@byronmorris1990 4. It really seems to me as though you're scared of me. Why are you lashing out in anger when I'm trying to be reasonable?
5. Is it so crazy that I might not want to email some random stranger on the internet, especially when they don't explain who they are or what they want to discuss?
It's clear you're not able to think through things logically, but I do enjoy getting your goat. I will assume, since you refuse to explain what you believe that you are in fact a Satanist.
@byronmorris1990 1. You say there are many lost souls, so you want to have a private rather than public conversation. That doesn't make sense to me. Shouldn't you want a public conversation so more people might see your point?
2. You object to my calling you rude. Yet you've called me rude, evil, ignorant, and lost. Don't you think it's hypocritical to call me those but object when I call you rude?
3. Do you seriously think I've rejected your beliefs when I don't even know what you believe?
@byronmorris1990 If you want to see a rude person, look in the mirror. I have no idea who you are--whether you're a JW or a Christian or a Satanist or a Nigerian internet scam artist. You didn't address anyone in particular or even say "please." You just commanded someone to email you for some unknown purpose. Needless to say I'm not interested in a private conversation with you. If you want to show me something, have the guts to do it on this public forum.
(Matthew 10:32-39) 32 “Everyone, then, that confesses union with me before men, I will also confess union with him before my Father who is in the heavens; 33 but whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. 34 Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law.
36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. 37 He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me.
38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it. . .
The Bible is sometimes a difficult book to read, as the Ethiopian eunuch realized while reading the Bible allowed in Acts 27: "8 Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: “Do you actually know what you are reading?” 31 He said: “Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guided me?” (NWT)
A quick look through an interlinear Bible will show that Jehovah and Jesus are both called 'elohim', as are kings, magistrates and judges, prophets, angels, great military heroes, the religious hierarchy of Israel.
Through usage we can see the word, 'elohim' and its Greek equivalent, 'theos' mean a person of great strength, power or authority. There are many such persons in the Bible, so there are many 'gods'.
Exodus 22:28, "Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people."
Here, he forbids the faithful from reviling the religious hierarchy of Israel.
Psalms 136:2, "O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever." Here, Jehovah is called the elohim of elohim, the god of gods. The other gods include the kings of Israel.
All quotes are from the King James 1611 translation:
Psalms 82:1, "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods." Here, Jehovah stands among the high priests, scribes and Pharisees and judges them.
Psalms 82:6, "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Here Jehovah tells the high priests, scribes and Pharisees that he has called them gods and that they are the sons of the most high God.
Such is the case with the word, 'elohim'. It is translated as 'god', but its' usage is much broader than the modern word 'god'. Today, the English word 'god' means 'deity', either the true God or a false god. The word 'elohim' and its' Greek equivalent, 'theos' do not mean deity.
I appreciate the measure tone of your argument. You addressed many issues and asked several questions. I will answer one question and tell you how many gods the Jehovah's Witnesses believe there to be. Sometimes, when a word is translated from an ancient language spoken by a distant peoples thousands of years ago, something is lost in the translation.
Matthew 19:5-6 "For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh..." Using your words definition "these three are one" must mean one God 100% in three beings. We must also assume that once a man and woman join in marriage, they become one single solitary person yet "mysteriously" two beings because this passage uses the same theology.
@tegf4 That is all false. God is one being. God is 3 persons. For example, a brick has being, but not personhood. You are one person in one being. God is 3 persons in one being. The Trinity doesn't violate any law of logic.
You are saying Matt is false? or If we assume that the way a word is use in one verse means different when use in the same manner in another, then which way should it be used in any manner?
if the word One mean, the same thing, then it should be the same in the other. Both are using the word the same but man and woman do not become as one in flesh that is. I and the father are one could mean on the same level, same thought, I do nothing but my father tells me, they agree. becoming one
@tegf4 I didn't say anything about Matt 19, and I don't know what it has to do with the Trinity.
The meaning of a word is defined by its context. The same word can have different meanings. In John 10, when Jesus said He is one with the Father, it means united in purpose of bringing about the salvation of the elect. In claiming this, He was claiming to be God, and the Jews understood what He meant.
@tegf4 How can the context be the same when one is talking about marriage, another the nature of God, and the other are standing in Christ? Those are 3 different contexts.
I don't know what you're talking about with John 10 having 2 of 3. 2 of 3 what? Are you a Jehovah's Witness?
If you can not see I sorry, You can deny it all you want but the fact remains. John 10 has 2 of 3 of the trinity what happen to the 3rd? The 3rd is not involved of bringing about the salvation of the elect? As is what you said that was about.
The word (one) is used in the same Manner in everyone of those verses. You can deny it all you want but the fact remains.
Did Jesus never point blank said, yes, I am what I am? If he did There would be not problem.
@tegf4 If you demand that God speaks to you on your terms, I can assure you He will not. He opposes the proud. Why do you place arbitrary requirements that Jesus bring up the Holy Spirit in a certain chapter when He covers the Spirit's role in salvation in other places, such as John 14 and 16?
I don't understand what you're getting at with comparing the Trinity to marriage. What is your point?
Wow. I am not comparing trinity with marriage. I am comparing how the word (one) is used in the other verses which are telling that the objects do not become one object. They agree, have the same agenda, the same plan, work together. But the trinity people use (one) to say 3 r in the same person. If so then the other verses have to use that same thinking when they use it in the same manner. Can not keep changing formulas every verse. Have a good day I'm out.
@tegf4 No Trinitarian who knows what they're talking about says the Trinity is 3 in 1 person. That is misrepresenting the doctrine. It shows that you simply need to study this topic further. I've already corrected you on that before.
You're saying oneness in marriage is such and such, so oneness in the Trinity is the same. That is comparing marriage and the Trinity, and there is no biblical basis for doing so.
Thanks for the conversation. I hope you will humble yourself and study this more.
Oh bother, it seems you can read what I typed corectly and you gelling me I need to study.
I told you I am not comparing trinity to marriage. I gave other verses that have other topics how the word(ONE) was used and there are more. None of them are used to say two or more objects can be one. So why should we have the 3 is one for verse 1 john 5:7? I am not a trinity beleiver more evidence show a Gods head.
@tegf4 Jesus never said "I am what I am". To require the Creator of the universe to use your phraseology is very pompous. I'm sure you're aware of what He said in John 8:58.
It seems the passage we're discussing is applicable to you. John 10:25-26, "Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep."
Need to do some studying on the Hebrew word for God Elohim, it's used for Judges and God stands in the middle of those Judges(Psalms 82:1), used for angels Psalms 8:5) and used for rulers(same word), all bible dictionaries tell you the words for God mean ruler. So I believe the nature of the most high is not God but rather spirit. Also there's a zechariah cross reference to the Jude verse either the Angel of the LORD is Jesus in Zechariah or there are 2 angels of the LORD.
@teflonfanatic Isaiah 43:10 says, “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.”
There is clearly only one true God. Would you say Jesus the one true God or is He a false god?
@bsp256: Your argument is fallacious in the light of the hebrew and Greek meaning for the word God. He's not false because he's not against his father nor tries to take away from his glory. He's not the true one because that will make Jesus himself a liar at John 17:3 and he's not the source of all things but the father is. Can I ask you a question? Is the father(lord in all caps) The God of false Gods or true Gods in Deuteronomy 10:17?
@teflonfanatic What alternative do you propose to true and false?
As far as Deut 10:17, there were other gods, such as Baal and Molech. Obviously, they're not true gods; they're nothing at all in this world (1 Cor 8:4). Your question implies that you believe there are other gods. Would you say you're a polytheist? Are you a Jehovah's Witness in good standing?
@bsp256: Why can't someone be put into a position by the most high. If that one is made say shepherd of the flock or even lord(sarah called abraham lord). Then that one who is shepherding or lord is obviously not a false or true lord unless you believe the father gives women false lords and shepherds.
Again, another weak arguement to prop up the Trinity Doctrine. I suggest you do a more thurough research of the scriptures and ask for understanding. If satan can be called the god of this system of things then Jesus can be called a Mighty God in his own right. There are tons of scripture that identifies Jesus as being subordinate to god and i do not have enough charactors in the comment to list them all. Even before and after his prehuman he is still subordinate to the ALL MIGHTY FATHER JAH.
@konvict451 If it's such a weak argument, why don't you show me where I'm wrong? If you can demonstrate that, I'll take the video down.
If you believe Jesus is a Mighty God and The Father is another God, you are a polytheist. That is clearly false.
I agree that Jesus submits to the Father. That doesn't contradict the doctrine of the Trinity. Do you think that Trinitarians believe that Jesus should have gone off and done His own thing, and ignore the Father?
@konvict451 Still awaiting your response. Why is it that so many Jehovah's Witnesses only leave one comment and never check back? Are they scared that they will lose the debate and have to leave the Watchtower? Are they in a mind control cult that doesn't allow them the freedom to defend their beliefs on their own time?
@teflonfanatic According to the WTBTS, you can't learn about the Bible OUTSIDE of it.
"Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book," (Watchtower, July 1, 1973, p. 402).
"Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible," (WT, Oct. 1, 1967, p. 587).
Anyways, I won't tear down every scripture and argument proposed here because I don't think it would be helpful nor kind to you as a person. But as you can see... what seemed like a strong argument turns out to be a rather poor argument after a little objective reasoning. And so I'd advise you to reconsider your position and try to open your mind past such manmade doctrines as the trinity when you interpret the scriptures.
PS. I'm not a JW and I don't believe Jesus and God are the same person.
@SmalltimR Thank you for your attempt, but you have an avalanche of evidence concerning the deity of Christ to overcome. My puny attempt at a video from a few years ago is only the tip of the iceberg. I'm sorry I don't have time to do your arguments more justice, but it will be a little while before I'll be able to check back.
Secondly... Jesus himself acknowledge other gods when he argued his case against the religious leaders who accused him of blasphemy. So there's no need to ask the JW's how many gods there are, because Jesus already answered that question.
