All this is moot ive been a chevy guy all my life till the last 4 I owned lived in the shop . The new ZLi is apples and oranges comparison to the boss302 LS just look at the 2 - the Camaro is not ugly but not great - the boss looks way better ( personal opinion) and ill bet is more reliable. Cant even see out of the Camaro properly. Just bought a boss 302 Lagiuna Seca - only 750 of them. Come down to the bottom line its the driver that makes the laptime. Ill never buy a Camarobama.
@Greendude33 LOL you zl1 dumbasses are so fucking hilarious, I guess you're just mad that the new gt500 has 670hp and weighs less than the shitty zl1 with 580hp LOL thats fucking embarrassing
@TheBeaverguy21 Yeah I know, but considering the fact that this car was built for this track, and the ferrari and lexus aren't, I just think that Ford probably should have put more juice under the hood if they really wanted to focus the car on such a track as this.;D.
@hahaha13822: This car is not meant to compete with 300 thousand dollar supercars. Its a 40k muscle car. Its meant to compete with the Camaros and the BMW M3. In which it has already beaten both.
@hahaha13822: Thats why there is the new Ford mustang GT500 coming out in May with 650HP and a real world tested top speed of 202 mph. The first front and back seat american muscle car, to come straight from the factory with that kinda top speed. On top of that, its gonna have the boss 302's suspension, launch control, adjustable suspension settings, and adjustable dampers. :)
@gmrtg1414: If it does cost more. Its not gonna be that much more. The latest rumor is 60k. Car and Driver has already tested the car. Unfortunately there are no vids of it, you gotta buy the magazine. But anyway, they actually did 202 mph in it.
@Greendude33: Thats no surprise considering it has 136HP more than the boss. Secondly, the new GT500 is not a HP bump. According to Car and Driver, the car has increased downforce, better aerodynamics, adjustable dampers, adjustable trac control settings, launch control, and stickier tries vs. the previous GT 500. If the Camaro fanboys think that the new GT500 is just a HP bump. Then they will be sadly mistaken come this May, when the GT500 reaches dealerships.
@V8Supercar1 The ZL1 is recording better numbers right now than 800 HP Supernsnakes that cost over 100k... With the extra 50 grand under the hood and chassis they still manage to be quite slow givent their power... Hence the live axle which the new GT500 will still have...
Unless you're a drag strip only type of guy you'll be very unhappy on how the GT500 compares
@Greendude33: The problem with that logic is. You cant compare the current supersnakes to the new GT500. Why? Because the new GT500 suspension is upgraded even though its still a live rear axle. Of course the boss is faster around a track than the old GT500. The new GT500 literally has the boss's suspension now, with a torsen limited slip diff, an even stiffer suspension in sport mode, better tires and better aerodynamics. comparing the previous GT500 is pointless.
@Greendude33: With all that said. There is no way the ZL1 is gonna be quicker aroud most tracks vs. the new GT500. The new GT500 has a significant power to weight ratio advantage over the ZL1. 670HP with 3850lbs of weight, vs. 580HP with 4,100lbs of weight. Yes the GT500 actually has 670HP. If the mustang GT 5.0 is quicker around most tracks than the SS. There is no reason why the new GT500 wont be quicker than the ZL1.
@V8Supercar1 The Boss 302 is faster around a track than the GT500 so if the ZL1 dusts the Boss then the less poised GT500 will get dusted even worse...
GM is not at all worried about any mustang with a live axle now that the ZL1 is about to debut
@Greendude33: If IRS is such a big deal and such a deciding factor. Then why is it that the mustang GT is quicker than the SS around the willow springs and the VIR?? Why because it has a slightly better power to weight ratio. Now the new GT500 is gonna have a significant power to weight ratio advantage over the ZL1.
@V8Supercar1 The ZL1 has the most advanced chassis and suspension components any pony car has had in the entire history of the segment... The ZL1 blew away the most track capable Mustang at VIR, Nothing has changed from the 2012 GT500 to the 2013 other than the engine, it still is plagued by a live axle that will make it seem like it has far less HP.... lighter GT's and Bosses may have hung with a plain Zeta SS but a ZL1 is closer to being a Corvette/CTS-V. Whole different ballgame
@V8Supercar1 The GT500's live axle higher center of gravity and worse weight distribution will be incapable of matching the ZL1 through the bends and that gap will only become more apparent the more technical the corner is. The New GT500 will not improve it's lap by more than 12 seconds at VIR with the minor adjustments let's be honest here and not fanboyish...
The old pony car formula of just increasing power to win won't work any more...
@V8Supercar1 At VIR the ZL1 ran a 2:52.3 which is 10 seconds faster than the Boss 302 LS with interior scaffolding and no rear seats...
Ford ran a 2013 GT500 at VIR and got a 2.58.0 lap time which is only two-tenths faster than the 2006 Corvette Z06 that had the bad tires and no MR. It's no wonder these times were never released to the mainstream press... I doubt they'll shave 6 seconds off that time no matter how hard they try.
@V8Supercar1 The adjustments are so minor only people like you would call them anything but.... They obviously didn't do much help for the 2013 GT500 at VIR Ford won't even publish the time VIR recorded SVT getting there. Regardless everyone outside of Ford saw it still was 6 seconds behind the ZL1...
Not only that but Ford has avoided the Nurburgring like the plague, possibly b/c the gap would be larger than 6 seconds there
@Greendude33: You call increasing downforce, increasing aerodynamics, adding launch control, adding adjustable dampening with tra control settings minor???? The GT500 is not out yet. Whos to say they wont do anymore laps anywhere else?
@V8Supercar1 The adjustments are minor compared to what GM did to the ZL1 and even more minor compared to what Mustang tuners like Roush and Saleen do to their Mustangs...
Ford is still hesistant to publlish anything b/c they cannot close the gap... They can't be too happy with their leaked 2013 VIR time.
@Greendude33: "The adjustments are minor compared to what GM did to the ZL1 and even more minor compared to what Mustang tuners like Roush and Saleen do to their Mustangs..."
It just doesn't matter. The new GT500 weighs a whopping 250lbs less than the ZL1 and it also have 90 more HP. In a standing mile race. The ZL1 doesn't stand a chance.
@V8Supercar1 4200 pound CTS-V sedans still beat GT500's around tracks... Not only that but so far the 2013 GT500 is 6 seconds slower than the ZL1 at VIR, Ford is busting their ass as we speak trying to close the gap. Not only that but no one expects to see any Mustang on legal DOT tires to get under 4 seconds to 60 even a 800HP Snake with more money under the chassis cannot pull a a sub 4 second time meeanwhile a stock Caddy CTS-V will do 3.9 secs easy b/c the power isnt spun away
@Greendude33: My question is. Where are you getting this info from about the 2013 GT500 already lapping the VIR?. Because I'm looking all over the internet now and I can't find anything. Secondly, comparing the CTSV to the old GT500 is irrelevant when consider the suspension, aerodynamics and downforce upgrades the new GT500 has. The new GT500 is also using stickier tires over the old one.
@V8Supercar1 FastestlapsDOTcom recorded SVT running the new GT500 at VIR and it posted a 2.58.0 so far... Which is 6 secs behind what GM got out of their ZL1.
Ford is working as we speak to close the gap while GM is popping champagne bottles, GM certainly isnt the ones sweating....
Ford has been even more quiet about their Nurburgring runs, probably b/c the gap is larger there...
@V8Supercar1 Ford hasnt realeased any 2013 model to the press yet... They're still doing manufactuer testing... So that's how I know that's a fabricated time... A 2012 Supersnake with rollout still only does 4.1 secs to 60 so a cheaper GT500 with less power and less money under the chassis won't do almost half a second better not with those skinny tires and live axle.
Im anxious to see if the ZL1 gets the ceramic brake and PS2 tires option from the Vette.
@Greendude33: "A 2012 Supersnake with rollout still only does 4.1 secs to 60 so a cheaper GT500 with less power and less money"
You see you keep bring up the "Supersnake". The supersnake just does not have the downforce or the tires that the new GT500 has. So are you telling me that increasing a car's downforce is not gonna affect the car's 0 to 60 times??
@V8Supercar1 Do you have any idead what Shelby does to a regular GT500 to make it a supersnake? They don't dump all 50 grand into the engine, they do extensive chassis and suspension tuning as well as well as improve downforce. Yet it still posts similar times to a stock Grandsport Corvette.
Regardless downforce is for help in corners and top speed there is not enough air pressure from 0-60 to make any difference in tire grip.
@Greendude33: Yes I do.But they have never been able to get the mustang to put the power to the ground. But according to C&D i will write you a quote. "The suspension does a remarkable job of keeping the tires planted coming off elevation changes, and there is no perceptible body roll" Thats a quote directly out of C&D magazine.
@V8Supercar1 Car and driver has not yet driven a 2013 GT500, no auto review magazine has yet either b/c Ford has not released it yet... The changes have already been done to current Boss 302 Mustangs there's nothing radically changed that will improve its performance to 60 and around corners.
I expect the ZL1 vs 13' GT500 1/4 mile to be one of the closest in the Rivalry's history while I expect the ZL1 to have all the advantages in the corners.
@Greendude33: Yes they have. Like I said their results is in their March edition of their magazine. I'll tell you what. I actually found the whole article with their results and everything online. since I cant post links here I'll leave it on your channel.
@V8Supercar1 There also is not a single video of any automotive review magazine reviewing any 2013 model year Mustang. So far the first battlefield was at VIR and SVT's team could not get the 2013 GT500 close to GM's ZL1 lap time. I also am interested to see if Ford ever releases a Nurburgring lap time which I doubt as the Ring is a very hostile environment for a live axle.
The GT500 like all GT500's will have problems hooking up in 1st and 2nd gear so it will be close on the 1/4
@Greendude33: i'm aware of that. They probably don't have any videos of it because the car is not officially released yet. But did you read the article? I agree that it will be close on the 1/4 mile. 1/4 is such a short distance anyway. Ford better release some kinda Nurburgring time for the GT500. They already released photos of the GT500 with a nurburgring badge on the back of it. It would be a PR disaster if they dont officially do a lap run.
@V8Supercar1 It's nothing against the Mustang it's just that the Nurburgring is a very unforgiving track where the ZL1 suspension will pay dividends, I don't see any Mustang beating the ZL1 on any track. Even if pros are placed in both cars the ZL1 still has the more track oriented chassis.
If anything the battle isnt fair for Ford as the Camaro has two performance divisions above it to borrow technology and know how from.
