Trotsky and Lenin were two adept and steadfast Jews guised in Russian heritage. I will rejoice the day the Israeli empire is complete to wipe away the unfit of this world, they shall rule their communistic empire with a subtle and deceptive hand moving the masses (increasing in number as the lower I.Q. races such as the blacks) to be their orcs while they rule from their Ivory Towers in New York, Tel Aviv, and London, basking in all of their and their ancestors glory. The day will come.
Only a REAL FOOL would claim there is no God! Man creates awesome skyscrapers, fake hearts, tunnels, vehicles etc.. If we are very imperfect then what more can God create THE UNIVERSE! You must accept Jesus Christ as your Savior to receive eternal rest in heaven! Simple! John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! Repent & accept Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ or HELL?!? Visit cbn. com
More BBC Communist propaganda. Thank god the Cultural Marxist Hitchens is now dead and his subversive agenda to destroy democratic capitalist culture and freedom is over.
There will be always these guys in every generation. Important question is do we suppressed them early on effectively before millions get seriously hurt or do we let things go as far as they did in Germany and Russia. Freedom of speech is a privilege. Anyone who uses it to incite violence and murder should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. We all of course have freedom of though but no rational person could think violence as a solution to worlds problems.
these guys are as bad as a lickspittles to a retarddumber and light in the head..quote trotsky
"We should turn Her (Russia) into a desert populated with white Niggers. We will impose upon them such a tyranny that was never dreamt by the most hideous despots of the East. The peculiar trait of that tyranny is that it will be enacted from the left rather than the right and it will be red rather than white in color.
You should neither trust nor depend on other telling you about Trotsky (or anyone else for that matter). Just look for his works and read them yourself.
@NATIONALCOMMUNISM666 they were just common degenerates,murdsers noithing good intended plunder and power was their aimnuttin good of them Not one thoing they were a plague on russia a jew plague
Really. I thought it was the russian peasants who "did" most of the deeds while these hehehe "intellectuals" hid behind them. Bronstein had few peasants and sailors support him. That was his secret. Too bad the idiot drunken useless russian sailors found out too late what communism was all about.
I not sure what the jew did if they they did any thing...
I'm say though out history the jew do what they have to do...
trosky farther told him what is good for the jew is good what is bad for the jew is bad...
If you don't like jew you should be happy there time in the sun is coming to an end is there pride take over an they forget there suffering the same as german english an roman...
Also I should say my reason for be so upfront an say white pride was not in it self to be racist it was A way of pushing the Ideal the white race time running the planet is over....
Every group of white have got there chance to run the show anglo saxion germanic an ofcourse persianic have greek an rome an now the jew finnaly had therre chance at domination...
The only group that doe's not get A fiar chance as alway is the celtic Irish.
@HispanicIsNotARace1 I understand what you're saying, but even what is often referred to as anarcho-capitalism, is effectively a state, however, states by contract rather than by geographic borders. If you can think of a way that a stateless society could exist, I'm all ears, but having pondered the idea for years, I've come to the conclusion that states are inevitable, so the best you can do is set up a state that has built-in limits.
@redryan20000 No, I'm not an anarchist, I'm a libertarian. States are always tools of the powerful, yet they are also unavoidable regardless of whether anyone thinks them good/bad/legitimate or not. So, it's better to have a form of state that at least sort of represents the people, and to keep it to a minimum.
It is too bad that Robert Service's book has been throughly torn apart. It is full in inaccuracies and out of context quotes. Not the best source to discuss Trotsky.
Well, I definitely don't agree with Hitchens on politics - this seems to be an area he has not critically examined. The all powerful state has not ever led to well being for the masses. The more power the state has, the more concentrated wealth becomes, and the fewer liberties afforded to everyone, rich and poor alike, although ...fewer yet for the poor of course. Marxism is a classic example of such failure. Trotsky!? Richard, is that really the best you can come up with?
@ooohpie Hitchens is massively left wing. He hates religion above all else so it's not surprising he is pro war in the middle east. He has often called for kissingers arrest due to his war crimes.
The American Historical Review's verdict of the book was damning:
"A book that fails to meet the basic standards of historical scholarship."
