohhhh geez im so scared of fidel Castro ohh no! look here brainless fuck if you knew ANYTHING about history you would not be talking like that so shut the fuck up.
yandiggles 4 years ago
At least she was willing to give support to the right side as opposed to a neo-con retard like you, who thinks every dissendent is a commie.
Personally, I admire anyone who's willing to spend months fighting in tiny cramped tunnels against a military with overwhelming technological superiority and firepower.
The fact that the NLF (often incorrectly called VC) endured so much while the ARVN wouldn't put up a 5 minute fight is proof enough for me that they were the right side.
majordbag2 3 years ago
At least she was willing to give support to the right side as opposed to a neo-con retard like you, who thinks every dissendent is a commie.
Personally, I admire anyone who's willing to spend months fighting in tiny cramped tunnels against a military with overwhelming technological superiority and firepower.
The fact that the NLF (often incorrectly called VC) endured so much while the ARVN wouldn't put up a 5 minute fight is proof enough for me that they were the right side.
majordbag2 3 years ago
I bet you love Nixon too you fucking halfwit, why the fuck are you even on here you fucking patriotic (Im gonna have sotomy sessions with uncle sam) stereotype american. no you do me a favour never travel the world, stay in you "safe little world" you paranoid fuck stay in your redneck town.
becasue if you do travel the COMMIES WILL GET YOU fucking brainwashed peice of shit!
yandiggles 4 years ago
Eat shit and croak, liberalism is a mental disorder, seek help even though you are beyond a cure.
tmkrjk 4 years ago
mmm lol owned =D!
i like how people try to talk. they just gonna get there ass wooped thats why they dont do anything. all they can do is talk...no action but talking. they pussy bitches and will always be.
SirBser 4 years ago
You speak like a snaggled tooth jackass!Bye, LIB!
tmkrjk 4 years ago
WHAT HIPPIE COMMIE SAID THIS?
Gen. David M. Shoup, USMC, who received the Medal of Honor in WWll; became Commandant of the Marine Corps in the early 1960s, publicly railed against America's continuous interventions and wars. Statement in 1966.
dilbertgeg 4 years ago
if we would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar- soaked fingers out of the business of these nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution on their own. And if unfortunately their revolution must be of the violent type because the 'haves' refuse to share with the 'have-nots' by any peaceful methods, at least what they get will be their own and not the American style, which they don't want and above all don't want crammed down their throats by Americans.
dilbertgeg 4 years ago
We no longer have a democracy. King George has seen to that! There were thousands on voted for George Bush in those damnable voting machines before the polls even opened. No people, voting doesnt make any difference any longer. Our Democracy has been hijacked!
Jigs1girl 4 years ago 3
Im LMAO at ya....whenever the GOP wins, its a fix or rigged voting machines. The sad part is that liberal assholes believe it....which is why they are liberals. LMAO...oh, too bad she didn't get shot down.
tmkrjk 4 years ago
The USA should never overthrow president diem then VIETNAM will not a communist country now,because as long as president diem lead VIETNAM then people around the world will never saw boat people,reeducation camp,and VIETNAM will not poor and behind the world now!BONJOUR VIETNAM!
trojanglory69 4 years ago
i was born on one of the bases mentioned here..my father was very close to being shipped out..until he had a mild heartattack..probably from the strong protests!..saved his life and he was with me! and still is.
March Sept. 15th IMPEACH PRESIDENT BUSH....there is also an anti war Die-In.. to represent all the dead from this war..BE THERE
MissAnthropic66 4 years ago
"Most dedicated troops" my ass. Bunch of no-good draftees out to cause trouble, more like.
southmatt154 4 years ago
awesome work....HOW CAN WE HELP!
SUPPORT RONPAUL2008 WE THE PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE OUT THE BANKERS.....AND TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK!
ROCK ON!
krotchmusic 4 years ago
Powerful people is only powerful by consent. They can't do shit by themselves "without" our consent...
One on one, anyone is good as a loose bullet...
envyjealous 4 years ago
It is so UNfortunate that some so called "American Patriots" embraces the "NAZI's" way of life...
History "ignored", repeats itself...
envyjealous 4 years ago 2
Monkey do, Monkey does...
"Greedy" people do not have conscience...
