That pic of an ugly fat-ass in lingerie is so damn symbolic of Madison Square Garden and Penn Station. THROW OUT the Knicks and Rangers, they can chase a basketball anywhere in NYC and REBUILD Penn Station. Give NYC a classy Penn Station.
Rebuild the original. Demolish MSG. MSG is also the name of a vile additive to foods which leads to various health problems. Similarly for MSG the structure, and eyesore and wound to NYC. Keep the post office, repurpose it if the space is no longer needed by the Postal Service. But Bring back the real Penn Station. Rebuild.
@dpas2009 The post office is grand and beautiful, and should be retained and repurposed if the postal facilities move out or are reduced. However, the original Penn Station should still be rebuilt in addition, on the site of Madison Square Garbage.
I know most of you don't realize it....but Madison Square Garden is one of the most recognized arena's in the world and is actually the busiest arena in the world. It is now renovating it's current location. There is no way that the old Penn Station was going to be re-built. Moynihan station looks to still be a go...and we will have to embrace it.
@snowsorceress - yes exactly... they are doing something... and something surely needs to be done...but it's impossible to rewind history....which is what some ppl are suggesting.
@Amidat Well, it's nice to dream :) Everything is boxes these days, sterile boring boxes. There is no drive to make something as beautiful and practical as possible. Modern and post modern architecture sucks so bad :(
@snowsorceress - I agree... I don't like most modern architecture... but to build it the "old way" is mostly too expensive. That's why I think it's a good idea to use the old post office. they are basically renovating it... but something like that would be too expensive to build from the ground up now... the stones aren't as easy to get and the craftsmanship would take (if you can get it) would sure be too much money.
@Amidat Definitely! At least they're using the same architecture! What I'm excited about is that all the NJ Transit trains will be in Moynihan station so that's where I'll be :D I'm just a bit nervous about their talk of 1,000's of square feet of retail space. Yechh!!!! Don't ruin the good idea with chain stores PLEASE!
@snowsorceress - well the rent from those retail stores is what helps pay for the maintenance of the stations... but yeah - I hope it's not to many "chain stores". Well I take it you take NJ Transit..?? What do you think of Christie killing the tunnel?
@Amidat Unfortunately true. Chains are so ugly though :P Christie was right, I don't care how nice or beautiful it is, tell me how we're going to pay for it - the one thing I agree with him on. Everyone wanted the tunnel but NJ was the one that got stuck with the bill. :P Maybe the NJ Transit and PATH should take some of the profits they make on hiking the fees and build the tunnel.
Another disgrace of a different sort is the fact that the West Side Highway was never rebuilt I remember at the time it collapsed and was closed there were going ot be federal funds to rebuid it but Lindsey wanted the money for mass transit which made sense but Congress stated it was a new West Side Highway or nothing Lindsey called their bluff and was astonished that they meant what they said so New York got neither Now going down the west side is full of traffic lights and it takes forever
@elamite66 - the lights just need to be adjusted to allow for better flow... but certainly it looks better than if there was another super-highway built.
@Amidat well maybe you're right and I'm no fan of superhighways at least no more new ones but I cen remember as a kid when the old elevated west side highway and traffic flowed without stop to the Battery in no time and through traffic didn't interfere the congestion on the city streets Of course that's not the loss Penn Station was I guess I just don't like change
Tearing down Penn Station was a disgrace, I went through it while it was being torn down with scaffolding covering everything the new Penn Station was claustraphobic like a huge over sized subway station. I thought that the old GPO across the streets from Penn Station which was planned by the same architects Was this ever done? If anyone know let me know PLEASE?!!!!
Rebuild the old Penn Station according to the original plans of McKim, Mead and White. Contemporary architecture is ghastly and it's ruined too much of New York already.
I know it's Irrelevant to the New Penn Station, but thinking of the destruction of the old stuff, I'm suprised that 30th Street Station in Phila hasn't been demolished yet. It's been around ever since the start of the actual Pennsylvanian Railroad.