@Greendude33: One thing I can tell you. Its really interesting comparing the ZL1 ring lap with the CTSV. ZL1 = 580HP/4100lbs of weight, CTSV 556HP4200lbs . And the ZL1 is a whopping 18 secs faster. Just looking at that comparison right there really does show that Ford have a tough fight on their hands. They may just have to suck it up and bring back the cobra mustangs, since they actually had IRS. But we will see. Things will be interesting when MT get their hands on the cars.
@Greendude33: If I was Ford. I would just suck it up. Hire a pro driver to do the lap time at the ring. (Maybe Randy Pobst.) Hes got Nurburgring experience. Keep Tanner foust far away. He hates domestics anyway. But anyway, get a pro driver, and just let the chips fall where they may.
@Greendude33: I heard this same exact arguement from the Camaro fanboys just before the GT 5.0 was released. All I heard was the camaro have the better suspension because of IRS. Ford may not have MRC, but atleast they have electronic dampening and the power to weight ratio advantage. My question is. If the mustangs suspension is so bad and dated, then why isn't the Camaro SS with its IRS and 13 more HP faster than the GT 5.0?????
@V8Supercar1 The ZL1 is not an SS, GM went to the Corvette and V divisions for know how this time, this is far from a regular Zeta chassis and that was reflected at the first track the ZL1 ran against the Mustangs beating the 2012 Boss 302 LS by 10 secs and the 2013 GT500 by 6 secs.
Once the Camaro gets the 3300lb Alpha chassis the gaps will only grow. I'd like to see Ford make a RWD IRS chassis weigh close to that.
@Greendude33: Secondly. I'll write you some performance numbers that Car And Driver magaizne got in both cars. ZL1 0 to 60 in 4.1 secs ,0 to 100 in 8.9 secs., 1/4 mile 12.3 top speed 180 mph (GT500 3.7 secs 0 to 100 8.7 secs 1/4 mile 11.7 secs. top speed 202 mph) As for as 1/4 mile and standing mile racing, the ZL1 is just not getting the job done.
No source has reviewed those figures yet... We just have manufacturer lap times and so far the GT500 is slower than the ZL1... The 4200lb CTS-V sedan does 0-60 in 3.9 secs and the 1/4 mile in 12.2 secs while the best Supernsnakes barely get under 12 secs so I call BS on those fabricated figures... That I cannot confirm from C&D
@Greendude33: lol Lie about what? I'm holding the magazine in my hand as we speak. Yes, car and driver has already tested both cars. If you don't believe me. All you gotta do is go out and buy the march edition of C&D. And like I told you before, the Supersnakes don't have the suspension and the downforce that the new GT500 has. Why is it so hard to believe that? How is it that you think the only thing Ford did was up the HP???
Gotta love the Boss' muscle, but after driving one for a day, I'll still sacrifice the extra HP for the GT. It's tuning setup is phenominal, but the stripped-down interior isn't for me. It won't happen anytime soon, if ever, but I'll hold out for the return of the 429.
@greendude33 Dude, get a life and stop trolling the comments. You've got literally almost a hundred comments on this thread. I flagged every single one of them for spam because that is frankly what you are doing.
All you Chevy Idiots should be proud, Chevy's just become the worlds largest car company again, in terms of cars sold, overtaking Toyota, but not before defaulting on 77.5 billion in debt and a 49.5 billion Government Bailout, for which the government still owns 26.5% in stock. Chevy also reported a huge 7 billion $ profit, or less than 1/3 what Ford reported in 2011. Ford's not interested in the sales crown, Ford wants more features and a higher profit margin, and they're succeeding.
Vettes save weight (and cost) with the smc "fiberglass" front end, and rear panels. It really feels cheap. Chevy's pushrod LS series engine is nothing more than cost savings. Compare a Boss motor dyno chart vs a Vette's and I'm sure anyone would see the Boss 302 motor makes more power throughout a greater portion of the powerband than the Vette's pushrod LS V8.
Put a plastic front end on a Boss and the track might not give the Vette the advantage.
Let me attempt to bring some reason to this fanboy debate. To call a Boss 302 "just another Mustang" is stupid. To think it could beat a C6 Vette on a race track is equally stupid. The Boss was designed to beat the M3 @ Laguna Seca. It does. The Vette was designed to run down Ferraris and Porches. It does.
The Boss will beat anything wearing a bow tie short of a Vette. It's not just a pony car. It's a bad ass road car.
@Greendude33 Sure 50/50 static/stationary weight dist is great for spirted driving but when standing on the brakes and trying to turn, do you think it stays 50/50? You give plenty of reasons why the GS should be faster than the Boss and I agree it should, at all tracks but clearly it's not and clearly relys on WOT opportunities and not so many hairpins because of its better power to weight. Nevermind huge tire/brake, balance and center of gravity, a Boss with equal power to weight will
@acs4llc The Corvette has lower moving interia that a Mustang under heavy braking applications does the Boss has nearly all of its weight on the front tires, more so than a Corvette. When you combine that light rear end and enter a turn, the Boss is far more likely to oversteer than a Corvette. The Grandsport is faster than Boss at any track end of story stop trying to pretend the Boss has ever ran against any Corvette other than the one time at VIR.
@Greendude33 no doubt beat the GS everywhere including VIR. I've never said the Boss is world class or anything like that but all I'm saying is neither is the GS. On paper, sure but in reality not so much. Considering its huge brakes/tires, weight dist, center of gravity, double wishbones, space frame etc, etc, it's really pathetic.
@acs4llc First of all the Corvette has always been in competition with Porsches & Ferraris and not to mention the C6 Vette is now 7 years old that is still leading the class in lap times even beating and remaining ultra competitive with the newest supercars from Europe just barely being released and still managing to beat over 95% of the best Euro cars on the world famous Nurburgring. C6's still compete with the newest imagine what the C7 will do. Let pony cars play with pony cars...
@Greendude33 You're talking about the ZR1 taking on the world and for sure the GS is the low hanging fruit but without superior power to weight, the GS would lose to the Boss without a doubt on any track. Check the 'sector graphs'. Back 2 back, side by side or whatever pleases you and C&D ran them on separate occasions. Splitting hairs of course but no they didn't run them against each other so your argument is as invalid as anyone elses.
Next C7? Who the heck knows? Next GT500,we already know.
It's no disgrace for a 3600 lb 4 seater with a 5.0L to lose to a 3300 lb 2 seater with a 6.2L. It's no disgrace losing to a car that costs a lot more money. The Boss Mustang has great HP potential for not much money, a new Exhaust/ TB/CAI/Tune, has shown a 60 whp gain, add the Vettes cheater tires at the track and you have my style. What's amazing is both Boss Mustangs are faster to 60 and the 1/4 bone stock than an 08 Z51 Vette, FASTESTLAPS
@Greendude33 Ford's done something this year they haven't done since 1970 and that's to increase their market share 3 years in a row, and analysts believe Ford's going to stretch their winning streak to 4 this year.
My source is Fastestlaps sorry to disappoint you, and Vette sales are off by a whopping 2/3s since 08 alone and GM as a whole is off by 3/5s since 2000. What remains are the Chevy die hards, Chevy Runs Deep, into the red that is.
@1vdn992 "Cheater tires" is just something else angry fan boys have to cry like little children about. Go complain about Dodge, Porsche, Audi, BMW, Ferrari, etc using them.
@1vdn992 Boss L/S is a 2 seater dumb fuck. WOW you really are that dumb what next 4000 a year for insurance...wait you already said that. And the biggest troll award goes to YOU shocking Boss L/S 2 seater DF
@gmrtg1414 In Edmunds performance testing, a base Coupe went from zero to 60 mph in 4.5 seconds. With the optional dual-mode exhaust that adds another 6 hp and 4 lb-ft, a Grand Sport shaved 0.1 second off that time and sounded even cooler doing it.
LMAO a 2011 Mustang GT 6M opt 3.73s can win a stoplight race against either one of these dogs for 1/2 the price.
@gmrtg1414 I spoke of the 4 seat, not incorrect, and then I included both Mustangs, again not incorrect. Do you speak some funny kinda english, or is it your reading and comprehension aren't up to snuff. I passed college english at my local college btw.
@1vdn992 Anyone who thinks vette insurance is 4000 dollars is not that bright. Just the facts you really didnt think anyone would buy that bullshit did you? The video we are watching is of a Boss L/S and using your bullshit comparison the 2 seater just got its ass handed to it by a 4 seat heavy pig sad....
@1vdn992 The Mustang has never been a threat to the Corvette... The fact that a base C6 Z51 beat the Boss and GT500 at the only head to head battle at VIR is proof. People who are not blind fanboys will see the facts that no heavy pony car competes with a Coirvette. End of
Both the base Vette and Grand Sport feature a 6.2-liter V8 that cranks out 430 hp and 424 pound-feet of torque. All Corvettes come standard with a six-speed manual transmission and launch control. A six-speed automatic is available on all but the high-performance models.
@Greendude33 until you drive both cars like I have and feel the difference you can't say shit. Ask any corvette driver, they will tell you it's hard to keep those cars strait... The grand sport at the auto x event that I go to was a mere 2 seconds slower than me on each run, he couldn't beat my time all day
@Greendude33 I've driven my friends c6 an he drive my boss and he and I both agree my car handled better and was more powerful. What car do you drive and have you ever driven both the vette and the boss? Because I have... I go to Nola Motorsports park on the weekends and I can tell you there are no stock vettes touching my boss unless it's a zo6 or a zr1
@Greendude33 any baseline vette or grand sport with an average to good driver will have slower lap times than an average to good driver in a boss because it's an easier car to drive.
@dtdeb99 No give any driver with decent skill both a Corvette and a Boss 302 and they will set a faster lap time in the Vette. The Boss 302 test is not an accurate test that follows the rules of the scientific method, it had too many variables and therefore the results were skewed and innaccurate.
The Corvette is perfectly balanced at 50/50, lower center of gravity and stiffer chassis and more advanced suspension system, the Boss is just a tightened GT it is still a pony car.
@Greendude33 sorry to brake it to you buddy but if you have ever driven a vette, it's hard to get them to go around corners.. They are faster cars but the rear end is light and you need skills to really get the vettes full potential. Not everybody that owns vettes knows how to drive them
@dtdeb99 No you have never driven any Corvette, they have a perfect 50/50 weight distribution which means there is any equal amount of weight on the rear tires as the front tires. A Boss 302 has a 56/44 distribution so actually the Boss has the lighter rear end in fact. The Boss 302 will be thrown off balance far easier than a Vette with the higher center of gravity, front end weight bias, and the non independent rear wheels.
