Just a reminder to everyone, MechWarriors online hits at the end of Q2 this year! It's going to be on a F2P model with a territory control meta game similar to EVE, go over to mwo.mercs dot com and join us. This isn't an add, I'd just like to see the community grow a bit prior to launch.
One other point, heavy gears have a tremendous amount of active and passive stealth abilities which could permanently hide it from all but a mechwarrior's eyes but they run on diesel, gasoline, and I think but could easily be wrong: hydrogen V-Engine and thus has a limited operating range. A battlemech on the other hand runs on a fusion reactor and even though it produces a tremendous amount of heat, it can run for decades.
A few other points: Both of their weapons can do the same amount of damage, you heard me right. But battlemechs can carry more of those same weapons. Battlemechs can take more damage and are sturdier but heavy gears are far more faster and maneuverable and their weapons in most cases can hit farther than 1500 meters putting them outside of a mech's hardest hitting weapons. Once again tanks have more firepower and armour than an IFV but it can still take out a tank through speed and flexibility.
When it comes to which one is better. I say that comment does not make any sense. Battlemechs are lumbering tanks, Heavy Gears are swift IFVs (infantry fighting vehicles without APC characteristics). Both have unique roles that the other cannot accomplish as well and thus the question: "Which one is better" is stupid. A better question would be: "Which job can be accomplished better by which one?"
To annoyance hazard, The canon of Battletech (or Mechwarrior for the uninformed) shows Assualt mechs being misrepresented by the computer games. Also the Atlas's arms can bend pretty fast, so the torso twist comment was really stupid. I'm usually pretty tolorent of other people's views, but I really dislike it when the ignorant makes baseless comments.
@sinchocobo I agree because as you look in the mechwarrior series, the annihilator was one of the largest mechs in the game and it could turn it's torso faster than most mechs
For those who think radar will make advantage for heavy gears, mechwarrior have their comebacks. Radar jamming devices send a unsteady signal, which confuses the radar so it cannot transmitt the last message (via mechs location). So the the radar is sucessfully down while concealing the epicenter of the signal. With that said, mechwarrior mechs have anti missle systems. So anyone who thinks a sigle jet could take one out, is now un likely due to the mountable turret destroying airborne hostiles.
Mechwarrior mechs are not as big as you think either. In the mechwarrior 3 intro, the Thor (The tall mech with the round missle pack) is about 5 stories high, A person is a little bit less than half a story, so they are big, but they are not as tall as a WHOLE office building. If you were thinking as tall as a whole office building, you would be thinking something like the tripod from "War of the Worlds."
@JustComments90 The heavys/assaults are still giant and lumbering. I don't even know why assaults exist. They can barely move. I kind of hated that MW4:mercs. forced me to use them at the end of the game.
@AnnoyanceHazard the thor and madcat are actually fast, so is the highlander. The gladiator is another great choice too. (Although you have to install a mekpak to get the highlander).
Heavy Gears seem a bit unrealistic in a sense. Alot of power is required to move legs, but inserting a engine to match it would not fit. Mechwarrior uses fission reactors, concealed in heavy armor. And that energy is more than enough to power it's average functions. I do agree, The assualt mechs are an easy sight, but something like an Uziel will be diffcult because of it's agile movement and ability to equip anti-missle systems. It's PPC would be a knockout punch for a heavy gear.
@JustComments90 Both are pretty unrealistic and awesome. I mean really, an assault "running speed" can barely be called a crawl. Light mechs would just snipe it with gauss(or some other long range weapon) cannons a few km. away.
Gears are used as part of combined arms forces. Mech warriors work with mechs. Your typical heavy gear armoured division (6,000 troops, 1,250 Gears and 300 tanks) also has an air wing attached (60 strike craft) and Nor-Guard fielded 31 divisions in a single offense in the badlands. That's 40,000 gears. Plus landships.
In Heavy gear they have antimatter and nuclear weapons and aren't afraid to use them. In mechwarrior they dont know how to make them.
@MrXandarth in Battle Tech the mechs are not deployed with out some kind of support typically they are deployed with infantry/powered armor units, tanks, and aerospace fighters/ bombers. the exact numbers vary though depending on what faction your fighting, whether its inner sphere or clan, and just how badly they want to win the battle. but you tube's character limit really dose not give me the space to explain they way these forces are organized.
Atlas and a behemoth are a terrible combo for these little guys you would take an uller, a ryoken, a daishi widowmaker (for when the little guys got cute(Atlas has too easy a headshot...left eye)) and the fourth one is up in the air though as a light pilot i would take another uller. or better yet 2 ullers and 2 puma primes that would give u 4 ppcs and 2 ultra ac 5s with a bunch of missiles and lasers backing it up. you could take on like 30 of the wee wittle protomech looking things
In a modern context, that's like a tank going up against 20 infantries carrying six javelines each. Gears have weapons that can take out another gear in one shot, they just aren't practical because of the difficulty of getting a lock on each other. There's no need to hold back on equipment when aiming at something as big as an office building.
@Ibushi yes but the atlas battle mech was built to sustain heavy fire while dish out even more so it would be more like 20 rocket soldiers going up against an AC 130
Sure, the Atlas is just too massive to be taken down that easily. Gears tho, have two damage types, one for external armor, another for internal damage. They don't have to whittle down the armor to get at what's inside. Gear weapons are based around armor penetration at extreme ranges against fast moving targets.
It does put into question how well an Atlas will do against sustained fire from pinpoint accurate armor piercing weapons. And then multiply that by 20.
@Ibushi Mechs have 3 types of armor. Ferro, Reflective and Reactive. Reactive, specialized against projectile weapons would make those APs bounce off.
But I personally think these two cannot be compared. One is more of an exosuit while the other one is overgrown walking tank. Each of them has weapons systems designed against enemies of its own type. It would be difficult to hit small fast-moving target like you in my Kodiak as well as you'd have hard time penetrating my armor.
@Ibushi I would love to see 20 Heavy Gears take on any mech equipped with an Anti-Personnel Gauss Rifle. They might be fast, but even they cant out run advanced tracking systems and supersonic flechettes.
@MechwarriorTanki Maybe they can't outrun the flechettes, but they could totally outmaneuver the atlases low turning speed of it's torso. An atlas maybe is fearsome if it stares you down, but all that firepower ain't gonna do much if it can't get it's guns to point toward the target.
Now gears versus light-medium mechs with gauss rifles could be fun. :)
@Ibushi You never played Classic Battletech otherwise your statement wouldn't sound ignorant . Battlemechs are built the same way. Armor peircing weapons in Classic Battletech works differently. You're not gauranteed to do damage to the internal structure. Battlemechs like the Atlas are built to take a lot of damage and the pilot would be moving so not every heavy gear pilot would hit (a lot of them would but not all).
@Ibushi Really? Atlas can DESTROY any heavygear you put it up against. even if atlas was missing an arm or 2. But, put atlas up against a armored core robot, and its goodbye atlas
@HuchiaZ Except an ATLAS, ACs are silly little Japanese mechs that skate around on roller blades and don't look remotely believable in terms of the real world.
@angelmarine1292 hm really? Never recall an Armored core having roller blades, or looking much different from an enlarged hard suit. Though what your describing sounds a lot like a chrome hound o_O
@Ibushi in the battletech universe, there are battlearmors and elementals. Squads of these exosuit infantry can still do pretty serious damage to unsupported heavy mechs. They move pretty fast too.
@ShadowTheHedgehogX99 shadow woot for mechwarrior one of the oldest series ever made first battletech book released in around 1950 yeah its great and old
If you think about it battletech is one of the most best mech simulation franchises out there in my opinion its the best but its 50 years old first book is about 50 years old so yeah its old, epic, and intense and the story plots are pretty well put together and they keep getting better and keep getting bigger wooooot for mechwarrior
@mwhighlander The robots in Heavy Gear were originally designed for construction. They were retrofitted w/ weapons later on when war broke out (fingers and a posable thumb are useful for picking up stuff :D).
@KURUKSTRA That's a wonderful little piece of music created by Soundelux - the music house that worked for Activision to provide the soundtrack for both Heavy Gear games AND the MechWarrior 2 series; I *think* it's from the first Heavy Gear game, but after a while it all blends together (and I doubt many of my old sim-games would run properly on this new 64bit O/S...
You are all thinking with today's standards of equipment and tactics. Shurryy not all mechs have upper arms and then weapons, some have lower arms and hands, omitting them for weapons is just a design choice. irR4ti0n4L, "ground" radar has it's limitations but, the designers would have added other detection systems to cover those limitations. A good Mechwarrior in the right mech could hold their own against a platoon of Gear, their skin is made to take many hits from another mech.
All of my comments last night were made with the assumption that those of you, who I made counterpoints to, had knowledge of the BattleMech/Mechwarrior story. These huge machines of war were designed through centuries, if not millenia, of warfare. They were designed so that 4-5 Warriors could do the work of hundreds, they were designed so that fewer lives would be lost in the wars between the Inner Sphere factions.