@SmalltimR I have looked it up, and it is abundantly clear that there is one God. You seem reluctant to admit that you're a polytheist. Here's a partial list of verses: Deut 6:4, Deut 32:39, 1 Sam 2:2, 2 Sam 7:22, 1 Kings 8:23, 2 Kings 5:15, 1 Chron 17:20, 2 Chron 6:14, Ps 86:10, Isa 43:10, Isa 44:6, 44:8, 45:5, 45:14, 45:18, 45:21, 45:22, 46:8-9, Mal 2:10, Mark 12:29, 12:32, John 1:14, 5:44, 17:3, Rom 3:30, 1 Co 8:4, Gal 3:20, Eph 4:4-6, 1 Tim 1:17, 2:5, James 2:19, 1 John 5:20, Jude 1:25
I just posted this no less than two comments ago! lol
Anyways... all comedy aside, based on these scriptures would you say Jesus was lying when he admitted that there were other gods to the Pharisees or pointed-out who the god of this world was?
And the answers to that are quite obvious. Therefore... it looks like there's a grey area in this scenario.
And until we admit it, the bible will not make sense.
@SmalltimR How can there be a gray area on how many gods there are? There is 1 God, or there is more than 1. In John 10:33, Jesus was quoting Psalm 82:6, which was referring to the judges of Israel. They were not gods, they were only acting as if they were gods. In verse 7, they are reminded that they will die like men. As far as Satan goes, there is one true God, and many false idols, which some call gods. Money could be my god, but that doesn't mean there are two gods. Satan is a false god.
Because a God is not defined by itself. But rather by the investment of those who worship it.
Just as the bible states that there is one God above all gods, likewise, one could rightfully claim that this is not their God and be correct. The god of this world is no doubt real and so was Moses' given authority over the Egyptians. Likewise... Jesus too is a real god yet all of which fall under the authority of the one true God. And yet... the bible recognizes gods who are not all false.
Taking it a step further, Jesus who is a god is not false god is he?
And yet, he is given full authority over the heavens and the earth.
And he certainly didn't have any issue with one of the apostles calling referring to him as his god either.
However, we know he is not the One true God as he is now seated at his right hand in heaven. Then again.. based on the definition of a god by the bible, Jesus is rightfully declared as such as he exercises judgement over us.
@SmalltimR As you say, there is only one true God. You have to decide whether Jesus is the one true God or a false God. Jesus said, "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
Well of course Jesus is not the One true God, can't you read?
He denied plain as day being God and referred to himself as the son of God over and over again. He worshiped and prayed to the One true God whom he called Father and declared greater than him.
Furthermore, he was resurrected by the One true God and given power and authority by Him. At which point He sat at His right hand in heaven.
@SmalltimR Doing the will of the Father doesn't go against the deity of Christ. Jesus submitted to the Father. There is only one God, how could Jesus do something apart from the Father?
What is the Memorial of Christ's Death*? The Memorial is when Jehovah's Witnesses remember the death of Jesus Christ. It is their most important meeting and is held on the evening of the Jewish month of Nisan 14. This year the Memorial of Christ's death will be held on APRIL 17th 2011. You are warmly invited to attend this special memorial celebration. Contact your local KINGDOM HALL of Jehovah's Witnesses for details.
The Watchtower and Bible Tract Society on pg 27 of their '' Should you believe in the Trinity" brochure told an out right lie on the Journal of Biblical Literature by quoting it to support their "a god" rendering of John 1:1-when instead the Journal of Biblical Literature said the opposite and emphatically demanded that the word was God. This is scholastic purposeful dishonesty and a fruit of a false prophet. What is funny is they have had 20 years to correct it and haven't.
John 3:16 (King James Version) 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Mr. Bsp... you suddenly accused me of not believing Jesus earlier just because I tried to show some facts.. my aim is unity among followers of Jesus... I know some deviated groups but it is our job to be wise and with love helping them... bye bye...
WOW! AM I BEING JUDGED HERE? LISTEN! I ONLY REPLIED. I AM NOT PART OF JEHOVAH WITNESS! I BELIEVE THAT BORN AGAIN MEANS ACCEPTING THAT YAHSHUA THE MESSIAH IS THE TRUE WAY. HERE I WANT TO REMIND YOU TO BE CAREFUL BEFORE JUDGING PEOPLE... ONE SPIRIT OF ANTI-CHRIST=JUDGING... SURELY IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT YAHSHUA, YOU ARE GOING TO HELL... BARUCH HASHEM ADONAI!
@resteedharma Jesus said to judge with righteous judgment (John 7:24). In Matt 7 he was condemning hypocritical judging. However, you've JUDGED me of sinfully judging you, right? That would be you doing everything you've accused me of. I agree that if you don't accept Jesus you're going to hell. You have to accept Him for who He is, not as a figment of your imagination.
1 John 2:22-23 (King James Version) 22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
@resteedharma That is not the only test for false teaching. Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Hindus, Muslims and many other religions have some sort of belief in Jesus, and may even believe He was the Jewish Messiah (the Christ). However, you wouldn't say all of them are true, would you?
@resteedharma You said, "again you judge me..." That is you judging me. You think it's wrong to judge others, but you are judging me. It's really quite a simple concept. Maybe I'm not explaining it properly. When someone alleges that another person is sinning, that is judging. You've judged me as being judgmental. Take the log out of your own eye, you hypocrite.
If you study the Bible you'll see that there is one God and Jesus is Him. Don't take my word for it. Study the Bible!
@bsp256 You are correct in it. Earlier you said if I denied Lord Jesus just because I talked about the biblical unitarian? That is not my church or my place. But they are not unitarian universalism. And you suddenly said if I don't believe Jesus as Lord, I will die in sins. I commented and you suddenly accused me. I am sorry, I am saved. I believe and accept Lord Jesus. No more. I am a part of non denominational group. I am NOT oneness, JW, uni, bini, and etc that reject the whole fact of Jesus.
@resteedharma Your original comment said, "...there is Biblical Unitarian." Clearly you can see how I would think that you believe there is biblical unitarianism. Either you're not Trinitarian, or there is some sort of language barrier or you've just been playing games. Please comment elsewhere. I'm no longer interested in giving Scriptural truths to someone who doesn't listen or doesn't care.
Matthew 7 3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
@resteedharma As for Matt 7, once we've removed the beam from our own eye, we are supposed to help with our brother's mote (verse 5). You're judging me as being judgmental, but you don't realize that you're judging me. That is your beam. Once you remove it, you can help me with any motes.
John 7:24, "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
1 Cor 5:12 "For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?"
Oh .. I just had my youtube account and I tried to see how it works. Sorry.
Shalom Alaika...
Greetings from your messianic sister in Indonesia but I join the non denominational movement...
Just because I commented here, you suddenly accused and judged and honestly, you judged without seeking for the truth. I don't think so Yahshua liked that.
@resteedharma If you deny the deity of Christ, you're not my sister. You haven't been adopted into God's family.
Jesus said in John 8:24, "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
Where it says "I am He" in English, it is "ego eimi" in Greek. That is a reference to Exodus 3:14 where Yahweh says I AM. In John 8:58 Jesus makes this clear, and the Jews tried to stone Him.
There is unitarian universalism that is not biblical and there is Biblical Unitarian. But for me personally, the most important thing is: Yahshua the Messiah is the true way for us to have salvation. Simple.
@resteedharma If you don't believe Jesus is God, you will die in your sins (John 8:24). Why don't you respond to the points in the video? Who is the First and the Last? Who is the Alpha and Omega? Do you not think those terms are synonymous?
I answered your questions. We dont believe in the trinity doctrine. The word trinity is not in the bible, but many pagan religions do belive in it. I comes from ancient Babylon, as many teachings do.
@Starlababy No, you haven't answered my question. I've asked the same question about 5 times now. How is the A&O identified as the First and the Last in Rev 22:13 when Jesus is the First and the Last? It's really a very simple question. If you don't know just admit it.
I know you don't believe in the Trinity. However, you shouldn't misrepresent others' beliefs. I don't know of any pagan religions that believe in a trinity. Name one. However there are many false unitarian religions like yours.
Yes, rev.1:18 its is speaking about Jesus. But that doesent make him his father. His is a seperate individual. Read the scriptures I put in the last comment i sent.
I believe the alpha and omega are the beginning and the ending letters in the greek alphabet. I was taught that the father has no beginning or end to his life span. But the son Jesus had a beginning to his life read Colossians1:15.It says that. Jesus himself said the father is greater than he is at John 14:28. Also he is subjection to his father at 1 Corinthians 11:3. Also John 5:19 is interesting as he just does as his father is doing, not his own thoughts. He is not his father, as we are not
@Starlababy There is no biblical scholar who would provide an interpretation of one verse by jumping all over the Bible. I'm asking you to explain Rev 22:13, you must at least attempt to explain that verse.
The alpha and th omega is the God with now beginning and no end, God almighty, and Jehovah is his name. Ps.83:18. It is not Jesus, he had a beginning, as he was the firstborn of all creation, by God almighty himself. Hope this answers your question, probably won't thought. Take care.
@Starlababy Clearly there is a communication barrier between us. I'm talking about Revelation 22:13. In the NWT it says, "I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
All I'm saying is that the Alpha and Omega is identified as the First and the Last. You say The Alpha and Omega is the Father. Surely you admit that Jesus is the First and the Last from Rev 1:17-18. I would like to find out how the Alpha and Omega is identified as the First and the Last.
It is God almighty who is the alpha and the omega, Jehovah. No beginning he had and no end. Jesus had a beginning, he is Gods first born son , the beginning of creation. The bible says he is Gods son over and over again. Read the gospel accounts. He is not God Jehovah, but his son. He, Jesus worshiped God, and drew strenght from him , when going through various trials. Hope this answerd you questions.
@Starlababy No, that doesn't answer my questions, but thanks for trying. Rev. 22:13 says that the A&O, First and Last, Beginning and End is coming quickly. Who do you say the A&O, First and Last, Beginning and End is? Clearly, that is Jesus. He is the Alpha and Omega.
Also, Alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet (the beginning). Omega is the last letter (the end). All three of those terms are conveying the same thought.
