The theory about shaved pubic hair, is by far the worst argument I've heard from these anti-porn people. Does that mean a woman is a pedophile if she likes guys who shave their chest hair??? Body hair in general is just out of fashion!
Rape has been around since the begining of time (atleast people). If somebody becomes a rapist because of watching porn, then they were already messed up in the first place. Of course sexual abuse in the porn industry is a problem, but making porn illegal is not the solution. That would be just as stupid as prohibition, which if I was paying attention properly in school, was started because too many drunks were beating their wives & kids.
Has anybody noticed that all these wack job woman are from Europe? Even the wack job Peta lady is from Europe. So maybe they should just go back to Europe.
*women in porn have shaved pubic hair* not all... and the GUYS do it WAAYYYY more often. Its almost mandatory.
*porn gives men the predisposition that women are objects of sex* this is pretty much the same argument that people playing violent video games will become desensitized. short answer: you underestimate us as a whole. we can tell the actresses in porn are not acting like a real woman. Porn is merely an object to masturbate to and get some sexual tension out
Attacking porn as the cause of rape or deviant sexual behavior is a classic example of the failure to determine causation versus correlation and achieves absolutely nothing in the end. But some people go too far by belittling or misrepresenting the concept of rape itself. Don't make the same illogical mistakes as the anti-porn crusaders. Just because they fudge the conviction numbers and tend to paint all men as potential rapists it doesn't mean rape isn't a huge problem in society.
Just because rape is a problem, doesn't mean that false accusations of rape are not a problem.
The concept of rape is the concept of sexual theft. Shedding light on rape is difficult because even in cases where it can be proven that a sexual exchange did take place, when the matter of consent is disputed, it is almost impossible to prove one way or the other. Reversing the burden of proof has given women the power to ruin any man's life for any reason at all.
There is a false dichotomy implicit in your claim that rape is about power, not sex. It also happens to be a common cliche, a slogan, and an piece of propaganda.
Reproduction/sexual gratification is clearly the goal of both rape and sex. The only difference is the means. One means is legitimate and moral, the other means is theft and immoral.
The fact that rape can in some circumstances be used to punish does not change the definition or essence of what rape is.
@St37One Since rape by its very definition involves lack of consent from the victim, how can it *not* be about the rapist assuming power over them? The victim has made the decision not to have sex (either by actually saying no or by cultural default - consensual sex must always be invited) but the rapist has overridden that decision regardless of the victim's wishes. To say rape is not about power is just as gross an oversimplification of the crime as to imply there's no sexual aspect to it.
And as you have pointed out, the claim that rape is really about power and control is true in the trivial sense, but false in the more profound sense. You seem to have ignored the fact that I was pointing out the false dichotomy in that claim. That cliche is used not to inform people of the obvious truth that they already know, but to alter thier worldview and mislead them. There is no objective truth about how bad the rape problem is, but the proposed solutions are the key here.
Understand that they are not honestly trying to address the problem of rape in general. Rather they are trying to use this issue as an excuse to make strategic changes to cultural norms and institutions. The absurd worldview that they try to propagate pits females against males in a zero sum conflict. By siding with victims (women) as a cover, they simply attack the foundations of western liberal democracy (where the enemy lurks) until thier real motives become apparent.
I say that it is "propaganda" because this is part of the radical feminist agenda to connect rape with violence against women, and to simultaneously inflate both the frequency and intensity of rape through the use of clever language games and hysteria. Man hating feminists love to say that rape is "about power and control" because they want all interactions and relations between the sexes to be conceptualized within that duluth paradigm. It's about mind control, not rape.
pfffft all i see in a porn movie is tits, arses, dick and cunt I dehumanize man and women... why do they keep saying its just women who are seen as objects? men are just the same,
Is sex dehumanizing? Is work dehumanizing? Is politics dehumanizing?
It's just another way of expressing thier dislike of porn, but while pretending that it does something objective and real and negative to people, like increasing thier sin levels.
@bettydaw1970 I think its silly to think of porn as a rival... its more like an aid so that people can experiment together and get Ideas from what they watch... it keeps your sex life healthy and exciting with all the different positions and toys etc And personally I wouldnt mind my bf jackin off to porn (specially if i was ther with him:3) ... its better than being a prude :3
@xxSophiexSmithxx It makes sense that some women (feminist women) veiw porn as a rival, because it threatens takes away thier monopoly power over the supply of sexual gratification by providing an alternative for men. Some feminists also teach women to masturbate as part of a feminist initiative for the same reason (providing an alternative to men). They want to control men indirectly by making them more dependant on women, and by manipulating women and making them dependant on the state.
@St37One its sad thats it all about control... they should chill out and if they want to have control over their man then they should invest in some BDSM equipment... their is nothing more satisfying that watching a man squirm from pleasure at your hands :3 But seriously if you loved you boyfriend then you wouldn't want to control them in that way. If its not harming anyone and they enjoy it then why not let them. We dont have states in the UK but I get where you are coming from
"the state" is just a shorthand way of refering to any government/political body that commands a monopoly on the use of violence (police and military). Its jargon, and it is not a reference to "states" as in the united states of america. For example, the UK is a "state", and the UN contains "member states".
I lost my virginity when I was 17. I stayed with her until I was 18 and haven't had sex since. I'm 21 now.. Not exactly proud of it but what I'm trying to say here is that without pornography I strongly feel that my regular sexual urges would turn into something unhealthy.. Or even dangerous. There's nothing like a little sexual release :)
no porn less penned up slutty , with no porn more slutty in the street less of them owned by two hundred , fifty million pornographic companies world wide that's ( 250 - 300 ) one upto thousands that are in 1 company enslaved ( white slavery an unseen cult ) if they are abolished more the sex , hippies era the 1960's forever , everyone's vagina anal penis will be happy for the whole entire world , get with the plan
( theonecureforalldiseases com , '' the one minute cure '' ) ???
I dont see how they think porn even translates to the bedroom. if i got off watching a chick being DP'd by two black dudes, is that what i want in my bedroom? fuck no that means i wouldnt even be in the equation! what about a bukkake? not on my fuckin sheets! even if you got off to rape porn, it seems to me like it would be the same as enjoying killing people in a video game or loving gory movies... ya know, no connection to real life pleasures.
@PrairieDon1021 "it would be the same as enjoying killing people in a video game or loving gory movies...ya know, no connection to real life pleasures." That's what I tell the police at least.
Personally, I got tired of porn by age 20 simply cuz I looked at it all the time. Now, once in a while, I do look at porn if it's a fetish the wife doesn't care for. ...and that makes me have a hankerin' for my 15 year old daughter? Do you realize how many incest loving freaks there ARE out there?
Ladies: As with any other horrible crime, exaggerating the horror to the point of stupidity does NOT help your cause. Comparing a politician to Hitler just makes you sound like a kook.
Hank Williams recently had to apologize for comparing Obama to Hitler and well he should. Tea Party people do not want to lynch Blacks and fags. Pro-choicers don't want to kill babies and people that watch porn do not want to rape their own children. How fucked up in the head would you have to be to even consider that? Quite frankly it makes me afraid of the person with that view.
I will BBL. It's just after 6pm and time for me to masturbate to female bisexual amputee porn.
I believe that episode failed to address an important concern of the anti-porn movement. I believe that watching porn is not harmful - but what about the performers? There are so many porn stars who quit the industry and told horrifying stories about it. That's why I don't watch porn anymore, even though I'd really like to.
I think that porn is both harmful and benefitial to it's consumers.
I strongly suspect that the people who are presenting you with horror stories about the industry have alterior motives for disliking the porn industry. Do you have any causal hypothesis about what would cause the porn industry to be more dangerous or inhumane than any other industry? Or do you need to rely on cherry picked anecdotes and stories.
@St37One What ulterior motives do porn stars have, who quit the industry and say that it's horrible? It's very hard to make such a fundamental change in your life. It's very hard to admit that you made a terrible mistake. Why would they do that, if what they say was not true?
you missed the point about being one sided and cherry picking, which is cheap and easy and meaningless.
But how can you seriously ask why these industry badmouthing people exist in the first place?
Every industry has rejects, people who leave, and discontents. You could ask why would anyone badmouth thier ex boyfriend or ex girlfreind, why would anyone badmouth thier ex employer or ex friend?
I think you know the answer to that, and you know that it is commonplace.