I was a Battletech/Mechwarrior fan for years, but what little I've seen/read about Heavy Gear has impressed the hell out of me. There's far more of a unified design aesthetic to the two sides and the weapons/shape of everything makes a lot more sense. You can tell a lot of work went into putting together a universe that has a great sense of internal logic.
I don't see how heavy gear could ever win? speed isnt everything and by the looks of it these lil mobile suites have nothing badass enough to make a well trained mechwarrior scared. Hell mechs have lasers and all I'd have to do is aim my shot and shoot him in the leg while he's going top speed and blow it off and watch the carneg! an thats just one peice of the mass amounts of weaponery mechs can have! MW wins hands down.
Exactly, and do not forget Battletech has powered armor as well. I wonder how one of those little things would hold up against an Elemental?! Lasers>speed, because you cannot outrun the speed of light...
@Kerenskyz15 Yep! battlemechs are all powerful!! if you don't mind me asking but are you a fan of clan wolf or wolf's dragoons.......I ask becuase of your name :P
@Kerenskyz15 lol I'm mostly either clan wolf or wolfs dragoons....They just fit me more than anyother clan or house.....but if I'd go with any house it'd be steiner! MECHS TILL WE DIE!!
@Kerenskyz15 Lol hey I was saying if I'd have to choose in the inner sphere other then that I'm clan all the way! and clan wolf took the most planets in the invasion I believe....they were some of the best out there even after they broke up into two factions.
@sparuto117 MW is larger and in all likelihood far more expensive. That means its several gears and those gears are harder to detect. They might just let you walk by, sneak into your base and do some damage than escape - and since they are faster you wont catch them.
Or they might lie in ambush, wait till you are in the middle of them and then attack from underneath or even above, where your guns cant reach them
@irR4tiOn4L mechs have cloacking tech that makes them well cloacked....so I think my "base" can detect a 10 ton bot thats kicking up dirt threw his lil skates going like 60mph. and I thought we already made this clear that you can't go faster then light?! that means your lil friend can go super sonic I can still take that fuck down! also you say stuff about an ambush, well if I'm in a heavy mech or even an assault mech I'm sure it'd be no problem. heavy weapons+heavy amour=no one survives >:D
Second, didnt establish no 'speed of light' crap with me
Third, the only cloak i heard of for mechs was going passive radar
Fourth, you ever played heavy gear? You sneak into bases all the time. Often staying hidden/crawling close than entering.
Let me put it another way - its hilly terrain, that small gear isnt coming up on radar (prone, small radar profile, masked by terrain). They watch you pass, then take their chance. then leave
@sparuto117 Now the Gear isnt going to be able to dodge your fire - but thats not the situation. Your base is lightly defended (otherwise they dont attack), youre out on patrol, the attack is quick and because they are quicker, they leave the base and you wont make it back or be able to pursue - you were never in gun range to begin with. That was the situation i described.
Now its obvious that you dont realise Gears have heavy weapons too. Not as well armoured overall, but still well,
@sparuto117 But most importantly, because they employ guerrilla tactics - go prone, passive rader, possible ECM and using terrain masking - they are extremely hard to spot on radar. A mech that towers above forests is a big radar target, but a prone gear behind trees is not. There could be an extra element of infrared detection on both sides, but the rules dont say much about that so im ignoring it. Generally speaking, the way the series work is that the Gear will be much more stealthy
@sparuto117 So there you are in your mech, on patrol, but you dont see anything. The gears detected you first (you are likely to be using active radar since you know your quarry is weaker) and took advantage of their speed to scatter, find cover and go prone behind terrain - where radar cannot detect them. Now these smaller, less armoured but comparatively heavily armed, multiple Gears are watching you and deciding what course of action to take
@sparuto117 Do they designate one LRM gear to fire rockets behind terrain while the others guide them to your position, with laser guiding, out of your field of vision? Perhaps they simply let you pass and continue with whatever mission they had (which likely wasnt to take on a mech). Or perhaps they try a surprise ambush, rushing you from multiple sides - some will be lost, but others will be able to get right underneath you, where they can use their melee or weaponry to attack your underbelly
@sparuto117 If we start talking penetration the Mech concept becomes unrealistic very fast (much quicker than the Gear concept) - because there are so many parts of a Mech that are exposed - legs and arms for one - and would be easily destroyed by, for example, tanks, rendering the mech useless. The gear, on the other hand, is smaller than a tank and while it also has vulnerable parts, its more like 'uparmoured' infantry and with its stealth and mobility may have some role on a battlefield.
@sparuto117 Course, both are probably not possible with modern construction, especially in terms of walking and agility, and they are FAR too light - even an Abrams weighs 60 tons, so how can a gear be 10?
But still, if we are reasonable and suspend some belief, a mixed Gear/Mech game could easily reach a balance with a role for both - and be very interesting! IMHO
@irR4tiOn4L yeah....atleast gear/mechs arent so far fetched like "gundam" they got 50 tons moving like super sonic jets :P and light sabers, high powered weapons and shit like that and there not even that far in the future.....atleast mechwarrior takes place in they year of 3000 and up.
@sparuto117 Oh I agree, Gundam is just totally over the top. What i like about Gears and mechs is that they can actually cross contaminate each other and STILL make sense!
Btw, the protomech vs mech comparison really is the best way to think about this (more advanced protomechs basically). Definitely not equal to a mech one on one, and arguably overall a lower level of tech, but effective in combined arms and numbers
@sparuto117 There is an issue in that in the Heavy Gear universe Gears tend to appear in limited numbers (the games usually see squads of 4-8), and yet in the Mechwarrior games youll see just as many, maybe even more, mechs.
So the logical conclusion must be that the Battletech universe must be far more capable of producing weaponry, and would crush the Heavy Gear universe.
Thats just idiosynchracies that have to be neutralised if both are to be in one game
@sparuto117 Ie, we have to assume we are being fair, and producing a fair tradeoff of mechs and gears that reflects their relatively resource intensity to produce. So with what it costs to produce one large mech, you might be able to produce 8 or more Gears. Then the whole thing begins to make sense
@irR4tiOn4L gears are much like big ass suits then a relyable war machine. I don't see any military making over sized rifles for the mech to lug around then just attach the weapon to the machine....I think mechs are abit more possible....and they come in more of a verity then gears. each mech is made for a certain job be that from scouting, ground support, artillery or straight up seig. they range from small fast mechs to heavy amoured gaints that strike fear in the hearts of many.
@sparuto117 Gears are far smaller than a mech and since they are largely 'up armoured infantry' it makes a lot of sense for them to be versatile. For a start, they may carry a variety of weapons including melee and cutting weapons, and be expected to manipulate objects in the environment, and for these things the ability to release a primary weapon makes sense. They might also have to maneuver prone or through tight spaces where, again, it makes sense.
@sparuto117 Big ass suits are also quite likely to be a reliable war machine - not so large as a gear perhaps, but a 'battle armor' type exoskeleton is probably the most plausible tehnology in these games. A mech is both too large, too vulnerable in many parts and too slow to be a good weapon of war. In the real world, where even heavy armor of MBT's is easily penetrated, a mech would be a sitting duck for air, artillery and tanks
@irR4tiOn4L and I've notice that your trying to argue cost? If in real life both would be expensive as hell.....but yes mech cost more becuase of it being better....I'd rather have one regament of senior mech warriors with there choice in mechs then a small army of gears. and the way gears are they'd most likely be trying to attack, use there speed against us. that means I can have my force get onto a hill and wait. history has showen that the high you are the better.
@sparuto117 Im not trying to 'argue' cost or even compare to the real world, i am thinking 'what if' battletech and heavy gear - the wargames and universes behind these games, were combined. How would you balance them? And as i said, both in Heavy Gear and battletech, a small machine like a protomech or gear is less costly than a mech. So assuming an equal economy, there should be more gears.
Otherwise, the gear clans would be totally overmatched because both universes are full of mech/gears
@sparuto117 I think a hill would be a very poor idea - being higher was an advantage in many time periods, but NOT when air power or missiles are available. On a hill top you could be hit from all sides, from above and from LRM's - and against a large number of dispersed enemies (that are hiding) your mechs may be overwhelmed.
Moreover, however, wouldnt it be easier for the Gears to just bypass you and attack your base/strategic resources?
@sparuto117 Its a bit like infantry vs tanks - even though the tank is immensely powerful, unsupported tanks are generally considered at the mercy of infantry equipped with anti tank weapons
Tanks can often take great losses in, eg, urban warfare and are ineffective attacking infantry through varying terrain, such as forests, where infantry can easily hide or disperse.
Meanwhile, infantry could the tank's bases and fuel dumps.
Thats why military doctrine calls for a combined arms approach.
@sparuto117 Just like a tank a single mech can only look in one direction and target one enemy. This reduces situational awareness and can mean the vehicle is flanked.