And yet another Jehovah's Witness (Starlababy) wilts under the pressure. This video has been here for almost 3 years and NONE of them have responded to the arguments. I hope that someday one of them at least attempts to respond to the arguments.
The bible is my source of information. Look at John 20 verse 17. Jesus speaking here talks about his God. He worships the almighty God just as we do. Always talks about him as his father. We know we are not our father, just as he knows he is not his father. I have to go fornow.
@Starlababy You still haven't responded to the verses in the video. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega (Rev. 22:13), which means He is God almighty (Rev. 1:8).
As for John 20:17, Jesus was fully human, and was under the law (Gal 4:4)--even the 1st of the Ten Commandments. He had to satisfy the law completely. He submits to the Father, but that doesn't mean He's inferior. If you submit to your boss, that doesn't make him superhuman or you subhuman. Furthermore, He is called God only 11 verses later.
Jehovah is the only true God. the almihgy. Jesus is his son his firstborn created by jehovah. He worked with his father. He is the king of Gods kingdom, to rule it for 1,ooo years. Then he hands it over to his father for eterinity.
@Starlababy What is the source for your information? Clearly, your source isn't the Bible.
Do you have any thoughts on my video and the verses I cite that refute your views? (I'm asking you for the reason for your hope. Doesn't 1 Peter 3:15 obligate you to respond?)
1stly, who is "an angel of the Lord" (and) or "the angel of the Lord" (various capitalizations), then ask, who is "one of the chief princes". And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?
"..Repent for the kingdom of Yahweh is at hand" Mat 4:17
"Repent therefore and be converted that your sins may be blotted out.." Acts 3:19
We repent of sin by keeping Yahweh's Laws. "Go and sin no more.." This is not bribing the judge. A criminal who is given a pardon should not return to a life of crime. He must strive to be law abiding otherwise his sins will not be blotted out. You can't sin and have the laws in your heart at the same time. Sinners will not enter - I Cor 6:9-10
That sounds like the Mormons article of faith #3: "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."
I ask them what I will ask you. Have you kept the law? Have you stopped looking with lust? Lust is adultery. Have you stopped lying? Do you love your neighbor as yourself, and God with all your heart, always, without fail?
The law isn't for us to keep; it's not possible. It is to show us we need a Savior (Gal 3:24)
You say that its not possible for us to keep the law of Yahweh, but how did Abraham did it? Genesis 26:5? Its just like learning to drive or a baby learning how to walk. Sin is something we overcome by practicing the law keeping life style rather than living in law breaking lifestyle. This is what repentance and conversion is all about. We live the law keeping life style the Savior did.
I John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk exactly as He walked.
Are you saying we keep the commands of Jesus (John 14:21) in order to get saved? Or are you saying we keep them because we are saved by grace alone through faith alone?
For all practical purposes, we are saved by both repentance/conversion (works) and the shed blood of the Savior. The sacrifice of Messiah does not apply to anyone who does not repent of sin and convert to the law keeping life style that Yahshua lived.
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Do not deceive yourselves. Neither fornicators, ...will inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh. I Corin 6:9-10.
There are so many other scriptures that show this.
Where is your proof that Repentance + Works + the Blood = Salvation?
Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.
Romans 11:5-6
So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
For God do loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so we may not perish but have ever lasting life! Does that not mean Jesus is seperate from God
Rev. 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God who is who was and who is to come Rev. 1:17-18: I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One I was dead and behold I am alive for ever and ever! The parallels are clear here. Alpha = the First, Omega = the Last. Who is = I am the Living One. Who was = I was dead. "and who is to come" = "I am alive for ever and ever" Jesus is Jehovah.
You do not need to be forgiven of anything, especially "sin." If God or Jesus made you a sinner, then what do they expect. Its seems like they encourage sin by continuing to remain a mystery.
Why are we being judged for something adam and eve did. Are we not all judged individually?
The bible seems epic and childish right from Genesis.
So, if someone stole your wallet, you don't care? Why don't they need to be forgiven? You think it's unreasonable that God would make the thief account for stealing your wallet?
Are you an atheist? If not, what are your beliefs?
Sometimes people are jerks and steal. It is was it is. Sometimes there is no justice.
I think it is unreasonable for god to kill someone for stealing.
you can say i am agnostic.
everyone is agnostic in a way, because you cannot get around the fact that no one can truthfully say that they are absolutely sure of what they believe. If they do, then delusions have taken over.
Since you aren't certain of your beliefs you assume that no one has enough information to be certain of their beliefs, either. Isn't it possible that there is enough info somewhere to be certain that Christianity is correct, but you're just not aware of it?
God certainly will kill someone for stealing. He'll also kill people for lying & disobeying their parents. You're guilty of those things, and of course you disagree with the punishment you've been promised. That's not really surprising.
Either you've misunderstood the Bible, or you're not being truthful. The Bible doesn't say Jesus prayed to Yahweh. It says He prayed to the Father, and the Father is the one who spoke when Jesus was baptized.
Why don't you respond to the topic of the video. Jesus is the First and the Last. Yahweh is the First and the Last. Unless you believe there is more than one First and Last, Jesus must be Yahweh.
Do you really think you can completely & fully understand God's awesomeness? How can you say that doesnt make sense when God even made you & everything else. There is alot about God we don't understand. John 14:9. Also did you hear what he said about three different versus in Rev saying that Jesus is the first & last? There are three co exsistent, co eternal persons making up one God...It is written throughout the ENTIRE bible I suggest you read it so that you will have the truth.
Everytime Jesus was on earth he was always praying to Jehova, and in some occassions asking Jehova what to do. if they had the same authority Jesus wouldnt have done that. I would like ur aim or sometiing so we can talk about this. Its really interesting. John 10:30 Means jesus and Jehova are one in thought. they had the same motive. But then again... it leaves out the holy spirit...?
Do u know what begotten means? It means thats the only person God made with his own hands. if u believe in the trinity then ur basically saying God Jesus and the Holy spirit have the same authority. Which is wrong.
Jesus is a powerful being. but he does not have the same authority as his father. Its impossible. God made jesus. do u know John 3:16, for God so love the world he gave his only begotten som.
Jesus is eternal, and He's God, but He surrendered His authority when He came to Earth (Philippians 2:7). You don't have a proper understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity.
In John 3:16, the Greek word is monogenes, and means unique, or only. The KJV was written in 1611, and English has changed in the last 400 years.
Hmmm Impossible you say? hehe us humans thinking we know better than God. I personally wouldnt dare to try & say that things are impossible for God. If he made everything why is it so difficult for people to beleive he created the trinity? John 14:9...Anyone who has seen me has seen the father. How can you say, 'show us the father;? Don't you beleive that I am the father, and the father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather it is the father living in me.
That doesn't explain the whole situation. Deut. 6:4 says Yahweh is one. In John 10:30, Jesus says my Father and I are one. That is what the Jews understood, because they were about to stone Him for claiming to be God (John 10:33).
I think it's kind of funny that you agree with the Jews that Jesus isn't God.
bsp ur wrong. the jews believe that Jesus was a prophet, not the son of God. I for one believe that he is the son of God and that he is a God. God means Powerful being.
Did you look at the verse I gave you? The Jews knew Jesus was claiming the Sh'ma for Himself, and claiming to be God. They didn't believe it, so they were about to stone Him.
Believing in more than one god is polytheism, and is a biblically untenable position. Check out Isaiah 40-46.
obviously the person himself who made this, doesnt understand god, or jesus. god is all knowing but he is also all loving. people need to understand that YOU CAN NOT HAVE LIGHT WITHOUT DARK.THE FATHER MADE BOTH AND HE LOVES BOTH EQUALLY.THEREFORE HE SENT HIS SON JESUS WHO WAS JUST LIKE HIS FATHER ALL LOVING AND ALL FORGIVING,TO TEACH US A LESSON. LOVE GOD AND EVERYONE IN EXISTENCE EVEN PEOPLE WHO HATE BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE ARE THE ONES WHO DONT UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF LOVE.UCANT FIRE WITH FIRE!
I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Are you saying I shouldn't tell JWs they're going to hell? If it's true (and it certainly is), it is the most loving thing I can do.
The notion of having a debt paid is contradtictive to forgiveness and mercy. If someone owes me 1000 dollars, and i am angry with them , but somebody goes "hey man, ill pay the 1000 you owe" and gives me the 1000 dollars, i will no longer be angry with the man , not because i forgave him, but simply because, well, i got the 1000 i wanted. I cannot say that i forgave him or had any type of mercy in this incident if after all, i got what i was owed.
Although we do sin against God and although He could destroy us all righteously so, and would still be fair, the Bible shows that His character is not like this, but that He delights in mercy and forgiveness. Also, MANY times people in the Bible (old and new testaments) people were forgiven ,just like that, with no transaction being required (blood sacrifice) .
To me, God is the "Master" in the parable in "Mathew 18:21" . notice that the evil servant demanded a payment and the Master was angry because He had forgiven him FREELY ! but the servant demanded a payment
Christians forgive because they have been forgiven. God doesn't need to be forgiven for anything He's done. He is the perfect, holy, righteous, just Judge of the universe, and you must give account for every thought word and deed you've ever committed. Repent and trust in Jesus alone (Mark 1:15).
I'll let you have the last word. Thanks for the conversation and your time.
so many false teachings in your video. is your video saying that since God is a just Judge, he DEMANDS a payment be made since He cannot simply forgive the debt ?
I think this is the crux of our disagreement. Yes, justice DEMANDS payment. The definition of justice is ensuring that the innocent go free, and the guilty are properly punished.
We have sinned against an infinitely holy God. We have transgressed His law. The penalty for sinning against an infinitely holy being is infinite. Only an infinite payment can pay our penalty. Any finite payment leaves an infinite penalty left to be paid.
Jesus had to have blood of infinite value to pay for sin.
you contradict yourself so bad. You say that justice is about ensuring the innocents go free and that the guilty are properly punished, but your theory.doctrine is the opposite of this. You teach that an innocent was punished so that guilties can be free. notive your obvious contradictions. not only do you contradict the Word ,but you have no problem contradicting yourself neither. Well, i beleive in a different God that doesnt DEMAND payment.
