I was very surprised at some of the great fighters they left out. Barney Ross was a great fighter who I feel should have got a mention. I believe Harry Greb another true great was also left out of this discussion, that's shocking!! Joe Gans, Stanley Ketchel etc so many names spring to mind that should have been mentioned. Well I guess they only had an hour, but they certainly left out some of the best ever.
@pkbosslac, well in my opinion, Whitaker wasn't a natural Welterweight, either. He was dwarfed by some of his 147 lb opponents. But he was a better technical boxer than Chavez, which counts for more than size. My problem I have for all these 'reasons' why Chavez was outboxed by Whitaker is that they only magically appeared after the fight. Anyway, regardless of their bout, his performances and skills at the highest level don't impress me as much as Whitaker's. But Chavez is still a true legend.
@pkbosslac, can't really take you seriously when you've been reduced to namecalling like a 9 year old. You do know that when they were both at Lightweight it was Chavez who decided to jump up a division rather than consider a Whitaker fight, don't you? Chavez an 'alcoholic?' No, he just liked his beer, and if he's boozing too much that's HIS FAULT. So are you trying to tell me people were saying Chavez was past his prime BEFORE the fight? Of course they weren't. Just a convenient excuse after.
@pkbosslac, you Chavez nuthuggers are nearly as bad as Tyson groupies. Excuse after excuse after excuse. Absolutely NOBODY was saying that Chavez was 'past prime' before the Whitaker fight. He was the big betting favourite and had scored two very good wins / performances in the year before. Whitaker boxes his ears off, and lo and behold "oh, he wasn't in his prime!" Whitaker was just the better boxer. And Chavez had fought well as a Welterweight before, more than once.
@pkbosslac He did fight nobodies and got this hyped up bullshit undefeated records, moved up north to fight REAL competitors and what happened? He got totally outclassed by Taylor and got lucky in the last round and he got owned by Pernell, De La Hoya and all them guys. You want me to continue?
Whitaker belongs above Chavez, no doubt. We all know that Chavez was damn lucky to get the 'draw' when they met. Whitaker dominated a 'classic' division at Lightweight, to the point where only Duran and Benny Leonard can rank above him at 135 lb. He was almost as great as a Welterweight, too. Not many have been nigh-on untochable in two of the eight original weights. Whitaker didn't need the strokes of luck Chavez had now and then either. Chavez is a legend & true great. But Whitaker is greater.
@iljn1988 the first fight was a fair and square draw,,everyone seems to forget that chaves won the early rounds,,he won 5 out of the 6 early rounds,,,and then took the 12...the fights where closer than everyone makes them out to be,,,,,and the taylor fights come on, chaves destroyd him LITERALLY..chavez nock him down in the last seconds, its like a game winning shot in basketball...he dint respond to the ref,,his corner told him to go all out cuz they needed the round,,he doomed himself..
@OchoaPrideMex4Life, what do you mean 'first fight?' He only fought Whitaker once. And no, that was not a fair draw at all, it was a disgraceful verdict. Whitaker won at least 8 rounds, probably 9. Like Al Bernstein said, it was the worst robbery in 20 years. Chavez showed what a magnificent champion he was against Taylor, but he was still a little lucky. It was a contentious stoppage. Wonderful comeback of course, but that fight showed Chavez's weakness against slick counter-punchers.
@iljn1988 your right for some odd reason i was thinking about de la hoya fight,,,,,,, but im telling you watch the fight again,,,,,most the rounds where hard to judge...it was closer than what the comentators of the fight say,,,,whitaker was taking the later rounds thats why alot of people think he won the fight,,,and if you think this was a huge robbery,,,than wow you would have a heart attack when you see other bs scorecards.....
@OchoaPrideMex4Life, it was a huge robbery. Not THE worst I've seen, but still an awful decision. After six rounds, Chavez was AT BEST on level terms. At best. Now, I'm sure even you will admit that Whitaker clearly won rounds 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11. Round 12 is debatable, can make a case either way. So Chavez either won 3 or 4 rounds, Whitaker clearly took 8 or 9. Simple as that. Look at their faces after the decision is announced - Chavez knows he's got away with it.
And once again no mention of Harry Greb. All respect to Ali, he was the greatest heavyweight of all times but he can't tough at least 5 or 6 other lower weight fighters when it comes to P4P. I'm also suprised Kid Gavilan or Aaron Pryor weren't mentioned, or Ezzard Charles.
@johnosandra LOL he's far from it. He built up a big unbeaten record against nobody Mexcians, soon as he crossed the boarder and fought top competitors in Whitaker and Taylor he got schooled. Tough and strong - yes, the greatest of all times? no.
@johnosandra So you're saying his a GOAT for being a punching bag? He was a flat footed slugger with a decent chin, he wasn't the hardest hitting welterweight, he wasn't the toughest welterweight, he wasn't the fastest welterweight and he wasn't the greatest welterweight. You're deluded if you think otherwise, you sound like one of those dumb Pacquiao fans who think he is the ATG of boxing. At welterweight SRR, Henry Armstrong and Aaron Pryor wudda whupped him.
@johnosandra you my friend are a chump, at welter he would get owned by too many fighters to name. And yes flat footed, are you a retard or something? i don't recall chavez dancing i recall him getting outboxed because of his lazy footwork by taylor and whitaker.
@johnosandra Whitaker was robbed and Taylor was robbed in their first fights. Great or not the likes of Sugar Ray Robinson, Harry Greb, Sam Langford, Willie Pep, Henry Armstrong and Roberto Duran ALL rank higher than he did and P4P would have kicked his ass big time.
@MrBumboclart CHAVEZ EXECUTE SKILLFUL FOOTWORK MANEUVERS ON PAR WITH ANY GREAT FIGHTER
LOL ITS HIS FOOTSPEED AND PERFECT FOOTWORK THAT ENABLES HIM TO NULLIFY ANYTHING YOU THROW AT HIM WHETHER IT BE BRILLIANT SPEED LIKE MELDRICK TAYLOR OR GREAT POWER LIKE ROSARIO
CHAVEZ HAS EVERYTHING AND CAN PULL IT OUT AND NEVER PERFORMED BAD ONCE
@johnosandra I don't care what you say. And OBVIOUSLY Mexicans will say he's the greatest when he was outlcassed by Taylor and Whitaker - Whitaker ranks x10 higher than Chavez as do many more.