Engraved on their "tombstone" it says... "Here lays the bastards who deserved to burn in "HELL"
envyjealous 4 years ago
Yeah call it historical revisionism. I guess all the authors who wrote about the military apsect of the conflict were just liars, right? Tell you what, why don't you people provide some fact-based evidence that the US was defeated militarily in Vietnam, you know give us some facts for once instead of rhetoric.
funktastic1986 4 years ago
Funktastic:
Quid pro Quo. If you love the baby Jesus, please explain how we won.
The victors don't have the last US guards running to a helicopter on top of our embassy. The locals don't try to squeeze through the embassy gate either. They do if the enemys tanks are close behind. Does this sound like the military victories "all the authors", apparantly without exception, write about?
dynamoehummm 4 years ago
Is your definition of 'military' victory consists merely of tactical battles where the enemy withdrew to fight another day or Rumsfeld's, whoops, I mean McNamara's body counts victory through spreadsheets?
I believe in that scenario the British won the Revolutinary War.
dynamoehummm 4 years ago
Don't confuse criticism of the war with criticism of the military (the guys without stars). The war we fought, we fought with military constraints that doomed it to failure. The redcoats didn't like that we hid behind trees either.
dynamoehummm 4 years ago
NICE... The "TRUTH" of the matter is...
*Our "crook" and "corrupt" puppet politicians who serve our "Greedy" bastard big business do not want to leave Iraq...
*Too profitable at tax-payers-expense and plus bloody GI's doing all the dirty work...(killing the beneficiaries of Iraq's resources (OIL)
*Sell them more WMD's and Anthrax...
*WTF America?
greenepeas 4 years ago
"American" democracy under Cheney "Dick"tatorship...
"Evil" minds at work
greenepeas 4 years ago
If the NVA successfully "resisted" the US, how is it that they lost virtually every engagement, from Ia Drang Valley to the Easter Offensive? They were only able to take over the South when it was just the ARVN holding the line, when we refused to provide air cover which would have sent those Chicom made NVA tanks back to the scrap heap, just like we did in the Easter Offensive, just like we did during Tet, like we had done countless times.
funktastic1986 4 years ago
"If you don't believe the Vietnamese successfully resisted the United States, just check out the film of those helicopters evacuating the US Embassy in Saigon"
Yeah, that was when all(and let me put this in caps so you see it) MAJOR COMBAT UNITS HAD ALREADY LEFT!! The North Vietnamese went back on the deal which they signed after Linebacker II, backstabbers as always. It's not historical revisionism, that's what fucking happened.
funktastic1986 4 years ago
Actually most of North Vietnam has been decimated before Linebacker II and the Airforce in the 60s complained that all targets had been destroyed. While I love overwhelming firepower, its seems extremely unlikely that North Vietnam, who couldn't control the NLF in any way, gave in after a few weeks of bombing after losing so much in the last decade. Furthermore, the Airforce was taking huge casualties so North Vietnam's best interests were not to negotiate and wait for the operation to fail.
majordbag2 3 years ago
in quoting A Perfect Circle (maynard Keenan) From dehumanization to arms production. .. power power the law of the land. those living for dead will die by their own hand. life is no ordeal if you come to terms. reject the system dictating the norms .... PEACE OR annihilation
aaronCapricorn 4 years ago
lol wahts stupid left wingers are so hiprociticle...think about it they wanta save the trees but then their dropping thousands thousands of pamplets into the ocean....wow....thier so stupid
Fenderkicksass 4 years ago
the ruling class constantly tries to revise the history that the soldiers were actually the protesters. didn't know this until i read about "the spitting image"
counterpunch dot org/ philion10132006 dot html
OhHen 4 years ago
ya'll naysayers need to watch The Fog of War
flykix 4 years ago
SIR NO SIR!!
blackfootnawaho 4 years ago
The Vietnamese successfully resisted the US assault and ejected the last in a series of brutal and murderous foreign occupiers. " I don't see how they effectively resisted anything. For one thing, the communist in this case were the invaders, operating out of neighboring countries and infiltrating over the border and then retreating to lick their wounds when US forces responded. The US left only after the other side agreed to a treaty ending hostilities.
funktastic1986 4 years ago
wow talk about historical revisionism... If you don't believe the Vietnamese successfully resisted the United States, just check out the film of those helicoptors evacuating the US Embassy in Saigon (ie Ho Chi Mihn City). Vietnam today is unified and Communist, and it seems to me that if that outcome was acceptable to the United States, we could have negotiated that without causing the needless death of 50,000 plus of our young people and ripping our own country in two politically.
ozruby 4 years ago
The Vietnamese successfully resisted the US assault and ejected the last in a series of brutal and murderous foreign occupiers." And installed yet another murderous regime. What was gained for the people there? Not much, but the whole fiasco was a propaganda coup for Moscow, one which they would try to duplicate with some success later in South America and Africa.
funktastic1986 4 years ago
great Video.