"I and the father are one", yes thats true, they were united. notice that your god Jesus prayed to God that the christians would be one just like he and the Father were. well, we can be united, but not the same being
Deuteronomy 6:4 is a foundational statement of the Old Testament: "the LORD is one." Jesus wasn't just claiming to be unified with the Father. He was claiming to be the LORD, and the Jews understood that full well. They picked up stones to stone Him for claiming to be God (John 10:33).
"how many gods are there?" , well if Jesus is a god, then there are atleast 2, since your god Jesus has a God. even the resurrected, glorified, first and the last Jesus does.
"'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name."
I agree that if Jesus is a god, then there are two gods. That is what the NWT says. What translation do you use?
Again, Philippians 2 says Jesus became nothing. That would make Him less than the Father in certain respects (John 14:28) Do you think God in the flesh would live as an atheist? Wouldn't He continue to commune with the Father?
1. I never said that Jesus is God because He rebuked demons. All that does is prove that He's not Michael the archangel. We will judge the angels (1 Cor. 6:3).
3. Jesus is fully God and fully man. The Alpha and Omega is the First and the Last (Rev. 22:13).
Maybe you should watch the video again, and pay a little bit closer attention. Don't just angrily respond. The truth can stand any test I can throw at it, right?
the "fully god and fully man" theory makes no sense . thats like saying someone is fully tall while being fully midget. its an oxymoron . HE cannot be anything that isnt God . and humans are not god . He cant make himself not be God. He is always God period. God cannot make a part of himself not be all knowing as Jesus was not all knowing
Can your god enter into creation? Are you saying that your god could never think of a way to become a man? Why do you place such limitations on him? Do you have a verse that says he can't do such a thing? How do you know God can't be fully God and fully man?
I understand that the theory makes no sense to you. However, it doesn't violate any laws of logic. Your lack of understanding doesn't place any limitations on God.
Can God kill himself ? cam God lie ? can God be tempted by sin ? can God make himself not be God ? can God make atheism be the true religion and monotheism be the correct religion at the same time? Can God turn half of himself into a full non-god human? the answer is no. your god has limitations . My God is perfect and all powerful, that is why he cannot do these things. but your God can make himself not unknowing since you god Jesus was clearly not all knowing even by his own admissions .
God didnt "become" a dove in the NT. HE appeared as. there is a difference between manifesting Himself as something and becoming something .If God "appeared" to be flesh , then it still would not be real flesh , unless you are denying that Jesus was real flesh? God cannot become non-god , but He can make manifestations or visions. If Jesus was God, anyone that touched him or looked at him wouldve died. If somebody tried to hit the "dove" manifestation, they wouldve surely died
many, but i study hebrew and use lexicons so any version will do since i know what the originals said anyway . I like the ISR version and the NKJ version for beginners
Maybe you could be a little more forthcoming with what you believe. Do you have any association at all with Jehovah's Witnesses? Do you believe that only 144k are going to heaven. Do you believe that there will be paradise earth with the Old Testament believers, and non-born again believers?
Rom.9:3-5 "For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen[a] according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen."
1Jn.5:20 "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
And,you're right,Isaiah prophesied that Jesus would be called a "mighty god". I think you should look at that one again. mighty god,not ALMIGHTY God. Bit of a difference don't you think?
Yahweh is the Mighty God (Isaiah 10:21). In 1 Thess 4:16, an archangel shouts. That doesn't mean Jesus shouts with the voice of an archangedl because He is an archangel. Don't fall for the Watchtower's garbage.
Furthermore, you didn't respond to hardly any of the content in the video. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega--God Almighty.
1 Thess.4:16 says,"because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangels voice.." Why would Jesus use the voice of a lesser angel? If you're right wouldn't he just use His own voice?
may i offer you a course in bible scripture clarification?
ThirdNUnion 2 months ago
@byronmorris1990 4. It really seems to me as though you're scared of me. Why are you lashing out in anger when I'm trying to be reasonable?
5. Is it so crazy that I might not want to email some random stranger on the internet, especially when they don't explain who they are or what they want to discuss?
It's clear you're not able to think through things logically, but I do enjoy getting your goat. I will assume, since you refuse to explain what you believe that you are in fact a Satanist.
bsp256 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bsp256
Jesus is Lord, but not THE LORD!! Because THE LORD is the Almighty Father(YHWH)
Jesus is Lord, but to the glory of GOD, who is the Father!!
When the word "LORD" is in all capitals it is a reference to the Father(Jehovah). Jehovah is the LORD our GOD!!
In other words, THE GOD(LORD) is Jehovah!! Jesus is the Son of the Most High, and Jehovah is the Most High GOD!!
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the Most High over all the earth. Psalm.83:18
epic103 1 month ago
@byronmorris1990 1. You say there are many lost souls, so you want to have a private rather than public conversation. That doesn't make sense to me. Shouldn't you want a public conversation so more people might see your point?
2. You object to my calling you rude. Yet you've called me rude, evil, ignorant, and lost. Don't you think it's hypocritical to call me those but object when I call you rude?
3. Do you seriously think I've rejected your beliefs when I don't even know what you believe?
bsp256 3 months ago
@byronmorris1990 If you want to see a rude person, look in the mirror. I have no idea who you are--whether you're a JW or a Christian or a Satanist or a Nigerian internet scam artist. You didn't address anyone in particular or even say "please." You just commanded someone to email you for some unknown purpose. Needless to say I'm not interested in a private conversation with you. If you want to show me something, have the guts to do it on this public forum.
bsp256 3 months ago
@byronmorris1990 You want me to email you so that you can put me on your Viagra emailing list? Who do you want to email you and why?
bsp256 3 months ago
(Matthew 10:32-39) 32 “Everyone, then, that confesses union with me before men, I will also confess union with him before my Father who is in the heavens; 33 but whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. 34 Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law.
TheButtascotchbro1 5 months ago
@TheButtascotchbro1 What's your point? Do you have any comment on the video?
bsp256 5 months ago
36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. 37 He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me.
TheButtascotchbro1 5 months ago
38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it. . .
TheButtascotchbro1 5 months ago
The Bible is sometimes a difficult book to read, as the Ethiopian eunuch realized while reading the Bible allowed in Acts 27: "8 Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: “Do you actually know what you are reading?” 31 He said: “Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guided me?” (NWT)
IMJW1000 6 months ago
continued...
A quick look through an interlinear Bible will show that Jehovah and Jesus are both called 'elohim', as are kings, magistrates and judges, prophets, angels, great military heroes, the religious hierarchy of Israel.
Through usage we can see the word, 'elohim' and its Greek equivalent, 'theos' mean a person of great strength, power or authority. There are many such persons in the Bible, so there are many 'gods'.
IMJW1000 6 months ago
continued...
Exodus 22:28, "Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people."
Here, he forbids the faithful from reviling the religious hierarchy of Israel.
Psalms 136:2, "O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever." Here, Jehovah is called the elohim of elohim, the god of gods. The other gods include the kings of Israel.
IMJW1000 6 months ago
continued...
All quotes are from the King James 1611 translation:
Psalms 82:1, "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods." Here, Jehovah stands among the high priests, scribes and Pharisees and judges them.
Psalms 82:6, "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Here Jehovah tells the high priests, scribes and Pharisees that he has called them gods and that they are the sons of the most high God.
IMJW1000 6 months ago
continued...
Such is the case with the word, 'elohim'. It is translated as 'god', but its' usage is much broader than the modern word 'god'. Today, the English word 'god' means 'deity', either the true God or a false god. The word 'elohim' and its' Greek equivalent, 'theos' do not mean deity.
IMJW1000 6 months ago
continued...
I appreciate the measure tone of your argument. You addressed many issues and asked several questions. I will answer one question and tell you how many gods the Jehovah's Witnesses believe there to be. Sometimes, when a word is translated from an ancient language spoken by a distant peoples thousands of years ago, something is lost in the translation.
IMJW1000 6 months ago
Matthew 19:5-6 "For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh..." Using your words definition "these three are one" must mean one God 100% in three beings. We must also assume that once a man and woman join in marriage, they become one single solitary person yet "mysteriously" two beings because this passage uses the same theology.
tegf4 8 months ago
@tegf4 That is all false. God is one being. God is 3 persons. For example, a brick has being, but not personhood. You are one person in one being. God is 3 persons in one being. The Trinity doesn't violate any law of logic.
bsp256 8 months ago
@bsp256
You are saying Matt is false? or If we assume that the way a word is use in one verse means different when use in the same manner in another, then which way should it be used in any manner?
if the word One mean, the same thing, then it should be the same in the other. Both are using the word the same but man and woman do not become as one in flesh that is. I and the father are one could mean on the same level, same thought, I do nothing but my father tells me, they agree. becoming one
tegf4 8 months ago
@tegf4 I didn't say anything about Matt 19, and I don't know what it has to do with the Trinity.
The meaning of a word is defined by its context. The same word can have different meanings. In John 10, when Jesus said He is one with the Father, it means united in purpose of bringing about the salvation of the elect. In claiming this, He was claiming to be God, and the Jews understood what He meant.
bsp256 8 months ago
@bsp256
But the context is the same in all the verses I gave to you. John 10 has 2 of 3 the 3rd is not involved of bringing about the salvation of the elect?
tegf4 8 months ago
@tegf4 How can the context be the same when one is talking about marriage, another the nature of God, and the other are standing in Christ? Those are 3 different contexts.
I don't know what you're talking about with John 10 having 2 of 3. 2 of 3 what? Are you a Jehovah's Witness?
bsp256 8 months ago
@bsp256
If you can not see I sorry, You can deny it all you want but the fact remains. John 10 has 2 of 3 of the trinity what happen to the 3rd? The 3rd is not involved of bringing about the salvation of the elect? As is what you said that was about.
The word (one) is used in the same Manner in everyone of those verses. You can deny it all you want but the fact remains.