If the concept of 'gears as infantry' is taken further, these gears could then carry magnetic mines that, once they swarm a preoccupied mech, they deploy on a mech's legs or underside and trigger
@irR4tiOn4L All 'Mechs are equipped with a ground Radar system or a more sophisticated sensor package. If a designer didn't think to have some sort of weaponry in the back then the Warrior and his 'Mech could be blindsided attack wise but the Warrior would know that they are there.
@lthrbrca All radars have limitations. No radar can see behind hills (masked by terrain) and are prone to being confused by clutter close to the ground. Take the recent US raid against Osama's compound in Pakistan - by flying low helicopters were able to avoid radar coverage for hundreds of kilometres.
A small, prone Gear is likely to return radar signatures no more unusual than a rock as well as being concealed by clutter, vegetation and terrain. A 60m mech will stand out like a sore thumb
@sparuto117 Doesnt mean a mech is weak, but if it had more support or other gears to support its underside - or operated to support a number of gears - its vulnerabilities would be covered and it would be much harder to assault
@irR4tiOn4L and also there are light mechs that move fast as well and they have jump jets half the time! my mech of choice is the timber wolf or star adder. they have thick armour made to handle from missiles to high powerd lazers and even rail guns! a gear has what? a blade, a rifle maybe a pistol? that'll do nothing to a any my mechs....but hey you'd win against light mechs and maybe a medium mech that is if there a bad mech warrior but not against most mechs that people use.
@sparuto117 The point is that its not one sided - and each has a place on the battlefield. Now you mention light mechs - but do you realise that gears are not THAT small or all that lightly armed and armoured? Now, in your light mech, multiple Gears might stand a chance in a simple head on contest, particularly if they circle strafe - and they will also have jumpjets.
What im trying to say is not Gear>Mech - its actually, one for one, Mech > Gear. But cost for cost, its not so clear
@sparuto117 If you were familiar with both Heavy Gear and Mechwarrior games, youd see what i mean - these could actually cooperate really well, with each playing a different role on the battlefield thanks to the outright power of the mech and stealth of the Gear.
And again, a mech is larger and more heavily armoured, but you are overstating the differences. Consider this - is a destroyer more heavily armoured than an M1A1 MBT?
@sparuto117 A gear has comparatively thick armour over a small body - A mech has extremely thick armor but over a larger body, and certain parts are lightly armoured (back, underside) because they are not expected to come under attack.
Now a mech is still likely, with the heavier guns, to easily destroy a gear - but a number of Gears could still strike at the weaker armour of the Mech
At least in Battletech, where armour is destroyed by all munitions. Realistically, itd be about penetration
The mechs are so different in style, a real East vs West sort of thing. Mechwarrior features what are essentially walking tanks. They are a single part of a larger force and serve as front assault vehicles.
I don't know much at all about Heavy Gear, but it looks like they are basically guys in really big suits. More about the mobility and ease-of-piloting something that is simply, as my bro calls it "you, but bigger." Looks like a bunch of up-scaled infantry. I guess that works too in warfare.
@ZanTheFox Both are not really anything like Gundam or the manga type stuff, id say they are both pretty western, but definitely your bro is right about the difference.
Its not as implausible as it might sound though - we are already starting to build exoskeletons/suits, so this literally is 'scaled up infantry'. It probably wouldnt make much sense in reality (like a Mech - too big and fragile legs, tanks rule in reality) but a smaller type of infanty suit might
Hg vs MW now hg armor may be faster but their weapons sure are crap compared to a mechs. Mechs may be slow but they can destroy the HG suits in little time.
@JDVK what do you mean they won't be cost effective?? They would put economies at a drastic state considering prototypes would be near the billions/trillions and not to mention that the equipment must be made then connected.
@MrGamalier Yeah, itd be dead, but why fight you directly?gears can also fire from a long distance, but can hide more readily and go prone, and since they are cheaper, there may be several. So you might start getting hit by rockets from beyond a hill while a hidden gear directs the rockets - and they all scatter if you approach. Or you might just plain not be able to see them before they ambush you up close (hard to fire down). Its also unlikely that youll get the drop on them, being large
neither are actually viable if ever taken seriously as a means of war of course though unlike mechwarrior, heavy gear owing perhaps partly to it's VOTOMS inspiration are much more sensible in it's depiction of their role in a combined arms and their vulnerability to heavy weapons.
and unlike mechwarrior, all parts of the combined arms in heavy gear is much more competent, a gunship in heavy gear is still a lethal war machine, so is a tank or basic infantry squad.
Gundams are unequivocally the least realistic take on mobile armor ever. The Wing series and many of the latter being prime examples of that. 8Th MS Team is about the most realistic they have done and that is still far more mobile than what you would actually see fielded. As a whole, Mechwarrior makes the most sense control wise and size wise. And to be honest, Id like to see a Mobile Suit take a Heavy Gauss shell and shrug it off.
Mechwarrior FTW. Our Balistic weapons,persay a machine gun or LRM-5 might not be much against you,but what about a Guass Rifle slug? Or an MRM-40 or a PPC for that matter?
heavy gear is better gameplay and sotry mech warrior is for people who love good graphics and all just like people like gta 4 more than the clasiic gta san andreas and vice city
@w0lf3nst3inET what? People who like mechwarrior only like it for graphics?? Mechwarrior is so vastly different to heavy gear, mechwarrior is a sim for starters. I played it first as mechwarrior 2, which was certainly not the epitome of graphics :P
@w0lf3nst3inET If you think Mechwarrior/Battletech doesn't have a detailed story (good or bad is totally subjective, but most like it) than you are simply ignorant.
someone needs to do a playthrough of the first Heavy Gear game. I can't even find footage of it outside of the FMV's.
Ah well. Either way, the lot of us should pester the companies to get out a new Mech Warrior and a new Geavy Gear game. There's been nothing else out there that feels quite like the Heavy Gear games did.
How about throwing some e mails and the likes at the franchise owners?
So with that being said The weaponry that the HG brings to bear usually does exceed the str of most BA's, so with constant attack from their weapons, using terrain and speed to their advantage, then yes, they could, but they still need to worry about mechs heavy and fairly accurate attacks, one well placed attack and the HG's are done for, so, mechs need to worry about the HG's getting to close, and their speed, and HG's need to watch for getting hit, in the end, they can be an equal match.
I noticed that the BA's are just as capable of attacking and killing mechs with a little practice and skill, which, seeing as how most HG's are fairly the same size as BA's perhaps a little larger, they could very well do decent damage to a mech, if they used terrain and such to their advantage like a BA does, but the main difference from BA's and HG's is that all BA's have jump jets, where as most HG's need to drop alot to get those, and still they are not quite as agile as the BA's jumpjets.
I will say that after playing some MWLL, you start to notice a lot more... what is it.... the vastness to the range of most of the Mech weapons, Clearly I must of misjudged on what people consider long range, The flamethrower alone has a range of up to 100m, that is almost the length of a football field, and that is the shortest range weapon they have, But I will say something in Defense of HG's, since they deserve it.
Its kinda sad when these cutscenes from games made ages ago still look so good today. Whats gone wrong with games today? Nothing more exhilating while playing a game to see cut scenes like this.
This video seems pretty biased towards Heavy Gear- but they are way too different to be compared properly. A good PPC hit could probably kill a heavy gear outright- and there needs to be quite a few amount of them to even take on a medium 'mech. as for assault 'mechs, that's a different story...
However, they are more agile than 'mechs and could probably take down a light mech if they have enough numbers. But comparing them one-on-one is like comparing a 'mech to an oversized battlearmour suit.
Cmon, it's apples and oranges. Personally, i'd put HGs in the same class as the clan Protomechs (half the size of typical mechs, with a weight range of 2-9 tons). Look up the Battletech Tech Readout 3060 if you want to see the list (assuming you can still find the readouts).
In comparison of Heavy Gear and Mechwarrior/Battletech will have to include HG's Striders, which are much more like Mechs. The sheer armor and firepower of a Strider should be a match for any Mech up to 80tons at least. But HG is built around much more confined combat environments. Mechs can trash cities but get bogged down easily in Urban combat, especially against smaller more agile opponents.
For me, Heavy Gear has to much of a fantasy game. Robots with real hands and "human" guns? It wouldn´t surprise me if these machines have to go to the toilet from time to time. It's to far away from an imagination of an effective Battlemech.
@Winnywindl Well i sure would like to be able to crouch or lie prone in a MW once in a while, wouldnt you? Its not like they dont already have two arms and legs.. sheesh, pot calling the kettle black for implausible, human like robot technologies
BattleMechs can crouch. However, laying down in a battlemech would be retarded. The majority of 'Mech armament is mounted in the torso, and they cannot fire their arm mounted weaponry effectively with their face on the ground and their arms above the head of the 'mech. Plus, Battlemechs are deadly because they have a combination of extreme firepower, armor, and mobility. A prone 'mech is a dead 'mech. Although HG may be more mobile, they have far less firepower, 1 hit would destroy
@Kerenskyz15 Yes of course they are different machines, but what it means in terms of gameplay is that Mechs are tough to hide and stealth generally means 'they wont spot us until we shoot from 300m'.