The Americans should have better make Afghanistan a Success and participate for Peace in the Middle/Near East between Israel and a needed souvereign Palestine.
Irak was all based on lies. I m sorry for the young Soldiers who are send there and for the Iraqi People.
Over 4 Years Chaos now.
BUweB 4 years ago
Cuba had fallen to communists, the British and the Australians had fought a series of small but very bloody insurgencies in Asia against communists, and the Korean War, the only time during the Cold War that the major powers on both sides fought openly against each other, was not a distant memory. the US government legitimately believed that communism was engaged in a worldwide offensive and thus they did not see Vietnam in a vacuum.
funktastic1986 4 years ago
The US government did not see Vietnam in a Vacuum, but they saw it wrong. The US sought to prop up a series of brutal and unpopular dictators in the South that neither half of Vietnam supported. The United States and our client state in the South resisted elections preferring a military campaign. The Vietnamese successfully resisted the US assault and ejected the last in a series of brutal and murderous foreign occupiers.
icarusinbrazil 4 years ago
Provide one documented source. I have read numerous books on the subject trying to prove the connection. The majority of the stories do not jive with real facts. This is not to say that Vietnam Vets did/do not feel spit on, but as far as the events actually happening, there is no background.
iraqvet4peace 4 years ago
I remember after I returned from asia and was stationed in New Hampshire, that one individual was having his children taken away because the reason given was "he was an alcoholic, owned guns, and was a vietnam vet." It was in the papers.
gerry301 4 years ago
Great comments guys, thanks.
tobikeef 4 years ago
Democracy? Perhaps not. Democracy is something politicians like to talk up, few people abroad are interested in it. No, our reason for being involved in Vietnam was simply to keep another country from falling to the communist. Purely strategic. If the war had been kept at a military advisor level of involvment, things may not have twisted so badly out of control. I don't deny that the war was mishandled, but I think we had a legitimate reason to be there in some form.
funktastic1986 4 years ago
Why is it such a horrible thing for the United States if the people of a country elect a communist leader for their own perceived benefit, given that this leader was not a threat to the United States or anyone else? Why is it morally justified to suspend democratic principles, push to cancel elections, and arm and advise the oppressive opponents of the candidate who would have won, thus contributing to the creation of a war with the potential to kill hundreds of thousands of people?
avin1 4 years ago
In the words of Eisenhower, "we must never mistake honest decent for disloyal subversion." How is providing aid and comfort to a foriegn enemy honest decent? There is a fine line between decent and treason, and Jane Fonda clearly crossed it. If you think Ike would have endorsed that sort of activity, you are horribly mistaken.
funktastic1986 4 years ago
"The United States continued to support Diem." Actually we gave the go ahead to overthrow Diem when it became clear how unpopular he was, but whatever.
funktastic1986 4 years ago
That overthrow of Diem occurred 7 years after the cancelled election. Further, I fail to understand how the United States' support for the overthrow of Diem supports tobikeef's implication that the purpose of the Vietnam War was to promote democracy.
avin1 4 years ago
1. The North Vietnamese consistently violated ceasefire agreements (Tet) and refused US offers of peace 3. The North Vietnamese committed numerous acts of what we would call "war crimes", namely the infiltration of Sparrow teams into SV communities to assassinate and intimidate government workers and officials, the violent suppression of dissent within North Vietnam itself, The Hue massacre, and the killing of at least 50,000 South Vietnamese after the fall of Saigon.
funktastic1986 4 years ago
All of this occurred after the United States had intervened in Vietnam. Most likely, none of this would have occurred if the United States had not intervened, and had instead joined most of the international community in supporting the 1956 election to reunite Vietnam.
avin1 4 years ago
Of course the were violating the agreements since they were more or less forced by the Chinese and the Soviets to agree to them. Furthermore they always saw the dividing of the nation as wrong and were enraged at the US for doing so which would have been unified if free elections were held.
majordbag2 4 years ago
"It is not bravery to kill people and risk being killed for an unjust cause." Just and unjust is a matter of perspective, to borrow a popular liberal rationalization.