Did Jesus never point blank said, yes, I am what I am? If he did There would be not problem.
tegf4 8 months ago
@tegf4 If you demand that God speaks to you on your terms, I can assure you He will not. He opposes the proud. Why do you place arbitrary requirements that Jesus bring up the Holy Spirit in a certain chapter when He covers the Spirit's role in salvation in other places, such as John 14 and 16?
I don't understand what you're getting at with comparing the Trinity to marriage. What is your point?
bsp256 8 months ago
@bsp256
Wow. I am not comparing trinity with marriage. I am comparing how the word (one) is used in the other verses which are telling that the objects do not become one object. They agree, have the same agenda, the same plan, work together. But the trinity people use (one) to say 3 r in the same person. If so then the other verses have to use that same thinking when they use it in the same manner. Can not keep changing formulas every verse. Have a good day I'm out.
tegf4 8 months ago
@tegf4 No Trinitarian who knows what they're talking about says the Trinity is 3 in 1 person. That is misrepresenting the doctrine. It shows that you simply need to study this topic further. I've already corrected you on that before.
You're saying oneness in marriage is such and such, so oneness in the Trinity is the same. That is comparing marriage and the Trinity, and there is no biblical basis for doing so.
Thanks for the conversation. I hope you will humble yourself and study this more.
bsp256 8 months ago
@bsp256
Oh bother, it seems you can read what I typed corectly and you gelling me I need to study.
I told you I am not comparing trinity to marriage. I gave other verses that have other topics how the word(ONE) was used and there are more. None of them are used to say two or more objects can be one. So why should we have the 3 is one for verse 1 john 5:7? I am not a trinity beleiver more evidence show a Gods head.
tegf4 8 months ago
@tegf4 Jesus never said "I am what I am". To require the Creator of the universe to use your phraseology is very pompous. I'm sure you're aware of what He said in John 8:58.
It seems the passage we're discussing is applicable to you. John 10:25-26, "Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep."
bsp256 8 months ago
@bsp256
Romans 12:5 states, "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1 Corinthians 10:17 where it proclaims, "For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
John 10:30, " I and my Father are one." So I ask, where does this leave the Holy Spirit since He is not mentioned?
tegf4 8 months ago
Need to do some studying on the Hebrew word for God Elohim, it's used for Judges and God stands in the middle of those Judges(Psalms 82:1), used for angels Psalms 8:5) and used for rulers(same word), all bible dictionaries tell you the words for God mean ruler. So I believe the nature of the most high is not God but rather spirit. Also there's a zechariah cross reference to the Jude verse either the Angel of the LORD is Jesus in Zechariah or there are 2 angels of the LORD.
teflonfanatic 8 months ago
@teflonfanatic Isaiah 43:10 says, “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.”
There is clearly only one true God. Would you say Jesus the one true God or is He a false god?
bsp256 8 months ago
@bsp256: Your argument is fallacious in the light of the hebrew and Greek meaning for the word God. He's not false because he's not against his father nor tries to take away from his glory. He's not the true one because that will make Jesus himself a liar at John 17:3 and he's not the source of all things but the father is. Can I ask you a question? Is the father(lord in all caps) The God of false Gods or true Gods in Deuteronomy 10:17?
teflonfanatic 8 months ago
@teflonfanatic What alternative do you propose to true and false?
As far as Deut 10:17, there were other gods, such as Baal and Molech. Obviously, they're not true gods; they're nothing at all in this world (1 Cor 8:4). Your question implies that you believe there are other gods. Would you say you're a polytheist? Are you a Jehovah's Witness in good standing?
bsp256 8 months ago
@bsp256: Why can't someone be put into a position by the most high. If that one is made say shepherd of the flock or even lord(sarah called abraham lord). Then that one who is shepherding or lord is obviously not a false or true lord unless you believe the father gives women false lords and shepherds.
teflonfanatic 7 months ago
Again, another weak arguement to prop up the Trinity Doctrine. I suggest you do a more thurough research of the scriptures and ask for understanding. If satan can be called the god of this system of things then Jesus can be called a Mighty God in his own right. There are tons of scripture that identifies Jesus as being subordinate to god and i do not have enough charactors in the comment to list them all. Even before and after his prehuman he is still subordinate to the ALL MIGHTY FATHER JAH.
konvict451 8 months ago
@konvict451 If it's such a weak argument, why don't you show me where I'm wrong? If you can demonstrate that, I'll take the video down.
If you believe Jesus is a Mighty God and The Father is another God, you are a polytheist. That is clearly false.
I agree that Jesus submits to the Father. That doesn't contradict the doctrine of the Trinity. Do you think that Trinitarians believe that Jesus should have gone off and done His own thing, and ignore the Father?
I look forward to your response.
bsp256 8 months ago
@konvict451 Still awaiting your response. Why is it that so many Jehovah's Witnesses only leave one comment and never check back? Are they scared that they will lose the debate and have to leave the Watchtower? Are they in a mind control cult that doesn't allow them the freedom to defend their beliefs on their own time?
bsp256 8 months ago
@bsp256: I'm not konvict but as a JW i've left many comments, ones that I learned OUTSIDE the JW's
teflonfanatic 7 months ago
@teflonfanatic According to the WTBTS, you can't learn about the Bible OUTSIDE of it.
"Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book," (Watchtower, July 1, 1973, p. 402).
"Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible," (WT, Oct. 1, 1967, p. 587).
bsp256 7 months ago
@bsp256: are all catholics, catholics, are all Jews jews? Faulty reasoning
teflonfanatic 7 months ago
Anyways, I won't tear down every scripture and argument proposed here because I don't think it would be helpful nor kind to you as a person. But as you can see... what seemed like a strong argument turns out to be a rather poor argument after a little objective reasoning. And so I'd advise you to reconsider your position and try to open your mind past such manmade doctrines as the trinity when you interpret the scriptures.
PS. I'm not a JW and I don't believe Jesus and God are the same person.
SmalltimR 9 months ago
@SmalltimR Thank you for your attempt, but you have an avalanche of evidence concerning the deity of Christ to overcome. My puny attempt at a video from a few years ago is only the tip of the iceberg. I'm sorry I don't have time to do your arguments more justice, but it will be a little while before I'll be able to check back.
Thanks for your comments.
bsp256 9 months ago
@bsp256
Your welcome and thanks for your participation.
I look forward to hearing more about your own research and experiences with regards to the topic.
SmalltimR 9 months ago
Rev 21:6 clearly not Jesus speaking(see next verse)
Rev. 1:17 does not say Alpha and Omega(not equivalents at all).
Isaiah 44:6 has been long known as work trickery as people try to pass off the pronoun "his" as Jehovah when it actually refers to Israel.
Rev 1:8 is quite clearly Jehovah's salvation that was given to us(think about it).
John 10:30 What's wrong with Jesus and God being one in purpose? wouldn't this harmonize with Jesus saying he can nothing of his own will?
SmalltimR 9 months ago
@SmalltimR In Rev. 21:6 it is the Beginning and End speaking. Jesus is identified as the Beginning and End in Revelation 22.
Maybe you should put Revelation 1:8 alongside Revelation 1:17-18. Those are obviously parallel.
bsp256 9 months ago
@bsp256
(beginning and end) Yes , true.
But beginning and end(with Jesus) could also mean his death and resurrection. However, this does not equate Alpha and Omega does it?
Here's what you're trying to propose as equivalents:
prōtos kai o eschato - Beginning and End.
alpha kai to ōmega - Alpha and Omega
And no matter how hard you try, you cannot make these two phrases equivalents. They are different, with different weight and meaning.
SmalltimR 9 months ago
@SmalltimR Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you.
You realize that Alpha is the first letter in the Greek alphabet, and Omega is the last. Here's what I meant when I said compare Rev 1:8 and 1:17-18.
Alpha=Beginning=First
Omega=End=Last
who is=I am the Living One
who was=I was dead
who is to come=I am alive forever
bsp256 8 months ago
@SmalltimR Concerning Rev 21:6, who is the one who gives water without cost (remember John 4:14).
On Isaiah 44:6, I have no idea what you're talking about. Yahweh is the first and the last.
John 10:30: Of course He was one in purpose, but the Jews understood what He was claiming, and attempted to stone Him for claiming to be God.
bsp256 8 months ago
Secondly... Jesus himself acknowledge other gods when he argued his case against the religious leaders who accused him of blasphemy. So there's no need to ask the JW's how many gods there are, because Jesus already answered that question.
Look it up
SmalltimR 9 months ago
@SmalltimR Are you saying there is more than one God?
bsp256 9 months ago
@bsp256
Did you look it up?
Let the bible answer you rather than asking people.
SmalltimR 9 months ago
@SmalltimR I have looked it up, and it is abundantly clear that there is one God. You seem reluctant to admit that you're a polytheist. Here's a partial list of verses: Deut 6:4, Deut 32:39, 1 Sam 2:2, 2 Sam 7:22, 1 Kings 8:23, 2 Kings 5:15, 1 Chron 17:20, 2 Chron 6:14, Ps 86:10, Isa 43:10, Isa 44:6, 44:8, 45:5, 45:14, 45:18, 45:21, 45:22, 46:8-9, Mal 2:10, Mark 12:29, 12:32, John 1:14, 5:44, 17:3, Rom 3:30, 1 Co 8:4, Gal 3:20, Eph 4:4-6, 1 Tim 1:17, 2:5, James 2:19, 1 John 5:20, Jude 1:25
bsp256 8 months ago
@bsp256
Reluctant?
I just posted this no less than two comments ago! lol
Anyways... all comedy aside, based on these scriptures would you say Jesus was lying when he admitted that there were other gods to the Pharisees or pointed-out who the god of this world was?
And the answers to that are quite obvious. Therefore... it looks like there's a grey area in this scenario.
And until we admit it, the bible will not make sense.
SmalltimR 8 months ago
@SmalltimR How can there be a gray area on how many gods there are? There is 1 God, or there is more than 1. In John 10:33, Jesus was quoting Psalm 82:6, which was referring to the judges of Israel. They were not gods, they were only acting as if they were gods. In verse 7, they are reminded that they will die like men. As far as Satan goes, there is one true God, and many false idols, which some call gods. Money could be my god, but that doesn't mean there are two gods. Satan is a false god.
bsp256 8 months ago
@bsp256
Because a God is not defined by itself. But rather by the investment of those who worship it.