@zapatero39 Did you watch Taylor-Chavez one? Are you seriously going to say Chavez was the better fighter that night? Really? He KNOCKED HIM DOWN he never knocked him out, and Taylor was winning a decision on all score cards. Chavez got lucky, like he did with Whitaker - just another hyped up Don King fighter who really wasn't that good but got far fighting nobodies and using connections.
@MrBumboclart What Pernell Whitaker made look easy is what 99% of other fighters could'nt dream of ever doing.And weather Taylor was Wrongley stopped or not after his tremendous effort(Which i actually think he was)At the end of that fight he was bruised bloodied and out on his feet.I'm not saying Chavez is the best ever(he's not)But like i said to you before "not that good,you are hard to please.
@song4clay OK, but all I'm saying is there are probably 15-20 fighters better than Chavez, he ranks around the early 20's to the late 30's in my opinion.
@MrBumboclart the punishment of Taylor had that night was brutal!the best man won that night?Yes! Chavez finished Taylor's carrier!and let's take a look of record of those 2 fighters off course!J.C Chavez deserve to won that fight!
the greatest boxer of all time is the one so refined you simply cannot refine it more
julio cesar chavez defines his style and refined it like it had been passed down in generations with thousands of trainers refining it over time but no chavez did this all on his own
Yr right about whitaker, I have nelsons career on dvd and I love pernells masterclass (hey to the person that said joe calzaghe showed lacy how to box? Go check out nelson, who had only lost to potential goat at feather sal sanchez, get humiliated by sweet pea) he hits him behind his back!. Mayweather learned a lot from watching that fight, it shows.
@ha9223 BUTTERBEAN IS THE GREATEST I AGREE LOL.the king of the 4 round fights tyson didnt even except his challenge to a 4 round championship LOL.great comment brotha
SALVADOR SANCHEZ THE GREATEST!!! HE'Z THE MEXICAN BRUCE LEE!!! WITHOUT KARATE KICKZ HAHA ALL THEM BUSTERZ R LUCKY HE DIED EARLY...HE WOULD OF FUCKD UP ANYBODY... FRM THE PAST, IN HIS DAY, AND ANY BITCH MADE BOXER U NAME 2DAY!!! REST.IN.PARADISE CHAMP!!! MEXICA TIAHUI MEXICA TIAHUI MEXICA TIAHUI
@elbuddy you realize how stupid you are? you seem like a clown to me.
wrong.. what other boxers can win by decision pacquioa win by tko. it's that simple.
you seem to argue once a boxer has at least one lost..prior to fighting pac..they are already worthless..you gotta be drunk from drinking your own piss.
@akosihelbert This is not about Knocking other boxers out .. sure its a more impressive way to win.. and I am a boxer you dumb fuck.. He is on something.. either is legal or not he is on something.. HOW the fuck do you have problems with guys at lightweight division and knock out guys at welterweight division... ?? I know what its like to fight in a greater weight class its FUCKING HARD! ok i know Pac is a WORLD champion and he is in another level but still...
@elbuddy yeah..but still you got more to go..you amateur booger.
do you even know the word dedication? that's the reason for his greatness.
just because the guy's so good..doesn't mean he's cheating. it's just that he's a rare specimen. once in a lifetime.
maybe you find it hard to fight bigger guy cause, first. you not pacquiao, and second you will never even be half of his greatness..though how hard you try. there will only be one pacman,
Pacman is the greatest of all times. Better than Duran and SRL and hearns.
Many took Duran the distance. Pacs great opponents cant see the last round with Pac and they look like elephant man. Duran only did that to Davey Moore, and only cos he lost sight in his eye.
Pac does it to all his opponents and he gets better with age, cos he was WIP early on, with no proper trainer.
@rowanatkin, what a joke, you can't be serious surely? How long have you been following boxing? Duran would have snapped Pacquiao in two. Pacquiao has never dominated a 'classic' division the way that Duran did at Lightweight, and hasn't got a single, individual win on his record that can even remotely be compared to Duran's over Leonard. Christ Almighty, you judge a fighter's greatness on what their opponents face looks like after a fight? Says it all really. Pac is great, but 30th at best.
If MP is an american product,how about Mayweather who should have fought long beforehand Mosley, Margarito, Cotto,Williams, and maybe Berto? Why also until now Berto haven't fought any of these boxers? The Boxing Organizations are just simply protecting also these 2 undefeated guys so that their records will not be tainted n b marketable for long as what they're enjoyong now; like others in history of boxing..
J Marquez is 37 n stil getting better n beating incumbent champions n younger previous champions. When Chavez was demolished by DLH he's 34,but after that he still got many wins until he reached 38 yrs old when he was stopped by undeafeted Kotzya Tzu. MP is now 32 n like J Marquez is still getting better n continously beating much bigger incumbent n previous champions.
@aragon522 Facts; Wen MP demolished barrera in their 1st n 2nd bouts,barrera is 28 n 32 yrs old; wen MP stopped Morales in their 2nd n 3rd match,Morales is 29 n 30 yrs old. Wit Hatton,he is 30;Cotto is 28;n DLH is 35. In boxing history, for champions,early 30s it's still ok,when their names r getting bigger n where they faced bigger champions.Remember,MANY became champions n remained champions at 30s. Hopkins def. undeafeted Pavlik at 43;Mosley KO'd champion Margarito at 37; ETC.
@misterRR1000analyze this, Chavez: 1 of the greatest chins ever, a extreme accuracy, an extremly good defense, amazing power(practicly all his oponents urinate blood for the power of his body pounch), an hes considered as the best brawler ever... Pacquiao is a brawler, and try to brawl against Chavez was a suicide..
Do you know anithing about a boxer called Meldrick Taylor???
he was faster than Pacquio, but he face Chavez...hes retard now D:
@Aragorn522 hey man i love chavez hes the icon of boxing but dont disrespect taylor he gave it his all man i actually feel bad for that man give him the up most respect but fuck pac he would end up all stupified chavez for life
CHAVEZ: 6 titles, holds records for most successful consecutive defenses of world titles (27), most title fights (37), most title-fight victories (31), and most title defenses won by knockout (21). Chávez also has the longest undefeated streak in boxing history, 13 years.
PACQUIAO: 8 titles....nothing more xD
yep pacquiao is an extremly good boxer, but Chavez.... hes just the best AND HE HOLDS THE BEST RECORD IN BOXING HISTORY :D
@Aragorn522 i'm sorry to inform you, i doubt very much if those opponents of chavez were better than pacquiao's opponents. you can simply compared their records at wikipedia...boxrec.. and i doubt if chavez will win against MP,if chavez is at his prime. you can simply analyze their style, power, techniques,speed and power.