The Heavy Gears are a lot more about stealth and stealth there means 'well enter the base/city undetected'
I found heavy gear's gameplay a lot more varied, whereas mechwarrior often just tasked you with 'go to x and kick ass'
Well BattleMechs were kinda designed for pure destruction.... =D it is what they do best. It is possible to stealth a Battlemech, though it generally requires employing ECM, long range weaponry with enhanced sensors, and ambushing by shutting down the 'Mech and powering it up when the enemy is in position. Gears probably did have more varied gameplay, but for Clanners like myself, we enjoy pure, undisrupted destruction XD
@Kerenskyz15 Oh I appreciate both games definitely, and MW is definitely more about awesome combat vehicle. I certainly like both types.
I reckon it would be nice to have both in a game too - the Gears are smaller and weaker, but that would be offset by their sneaking. They could ambush mechs or enter bases while Mechs served more direct combat roles.
Sneaking in a mech is only really with regard to other mechs - and you need a lot to do it. Gears sneak a lot more often and even against tanks
@Kerenskyz15 Think of gears as larger protomechs. Heres how protomechs are described;
"ProtoMechs were designed as a way for armored troops to deliver the firepower of a BattleMech to the battlefield without requiring a large amount of production resources. ProtoMech armor is more efficient in terms of its weight-to-protection ratio compared to 'Mech armor due to the reduced surface areas involved. The heaviest ProtoMechs can boast almost as much protection as some light 'Mechs."
@Winnywindl I said the same thing...then I played the tabletop and got a small pack of Gears, although they all look the same, some of the poses were pretty badass. The end result? now I have TWO giant robot games to love, but Btech will always be my number one ^^_
Actually, arms identical to those of a human would be optimal for any battle mech. I mean you just compare the video's, how the battlemechs are slow and unresponsive while the heavy gears can run, take cover, shoot from behind cover and in general are much more agile and it wouldn't surprise me if they could use all the battle mech's weapons, just sacrifice a limb and there you go.
This video is pointless in my opinion since the victor is obvious.
@Shurryy There is no comparison between gear and 'Mechs. An easier comparison would be Gear and Clan Power Armor or the ProtoMechs. Gear are approximately what 10 - 15 feet tall and carry maybe 1-2 weapons. BattleMechs range from 25' at the smallest (20 Tons) to over 60' at the largest (Atlas 100 Tons). Each BattleMech is anywhere from 40 - 75% weapons, ammo and heatsinks. IMHO Gears are nice, 'Mechs are better.
My point: Flexible Arms, limbs and legs is what any commander would want in their tanks so that they could move quickly and smoothly over any obstacle, that's what they are aiming for. They want an Agile tank that can pack a punch, in which case I'm saying if a robot could achieve human like mobility with arms and legs it would be optimal for any combat situation. If it's not mobile enough though it won't matter, since it wont be able to track faster strafing targets.
@Shurryy i dont know about that. all the mechs in heavy gear use roller blades and we all those those are for kids that couldn't use a skateboard. so heavy gear fails right away. :P
@Shurryy It boild down to the classic connunrum. Speed and maneuverability versus armor and sheer weapon power. Mechwarrior units were designed to be lumbering weapons platforms. Gears are more about versatility. In the end I could go either way as to who would win. it would depend almost entirely on the commanders involved and how effectively they used their strategies.
@Spiritrunner6 And i would like to add, it would also depend on the battlefield. An urban(totally close quarters),completely open etc. environment could make or break a match for either side.
i think a mechwarrior mech would be able to take much more punishment, because those other mechs seems to have alot more parts working in order to be at all effective.
That was kinda clever. After all Activision that made Heavy Gear 1 and 2 did also make MechWarrior 1 and 2 (inluding MW2 Mercs) before FASA (that owned Battleteh back then) took lisence away and gave it to Microprose that then made MechCommander and MechWarrior 3 before Microsoft got lisence and made MechWarrior 4 (including MW4 Mercs) and MechCommander 2.
Heavygears are offcourse since they're basically almost unreal and mechs are based on reality
gomby60 3 weeks ago
@gomby60 neither are based on reality XD.
LtBobby123 4 days ago
Just a reminder to everyone, MechWarriors online hits at the end of Q2 this year! It's going to be on a F2P model with a territory control meta game similar to EVE, go over to mwo.mercs dot com and join us. This isn't an add, I'd just like to see the community grow a bit prior to launch.
angelmarine1292 3 weeks ago
@angelmarine1292 I heard it might not be on PC, App only?
HuchiaZ 3 weeks ago
@HuchiaZ I'm the steam community lead, and a MechWarrior Online admin. This title is a PC exclusive.
angelmarine1292 3 weeks ago
@angelmarine1292 awesome looking forward to it then. Good hunting!
HuchiaZ 3 weeks ago
Mechwarrior won instantly when I came in with my MadCat and start shooting up those gear heads
2awsommee4U 1 month ago
the heavy gears are like protomechs with out the eventual insanity caused by the EI Implants.
OmegablueWolf 1 month ago
One other point, heavy gears have a tremendous amount of active and passive stealth abilities which could permanently hide it from all but a mechwarrior's eyes but they run on diesel, gasoline, and I think but could easily be wrong: hydrogen V-Engine and thus has a limited operating range. A battlemech on the other hand runs on a fusion reactor and even though it produces a tremendous amount of heat, it can run for decades.
shizaquife 2 months ago
A few other points: Both of their weapons can do the same amount of damage, you heard me right. But battlemechs can carry more of those same weapons. Battlemechs can take more damage and are sturdier but heavy gears are far more faster and maneuverable and their weapons in most cases can hit farther than 1500 meters putting them outside of a mech's hardest hitting weapons. Once again tanks have more firepower and armour than an IFV but it can still take out a tank through speed and flexibility.
shizaquife 2 months ago
When it comes to which one is better. I say that comment does not make any sense. Battlemechs are lumbering tanks, Heavy Gears are swift IFVs (infantry fighting vehicles without APC characteristics). Both have unique roles that the other cannot accomplish as well and thus the question: "Which one is better" is stupid. A better question would be: "Which job can be accomplished better by which one?"
shizaquife 2 months ago
To annoyance hazard, The canon of Battletech (or Mechwarrior for the uninformed) shows Assualt mechs being misrepresented by the computer games. Also the Atlas's arms can bend pretty fast, so the torso twist comment was really stupid. I'm usually pretty tolorent of other people's views, but I really dislike it when the ignorant makes baseless comments.
sinchocobo 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Ibushi
@sinchocobo I agree because as you look in the mechwarrior series, the annihilator was one of the largest mechs in the game and it could turn it's torso faster than most mechs
MadHornetSeries 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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MechGrinder 3 months ago
For those who think radar will make advantage for heavy gears, mechwarrior have their comebacks. Radar jamming devices send a unsteady signal, which confuses the radar so it cannot transmitt the last message (via mechs location). So the the radar is sucessfully down while concealing the epicenter of the signal. With that said, mechwarrior mechs have anti missle systems. So anyone who thinks a sigle jet could take one out, is now un likely due to the mountable turret destroying airborne hostiles.
JustComments90 3 months ago
Heavy Gear is gay.
youmadbro96 3 months ago
@youmadbro96 What an intelligent and thought provoking comment. Bravo!
AnnoyanceHazard 2 months ago
@AnnoyanceHazard is gay.
youmadbro96 2 months ago
Mechwarrior mechs are not as big as you think either. In the mechwarrior 3 intro, the Thor (The tall mech with the round missle pack) is about 5 stories high, A person is a little bit less than half a story, so they are big, but they are not as tall as a WHOLE office building. If you were thinking as tall as a whole office building, you would be thinking something like the tripod from "War of the Worlds."
JustComments90 3 months ago
@JustComments90 The heavys/assaults are still giant and lumbering. I don't even know why assaults exist. They can barely move. I kind of hated that MW4:mercs. forced me to use them at the end of the game.
AnnoyanceHazard 2 months ago
@AnnoyanceHazard the thor and madcat are actually fast, so is the highlander. The gladiator is another great choice too. (Although you have to install a mekpak to get the highlander).
JustComments90 2 months ago
@AnnoyanceHazard because assault class are not a true frontline mech.
eg: Fafnir. that thing is a heavy support mech equipped with dual gauss gun and max armor. but at cost with speed and heat efficiency.
except MKII, thor, mauler (they have speed, firepower, and armor)
kus2ganteng 2 hours ago
Heavy Gears seem a bit unrealistic in a sense. Alot of power is required to move legs, but inserting a engine to match it would not fit. Mechwarrior uses fission reactors, concealed in heavy armor. And that energy is more than enough to power it's average functions. I do agree, The assualt mechs are an easy sight, but something like an Uziel will be diffcult because of it's agile movement and ability to equip anti-missle systems. It's PPC would be a knockout punch for a heavy gear.
JustComments90 3 months ago
@JustComments90 Both are pretty unrealistic and awesome. I mean really, an assault "running speed" can barely be called a crawl. Light mechs would just snipe it with gauss(or some other long range weapon) cannons a few km. away.