"Service fails to examine in a serious way Trotsky's political ideas in his writings and speeches - nor does it appear that he has always bothered to familiarize himself with them."
"Service relies on cheap shots and slanderous asides to keep his readers convinced that Trotsky is a despicable man."
@Graham6762 Nobody needs to produce evidence that the Protocols were a fraud. You need to produce evidence that they were not a fraud, And so far, you haven't.
@electangorocks That is retarded, how do you prove a negative? Have you even read it? It seems authentic to me and it doesn't read like a forgery. A forgery implies that there is another real book named the Protocols of the learned Elders of Zion.
@Graham6762 I don't waste my time on fiction. I prefer non-fiction. Still, there's plenty of evidence the Protocols are fabricated and I've provided it for you. You're the one dodging.
Graham, you didn't even read my link. I'm hurt. The real book is called 'The Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu', whose core names and terms were changed and the document re-purposed to smear Jews.
Topics: WINNING ARGUMENTS NOW ADDED For The Creationism-Evolutionism Debate (See Subchapter 10.2.2.), The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
Websites: balanceddiet1.yolasite.com
See Figure 4, which is THE MEANING OF THE PYRAMID, at figure4etc.yolasite.com
See Announcements at announcements-balancedway.weebly.com
I've read Trotsky, Lenin and Marx. Marxism's problem is it postulates a minority to act on the behalf of majority who can't vote them out. This minority is supposed to be smarter than the rest and know better. This sounds a lot like capitalism with a class or group of people deciding what is in society's best interest based on their own best interests and not society's. While the Soviet Union actually was a paradise for Stalin it certainly wasn't for everyone else.
@perdondaris Thats only a problem for Marxist-Leninists and there concept of vanguardism (Bolshevism). Marx himself wrote about the proletariat (the majority) taking political power from the bourgeoise (the ruling minority) and there are Marxist movements who's aims are that of a direct transition of that transfer of power (Council Communists etc.).
@almanacofsleep I agree, but Marx said many things about a "democratic-dictatorship" and limiting the working class to the proletariat. I believe everyone whose work is productive to society has to be represented in society--doctors, architects, scientists too. As an anarchist I understand that a majority can be tyrannical also. If everyone is not represented in society there can be no true freedom. As a syndicalist I also believe unskilled labor is just as important as skilled labor.
It was then that Lenin changed did a U-turn from 'What is To Be Done', embraced libetarian socialism, and wrote 'State and Revolution.' However following the ascension of the Bolsheviks to power in October they repressed the workers control of production and forced Bureaucratic managers from the party onto the factories. The counter-revolution was not in the removal of the PG but in the reversal of the workers gains, and ultimately the suppression of Soviet democracy. This was the Rev Betrayed
I fail to see how you can term October a counter-revolution. Without mass popular support in Petrograd and Moscow they would not have been able to triumph. The fact is that the Bolsheviks program attracted wide layers of discontented workers and soldiers who were sick of the war and the lies of the Provisional Government. When you had a situation of dual power, where the PG could not move without the Soviets, the situation was at an impasse. Half a revolution is the most temporary of situations.
@JoshuaCromarty Following the February revolution Factory, Shop Committees and Workers’ Councils had appeared in every main industrial centre in European Russia. They were aware of the proletariats need to control production and defied the Bourgeoisie government and employer's attempts to buy them off with wage increases. This was in direct contrast to Lenin's remarks in 'What is To Be Done' which said that the workers could only ever achieve 'trade union consciousness'.
Marx was also no anarchist and realised early the extreme bourgeois idealism represented in these ideas.He counterposed to this the dictatorship of the proletariat. Read the polemical debates between him and Bakunin.
I don't think the insurrectionists at Kronstadt were murdered for disagreement with any particular leader but because their actions ENDANGERED the REVOLUTION. To lose tens of thousands to win a civil war only to lose because some rebels seize the main defence of Petrograd?
@JoshuaCromarty The Bolshevik counter-revolution is epitomised in the events of Kronstadt in 1921. It was the Bolsheviks lead by Lenin and Trotsky who not only ENDANGERED the REVOLUTION but HALTED it through the supression of workplace democracy that had spontanously sprouted in European Russia following the February revolution. You are correct that Marx was no anarchist however he strongly believed in direct democracy as is evident from his writings on the Paris Commune.