@misterRR1000 so? all the boxers that Pacquiao face were already out of their prime, Morales, De la Hoya, Barrera, Cotto, Hatton, all they were already out of their prime. And the only good boxer on his prime that Pacquiao face, Marquez, clary outbox pac and won against him..
But you are just another pactard :D
Its dificult to know that your only P4P in history, and probably the only one, is just a product of american marketing :3
Roy Jones Jr is the greatest of all time DOMINATED 2 hall of famers in there prime. Moved up from middleweight to heavyweight won 40+ fights no real losses, NOT ONE COMPETITIVE FIGHT during that span.
No boxers before Ali should be considered 99% of fighters were weekend warriors. Ali is the man that made boxing a profession. 99% of the fighters that Sugar Ray Robinson fought were weekend warriors.
@iljn1988 maybe you should ask ARUM why he picked PACQUIAO AS THE BEST BOXER OF ALL TIME. Arum is in boxing for 60 yrs. Ask also T.Atlas why he picked Manny as the 2ND BEST BOXER OF ALL TIME. He's no.1 (negative) critic of Manny.
@misterRR1000, first of all, Arum is an absolute cunt of a bloke, as is Atlas (who is as mad as a rat in a tin shit house too, by the way). Secondly, Arum is Pacquiao's promoter, hardly surprising he bigs him up as he is Arum's cash cow. Look, if you honestly think that Pacquiao is the greatest of all time, there is ZERO hope for you. If you can't be bothered to actually learn about boxing history, then there's no point discussing with you anymore. It's like talking to a brick wall.
@iljn1988 JUST NO MUDSLINGING TO OTHERS SIR. Let's wait a little more time what history will tell.... For now it's PACQUIAO ERA AND HE HAS THE BEST RECORD!
Level these if any boxer can: MANY PACQUIAO,d only LINEAL CHAMPION in history of boxing. It means he beats the best champs.He's the only 8 WEIGHT DIV. WORLD CHAMP in history of boxing. He beat barrera,morales,marquez,hatton n cotto ALL 3 WEIGHT DIV. LONG TIME WORLD CHAMPS; Larios 2 WEIGHT DIV. LONG TIME WORLD CHAMP; Margarito 2x WELTERWEIGHT WORLD CHAMP n 2 WEIGHT DIV. WORLD CHAMP; dela hoya 6 WEIGHT DIV. LONG TIME WORLD CHAMP. And take note,how PACQUIAO beat these CHAMPIONS..
World class Champs for the past 3 decades r better compared to old classic Champs before for the simple reason of ADVANCE MODERN TRAINING,SUPPLEMENTS,n STRATEGIES. Boxing now is SCIENCE unlike before, just power to power n purely instinct.. That,s y ALI is the best to most old timer boxing experts, bcos he REVOLUTIONZED boxing; as like Bruce Lee in Martial Arts.
@misterRR1000 if modern day training and supplements are so much better, then why is 80-odd percent of the Heavyweight talent pool fat, flabby and out of shape? Were the top contenders of the fifties and sixties so grossly overweight and underconditioned? You've CLEARLY never watched boxing before the 80s, if you did you'd know that there were plenty of scientific fighters. And haven't you noticed there are just as many unscientific fighters who are all power around now as there was in the 50s?
@iljn1988 what i wrote is WORLD CLASS CHAMPS not all boxers.Greatness of a boxer should not weight if how many wins he got or if he's undefeateted, it should b on THE QUALITY n RECORDS OF HIS OPPONENTS n how he defeated them. Face the facts: See CHAVEZ record at wikipedia n compare it to PACQUIAO's record. 75% of Chavez opponents were UNKNOWN n most of his opponents too have POOR RECORDS. With Leonard,he admitted he lost to hearns in their 2nd bout; n a very questionable win over Lalonde.
Hopkins and Roy Jones are better than Sugar ray robinson, if technique,power,style,stamina and strategy are concern. Most champions now are far better than previous old champions because of MODERN TRAINING ADVANCEMENT NOW.Sorry, if i offended too many...
@misterRR1000, you couldn't be more wrong. There's technical wizards and simple sluggers in every generation, and technical wizards are no more or less common now than they were sixty years ago. Your Jones comment in particular makes no sense at all - he's about as technically INCORRECT as a boxer can be. He got by on athleticism, not boxing technique. And I'm sorry, if you compare Pacquiao to say, Benny Leonard, it's clear who has the better technique and it's not the man from the Phillipines.
@misterRR1000 I have to respectfully disagree with you man. Hopkins and Roy Jones are inferior fighters compared to Robinson. Jones was flawed technically, he had tremendous speed and athleticism. But when he got older you saw how flawed he was when his speed and athleticism deserted him. As for Hopkins and Jones are not bigger punchers than Ray, they are not better technically or in the stamina department. Modern Training does not make you a better Boxer, or gives you better Boxing skills.
Chek chavez pro.boxrec at wikipedia,75% of his opponents were unknown n hv very poor records n even unverified. Best boxers shud not weight their greatness by their many wins,or if they'r undefeated,but they shud weight by QUALITY OF THEIR OPPONENTS. It's PACQUIAO or ALI,bcos they DEMOLISHED MOST OF D CHAMPS during their time in weight divisions they competed.Duran can't be bcos he lost most of his big fights.Leonard can't b also,he admitted he lost to hearns in 2nd fight n a ? win to Lalonde.
CHAVEZ... THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHITAKER JUST HUGGED AND RAN AWAY FROM HIM. MAYBE ROBINSON IS SECOND BEST BUT THAT´S BECAUSE HE WAS FROM THE USA, NOT MANY LATINOS WERE KNOWN THERE THEN. MANY LATINOS WERE BETTER THAN ROBINSON FROM MEXICO, ARGENTINA, CENTRAL AMERICA, ETC, BUT WERE NOT IN THE US ATMOSPHERE.
@budfr a while!!!?? he dominated the forst 10 rounds!!!! watch the fight again. No way should Richard Steele have stopped that fight it was ridiculous, Chavez should have lost to Taylor
@Mikey2936 I already watched it many times. Most people, including the ringside doctor, agreed that the fight was correctly stopped. Tyalor was not the same after that fight. Steele didn´t know what was the remaining time. Imagine if there was like a minute left, Chavez was going to Ko him and pretty bad!! One punch of Chavez equaled to 3 from Taylor. And don´t forget the rematch.
what people don't like to admit or flat out overlook is Chavez's sub par quality of competition! & the obvious fact that he didn't even debut in 1 of the original 8 weight divisions.
credit to Barry McGuigan for his recognition of Roberto Duran!