DON'T LET this become like Union Station in DC. The station itself is now a (largely under-used) shopping mall, while those of us actually taking a train use a cramped, gloomy transit shed in the back. Weekends see over-crowding and LONG lines with nowhere to wait, while the shopping center in the front, has only a few shoppers.
It would be a cryin' shame if this project were lost. What is the status now, I wonder?
I like @janissary211's comment on rebuilding the old one. Move MSG to the back of the Farley Bld, but let MSG enter from 8th ave. Keep the Post Office entrance just that. Knock down the eyesore that is MSG and make amends for the architectual vandalism of our predecessors.
What I don't get is why the Pennsylvania Railroad didn't offer MSG some of the space above its right of way on the West Side. They didn't have to offer MSG such a sweet deal, like being surrounded by subway lines. The PRR had tons of land over its tracks, but it couldn't use that land? Heck, there are supermarkets and hotels above interstates in Boston, why couldn't the PRR use its existing assets?
I like everyone else say - REBUILD the original! You've got pictures and plans to work from. NYC seems to have a problem with rebuilding. Instead of rebuilding the Twin Towers, we're getting some ugly arse skeleton, same with the train station. :( Oh btw, MSG officials say they're not going anywhere *sigh*
Agree. Why didn't they add some electronic timetables, changed the windows to avoid energy waste and changed the lamps? This would have helped a lot but instead they created an ugly catacomb.
Okay, here's what I don't get -- why not just rebuild Pennsylvania Station according to the original plan (or something close to it)? Move Madison Square Garden into the post office building, or chuck it into the ocean -- that's not the important thing. The new Pennsylvania Station, on the original site, might retain the Baths of Caracalla design, but add a complementary skyscraper as originally contemplated at the turn of the last century. Makes sense to me!
Yes! I agree with you..if they are going to build a NEW station..why not restore what was tragically lost and rebuild Penn station in it's original form!!!! Europe has rebuilt many historic buildings, from scratch, (i.e Christ Saviour Cathedral in Moscow) that were lost to war or political vandalism, I'm sure America could to the same if there was a will to do so!!!!!
MAS needs to stop implying that anything involving moving Madison Square Garden must necessarily be an offensive, ad-laden failure. Sports fans and preservationists can achieve something here together. I ask the Municipal Arts Society to preserve and help build, not obstruct.
This is a step in the right direction- but the Architects and planners need to have the courage to restore a Beaux Arts vision to the space- not an egostical modern "interpretation"- The building needs a sense of place that the ugly trusses and vaults shown in these renderings won't provide. It will preserve the Architectural vision of the Farley building as stated. Misguided "modern" architectire is part of what caused the debacle of Penn Station's destruction. It will take courage.
That pic of an ugly fat-ass in lingerie is so damn symbolic of Madison Square Garden and Penn Station. THROW OUT the Knicks and Rangers, they can chase a basketball anywhere in NYC and REBUILD Penn Station. Give NYC a classy Penn Station.
Darthbelal 4 months ago
Rebuild the original. Demolish MSG. MSG is also the name of a vile additive to foods which leads to various health problems. Similarly for MSG the structure, and eyesore and wound to NYC. Keep the post office, repurpose it if the space is no longer needed by the Postal Service. But Bring back the real Penn Station. Rebuild.
onthe1drop 4 months ago
Yes, rebuild the original! That would be justice.
onthe1drop 4 months ago
Actually, the Post Office they want to convert to the Moynihan Station IS built by Mckim, Mead and White.
dpas2009 7 months ago
@dpas2009 The post office is grand and beautiful, and should be retained and repurposed if the postal facilities move out or are reduced. However, the original Penn Station should still be rebuilt in addition, on the site of Madison Square Garbage.
onthe1drop 4 months ago
I know most of you don't realize it....but Madison Square Garden is one of the most recognized arena's in the world and is actually the busiest arena in the world. It is now renovating it's current location. There is no way that the old Penn Station was going to be re-built. Moynihan station looks to still be a go...and we will have to embrace it.