@St37One But those actors often aren't rejects, but people who have been very successful in porn. Linda Lovelace, star of Deep Throat, which is probably the most successful porn film ever became an anti-porn activist. Marilyn Chambers, another big star of the '70s said "My advice to somebody who wants to go into adult films is: Absolutely not! It's heart-breaking." Jenna Jameson, maybe the most famous porn star in the world quit the industry and told horrifying details in her autobiography.
aging is inevitable, becoming a reject is inevitable. The porn industry does not age, only the porn stars do.
I am really not impressed with hystrionic sounding subjective evaluations that only refer to emotional states, calling it "heartbreaking" is just not informative. What are some of the concrete problems that are alleged to be associated with the porn industry?
@St37One But famous mainstream actresses who get old and don't get many roles anymore don't say such things about the film industry.
The high prevelance of STDs among porn performers is often brought up. Also, they have to perform sexual acts when they don't really want to. They have to completely distance sex from emotion. I believe this could lead to serious problems with mantaining relationships.
So these porn stars have some of the same problems that most other whores do.
The STD problem is caused by a culture of slutishness and whoreishness really, and nothing else.
The problem of pretending to enjoy (performing) is actually a consequence financial compensation that they receive. Duh. Do you think that customer service agents really love customers? No they don't, they just love the money. And garbage men don't love garbage either.
@St37One Garbage men don't love what they do, but nobody is supposed to love that. But sex is supposed to be a very enjoyable thing, and porn actors act like they enjoy it . And not only in the movies, in interviews, they say that they enjoy their work, that they got into porn because they love sex.
@St37One Also, I don't want to view porn stars as sluts and whores. I don't want to detest them. If a woman cannot be a porn star and lead a normal, happy and satisfactory life, the porn is not a good thing.
@St37One But it's not that they're not getting intrinsic pleasure from sex. They find no pleasure in their work at all. Worse than that, they say that it makes them damaged and unhappy. Many porn stars leave the industry after a few years; they're not rejected by it, they reject it. And they claim that they regret that they ever did porn. That's not true to most occupations.
Okay, if you hate the phrase "normal life" so much, what do you have against "happy" and "satisfactory"?
but supposing it is not only true that "many" porn stars end up regretting chosing a career in porn, but that the vast majority of them regret their choice. Then why is it that they had such high expectations initially? And are they being realistic about how wonderful thier alternatives were? The grass is always greener, as they say.
@St37One After they quit porn, they start pursuing other careers, and claim that they're much happier that way. So they do have better alternatives.
Why do they have high expectations? Well, according to anti-porn activists, it's because porn is deceptive, and people are not properly informed about the potential risks.
HAHAHA IN history women shave thier pubes for many good reasons, fleas ticks bed bugs and its more sensative and more fun when you have sex, since you can see what your doing,bush aint sexy its itchy an thats why there was a crabs epidemic in the 60s-90s .If you like bugs in your fanny then dont shave basicly.Priests dont have porn,they have pubes tho its a sin to shave em if your a monk isnt it?Theyve been molesting children an orphans for at least 8 thousand years.
He's right that as porn expands, rape declines. So does childbirth, marriage, and all forms of intimate monogamous sex. What porn does is exhaust male sexuality. Why bother having regular sex with a real person when you can have vicarious super fantasy sex with hot slutty babes? It's a disaster for human relationships and any sense of family, tribe, or community. As for those who watch porn and still "respect" women, I know a lot of alcoholics who "respect" liquor, or so they say.
@danallison100 Marriage is a plague,look at the rate of divorce in usa.Now its easier and women arent trapped in bullshit marriages with an overbearing assholes.Women were born to have many lovers,its society an the false dreams of love=1prince perfect charming thats drilled into thier pretty vacant heads from a young age is what sets em up for disaster when they experience reality.Sex isnt the foundation a relationship its just a fun way to express intimacy.Theres porn for every kinky taste.
actually view or use the products that they hate, but they are suddenly are experts on it overnight and use that "expertise" to enlighten the ignorant masses. Theres a trend of pure BS because ignorant retards with euphoric views somehow keep finding a way to be in mass media to spread their stupidity to the whole world.
Wow, this reminds me too much of the episodes of Video Game Violence and the Bible. People with degrees still making shit up to generate paranoia for the masses. Jack Thompson, The Gale lady, etc. I bet you none of them
I am a webcam model, using Penn and Teller's wonderful Pro Porn argument to help write my five page paper on why pornography does not objectify women.
I was hoping that they would dedicate a whole series of shows to different aspects of feminist BS. Not because feminism is BS per se, but because feminists are a prime source of popular B.S. But now their show is finnished :(
@St37One Aww damn !!!!! Their show finished. Not cool. Yeah most aspects of feminism is BS, some of it is true, but most false and with a man hating, family destroying agenda. Take Obama care for example, only support for women, but about men's health. Oh and keep in mind and I am not against women, and I am against aspects of feminism, not women.
@Manoffriendship You are disgusting. 100% disgusting. Feminism is the notion women are fully formed human beings. Attacking Planned Parenthood, which profoundly affects women, is hardly supporting women. The Republican war on women by attacking legal abortion access and a right to decide on their own bodies - there's a reason it's legal, when it wasn't, people died having them - is fascism. . Obama supports health for everyone, hence the healthcarebill. Dumb fuck.
@RollingLeaf22 Read Obama care and do your research, it is far too obvious that there is only support for women and not men, what happened to equality. And do not resort to name calling, instead learn to keep debate civilized and understand the other person's view point. See feminism is a ploy to break down the family structure, devalue the father's role in the family , thus forcing the woman to rely on the government. Feminism only benefits the government. not women, not men
Did that fucking fat fuck just try to say that men who like a shaved snatch will rape their daughters in a few years? I guess that means my girlfriend will likely rape our son if we have a boy because she likes my cock to be hair free. You see dumbass, when you make hasty generalisations they can be used AGAINST YOU!!!! Idiot!!!
WTF kind of drugs is this moron taking? I can't even believe I just heard that shit come from her mouth. WHAT. THE. FUCK?!?!?!?
Well HOLY SHIT! This cow is not only a feminist, but she fucking reads minds too. You do not know what I think you fucking elitist douche. You do not know how I treat my girlfriend or how I view my own mother. But by all means make that ASSumption. Moron.
I like how the scientists are like it makes it seem okay to think less of woman because we only view them as tits and ass, then P&T say no it doesn't. Then they take pictures of said scientist streching,. say look at her tits and ass, shes clearly wrong, because well LOOK TITS AND ASS.
The part where P&T interview "scientists" was in your imagination. The part where P&T show a female scientist stretching, was in your imagination. The part where P&T get you to look at a female scientists tits and ass was also in your imagination. You refered to all of these parts as "sick", and therefore your imagination is "sick".
Dianna Russel is a radical feminist political activist, author, and professor. She is not a “scientist” in any meaningful sense of the word.
Penn and teller were not actually objectifying Dianna russels tits or ass, but they were showing you how detached from reality/self absorbed this crackpot is and allowing her to humiliate herself for a larger audience. Who do you think made those images available in the first place?
She has a theory, she does research, that is science is it not? regardless of your viewpoint on it, is science. THE STUDY OF SOMETHING. Even if shes wrong. Much of science eventually is. It is clear to me that just because its a picture she made public, does not mean she wanted to be viewed in such a demeaning manner.! That choice was taken from her to discredit and make a joke of her. Its harmless i think, but hypocritical of pen and teller to do.
If merely developing a theory or model and conducting research is "science", then so are astrology, roman catholicism, and national socialism, sciences. If she would subject her model of how porn leads to rape to empirical testing/verification, then you could call her a scientist, that is, if her model was at least conceptually and logically coherent.
Whether or not she has been "demeaned" is in the eye of the beholder, not in the images or the "manner" of thier presentation.
@St37One If you find something tasteless or not, if it clearly was meant to be, and I'm sure if we asked those who created this episode it was, then it is guilty of doing what is has done to the majority, what it was intended to do, regardless of whether or not you feel it has done anything.
And if thinking that because you aren't offended its not offensive, then because she thinks porn IS offensive, it is. You can't have a one way street. A hypocrite defending the hypocritical. Nice.
okay, so you are saying that P&T have mens rea. Well, I dont think that any crime has been commited, and I think that any reasonable person would agree that if you post those pictures of yourself on your own website for the public to see, then this sort of thing is fair game. She is ultimately responsible for "demeaning" herself, even if P&T helped. It's like assisted character suicide.
Anyhow, what you said about P&T actually taking pictures of D.R. was plain wrong.