Just as the bible states that there is one God above all gods, likewise, one could rightfully claim that this is not their God and be correct. The god of this world is no doubt real and so was Moses' given authority over the Egyptians. Likewise... Jesus too is a real god yet all of which fall under the authority of the one true God. And yet... the bible recognizes gods who are not all false.
SmalltimR 8 months ago
@bsp256
Taking it a step further, Jesus who is a god is not false god is he?
And yet, he is given full authority over the heavens and the earth.
And he certainly didn't have any issue with one of the apostles calling referring to him as his god either.
However, we know he is not the One true God as he is now seated at his right hand in heaven. Then again.. based on the definition of a god by the bible, Jesus is rightfully declared as such as he exercises judgement over us.
SmalltimR 8 months ago
@SmalltimR As you say, there is only one true God. You have to decide whether Jesus is the one true God or a false God. Jesus said, "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
Jesus is the ego eimi--the I AM.
bsp256 8 months ago
@bsp256
Well of course Jesus is not the One true God, can't you read?
He denied plain as day being God and referred to himself as the son of God over and over again. He worshiped and prayed to the One true God whom he called Father and declared greater than him.
Furthermore, he was resurrected by the One true God and given power and authority by Him. At which point He sat at His right hand in heaven.
So... obviously Jesus is NOT the one true God.
SmalltimR 8 months ago
@bsp256
On the issue of I AM, all I can say is when we research the bible, should at least do it properly and not take things out of context:
A) Septuagint (LXX) Exodus 3:14
και ειπεν ο θεος προς Μωυσην εγω ειμι ο ων - [e·go′ ei·mi ho on]
Translated: and said the God to Moses I am the being
B) Greek Scriptures John 8.58
πριν αβρααμ γενεσθαι εγω ειμι - [e·go′ ei·mi′]
Translated: before Abraham became I am.
SmalltimR 8 months ago
First off, Jesus CLEARLY and OPENLY stated that he could do NOTHING of his own will.... and that EVERYTHING he did was due to his Father.
Therefore... the notion or belief that Jesus rebuked demons of his own accord is completely false.
SmalltimR 9 months ago
@SmalltimR Doing the will of the Father doesn't go against the deity of Christ. Jesus submitted to the Father. There is only one God, how could Jesus do something apart from the Father?
bsp256 9 months ago
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What is the Memorial of Christ's Death*? The Memorial is when Jehovah's Witnesses remember the death of Jesus Christ. It is their most important meeting and is held on the evening of the Jewish month of Nisan 14. This year the Memorial of Christ's death will be held on APRIL 17th 2011. You are warmly invited to attend this special memorial celebration. Contact your local KINGDOM HALL of Jehovah's Witnesses for details.
OR FOLLOW THE LINKS ON MY CHANNEL (on the left)
sunshineuklondon1965 10 months ago
Any belief in a bronze age myth is simply delusional. Please wake up and read some real texts.
smjltd 1 year ago
@smjltd What alternative to the Bible are you proposing?
bsp256 1 year ago
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The Watchtower and Bible Tract Society on pg 27 of their '' Should you believe in the Trinity" brochure told an out right lie on the Journal of Biblical Literature by quoting it to support their "a god" rendering of John 1:1-when instead the Journal of Biblical Literature said the opposite and emphatically demanded that the word was God. This is scholastic purposeful dishonesty and a fruit of a false prophet. What is funny is they have had 20 years to correct it and haven't.
42cody1 1 year ago
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1 John 2:22-23 (King James Version)
22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also
resteedharma 1 year ago
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John 3:16 (King James Version) 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Mr. Bsp... you suddenly accused me of not believing Jesus earlier just because I tried to show some facts.. my aim is unity among followers of Jesus... I know some deviated groups but it is our job to be wise and with love helping them... bye bye...
resteedharma 1 year ago
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resteedharma 1 year ago
WOW! AM I BEING JUDGED HERE? LISTEN! I ONLY REPLIED. I AM NOT PART OF JEHOVAH WITNESS! I BELIEVE THAT BORN AGAIN MEANS ACCEPTING THAT YAHSHUA THE MESSIAH IS THE TRUE WAY. HERE I WANT TO REMIND YOU TO BE CAREFUL BEFORE JUDGING PEOPLE... ONE SPIRIT OF ANTI-CHRIST=JUDGING... SURELY IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT YAHSHUA, YOU ARE GOING TO HELL... BARUCH HASHEM ADONAI!
SHALOM ALAIKA...
resteedharma 1 year ago
@resteedharma Jesus said to judge with righteous judgment (John 7:24). In Matt 7 he was condemning hypocritical judging. However, you've JUDGED me of sinfully judging you, right? That would be you doing everything you've accused me of. I agree that if you don't accept Jesus you're going to hell. You have to accept Him for who He is, not as a figment of your imagination.
Why don't you respond to the points in the video?
bsp256 1 year ago
@bsp256
This is how to recognize the false teaching:
1 John 2:22-23 (King James Version) 22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
resteedharma 1 year ago
@resteedharma That is not the only test for false teaching. Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Hindus, Muslims and many other religions have some sort of belief in Jesus, and may even believe He was the Jewish Messiah (the Christ). However, you wouldn't say all of them are true, would you?
bsp256 1 year ago
@bsp256 Oh I am so sorry... again you judge me... I only believe Jesus as true way of salvation... see you judge me... again and again...
Why are there so many followers of Jesus becoming so judgy?
resteedharma 1 year ago
@resteedharma You said, "again you judge me..." That is you judging me. You think it's wrong to judge others, but you are judging me. It's really quite a simple concept. Maybe I'm not explaining it properly. When someone alleges that another person is sinning, that is judging. You've judged me as being judgmental. Take the log out of your own eye, you hypocrite.
If you study the Bible you'll see that there is one God and Jesus is Him. Don't take my word for it. Study the Bible!
bsp256 1 year ago
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resteedharma 1 year ago
@bsp256 You are correct in it. Earlier you said if I denied Lord Jesus just because I talked about the biblical unitarian? That is not my church or my place. But they are not unitarian universalism. And you suddenly said if I don't believe Jesus as Lord, I will die in sins. I commented and you suddenly accused me. I am sorry, I am saved. I believe and accept Lord Jesus. No more. I am a part of non denominational group. I am NOT oneness, JW, uni, bini, and etc that reject the whole fact of Jesus.
resteedharma 1 year ago
@resteedharma Your original comment said, "...there is Biblical Unitarian." Clearly you can see how I would think that you believe there is biblical unitarianism. Either you're not Trinitarian, or there is some sort of language barrier or you've just been playing games. Please comment elsewhere. I'm no longer interested in giving Scriptural truths to someone who doesn't listen or doesn't care.
bsp256 1 year ago
@bsp256
Matthew 7 3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
resteedharma 1 year ago
@resteedharma As for Matt 7, once we've removed the beam from our own eye, we are supposed to help with our brother's mote (verse 5). You're judging me as being judgmental, but you don't realize that you're judging me. That is your beam. Once you remove it, you can help me with any motes.
John 7:24, "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
1 Cor 5:12 "For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?"
bsp256 1 year ago
@bsp256 Respond to this video...
Oh .. I just had my youtube account and I tried to see how it works. Sorry.
Shalom Alaika...
Greetings from your messianic sister in Indonesia but I join the non denominational movement...
Just because I commented here, you suddenly accused and judged and honestly, you judged without seeking for the truth. I don't think so Yahshua liked that.
resteedharma 1 year ago
@resteedharma If you deny the deity of Christ, you're not my sister. You haven't been adopted into God's family.
Jesus said in John 8:24, "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
Where it says "I am He" in English, it is "ego eimi" in Greek. That is a reference to Exodus 3:14 where Yahweh says I AM. In John 8:58 Jesus makes this clear, and the Jews tried to stone Him.
bsp256 1 year ago
@bsp256
I AM that I AM = Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh...
Yes YAHWEH...
YAHUSHUA = YAHWEH is salvation.
I understand what you talk about.
I don't need to be your sister too if you think I reject Yahshua (Jesus).
And I don't need your respond either then.
resteedharma 1 year ago
There is unitarian universalism that is not biblical and there is Biblical Unitarian. But for me personally, the most important thing is: Yahshua the Messiah is the true way for us to have salvation. Simple.
HalleluYAH
Baruch Hashem Adonai!!!
resteedharma 1 year ago
@resteedharma If you don't believe Jesus is God, you will die in your sins (John 8:24). Why don't you respond to the points in the video? Who is the First and the Last? Who is the Alpha and Omega? Do you not think those terms are synonymous?
bsp256 1 year ago
I answered your questions. We dont believe in the trinity doctrine. The word trinity is not in the bible, but many pagan religions do belive in it. I comes from ancient Babylon, as many teachings do.
Starlababy 1 year ago
@Starlababy No, you haven't answered my question. I've asked the same question about 5 times now. How is the A&O identified as the First and the Last in Rev 22:13 when Jesus is the First and the Last? It's really a very simple question. If you don't know just admit it.
I know you don't believe in the Trinity. However, you shouldn't misrepresent others' beliefs. I don't know of any pagan religions that believe in a trinity. Name one. However there are many false unitarian religions like yours.
bsp256 1 year ago
Yes, rev.1:18 its is speaking about Jesus. But that doesent make him his father. His is a seperate individual. Read the scriptures I put in the last comment i sent.
Starlababy 1 year ago
@Starlababy That comment reveals that you have no understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity. No Trinitarian believes that Jesus is the Father.
Whether you're not capable of understanding the question, or just unwilling to answer, you shed no light on this topic.
bsp256 1 year ago
I believe the alpha and omega are the beginning and the ending letters in the greek alphabet. I was taught that the father has no beginning or end to his life span. But the son Jesus had a beginning to his life read Colossians1:15.It says that. Jesus himself said the father is greater than he is at John 14:28. Also he is subjection to his father at 1 Corinthians 11:3. Also John 5:19 is interesting as he just does as his father is doing, not his own thoughts. He is not his father, as we are not
Starlababy 1 year ago
@Starlababy There is no biblical scholar who would provide an interpretation of one verse by jumping all over the Bible. I'm asking you to explain Rev 22:13, you must at least attempt to explain that verse.