These pound-for-pound discussions, whilst somewhat entertaining, are ultimately really pointless because every blind man and his dog knows and recognizes that Ray Robinson was/is/will forever be regarded as the all-time greatest of them all. He was the perfect fighting machine. That is just pure fact.
fucking white cock suckers.......accept it... mexicans boxers Has cleaner and better record than any usa or uk boxers....YOU ARE NOT THE CENTER OF THE BOXING....LOL FUCKING WANKAS
Ali will always be no,1 for me ..... he transcended sport and became the most recognised man on the planet ..... brave beyond question ..... took a great punch. The reason why I say he is the best ever is because his opponents were some of the greatest ever ...... Foreman, Liston & Frazier are in most peoples Top 10 heavyweights ever ..... then you add Norton, Lyle, Shavers, etc. Ali was the greatest in a golden era of great heavyweights.
BOXING NOW IS TOO ADVANCE... TECHNIQUES,TRAINING,STAMINA,POWER, IT'S SCIENCE... New champions 2day may far advance now compare to old champions b4. I'll go for Pacquiao for being d only 7 Weight Divs. World Champion.beating morales,barrera,marquez, hatton,n cotto all 3 Weight Divs. World Champs; larios 2 Weight Divs World Champ; n dela hoya 6 Weight Divs World Champ. Mayweather is avoiding cotto, williams, berto, margarito,clottey n now pacquiao. He also avoided mosley during his prime.
@misterRR1000 pacquiao lost the biggest fight of the last years in boxing against Marquez , superfeatherweight (no matter if business around boxing prefers, decided and choose mp for some reasons)...
@misterRR1000 the number of titles in different divisions are not a good reason to say who is better... dlh reach 6 but chavez was better (their fights were in the beginning of the end of chavezs career)...
another example: some fighters like arce, will fight for other division title, but he never will be in the places of Marquez, Morales, finito Lopez, etc.......
hey 818lashr look at sugar ray robinson 175 wins! and 19 losses come on with all those fights u would suspect more losses but ma man ray is #1 r.i.p robinson
Had these guys not been american and bias towards picking only americans. Julio Cesar Chavez in definatly one of the greatest of all time. NO question about it. There will never be another man with that kind of record. PERIOD.
@chplatinum15, there's no bias against Chavez here at all. He was great, no doubt about it; but he's a long way off the Robinsons, Armstrongs and Grebs of this world. Statistics are misleading, and besides, people HAVE had better records than Chavez's 98-2-1 as it stood then. Willie Pep was something like 135-1 at one stage.
He beat some wonderful fighters, but the very best technical boxer he faced (Whitaker) made him look a bit daft. Chavez is maybe top 20, but not a contender for top spot.
@chplatinum15 actually not all that but i get what ur saying, 87-0 is hard, but only titles in 3 div, 50 somthin fights in mexico, just like cesar chavez jr right now, but chavez jr is a piece of shit, chavez did have talent, if u ask me....u should be on salvador sanchez dick, he is the greatest mexican to have lived to this date, style wise, and effectiveness, he dies at 23....shame
sugar ray robinson will always be number1 unless som1 is undefeated in like 150 title fights wich will never happen becus people have 40 50 fight careers
Sugar Ray Robinson had 85 fights before he was allowed to fight for a world title. No doubt he is the greatest. Tyson in his prime is up there with any heavyweight who ever lived. But Muhammad Ali is the greatest. No one could move like him and sustain it like he could. No one.
his opinions depend on the country they live in. for mexicans is jc chavez and salvador sanchez and for pricans is a puerto rican and for americans is an american etc etc
1 Sugar Ray Robinson 2 Muhammad Ali 3 Joe Louis 4 Henry Armstrong 5 Sugar Ray Leonard 6 Roy Jones Jr 7 Roberto Duran 8 Marvellous Marvin Hagler 9 Meldrick Taylor 10 wilie pep You know this makes sense.......its based on skill level alone.
@SirHappyThe1st I like how you put meldrik taylor above Julio Cesar Chavez? lol yea right. Taylor got destroyed both fights against him and taylor was never the same after the first fight whether he had won or lost he still would have kept losing. Chavez deserves to be in the top 5 in my opinion.
If you want speed, balance and beauty go to the ballet. Simply not enough emphasis placed on the heavyweight division as everybody merely assumed Ali wins. I accept that Ali could take incredible punishment like his body was made of clay but several fighters could have still whipped him. George Foreman was completely robbed by the quick count and could have got up in the rumble in the jungle and Ali dodged him. Both Tyson and Klitschko would have the edge against him. "Experts" miss the obvious.
U have got 2 be the biggest prick 2 ever breath. Tyson would have got taken apart by Ali boxing brain!!!!/ Klitschko wouldn't have even been a sparing partner 4 him and forman knows he didnt have what it took 2 beat him. But yet u no better than he does.FOOL Tyson had a 4 year peak Ali spanned over 2 decades and beat the best era of heavyweights that there has ever been (THE GOLDEN ERA)
George Foreman was exhausted and if he would have gotten up the fight would have been stopped.Klitscho is only impressive due to the lack luster state of the Heavy Weight Division.Yes.Iron Mike Tyson vs Ali in their primes.Tyson would have got him.The only way Ali wins is if he runs and I mean run's all night.For that matter he should be disqualified.
Once again.Tysons head movement would have negated Ali's exclusive head attack.Tyson would have hunted Ali and landed at a higher percentage at the end of the night.The running and lack of punches connected would not have been impressive to the judges.If in fact the fight went the distants.
i love tyson but he wont win. hed be too angry and ali loves that. he beat the monster in Liston and hed beat the moster in Tyson.
dont give this bull shit about tyson hits really hard cus so did frazier, formena, shavers and liston. they all applied great pressure and tyson has nothing over any of them.
tyson applied great pressure and acted real big against shit fighter.
holyfield bought at the best in him and all he did was bit the shit out of him.
Tyson maybe didn't hit harder than frazier or foreman but he was 10x faster, had better head controll and movement and went for bodyshots way more. So he was better.
There are a thousand other thing exept speed that are important. Foreman was much bigger = better reach, stronger in the clinch what takes energie from the opponent, more punching power. Foreman was good in cutting of the ring, had a better chin then Tyson, and more hearth.