@CosmosLoyal hey called for "all power to the Soviets" while the bourgeois government led by Kerensky was continuing the imperialist war in the West, arresting Bolshevik workers and giving ground to General Kornilov. If he had been successful in his push to enter Petrograd, the workers would have been massacred and we would have a Russian word for fascism instead of an Italian one. I'm not defending every decision Lenin and Trotsky ever took in CIVIL WAR, but I defend their revolutionary ideas.
Kerensky refused to surrender one parcel of Russian/baltics land to Germany, While Lenin gladly handed his imperialist benefactors in Berlin the Ukraine and the Baltic countries in return for helping to get him and the party into power. Kerensky was forced into keeping the war going simply because they threatened to cut off foreign aid shipments and at the same time promised to assist Russia in rebuilding after the war's conclusion.
To all supporters of Trotsky and his demented form of Marxism*, I simply say one thing... Kronstadt. He was as brutal as Stalin and Lenin, he just never had the wits to slither his way into office like Uncle Joe
*The writings of the great Marx have been long twisted and misinterpreted by the communists who professed allegiance to him. Marx hated statism, liked capitalism and praised it for destroying the feudal serfdom of medieval Europe
@Joshua- According to Trotsky, it was a massive change in personnel during the years 1917-1921 which had depopulated the Kronsdadt island of its proud revolutionary heritage. However, by examining the documentary evidence Israel Getzler in 'Kronstadt 1917-1921: The Fate of a Soviet Democracy' was to find that in the crews of the two major battleships - which were known for their revolutionary zeal since 1917 - that some 93.9% were recruited into the navy before and during the 1917 revolution.
The American Historical Review, among the oldest and most prestigious academic journals in the United States, has condemned Service’s biography of Trotsky, saying that it "fails to meet the basic standards of historical scholarship". The review has explicitly endorsed the critique of Service's book by David North, the chairman of both the Socialist Equality Party in the United States and the international editorial board of the World Socialist Web Site.
If I could get in a time machine and kill one person from history, trotsky would be second (Muhammad would be first) simply for being the asshole to coin that played-the-fuck-out term "racism."
Because they are saying Trotsky's real name doesn't have the same ring to it as Leon Trotsky, a bit like Bob Dylan's real name is Robert Zimmerman, which also doesn't have quite the same impact. I'm paraphrasing, but you get the picture.
@R2rGangstaFC it would be easy for me to fuck someone's life up. i could not fuck up as many lives as communism has though, even if i lived for a thousand years. is that your idea of acheivement? of fame? you are an idiot and an asshole.
@KrisdashPaul you are clearly ignorant of russian history, and I dont blame you for it. I blame you for being arrogant about it and calling me names because of that. I never said that killing people was an achievment. But perhabs if you did your homework, you would know that all social revolutions were followed with significant amount of bloodshed of the innocent. To deny that would be naive and dishonest.
@R2rGangstaFC like the divorce of czechoslovakia? like the fall of the berlin wall? you will find the latter case was the END of the deaths and misery, not the beginning.
@ickythumpy Original? It's not enough to call a spade a spade?
I'm not here to insult the man , I just think his beleaguered defence of Trotsky is a pretty facile attempt tto reach back for some idealism he had in his youth but has completely abandoned for what I suppose he would call 'realism' or somesuch in becoming an open defender of US state imperialism.
@JoshuaCromarty Wow, we have idiots on here thinking that saving thousands upon thousands of people being slaughtered in the BALKANS, which are a stunning success story on the use of American power.
Robert Service and other leading British academics have launched a campaign of historical falsification, slandering Trotsky, and denying his historical significance. The purpose of the campaign is to prevent young people coming into political struggle from learning about Trotsky's political legacy. David North of the World Socialist Website has written a number of essays in defence of Trotsky - see "Political biography and the historical lie: An examination of Robert Service’s Trotsky" on wsws
@ickythumpy One of the few people alive today for whom all decent people, regardless of ideology, must grant at the very least a grudging respect. His integrity cannot reasonably be questioned, whether one agrees with his views or not.
Thank you for posting this. I have just read Hitch 22 where Christopher HItchens talk a lot of his International Socialist days and am glad to hear him speak more about Trotsky.