@St37One I never said they took the pictures only that they used them in an out-of-context way. Secondly the but-she-was-asking for it defense is a poor one at best. We as people don't have the right to do anything that makes others feel uncomfortable, sexually or otherwise. Now I can not be sure but I assume she didn't take those pictures to be ridiculed, its kind of her point that media images make it seem it is okay to do so. I think it was just silly proving her sort of right by doing it.
Actually you did say that they "took" the pictures, but I see now that you did not mean it that way.
Ridicule can be a wonderful thing, especially when ridiculous people are the victims of it.
You say that no one has the right to do anything that makes others feel uncomfortable. I say that the fewer the number of people who agree with that myopic sentiment, the better off we all are.
But I mean, within reason, if someone has done something wrong, it's not bad to hold them accountable, i don't think that expressing your disdain for a media that isn't very healthy be it mentally or physically or both makes a person ridiculous, or dangerous.
I'm not quite sure how or why you think basic respect for others is such an awful thing, but I feel sad for you.
I think that even to the extent that people can agree on some genuine universal principles for "basic respect" we will always need to have exceptions. For example, COMEDY! And I think that people know what to expect from penn and teller. Its not like these guys are trying to establish a reputation for being sensitive, or sweet, or bland. Rather they are polemicists and skeptics first and foremost, and they are also quite hilarious.
@St37One Ahh, that is true, they are there to get a reaction, and I was the one who said the way things are intended is just as important as the way you find them.
In fact in most cases I can find them funny as all hell myself, but they do come off as hypocrites once in a while.
As effective Iconoclasts they specialize in both debunking myths and dispelling idolatry, which necessarily involves creating a tolerant and desensitized haven for that which is “disrespectful” and “demeaning”. But the act of “demeaning” can only be effective for those who are under the spell of idolatry, hence “in the eye of the beholder.”
I don't see any hypocrasy on the part of P&T, and I dont see the merit in the nonsense that these activists are spreading.
There is another problem though since people often do not agree about what "basic respect" is, especially since it can sometimes be equated with other things (as you have done) such as not making someone feel uncomfortable. I don't think that people are really being serious and honest when they claim that a person can or should be held absolutely responsible for how their actions affect the feelings of everyone else. That is absurd, and it priveleges unverifiable subjectivity.
Even if these arguments were all completely legit, they still have to take into account that women could just as easily look at men in the same way. Women could just as easily feel "entitled to men's bodies" if the men are doing the very same things that the girls are doing in porn. That is, if what that retard lady says is supposed to be true anyway. (I was also kinda P.O.'d that there wasn't any dick shown in the uncensored version. >:( oh well. lol)
Why does this have to focus so much on the women? I'm a gay guy who likes to watch some nice man on man porn. If a man has sex with another man, and a woman or another gay guy like me watches it, then wouldn't that automatically imply that men are whores by nature as well? It just goes to show how one sided and sexist these bullshit arguments really are when they don't take everything into account.
There's a lot in porn to find fault with - the rampant sexism, the people coerced into having sex, the constant insults of women who have sex with a guy & then that guy goes and screws 800 other people but calls the woman he's sleeping with a whore, the fake female orgasms, thinking you have to disrespect women for men to be interested, the frequent racism, the list goes on. Watching sex on cam - not bad. Insulting women as a practice - bad.
Blah, blah, blah. It's always the man's fault when women willingly sign up for careers in the porn industry. I suppose you think that men are the biggest evil in the world but get pissed when they don't hold the door for you? Typical feminist lingo. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others can't and if you don't want to watch it, no one's forcing you. Porn will continue to exist, whether you like it or not. Just mind your own business and live your own life.
@Evenflowist314 Are you fucking kidding? Clearly, you have massive narcissistic issues to read self hatred in that statement. Do some good in this lifetime, get help.
I'm dead serious and no I'm not narcissistic at all, far from it. Self-hatred? Lolz, I didn't know you could do a psychiatric analysis based on typing on a Youtube video. I don't need help because I don't tell others what to do with their lives as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Porn doesn't force itself on anyone, contrary to your constant denial and excuse making. As I said, chicks choose to go into porn themselves so really, you have no argument. Cheers, buddy!
To all porn consumers - women from E. Europe are generally not willing participants. The internet porn industry has a lot of unwilling participants - click on shit where the people look American, sober & willing.
Penn & Teller aren't feminists. Feminism is the radical notion gender neither restricts nor defines your actions. Shocker! Kind of we pride ourselves on not being racist. This is some drivel bullshit. The KIND of porn being made doesn't respect a woman's orgasm. That's my problem w/it. Women literally don't get off & young guys get tips from it. It's sexism in action that bugs, not public sex.
@RollingLeaf22 If you're trying to learn a whole lot of sex tips from porn you're not gonna go far. Porn is theatrical ENTERTAINMENT staged for viewing. Its not documentary or instructive. The vast majority of people separate life from entertainment, pizza dudes aren't expecting blowjobs as alternative payment. And you generalize porn, a lot of porn does respect the female orgasm because many guys are excited by such a climax. Believe what you want but can't shove ideology down everyone's throat
@ONIProductionsLtd I'm not looking for sex tips. I'm a woman. Pornography, online, is increasingly the 1st encounter kids have w/ sex - it's not playboys anymore. The videos show unrealistic, imaginary videos of women FAKING orgasms & having little input, control or being respected on a strictly sexual basis. Why is ejaculate called the money shot & women fake theirs? With this image being the primary one, it's seriously warping ideas about gender & sex.
@ONIProductionsLtd You don't understand that it's playing into a larger construct & enforcing very sexist ideals as well as unrealistic ideas about sex. Penetration is not the only thing. Men I have dated who grew up watching porn have been influenced & are not great in bed. Most porn, 99% of porn, fakes a female's climax & only shows penetration as sex when 75% of women don't come from that.
@RollingLeaf22 Instead of censoring porn, how bout we teach people about respect, and separating fantasy and reality, entertainment and real life situations, and teaching healthy sexuality. But its not for us to put our hand in a work of someone else's like porn or other media. And people will be turned on by what they will, its natural.
@ONIProductionsLtd Porn's a combined source of entertainment &yes, education for young people, the sexism in most of the porn - watch this whore suck my dick, etc. - is 1. Disgusting. 2. Degradation is a sexual niche. Porn that is sexist makes all porn degradation porn & normalizes sexist attitudes 3. Is not the way women get turned on & climax. Period. It would be like if women watched porn where men had screaming orgasms from having their balls tickled & were called slut. Every time.
@RollingLeaf22 I am a male, I saw porn long before I had sex, as young as twelve, and I knew it was very unrealistic. My first time was very unlike porn, and it did NOT make me a sexist pig. I am VERY respectful of women and hate that kind of dirty talk in porn never mind in person. Not all people are brainwashed by porn if they acknowledge it is not a depiction of the real act. Yes, some weaker minds are turned into pigs but that was true LONG before pornographic video.
@ONIProductionsLtd That's awesome. I am not suggesting a porn censorship, I think in you & I are on the same page in most respects. I'm suggesting it be called out as a fantasy & have a conversation about the different kinds of porn out there. Teaching, discussing, listening - I'm w/ you. I'm 100% uncomfortable with every naked woman on the internet being called a bitch. It's fucked the fuck up. I'm suggesting a discussion & speaking the truth.
@RollingLeaf22 Im glad we can agree and discuss like this, (why I love the internet) and only wish discussions like this could be wider. As a communications major I talk a lot about media and think everyone should since its such a big part of life. Porn included. If people could grow up and maturely talk about such subject matter we could educate people. People are so uneducated artistic nudes are even looked at the wrong way. How did things get this messed up? People not wanting to talk bout it
@ONIProductionsLtd Yep, exactamundo. There's nothing wrong with sex. It's respect & the golden rule that, when unfollowed, gets shit twisted! Good luck with school. Keep talking!
I'm not going to say specifically that porn fortifies rape, but it is potentially very addictive and it DOES influence your thoughts. Sociologically speaking, it probably slows down rape mainly because their seem more and more women that do this for a living, this is the society we're becoming. Not trying to say that it's a good or bad thing, but it can have a negative impact on a lot of people, and certainly can impact the structure of a strong country, at least one that has values against it.
and women aren't allowed to make their own decisions, such as the decision to make a porn movie.
the feminist movement is really just an anti-people movement that wants to eliminate people's choices and freedom, isn't it? if we actually listened to feminists, we would be like 18th century presbyterians, and all sex would be hetereosexual vaginal intercourse in the missionary position for the sole purpose of procreation.