Frazier his headmovement was the same level as Tyson. Frazier was slower and didn't have a strong right like Tyson, but he had much more heart and better stanima, he would take Tyson out in the later rounds.
In Tyson fights up to about Spinks he had more heart than many, and his head movement was better than any of those, yes maybe Foreman had way better reach but Tyson used his short reach to his own benefit. And he also was great at cutting the ring. Tyson also had great stamina as a younger boxer, it was later in his career where it failed. And about more punching power both of them could knock out anyone they wanted.
In my eyes, you only see if a man has heart when things go bad for him. When he's rock bodem and there is no more hope, keep fighting till the end, that's heart. Yes, Tyson trained like an animal and gived it all he had when things were going good for him. Name me one fight were he was behinde and came back? Foreman was WAY behinde against Moorer, Lyle knocked him down, ...
About Tyson his short arms being an advantadge against Foreman: just look what happend to Frazier.
You can also see if a man has heart if he fights his way up and gives all in my opinion, sets a goal and accomplishes it. That was what Tyson did. And I still think that Tyson would have done better against Foreman than Frazier did so who knows what the outcome of that fight would be. And I have never seen an undefeated heavyweight champion such as Spinks look so afraid as he did when he was about to fight Tyson.
I know it from my personal life, when things go your way, it's easy to be motivated. When things go bad, that's when you can see who has heart and who hasn't.
Tyson was a swarmer, like Frazier. Just like Frazier Tyson was vulnerable to the uppercut. Maybe he would do better then Frazier, maybe he would last 6 rounds, who nows. But he wouldn't make it for 12 rounds.
I guess the meaning of "having heart" might be a little different for Swedish people, or just me :). Well that might be true but then again if Foreman got hit hard many times in the early rounds he might have gained more respect for Tyson and probably would have been knocked out either early or late in the fight.
Comon, are you gonna say Tyson had heart like Foreman? The man got stuck on drugs, bit a guys ear of if he couldn't win, stopped his last fight on the stool, never came back when he was behinde.
Tyson against Foreman, he never won against a fighter of that caliber. If you realy think that he could bully him like he did Spinks then you have a hell of lot to learn about him. George fought almost 70 fights, Tommy Morisson ran away from Foreman and foreman was in his 40's then!
I have to agree. Tyson was tailor made for Foreman. Cus D'Amato would tell Tyson he could NEVER beat Foreman. Tyson even admitted he was afraid of fighting Foreman because "he's a fucking animal."
And that is a good point: Tyson never got up off the deck to win.
@TheChoice264 I DONT CARE WHAT U DOUBT... I KNOW!!!!
1.Sugar ray robinson
2.SALVADOR SANCHEZ
3.willie pep
4. Benny leonard
TOP 4 GREATEST P4P BOXERS IN HIZTORY!!!!
5.____________ (insert here) HAHAHAHAHAHA
TheFUTUREZHizTORY 4 days ago
SALVADOR SANCHEZ WOULDVE BEAT ALL THESE DUDES.... HAHAHA REST.IN.PARADISE CHAMP
TheFUTUREZHizTORY 2 months ago
@TheFUTUREZHizTORY I doubt it.
TheChoice264 6 days ago
I was very surprised at some of the great fighters they left out. Barney Ross was a great fighter who I feel should have got a mention. I believe Harry Greb another true great was also left out of this discussion, that's shocking!! Joe Gans, Stanley Ketchel etc so many names spring to mind that should have been mentioned. Well I guess they only had an hour, but they certainly left out some of the best ever.
XavierMarciano 4 months ago
@XavierMarciano true that mate!!! Harry Breb is in my top 5 p4p of all time, fantastic fighter.
HomeOfBritishBoxing 4 months ago
@XavierMarciano they did'ent left out no one them guys were good but not d best u need to look and read there is something call statistics
MrDieselmac 3 months ago
@pkbosslac HAHAHAHAHA no
MrBumboclart 6 months ago
@pkbosslac, well in my opinion, Whitaker wasn't a natural Welterweight, either. He was dwarfed by some of his 147 lb opponents. But he was a better technical boxer than Chavez, which counts for more than size. My problem I have for all these 'reasons' why Chavez was outboxed by Whitaker is that they only magically appeared after the fight. Anyway, regardless of their bout, his performances and skills at the highest level don't impress me as much as Whitaker's. But Chavez is still a true legend.
iljn1988 6 months ago
@pkbosslac, can't really take you seriously when you've been reduced to namecalling like a 9 year old. You do know that when they were both at Lightweight it was Chavez who decided to jump up a division rather than consider a Whitaker fight, don't you? Chavez an 'alcoholic?' No, he just liked his beer, and if he's boozing too much that's HIS FAULT. So are you trying to tell me people were saying Chavez was past his prime BEFORE the fight? Of course they weren't. Just a convenient excuse after.
iljn1988 6 months ago
@pkbosslac, you Chavez nuthuggers are nearly as bad as Tyson groupies. Excuse after excuse after excuse. Absolutely NOBODY was saying that Chavez was 'past prime' before the Whitaker fight. He was the big betting favourite and had scored two very good wins / performances in the year before. Whitaker boxes his ears off, and lo and behold "oh, he wasn't in his prime!" Whitaker was just the better boxer. And Chavez had fought well as a Welterweight before, more than once.
iljn1988 6 months ago
@pkbosslac He did fight nobodies and got this hyped up bullshit undefeated records, moved up north to fight REAL competitors and what happened? He got totally outclassed by Taylor and got lucky in the last round and he got owned by Pernell, De La Hoya and all them guys. You want me to continue?
MrBumboclart 6 months ago
SALVADOR SANCHEZ THE GREATEST!!!! FUCK THE REST HAHAHA
TheFUTUREZHizTORY 7 months ago
Whitaker belongs above Chavez, no doubt. We all know that Chavez was damn lucky to get the 'draw' when they met. Whitaker dominated a 'classic' division at Lightweight, to the point where only Duran and Benny Leonard can rank above him at 135 lb. He was almost as great as a Welterweight, too. Not many have been nigh-on untochable in two of the eight original weights. Whitaker didn't need the strokes of luck Chavez had now and then either. Chavez is a legend & true great. But Whitaker is greater.
iljn1988 7 months ago
@iljn1988 the first fight was a fair and square draw,,everyone seems to forget that chaves won the early rounds,,he won 5 out of the 6 early rounds,,,and then took the 12...the fights where closer than everyone makes them out to be,,,,,and the taylor fights come on, chaves destroyd him LITERALLY..chavez nock him down in the last seconds, its like a game winning shot in basketball...he dint respond to the ref,,his corner told him to go all out cuz they needed the round,,he doomed himself..