@Greendude33 I beat regular corvettes and grand sports all the time in my boss 302.. I only get them buy two or three car lengths though but the grand sport an the boss are so close it depends on the drivers
@dtdeb99 Don't lie to me I am not stupid... I respect the Boss 302 and it is one of the best Pony Cars ever made, but it is still just a pony car and not a sports car. It cannot hang with Corvettes. Even by the slimmest chance you had a Boss, you would not beat a Corvette unless you have Michael Shumacher like talent which I doubt you do.
@Greendude33 If it takes a pro driver to unlock your Corvette's hidden potential, what good is that to you? If you cannot outrun a damn Boss 302 thru the canyon or at the track...
Corvettes are true sports cars if not a supercars and will win against any Mustang known to man in the court of pubic opinion and that's all Corvette owners need. This is why most Corvettes are base model automatics owned by geezers that just want a particular image. You won't see them in a Mustang no matter how fast.
@acs4llc No a pro driver just reduces the human variable, you cannot compare a Boss lap time that ran on a seperate occasion by a different driver than in the GS. That's an extra variable that skews the results. If a Boss is driven by the same driver as in a GS pro or not, the GS will be faster. I think everyone outside of Mustang die hard fan boys already know the difference between a pony car and a sports car and already know a Mustang vs Vette comparision always ends the same.
@acs4llc Oh so you wanna talk about which Vette model sells best? Well the best selling Mustang is the automatic V6 by females of all ages. According to a University of Detroit study in 2008 with a sample size of 10,000 Mustang owners showed that 80% of the owners were female.
As for the Vette, yes old men have money and alot of Porsche and Ferrari owners are financially stable older men, they buy the Mustangs for their wives and daughters.
@Greendude33 The V6 automatic is a great gift for a girl's sweet 16 but giving her a Boss 302 would be completely asinine and even the GT would be ridiculous. No one is denying base Mustangs are perfect chick's cars and quite a few own GTs but the Boss 302 isn't even available with an auto. Financially stable dudes tied to oxygen tanks will end up at the Chevy dealer.
@Greendude33 The Corvette's specs guarantee it's a better choice for spirited driving but anything can happen when pushed to the limit especially by non pros. 50/50 weight distribution is great when you coast into a turn then gently squeeze the throttle but less of an advantage when you're standing on the brakes going in and WOT exiting. This is also when IRS on super wide low-profiles is less of an advantage.
@acs4llc Oh really is that why at more techical tracks like Virginia International Raceway the Boss 302 LS lost to all Corvette models? From the base Z51 to getting demolished by the Z06 and ZR1. The laps were all conducted by Car & Driver so the different driver variable was eliminated. The Boss is one of the most track capable pony cars ever but it's still not running with any Corvette b/c it's just a Mustang.
@Greendude33 Wasn't it you that said... "YOU CANNOT COMPARE A BOSS LAP TIME THAT RAN ON A SEPARATE OCCASION BY A DIFFERENT DRIVER THAN IN THE GS. THAT'S AN EXTRA VARIABLE THAT SKEWS RESULTS..."? What, now it's OK to cherry pick magazine journos lap times that according to you... "NO ONE CARES ABOUT JOURNALIST LAP TIMES, JOURNALISTS CANNOT PUSH A CAR TO IT'S PEAK PERFORMANCE..." Soooo which is it???
What's wrong with Laguna Seca? Not technical enough for ya? VIR is 1 of the greatest
@acs4llc The Boss lost to all C6 generation Corvettes at VIR for the second time....So I do not see why you would continue to mention it when talking about the Corvette. Laguna Seca has one challenging turn and the Boss has never gone head to head at LS against the Corvette like it did at VIR conducted by C&D. The Mustang does not compare to a Corvette that's not a bad thing b/c its still just a pony car.
Oh and please don't start the childish all caps bullshit, it's so pathetic.
@Greendude33 What, you don't like your words repeated in bold print when you contradict yourself? First you dismiss auto journo's as incompetent/inconsistant until you find a article that favors your point? Btw, how did C&D beat a '10 Mustang GT with a current V6?
C&D showed how closely the Corvette GS and Boss 302 LS cornered thru sectors and noted the GS's advantage was in the straights thanks to its way better power to weight ratio. Given the same power to weight, the Boss 302 LS would've
@Greendude33 absolutely killed the GS, clearly. Nevermind that the Boss runs truck suspension, room for 3 passengers and severely top/nose heavy. That's what's pathetic. On a different track or drivers, a Boss 302 LS may have the advantage, as is. Actually it's already proven that.
Every track should have a cork screw or equivalent. It drops 60 ft in 450 ft of track and tests a car like real canyons. Anything that compresses or unloads a Corvettes rear end on a tight turn further amplifies
@acs4llc The Boss 302 LS FYI does not have 3 more seats you're an idiot they ripped them out and put support beams. I guess you wouldnt know that from playing Gran Turismo huh junior?
Regardless your arguement is stupid... No shit the Corvette has better power/weight ratios and balance that's the entire point of being a sports car and why large pony cars are handicapped against them.
Now calm down no one will discredit the Stang for losing to a Vette. Apples to Oranges
@Greendude33 I didn't say the Boss 302 LS seats 3 passengers but has a 3 passenger body as opposed to a 1 passenger sports car.
Read the article you yourself brought up. It points to how similarly the Boss and Corvette GS corner thru the sectors despite the Boss having less power to weight. Nevermind (static) balance or center of gravity. What does that tell you? What does that tell you about the other tracks where the GS has lost to the Boss? Is it starting to make sense yet? Corvettes perform
@acs4llc First of all power to weight is all about acceleration and braking not cornering... Cornering itself is chassis balance, suspension, downforce and grip. The Corvette lightness means it brakes later into turns, carries more speed through thanks to the balance and suspension and is on the throttle out of the turn quicker. The Boss 302 by design is physically incapable of beating a Corvette around a track when the different driver variable is eliminated.
@Greendude33 Thanks for the history lesson Pops but the point is, if you were to add weight on all the wrong places to the Corvette until you had the same balance, center of gravity as the Boss 302 LS then equalized the brakes, coefficient of drag, downforce, wheelbase and finally the power to weight ratio...you'd have a "sports car" that ran with Focus' and Cobalts instead of Mustangs. That's what you're not getting.Take away all the Corvettes physical advantages over a Boss & you've got what?
@acs4llc That is the most fucking stupid arguement I have ever heard on the Corvette... "Take away all the Corvette physical advantages over a Boss & you've got what?" LMAO Like me saying I could knock out Mike Tyson if they amputated his arms first.
Why would the Corvette want to become an inferior car to match the specs of a Boss? Again that's so asinine. I hope other people read this.
"Boss would be faster than a Corvette if the Corvette wasn't so well designed" Thats your arguement
@Greendude33 No again you're completely missing the point. The Corvette *relies* on its physical advantages to be as fast as it is. Of course it wouldn't be a "Corvette" without them but it also wouldn't be anywhere near as fast either. Wouldn't be anywhere near as fast a Boss either. The Boss 302 already keeps up with the GS as it sits. Now imagine how badly it would destroy the GS with the same balance, center of gravity, brakes, aerodynamics, down force, power to weight etc, etc. and
@Greendude33 Exactly! Finally you're understanding... 4 seconds that it gained in the straightaways. Read the article. Power to weight is the *only* reason it pulled away. Balance, center of gravity, brakes, downforce, aerodynamics, wheelbase gave the GS virtually zero advantage in the turns... except if it didn't have *all* those physical advantages, it would've lost in a badly. Very badly!
@acs4llc The Corvette GS did not get all 4 seconds on the straight that's bullshit and you know it, you're too biased toward the Mustang to understand the technical and physical inferiorities a pony car has compared to a sports car. A four second lead made only on the back straight would be like a ZR1 vs V6 Mustang 1/4 mile. The GS is faster than a Boss 302 on the straights but by four seconds? The Boss lost 4 seconds over the course of the entire race.
@Greendude33 The Corvette GS has minimal advantage in the turns vs the Boss but a huge advantage in the straights where it's all about and power to weight. To quote C&D...
"The Vette cedes 8 hp to the 302 but weighs 316 fewer lbs, giving it the straight-line advantage (144 mph vs 139). Our sector times show how close these 2 are from a cornering standpoint..."
Damn shame that a Corvette GS can hardly corner better than a fat, prerunner like pony car...On other tracks, it loses to the Boss 302!
@acs4llc Do you have any idea how far of a distance a 4 second lead is? The straights at VIR are not that long... You're just desperate to make the Boss sound better than it really is...It would have to be like a ZR1 vs an auto V6 Stang for their to be a 4 second gap on such a small straight.
The Corvette brakes later into turns, carries more speed through and exits faster.
FYI Liar C&D only did lap time comparisions not side by side reviews.
@Greendude33 That's 4 seconds on a 4 mile course and any place you can keep the throttle pegged is 'straight' enough and many of VIR's turns and S' are fast enough for that. It's a drag race at that point and the only reason the GS can completely break away its lighter weight. The GS should handle better, much better than the Boss thru the turns given its weight, center of gravity, bigger tires/brakes, etc, etc. The tighter the turn is, the worse it handles and
@acs4llc The Corvette is the lighter, more balanced car.. The Boss cannot take a corner faster end of story thats physic. The Corvette was faster the entire way through the course, VIR r does not have long enough straights for a 436HP GS to pull that far ahead of a Boss. The power to weight ratio of the two are are too close for that big of lead to be made soley form straight line acceleration.
@Greendude33 You also forget that weight also translates into better braking a Corvette brakes later heading into a turn than a heavier pony car and b/c of the perfect weight distribution its more planted and stable through a high G corner. With a boss the lighter rear end is more susceptible to oversteer and the heavy front end causes more understeer. With a 50/50 balance you minimize the effects of both. The Corvette had the advatange on every square inch of the track.
@Greendude33 No Boss Mustang i've seen tested yet has had TracKey and the Baffles removed.
TCO, True Cost to Own is much higher for the Vette
With all the Vette GS has going for it, it still loses in an acceleration contest to 60 and through the traps to a Boss Mustang, which is the safe race when placing your expensive asset at risk. The Boss has seen 60 whp on the dyno with an exhaust/TB/CAI/Tune and that's enough to embarrass and rip the Vettes butt wide open.