Trotsky and Lenin were two adept and steadfast Jews guised in Russian heritage. I will rejoice the day the Israeli empire is complete to wipe away the unfit of this world, they shall rule their communistic empire with a subtle and deceptive hand moving the masses (increasing in number as the lower I.Q. races such as the blacks) to be their orcs while they rule from their Ivory Towers in New York, Tel Aviv, and London, basking in all of their and their ancestors glory. The day will come.
BreakerOfBoxes 3 days ago
@BreakerOfBoxes cool story, bro
Rhydiculous34 1 day ago
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Only a REAL FOOL would claim there is no God! Man creates awesome skyscrapers, fake hearts, tunnels, vehicles etc.. If we are very imperfect then what more can God create THE UNIVERSE! You must accept Jesus Christ as your Savior to receive eternal rest in heaven! Simple! John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! Repent & accept Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ or HELL?!? Visit cbn. com
tigersforchrist 4 days ago
That is some awesome hair.
Logarithmify 2 weeks ago
0:05 Soviet Harry Potter.
MultiUniv3rsal 3 weeks ago
More BBC Communist propaganda. Thank god the Cultural Marxist Hitchens is now dead and his subversive agenda to destroy democratic capitalist culture and freedom is over.
arcanus121 3 weeks ago
@arcanus121
There will be always these guys in every generation. Important question is do we suppressed them early on effectively before millions get seriously hurt or do we let things go as far as they did in Germany and Russia. Freedom of speech is a privilege. Anyone who uses it to incite violence and murder should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. We all of course have freedom of though but no rational person could think violence as a solution to worlds problems.
BENNYSIEGEL90 3 weeks ago
these guys are as bad as a lickspittles to a retarddumber and light in the head..quote trotsky
"We should turn Her (Russia) into a desert populated with white Niggers. We will impose upon them such a tyranny that was never dreamt by the most hideous despots of the East. The peculiar trait of that tyranny is that it will be enacted from the left rather than the right and it will be red rather than white in color.
xtiml 1 month ago
Trotsky was Lenin's right hand man, personally responsible for the edicts handed down to
the secret police (chekists) and the killing of over 4 million men, women and children. Long
before Stalin came on the scene, Trotsky supported the killing of all political opponents of
the regime - including campaigners for a western democratic system, free trade unions and
the release of worker-revolutionary prisoners from the Gulags (Israel Getzler. Kronstadt
1917-1921: The Fate of a Soviet Democracy)
fatty099 1 month ago
You should neither trust nor depend on other telling you about Trotsky (or anyone else for that matter). Just look for his works and read them yourself.
cemalson 1 month ago
I like Marx an Lenin but Know very litle About Trosky can Any One help me understand him atleast A Litle better I hear bad Thing About him?
NATIONALCOMMUNISM666 1 month ago
@NATIONALCOMMUNISM666 they were just common degenerates,murdsers noithing good intended plunder and power was their aimnuttin good of them Not one thoing they were a plague on russia a jew plague
xtiml 1 month ago
@xtiml
the jew do what they have to do that is all relly...
orther pepole should Learn form them or go Extinct...
Respect the jew...
14/88
Peace 666
NATIONALCOMMUNISM666 1 month ago
@NATIONALCOMMUNISM666
Really. I thought it was the russian peasants who "did" most of the deeds while these hehehe "intellectuals" hid behind them. Bronstein had few peasants and sailors support him. That was his secret. Too bad the idiot drunken useless russian sailors found out too late what communism was all about.
BENNYSIEGEL90 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
NATIONALCOMMUNISM666 3 weeks ago
@BENNYSIEGEL90
I not sure what the jew did if they they did any thing...
I'm say though out history the jew do what they have to do...
trosky farther told him what is good for the jew is good what is bad for the jew is bad...
If you don't like jew you should be happy there time in the sun is coming to an end is there pride take over an they forget there suffering the same as german english an roman...
I Afraid china time is now.
Peace 666
NATIONALCOMMUNISM666 3 weeks ago
@BENNYSIEGEL90
White Pride.
NATIONALCOMMUNISM666 3 weeks ago
@NATIONALCOMMUNISM666
Also I should say my reason for be so upfront an say white pride was not in it self to be racist it was A way of pushing the Ideal the white race time running the planet is over....