Doesn't make the MW games less fun.
AnnoyanceHazard 2 months ago
@mwhighlander The reason given in the heavy gear backstory is thay the Gears don't have internal space for weapons. It's the cost of maneuverability.
IaidokaNC 3 months ago
Gears would win over mechs in the long run.
Gears are used as part of combined arms forces. Mech warriors work with mechs. Your typical heavy gear armoured division (6,000 troops, 1,250 Gears and 300 tanks) also has an air wing attached (60 strike craft) and Nor-Guard fielded 31 divisions in a single offense in the badlands. That's 40,000 gears. Plus landships.
In Heavy gear they have antimatter and nuclear weapons and aren't afraid to use them. In mechwarrior they dont know how to make them.
MrXandarth 4 months ago
@MrXandarth in Battle Tech the mechs are not deployed with out some kind of support typically they are deployed with infantry/powered armor units, tanks, and aerospace fighters/ bombers. the exact numbers vary though depending on what faction your fighting, whether its inner sphere or clan, and just how badly they want to win the battle. but you tube's character limit really dose not give me the space to explain they way these forces are organized.
evaunit143 3 months ago
@MrXandarth
they know how to muke nuclear weapons just fine
tho admitedly, they dont like to use them (cept the Word of Blake, but those guys are nuts)
DLuniz 3 months ago
Atlas and a behemoth are a terrible combo for these little guys you would take an uller, a ryoken, a daishi widowmaker (for when the little guys got cute(Atlas has too easy a headshot...left eye)) and the fourth one is up in the air though as a light pilot i would take another uller. or better yet 2 ullers and 2 puma primes that would give u 4 ppcs and 2 ultra ac 5s with a bunch of missiles and lasers backing it up. you could take on like 30 of the wee wittle protomech looking things
Marauder3299 4 months ago 2
i hate heavy gear style mechs. theyr so unrealistic and move like humans
dec20056 4 months ago 2
atlas and behemoth vs 20 heavy gear mechs winner is atlas
ShadowTheHedgehogX99 4 months ago 10
@ShadowTheHedgehogX99
In a modern context, that's like a tank going up against 20 infantries carrying six javelines each. Gears have weapons that can take out another gear in one shot, they just aren't practical because of the difficulty of getting a lock on each other. There's no need to hold back on equipment when aiming at something as big as an office building.
Ibushi 4 months ago
@Ibushi
Also, Dream Pod 9's not getting screwed over by Harmony Gold, unlike Pirahna, which is preventing the next installment of the "Mechwarrior" series.
CaptainSeato 4 months ago
@Ibushi yes but the atlas battle mech was built to sustain heavy fire while dish out even more so it would be more like 20 rocket soldiers going up against an AC 130
ShadowTheHedgehogX99 4 months ago
@Ibushi
Just because their weapons can take each other out in one shot doesn't mean it would take an Atlas down in one shot.
revolrz22 3 months ago
@revolrz22
Sure, the Atlas is just too massive to be taken down that easily. Gears tho, have two damage types, one for external armor, another for internal damage. They don't have to whittle down the armor to get at what's inside. Gear weapons are based around armor penetration at extreme ranges against fast moving targets.
It does put into question how well an Atlas will do against sustained fire from pinpoint accurate armor piercing weapons. And then multiply that by 20.
Ibushi 3 months ago
@Ibushi Mechs have 3 types of armor. Ferro, Reflective and Reactive. Reactive, specialized against projectile weapons would make those APs bounce off.
But I personally think these two cannot be compared. One is more of an exosuit while the other one is overgrown walking tank. Each of them has weapons systems designed against enemies of its own type. It would be difficult to hit small fast-moving target like you in my Kodiak as well as you'd have hard time penetrating my armor.
MartinRusin 3 months ago
@MartinRusin A butt-clenching experience for all! :D
AnnoyanceHazard 2 months ago
@Ibushi I would love to see 20 Heavy Gears take on any mech equipped with an Anti-Personnel Gauss Rifle. They might be fast, but even they cant out run advanced tracking systems and supersonic flechettes.
MechwarriorTanki 2 months ago
@MechwarriorTanki Maybe they can't outrun the flechettes, but they could totally outmaneuver the atlases low turning speed of it's torso. An atlas maybe is fearsome if it stares you down, but all that firepower ain't gonna do much if it can't get it's guns to point toward the target.
Now gears versus light-medium mechs with gauss rifles could be fun. :)
AnnoyanceHazard 2 months ago
Comment removed
MechwarriorTanki 2 months ago
@AnnoyanceHazard You forget the atlas has arms that are completely articulate. He does not have to have a fast torso twist to aim where he wants to.
MechwarriorTanki 2 months ago
@Ibushi You never played Classic Battletech otherwise your statement wouldn't sound ignorant . Battlemechs are built the same way. Armor peircing weapons in Classic Battletech works differently. You're not gauranteed to do damage to the internal structure. Battlemechs like the Atlas are built to take a lot of damage and the pilot would be moving so not every heavy gear pilot would hit (a lot of them would but not all).
sinchocobo 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Ibushi
@Ibushi Really? Atlas can DESTROY any heavygear you put it up against. even if atlas was missing an arm or 2. But, put atlas up against a armored core robot, and its goodbye atlas
TheUtube4913 1 month ago
@TheUtube4913
Uhhhhhhhh... Let me think........No.
56ki 1 month ago
@TheUtube4913 nothing can beat an AC.
HuchiaZ 4 weeks ago
@HuchiaZ Except an ATLAS, ACs are silly little Japanese mechs that skate around on roller blades and don't look remotely believable in terms of the real world.
angelmarine1292 3 weeks ago
@angelmarine1292 hm really? Never recall an Armored core having roller blades, or looking much different from an enlarged hard suit. Though what your describing sounds a lot like a chrome hound o_O
HuchiaZ 3 weeks ago
@Ibushi in the battletech universe, there are battlearmors and elementals. Squads of these exosuit infantry can still do pretty serious damage to unsupported heavy mechs. They move pretty fast too.
c3nty2 1 week ago
@ShadowTheHedgehogX99 shadow woot for mechwarrior one of the oldest series ever made first battletech book released in around 1950 yeah its great and old
MikeProductions1000 4 months ago
@ShadowTheHedgehogX99 correct
Bazooka2cm 3 months ago
If you think about it battletech is one of the most best mech simulation franchises out there in my opinion its the best but its 50 years old first book is about 50 years old so yeah its old, epic, and intense and the story plots are pretty well put together and they keep getting better and keep getting bigger wooooot for mechwarrior
MikeProductions1000 4 months ago 2
The age old argument of Atlas vs. Elemental
airman868 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mwhighlander The robots in Heavy Gear were originally designed for construction. They were retrofitted w/ weapons later on when war broke out (fingers and a posable thumb are useful for picking up stuff :D).
Ravage64 5 months ago
Comment removed
Ravage64 5 months ago
Two different, but equally awesome franchises!
Ravage64 5 months ago
No question Mechwarrior wins
dearlydie 5 months ago
@mwhighlander to make the robot more compatible to all kind of weapon!
TheCrysis95 5 months ago
Could someone help with track ?
It's obviously OST from some game, but which one ? )
L9go1as 5 months ago
MechWarrior III was the very first game which I've played on PC and it was AWESOME !
It's still one of the best game for me !
L9go1as 5 months ago
@L9go1as Mechwarrior 2 was my first. Dunno how i managed to figure out the controls at that age though. Amazing game, still play it occasionally.
Wildman70892 5 months ago
cool song !! what is it ?
KURUKSTRA 6 months ago
@KURUKSTRA That's a wonderful little piece of music created by Soundelux - the music house that worked for Activision to provide the soundtrack for both Heavy Gear games AND the MechWarrior 2 series; I *think* it's from the first Heavy Gear game, but after a while it all blends together (and I doubt many of my old sim-games would run properly on this new 64bit O/S...
empath69 6 months ago
You are all thinking with today's standards of equipment and tactics. Shurryy not all mechs have upper arms and then weapons, some have lower arms and hands, omitting them for weapons is just a design choice. irR4ti0n4L, "ground" radar has it's limitations but, the designers would have added other detection systems to cover those limitations. A good Mechwarrior in the right mech could hold their own against a platoon of Gear, their skin is made to take many hits from another mech.
lthrbrca 6 months ago
All of my comments last night were made with the assumption that those of you, who I made counterpoints to, had knowledge of the BattleMech/Mechwarrior story. These huge machines of war were designed through centuries, if not millenia, of warfare. They were designed so that 4-5 Warriors could do the work of hundreds, they were designed so that fewer lives would be lost in the wars between the Inner Sphere factions.
lthrbrca 6 months ago
I was a Battletech/Mechwarrior fan for years, but what little I've seen/read about Heavy Gear has impressed the hell out of me. There's far more of a unified design aesthetic to the two sides and the weapons/shape of everything makes a lot more sense. You can tell a lot of work went into putting together a universe that has a great sense of internal logic.