Amidat 10 months ago
@Amidat At least they're looking to do something about the congestion. There is so many people in there, you can barely move at peak time.
snowsorceress 7 months ago
@snowsorceress - yes exactly... they are doing something... and something surely needs to be done...but it's impossible to rewind history....which is what some ppl are suggesting.
Amidat 7 months ago
@Amidat Well, it's nice to dream :) Everything is boxes these days, sterile boring boxes. There is no drive to make something as beautiful and practical as possible. Modern and post modern architecture sucks so bad :(
snowsorceress 7 months ago
@snowsorceress - I agree... I don't like most modern architecture... but to build it the "old way" is mostly too expensive. That's why I think it's a good idea to use the old post office. they are basically renovating it... but something like that would be too expensive to build from the ground up now... the stones aren't as easy to get and the craftsmanship would take (if you can get it) would sure be too much money.
Amidat 7 months ago
@Amidat A serious gasoline tax would be enough to fund this project and many more public works.
onthe1drop 4 months ago
@onthe1drop - yeah but I doubt that will happen anytime soon in the US.
Amidat 4 months ago
@Amidat Definitely! At least they're using the same architecture! What I'm excited about is that all the NJ Transit trains will be in Moynihan station so that's where I'll be :D I'm just a bit nervous about their talk of 1,000's of square feet of retail space. Yechh!!!! Don't ruin the good idea with chain stores PLEASE!
snowsorceress 7 months ago
@snowsorceress - well the rent from those retail stores is what helps pay for the maintenance of the stations... but yeah - I hope it's not to many "chain stores". Well I take it you take NJ Transit..?? What do you think of Christie killing the tunnel?
Amidat 7 months ago
@Amidat Unfortunately true. Chains are so ugly though :P Christie was right, I don't care how nice or beautiful it is, tell me how we're going to pay for it - the one thing I agree with him on. Everyone wanted the tunnel but NJ was the one that got stuck with the bill. :P Maybe the NJ Transit and PATH should take some of the profits they make on hiking the fees and build the tunnel.
snowsorceress 7 months ago
Another disgrace of a different sort is the fact that the West Side Highway was never rebuilt I remember at the time it collapsed and was closed there were going ot be federal funds to rebuid it but Lindsey wanted the money for mass transit which made sense but Congress stated it was a new West Side Highway or nothing Lindsey called their bluff and was astonished that they meant what they said so New York got neither Now going down the west side is full of traffic lights and it takes forever
elamite66 1 year ago
@elamite66 - the lights just need to be adjusted to allow for better flow... but certainly it looks better than if there was another super-highway built.
Amidat 7 months ago
@Amidat well maybe you're right and I'm no fan of superhighways at least no more new ones but I cen remember as a kid when the old elevated west side highway and traffic flowed without stop to the Battery in no time and through traffic didn't interfere the congestion on the city streets Of course that's not the loss Penn Station was I guess I just don't like change
elamite66 7 months ago
@elamite66 - i got ya... but traffic would be much worse now.
Amidat 7 months ago
Tearing down Penn Station was a disgrace, I went through it while it was being torn down with scaffolding covering everything the new Penn Station was claustraphobic like a huge over sized subway station. I thought that the old GPO across the streets from Penn Station which was planned by the same architects Was this ever done? If anyone know let me know PLEASE?!!!!
elamite66 1 year ago
Rebuild the old Penn Station according to the original plans of McKim, Mead and White. Contemporary architecture is ghastly and it's ruined too much of New York already.
panzano1 1 year ago 2
I know it's Irrelevant to the New Penn Station, but thinking of the destruction of the old stuff, I'm suprised that 30th Street Station in Phila hasn't been demolished yet. It's been around ever since the start of the actual Pennsylvanian Railroad.
Acela1a 1 year ago
@Acela1a well I guess Philedelphia fared better than New York unfortunatley for New York
elamite66 1 year ago
DON'T LET this become like Union Station in DC. The station itself is now a (largely under-used) shopping mall, while those of us actually taking a train use a cramped, gloomy transit shed in the back. Weekends see over-crowding and LONG lines with nowhere to wait, while the shopping center in the front, has only a few shoppers.