Every group of white have got there chance to run the show anglo saxion germanic an ofcourse persianic have greek an rome an now the jew finnaly had therre chance at domination...
The only group that doe's not get A fiar chance as alway is the celtic Irish.
Peace 777
NATIONALCOMMUNISM666 3 weeks ago
Argh! He called him "Chris"!!
babyshambler 2 months ago
At first I thought you were trying to slip in a pic of Bob Dylan to see if we were paying attention then I heard the reference ^_^
ascetica0 3 months ago
@HispanicIsNotARace1 ...also, not all anarchists are libertarians, and certainly the converse is not generally true.
eventhisidistaken 3 months ago 2
@HispanicIsNotARace1 I understand what you're saying, but even what is often referred to as anarcho-capitalism, is effectively a state, however, states by contract rather than by geographic borders. If you can think of a way that a stateless society could exist, I'm all ears, but having pondered the idea for years, I've come to the conclusion that states are inevitable, so the best you can do is set up a state that has built-in limits.
eventhisidistaken 3 months ago
@redryan20000 No, I'm not an anarchist, I'm a libertarian. States are always tools of the powerful, yet they are also unavoidable regardless of whether anyone thinks them good/bad/legitimate or not. So, it's better to have a form of state that at least sort of represents the people, and to keep it to a minimum.
eventhisidistaken 3 months ago
@eventhisidistaken: All Anarchist are libertarians. I find the proposition that states are unavoidable to be false.
HispanicIsNotARace1 3 months ago
It is too bad that Robert Service's book has been throughly torn apart. It is full in inaccuracies and out of context quotes. Not the best source to discuss Trotsky.
unsung1984 3 months ago
Oh wow, he was actually pretty fit.
prettythings89 4 months ago
...oops, meant 'Christopher', not 'Richard'....was glancing at a teaser for Dawkins on the right as I was typing.
eventhisidistaken 4 months ago
Well, I definitely don't agree with Hitchens on politics - this seems to be an area he has not critically examined. The all powerful state has not ever led to well being for the masses. The more power the state has, the more concentrated wealth becomes, and the fewer liberties afforded to everyone, rich and poor alike, although ...fewer yet for the poor of course. Marxism is a classic example of such failure. Trotsky!? Richard, is that really the best you can come up with?
eventhisidistaken 4 months ago
@eventhisidistaken are you an anarchist by any chance?
redryan20000 3 months ago
I can't believe a man who I would consider a genius is a Trot! I've now lost some respect for Hitchens.
ooohpie 4 months ago
@ooohpie Hitchens is massively left wing. He hates religion above all else so it's not surprising he is pro war in the middle east. He has often called for kissingers arrest due to his war crimes.
krevice 4 months ago
Avoid Robert Service's book on LT.
The American Historical Review's verdict of the book was damning:
"A book that fails to meet the basic standards of historical scholarship."
"Service fails to examine in a serious way Trotsky's political ideas in his writings and speeches - nor does it appear that he has always bothered to familiarize himself with them."
"Service relies on cheap shots and slanderous asides to keep his readers convinced that Trotsky is a despicable man."
'Nuff said?
TerrySleeper 4 months ago
Do you have your own opinions or do you require the those of others to validate your belief?
Bastiat90 2 months ago
Comment removed
GodFree27 4 months ago
I've never seen any evidence that the Elders of Zion was a fraud.
Graham6762 5 months ago
Comment removed
thesoundofbrown 4 months ago
@Graham6762 Try this for a start: skeptoid.com/episodes/4271
thesoundofbrown 4 months ago
@Graham6762 Nobody needs to produce evidence that the Protocols were a fraud. You need to produce evidence that they were not a fraud, And so far, you haven't.
electangorocks 4 months ago
@electangorocks That is retarded, how do you prove a negative? Have you even read it? It seems authentic to me and it doesn't read like a forgery. A forgery implies that there is another real book named the Protocols of the learned Elders of Zion.
Graham6762 4 months ago
@Graham6762 Well, you do a little research. Google the words, "protocols, Elders of Zion, and fraud," for instance.
electangorocks 4 months ago
@electangorocks Have you even read it? I doubt you have judging by how you are dodging the question.