TheInflicted 6 months ago
The Clans will always reign supreme, ALWAYS
tripdefect87 6 months ago 2
@tripdefect87 Aff!
lthrbrca 6 months ago
swarming a 'mech? anti-battle armor pods come to mind...
genericTerrorist78 6 months ago
I don't see how heavy gear could ever win? speed isnt everything and by the looks of it these lil mobile suites have nothing badass enough to make a well trained mechwarrior scared. Hell mechs have lasers and all I'd have to do is aim my shot and shoot him in the leg while he's going top speed and blow it off and watch the carneg! an thats just one peice of the mass amounts of weaponery mechs can have! MW wins hands down.
sparuto117 6 months ago
@sparuto117
Exactly, and do not forget Battletech has powered armor as well. I wonder how one of those little things would hold up against an Elemental?! Lasers>speed, because you cannot outrun the speed of light...
Kerenskyz15 6 months ago
@Kerenskyz15 Yep! battlemechs are all powerful!! if you don't mind me asking but are you a fan of clan wolf or wolf's dragoons.......I ask becuase of your name :P
sparuto117 6 months ago
@sparuto117
I am more of a purist Clan type, I am not much for clan offshoots, but like Clan Wolf, and ironicly their rivals Jade Falcon
Kerenskyz15 6 months ago
@Kerenskyz15 lol I'm mostly either clan wolf or wolfs dragoons....They just fit me more than anyother clan or house.....but if I'd go with any house it'd be steiner! MECHS TILL WE DIE!!
sparuto117 6 months ago
@sparuto117
Eww Inner Sphere... :p
Kerenskyz15 6 months ago
@Kerenskyz15 Lol hey I was saying if I'd have to choose in the inner sphere other then that I'm clan all the way! and clan wolf took the most planets in the invasion I believe....they were some of the best out there even after they broke up into two factions.
sparuto117 6 months ago
@sparuto117 MW is larger and in all likelihood far more expensive. That means its several gears and those gears are harder to detect. They might just let you walk by, sneak into your base and do some damage than escape - and since they are faster you wont catch them.
Or they might lie in ambush, wait till you are in the middle of them and then attack from underneath or even above, where your guns cant reach them
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@irR4tiOn4L mechs have cloacking tech that makes them well cloacked....so I think my "base" can detect a 10 ton bot thats kicking up dirt threw his lil skates going like 60mph. and I thought we already made this clear that you can't go faster then light?! that means your lil friend can go super sonic I can still take that fuck down! also you say stuff about an ambush, well if I'm in a heavy mech or even an assault mech I'm sure it'd be no problem. heavy weapons+heavy amour=no one survives >:D
sparuto117 6 months ago
@sparuto117 First off, chill
Second, didnt establish no 'speed of light' crap with me
Third, the only cloak i heard of for mechs was going passive radar
Fourth, you ever played heavy gear? You sneak into bases all the time. Often staying hidden/crawling close than entering.
Let me put it another way - its hilly terrain, that small gear isnt coming up on radar (prone, small radar profile, masked by terrain). They watch you pass, then take their chance. then leave
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 Now the Gear isnt going to be able to dodge your fire - but thats not the situation. Your base is lightly defended (otherwise they dont attack), youre out on patrol, the attack is quick and because they are quicker, they leave the base and you wont make it back or be able to pursue - you were never in gun range to begin with. That was the situation i described.
Now its obvious that you dont realise Gears have heavy weapons too. Not as well armoured overall, but still well,
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 But most importantly, because they employ guerrilla tactics - go prone, passive rader, possible ECM and using terrain masking - they are extremely hard to spot on radar. A mech that towers above forests is a big radar target, but a prone gear behind trees is not. There could be an extra element of infrared detection on both sides, but the rules dont say much about that so im ignoring it. Generally speaking, the way the series work is that the Gear will be much more stealthy
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 So there you are in your mech, on patrol, but you dont see anything. The gears detected you first (you are likely to be using active radar since you know your quarry is weaker) and took advantage of their speed to scatter, find cover and go prone behind terrain - where radar cannot detect them. Now these smaller, less armoured but comparatively heavily armed, multiple Gears are watching you and deciding what course of action to take
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 Do they designate one LRM gear to fire rockets behind terrain while the others guide them to your position, with laser guiding, out of your field of vision? Perhaps they simply let you pass and continue with whatever mission they had (which likely wasnt to take on a mech). Or perhaps they try a surprise ambush, rushing you from multiple sides - some will be lost, but others will be able to get right underneath you, where they can use their melee or weaponry to attack your underbelly
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 If we start talking penetration the Mech concept becomes unrealistic very fast (much quicker than the Gear concept) - because there are so many parts of a Mech that are exposed - legs and arms for one - and would be easily destroyed by, for example, tanks, rendering the mech useless. The gear, on the other hand, is smaller than a tank and while it also has vulnerable parts, its more like 'uparmoured' infantry and with its stealth and mobility may have some role on a battlefield.
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 Course, both are probably not possible with modern construction, especially in terms of walking and agility, and they are FAR too light - even an Abrams weighs 60 tons, so how can a gear be 10?
But still, if we are reasonable and suspend some belief, a mixed Gear/Mech game could easily reach a balance with a role for both - and be very interesting! IMHO
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@irR4tiOn4L yeah....atleast gear/mechs arent so far fetched like "gundam" they got 50 tons moving like super sonic jets :P and light sabers, high powered weapons and shit like that and there not even that far in the future.....atleast mechwarrior takes place in they year of 3000 and up.
sparuto117 6 months ago
@sparuto117 Oh I agree, Gundam is just totally over the top. What i like about Gears and mechs is that they can actually cross contaminate each other and STILL make sense!
Btw, the protomech vs mech comparison really is the best way to think about this (more advanced protomechs basically). Definitely not equal to a mech one on one, and arguably overall a lower level of tech, but effective in combined arms and numbers
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 There is an issue in that in the Heavy Gear universe Gears tend to appear in limited numbers (the games usually see squads of 4-8), and yet in the Mechwarrior games youll see just as many, maybe even more, mechs.
So the logical conclusion must be that the Battletech universe must be far more capable of producing weaponry, and would crush the Heavy Gear universe.
Thats just idiosynchracies that have to be neutralised if both are to be in one game
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 Ie, we have to assume we are being fair, and producing a fair tradeoff of mechs and gears that reflects their relatively resource intensity to produce. So with what it costs to produce one large mech, you might be able to produce 8 or more Gears. Then the whole thing begins to make sense
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@irR4tiOn4L gears are much like big ass suits then a relyable war machine. I don't see any military making over sized rifles for the mech to lug around then just attach the weapon to the machine....I think mechs are abit more possible....and they come in more of a verity then gears. each mech is made for a certain job be that from scouting, ground support, artillery or straight up seig. they range from small fast mechs to heavy amoured gaints that strike fear in the hearts of many.
sparuto117 6 months ago
@sparuto117 Gears are far smaller than a mech and since they are largely 'up armoured infantry' it makes a lot of sense for them to be versatile. For a start, they may carry a variety of weapons including melee and cutting weapons, and be expected to manipulate objects in the environment, and for these things the ability to release a primary weapon makes sense. They might also have to maneuver prone or through tight spaces where, again, it makes sense.
A mech can do none of these things
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 Big ass suits are also quite likely to be a reliable war machine - not so large as a gear perhaps, but a 'battle armor' type exoskeleton is probably the most plausible tehnology in these games. A mech is both too large, too vulnerable in many parts and too slow to be a good weapon of war. In the real world, where even heavy armor of MBT's is easily penetrated, a mech would be a sitting duck for air, artillery and tanks
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@irR4tiOn4L and I've notice that your trying to argue cost? If in real life both would be expensive as hell.....but yes mech cost more becuase of it being better....I'd rather have one regament of senior mech warriors with there choice in mechs then a small army of gears. and the way gears are they'd most likely be trying to attack, use there speed against us. that means I can have my force get onto a hill and wait. history has showen that the high you are the better.
sparuto117 6 months ago
@sparuto117 Im not trying to 'argue' cost or even compare to the real world, i am thinking 'what if' battletech and heavy gear - the wargames and universes behind these games, were combined. How would you balance them? And as i said, both in Heavy Gear and battletech, a small machine like a protomech or gear is less costly than a mech. So assuming an equal economy, there should be more gears.
Otherwise, the gear clans would be totally overmatched because both universes are full of mech/gears
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 I think a hill would be a very poor idea - being higher was an advantage in many time periods, but NOT when air power or missiles are available. On a hill top you could be hit from all sides, from above and from LRM's - and against a large number of dispersed enemies (that are hiding) your mechs may be overwhelmed.
Moreover, however, wouldnt it be easier for the Gears to just bypass you and attack your base/strategic resources?
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 Its a bit like infantry vs tanks - even though the tank is immensely powerful, unsupported tanks are generally considered at the mercy of infantry equipped with anti tank weapons
Tanks can often take great losses in, eg, urban warfare and are ineffective attacking infantry through varying terrain, such as forests, where infantry can easily hide or disperse.