People forget that the early feminist movement supported porn, what with the idea that women should be free to do what they want with their own bodies, an idea that seems to have been done away with. There are female porn directors. People should do what they want, as long as no one is being hurt or exploited or forced. Fuck these ladies. They don't know what they are talking about.
I'm a woman, I don't watch porn, but I understand it. I "get it" why men and women find it tantalizing and I see nothing wrong with it. I don't get the hoopla, what's the problem? I still stick by the: "if you don't like it, don't watch it" deal. No need to be angry. Objectifying women doesn't have to be negative. I think some women take it too personal and internalize it and assume it reflects on their lack of qualities somehow. That's not how it works. Genuinely, I don't see the problem.
@lancekatre I still don't follow. What exactly is the "this" you refer to as being the problem? That Penn and Teller might show how men and women view it differently? Or is that you like the idea of women being ignorant of (a) women in porn choose to be there and (b) men can differentiate between women as human beings, and women choosing to showcase their physicality through by concensing to be involved in porn?
This is exactly like the war on video games. If the people watching the porn can't tell the difference between fake and real, and try to apply it to real life, all the other adult needs to do if they don't want to is say "no". if that doesn't work, fight back or call the cops, cause it'd be rape. just because porn gives someone an idea doesn't mean it's the porn that forces them to do anything. I have yet to see porn that says "Try this at home, even if your partner doesn't want to! It's ok!"
@St37One If you can't tell if you view people as objects or not, you have issues. Having feelings or empathy for someone is a pretty clear sign that you don't view them as an object.
@DeadFishFactory most women have been lied and abused by the time they make it on camera. And even those who don't, have permanent psychological wounds from it. Plus, men who watch porn have no idea of how to please a woman, they learn/get used to things that have nothing to do with what good real sex is.
Porn that is humans killing each other with guns bombs grenades it is realy degrading and it is dehumanising and traumatic for children. Nevertheless it is big business and therfore justified by the people who know each other but do not kill each other but they order people who do not know each other kill each other. War is the real pornographic business in the world.
Porn in the poorer countries is big business and is in turn linked to prostitution. This destroys lives. Those involved in the industry are often the losers. Adults watching adults having sex is not a bad thing but that is not the whole story.
and now Gale to bring the libertairian side of this to the argument where in the constitution does it say i cant watch porn if i want to
whhyyyyyyyyyy 1 week ago
The theory about shaved pubic hair, is by far the worst argument I've heard from these anti-porn people. Does that mean a woman is a pedophile if she likes guys who shave their chest hair??? Body hair in general is just out of fashion!
itscat92 2 weeks ago
@itscat92 My girlfriend is a paedophile because she likes it when I just shaved my moustache. lol
elmohead 6 days ago
@elmohead Lol, yeah call the cops on that sicko! :P
itscat92 6 days ago
Rape has been around since the begining of time (atleast people). If somebody becomes a rapist because of watching porn, then they were already messed up in the first place. Of course sexual abuse in the porn industry is a problem, but making porn illegal is not the solution. That would be just as stupid as prohibition, which if I was paying attention properly in school, was started because too many drunks were beating their wives & kids.
itscat92 2 weeks ago
Has anybody noticed that all these wack job woman are from Europe? Even the wack job Peta lady is from Europe. So maybe they should just go back to Europe.
mokeimusic 3 weeks ago
@mokeimusic You can find wackjob American women. Look at Bachmann and to a lesser extent Palin.
FatherTime89 2 weeks ago
@FatherTime89 but they are not out trying to ban everything,Bachmann and Palin just want to make money.
mokeimusic 2 weeks ago
@FatherTime89 Lesser extent? Palin is just as crazy as Bachmann any day. Miserable cunts with sticks up their asses.
eklera 1 week ago
chicks are generally against pron because its their rival...
bettydaw1970 1 month ago
ever jack off to porn? did u want to go rape someone afterwards?
bettydaw1970 1 month ago
*women in porn have shaved pubic hair* not all... and the GUYS do it WAAYYYY more often. Its almost mandatory.
*porn gives men the predisposition that women are objects of sex* this is pretty much the same argument that people playing violent video games will become desensitized. short answer: you underestimate us as a whole. we can tell the actresses in porn are not acting like a real woman. Porn is merely an object to masturbate to and get some sexual tension out
uncensored008 1 month ago
@uncensored008 actually that second "short" answer wasn't that short...
uncensored008 1 month ago
porn --> masturbation --> relaxation --> less rape
shapein 1 month ago
@shapein
exactly!!!!!!
bettydaw1970 1 month ago
love the end lol
abc1236092 1 month ago
Where's part 1?
cossack77 1 month ago
I think the 90's style landing strip pubic hair on women was way hotter than the modern completely bald look though
dubified89 2 months ago 2
The worst part is that they all get government funding to spew this crap so we're forced to pay for it.
dubified89 2 months ago 2
Attacking porn as the cause of rape or deviant sexual behavior is a classic example of the failure to determine causation versus correlation and achieves absolutely nothing in the end. But some people go too far by belittling or misrepresenting the concept of rape itself. Don't make the same illogical mistakes as the anti-porn crusaders. Just because they fudge the conviction numbers and tend to paint all men as potential rapists it doesn't mean rape isn't a huge problem in society.
icemachine79 2 months ago 6
@icemachine79
Just because rape is a problem, doesn't mean that false accusations of rape are not a problem.
The concept of rape is the concept of sexual theft. Shedding light on rape is difficult because even in cases where it can be proven that a sexual exchange did take place, when the matter of consent is disputed, it is almost impossible to prove one way or the other. Reversing the burden of proof has given women the power to ruin any man's life for any reason at all.
St37One 2 months ago 6
That chick is fat, shes never going to be in a porno so she trys to take it down
KitJJspc 2 months ago
Rape isn't about sex, its about power.... Prostitution has been legal in Australia since 1990... It works.....
openmindedozzie 2 months ago
@openmindedozzie
There is a false dichotomy implicit in your claim that rape is about power, not sex. It also happens to be a common cliche, a slogan, and an piece of propaganda.
Reproduction/sexual gratification is clearly the goal of both rape and sex. The only difference is the means. One means is legitimate and moral, the other means is theft and immoral.
The fact that rape can in some circumstances be used to punish does not change the definition or essence of what rape is.
St37One 2 months ago
@St37One Since rape by its very definition involves lack of consent from the victim, how can it *not* be about the rapist assuming power over them? The victim has made the decision not to have sex (either by actually saying no or by cultural default - consensual sex must always be invited) but the rapist has overridden that decision regardless of the victim's wishes. To say rape is not about power is just as gross an oversimplification of the crime as to imply there's no sexual aspect to it.
icemachine79 2 months ago
@icemachine79
And as you have pointed out, the claim that rape is really about power and control is true in the trivial sense, but false in the more profound sense. You seem to have ignored the fact that I was pointing out the false dichotomy in that claim. That cliche is used not to inform people of the obvious truth that they already know, but to alter thier worldview and mislead them. There is no objective truth about how bad the rape problem is, but the proposed solutions are the key here.
St37One 2 months ago
@icemachine79
Understand that they are not honestly trying to address the problem of rape in general. Rather they are trying to use this issue as an excuse to make strategic changes to cultural norms and institutions. The absurd worldview that they try to propagate pits females against males in a zero sum conflict. By siding with victims (women) as a cover, they simply attack the foundations of western liberal democracy (where the enemy lurks) until thier real motives become apparent.
St37One 2 months ago
@openmindedozzie
I say that it is "propaganda" because this is part of the radical feminist agenda to connect rape with violence against women, and to simultaneously inflate both the frequency and intensity of rape through the use of clever language games and hysteria. Man hating feminists love to say that rape is "about power and control" because they want all interactions and relations between the sexes to be conceptualized within that duluth paradigm. It's about mind control, not rape.
St37One 2 months ago 2
censore.... sux
piloooogen 2 months ago
The thought of Penn & Teller watching porn makes me sick. :-)
Funkentelechy100 2 months ago
I was gonna make a sex joke
butt fuck it
Minority119 2 months ago
Thumbs up if youve doe a DP!
londonosarria 2 months ago
Damn! I'm trying to come up with a rape joke, but no... I'm blank
toodrunktomakelove 3 months ago
pfffft all i see in a porn movie is tits, arses, dick and cunt I dehumanize man and women... why do they keep saying its just women who are seen as objects? men are just the same,
xxSophiexSmithxx 3 months ago
@xxSophiexSmithxx they have their own agenda, Gail Dines has been known to bullshit and lie before.
robokill387 2 months ago
Porns great... just as long as no one gets hurt ^^ an im a girl whoop whoop
xxSophiexSmithxx 3 months ago 11
@xxSophiexSmithxx
and why do they claim that it dehumanizes?
because they want to make shit up!
and they are hypocrites
Is sex dehumanizing? Is work dehumanizing? Is politics dehumanizing?