Graham6762 4 months ago
@Graham6762 I don't waste my time on fiction. I prefer non-fiction. Still, there's plenty of evidence the Protocols are fabricated and I've provided it for you. You're the one dodging.
electangorocks 4 months ago
Graham, you didn't even read my link. I'm hurt. The real book is called 'The Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu', whose core names and terms were changed and the document re-purposed to smear Jews.
thesoundofbrown 4 months ago
When was this show produced?
believerster 5 months ago
Comment removed
Mishkafofer 6 months ago
Lev Davidocivh Bronhstein.....
blessedbe9 6 months ago
The interviewer's attempt to sound like an intellectual is getting on my nerves. Especially with that moronic excessive British accent.
darkillity 6 months ago
@darkillity
Don't let it irritate you.
ExtremeBogom 5 months ago
@ExtremeBogom moron....
darkillity 5 months ago
@darkillity
You're welcome.
ExtremeBogom 5 months ago
who exactly cares what churchill has to say about anyone?...
patient0Studios 6 months ago
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NEW BOOK (DONATED) FOR DEBATES AND GOVERNANCE
Topics: WINNING ARGUMENTS NOW ADDED For The Creationism-Evolutionism Debate (See Subchapter 10.2.2.), The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
Websites: balanceddiet1.yolasite.com
See Figure 4, which is THE MEANING OF THE PYRAMID, at figure4etc.yolasite.com
See Announcements at announcements-balancedway.weebly.com
etc.
TheServiceWeb 6 months ago
I've read Trotsky, Lenin and Marx. Marxism's problem is it postulates a minority to act on the behalf of majority who can't vote them out. This minority is supposed to be smarter than the rest and know better. This sounds a lot like capitalism with a class or group of people deciding what is in society's best interest based on their own best interests and not society's. While the Soviet Union actually was a paradise for Stalin it certainly wasn't for everyone else.
perdondaris 7 months ago
@perdondaris Thats only a problem for Marxist-Leninists and there concept of vanguardism (Bolshevism). Marx himself wrote about the proletariat (the majority) taking political power from the bourgeoise (the ruling minority) and there are Marxist movements who's aims are that of a direct transition of that transfer of power (Council Communists etc.).
almanacofsleep 7 months ago
@almanacofsleep I agree, but Marx said many things about a "democratic-dictatorship" and limiting the working class to the proletariat. I believe everyone whose work is productive to society has to be represented in society--doctors, architects, scientists too. As an anarchist I understand that a majority can be tyrannical also. If everyone is not represented in society there can be no true freedom. As a syndicalist I also believe unskilled labor is just as important as skilled labor.
perdondaris 6 months ago
I don't want to be disrespectful but Trotsky sounds like Doctor Scratchandschniff from the animaniacs.
georgekostaras 7 months ago
Morpheus has Trotsky's glasses(*=
rabbifilms 7 months ago
It was then that Lenin changed did a U-turn from 'What is To Be Done', embraced libetarian socialism, and wrote 'State and Revolution.' However following the ascension of the Bolsheviks to power in October they repressed the workers control of production and forced Bureaucratic managers from the party onto the factories. The counter-revolution was not in the removal of the PG but in the reversal of the workers gains, and ultimately the suppression of Soviet democracy. This was the Rev Betrayed
CosmosLoyal 7 months ago 6
I fail to see how you can term October a counter-revolution. Without mass popular support in Petrograd and Moscow they would not have been able to triumph. The fact is that the Bolsheviks program attracted wide layers of discontented workers and soldiers who were sick of the war and the lies of the Provisional Government. When you had a situation of dual power, where the PG could not move without the Soviets, the situation was at an impasse. Half a revolution is the most temporary of situations.
JoshuaCromarty 7 months ago
@JoshuaCromarty Following the February revolution Factory, Shop Committees and Workers’ Councils had appeared in every main industrial centre in European Russia. They were aware of the proletariats need to control production and defied the Bourgeoisie government and employer's attempts to buy them off with wage increases. This was in direct contrast to Lenin's remarks in 'What is To Be Done' which said that the workers could only ever achieve 'trade union consciousness'.