Meanwhile, infantry could the tank's bases and fuel dumps.
Thats why military doctrine calls for a combined arms approach.
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 Just like a tank a single mech can only look in one direction and target one enemy. This reduces situational awareness and can mean the vehicle is flanked.
If the concept of 'gears as infantry' is taken further, these gears could then carry magnetic mines that, once they swarm a preoccupied mech, they deploy on a mech's legs or underside and trigger
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@irR4tiOn4L All 'Mechs are equipped with a ground Radar system or a more sophisticated sensor package. If a designer didn't think to have some sort of weaponry in the back then the Warrior and his 'Mech could be blindsided attack wise but the Warrior would know that they are there.
lthrbrca 6 months ago
@lthrbrca All radars have limitations. No radar can see behind hills (masked by terrain) and are prone to being confused by clutter close to the ground. Take the recent US raid against Osama's compound in Pakistan - by flying low helicopters were able to avoid radar coverage for hundreds of kilometres.
A small, prone Gear is likely to return radar signatures no more unusual than a rock as well as being concealed by clutter, vegetation and terrain. A 60m mech will stand out like a sore thumb
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 Doesnt mean a mech is weak, but if it had more support or other gears to support its underside - or operated to support a number of gears - its vulnerabilities would be covered and it would be much harder to assault
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@irR4tiOn4L and also there are light mechs that move fast as well and they have jump jets half the time! my mech of choice is the timber wolf or star adder. they have thick armour made to handle from missiles to high powerd lazers and even rail guns! a gear has what? a blade, a rifle maybe a pistol? that'll do nothing to a any my mechs....but hey you'd win against light mechs and maybe a medium mech that is if there a bad mech warrior but not against most mechs that people use.
sparuto117 6 months ago
@sparuto117 The point is that its not one sided - and each has a place on the battlefield. Now you mention light mechs - but do you realise that gears are not THAT small or all that lightly armed and armoured? Now, in your light mech, multiple Gears might stand a chance in a simple head on contest, particularly if they circle strafe - and they will also have jumpjets.
What im trying to say is not Gear>Mech - its actually, one for one, Mech > Gear. But cost for cost, its not so clear
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 If you were familiar with both Heavy Gear and Mechwarrior games, youd see what i mean - these could actually cooperate really well, with each playing a different role on the battlefield thanks to the outright power of the mech and stealth of the Gear.
And again, a mech is larger and more heavily armoured, but you are overstating the differences. Consider this - is a destroyer more heavily armoured than an M1A1 MBT?
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@sparuto117 A gear has comparatively thick armour over a small body - A mech has extremely thick armor but over a larger body, and certain parts are lightly armoured (back, underside) because they are not expected to come under attack.
Now a mech is still likely, with the heavier guns, to easily destroy a gear - but a number of Gears could still strike at the weaker armour of the Mech
At least in Battletech, where armour is destroyed by all munitions. Realistically, itd be about penetration
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@irR4tiOn4L Sorry, meant 'heavy' not 'thick' armour
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
The mechs are so different in style, a real East vs West sort of thing. Mechwarrior features what are essentially walking tanks. They are a single part of a larger force and serve as front assault vehicles.
I don't know much at all about Heavy Gear, but it looks like they are basically guys in really big suits. More about the mobility and ease-of-piloting something that is simply, as my bro calls it "you, but bigger." Looks like a bunch of up-scaled infantry. I guess that works too in warfare.
ZanTheFox 7 months ago
@ZanTheFox Both are not really anything like Gundam or the manga type stuff, id say they are both pretty western, but definitely your bro is right about the difference.
Its not as implausible as it might sound though - we are already starting to build exoskeletons/suits, so this literally is 'scaled up infantry'. It probably wouldnt make much sense in reality (like a Mech - too big and fragile legs, tanks rule in reality) but a smaller type of infanty suit might
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
Hg vs MW now hg armor may be faster but their weapons sure are crap compared to a mechs. Mechs may be slow but they can destroy the HG suits in little time.
MW wins
Accept the fact
tejimun 7 months ago
@JDVK what do you mean they won't be cost effective?? They would put economies at a drastic state considering prototypes would be near the billions/trillions and not to mention that the equipment must be made then connected.
tejimun 7 months ago
HEAVY GEARS ARE FASTER THAN MECHWARRIORS =)
MrGamalier 7 months ago
@MrGamalier
But they don't have any good weapons.
madcat789 7 months ago
@madcat789 food point my friend but the mechwarriors can aim from far away imagine a heavy gear getting hit by the gauss rifle shot
MrGamalier 7 months ago
@MrGamalier What about a Heavy Gauss rifle round? Or an ER Heavy PPC or three ER PPCs?
madcat789 7 months ago
@madcat789 heavy PPCS
MrGamalier 7 months ago
@MrGamalier Yeah, itd be dead, but why fight you directly?gears can also fire from a long distance, but can hide more readily and go prone, and since they are cheaper, there may be several. So you might start getting hit by rockets from beyond a hill while a hidden gear directs the rockets - and they all scatter if you approach. Or you might just plain not be able to see them before they ambush you up close (hard to fire down). Its also unlikely that youll get the drop on them, being large
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
what are those rollerblading queer anime oversized AK carying mecha shits?
NosferatuAaacaado 7 months ago
@Mega1337hax0r
Thanks, i could have sworn i ripped the 1st audio track on the CD.
Ibushi 8 months ago
neither are actually viable if ever taken seriously as a means of war of course though unlike mechwarrior, heavy gear owing perhaps partly to it's VOTOMS inspiration are much more sensible in it's depiction of their role in a combined arms and their vulnerability to heavy weapons.
and unlike mechwarrior, all parts of the combined arms in heavy gear is much more competent, a gunship in heavy gear is still a lethal war machine, so is a tank or basic infantry squad.
IonoTheFanatics 8 months ago
i like both
cramtoro 9 months ago
Heavy Gears just make more sense financially since they aren't as large as most mechs. So they can be used on a larger scale.
rayne870 10 months ago
They'd all lose to Gundam Wing Mobile Suits.
SaveaChicken 10 months ago
@SaveaChicken
Gundams are unequivocally the least realistic take on mobile armor ever. The Wing series and many of the latter being prime examples of that. 8Th MS Team is about the most realistic they have done and that is still far more mobile than what you would actually see fielded. As a whole, Mechwarrior makes the most sense control wise and size wise. And to be honest, Id like to see a Mobile Suit take a Heavy Gauss shell and shrug it off.
foughtwolf 10 months ago
чо это за шляпа?
cherkash44 11 months ago
1:08 First Blood... Headshot... Dominating... MEGAKILL... ULTRAKILL... WICKED SICK GOD LIKE...
korodore 11 months ago
Mechwarrior FTW. Our Balistic weapons,persay a machine gun or LRM-5 might not be much against you,but what about a Guass Rifle slug? Or an MRM-40 or a PPC for that matter?
madcat789 11 months ago
heavy gear is better gameplay and sotry mech warrior is for people who love good graphics and all just like people like gta 4 more than the clasiic gta san andreas and vice city
w0lf3nst3inET 11 months ago
@w0lf3nst3inET what? People who like mechwarrior only like it for graphics?? Mechwarrior is so vastly different to heavy gear, mechwarrior is a sim for starters. I played it first as mechwarrior 2, which was certainly not the epitome of graphics :P
hippytimefunbox 11 months ago
@w0lf3nst3inET If you think Mechwarrior/Battletech doesn't have a detailed story (good or bad is totally subjective, but most like it) than you are simply ignorant.
Significantpower 10 months ago 24
@Significantpower They are probably the people who only played Mechassault: Phantom war. lol
scuzzy5005 7 months ago
Mechs are better what they lack in agility and speed they make up for in firepower and armor ps I think mechs won
spiderzz1 11 months ago
So seriously, who won? :P
SDG
PatrickEklektos 1 year ago
someone needs to do a playthrough of the first Heavy Gear game. I can't even find footage of it outside of the FMV's.
Ah well. Either way, the lot of us should pester the companies to get out a new Mech Warrior and a new Geavy Gear game. There's been nothing else out there that feels quite like the Heavy Gear games did.
How about throwing some e mails and the likes at the franchise owners?
Bangcat 1 year ago
So with that being said The weaponry that the HG brings to bear usually does exceed the str of most BA's, so with constant attack from their weapons, using terrain and speed to their advantage, then yes, they could, but they still need to worry about mechs heavy and fairly accurate attacks, one well placed attack and the HG's are done for, so, mechs need to worry about the HG's getting to close, and their speed, and HG's need to watch for getting hit, in the end, they can be an equal match.
DoubleJJizzle 1 year ago
I noticed that the BA's are just as capable of attacking and killing mechs with a little practice and skill, which, seeing as how most HG's are fairly the same size as BA's perhaps a little larger, they could very well do decent damage to a mech, if they used terrain and such to their advantage like a BA does, but the main difference from BA's and HG's is that all BA's have jump jets, where as most HG's need to drop alot to get those, and still they are not quite as agile as the BA's jumpjets.