1. Jesus is the First and the Last (Rev 1:17-18)
2. God Almighty is the A&O (Rev 1:8)
3. The First and the Last is the A&O (Rev 22:13)
4. Therefore, Jesus is God Almighty
Which of those 4 is wrong?
bsp256 1 year ago
The alpha and th omega is the God with now beginning and no end, God almighty, and Jehovah is his name. Ps.83:18. It is not Jesus, he had a beginning, as he was the firstborn of all creation, by God almighty himself. Hope this answers your question, probably won't thought. Take care.
Starlababy 1 year ago
@Starlababy Clearly there is a communication barrier between us. I'm talking about Revelation 22:13. In the NWT it says, "I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
All I'm saying is that the Alpha and Omega is identified as the First and the Last. You say The Alpha and Omega is the Father. Surely you admit that Jesus is the First and the Last from Rev 1:17-18. I would like to find out how the Alpha and Omega is identified as the First and the Last.
bsp256 1 year ago
It is God almighty who is the alpha and the omega, Jehovah. No beginning he had and no end. Jesus had a beginning, he is Gods first born son , the beginning of creation. The bible says he is Gods son over and over again. Read the gospel accounts. He is not God Jehovah, but his son. He, Jesus worshiped God, and drew strenght from him , when going through various trials. Hope this answerd you questions.
Starlababy 1 year ago
@Starlababy No, that doesn't answer my questions, but thanks for trying. Rev. 22:13 says that the A&O, First and Last, Beginning and End is coming quickly. Who do you say the A&O, First and Last, Beginning and End is? Clearly, that is Jesus. He is the Alpha and Omega.
Also, Alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet (the beginning). Omega is the last letter (the end). All three of those terms are conveying the same thought.
bsp256 1 year ago
And yet another Jehovah's Witness (Starlababy) wilts under the pressure. This video has been here for almost 3 years and NONE of them have responded to the arguments. I hope that someday one of them at least attempts to respond to the arguments.
bsp256 1 year ago
The bible is my source of information. Look at John 20 verse 17. Jesus speaking here talks about his God. He worships the almighty God just as we do. Always talks about him as his father. We know we are not our father, just as he knows he is not his father. I have to go fornow.
Starlababy 1 year ago
@Starlababy You still haven't responded to the verses in the video. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega (Rev. 22:13), which means He is God almighty (Rev. 1:8).
As for John 20:17, Jesus was fully human, and was under the law (Gal 4:4)--even the 1st of the Ten Commandments. He had to satisfy the law completely. He submits to the Father, but that doesn't mean He's inferior. If you submit to your boss, that doesn't make him superhuman or you subhuman. Furthermore, He is called God only 11 verses later.
bsp256 1 year ago
Jehovah is the only true God. the almihgy. Jesus is his son his firstborn created by jehovah. He worked with his father. He is the king of Gods kingdom, to rule it for 1,ooo years. Then he hands it over to his father for eterinity.
Starlababy 1 year ago
@Starlababy What is the source for your information? Clearly, your source isn't the Bible.
Do you have any thoughts on my video and the verses I cite that refute your views? (I'm asking you for the reason for your hope. Doesn't 1 Peter 3:15 obligate you to respond?)
bsp256 1 year ago
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1stly, who is "an angel of the Lord" (and) or "the angel of the Lord" (various capitalizations), then ask, who is "one of the chief princes". And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?
remnantofgod. org/Michael. htm
disposableculture 1 year ago
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Rev 1:8 I (JESUS)am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
celioabatti 1 year ago
"..Repent for the kingdom of Yahweh is at hand" Mat 4:17
"Repent therefore and be converted that your sins may be blotted out.." Acts 3:19
We repent of sin by keeping Yahweh's Laws. "Go and sin no more.." This is not bribing the judge. A criminal who is given a pardon should not return to a life of crime. He must strive to be law abiding otherwise his sins will not be blotted out. You can't sin and have the laws in your heart at the same time. Sinners will not enter - I Cor 6:9-10
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
That sounds like the Mormons article of faith #3: "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."
I ask them what I will ask you. Have you kept the law? Have you stopped looking with lust? Lust is adultery. Have you stopped lying? Do you love your neighbor as yourself, and God with all your heart, always, without fail?
The law isn't for us to keep; it's not possible. It is to show us we need a Savior (Gal 3:24)
bsp256 2 years ago
You say that its not possible for us to keep the law of Yahweh, but how did Abraham did it? Genesis 26:5? Its just like learning to drive or a baby learning how to walk. Sin is something we overcome by practicing the law keeping life style rather than living in law breaking lifestyle. This is what repentance and conversion is all about. We live the law keeping life style the Savior did.
I John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk exactly as He walked.
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
Are you saying we keep the commands of Jesus (John 14:21) in order to get saved? Or are you saying we keep them because we are saved by grace alone through faith alone?
bsp256 2 years ago
For all practical purposes, we are saved by both repentance/conversion (works) and the shed blood of the Savior. The sacrifice of Messiah does not apply to anyone who does not repent of sin and convert to the law keeping life style that Yahshua lived.
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Do not deceive yourselves. Neither fornicators, ...will inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh. I Corin 6:9-10.
There are so many other scriptures that show this.
MessageOfTheKingdom 2 years ago
@MessageOfTheKingdom
Where is your proof that Repentance + Works + the Blood = Salvation?
Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.
Romans 11:5-6
So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
blueskunk12 1 year ago
@MessageOfTheKingdom
Galatians 2:21
"I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"
Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
John 13:34-35
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
blueskunk12 1 year ago
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For God do loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so we may not perish but have ever lasting life! Does that not mean Jesus is seperate from God
adparker1 2 years ago
Yah who WAS, Yah who IS and Yah who is COMING!! Jesus is the WORD of Jehovah - Jehovahs own WORD - The WORD of Jehovah!!
TheLydiah 2 years ago
bsp256 2 years ago
jesus is the beginnig of the church and is the end of the church.
.
Bingham23 2 years ago
jesus is the beginnig and the end the beginnig of the church in he will be the end of it.
Bingham23 2 years ago
How do you know that (chapter & verse)? What is your take on Jesus being the Alpha and Omega and First and Last?
Do you believe in the Trinity?
Thanks for your comment.
bsp256 2 years ago
You do not need to be forgiven of anything, especially "sin." If God or Jesus made you a sinner, then what do they expect. Its seems like they encourage sin by continuing to remain a mystery.
Why are we being judged for something adam and eve did. Are we not all judged individually?
The bible seems epic and childish right from Genesis.
seeingeyeass 2 years ago
So, if someone stole your wallet, you don't care? Why don't they need to be forgiven? You think it's unreasonable that God would make the thief account for stealing your wallet?
Are you an atheist? If not, what are your beliefs?
bsp256 2 years ago
Sometimes people are jerks and steal. It is was it is. Sometimes there is no justice.
I think it is unreasonable for god to kill someone for stealing.
you can say i am agnostic.
everyone is agnostic in a way, because you cannot get around the fact that no one can truthfully say that they are absolutely sure of what they believe. If they do, then delusions have taken over.
seeingeyeass 2 years ago
Since you aren't certain of your beliefs you assume that no one has enough information to be certain of their beliefs, either. Isn't it possible that there is enough info somewhere to be certain that Christianity is correct, but you're just not aware of it?
God certainly will kill someone for stealing. He'll also kill people for lying & disobeying their parents. You're guilty of those things, and of course you disagree with the punishment you've been promised. That's not really surprising.
bsp256 2 years ago
Jesus prayed to Jehovah when on earth.
would it really make sence for him to pray to himself?
when Jesus was baptized the clouds opened up and jehovah said "this is my son"
It's pretty clear that they are not the same.
austinlovesasians 2 years ago
Either you've misunderstood the Bible, or you're not being truthful. The Bible doesn't say Jesus prayed to Yahweh. It says He prayed to the Father, and the Father is the one who spoke when Jesus was baptized.
Why don't you respond to the topic of the video. Jesus is the First and the Last. Yahweh is the First and the Last. Unless you believe there is more than one First and Last, Jesus must be Yahweh.
Are you a JW in good standing?
Thanks for your comment.
Bill
bsp256 2 years ago
Do you really think you can completely & fully understand God's awesomeness? How can you say that doesnt make sense when God even made you & everything else. There is alot about God we don't understand. John 14:9. Also did you hear what he said about three different versus in Rev saying that Jesus is the first & last? There are three co exsistent, co eternal persons making up one God...It is written throughout the ENTIRE bible I suggest you read it so that you will have the truth.
haileexox 2 years ago
I was wondering bsp256 what will be the correct word for John 3:15 for begotten in an actualized english?
In John 3:16, the Greek word is monogenes, and means unique, or only. The KJV was written in 1611, and English has changed in the last 400 years
wertyh11 2 years ago
I don't understand the question. John 3:15 doesn't have the word begotten or unique.
Thanks,
Bill
bsp256 2 years ago
Everytime Jesus was on earth he was always praying to Jehova, and in some occassions asking Jehova what to do. if they had the same authority Jesus wouldnt have done that. I would like ur aim or sometiing so we can talk about this. Its really interesting. John 10:30 Means jesus and Jehova are one in thought. they had the same motive. But then again... it leaves out the holy spirit...?
dorinc1 2 years ago
Do u know what begotten means? It means thats the only person God made with his own hands. if u believe in the trinity then ur basically saying God Jesus and the Holy spirit have the same authority. Which is wrong.
dorinc1 2 years ago
Jesus is a powerful being. but he does not have the same authority as his father. Its impossible. God made jesus. do u know John 3:16, for God so love the world he gave his only begotten som.
dorinc1 2 years ago
Jesus is eternal, and He's God, but He surrendered His authority when He came to Earth (Philippians 2:7). You don't have a proper understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity.