It's just another way of expressing thier dislike of porn, but while pretending that it does something objective and real and negative to people, like increasing thier sin levels.
St37One 3 months ago 2
@xxSophiexSmithxx girls are generally opposed to porn, because its their rival!
bettydaw1970 1 month ago
@bettydaw1970 I think its silly to think of porn as a rival... its more like an aid so that people can experiment together and get Ideas from what they watch... it keeps your sex life healthy and exciting with all the different positions and toys etc And personally I wouldnt mind my bf jackin off to porn (specially if i was ther with him:3) ... its better than being a prude :3
xxSophiexSmithxx 1 month ago
@xxSophiexSmithxx It makes sense that some women (feminist women) veiw porn as a rival, because it threatens takes away thier monopoly power over the supply of sexual gratification by providing an alternative for men. Some feminists also teach women to masturbate as part of a feminist initiative for the same reason (providing an alternative to men). They want to control men indirectly by making them more dependant on women, and by manipulating women and making them dependant on the state.
St37One 1 month ago
@St37One its sad thats it all about control... they should chill out and if they want to have control over their man then they should invest in some BDSM equipment... their is nothing more satisfying that watching a man squirm from pleasure at your hands :3 But seriously if you loved you boyfriend then you wouldn't want to control them in that way. If its not harming anyone and they enjoy it then why not let them. We dont have states in the UK but I get where you are coming from
xxSophiexSmithxx 1 month ago
@xxSophiexSmithxx
"the state" is just a shorthand way of refering to any government/political body that commands a monopoly on the use of violence (police and military). Its jargon, and it is not a reference to "states" as in the united states of america. For example, the UK is a "state", and the UN contains "member states".
St37One 1 month ago
@St37One We never use that term its either the goverment or a political party :3
xxSophiexSmithxx 1 month ago
I lost my virginity when I was 17. I stayed with her until I was 18 and haven't had sex since. I'm 21 now.. Not exactly proud of it but what I'm trying to say here is that without pornography I strongly feel that my regular sexual urges would turn into something unhealthy.. Or even dangerous. There's nothing like a little sexual release :)
IntoTheEternity 3 months ago
@IntoTheEternity get out and pick up man! you know you can do it
weirdcode1 3 months ago
NICE DAY !! U.
hotdave86000 3 months ago
no porn less penned up slutty , with no porn more slutty in the street less of them owned by two hundred , fifty million pornographic companies world wide that's ( 250 - 300 ) one upto thousands that are in 1 company enslaved ( white slavery an unseen cult ) if they are abolished more the sex , hippies era the 1960's forever , everyone's vagina anal penis will be happy for the whole entire world , get with the plan
( theonecureforalldiseases com , '' the one minute cure '' ) ???
hotdave86000 3 months ago
I dont see how they think porn even translates to the bedroom. if i got off watching a chick being DP'd by two black dudes, is that what i want in my bedroom? fuck no that means i wouldnt even be in the equation! what about a bukkake? not on my fuckin sheets! even if you got off to rape porn, it seems to me like it would be the same as enjoying killing people in a video game or loving gory movies... ya know, no connection to real life pleasures.
PrairieDon1021 3 months ago 21
@PrairieDon1021 "it would be the same as enjoying killing people in a video game or loving gory movies...ya know, no connection to real life pleasures." That's what I tell the police at least.
FatherTime89 2 weeks ago
Ok, what about all the women that watch porn? Eh? o_0
LemonPopsiclez 3 months ago 3
Personally, I got tired of porn by age 20 simply cuz I looked at it all the time. Now, once in a while, I do look at porn if it's a fetish the wife doesn't care for. ...and that makes me have a hankerin' for my 15 year old daughter? Do you realize how many incest loving freaks there ARE out there?
Ladies: As with any other horrible crime, exaggerating the horror to the point of stupidity does NOT help your cause. Comparing a politician to Hitler just makes you sound like a kook.
jonnygouda1 3 months ago
Hank Williams recently had to apologize for comparing Obama to Hitler and well he should. Tea Party people do not want to lynch Blacks and fags. Pro-choicers don't want to kill babies and people that watch porn do not want to rape their own children. How fucked up in the head would you have to be to even consider that? Quite frankly it makes me afraid of the person with that view.
I will BBL. It's just after 6pm and time for me to masturbate to female bisexual amputee porn.
jonnygouda1 3 months ago
Penn's third eye at 4:09
htiberian 3 months ago
@htiberian BAHAHAhahahahaha!!! I noticed that, too!
jonnygouda1 3 months ago
I believe that episode failed to address an important concern of the anti-porn movement. I believe that watching porn is not harmful - but what about the performers? There are so many porn stars who quit the industry and told horrifying stories about it. That's why I don't watch porn anymore, even though I'd really like to.
Aqquila89 4 months ago
@Aqquila89
I dissagree.
I think that porn is both harmful and benefitial to it's consumers.
I strongly suspect that the people who are presenting you with horror stories about the industry have alterior motives for disliking the porn industry. Do you have any causal hypothesis about what would cause the porn industry to be more dangerous or inhumane than any other industry? Or do you need to rely on cherry picked anecdotes and stories.
St37One 4 months ago
@St37One What ulterior motives do porn stars have, who quit the industry and say that it's horrible? It's very hard to make such a fundamental change in your life. It's very hard to admit that you made a terrible mistake. Why would they do that, if what they say was not true?
Aqquila89 3 months ago
@Aqquila89
you missed the point about being one sided and cherry picking, which is cheap and easy and meaningless.
But how can you seriously ask why these industry badmouthing people exist in the first place?
Every industry has rejects, people who leave, and discontents. You could ask why would anyone badmouth thier ex boyfriend or ex girlfreind, why would anyone badmouth thier ex employer or ex friend?
I think you know the answer to that, and you know that it is commonplace.
St37One 3 months ago
@St37One But those actors often aren't rejects, but people who have been very successful in porn. Linda Lovelace, star of Deep Throat, which is probably the most successful porn film ever became an anti-porn activist. Marilyn Chambers, another big star of the '70s said "My advice to somebody who wants to go into adult films is: Absolutely not! It's heart-breaking." Jenna Jameson, maybe the most famous porn star in the world quit the industry and told horrifying details in her autobiography.
Aqquila89 3 months ago
@Aqquila89
aging is inevitable, becoming a reject is inevitable. The porn industry does not age, only the porn stars do.
I am really not impressed with hystrionic sounding subjective evaluations that only refer to emotional states, calling it "heartbreaking" is just not informative. What are some of the concrete problems that are alleged to be associated with the porn industry?
St37One 3 months ago
@St37One But famous mainstream actresses who get old and don't get many roles anymore don't say such things about the film industry.
The high prevelance of STDs among porn performers is often brought up. Also, they have to perform sexual acts when they don't really want to. They have to completely distance sex from emotion. I believe this could lead to serious problems with mantaining relationships.
Aqquila89 3 months ago
@Aqquila89 finally we are getting somewhere.
So these porn stars have some of the same problems that most other whores do.
The STD problem is caused by a culture of slutishness and whoreishness really, and nothing else.
The problem of pretending to enjoy (performing) is actually a consequence financial compensation that they receive. Duh. Do you think that customer service agents really love customers? No they don't, they just love the money. And garbage men don't love garbage either.
St37One 3 months ago
@St37One Garbage men don't love what they do, but nobody is supposed to love that. But sex is supposed to be a very enjoyable thing, and porn actors act like they enjoy it . And not only in the movies, in interviews, they say that they enjoy their work, that they got into porn because they love sex.
Aqquila89 3 months ago
@Aqquila89
people usually say that they love thier occupation.
people usually say that they love thier significant others.
its just bla bla bla.
who cares?
There is no sacred need to enjoy sex, or food, or any of lifes intrinsic pleasures.
People can have many motivations for what they do which are not necessarily the most "intrinsic".
Sometimes men and women do have sex just to please thier partner, and they don't need to admit it.
Sometimes people eat because other people are.