CosmosLoyal 7 months ago
Marx was also no anarchist and realised early the extreme bourgeois idealism represented in these ideas.He counterposed to this the dictatorship of the proletariat. Read the polemical debates between him and Bakunin.
I don't think the insurrectionists at Kronstadt were murdered for disagreement with any particular leader but because their actions ENDANGERED the REVOLUTION. To lose tens of thousands to win a civil war only to lose because some rebels seize the main defence of Petrograd?
JoshuaCromarty 7 months ago
@JoshuaCromarty The Bolshevik counter-revolution is epitomised in the events of Kronstadt in 1921. It was the Bolsheviks lead by Lenin and Trotsky who not only ENDANGERED the REVOLUTION but HALTED it through the supression of workplace democracy that had spontanously sprouted in European Russia following the February revolution. You are correct that Marx was no anarchist however he strongly believed in direct democracy as is evident from his writings on the Paris Commune.
CosmosLoyal 7 months ago
@CosmosLoyal hey called for "all power to the Soviets" while the bourgeois government led by Kerensky was continuing the imperialist war in the West, arresting Bolshevik workers and giving ground to General Kornilov. If he had been successful in his push to enter Petrograd, the workers would have been massacred and we would have a Russian word for fascism instead of an Italian one. I'm not defending every decision Lenin and Trotsky ever took in CIVIL WAR, but I defend their revolutionary ideas.
JoshuaCromarty 7 months ago
@JoshuaCromarty
Kerensky refused to surrender one parcel of Russian/baltics land to Germany, While Lenin gladly handed his imperialist benefactors in Berlin the Ukraine and the Baltic countries in return for helping to get him and the party into power. Kerensky was forced into keeping the war going simply because they threatened to cut off foreign aid shipments and at the same time promised to assist Russia in rebuilding after the war's conclusion.
Russia entered ww1 in defense of Yugoslavia
Obasiliasfilosofos 6 months ago
To all supporters of Trotsky and his demented form of Marxism*, I simply say one thing... Kronstadt. He was as brutal as Stalin and Lenin, he just never had the wits to slither his way into office like Uncle Joe
*The writings of the great Marx have been long twisted and misinterpreted by the communists who professed allegiance to him. Marx hated statism, liked capitalism and praised it for destroying the feudal serfdom of medieval Europe
Hamilcar275 8 months ago
@Hamilcar275 Why don't you start by reading what Trotsky himsel had to say about it? search for "Hue and cry over Kronstadt"
JoshuaCromarty 8 months ago
Are you excusing the deliberate murder of communist apostates? Do you think Trotsky was right to murder them because they disagreed with him?
Hamilcar275 8 months ago
@Joshua- According to Trotsky, it was a massive change in personnel during the years 1917-1921 which had depopulated the Kronsdadt island of its proud revolutionary heritage. However, by examining the documentary evidence Israel Getzler in 'Kronstadt 1917-1921: The Fate of a Soviet Democracy' was to find that in the crews of the two major battleships - which were known for their revolutionary zeal since 1917 - that some 93.9% were recruited into the navy before and during the 1917 revolution.
CosmosLoyal 7 months ago
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The American Historical Review, among the oldest and most prestigious academic journals in the United States, has condemned Service’s biography of Trotsky, saying that it "fails to meet the basic standards of historical scholarship". The review has explicitly endorsed the critique of Service's book by David North, the chairman of both the Socialist Equality Party in the United States and the international editorial board of the World Socialist Web Site.
robharris38 8 months ago
If I could get in a time machine and kill one person from history, trotsky would be second (Muhammad would be first) simply for being the asshole to coin that played-the-fuck-out term "racism."
oldstock1607 8 months ago
What's up with the Bob Dylan shot at the end?
dreamingWisdom 8 months ago
@dreamingWisdom
Because they are saying Trotsky's real name doesn't have the same ring to it as Leon Trotsky, a bit like Bob Dylan's real name is Robert Zimmerman, which also doesn't have quite the same impact. I'm paraphrasing, but you get the picture.
nick260682 8 months ago
i am gonna take more convincing than this to believe that this man, who created communism, isn't a cunt.