@1vdn992 The Vette is not a pony car and sells in the sports car segement, so logically it has a higher insurance rate than cheaper cars... The Focus is cheaper to insure than a Mustang for the same reasons. The Corvette is only slower than a Boss in your fanboy mind.. A GS does 0-60 on GY F1's in 4.1 secs and 3.9 on regular PS2's. The Boss on factory tires w/ no rollout peaked at 4.3 secs.
Finally I don't give a fuck about Mustang tuning, as any Corvette can be tuned as well.
@Greendude33 the less it pulls away from the Boss. That's clearly illustrated on the sector graphs.
Run them side by side and results could vary slightly either way so I don't see why you're hanging on to that sorry excuse. Run them on a tighter course with not so many WOT opportunities and the GS will lose everytime because its handling sucks balls for what it is.
@acs4llc No if the Boss and Corvette Z51/GS are compared with the variables controlled (primarily the driver) then Corvette will set a faster lap. A Corvette driven by the same driver as a Boss will set the faster time. The are so many factors in the physics of motorsport and HP/weight is just the tip of the iceburg. TG's stig is the only credability of the show, a professional who does multiple laps with only the absolute best lap being recorded. In that type of peak vs peak test the Vette wins
@1vdn992 I thought the last parts of your comment was hilarious... How does a Corvette esp the GS ride like a truck with ultra high tech Magnetic Dampers and double wishbones in comparision to a Stang live axle which is literally also used on trucks. Twitchty handling? The Vette has a 50/50 weight balance and lower center of mass in comparision to the Stang's heavy front end inducing more understeer and lighter rear end being more susceptible to oversteer.
@Greendude33 How the heck can the Boss be suseptible to 'both' under and oversteer simultaniously? If it did, wouldn't that make it completely neutral in corners? Sure looks like it does in fact. You're right, the GS should be faster than the Boss thru the turns. on paper at least. Much, much faster actually but in reality, not so much. On some tracks, not at all...
Corvettes are well known for their twitchy, snappy antics and it's frustrating for fanbois that it doesn't show up on spec sheets,
@acs4llc It's a shock how little you know. Never did I say it was simultanoeous, having too much weight in the front of the car causes an unblanced torsional reaction that effects the lateral acceleration of a car. You will never see race cars with a substansial front end weight balance because of this. 50/50 is the ideal distribution for front engined RWD cars and 40/60 for mid engined RWD cars never is a front end bias ideal.
@acs4llc Now on oversteer, all RWD cars are susceptible to oversteer however in a Corvette with a rear end that weighs the same as the front it is less prevalent than in a Boss with a lighter rear end that will break lose with inccorect throttle management. The Corvette with a 50/50 balance reduces all these effects by equalizing the car's mass throughout the chassis which reduces rolling intertia and transfer of mass through high G corners.
@Greendude33 brochures, diagrams or schematics, I get that. You're proof of that. If myself and the others are wrong, what possible explanation do you have for why the GS is so damn slow for what it's made of or how it should perform according to its specs? It loses to a car that's an F-150 and a sports car 'hybrid'... Sorry but it's true. Either way it doesn't matter 'why' it doesn't live up to expectations, it just doesn't.
@acs4llc The laws of physics grants superiority to the Corvette. This has nothing to do with brandnames. A Boss physically cannot match a Corvette's peak performance a Boss with a 56/44 distribution and higher center of mass physically cannot take a corner like a Corvette. The forces invloved prohibit a Boss from being able to match the Corvette's peak capabilites in the turns. The only variable that would skew this is the driver variable which must be consistant to be accurate.
@acs4llc No C6 Corvette has ever lost to a Boss that's bullshit created on the forums by fanboys like yourself. You can only mention non accurate test runs with inconsistant variables that do not create valid results. There has been literally one official track comparision and that's at VIR where the Boss is slower than all C6 midels. If anyone dumb enough to not already know that Corvettes are faster than Stangs ran a consistant Boss vs Vette test like C&D, then the Boss will lose.
@Greendude33 if you don't understand the 'concept', you're simply being difficult (or dense) and we can just let it go at that. Either way it's not a problem. No I'm 33 but was refering to your history lesson.
@Greendude33 best on paper and rely on power instead of finesse. It may look good but becomes clumsy when pushed too hard. Equalize the power and it'll fall far behind a Boss 302 with or without a backseat.
@acs4llc The Corvette does not need a backseat that's asinine, it was desinged to be a two seater coupe since 1953... The Mustang was intially supposed to be a docile Ford Falcon family car. Hence the different formulas. The Corvette was never designed to carry your family cross country if you want passenger carrying ability buy a minivan get real. Dumb arguement no one races competitively with passegers outside of WRC and thats still only one passenger.
@acs4llc I don't need to argue with an idiot who sounds too young to drive in the first place...
Final closing statements... No Mustang went head to head agaisnt any Vette at Laguna Seca where it did such as at VIR it lost to all Corvette models.
"If the boss weighed the same as a GS" LMAO what a pathetic arguement... Point is that no Mustang compares to a Corvette. Go play with the other pony cars.
@Greendude33 Wasn't it you that said... "YOU CANNOT COMPARE A BOSS LAP TIME THAT RAN ON A SEPARATE OCCASION BY A DIFFERENT DRIVER THAN IN THE GS. THAT'S A VARIABLE THAT SKEWS RESULTS..."? What, now it's OK to cherry pick magazine journo's lap times that according to you... "NO ONE CARES ABOUT JOURNALIST LAP TIMES, JOURNALISTS CANNOT PUSH A CAR TO IT'S PEAK PERFORMANCE..." Soooo which is it???
What's wrong with Laguna Seca? Not technical enough for ya? VIR is 1 of the greatest
The GT has top speed though. But to be fair, the GT is a bit older (and with technology advancement these days, it's really old). I love them both either way
All this is moot ive been a chevy guy all my life till the last 4 I owned lived in the shop . The new ZLi is apples and oranges comparison to the boss302 LS just look at the 2 - the Camaro is not ugly but not great - the boss looks way better ( personal opinion) and ill bet is more reliable. Cant even see out of the Camaro properly. Just bought a boss 302 Lagiuna Seca - only 750 of them. Come down to the bottom line its the driver that makes the laptime. Ill never buy a Camarobama.
vere861 23 hours ago
Downforce is very weak at 60 mph
Greendude33 1 week ago
*idea
Greendude33 1 week ago
hahaha. Most track focused mustang and it still loses to the z06 by like 7 seconds!
MrTmel123 1 week ago
To all the Mustang fanboys.... The Camaro ZL1 just anhilated the Boss 302 at VIR it wasnt even close
Greendude33 1 week ago
@Greendude33 LOL you zl1 dumbasses are so fucking hilarious, I guess you're just mad that the new gt500 has 670hp and weighs less than the shitty zl1 with 580hp LOL thats fucking embarrassing
HottestGuyOnInternet 5 days ago
all done with a solid rear axle suck it.
highflyer4 1 week ago
there are very few Mustangs I would take a second look at but this is one of them. Just give it a new paint job lol
jekyllnhydebaby 1 week ago
its slower around the track than a ferrari 458 italia and a lexus lfa
hahaha13822 2 weeks ago
@hahaha13822 no shit.. it cost 48k
TheBeaverguy21 1 week ago
@TheBeaverguy21 Yeah I know, but considering the fact that this car was built for this track, and the ferrari and lexus aren't, I just think that Ford probably should have put more juice under the hood if they really wanted to focus the car on such a track as this.;D.
hahaha13822 1 week ago
@hahaha13822: This car is not meant to compete with 300 thousand dollar supercars. Its a 40k muscle car. Its meant to compete with the Camaros and the BMW M3. In which it has already beaten both.
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 Lol, my bad. But still, wouldn't it be sweet to have like, 550bhp under that mustangs hood?
hahaha13822 1 week ago
@hahaha13822: Thats why there is the new Ford mustang GT500 coming out in May with 650HP and a real world tested top speed of 202 mph. The first front and back seat american muscle car, to come straight from the factory with that kinda top speed. On top of that, its gonna have the boss 302's suspension, launch control, adjustable suspension settings, and adjustable dampers. :)
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 Sweeet. :D Btw, thanks for the info, I might get one. Would you happen to know the price for that car?
hahaha13822 1 week ago
@hahaha13822: Its gonna be around 60k.
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 Really? This car is faster than the new Zl1 ?
gmrtg1414 1 week ago
@gmrtg1414: No its faster than the Camaro SS. The new GT500 which comes out this May is gonna be faster than the new ZL1.
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 I think the new Gt500 is going to cost more than a Zl1 but with 650 ponies and newe parts it might be worth every penny
gmrtg1414 1 week ago
@gmrtg1414: If it does cost more. Its not gonna be that much more. The latest rumor is 60k. Car and Driver has already tested the car. Unfortunately there are no vids of it, you gotta buy the magazine. But anyway, they actually did 202 mph in it.
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 Well the Camaro ZL1 just completely shattered the Boss 302 LS time at VIR by 10 seconds...
A HP bump won't do any Stang any good the ZL1 is wicked from the ground up not just under the hood.
Greendude33 1 week ago
@Greendude33: Thats no surprise considering it has 136HP more than the boss. Secondly, the new GT500 is not a HP bump. According to Car and Driver, the car has increased downforce, better aerodynamics, adjustable dampers, adjustable trac control settings, launch control, and stickier tries vs. the previous GT 500. If the Camaro fanboys think that the new GT500 is just a HP bump. Then they will be sadly mistaken come this May, when the GT500 reaches dealerships.
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 The ZL1 is recording better numbers right now than 800 HP Supernsnakes that cost over 100k... With the extra 50 grand under the hood and chassis they still manage to be quite slow givent their power... Hence the live axle which the new GT500 will still have...
Unless you're a drag strip only type of guy you'll be very unhappy on how the GT500 compares
Greendude33 1 week ago
@Greendude33: The problem with that logic is. You cant compare the current supersnakes to the new GT500. Why? Because the new GT500 suspension is upgraded even though its still a live rear axle. Of course the boss is faster around a track than the old GT500. The new GT500 literally has the boss's suspension now, with a torsen limited slip diff, an even stiffer suspension in sport mode, better tires and better aerodynamics. comparing the previous GT500 is pointless.
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@Greendude33: With all that said. There is no way the ZL1 is gonna be quicker aroud most tracks vs. the new GT500. The new GT500 has a significant power to weight ratio advantage over the ZL1. 670HP with 3850lbs of weight, vs. 580HP with 4,100lbs of weight. Yes the GT500 actually has 670HP. If the mustang GT 5.0 is quicker around most tracks than the SS. There is no reason why the new GT500 wont be quicker than the ZL1.