OchoaPrideMex4Life 6 months ago
@OchoaPrideMex4Life, what do you mean 'first fight?' He only fought Whitaker once. And no, that was not a fair draw at all, it was a disgraceful verdict. Whitaker won at least 8 rounds, probably 9. Like Al Bernstein said, it was the worst robbery in 20 years. Chavez showed what a magnificent champion he was against Taylor, but he was still a little lucky. It was a contentious stoppage. Wonderful comeback of course, but that fight showed Chavez's weakness against slick counter-punchers.
iljn1988 6 months ago
@iljn1988 your right for some odd reason i was thinking about de la hoya fight,,,,,,, but im telling you watch the fight again,,,,,most the rounds where hard to judge...it was closer than what the comentators of the fight say,,,,whitaker was taking the later rounds thats why alot of people think he won the fight,,,and if you think this was a huge robbery,,,than wow you would have a heart attack when you see other bs scorecards.....
OchoaPrideMex4Life 6 months ago
@OchoaPrideMex4Life, it was a huge robbery. Not THE worst I've seen, but still an awful decision. After six rounds, Chavez was AT BEST on level terms. At best. Now, I'm sure even you will admit that Whitaker clearly won rounds 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11. Round 12 is debatable, can make a case either way. So Chavez either won 3 or 4 rounds, Whitaker clearly took 8 or 9. Simple as that. Look at their faces after the decision is announced - Chavez knows he's got away with it.
iljn1988 6 months ago
@iljn1988 if you have round 12 as debatable,,,than yhea i see how you have whitaker winning the fight.....
OchoaPrideMex4Life 6 months ago
julio cesar chavez ray robinson willie pep marvin hagler henry armstrong pernell whitaker and muhammad ali
that is the perfect list
AND THE CORRECT LIST PUT FORWARD BY A REAL EXPERT
johnosandra 7 months ago in playlist JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ - ESPN CLASSIC DOCUMENTARY
And once again no mention of Harry Greb. All respect to Ali, he was the greatest heavyweight of all times but he can't tough at least 5 or 6 other lower weight fighters when it comes to P4P. I'm also suprised Kid Gavilan or Aaron Pryor weren't mentioned, or Ezzard Charles.
MrBumboclart 7 months ago
@MrBumboclart julio cesar chavez is the greatest of all time
johnosandra 7 months ago in playlist JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ - ESPN CLASSIC DOCUMENTARY
@johnosandra LOL he's far from it. He built up a big unbeaten record against nobody Mexcians, soon as he crossed the boarder and fought top competitors in Whitaker and Taylor he got schooled. Tough and strong - yes, the greatest of all times? no.
MrBumboclart 7 months ago
@MrBumboclart BAHAHAHA your repeating what you have been told by americans
he drew with whitaker and beat taylor twice the first of which was of the greatest fights ever
he dominated the best for over ten years
he fought the greatest competition around
he was 90-0 against great fighters i have seen all of his fights i have them on vhs
greatest balance rythem timing expertise and accurate he can also take 500 punches from a great fighter(no facial damage)and still ko his opponent
johnosandra 7 months ago
@johnosandra So you're saying his a GOAT for being a punching bag? He was a flat footed slugger with a decent chin, he wasn't the hardest hitting welterweight, he wasn't the toughest welterweight, he wasn't the fastest welterweight and he wasn't the greatest welterweight. You're deluded if you think otherwise, you sound like one of those dumb Pacquiao fans who think he is the ATG of boxing. At welterweight SRR, Henry Armstrong and Aaron Pryor wudda whupped him.
MrBumboclart 7 months ago
@MrBumboclart sorry son boxing isnt about being the fastest toughest or strongest
im not going to school you anymore son
you will never get anywhere in boxing
johnosandra 7 months ago
@MrBumboclart flat footed?
lol go converse with your incompetent associates about your idiotic boxing philosophy
your a chump
johnosandra 7 months ago
@johnosandra you my friend are a chump, at welter he would get owned by too many fighters to name. And yes flat footed, are you a retard or something? i don't recall chavez dancing i recall him getting outboxed because of his lazy footwork by taylor and whitaker.
MrBumboclart 7 months ago
@MrBumboclart no one in boxing would say anything remotely close to what you said
only nobodys like you say things like that
he knocked out taylor twice you stupid cunt lol
a 35 year old chavez lost to whitaker by dccision after a draw
90-0
rosario was just as good as any great fighter and didnt win a single round
roger mayweather was a great fighter and got ko'ed twice by chavez
how about you type in julio cesar chavez top 15 wins
he fought oppenents that where great in any era
90-0
johnosandra 7 months ago
@johnosandra Whitaker was robbed and Taylor was robbed in their first fights. Great or not the likes of Sugar Ray Robinson, Harry Greb, Sam Langford, Willie Pep, Henry Armstrong and Roberto Duran ALL rank higher than he did and P4P would have kicked his ass big time.
MrBumboclart 7 months ago
@MrBumboclart CHAVEZ EXECUTE SKILLFUL FOOTWORK MANEUVERS ON PAR WITH ANY GREAT FIGHTER
LOL ITS HIS FOOTSPEED AND PERFECT FOOTWORK THAT ENABLES HIM TO NULLIFY ANYTHING YOU THROW AT HIM WHETHER IT BE BRILLIANT SPEED LIKE MELDRICK TAYLOR OR GREAT POWER LIKE ROSARIO
CHAVEZ HAS EVERYTHING AND CAN PULL IT OUT AND NEVER PERFORMED BAD ONCE
ALL MEXICAN EXPERTS SAY HES THE GREATEST
IM AN AUSTRALIAN EXPERT AND I SAY HE IS
POMS AND AMERICANS SAY POMS AND AMERICANS
CHAVEZ IS THE REAL DEAL
PERFECTION
johnosandra 7 months ago
@johnosandra I don't care what you say. And OBVIOUSLY Mexicans will say he's the greatest when he was outlcassed by Taylor and Whitaker - Whitaker ranks x10 higher than Chavez as do many more.
MrBumboclart 7 months ago
@MrBumboclart so you are saying he was outclassed by someone he knock out twice in two fights? and leve him with brain damadge by the way
zapatero39 7 months ago
@zapatero39 Did you watch Taylor-Chavez one? Are you seriously going to say Chavez was the better fighter that night? Really? He KNOCKED HIM DOWN he never knocked him out, and Taylor was winning a decision on all score cards. Chavez got lucky, like he did with Whitaker - just another hyped up Don King fighter who really wasn't that good but got far fighting nobodies and using connections.