KrisdashPaul 9 months ago
@KrisdashPaul perhabs you could try to create sth on your own, before calling one of the architects of 1917 a cunt
R2rGangstaFC 9 months ago
@R2rGangstaFC it would be easy for me to fuck someone's life up. i could not fuck up as many lives as communism has though, even if i lived for a thousand years. is that your idea of acheivement? of fame? you are an idiot and an asshole.
KrisdashPaul 9 months ago
@KrisdashPaul you are clearly ignorant of russian history, and I dont blame you for it. I blame you for being arrogant about it and calling me names because of that. I never said that killing people was an achievment. But perhabs if you did your homework, you would know that all social revolutions were followed with significant amount of bloodshed of the innocent. To deny that would be naive and dishonest.
R2rGangstaFC 9 months ago
@R2rGangstaFC like the divorce of czechoslovakia? like the fall of the berlin wall? you will find the latter case was the END of the deaths and misery, not the beginning.
KrisdashPaul 9 months ago
can anyone enlighten me on the specifics on Hitchens' attack of the queen mother? is it just the dislike of monarchy or anything personal?
MrPootisman 11 months ago
@ickythumpy Original? It's not enough to call a spade a spade?
I'm not here to insult the man , I just think his beleaguered defence of Trotsky is a pretty facile attempt tto reach back for some idealism he had in his youth but has completely abandoned for what I suppose he would call 'realism' or somesuch in becoming an open defender of US state imperialism.
www1.wsws.org/articles/2002/oct2002/hitc-o07.shtml
read what real Trotskyists have to say on the man.
JoshuaCromarty 1 year ago
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JoshuaCromarty 1 year ago
@JoshuaCromarty Wow, we have idiots on here thinking that saving thousands upon thousands of people being slaughtered in the BALKANS, which are a stunning success story on the use of American power.
jsampras3 7 months ago
Used to be a Trotskyist and now lauds US imperialist adventures in the Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq. He really is a neocon of the first degree.
JoshuaCromarty 1 year ago
@JoshuaCromarty neocons tend to be ex-trotskyist and cultural marxists. Another interesting aspect is that they are almost exclusively jews.
wertn09 8 months ago
never read about trotsky...this will change.
UtopiaMinor666 1 year ago
Wait, who sees Trotsky as a dangerous revolutionary anymore?
I thought we'd all settled on him being foremost Probably Better Than Stalin.
DeenMoriarty 1 year ago
@DeenMoriarty that's not exactly the strongest endorsement seeing as Stalin is one of the greatest monsters in modern history.
HamerD 1 year ago
Robert Service and other leading British academics have launched a campaign of historical falsification, slandering Trotsky, and denying his historical significance. The purpose of the campaign is to prevent young people coming into political struggle from learning about Trotsky's political legacy. David North of the World Socialist Website has written a number of essays in defence of Trotsky - see "Political biography and the historical lie: An examination of Robert Service’s Trotsky" on wsws
mattandersonWSWS 1 year ago
Thanks for the heads up, I'm reading the Service book at the minute I'll be sure to check out those essays
capitalistdownfall 1 year ago
@mattandersonWSWS isn't that about 70 years out of date?
DawnOfTheDead991 10 months ago
@LordSparkisvati I forgive his endorsement of Bush, just about.
ickythumpy 1 year ago 7
@ickythumpy I don't.
fidomusic 10 months ago
@ickythumpy One of the few people alive today for whom all decent people, regardless of ideology, must grant at the very least a grudging respect. His integrity cannot reasonably be questioned, whether one agrees with his views or not.
DrCruel 10 months ago
With my trust hitch by my side...
thegreatestbak3 1 year ago
I know it when I see it - The Hitch is my hero.
thegreatestbak3 1 year ago
Service's book on Trotsky is bloody awful.
If you are keen to read a great biog of LT try Isaac Deutscher's 3 volume masterpiece.
TerrySleeper 1 year ago
@TerrySleeper I've heard Service's book quotes some Stalin's myths as fact, true?
Drac39 1 year ago
great discussion. 5:29 is a pimp ass pic
bevocjohnson 1 year ago
Thank you for posting this. I have just read Hitch 22 where Christopher HItchens talk a lot of his International Socialist days and am glad to hear him speak more about Trotsky.
jamesthenabignumber 1 year ago
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magicpony9 1 year ago