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 The Boss 302 is faster around a track than the GT500 so if the ZL1 dusts the Boss then the less poised GT500 will get dusted even worse...
GM is not at all worried about any mustang with a live axle now that the ZL1 is about to debut
Greendude33 1 week ago
@Greendude33: If IRS is such a big deal and such a deciding factor. Then why is it that the mustang GT is quicker than the SS around the willow springs and the VIR?? Why because it has a slightly better power to weight ratio. Now the new GT500 is gonna have a significant power to weight ratio advantage over the ZL1.
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 The ZL1 has the most advanced chassis and suspension components any pony car has had in the entire history of the segment... The ZL1 blew away the most track capable Mustang at VIR, Nothing has changed from the 2012 GT500 to the 2013 other than the engine, it still is plagued by a live axle that will make it seem like it has far less HP.... lighter GT's and Bosses may have hung with a plain Zeta SS but a ZL1 is closer to being a Corvette/CTS-V. Whole different ballgame
Greendude33 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 The GT500's live axle higher center of gravity and worse weight distribution will be incapable of matching the ZL1 through the bends and that gap will only become more apparent the more technical the corner is. The New GT500 will not improve it's lap by more than 12 seconds at VIR with the minor adjustments let's be honest here and not fanboyish...
The old pony car formula of just increasing power to win won't work any more...
Greendude33 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 At VIR the ZL1 ran a 2:52.3 which is 10 seconds faster than the Boss 302 LS with interior scaffolding and no rear seats...
Ford ran a 2013 GT500 at VIR and got a 2.58.0 lap time which is only two-tenths faster than the 2006 Corvette Z06 that had the bad tires and no MR. It's no wonder these times were never released to the mainstream press... I doubt they'll shave 6 seconds off that time no matter how hard they try.
SOURCE: fastestlapsDOTcom
Greendude33 1 week ago
@Greendude33: "Nothing has changed from the 2012 GT500 to the 2013 other than the engine,"
Are you kidding? You have done absolutely no research what so ever on the new GT500 if actually believe that.
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 The adjustments are so minor only people like you would call them anything but.... They obviously didn't do much help for the 2013 GT500 at VIR Ford won't even publish the time VIR recorded SVT getting there. Regardless everyone outside of Ford saw it still was 6 seconds behind the ZL1...
Not only that but Ford has avoided the Nurburgring like the plague, possibly b/c the gap would be larger than 6 seconds there
Greendude33 1 week ago
@Greendude33: You call increasing downforce, increasing aerodynamics, adding launch control, adding adjustable dampening with tra control settings minor???? The GT500 is not out yet. Whos to say they wont do anymore laps anywhere else?
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 The adjustments are minor compared to what GM did to the ZL1 and even more minor compared to what Mustang tuners like Roush and Saleen do to their Mustangs...
Ford is still hesistant to publlish anything b/c they cannot close the gap... They can't be too happy with their leaked 2013 VIR time.
Greendude33 1 week ago
@Greendude33: "The adjustments are minor compared to what GM did to the ZL1 and even more minor compared to what Mustang tuners like Roush and Saleen do to their Mustangs..."
It just doesn't matter. The new GT500 weighs a whopping 250lbs less than the ZL1 and it also have 90 more HP. In a standing mile race. The ZL1 doesn't stand a chance.
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 4200 pound CTS-V sedans still beat GT500's around tracks... Not only that but so far the 2013 GT500 is 6 seconds slower than the ZL1 at VIR, Ford is busting their ass as we speak trying to close the gap. Not only that but no one expects to see any Mustang on legal DOT tires to get under 4 seconds to 60 even a 800HP Snake with more money under the chassis cannot pull a a sub 4 second time meeanwhile a stock Caddy CTS-V will do 3.9 secs easy b/c the power isnt spun away
Greendude33 1 week ago
@Greendude33: My question is. Where are you getting this info from about the 2013 GT500 already lapping the VIR?. Because I'm looking all over the internet now and I can't find anything. Secondly, comparing the CTSV to the old GT500 is irrelevant when consider the suspension, aerodynamics and downforce upgrades the new GT500 has. The new GT500 is also using stickier tires over the old one.
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 FastestlapsDOTcom recorded SVT running the new GT500 at VIR and it posted a 2.58.0 so far... Which is 6 secs behind what GM got out of their ZL1.
Ford is working as we speak to close the gap while GM is popping champagne bottles, GM certainly isnt the ones sweating....
Ford has been even more quiet about their Nurburgring runs, probably b/c the gap is larger there...
Greendude33 1 week ago
@Greendude33: "Not only that but no one expects to see any Mustang on legal DOT tires to get under 4 seconds to 60"
Well thats obviously not true. Because Car and Driver has already done it 3.7 seconds.
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 Ford hasnt realeased any 2013 model to the press yet... They're still doing manufactuer testing... So that's how I know that's a fabricated time... A 2012 Supersnake with rollout still only does 4.1 secs to 60 so a cheaper GT500 with less power and less money under the chassis won't do almost half a second better not with those skinny tires and live axle.
Im anxious to see if the ZL1 gets the ceramic brake and PS2 tires option from the Vette.
Greendude33 1 week ago
@Greendude33: "A 2012 Supersnake with rollout still only does 4.1 secs to 60 so a cheaper GT500 with less power and less money"
You see you keep bring up the "Supersnake". The supersnake just does not have the downforce or the tires that the new GT500 has. So are you telling me that increasing a car's downforce is not gonna affect the car's 0 to 60 times??
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 Do you have any idead what Shelby does to a regular GT500 to make it a supersnake? They don't dump all 50 grand into the engine, they do extensive chassis and suspension tuning as well as well as improve downforce. Yet it still posts similar times to a stock Grandsport Corvette.
Regardless downforce is for help in corners and top speed there is not enough air pressure from 0-60 to make any difference in tire grip.
Greendude33 1 week ago
@Greendude33: Yes I do.But they have never been able to get the mustang to put the power to the ground. But according to C&D i will write you a quote. "The suspension does a remarkable job of keeping the tires planted coming off elevation changes, and there is no perceptible body roll" Thats a quote directly out of C&D magazine.
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 Car and driver has not yet driven a 2013 GT500, no auto review magazine has yet either b/c Ford has not released it yet... The changes have already been done to current Boss 302 Mustangs there's nothing radically changed that will improve its performance to 60 and around corners.
I expect the ZL1 vs 13' GT500 1/4 mile to be one of the closest in the Rivalry's history while I expect the ZL1 to have all the advantages in the corners.
Greendude33 6 days ago
@Greendude33: Yes they have. Like I said their results is in their March edition of their magazine. I'll tell you what. I actually found the whole article with their results and everything online. since I cant post links here I'll leave it on your channel.
V8Supercar1 6 days ago
@V8Supercar1 There also is not a single video of any automotive review magazine reviewing any 2013 model year Mustang. So far the first battlefield was at VIR and SVT's team could not get the 2013 GT500 close to GM's ZL1 lap time. I also am interested to see if Ford ever releases a Nurburgring lap time which I doubt as the Ring is a very hostile environment for a live axle.
The GT500 like all GT500's will have problems hooking up in 1st and 2nd gear so it will be close on the 1/4
Greendude33 6 days ago
@Greendude33: i'm aware of that. They probably don't have any videos of it because the car is not officially released yet. But did you read the article? I agree that it will be close on the 1/4 mile. 1/4 is such a short distance anyway. Ford better release some kinda Nurburgring time for the GT500. They already released photos of the GT500 with a nurburgring badge on the back of it. It would be a PR disaster if they dont officially do a lap run.
V8Supercar1 6 days ago
@V8Supercar1 It's nothing against the Mustang it's just that the Nurburgring is a very unforgiving track where the ZL1 suspension will pay dividends, I don't see any Mustang beating the ZL1 on any track. Even if pros are placed in both cars the ZL1 still has the more track oriented chassis.
If anything the battle isnt fair for Ford as the Camaro has two performance divisions above it to borrow technology and know how from.
Greendude33 6 days ago
@Greendude33: One thing I can tell you. Its really interesting comparing the ZL1 ring lap with the CTSV. ZL1 = 580HP/4100lbs of weight, CTSV 556HP4200lbs . And the ZL1 is a whopping 18 secs faster. Just looking at that comparison right there really does show that Ford have a tough fight on their hands. They may just have to suck it up and bring back the cobra mustangs, since they actually had IRS. But we will see. Things will be interesting when MT get their hands on the cars.
V8Supercar1 6 days ago
@Greendude33: If I was Ford. I would just suck it up. Hire a pro driver to do the lap time at the ring. (Maybe Randy Pobst.) Hes got Nurburgring experience. Keep Tanner foust far away. He hates domestics anyway. But anyway, get a pro driver, and just let the chips fall where they may.
V8Supercar1 6 days ago
@Greendude33: I heard this same exact arguement from the Camaro fanboys just before the GT 5.0 was released. All I heard was the camaro have the better suspension because of IRS. Ford may not have MRC, but atleast they have electronic dampening and the power to weight ratio advantage. My question is. If the mustangs suspension is so bad and dated, then why isn't the Camaro SS with its IRS and 13 more HP faster than the GT 5.0?????
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 The ZL1 is not an SS, GM went to the Corvette and V divisions for know how this time, this is far from a regular Zeta chassis and that was reflected at the first track the ZL1 ran against the Mustangs beating the 2012 Boss 302 LS by 10 secs and the 2013 GT500 by 6 secs.
Once the Camaro gets the 3300lb Alpha chassis the gaps will only grow. I'd like to see Ford make a RWD IRS chassis weigh close to that.
Greendude33 1 week ago
@Greendude33: Secondly. I'll write you some performance numbers that Car And Driver magaizne got in both cars. ZL1 0 to 60 in 4.1 secs ,0 to 100 in 8.9 secs., 1/4 mile 12.3 top speed 180 mph (GT500 3.7 secs 0 to 100 8.7 secs 1/4 mile 11.7 secs. top speed 202 mph) As for as 1/4 mile and standing mile racing, the ZL1 is just not getting the job done.
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@V8Supercar1 Do you have to lie? Seriously?
No source has reviewed those figures yet... We just have manufacturer lap times and so far the GT500 is slower than the ZL1... The 4200lb CTS-V sedan does 0-60 in 3.9 secs and the 1/4 mile in 12.2 secs while the best Supernsnakes barely get under 12 secs so I call BS on those fabricated figures... That I cannot confirm from C&D
Greendude33 1 week ago
@Greendude33: lol Lie about what? I'm holding the magazine in my hand as we speak. Yes, car and driver has already tested both cars. If you don't believe me. All you gotta do is go out and buy the march edition of C&D. And like I told you before, the Supersnakes don't have the suspension and the downforce that the new GT500 has. Why is it so hard to believe that? How is it that you think the only thing Ford did was up the HP???