MarkinDC 1 year ago
It would be a cryin' shame if this project were lost. What is the status now, I wonder?
I like @janissary211's comment on rebuilding the old one. Move MSG to the back of the Farley Bld, but let MSG enter from 8th ave. Keep the Post Office entrance just that. Knock down the eyesore that is MSG and make amends for the architectual vandalism of our predecessors.
oinonio 1 year ago
I heard. Well, the Mass Transit Tunnel under the Hudson River and the Penn Station Expansion, is definitely going to arrive in 2017.
NHRHS2010 2 years ago
What I don't get is why the Pennsylvania Railroad didn't offer MSG some of the space above its right of way on the West Side. They didn't have to offer MSG such a sweet deal, like being surrounded by subway lines. The PRR had tons of land over its tracks, but it couldn't use that land? Heck, there are supermarkets and hotels above interstates in Boston, why couldn't the PRR use its existing assets?
saginawdavis 2 years ago
I like everyone else say - REBUILD the original! You've got pictures and plans to work from. NYC seems to have a problem with rebuilding. Instead of rebuilding the Twin Towers, we're getting some ugly arse skeleton, same with the train station. :( Oh btw, MSG officials say they're not going anywhere *sigh*
snowsorceress 2 years ago 12
@snowsorceress It's a nice idea but It'll never happen
elamite66 1 year ago
@snowsorceress
I agree, Every time I see pictures of old penn station I get sick to my stomach that its gone.,
My idea is this:
1. Move MSG somewhere else
2. Use the post office as a temporary station
3. demolish the current penn station, msg, penn plaza block
4. Rebuild the original penn station from the original blueprints
5. Profit
RattlerX5150 7 months ago
rebuild the original torn down Penn Station with the McKim, Mead, And White plans or do nothing....That is what the injustice deserves, no less.
SanLUZARDO 2 years ago 18
Agree. Why didn't they add some electronic timetables, changed the windows to avoid energy waste and changed the lamps? This would have helped a lot but instead they created an ugly catacomb.
TrickyEmu 2 years ago
@SanLUZARDO couldn't agree more....
MarkinDC 1 year ago
@SanLUZARDO
no more ipod architecture!
captinseperoth 1 year ago
Okay, here's what I don't get -- why not just rebuild Pennsylvania Station according to the original plan (or something close to it)? Move Madison Square Garden into the post office building, or chuck it into the ocean -- that's not the important thing. The new Pennsylvania Station, on the original site, might retain the Baths of Caracalla design, but add a complementary skyscraper as originally contemplated at the turn of the last century. Makes sense to me!
eriks74342 3 years ago 5
Yes! I agree with you..if they are going to build a NEW station..why not restore what was tragically lost and rebuild Penn station in it's original form!!!! Europe has rebuilt many historic buildings, from scratch, (i.e Christ Saviour Cathedral in Moscow) that were lost to war or political vandalism, I'm sure America could to the same if there was a will to do so!!!!!
bizbutton 3 years ago 5
I agree too, shove MSG off of the station, it was a criminal act to destroy the original station!
mugshotesp 2 years ago 4
Wow, this will be great. I can't wait until the Moynihan Station project is completed!
NHRHS2010 3 years ago
LOLWUT
OnlyJasonere 3 years ago
MAS needs to stop implying that anything involving moving Madison Square Garden must necessarily be an offensive, ad-laden failure. Sports fans and preservationists can achieve something here together. I ask the Municipal Arts Society to preserve and help build, not obstruct.
dkatzism 4 years ago
This is a step in the right direction- but the Architects and planners need to have the courage to restore a Beaux Arts vision to the space- not an egostical modern "interpretation"- The building needs a sense of place that the ugly trusses and vaults shown in these renderings won't provide. It will preserve the Architectural vision of the Farley building as stated. Misguided "modern" architectire is part of what caused the debacle of Penn Station's destruction. It will take courage.
penjim 4 years ago 4