DoubleJJizzle 1 year ago
I will say that after playing some MWLL, you start to notice a lot more... what is it.... the vastness to the range of most of the Mech weapons, Clearly I must of misjudged on what people consider long range, The flamethrower alone has a range of up to 100m, that is almost the length of a football field, and that is the shortest range weapon they have, But I will say something in Defense of HG's, since they deserve it.
DoubleJJizzle 1 year ago
Its kinda sad when these cutscenes from games made ages ago still look so good today. Whats gone wrong with games today? Nothing more exhilating while playing a game to see cut scenes like this.
700gsteak 1 year ago
It is the best video for Mechwarrior I've ever seen!
chickenxxxD 1 year ago
Ok there both good. God...
Gamer08ful 1 year ago
This video seems pretty biased towards Heavy Gear- but they are way too different to be compared properly. A good PPC hit could probably kill a heavy gear outright- and there needs to be quite a few amount of them to even take on a medium 'mech. as for assault 'mechs, that's a different story...
However, they are more agile than 'mechs and could probably take down a light mech if they have enough numbers. But comparing them one-on-one is like comparing a 'mech to an oversized battlearmour suit.
adamant356 1 year ago
Heavy Gear will win with speed... Mechawarrior will win with armor and firepower... well... this a fairly even match.
themangix357 1 year ago
Cmon, it's apples and oranges. Personally, i'd put HGs in the same class as the clan Protomechs (half the size of typical mechs, with a weight range of 2-9 tons). Look up the Battletech Tech Readout 3060 if you want to see the list (assuming you can still find the readouts).
Siolfor80 1 year ago
In comparison of Heavy Gear and Mechwarrior/Battletech will have to include HG's Striders, which are much more like Mechs. The sheer armor and firepower of a Strider should be a match for any Mech up to 80tons at least. But HG is built around much more confined combat environments. Mechs can trash cities but get bogged down easily in Urban combat, especially against smaller more agile opponents.
DocWolph 1 year ago
Mechwarrior wins. No competition.
theguywiththename888 1 year ago
I am a big fan of Mechwarrior, but truthfully neither side wins, the Titans from Warhammer 40,000 would destroy them both.
dreadred92 1 year ago
Thumbs up if Timberwolf (Mad Cat) was and is the best 'mech.
cbielite 1 year ago
For me, Heavy Gear has to much of a fantasy game. Robots with real hands and "human" guns? It wouldn´t surprise me if these machines have to go to the toilet from time to time. It's to far away from an imagination of an effective Battlemech.
But everyone has a favorite...
I'm looking forward to MW5.
Winnywindl 1 year ago 10
@Winnywindl Well i sure would like to be able to crouch or lie prone in a MW once in a while, wouldnt you? Its not like they dont already have two arms and legs.. sheesh, pot calling the kettle black for implausible, human like robot technologies
irR4tiOn4L 7 months ago
@irR4tiOn4L
BattleMechs can crouch. However, laying down in a battlemech would be retarded. The majority of 'Mech armament is mounted in the torso, and they cannot fire their arm mounted weaponry effectively with their face on the ground and their arms above the head of the 'mech. Plus, Battlemechs are deadly because they have a combination of extreme firepower, armor, and mobility. A prone 'mech is a dead 'mech. Although HG may be more mobile, they have far less firepower, 1 hit would destroy
Kerenskyz15 6 months ago
@Kerenskyz15 Yes of course they are different machines, but what it means in terms of gameplay is that Mechs are tough to hide and stealth generally means 'they wont spot us until we shoot from 300m'.
The Heavy Gears are a lot more about stealth and stealth there means 'well enter the base/city undetected'
I found heavy gear's gameplay a lot more varied, whereas mechwarrior often just tasked you with 'go to x and kick ass'
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@irR4tiOn4L
Well BattleMechs were kinda designed for pure destruction.... =D it is what they do best. It is possible to stealth a Battlemech, though it generally requires employing ECM, long range weaponry with enhanced sensors, and ambushing by shutting down the 'Mech and powering it up when the enemy is in position. Gears probably did have more varied gameplay, but for Clanners like myself, we enjoy pure, undisrupted destruction XD
Kerenskyz15 6 months ago
@Kerenskyz15 Oh I appreciate both games definitely, and MW is definitely more about awesome combat vehicle. I certainly like both types.
I reckon it would be nice to have both in a game too - the Gears are smaller and weaker, but that would be offset by their sneaking. They could ambush mechs or enter bases while Mechs served more direct combat roles.
Sneaking in a mech is only really with regard to other mechs - and you need a lot to do it. Gears sneak a lot more often and even against tanks
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@Kerenskyz15 Think of gears as larger protomechs. Heres how protomechs are described;
"ProtoMechs were designed as a way for armored troops to deliver the firepower of a BattleMech to the battlefield without requiring a large amount of production resources. ProtoMech armor is more efficient in terms of its weight-to-protection ratio compared to 'Mech armor due to the reduced surface areas involved. The heaviest ProtoMechs can boast almost as much protection as some light 'Mechs."
irR4tiOn4L 6 months ago
@Winnywindl
The Heavy Gears are basically the elementals from BT
JoshuatheKodiak 7 months ago
@Winnywindl I said the same thing...then I played the tabletop and got a small pack of Gears, although they all look the same, some of the poses were pretty badass. The end result? now I have TWO giant robot games to love, but Btech will always be my number one ^^_
Mortarion12 6 months ago
@Winnywindl
Actually, arms identical to those of a human would be optimal for any battle mech. I mean you just compare the video's, how the battlemechs are slow and unresponsive while the heavy gears can run, take cover, shoot from behind cover and in general are much more agile and it wouldn't surprise me if they could use all the battle mech's weapons, just sacrifice a limb and there you go.
This video is pointless in my opinion since the victor is obvious.
Love MechWarrior though.
Shurryy 6 months ago 2
@Shurryy There is no comparison between gear and 'Mechs. An easier comparison would be Gear and Clan Power Armor or the ProtoMechs. Gear are approximately what 10 - 15 feet tall and carry maybe 1-2 weapons. BattleMechs range from 25' at the smallest (20 Tons) to over 60' at the largest (Atlas 100 Tons). Each BattleMech is anywhere from 40 - 75% weapons, ammo and heatsinks. IMHO Gears are nice, 'Mechs are better.
lthrbrca 6 months ago
@lthrbrca
Not my point.
My point: Flexible Arms, limbs and legs is what any commander would want in their tanks so that they could move quickly and smoothly over any obstacle, that's what they are aiming for. They want an Agile tank that can pack a punch, in which case I'm saying if a robot could achieve human like mobility with arms and legs it would be optimal for any combat situation. If it's not mobile enough though it won't matter, since it wont be able to track faster strafing targets.
Shurryy 6 months ago
@Shurryy i dont know about that. all the mechs in heavy gear use roller blades and we all those those are for kids that couldn't use a skateboard. so heavy gear fails right away. :P
Iznuts69 6 months ago
@Iznuts69
Your fanboyism makes your points invalid... And for denying the obvious your points are worthless.
Shurryy 6 months ago
@Shurryy It boild down to the classic connunrum. Speed and maneuverability versus armor and sheer weapon power. Mechwarrior units were designed to be lumbering weapons platforms. Gears are more about versatility. In the end I could go either way as to who would win. it would depend almost entirely on the commanders involved and how effectively they used their strategies.
Spiritrunner6 6 months ago 9
@Spiritrunner6
Valid point.
Shurryy 6 months ago
@Spiritrunner6 And i would like to add, it would also depend on the battlefield. An urban(totally close quarters),completely open etc. environment could make or break a match for either side.
AnnoyanceHazard 2 months ago
An AC would own both of them. at once
baval5 1 year ago
Who cares? The real winners would be the Heavy Gear landships. They'd demolish the entire MechWarrior universe by themselves.
Psychlonic 1 year ago
@Psychlonic Would the landship be able to withstand an orbital bombardment of a capital ship?
Wahlnutz 1 year ago
i think a mechwarrior mech would be able to take much more punishment, because those other mechs seems to have alot more parts working in order to be at all effective.
bud389 1 year ago
I'd rather have an Armored Core NEXT than a crappy "Heavy Gear," on the other hand, id love a Mad Cat MKII as well
gdiforeman 1 year ago
Very cool, wlll done!
If Mechwarrior 5 is like this that world be cool!
RadDadCommand 1 year ago
Very cool, wlll done!
If Mechwarrior 5 is like this that world be cool!
RadDadCommand 1 year ago
That was kinda clever. After all Activision that made Heavy Gear 1 and 2 did also make MechWarrior 1 and 2 (inluding MW2 Mercs) before FASA (that owned Battleteh back then) took lisence away and gave it to Microprose that then made MechCommander and MechWarrior 3 before Microsoft got lisence and made MechWarrior 4 (including MW4 Mercs) and MechCommander 2.
Mecha82 1 year ago
im sorry but armored core for answer pwns all
shiroshini 1 year ago