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
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hahaha13822 2 weeks ago
i guess 54 people are ricers or BMW owners !!!! :)))
ldrago1310 2 weeks ago
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BadBandar59 2 weeks ago
beating everything at the drag strip and on the track... like a boss
HottestGuyOnInternet 2 weeks ago 15
@HottestGuyOnInternet quite an exaggeration
jayphm5 5 days ago
Gotta love the Boss' muscle, but after driving one for a day, I'll still sacrifice the extra HP for the GT. It's tuning setup is phenominal, but the stripped-down interior isn't for me. It won't happen anytime soon, if ever, but I'll hold out for the return of the 429.
Stangfan214 2 weeks ago
@Stangfan214: I say put a twin turbo kit on that GT, an you'll be faster than the boss and you'll have a back seat and a normal interior. :)
V8Supercar1 1 week ago
@greendude33 Dude, get a life and stop trolling the comments. You've got literally almost a hundred comments on this thread. I flagged every single one of them for spam because that is frankly what you are doing.
indyschmidt 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
All you Chevy Idiots should be proud, Chevy's just become the worlds largest car company again, in terms of cars sold, overtaking Toyota, but not before defaulting on 77.5 billion in debt and a 49.5 billion Government Bailout, for which the government still owns 26.5% in stock. Chevy also reported a huge 7 billion $ profit, or less than 1/3 what Ford reported in 2011. Ford's not interested in the sales crown, Ford wants more features and a higher profit margin, and they're succeeding.
FoMoCo
1vdn992 3 weeks ago
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nickasu420 3 weeks ago
@1vdn992 the only vettes worth getting are the zr1 and the zo6.
Bravo12RX 3 weeks ago
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gmrtg1414 3 weeks ago
@gmrtg1414 Yeah but he was pricing a new one. Gotta do apples to apples.
jamesfs912 3 weeks ago
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gmrtg1414 3 weeks ago
54 people drive M3s. The Boss is a hoss.
dobbins2550 3 weeks ago 11
The boss 302 is an amazing car, ford did there home work on this beast. It'll be neat to see what else ford can come up with over the next few years.
HackoDis 3 weeks ago
I remeber when you had to have a racers licence to purchase a 95 Cobra R with,.........wait.......wait, 300HP! lol
audriahYemma 4 weeks ago
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gmrtg1414 4 weeks ago
The 6 speed transmissions are MADE in CHINA.
fleetingdays 4 weeks ago
@fleetingdays Unfortunately, so are most consumer items. iPods, TVs, Computers, Car Parts, etc. . .
twinimaging 3 weeks ago
Willow Springs - Streets of Willow, USA
Fastest Laps
1:26.10 Ford Mustang Boss 302 LS 2012
1:27.29 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport C6 2010
Boss Mustang run without TracKey and baffles removed.
1vdn992 4 weeks ago
@1vdn992 False lap times... You own provided source says so... FAIL
Greendude33 4 weeks ago
Vettes save weight (and cost) with the smc "fiberglass" front end, and rear panels. It really feels cheap. Chevy's pushrod LS series engine is nothing more than cost savings. Compare a Boss motor dyno chart vs a Vette's and I'm sure anyone would see the Boss 302 motor makes more power throughout a greater portion of the powerband than the Vette's pushrod LS V8.
Put a plastic front end on a Boss and the track might not give the Vette the advantage.
1911tacII 4 weeks ago
Let me attempt to bring some reason to this fanboy debate. To call a Boss 302 "just another Mustang" is stupid. To think it could beat a C6 Vette on a race track is equally stupid. The Boss was designed to beat the M3 @ Laguna Seca. It does. The Vette was designed to run down Ferraris and Porches. It does.
The Boss will beat anything wearing a bow tie short of a Vette. It's not just a pony car. It's a bad ass road car.
1911tacII 4 weeks ago
*models
Greendude33 4 weeks ago
@Greendude33 u have like the whole comment section to yourself lol
LhotseRSMuol 4 weeks ago
@Greendude33 Sure 50/50 static/stationary weight dist is great for spirted driving but when standing on the brakes and trying to turn, do you think it stays 50/50? You give plenty of reasons why the GS should be faster than the Boss and I agree it should, at all tracks but clearly it's not and clearly relys on WOT opportunities and not so many hairpins because of its better power to weight. Nevermind huge tire/brake, balance and center of gravity, a Boss with equal power to weight will
acs4llc 4 weeks ago
@acs4llc The Corvette has lower moving interia that a Mustang under heavy braking applications does the Boss has nearly all of its weight on the front tires, more so than a Corvette. When you combine that light rear end and enter a turn, the Boss is far more likely to oversteer than a Corvette. The Grandsport is faster than Boss at any track end of story stop trying to pretend the Boss has ever ran against any Corvette other than the one time at VIR.
Greendude33 4 weeks ago
@Greendude33 no doubt beat the GS everywhere including VIR. I've never said the Boss is world class or anything like that but all I'm saying is neither is the GS. On paper, sure but in reality not so much. Considering its huge brakes/tires, weight dist, center of gravity, double wishbones, space frame etc, etc, it's really pathetic.
acs4llc 4 weeks ago
@acs4llc First of all the Corvette has always been in competition with Porsches & Ferraris and not to mention the C6 Vette is now 7 years old that is still leading the class in lap times even beating and remaining ultra competitive with the newest supercars from Europe just barely being released and still managing to beat over 95% of the best Euro cars on the world famous Nurburgring. C6's still compete with the newest imagine what the C7 will do. Let pony cars play with pony cars...
Greendude33 4 weeks ago
@Greendude33 You're talking about the ZR1 taking on the world and for sure the GS is the low hanging fruit but without superior power to weight, the GS would lose to the Boss without a doubt on any track. Check the 'sector graphs'. Back 2 back, side by side or whatever pleases you and C&D ran them on separate occasions. Splitting hairs of course but no they didn't run them against each other so your argument is as invalid as anyone elses.
Next C7? Who the heck knows? Next GT500,we already know.
acs4llc 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@acs4llc If the Mustang had this If If if is all you can say.... Basically if the Boss was more like a Corvette is what your arguement is...
The Corvette was designed different than a pony car of course it has the advantages... Stick to Camaro's and Challenger's...
Greendude33 3 weeks ago
It's no disgrace for a 3600 lb 4 seater with a 5.0L to lose to a 3300 lb 2 seater with a 6.2L. It's no disgrace losing to a car that costs a lot more money. The Boss Mustang has great HP potential for not much money, a new Exhaust/ TB/CAI/Tune, has shown a 60 whp gain, add the Vettes cheater tires at the track and you have my style. What's amazing is both Boss Mustangs are faster to 60 and the 1/4 bone stock than an 08 Z51 Vette, FASTESTLAPS
1vdn992 1 month ago
@1vdn992 Wrong the Boss 302 lost to all Corvette models in the only Boss vs Corvette comparision conducted by C&D...
Fanboys are pathetic.... Go play with the Camaros and Challengers... The Vette runs with Porsche's and Ferrari's
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 Ford's done something this year they haven't done since 1970 and that's to increase their market share 3 years in a row, and analysts believe Ford's going to stretch their winning streak to 4 this year.
My source is Fastestlaps sorry to disappoint you, and Vette sales are off by a whopping 2/3s since 08 alone and GM as a whole is off by 3/5s since 2000. What remains are the Chevy die hards, Chevy Runs Deep, into the red that is.
1vdn992 1 month ago
@1vdn992 "Cheater tires" is just something else angry fan boys have to cry like little children about. Go complain about Dodge, Porsche, Audi, BMW, Ferrari, etc using them.
iPROFITDON 1 month ago
@1vdn992 Boss L/S is a 2 seater dumb fuck. WOW you really are that dumb what next 4000 a year for insurance...wait you already said that. And the biggest troll award goes to YOU shocking Boss L/S 2 seater DF
gmrtg1414 1 month ago
@gmrtg1414 In Edmunds performance testing, a base Coupe went from zero to 60 mph in 4.5 seconds. With the optional dual-mode exhaust that adds another 6 hp and 4 lb-ft, a Grand Sport shaved 0.1 second off that time and sounded even cooler doing it.
LMAO a 2011 Mustang GT 6M opt 3.73s can win a stoplight race against either one of these dogs for 1/2 the price.
1vdn992 1 month ago
@1vdn992 WOW none of that changes the fact your a moron. Boss L/S 2 seater. just got served by a 4 seat daily driver the Zl1
gmrtg1414 1 month ago
@gmrtg1414 I spoke of the 4 seat, not incorrect, and then I included both Mustangs, again not incorrect. Do you speak some funny kinda english, or is it your reading and comprehension aren't up to snuff. I passed college english at my local college btw.
2013 GT500 with over 670 hp is the ZL1 slayer.
1vdn992 1 month ago
@1vdn992 Anyone who thinks vette insurance is 4000 dollars is not that bright. Just the facts you really didnt think anyone would buy that bullshit did you? The video we are watching is of a Boss L/S and using your bullshit comparison the 2 seater just got its ass handed to it by a 4 seat heavy pig sad....
gmrtg1414 1 month ago
Comment removed
gmrtg1414 1 month ago
@1vdn992 What are you going to do when the new GT500 is a huge dissapointment like the 800HP Supersnakes?
Greendude33 1 month ago
@gmrtg1414 You spelled your wrong, you're is a contraction of you and are, as in you are a moron. The word your is used as in, you own your own car.
I'd take high school english and pass if i was you, your asshole is overriding your mouth and it makes you look like you have more mouth than brains.
1vdn992 1 month ago
@1vdn992 Ya my spelling suck ass and sentence structure is just as bad but some of the bullshit you come up with is down right stupid
gmrtg1414 1 month ago
@1vdn992 The Mustang has never been a threat to the Corvette... The fact that a base C6 Z51 beat the Boss and GT500 at the only head to head battle at VIR is proof. People who are not blind fanboys will see the facts that no heavy pony car competes with a Coirvette. End of
Greendude33 1 month ago
@gmrtg1414 2012 Chevrolet Corvette
Both the base Vette and Grand Sport feature a 6.2-liter V8 that cranks out 430 hp and 424 pound-feet of torque. All Corvettes come standard with a six-speed manual transmission and launch control. A six-speed automatic is available on all but the high-performance models.