St37One 3 months ago
@St37One Also, I don't want to view porn stars as sluts and whores. I don't want to detest them. If a woman cannot be a porn star and lead a normal, happy and satisfactory life, the porn is not a good thing.
Aqquila89 3 months ago
@Aqquila89
most celebrities are not able to live normal lives
most CEOs are not able to live normal lives
most people do not live normal lives
the normal life is a lie! stop buying into the BS!
St37One 3 months ago
@St37One But it's not that they're not getting intrinsic pleasure from sex. They find no pleasure in their work at all. Worse than that, they say that it makes them damaged and unhappy. Many porn stars leave the industry after a few years; they're not rejected by it, they reject it. And they claim that they regret that they ever did porn. That's not true to most occupations.
Okay, if you hate the phrase "normal life" so much, what do you have against "happy" and "satisfactory"?
Aqquila89 3 months ago
@Aqquila89
because what people do is more revealing than what they say they want or believe.
happiness is just a motivator, hence its ephemeral and illusive nature, and not an end in itself.
St37One 3 months ago
@St37One I don't really see how this is a response to my claims.
Aqquila89 3 months ago
@Aqquila89
well it is.
but supposing it is not only true that "many" porn stars end up regretting chosing a career in porn, but that the vast majority of them regret their choice. Then why is it that they had such high expectations initially? And are they being realistic about how wonderful thier alternatives were? The grass is always greener, as they say.
St37One 3 months ago
@St37One After they quit porn, they start pursuing other careers, and claim that they're much happier that way. So they do have better alternatives.
Why do they have high expectations? Well, according to anti-porn activists, it's because porn is deceptive, and people are not properly informed about the potential risks.
Aqquila89 3 months ago
HAHAHA IN history women shave thier pubes for many good reasons, fleas ticks bed bugs and its more sensative and more fun when you have sex, since you can see what your doing,bush aint sexy its itchy an thats why there was a crabs epidemic in the 60s-90s .If you like bugs in your fanny then dont shave basicly.Priests dont have porn,they have pubes tho its a sin to shave em if your a monk isnt it?Theyve been molesting children an orphans for at least 8 thousand years.
Thelondonbadger 4 months ago
He's right that as porn expands, rape declines. So does childbirth, marriage, and all forms of intimate monogamous sex. What porn does is exhaust male sexuality. Why bother having regular sex with a real person when you can have vicarious super fantasy sex with hot slutty babes? It's a disaster for human relationships and any sense of family, tribe, or community. As for those who watch porn and still "respect" women, I know a lot of alcoholics who "respect" liquor, or so they say.
danallison100 4 months ago
@danallison100 Marriage is a plague,look at the rate of divorce in usa.Now its easier and women arent trapped in bullshit marriages with an overbearing assholes.Women were born to have many lovers,its society an the false dreams of love=1prince perfect charming thats drilled into thier pretty vacant heads from a young age is what sets em up for disaster when they experience reality.Sex isnt the foundation a relationship its just a fun way to express intimacy.Theres porn for every kinky taste.
Thelondonbadger 4 months ago
actually view or use the products that they hate, but they are suddenly are experts on it overnight and use that "expertise" to enlighten the ignorant masses. Theres a trend of pure BS because ignorant retards with euphoric views somehow keep finding a way to be in mass media to spread their stupidity to the whole world.
FreezinFlamesGT 4 months ago
Wow, this reminds me too much of the episodes of Video Game Violence and the Bible. People with degrees still making shit up to generate paranoia for the masses. Jack Thompson, The Gale lady, etc. I bet you none of them
FreezinFlamesGT 4 months ago
I'm a feminist. I watch porn.
Nomorebiscuits 4 months ago
@Nomorebiscuits Women that like porn are hot
DelinquentBilly 4 months ago
I am a webcam model, using Penn and Teller's wonderful Pro Porn argument to help write my five page paper on why pornography does not objectify women.
TVSheShe 4 months ago
OMG!! Can you imagine if they did an episode on Feminism and how bullshit feminism is!! Now that would be amazing !!!
Manoffriendship 4 months ago
@Manoffriendship
I was hoping that they would dedicate a whole series of shows to different aspects of feminist BS. Not because feminism is BS per se, but because feminists are a prime source of popular B.S. But now their show is finnished :(
St37One 4 months ago
@St37One Aww damn !!!!! Their show finished. Not cool. Yeah most aspects of feminism is BS, some of it is true, but most false and with a man hating, family destroying agenda. Take Obama care for example, only support for women, but about men's health. Oh and keep in mind and I am not against women, and I am against aspects of feminism, not women.
Manoffriendship 4 months ago
@Manoffriendship You are disgusting. 100% disgusting. Feminism is the notion women are fully formed human beings. Attacking Planned Parenthood, which profoundly affects women, is hardly supporting women. The Republican war on women by attacking legal abortion access and a right to decide on their own bodies - there's a reason it's legal, when it wasn't, people died having them - is fascism. . Obama supports health for everyone, hence the healthcarebill. Dumb fuck.
RollingLeaf22 4 months ago
@RollingLeaf22 Read Obama care and do your research, it is far too obvious that there is only support for women and not men, what happened to equality. And do not resort to name calling, instead learn to keep debate civilized and understand the other person's view point. See feminism is a ploy to break down the family structure, devalue the father's role in the family , thus forcing the woman to rely on the government. Feminism only benefits the government. not women, not men
Manoffriendship 4 months ago
@Manoffriendship Shame on you. Racism is awesome too, btw.
RollingLeaf22 4 months ago
Enjoying being raped? WTF?
LemonPopsiclez 4 months ago in playlist Bullshit
Plenty of women watch porn too. Jus' sayin.
LemonPopsiclez 4 months ago in playlist Bullshit 2
Did that fucking fat fuck just try to say that men who like a shaved snatch will rape their daughters in a few years? I guess that means my girlfriend will likely rape our son if we have a boy because she likes my cock to be hair free. You see dumbass, when you make hasty generalisations they can be used AGAINST YOU!!!! Idiot!!!
WTF kind of drugs is this moron taking? I can't even believe I just heard that shit come from her mouth. WHAT. THE. FUCK?!?!?!?
SCROGY 4 months ago 23
"It makes men think"
Well HOLY SHIT! This cow is not only a feminist, but she fucking reads minds too. You do not know what I think you fucking elitist douche. You do not know how I treat my girlfriend or how I view my own mother. But by all means make that ASSumption. Moron.
SCROGY 4 months ago 2
How come every "feminist" is either a fat cow or ugly as shit? Or both? Just wondering.
SCROGY 4 months ago
I like how the scientists are like it makes it seem okay to think less of woman because we only view them as tits and ass, then P&T say no it doesn't. Then they take pictures of said scientist streching,. say look at her tits and ass, shes clearly wrong, because well LOOK TITS AND ASS.
Sick.
DeviousToster 4 months ago
@DeviousToster
The part where P&T interview "scientists" was in your imagination. The part where P&T show a female scientist stretching, was in your imagination. The part where P&T get you to look at a female scientists tits and ass was also in your imagination. You refered to all of these parts as "sick", and therefore your imagination is "sick".
St37One 4 months ago
@St37One Did you just say I made something up, that happens to have video proof, like right on this page? Really?
Your a genuis, no, no. really you are.
DeviousToster 4 months ago
@DeviousToster
Dianna Russel is a radical feminist political activist, author, and professor. She is not a “scientist” in any meaningful sense of the word.
Penn and teller were not actually objectifying Dianna russels tits or ass, but they were showing you how detached from reality/self absorbed this crackpot is and allowing her to humiliate herself for a larger audience. Who do you think made those images available in the first place?
St37One 4 months ago
@St37One
She has a theory, she does research, that is science is it not? regardless of your viewpoint on it, is science. THE STUDY OF SOMETHING. Even if shes wrong. Much of science eventually is. It is clear to me that just because its a picture she made public, does not mean she wanted to be viewed in such a demeaning manner.! That choice was taken from her to discredit and make a joke of her. Its harmless i think, but hypocritical of pen and teller to do.
DeviousToster 4 months ago
@DeviousToster
If merely developing a theory or model and conducting research is "science", then so are astrology, roman catholicism, and national socialism, sciences. If she would subject her model of how porn leads to rape to empirical testing/verification, then you could call her a scientist, that is, if her model was at least conceptually and logically coherent.
Whether or not she has been "demeaned" is in the eye of the beholder, not in the images or the "manner" of thier presentation.