funktastic1986 4 years ago
There is not a single documented case of anyone spitting on an average vietnam veteran." I can give you atleas three examples of US Vietnam Vets being harassed. Maybe if you bothered to do some research you would realize there is quite a bit of substance to that accusation. Or maybe you wish to continue parroting the bullshit made up by left wing historical revisionist.
funktastic1986 4 years ago
Why is it you assume that anyone who disagrees with your history rewrite is uneducated? Give me your documentation and I'll look at it. But uncooroborated first hand accounts do not make it true. See my above comment for clarification.
iraqvet4peace 4 years ago
Yeah maybe there were some instances of US Vets being harrassed but there are also many instances of anti-war civillians and vets being harrassed by prowar pundits. I know pulling out Kent State is a cliche but the fact remains that anti-war protests were killed or faced the death penalty. SO unless you can give me so instances of anti-war protestors killing prowar individuals you should back off.
majordbag2 4 years ago
You get your orders, you go. If half a million soldiers (actually, they weren't soldiers, but cowards...) hadn't deserted, we could've won sooner and with less loss by shear might. Bravery is looking past your own fear and onto the greater good. And I'll tell you something else. You don't want no hippy berkensock professor for a friend, you want a retired soldier. They're the best people you or I will ever know.
tobikeef 5 years ago
It is not bravery to kill people and risk being killed for an unjust cause.
avin1 4 years ago
Thanks for the reply, avin1. Stuff to think about.... It comes down to the fact that the "higher ups" will never exactly tell us what the thinking is, the real motives... Hell, they may be for America's own good to steal the oil out of Iraq... I've got my own problems, and I think "they" count on that.
tobikeef 4 years ago
It is bravery to confront death couragiously with an opponant equally as brave as you and willing to kill you if given the chance. Whether they be thier for patriotism, family history, or a sense of duty to country. (Either side). Justice is often the reward for the victors.
gerry301 4 years ago
I think desertion is cowardly. Period. This Nation is involved in peace keeping assignments the world over. From WWII to Somolia to Vietnam. We have the might to acquire and secure peace. Vietnam was to dismantle an oppressive and hostile government. As was WWII, Somalia, Iraq. Democracy is the best we know to insure human happiness and dignity.
tobikeef 5 years ago
Despite what you and Chairman Mao think, power and peace do not come from the barrel of a gun.
From an international relations view, Somalia is not a peacekeeping mission it is a strategic operation look where the country is. We don't do things militarily just because we are nice guys.
iraqvet4peace 4 years ago
Somila we left on a dime. We actually went there to help, and they were thankful at first, and then, because they don't read, they believed the bad guy and everybody wanted to kill us. The reason they are in the state they're in is because we couldn't help anyway... fuck em. So far, peace is kept with "the barrel of the gun." How many cops did you drive by today?
tobikeef 4 years ago
Unfortunately, almost everything you state about the history preceding the Vietnam War is nonsense. 1. The South Vietnam government was at least as oppressive, and had little support among the Vietnamese.
avin1 4 years ago
2. North Vietnam had every right to be hostile to the United States: Until 1954, the United States had been funding France's eight year war against the Viet Minh nationalists, during which France attempted to reimpose its imperialist rule upon Vietnam.
avin1 4 years ago
3. According to the 1954 Geneva Accords, an election was supposed to take place in 1954 to reunify Vietnam. However, Ngo Dinh Diem, understanding that Ho Chi Minh would win, refused to proceed with the elections. The United States continued to support Diem. Therefore, the implication that the Vietnam War was an effort by the United States to promote Democracy is absolute nonsense.
avin1 4 years ago
Sorry, the election was supposed to take place in 1956, not 1954.
avin1 4 years ago
The war was to stop the spread of communism. But you remind me of a story of the US who when they first heard of this "Mao" guy sent a southern senator with a cowboy hat to meet him secretly in Yunan. The senator said he was short and shook hands like a girl so did not recommend we support him.
gerry301 4 years ago
OK, so thepurpose of the Vietnam war was to "stop the spread of Communism" because Ho Chi Mihn, a communist, would have easily been elected if a democratic vote of the Vietnamese people had been allowed to take place. Just like the CIA overthrew and killed the socialist Allende in Chile when he was elected.
ozruby 4 years ago
And just as the United States tried to overthrow Hugo Chavez after he was elected in Venezuela. I just want to make sure we all understand avin's point isn't lost, that is,that this notion of the United States devoting it's military in the name of "democracy" is a total fairy tale.