Edmunds
1vdn992 1 month ago
Comment removed
gmrtg1414 1 month ago
I know it somewhat defeats the purpose, but I wish the LS package had an option to keep the back seats.
Pwnzed69 1 month ago
its s
acs4llc 1 month ago
@Greendude33 until you drive both cars like I have and feel the difference you can't say shit. Ask any corvette driver, they will tell you it's hard to keep those cars strait... The grand sport at the auto x event that I go to was a mere 2 seconds slower than me on each run, he couldn't beat my time all day
dtdeb99 1 month ago
@Greendude33 I've driven my friends c6 an he drive my boss and he and I both agree my car handled better and was more powerful. What car do you drive and have you ever driven both the vette and the boss? Because I have... I go to Nola Motorsports park on the weekends and I can tell you there are no stock vettes touching my boss unless it's a zo6 or a zr1
dtdeb99 1 month ago
@Greendude33 any baseline vette or grand sport with an average to good driver will have slower lap times than an average to good driver in a boss because it's an easier car to drive.
dtdeb99 1 month ago
@dtdeb99 No give any driver with decent skill both a Corvette and a Boss 302 and they will set a faster lap time in the Vette. The Boss 302 test is not an accurate test that follows the rules of the scientific method, it had too many variables and therefore the results were skewed and innaccurate.
The Corvette is perfectly balanced at 50/50, lower center of gravity and stiffer chassis and more advanced suspension system, the Boss is just a tightened GT it is still a pony car.
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 sorry to brake it to you buddy but if you have ever driven a vette, it's hard to get them to go around corners.. They are faster cars but the rear end is light and you need skills to really get the vettes full potential. Not everybody that owns vettes knows how to drive them
dtdeb99 1 month ago
@dtdeb99 No you have never driven any Corvette, they have a perfect 50/50 weight distribution which means there is any equal amount of weight on the rear tires as the front tires. A Boss 302 has a 56/44 distribution so actually the Boss has the lighter rear end in fact. The Boss 302 will be thrown off balance far easier than a Vette with the higher center of gravity, front end weight bias, and the non independent rear wheels.
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 I beat regular corvettes and grand sports all the time in my boss 302.. I only get them buy two or three car lengths though but the grand sport an the boss are so close it depends on the drivers
dtdeb99 1 month ago
@dtdeb99 Don't lie to me I am not stupid... I respect the Boss 302 and it is one of the best Pony Cars ever made, but it is still just a pony car and not a sports car. It cannot hang with Corvettes. Even by the slimmest chance you had a Boss, you would not beat a Corvette unless you have Michael Shumacher like talent which I doubt you do.
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 If it takes a pro driver to unlock your Corvette's hidden potential, what good is that to you? If you cannot outrun a damn Boss 302 thru the canyon or at the track...
Corvettes are true sports cars if not a supercars and will win against any Mustang known to man in the court of pubic opinion and that's all Corvette owners need. This is why most Corvettes are base model automatics owned by geezers that just want a particular image. You won't see them in a Mustang no matter how fast.
acs4llc 1 month ago
@acs4llc No a pro driver just reduces the human variable, you cannot compare a Boss lap time that ran on a seperate occasion by a different driver than in the GS. That's an extra variable that skews the results. If a Boss is driven by the same driver as in a GS pro or not, the GS will be faster. I think everyone outside of Mustang die hard fan boys already know the difference between a pony car and a sports car and already know a Mustang vs Vette comparision always ends the same.
Greendude33 1 month ago
@acs4llc Oh so you wanna talk about which Vette model sells best? Well the best selling Mustang is the automatic V6 by females of all ages. According to a University of Detroit study in 2008 with a sample size of 10,000 Mustang owners showed that 80% of the owners were female.
As for the Vette, yes old men have money and alot of Porsche and Ferrari owners are financially stable older men, they buy the Mustangs for their wives and daughters.
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 The V6 automatic is a great gift for a girl's sweet 16 but giving her a Boss 302 would be completely asinine and even the GT would be ridiculous. No one is denying base Mustangs are perfect chick's cars and quite a few own GTs but the Boss 302 isn't even available with an auto. Financially stable dudes tied to oxygen tanks will end up at the Chevy dealer.
acs4llc 1 month ago
@Greendude33 The Corvette's specs guarantee it's a better choice for spirited driving but anything can happen when pushed to the limit especially by non pros. 50/50 weight distribution is great when you coast into a turn then gently squeeze the throttle but less of an advantage when you're standing on the brakes going in and WOT exiting. This is also when IRS on super wide low-profiles is less of an advantage.
acs4llc 1 month ago
@acs4llc Oh really is that why at more techical tracks like Virginia International Raceway the Boss 302 LS lost to all Corvette models? From the base Z51 to getting demolished by the Z06 and ZR1. The laps were all conducted by Car & Driver so the different driver variable was eliminated. The Boss is one of the most track capable pony cars ever but it's still not running with any Corvette b/c it's just a Mustang.
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 Wasn't it you that said... "YOU CANNOT COMPARE A BOSS LAP TIME THAT RAN ON A SEPARATE OCCASION BY A DIFFERENT DRIVER THAN IN THE GS. THAT'S AN EXTRA VARIABLE THAT SKEWS RESULTS..."? What, now it's OK to cherry pick magazine journos lap times that according to you... "NO ONE CARES ABOUT JOURNALIST LAP TIMES, JOURNALISTS CANNOT PUSH A CAR TO IT'S PEAK PERFORMANCE..." Soooo which is it???
What's wrong with Laguna Seca? Not technical enough for ya? VIR is 1 of the greatest
acs4llc 1 month ago
@acs4llc The Boss lost to all C6 generation Corvettes at VIR for the second time....So I do not see why you would continue to mention it when talking about the Corvette. Laguna Seca has one challenging turn and the Boss has never gone head to head at LS against the Corvette like it did at VIR conducted by C&D. The Mustang does not compare to a Corvette that's not a bad thing b/c its still just a pony car.
Oh and please don't start the childish all caps bullshit, it's so pathetic.
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 What, you don't like your words repeated in bold print when you contradict yourself? First you dismiss auto journo's as incompetent/inconsistant until you find a article that favors your point? Btw, how did C&D beat a '10 Mustang GT with a current V6?
C&D showed how closely the Corvette GS and Boss 302 LS cornered thru sectors and noted the GS's advantage was in the straights thanks to its way better power to weight ratio. Given the same power to weight, the Boss 302 LS would've
acs4llc 1 month ago
@Greendude33 absolutely killed the GS, clearly. Nevermind that the Boss runs truck suspension, room for 3 passengers and severely top/nose heavy. That's what's pathetic. On a different track or drivers, a Boss 302 LS may have the advantage, as is. Actually it's already proven that.
Every track should have a cork screw or equivalent. It drops 60 ft in 450 ft of track and tests a car like real canyons. Anything that compresses or unloads a Corvettes rear end on a tight turn further amplifies
acs4llc 1 month ago
@acs4llc The Boss 302 LS FYI does not have 3 more seats you're an idiot they ripped them out and put support beams. I guess you wouldnt know that from playing Gran Turismo huh junior?
Regardless your arguement is stupid... No shit the Corvette has better power/weight ratios and balance that's the entire point of being a sports car and why large pony cars are handicapped against them.
Now calm down no one will discredit the Stang for losing to a Vette. Apples to Oranges
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 I didn't say the Boss 302 LS seats 3 passengers but has a 3 passenger body as opposed to a 1 passenger sports car.
Read the article you yourself brought up. It points to how similarly the Boss and Corvette GS corner thru the sectors despite the Boss having less power to weight. Nevermind (static) balance or center of gravity. What does that tell you? What does that tell you about the other tracks where the GS has lost to the Boss? Is it starting to make sense yet? Corvettes perform
acs4llc 1 month ago
@acs4llc First of all power to weight is all about acceleration and braking not cornering... Cornering itself is chassis balance, suspension, downforce and grip. The Corvette lightness means it brakes later into turns, carries more speed through thanks to the balance and suspension and is on the throttle out of the turn quicker. The Boss 302 by design is physically incapable of beating a Corvette around a track when the different driver variable is eliminated.
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 Thanks for the history lesson Pops but the point is, if you were to add weight on all the wrong places to the Corvette until you had the same balance, center of gravity as the Boss 302 LS then equalized the brakes, coefficient of drag, downforce, wheelbase and finally the power to weight ratio...you'd have a "sports car" that ran with Focus' and Cobalts instead of Mustangs. That's what you're not getting.Take away all the Corvettes physical advantages over a Boss & you've got what?
acs4llc 1 month ago
@acs4llc That is the most fucking stupid arguement I have ever heard on the Corvette... "Take away all the Corvette physical advantages over a Boss & you've got what?" LMAO Like me saying I could knock out Mike Tyson if they amputated his arms first.
Why would the Corvette want to become an inferior car to match the specs of a Boss? Again that's so asinine. I hope other people read this.
"Boss would be faster than a Corvette if the Corvette wasn't so well designed" Thats your arguement
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 No again you're completely missing the point. The Corvette *relies* on its physical advantages to be as fast as it is. Of course it wouldn't be a "Corvette" without them but it also wouldn't be anywhere near as fast either. Wouldn't be anywhere near as fast a Boss either. The Boss 302 already keeps up with the GS as it sits. Now imagine how badly it would destroy the GS with the same balance, center of gravity, brakes, aerodynamics, down force, power to weight etc, etc. and
acs4llc 1 month ago
@acs4llc That still is a fallacious arguement... If Usain Bolt wasn't such a fast runner I could beat him in a foot race..
If Michael Jordan wasnt the best basketball player of all time I could beat him one on one. Do you get how stupid that sounds?
The only head to head between a GS and Boss was at VIR and we all know how that went. The Boss lost by 4 seconds or an eternity in the race world.
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 Exactly! Finally you're understanding... 4 seconds that it gained in the straightaways. Read the article. Power to weight is the *only* reason it pulled away. Balance, center of gravity, brakes, downforce, aerodynamics, wheelbase gave the GS virtually zero advantage in the turns... except if it didn't have *all* those physical advantages, it would've lost in a badly. Very badly!
acs4llc 1 month ago
@acs4llc The Corvette GS did not get all 4 seconds on the straight that's bullshit and you know it, you're too biased toward the Mustang to understand the technical and physical inferiorities a pony car has compared to a sports car. A four second lead made only on the back straight would be like a ZR1 vs V6 Mustang 1/4 mile. The GS is faster than a Boss 302 on the straights but by four seconds? The Boss lost 4 seconds over the course of the entire race.