St37One 4 months ago
@St37One If you find something tasteless or not, if it clearly was meant to be, and I'm sure if we asked those who created this episode it was, then it is guilty of doing what is has done to the majority, what it was intended to do, regardless of whether or not you feel it has done anything.
And if thinking that because you aren't offended its not offensive, then because she thinks porn IS offensive, it is. You can't have a one way street. A hypocrite defending the hypocritical. Nice.
DeviousToster 4 months ago
@DeviousToster
okay, so you are saying that P&T have mens rea. Well, I dont think that any crime has been commited, and I think that any reasonable person would agree that if you post those pictures of yourself on your own website for the public to see, then this sort of thing is fair game. She is ultimately responsible for "demeaning" herself, even if P&T helped. It's like assisted character suicide.
Anyhow, what you said about P&T actually taking pictures of D.R. was plain wrong.
St37One 4 months ago
@St37One I never said they took the pictures only that they used them in an out-of-context way. Secondly the but-she-was-asking for it defense is a poor one at best. We as people don't have the right to do anything that makes others feel uncomfortable, sexually or otherwise. Now I can not be sure but I assume she didn't take those pictures to be ridiculed, its kind of her point that media images make it seem it is okay to do so. I think it was just silly proving her sort of right by doing it.
DeviousToster 4 months ago
@DeviousToster
Actually you did say that they "took" the pictures, but I see now that you did not mean it that way.
Ridicule can be a wonderful thing, especially when ridiculous people are the victims of it.
You say that no one has the right to do anything that makes others feel uncomfortable. I say that the fewer the number of people who agree with that myopic sentiment, the better off we all are.
St37One 4 months ago
@St37One I guess I did say "took" my fault :<
But I mean, within reason, if someone has done something wrong, it's not bad to hold them accountable, i don't think that expressing your disdain for a media that isn't very healthy be it mentally or physically or both makes a person ridiculous, or dangerous.
I'm not quite sure how or why you think basic respect for others is such an awful thing, but I feel sad for you.
DeviousToster 4 months ago
@DeviousToster
I appreciate your heartfelt empathy.
I think that even to the extent that people can agree on some genuine universal principles for "basic respect" we will always need to have exceptions. For example, COMEDY! And I think that people know what to expect from penn and teller. Its not like these guys are trying to establish a reputation for being sensitive, or sweet, or bland. Rather they are polemicists and skeptics first and foremost, and they are also quite hilarious.
St37One 4 months ago
@St37One Ahh, that is true, they are there to get a reaction, and I was the one who said the way things are intended is just as important as the way you find them.
In fact in most cases I can find them funny as all hell myself, but they do come off as hypocrites once in a while.
DeviousToster 4 months ago
@DeviousToster
As effective Iconoclasts they specialize in both debunking myths and dispelling idolatry, which necessarily involves creating a tolerant and desensitized haven for that which is “disrespectful” and “demeaning”. But the act of “demeaning” can only be effective for those who are under the spell of idolatry, hence “in the eye of the beholder.”
I don't see any hypocrasy on the part of P&T, and I dont see the merit in the nonsense that these activists are spreading.
St37One 4 months ago
@DeviousToster
There is another problem though since people often do not agree about what "basic respect" is, especially since it can sometimes be equated with other things (as you have done) such as not making someone feel uncomfortable. I don't think that people are really being serious and honest when they claim that a person can or should be held absolutely responsible for how their actions affect the feelings of everyone else. That is absurd, and it priveleges unverifiable subjectivity.
St37One 4 months ago
I'm all for titalation & various kinds of pornography & fantasy, etc. When ALL porn is degrading, sexist, & insulting - Fucking unacceptable.
RollingLeaf22 4 months ago
This woman just doesn't get it.
ZachRose88 4 months ago
Even if these arguments were all completely legit, they still have to take into account that women could just as easily look at men in the same way. Women could just as easily feel "entitled to men's bodies" if the men are doing the very same things that the girls are doing in porn. That is, if what that retard lady says is supposed to be true anyway. (I was also kinda P.O.'d that there wasn't any dick shown in the uncensored version. >:( oh well. lol)
luxord2654 4 months ago
Why does this have to focus so much on the women? I'm a gay guy who likes to watch some nice man on man porn. If a man has sex with another man, and a woman or another gay guy like me watches it, then wouldn't that automatically imply that men are whores by nature as well? It just goes to show how one sided and sexist these bullshit arguments really are when they don't take everything into account.
luxord2654 4 months ago
This woman is a shit rhetorician
SUpersaiyajinjerkbag 5 months ago in playlist Anti Porn/Prostution Smackdown
Notice how the only people who bitch about porn are fat?
Evenflowist314 5 months ago
@Evenflowist314 Penn's a lard ass.
RollingLeaf22 4 months ago
@RollingLeaf22
Still doesn't bitch about it so he loses some pounds
Evenflowist314 4 months ago
@Evenflowist314 That's ridiculous.
RollingLeaf22 4 months ago
@RollingLeaf22
Like people who bitch about porn
Evenflowist314 4 months ago
@Evenflowist314 You're ridiculous,
RollingLeaf22 4 months ago
There's a lot in porn to find fault with - the rampant sexism, the people coerced into having sex, the constant insults of women who have sex with a guy & then that guy goes and screws 800 other people but calls the woman he's sleeping with a whore, the fake female orgasms, thinking you have to disrespect women for men to be interested, the frequent racism, the list goes on. Watching sex on cam - not bad. Insulting women as a practice - bad.
RollingLeaf22 4 months ago
@RollingLeaf22
Blah, blah, blah. It's always the man's fault when women willingly sign up for careers in the porn industry. I suppose you think that men are the biggest evil in the world but get pissed when they don't hold the door for you? Typical feminist lingo. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others can't and if you don't want to watch it, no one's forcing you. Porn will continue to exist, whether you like it or not. Just mind your own business and live your own life.
Evenflowist314 4 months ago
@Evenflowist314 Are you fucking kidding? Clearly, you have massive narcissistic issues to read self hatred in that statement. Do some good in this lifetime, get help.
RollingLeaf22 4 months ago
@RollingLeaf22
I'm dead serious and no I'm not narcissistic at all, far from it. Self-hatred? Lolz, I didn't know you could do a psychiatric analysis based on typing on a Youtube video. I don't need help because I don't tell others what to do with their lives as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Porn doesn't force itself on anyone, contrary to your constant denial and excuse making. As I said, chicks choose to go into porn themselves so really, you have no argument. Cheers, buddy!
Evenflowist314 4 months ago
To all porn consumers - women from E. Europe are generally not willing participants. The internet porn industry has a lot of unwilling participants - click on shit where the people look American, sober & willing.
RollingLeaf22 5 months ago
Penn & Teller aren't feminists. Feminism is the radical notion gender neither restricts nor defines your actions. Shocker! Kind of we pride ourselves on not being racist. This is some drivel bullshit. The KIND of porn being made doesn't respect a woman's orgasm. That's my problem w/it. Women literally don't get off & young guys get tips from it. It's sexism in action that bugs, not public sex.
RollingLeaf22 5 months ago
@RollingLeaf22 If you're trying to learn a whole lot of sex tips from porn you're not gonna go far. Porn is theatrical ENTERTAINMENT staged for viewing. Its not documentary or instructive. The vast majority of people separate life from entertainment, pizza dudes aren't expecting blowjobs as alternative payment. And you generalize porn, a lot of porn does respect the female orgasm because many guys are excited by such a climax. Believe what you want but can't shove ideology down everyone's throat
ONIProductionsLtd 4 months ago
@ONIProductionsLtd I'm not looking for sex tips. I'm a woman. Pornography, online, is increasingly the 1st encounter kids have w/ sex - it's not playboys anymore. The videos show unrealistic, imaginary videos of women FAKING orgasms & having little input, control or being respected on a strictly sexual basis. Why is ejaculate called the money shot & women fake theirs? With this image being the primary one, it's seriously warping ideas about gender & sex.
RollingLeaf22 4 months ago
@ONIProductionsLtd You don't understand that it's playing into a larger construct & enforcing very sexist ideals as well as unrealistic ideas about sex. Penetration is not the only thing. Men I have dated who grew up watching porn have been influenced & are not great in bed. Most porn, 99% of porn, fakes a female's climax & only shows penetration as sex when 75% of women don't come from that.
RollingLeaf22 4 months ago
@RollingLeaf22 Instead of censoring porn, how bout we teach people about respect, and separating fantasy and reality, entertainment and real life situations, and teaching healthy sexuality. But its not for us to put our hand in a work of someone else's like porn or other media. And people will be turned on by what they will, its natural.