ozruby 4 years ago
Avin1 is wrapped up in the myth. After the 1954 accords were announced 100s of thousands moved from the north to the south with estimates up to a million. In oct of 1955 a referendom was held on who's in charge and through stuffing ballots Dinh won. Not having been a party to the geneva accords he cancelled the elections of 1956. But the communists were not popular and people voted with thier feet when they fled the north. Ho was not a factor in what happened. It was power grabbing by Dinh.
gerry301 4 years ago
Bush went awol, ran to alabama, the neocons are a bunch of chickenhawks, bleeding the world for their own satisfaction
sausagezombie 4 years ago
uh, we don't even seem to have the military might to secure the road from Bagdhad to the airport, much less secure a Western-style Jeffersonian democracy for a barely-cobbled together country bitterly divided between armed religious sects and competing ethnic groups.
Anyway, "human happiness and dignity" is exactly what the United States is *not* bringing to Iraq.
ozruby 4 years ago
From what I read the war battlefield in Iraq is working to our favor. But the issue was Vietnam, Hanoi Jane and cowards. That you have tried to show through history were right, but actually was wrong. Reguardless none of any of the people I ever met ever knew vietnamese history very well. The word on the street was who got accepted at college, who got a deferment, and who was sweating out the draft or who got some pull and got into the reserves.
gerry301 4 years ago
The US has brought a better life to more people and countries than any other country on earth. You just hate that don't you. You can't stand people who stand up for anything, because you won't.
gerry301 4 years ago
Look Gerry, you don't even know me, why so quick to make big assumptions about what I hate, and what I will and won't stand up for? We disagree about the Vietnam war and I guess about this pathetic invasion of Iraq too, but I don't think there's any point in making it personal. For the record I love our country and the Constitution, and I wholeheartedly agree with your first sentence.
ozruby 4 years ago
I just hate to see the Constitution abused and the courage and blood of our young people squandered so tragically and needlesssly by the power-drunk know-nothings who have "lead" us into these pathetic foreign ventures.
Good luck to you, though...
ozruby 4 years ago
I reread your comments and you are correct my remarks were out of line and I appologize. Actually it was a healthy discussion and I learned a few things. Such as the OSS (forerunner of the CIA) dropped into the jungle camp of Ho to deliver life saving malaria medicine to him during the war with Japan.
gerry301 4 years ago
(continued...)
Too bad we haven't seemed to learn from that error, even with all those thousands of names engraved on that black stone wall in Washington DC.
ozruby 5 years ago
The majority of americans were protesting the draft and not the war per se. They were cowards who did not want to go where they might be killed. While that may be a compelling argument for some, every war in history has had them. The news media gave them wide coverage.
gerry301 4 years ago
Where did you get that crap from, a "history" book? Doesn't sound like you were there - I was. The whole country was against the war, in the end. Led by cowards? Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, George Bush...deferments, deferments, and deserter. Are those your heroic leaders?
madisonhack 4 years ago
Actually I enlisted in 1966, most of my friends did as well. Of those who didn't they were all talking about not wanting to get drafted or killed or going off to a foriegn land. Some were looking to any college they could get into or getting in the reserves if someonesdad had pull. I was at Bien Hoa, not particulairly dangerous, but we had several killed by morters and 2 killed and 19 wounded during one attack.
gerry301 4 years ago
I used to fly with a Capt Lubera using Air America. We went to the delta and some other places I have no idea what the names are. Used to have a squadron mascot by the name of Louie who used to howl every time we got hit by mortors or rockets. I started out in Japan as my first overseas assignment and didn't return to the US for 7 years. So I missed all your cowardly crap.
gerry301 4 years ago
My heros? All those who served thier country. The POWs who endured years of torture and inhumane treatment. The wives and children who supported them.
gerry301 4 years ago
Incidently, gerry, thanks for your service...I know that I'm proud of mine as well.
madisonhack 4 years ago
What u mean howl when u got hit by mortars, doesnt that give away ur position?