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 The Corvette GS has minimal advantage in the turns vs the Boss but a huge advantage in the straights where it's all about and power to weight. To quote C&D...
"The Vette cedes 8 hp to the 302 but weighs 316 fewer lbs, giving it the straight-line advantage (144 mph vs 139). Our sector times show how close these 2 are from a cornering standpoint..."
Damn shame that a Corvette GS can hardly corner better than a fat, prerunner like pony car...On other tracks, it loses to the Boss 302!
acs4llc 1 month ago
@acs4llc Do you have any idea how far of a distance a 4 second lead is? The straights at VIR are not that long... You're just desperate to make the Boss sound better than it really is...It would have to be like a ZR1 vs an auto V6 Stang for their to be a 4 second gap on such a small straight.
The Corvette brakes later into turns, carries more speed through and exits faster.
FYI Liar C&D only did lap time comparisions not side by side reviews.
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 That's 4 seconds on a 4 mile course and any place you can keep the throttle pegged is 'straight' enough and many of VIR's turns and S' are fast enough for that. It's a drag race at that point and the only reason the GS can completely break away its lighter weight. The GS should handle better, much better than the Boss thru the turns given its weight, center of gravity, bigger tires/brakes, etc, etc. The tighter the turn is, the worse it handles and
acs4llc 1 month ago
@acs4llc The Corvette is the lighter, more balanced car.. The Boss cannot take a corner faster end of story thats physic. The Corvette was faster the entire way through the course, VIR r does not have long enough straights for a 436HP GS to pull that far ahead of a Boss. The power to weight ratio of the two are are too close for that big of lead to be made soley form straight line acceleration.
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 You also forget that weight also translates into better braking a Corvette brakes later heading into a turn than a heavier pony car and b/c of the perfect weight distribution its more planted and stable through a high G corner. With a boss the lighter rear end is more susceptible to oversteer and the heavy front end causes more understeer. With a 50/50 balance you minimize the effects of both. The Corvette had the advatange on every square inch of the track.
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 No Boss Mustang i've seen tested yet has had TracKey and the Baffles removed.
TCO, True Cost to Own is much higher for the Vette
With all the Vette GS has going for it, it still loses in an acceleration contest to 60 and through the traps to a Boss Mustang, which is the safe race when placing your expensive asset at risk. The Boss has seen 60 whp on the dyno with an exhaust/TB/CAI/Tune and that's enough to embarrass and rip the Vettes butt wide open.
1vdn992 4 weeks ago
@1vdn992 The Vette is not a pony car and sells in the sports car segement, so logically it has a higher insurance rate than cheaper cars... The Focus is cheaper to insure than a Mustang for the same reasons. The Corvette is only slower than a Boss in your fanboy mind.. A GS does 0-60 on GY F1's in 4.1 secs and 3.9 on regular PS2's. The Boss on factory tires w/ no rollout peaked at 4.3 secs.
Finally I don't give a fuck about Mustang tuning, as any Corvette can be tuned as well.
Greendude33 4 weeks ago
@Greendude33 the less it pulls away from the Boss. That's clearly illustrated on the sector graphs.
Run them side by side and results could vary slightly either way so I don't see why you're hanging on to that sorry excuse. Run them on a tighter course with not so many WOT opportunities and the GS will lose everytime because its handling sucks balls for what it is.
acs4llc 1 month ago
@acs4llc No if the Boss and Corvette Z51/GS are compared with the variables controlled (primarily the driver) then Corvette will set a faster lap. A Corvette driven by the same driver as a Boss will set the faster time. The are so many factors in the physics of motorsport and HP/weight is just the tip of the iceburg. TG's stig is the only credability of the show, a professional who does multiple laps with only the absolute best lap being recorded. In that type of peak vs peak test the Vette wins
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 The Boss Mustang is a lot less money than a Vette GS
The Boss Mustang is 300 lbs heavier than a Vette GS
The Boss Mustang has 4 seats vs 2 for the Vette GS
The Boss Mustang has a 5.0L vs 6.2 foe the Vette GS
Vette GS has better weight dist and much bigger tires than the Boss Mustang
Vettes still have a garbage interior for the money, Mustang not
Vette rides like a truck, and Mustangs aren't knocked for that
Vettes have twitchy handling and amateurs get into trouble
1vdn992 4 weeks ago
@1vdn992 The Boss is not a purpose built sports car, just a tuned 5.0 w/ stickers. So it's cheaper. and duh the Vette is lighter
The Boss with the times you're referring to is the LS with only 2 seats. Regardless no one races competitively with passengers anyways.
Learn the difference between an OHV and OHC engine
Better weight distribution no shit that's what I've been saying
Vettes now have damn good interiors (3ZL package)
Mustang rides like truck with truck live axle
Greendude33 4 weeks ago
@1vdn992 I thought the last parts of your comment was hilarious... How does a Corvette esp the GS ride like a truck with ultra high tech Magnetic Dampers and double wishbones in comparision to a Stang live axle which is literally also used on trucks. Twitchty handling? The Vette has a 50/50 weight balance and lower center of mass in comparision to the Stang's heavy front end inducing more understeer and lighter rear end being more susceptible to oversteer.
Greendude33 4 weeks ago
@Greendude33 How the heck can the Boss be suseptible to 'both' under and oversteer simultaniously? If it did, wouldn't that make it completely neutral in corners? Sure looks like it does in fact. You're right, the GS should be faster than the Boss thru the turns. on paper at least. Much, much faster actually but in reality, not so much. On some tracks, not at all...
Corvettes are well known for their twitchy, snappy antics and it's frustrating for fanbois that it doesn't show up on spec sheets,
acs4llc 4 weeks ago
@acs4llc It's a shock how little you know. Never did I say it was simultanoeous, having too much weight in the front of the car causes an unblanced torsional reaction that effects the lateral acceleration of a car. You will never see race cars with a substansial front end weight balance because of this. 50/50 is the ideal distribution for front engined RWD cars and 40/60 for mid engined RWD cars never is a front end bias ideal.
Greendude33 4 weeks ago
@acs4llc Now on oversteer, all RWD cars are susceptible to oversteer however in a Corvette with a rear end that weighs the same as the front it is less prevalent than in a Boss with a lighter rear end that will break lose with inccorect throttle management. The Corvette with a 50/50 balance reduces all these effects by equalizing the car's mass throughout the chassis which reduces rolling intertia and transfer of mass through high G corners.
Greendude33 4 weeks ago
@Greendude33 brochures, diagrams or schematics, I get that. You're proof of that. If myself and the others are wrong, what possible explanation do you have for why the GS is so damn slow for what it's made of or how it should perform according to its specs? It loses to a car that's an F-150 and a sports car 'hybrid'... Sorry but it's true. Either way it doesn't matter 'why' it doesn't live up to expectations, it just doesn't.
acs4llc 4 weeks ago
@acs4llc The laws of physics grants superiority to the Corvette. This has nothing to do with brandnames. A Boss physically cannot match a Corvette's peak performance a Boss with a 56/44 distribution and higher center of mass physically cannot take a corner like a Corvette. The forces invloved prohibit a Boss from being able to match the Corvette's peak capabilites in the turns. The only variable that would skew this is the driver variable which must be consistant to be accurate.
Greendude33 4 weeks ago
@acs4llc No C6 Corvette has ever lost to a Boss that's bullshit created on the forums by fanboys like yourself. You can only mention non accurate test runs with inconsistant variables that do not create valid results. There has been literally one official track comparision and that's at VIR where the Boss is slower than all C6 midels. If anyone dumb enough to not already know that Corvettes are faster than Stangs ran a consistant Boss vs Vette test like C&D, then the Boss will lose.
Greendude33 4 weeks ago
@acs4llc Oh and if me being 24 years old is a "pops" to you then it only shows how young you are...
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 if you don't understand the 'concept', you're simply being difficult (or dense) and we can just let it go at that. Either way it's not a problem. No I'm 33 but was refering to your history lesson.
acs4llc 1 month ago
@Greendude33 best on paper and rely on power instead of finesse. It may look good but becomes clumsy when pushed too hard. Equalize the power and it'll fall far behind a Boss 302 with or without a backseat.
acs4llc 1 month ago
@acs4llc The Corvette does not need a backseat that's asinine, it was desinged to be a two seater coupe since 1953... The Mustang was intially supposed to be a docile Ford Falcon family car. Hence the different formulas. The Corvette was never designed to carry your family cross country if you want passenger carrying ability buy a minivan get real. Dumb arguement no one races competitively with passegers outside of WRC and thats still only one passenger.
Greendude33 1 month ago
@Greendude33 its already snappy tendencies. This is why Corvette fanbois are so quick to discredit Laguna Seca in favor of VIR or the Nurburgring.
acs4llc 1 month ago
@acs4llc I don't need to argue with an idiot who sounds too young to drive in the first place...
Final closing statements... No Mustang went head to head agaisnt any Vette at Laguna Seca where it did such as at VIR it lost to all Corvette models.
"If the boss weighed the same as a GS" LMAO what a pathetic arguement... Point is that no Mustang compares to a Corvette. Go play with the other pony cars.
Greendude33 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Greendude33 Wasn't it you that said... "YOU CANNOT COMPARE A BOSS LAP TIME THAT RAN ON A SEPARATE OCCASION BY A DIFFERENT DRIVER THAN IN THE GS. THAT'S A VARIABLE THAT SKEWS RESULTS..."? What, now it's OK to cherry pick magazine journo's lap times that according to you... "NO ONE CARES ABOUT JOURNALIST LAP TIMES, JOURNALISTS CANNOT PUSH A CAR TO IT'S PEAK PERFORMANCE..." Soooo which is it???
What's wrong with Laguna Seca? Not technical enough for ya? VIR is 1 of the greatest
acs4llc 1 month ago
i know this track like the back of my hand from all the racing games ive played haha
shawn114483 1 month ago
@shawn114483 Me too; although I'd love to try the real life version someday
drc1981 1 month ago
use vhs tapes
highfuturamic 1 month ago
@TheHm3
Z06 not good on the straights?
Ford GT 0-60: 3.8sec
Z06/Z07 0-60: 3.7sec
The GT has top speed though. But to be fair, the GT is a bit older (and with technology advancement these days, it's really old). I love them both either way
sdstig 1 month ago
@sdstig Ford Racing offers a Pulley and Tune upgrade for the GT that by itself adds 100 hp, then