ONIProductionsLtd 4 months ago
@ONIProductionsLtd Porn's a combined source of entertainment &yes, education for young people, the sexism in most of the porn - watch this whore suck my dick, etc. - is 1. Disgusting. 2. Degradation is a sexual niche. Porn that is sexist makes all porn degradation porn & normalizes sexist attitudes 3. Is not the way women get turned on & climax. Period. It would be like if women watched porn where men had screaming orgasms from having their balls tickled & were called slut. Every time.
RollingLeaf22 4 months ago
@RollingLeaf22 I am a male, I saw porn long before I had sex, as young as twelve, and I knew it was very unrealistic. My first time was very unlike porn, and it did NOT make me a sexist pig. I am VERY respectful of women and hate that kind of dirty talk in porn never mind in person. Not all people are brainwashed by porn if they acknowledge it is not a depiction of the real act. Yes, some weaker minds are turned into pigs but that was true LONG before pornographic video.
ONIProductionsLtd 4 months ago
@ONIProductionsLtd That's awesome. I am not suggesting a porn censorship, I think in you & I are on the same page in most respects. I'm suggesting it be called out as a fantasy & have a conversation about the different kinds of porn out there. Teaching, discussing, listening - I'm w/ you. I'm 100% uncomfortable with every naked woman on the internet being called a bitch. It's fucked the fuck up. I'm suggesting a discussion & speaking the truth.
RollingLeaf22 4 months ago
@RollingLeaf22 Im glad we can agree and discuss like this, (why I love the internet) and only wish discussions like this could be wider. As a communications major I talk a lot about media and think everyone should since its such a big part of life. Porn included. If people could grow up and maturely talk about such subject matter we could educate people. People are so uneducated artistic nudes are even looked at the wrong way. How did things get this messed up? People not wanting to talk bout it
ONIProductionsLtd 4 months ago
@ONIProductionsLtd Yep, exactamundo. There's nothing wrong with sex. It's respect & the golden rule that, when unfollowed, gets shit twisted! Good luck with school. Keep talking!
RollingLeaf22 4 months ago
du fuqk? upload part 1 and if necessary part 3 you idiotic fuck
shooker244 5 months ago
Women are not objects, they are beautiful, complex and amazing creatures that deserve respect and love.
I watch porn.
hknuddv 5 months ago 32
@hknuddv
but can't objects be beautiful, complex, and amazing?
can't creatures be objects?
I think that you have fallen into the trap of the false dichotomy, just as these feminists would want you to.
St37One 5 months ago
@hknuddv right on!
4resi2tence0 5 months ago
@hknuddv exactly. thank you.
belladonna4577 5 months ago
@hknuddv that's exactly why they are so sexy...
fndalves 5 months ago in playlist Bullshit
@hknuddv that doesnt mean we cant jack off to them
cwood4ever 5 months ago
@hknuddv And that, my friend, is the right attitude to have!
RollingLeaf22 5 months ago
@hknuddv Women in a lot of respects are better then men cus they can make men go to war over them*cough* hellen of troy *cough*
Dracofangstudios 4 months ago
@hknuddv
Not necessarily beautiful, or complex, or that amazing. Sometimes all three, but not always.
NorthCitySider 3 months ago
@hknuddv well, this woman is not.
Sivels 3 months ago
I'm not going to say specifically that porn fortifies rape, but it is potentially very addictive and it DOES influence your thoughts. Sociologically speaking, it probably slows down rape mainly because their seem more and more women that do this for a living, this is the society we're becoming. Not trying to say that it's a good or bad thing, but it can have a negative impact on a lot of people, and certainly can impact the structure of a strong country, at least one that has values against it.
jamesdragonforce 5 months ago
ahahahahaha his explanation for shaving genitalia is the best, ahahaha I love this show
Hematemesis 5 months ago
if a woman screams "FUCK ME!" then thats not rape
daboodeef179 6 months ago
Damnit, I was kind of hoping for some porn.......
SHiTJuFro743 6 months ago
@SHiTJuFro743 well there are plenty of sites for that.....
TheAlexagius 5 months ago
so men aren't allowed to enjoy porn.
and women aren't allowed to make their own decisions, such as the decision to make a porn movie.
the feminist movement is really just an anti-people movement that wants to eliminate people's choices and freedom, isn't it? if we actually listened to feminists, we would be like 18th century presbyterians, and all sex would be hetereosexual vaginal intercourse in the missionary position for the sole purpose of procreation.
33LB 6 months ago
People forget that the early feminist movement supported porn, what with the idea that women should be free to do what they want with their own bodies, an idea that seems to have been done away with. There are female porn directors. People should do what they want, as long as no one is being hurt or exploited or forced. Fuck these ladies. They don't know what they are talking about.
rhinocore 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
women are whores by nature :))
ArianeQube 6 months ago
the man is as much as an object as the women in a porno..
darkhensla 6 months ago 3
I'm a woman, I don't watch porn, but I understand it. I "get it" why men and women find it tantalizing and I see nothing wrong with it. I don't get the hoopla, what's the problem? I still stick by the: "if you don't like it, don't watch it" deal. No need to be angry. Objectifying women doesn't have to be negative. I think some women take it too personal and internalize it and assume it reflects on their lack of qualities somehow. That's not how it works. Genuinely, I don't see the problem.
Merrida100 6 months ago 3
@Merrida100
this
lancekatre 6 months ago
@lancekatre What?
Merrida100 6 months ago
@lancekatre I still don't follow. What exactly is the "this" you refer to as being the problem? That Penn and Teller might show how men and women view it differently? Or is that you like the idea of women being ignorant of (a) women in porn choose to be there and (b) men can differentiate between women as human beings, and women choosing to showcase their physicality through by concensing to be involved in porn?
Merrida100 6 months ago
This is exactly like the war on video games. If the people watching the porn can't tell the difference between fake and real, and try to apply it to real life, all the other adult needs to do if they don't want to is say "no". if that doesn't work, fight back or call the cops, cause it'd be rape. just because porn gives someone an idea doesn't mean it's the porn that forces them to do anything. I have yet to see porn that says "Try this at home, even if your partner doesn't want to! It's ok!"
CocoMunky 6 months ago
I watch porn, but I don't view women as objects, or any less, because of it.
DeadFishFactory 6 months ago 11
@DeadFishFactory
how do you know that?
St37One 6 months ago
@St37One If you can't tell if you view people as objects or not, you have issues. Having feelings or empathy for someone is a pretty clear sign that you don't view them as an object.
CocoMunky 6 months ago
@CocoMunky
lots of people have all kinds of emotional investment in objects
lancekatre 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@St37One Because you wanna watch it.
GilesHellier 6 months ago
@St37One what kind of question is that?
how he knows that he doesnt view women as objects?
colony665 6 months ago
@DeadFishFactory I do. I think they should wash clothes and cook my dinner.. worthless for anything else... besides sex of course.
MrImmabanana 6 months ago
@DeadFishFactory most women have been lied and abused by the time they make it on camera. And even those who don't, have permanent psychological wounds from it. Plus, men who watch porn have no idea of how to please a woman, they learn/get used to things that have nothing to do with what good real sex is.
laubowiebass 6 months ago
Porn that is humans killing each other with guns bombs grenades it is realy degrading and it is dehumanising and traumatic for children. Nevertheless it is big business and therfore justified by the people who know each other but do not kill each other but they order people who do not know each other kill each other. War is the real pornographic business in the world.
nabuco00 6 months ago
@nabuco00 things humanity has done since they have exsisted
have sex, do drugs, eat, sleep, kill each other.
nothing has really changed just more people trying to control that stuff
mrfrosty8172 6 months ago
@mrfrosty8172
What i wanted to clarify is that porn is treated like a real bad thing while war is accepted and tolerated by the people who have trouble with porn.
nabuco00 6 months ago
@nabuco00 exactly!
i dont understand why abortion is bad - kills 1
while jerkin it is ok - kills thousands
...wait mabye thats why they hate porn lol
mrfrosty8172 6 months ago
@mrfrosty8172
The anti abortionists are very considdered with the early unborn life after birth they realy don't give a shit about it.
nabuco00 6 months ago 3
Porn in the poorer countries is big business and is in turn linked to prostitution. This destroys lives. Those involved in the industry are often the losers. Adults watching adults having sex is not a bad thing but that is not the whole story.
amemy1 6 months ago