MrBumboclart 7 months ago
@MrBumboclart and in the rematch? wats your explanation for that?
zapatero39 7 months ago
@zapatero39 meldrick was brain damaged from the first one and lost fair a square.
MrBumboclart 7 months ago
@MrBumboclart Chavez.Was'nt that good,my God you are a hard man to please.
song4clay 7 months ago
@song4clay Well two of his biggest opponents, Taylor and Whitaker totally outclassed him. He could be outboxed easilly.
MrBumboclart 6 months ago
@MrBumboclart What Pernell Whitaker made look easy is what 99% of other fighters could'nt dream of ever doing.And weather Taylor was Wrongley stopped or not after his tremendous effort(Which i actually think he was)At the end of that fight he was bruised bloodied and out on his feet.I'm not saying Chavez is the best ever(he's not)But like i said to you before "not that good,you are hard to please.
song4clay 6 months ago
@song4clay OK, but all I'm saying is there are probably 15-20 fighters better than Chavez, he ranks around the early 20's to the late 30's in my opinion.
MrBumboclart 6 months ago
@MrBumboclart the punishment of Taylor had that night was brutal!the best man won that night?Yes! Chavez finished Taylor's carrier!and let's take a look of record of those 2 fighters off course!J.C Chavez deserve to won that fight!
viktor284 7 months ago
@viktor284 won or not he was outclassed
MrBumboclart 6 months ago
@MrBumboclart watch the rosario fight
the greatest boxer of all time is the one so refined you simply cannot refine it more
julio cesar chavez defines his style and refined it like it had been passed down in generations with thousands of trainers refining it over time but no chavez did this all on his own
chavez is a god too much for any man
only man to achieve perfection in a boxing ring
you can refine any fighter but not chavez
he has a world of knowledge and maneuvers
mentally=nails
johnosandra 7 months ago
Yr right about whitaker, I have nelsons career on dvd and I love pernells masterclass (hey to the person that said joe calzaghe showed lacy how to box? Go check out nelson, who had only lost to potential goat at feather sal sanchez, get humiliated by sweet pea) he hits him behind his back!. Mayweather learned a lot from watching that fight, it shows.
RapedByRepublicans 8 months ago
4.46 is this porn?
ha9223 8 months ago
BUTTERBEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ha9223 8 months ago
@ha9223 BUTTERBEAN IS THE GREATEST I AGREE LOL.the king of the 4 round fights tyson didnt even except his challenge to a 4 round championship LOL.great comment brotha
12jahwarrior 7 months ago
no sweet pea
coolmartcola 8 months ago
JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ BEST EVER
zague1717 8 months ago
Barry McGuigan is absolutely correct about the Great Duran!
judaschongo 9 months ago
They mention Azumah Nelson AND Julio Cesar Chavez (great great great boxers btw) and yet. NO MENTION OF PERNELL WHITAKER???
This makes no sense and is a complete f***ing travesty. He beat BOTH men in showboating fashion.
ThyChrysanthemum 10 months ago
@ThyChrysanthemum i know right..sweet pea beat chavez...
coolmartcola 8 months ago
SALVADOR SANCHEZ THE GREATEST!!! HE'Z THE MEXICAN BRUCE LEE!!! WITHOUT KARATE KICKZ HAHA ALL THEM BUSTERZ R LUCKY HE DIED EARLY...HE WOULD OF FUCKD UP ANYBODY... FRM THE PAST, IN HIS DAY, AND ANY BITCH MADE BOXER U NAME 2DAY!!! REST.IN.PARADISE CHAMP!!! MEXICA TIAHUI MEXICA TIAHUI MEXICA TIAHUI
TheFUTUREZHizTORY 10 months ago
It's hard to take someone serious when they have a wig on.
949galaxy 11 months ago
Marquez vs Pacquiao = Pacquiao SD 12
Mayweather vs De la Hoya = Mayweather SD 12. then Pacquiao vs De la Hoya
Mayweather vs Hatton = Mayweather TKO 10 then Pacquiao vs Hatton
Margarito vs Cotto = Margarito TKO 11 then Pacquiao vs Cotto
Cotto vs Clottey = Cotto UD 12 then Pacquiao vs Clottey
Mosley vs Margarito = Mosley TKO 9 then Pacquiao vs Margarito
Mayweather vs Mosley = Mayweather UD 12 then Pacquiao vs Mosley
Pacman fights left overs !
elbuddy 1 year ago 2
@elbuddy you realize how stupid you are? you seem like a clown to me.
wrong.. what other boxers can win by decision pacquioa win by tko. it's that simple.
you seem to argue once a boxer has at least one lost..prior to fighting pac..they are already worthless..you gotta be drunk from drinking your own piss.
akosihelbert 6 months ago
@akosihelbert lol a pactard....your a fucking idiot pac is good but he is not even in the top 50,,,,
OchoaPrideMex4Life 6 months ago
@akosihelbert This is not about Knocking other boxers out .. sure its a more impressive way to win.. and I am a boxer you dumb fuck.. He is on something.. either is legal or not he is on something.. HOW the fuck do you have problems with guys at lightweight division and knock out guys at welterweight division... ?? I know what its like to fight in a greater weight class its FUCKING HARD! ok i know Pac is a WORLD champion and he is in another level but still...
elbuddy 6 months ago
@elbuddy yeah..but still you got more to go..you amateur booger.
do you even know the word dedication? that's the reason for his greatness.
just because the guy's so good..doesn't mean he's cheating. it's just that he's a rare specimen. once in a lifetime.
maybe you find it hard to fight bigger guy cause, first. you not pacquiao, and second you will never even be half of his greatness..though how hard you try. there will only be one pacman,
akosihelbert 6 months ago
Pacman is the greatest of all times. Better than Duran and SRL and hearns.
Many took Duran the distance. Pacs great opponents cant see the last round with Pac and they look like elephant man. Duran only did that to Davey Moore, and only cos he lost sight in his eye.