In John 3:16, the Greek word is monogenes, and means unique, or only. The KJV was written in 1611, and English has changed in the last 400 years.
bsp256 2 years ago
Hmmm Impossible you say? hehe us humans thinking we know better than God. I personally wouldnt dare to try & say that things are impossible for God. If he made everything why is it so difficult for people to beleive he created the trinity? John 14:9...Anyone who has seen me has seen the father. How can you say, 'show us the father;? Don't you beleive that I am the father, and the father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather it is the father living in me.
haileexox 2 years ago
oh yea nad about John 10:30 That means that they are one in thought so that does not prove the trinity. And it leaves out the holy spirit.
dorinc1 2 years ago
That doesn't explain the whole situation. Deut. 6:4 says Yahweh is one. In John 10:30, Jesus says my Father and I are one. That is what the Jews understood, because they were about to stone Him for claiming to be God (John 10:33).
I think it's kind of funny that you agree with the Jews that Jesus isn't God.
bsp256 2 years ago
bsp ur wrong. the jews believe that Jesus was a prophet, not the son of God. I for one believe that he is the son of God and that he is a God. God means Powerful being.
dorinc1 2 years ago
Did you look at the verse I gave you? The Jews knew Jesus was claiming the Sh'ma for Himself, and claiming to be God. They didn't believe it, so they were about to stone Him.
Believing in more than one god is polytheism, and is a biblically untenable position. Check out Isaiah 40-46.
bsp256 2 years ago
Oh yea and another thing. In revalation that was God talking not jesus.
dorinc1 2 years ago
You have to provide reasoning for your statement.
bsp256 2 years ago
Well u answered it urself bsp256
Jehova never had a beginning
and also god is not a name. Its a title and yes Jesus was a God!
dorinc1 2 years ago
How many gods do you believe in?
bsp256 2 years ago
obviously the person himself who made this, doesnt understand god, or jesus. god is all knowing but he is also all loving. people need to understand that YOU CAN NOT HAVE LIGHT WITHOUT DARK.THE FATHER MADE BOTH AND HE LOVES BOTH EQUALLY.THEREFORE HE SENT HIS SON JESUS WHO WAS JUST LIKE HIS FATHER ALL LOVING AND ALL FORGIVING,TO TEACH US A LESSON. LOVE GOD AND EVERYONE IN EXISTENCE EVEN PEOPLE WHO HATE BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE ARE THE ONES WHO DONT UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF LOVE.UCANT FIRE WITH FIRE!
3STIX7 3 years ago
I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Are you saying I shouldn't tell JWs they're going to hell? If it's true (and it certainly is), it is the most loving thing I can do.
Are you a born again Christian?
Thanks for your comment.
bsp256 3 years ago
The notion of having a debt paid is contradtictive to forgiveness and mercy. If someone owes me 1000 dollars, and i am angry with them , but somebody goes "hey man, ill pay the 1000 you owe" and gives me the 1000 dollars, i will no longer be angry with the man , not because i forgave him, but simply because, well, i got the 1000 i wanted. I cannot say that i forgave him or had any type of mercy in this incident if after all, i got what i was owed.
pianokid100 3 years ago
Although we do sin against God and although He could destroy us all righteously so, and would still be fair, the Bible shows that His character is not like this, but that He delights in mercy and forgiveness. Also, MANY times people in the Bible (old and new testaments) people were forgiven ,just like that, with no transaction being required (blood sacrifice) .
pianokid100 3 years ago
To me, God is the "Master" in the parable in "Mathew 18:21" . notice that the evil servant demanded a payment and the Master was angry because He had forgiven him FREELY ! but the servant demanded a payment
pianokid100 3 years ago
Christians forgive because they have been forgiven. God doesn't need to be forgiven for anything He's done. He is the perfect, holy, righteous, just Judge of the universe, and you must give account for every thought word and deed you've ever committed. Repent and trust in Jesus alone (Mark 1:15).
I'll let you have the last word. Thanks for the conversation and your time.
bsp256 3 years ago
so many false teachings in your video. is your video saying that since God is a just Judge, he DEMANDS a payment be made since He cannot simply forgive the debt ?
pianokid100 3 years ago
I think this is the crux of our disagreement. Yes, justice DEMANDS payment. The definition of justice is ensuring that the innocent go free, and the guilty are properly punished.
We have sinned against an infinitely holy God. We have transgressed His law. The penalty for sinning against an infinitely holy being is infinite. Only an infinite payment can pay our penalty. Any finite payment leaves an infinite penalty left to be paid.
Jesus had to have blood of infinite value to pay for sin.
bsp256 3 years ago
you contradict yourself so bad. You say that justice is about ensuring the innocents go free and that the guilty are properly punished, but your theory.doctrine is the opposite of this. You teach that an innocent was punished so that guilties can be free. notive your obvious contradictions. not only do you contradict the Word ,but you have no problem contradicting yourself neither. Well, i beleive in a different God that doesnt DEMAND payment.
pianokid100 3 years ago
God Himself paid our penalty. He can do that if He wishes.
If your god doesn't punish guilty lawbreakers, then your god is unjust, and he isn't the god of the Bible.
bsp256 3 years ago
"I and the father are one", yes thats true, they were united. notice that your god Jesus prayed to God that the christians would be one just like he and the Father were. well, we can be united, but not the same being
pianokid100 3 years ago
Deuteronomy 6:4 is a foundational statement of the Old Testament: "the LORD is one." Jesus wasn't just claiming to be unified with the Father. He was claiming to be the LORD, and the Jews understood that full well. They picked up stones to stone Him for claiming to be God (John 10:33).
bsp256 3 years ago
"how many gods are there?" , well if Jesus is a god, then there are atleast 2, since your god Jesus has a God. even the resurrected, glorified, first and the last Jesus does.
"'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name."
pianokid100 3 years ago
I agree that if Jesus is a god, then there are two gods. That is what the NWT says. What translation do you use?
Again, Philippians 2 says Jesus became nothing. That would make Him less than the Father in certain respects (John 14:28) Do you think God in the flesh would live as an atheist? Wouldn't He continue to commune with the Father?
bsp256 3 years ago
all the points in the video are fail.
1. the fact that Jesus rebuked demons doesnt mean he was God, since Jesus taught that all the believers have that same power.
2."how many gods are there" Jesus never said he was a god, but did say that anyone to whom the Word comes is a god
3.Jesus said he was the first and the last and was dead and is alive, well God cannot die
pianokid100 3 years ago
1. I never said that Jesus is God because He rebuked demons. All that does is prove that He's not Michael the archangel. We will judge the angels (1 Cor. 6:3).
2. Jesus is the I AM, and said so (John 8:58).
3. Jesus is fully God and fully man. The Alpha and Omega is the First and the Last (Rev. 22:13).
Maybe you should watch the video again, and pay a little bit closer attention. Don't just angrily respond. The truth can stand any test I can throw at it, right?
bsp256 3 years ago
the "fully god and fully man" theory makes no sense . thats like saying someone is fully tall while being fully midget. its an oxymoron . HE cannot be anything that isnt God . and humans are not god . He cant make himself not be God. He is always God period. God cannot make a part of himself not be all knowing as Jesus was not all knowing
pianokid100 3 years ago
Can your god enter into creation? Are you saying that your god could never think of a way to become a man? Why do you place such limitations on him? Do you have a verse that says he can't do such a thing? How do you know God can't be fully God and fully man?
I understand that the theory makes no sense to you. However, it doesn't violate any laws of logic. Your lack of understanding doesn't place any limitations on God.
bsp256 3 years ago
Can God kill himself ? cam God lie ? can God be tempted by sin ? can God make himself not be God ? can God make atheism be the true religion and monotheism be the correct religion at the same time? Can God turn half of himself into a full non-god human? the answer is no. your god has limitations . My God is perfect and all powerful, that is why he cannot do these things. but your God can make himself not unknowing since you god Jesus was clearly not all knowing even by his own admissions .
pianokid100 3 years ago
God can became human, and did even in the Old Testament many times. For example, Genesis 18, which you still haven't explained.
bsp256 3 years ago
God didnt "become" a dove in the NT. HE appeared as. there is a difference between manifesting Himself as something and becoming something .If God "appeared" to be flesh , then it still would not be real flesh , unless you are denying that Jesus was real flesh? God cannot become non-god , but He can make manifestations or visions. If Jesus was God, anyone that touched him or looked at him wouldve died. If somebody tried to hit the "dove" manifestation, they wouldve surely died
pianokid100 3 years ago
I would appreciate if you would answer the following questions.
Are you a Jehovah's Witness in good standing?
What version of the Bible do you use?
Thanks.
bsp256 3 years ago
Are you a Jehovah's Witness in good standing? No
What version of the Bible do you use?
many, but i study hebrew and use lexicons so any version will do since i know what the originals said anyway . I like the ISR version and the NKJ version for beginners
pianokid100 3 years ago
Maybe you could be a little more forthcoming with what you believe. Do you have any association at all with Jehovah's Witnesses? Do you believe that only 144k are going to heaven. Do you believe that there will be paradise earth with the Old Testament believers, and non-born again believers?
bsp256 3 years ago
Rom.9:3-5 "For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen[a] according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen."
uly5i5 3 years ago
1Jn.5:20 "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
uly5i5 3 years ago
And,you're right,Isaiah prophesied that Jesus would be called a "mighty god". I think you should look at that one again. mighty god,not ALMIGHTY God. Bit of a difference don't you think?
firstpeterthree 3 years ago
Yahweh is the Mighty God (Isaiah 10:21). In 1 Thess 4:16, an archangel shouts. That doesn't mean Jesus shouts with the voice of an archangedl because He is an archangel. Don't fall for the Watchtower's garbage.
Furthermore, you didn't respond to hardly any of the content in the video. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega--God Almighty.
CCCAvideo 3 years ago
1 Thess.4:16 says,"because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangels voice.." Why would Jesus use the voice of a lesser angel? If you're right wouldn't he just use His own voice?
firstpeterthree 3 years ago