2DaChoppa 4 years ago
Yes "Howl", and he was good at it. By the time morter rounds start coming in on an air base, the enemy knows your coordinates. Bunkers were all around the parimeter and one dog howling gave nothing away. Louie was well loved and helped fill a void with his howling. Brave dog?
gerry301 4 years ago
Aight thanx 4 clearing that up man
2DaChoppa 4 years ago
"protesting the draft and not the war"??? Sorry, but that's absurd. Millions upon millions of ordinary citizens protested against the Vietman War, demanded that the troops be brought home, and only a percentage of them were even eligible for the draft. The news media covered the protests because they were massive and widespread.
ozruby 4 years ago
For example, you've heard of the Vietnam Moratorium protest in November 1969? More than two million Americans participated in that, a quarter million of them in Washington DC alone. When you tar millions of Americans as "cowards" you make yourself look foolish, obstinate and myopic, Gerry. Yes, it's a bitter pill to swallow, but the citizens who opposed the war were in fact right, most of them had the best interest of our country at heart, and certaainly they should have been heeded.
ozruby 4 years ago
Where are they now? I rest my case.
gerry301 4 years ago
Where are the protesters? Some went to jail for their beliefs. Some of them are in the grave, (including the kids who were murdered at Kent State). Some of them went back to ordinary life after the US began to withdraw from Vietnam, and others continued to work to make their country a more decent, fair place to raide their children.
ozruby 4 years ago
It's worth noting that the largest mass protests in the history of the world occured all around the globe just prior to the US invasion of Iraq. Between 8 and 30 million people took to the streets to make known their disgust for this idiotic war.
ozruby 4 years ago
Those who went to jail usually broke the law.
gerry301 4 years ago
There is still controvery at what actually happened at kent state, yet those who died are still dead. After the war many of those who got thier college deferment went on to become our journalist and medea experts on the war as well as many became teachers who went on to promote a lopsided view of what happened. I.e
gerry301 4 years ago
(continued)... The majority of the populace there never supported our being there, and the puppet regime we tried to install in Saigon was corrupt and had no credibility with the people of Vietnam.
Those Americans who opposed the war and resisted it, like Martin Luther King, Daniel Berrigan, and millions and millions of ordinary citizens, were not "traitors". They were correct, and were patriotically trying to save our country from a disastrous error.
ozruby 5 years ago
The US did not "invade" Vietnam, under Kennedy and Johnson it increased support for the South Vietnamese to fight the communist North. The overthow of the government was carried out by the South Vietnamese army altho Kennedy and the CIA had knowledge of it, did nothing to stop it for plitical reasons.
gerry301 4 years ago
(continued...) From that point on our "leaders" like McNamara, LBJ, Nixon, Kissinger, etc, were cynically trying to buy time and save face, (although even that wasn't accomplished) and at the cost of tens of thousands of American soldiers lives, and many more wounded or disfigured. That is the pathetic reality. The United States invaded Vietnam, despite the fact that it posed no threat to our country, and our military actions there were criminal. That's the bottom line (continued...)
ozruby 5 years ago
I find it pretty astounding that 35 years later there are still apologists for the travesty that was the Vietnam War.
Gerry301, I'm terrbly sorry for what you suffered over there, and you have a right to be bitter, but you're living in a dream world. Have you read the Pentagon Papers? By 1968, long before Jane Fonda and Donald Sutherland set foot in Vietnam, the US military and intelligence had concluded beyond any doubt that there was no way to "win" in Vietnam (continued...)
ozruby 5 years ago
I didn't read the Pentagon papers like most people and congressmen never read it because as a documentary initiated by Macmamera it only chronicled the war up to that point. It was also(I believe) over 7000 pages long, over 6999 pages longer than a congressman could read at one time. The problem is that they did not learn thier lessons from Korea, which is actually the 1st war we lost. Appeasement and negotiations that had little meaning other than for the US to end the war and save face.
gerry301 4 years ago
Am not "bitter" about the Vietnam war. In fact am proud to have served. I do not like people who at the time were more interested in saving thier own butt, tell me later they were war protesters and as such some kind of hero.
gerry301 4 years ago
Hey, I didn't see any Mobile Phones or Walkmans. Didn't they have 'em back then?
Damian007a1 5 years ago
War, what is it good for? Except to help enrich an elite few, while leaving death,atrocities,environmental and emotional damage behind! Its time for Humans to EVOLVE! Say YES to PEACE!
WildChildAlienFilms 5 years ago
An extremely entertaining and informative film!
noncorporatenews 5 years ago
Jane Fonda and her ilk are lucky to live in a country where even treason is permitted.
funktastic1986 5 years ago
In the words of Eisenhower, "we must never mistake honest decent for disloyal subversion."
iraqvet4peace 4 years ago
"'Obedience to the law is freedom' lol what a bunch of right-wing crap" Yeah from that very right wing document called the US Constitution.
funktastic1986 5 years ago