Pac does it to all his opponents and he gets better with age, cos he was WIP early on, with no proper trainer.
rowanatkin 1 year ago
@rowanatkin, what a joke, you can't be serious surely? How long have you been following boxing? Duran would have snapped Pacquiao in two. Pacquiao has never dominated a 'classic' division the way that Duran did at Lightweight, and hasn't got a single, individual win on his record that can even remotely be compared to Duran's over Leonard. Christ Almighty, you judge a fighter's greatness on what their opponents face looks like after a fight? Says it all really. Pac is great, but 30th at best.
iljn1988 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@rowanatkin LOL! you've got to be kidding right!
judaschongo 9 months ago
@aragon522 you're obviously a RACIST. It simply reflected in your much earlier comment. Why should you name names and include ones country?
misterRR1000 1 year ago
If MP is an american product,how about Mayweather who should have fought long beforehand Mosley, Margarito, Cotto,Williams, and maybe Berto? Why also until now Berto haven't fought any of these boxers? The Boxing Organizations are just simply protecting also these 2 undefeated guys so that their records will not be tainted n b marketable for long as what they're enjoyong now; like others in history of boxing..
misterRR1000 1 year ago
J Marquez is 37 n stil getting better n beating incumbent champions n younger previous champions. When Chavez was demolished by DLH he's 34,but after that he still got many wins until he reached 38 yrs old when he was stopped by undeafeted Kotzya Tzu. MP is now 32 n like J Marquez is still getting better n continously beating much bigger incumbent n previous champions.
misterRR1000 1 year ago
@misterRR1000 chavez was champ for 11 years c-mon dude please
CUSTOMLIFR 1 year ago
@aragon522 Facts; Wen MP demolished barrera in their 1st n 2nd bouts,barrera is 28 n 32 yrs old; wen MP stopped Morales in their 2nd n 3rd match,Morales is 29 n 30 yrs old. Wit Hatton,he is 30;Cotto is 28;n DLH is 35. In boxing history, for champions,early 30s it's still ok,when their names r getting bigger n where they faced bigger champions.Remember,MANY became champions n remained champions at 30s. Hopkins def. undeafeted Pavlik at 43;Mosley KO'd champion Margarito at 37; ETC.
misterRR1000 1 year ago
Lego head is still rocking that hair cut.
Ultrisound 1 year ago
@misterRR1000analyze this, Chavez: 1 of the greatest chins ever, a extreme accuracy, an extremly good defense, amazing power(practicly all his oponents urinate blood for the power of his body pounch), an hes considered as the best brawler ever... Pacquiao is a brawler, and try to brawl against Chavez was a suicide..
Do you know anithing about a boxer called Meldrick Taylor???
he was faster than Pacquio, but he face Chavez...hes retard now D:
Aragorn522 1 year ago
@Aragorn522 hey man i love chavez hes the icon of boxing but dont disrespect taylor he gave it his all man i actually feel bad for that man give him the up most respect but fuck pac he would end up all stupified chavez for life
361tejas 1 year ago
@361tejas i dont wana insult taylor D:
But he has a brain problem right now is the truth...
And yep, pac is a fraud :(
Aragorn522 1 year ago
@misterRR1000 hahaha poor pactard:
CHAVEZ: 6 titles, holds records for most successful consecutive defenses of world titles (27), most title fights (37), most title-fight victories (31), and most title defenses won by knockout (21). Chávez also has the longest undefeated streak in boxing history, 13 years.
PACQUIAO: 8 titles....nothing more xD
yep pacquiao is an extremly good boxer, but Chavez.... hes just the best AND HE HOLDS THE BEST RECORD IN BOXING HISTORY :D
Aragorn522 1 year ago
@Aragorn522 i'm sorry to inform you, i doubt very much if those opponents of chavez were better than pacquiao's opponents. you can simply compared their records at wikipedia...boxrec.. and i doubt if chavez will win against MP,if chavez is at his prime. you can simply analyze their style, power, techniques,speed and power.
misterRR1000 1 year ago
@misterRR1000 so? all the boxers that Pacquiao face were already out of their prime, Morales, De la Hoya, Barrera, Cotto, Hatton, all they were already out of their prime. And the only good boxer on his prime that Pacquiao face, Marquez, clary outbox pac and won against him..
But you are just another pactard :D
Its dificult to know that your only P4P in history, and probably the only one, is just a product of american marketing :3
Aragorn522 1 year ago
the pound 4 pound title. is simply down to opinion.
SuperRehmat 1 year ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Roy Jones Jr is the greatest of all time DOMINATED 2 hall of famers in there prime. Moved up from middleweight to heavyweight won 40+ fights no real losses, NOT ONE COMPETITIVE FIGHT during that span.
No boxers before Ali should be considered 99% of fighters were weekend warriors. Ali is the man that made boxing a profession. 99% of the fighters that Sugar Ray Robinson fought were weekend warriors.
tatertots00 1 year ago
@iljn1988 maybe you should ask ARUM why he picked PACQUIAO AS THE BEST BOXER OF ALL TIME. Arum is in boxing for 60 yrs. Ask also T.Atlas why he picked Manny as the 2ND BEST BOXER OF ALL TIME. He's no.1 (negative) critic of Manny.
misterRR1000 1 year ago
@misterRR1000, first of all, Arum is an absolute cunt of a bloke, as is Atlas (who is as mad as a rat in a tin shit house too, by the way). Secondly, Arum is Pacquiao's promoter, hardly surprising he bigs him up as he is Arum's cash cow. Look, if you honestly think that Pacquiao is the greatest of all time, there is ZERO hope for you. If you can't be bothered to actually learn about boxing history, then there's no point discussing with you anymore. It's like talking to a brick wall.
iljn1988 1 year ago
@iljn1988 JUST NO MUDSLINGING TO OTHERS SIR. Let's wait a little more time what history will tell.... For now it's PACQUIAO ERA AND HE HAS THE BEST RECORD!
misterRR1000 1 year ago
Comment removed
Aragorn522 1 year ago
Level these if any boxer can: MANY PACQUIAO,d only LINEAL CHAMPION in history of boxing. It means he beats the best champs.He's the only 8 WEIGHT DIV. WORLD CHAMP in history of boxing. He beat barrera,morales,marquez,hatton n cotto ALL 3 WEIGHT DIV. LONG TIME WORLD CHAMPS; Larios 2 WEIGHT DIV. LONG TIME WORLD CHAMP; Margarito 2x WELTERWEIGHT WORLD CHAMP n 2 WEIGHT DIV. WORLD CHAMP; dela hoya 6 WEIGHT DIV. LONG TIME WORLD CHAMP. And take note,how PACQUIAO beat these CHAMPIONS..
misterRR1000 1 year ago
World class Champs for the past 3 decades r better compared to old classic Champs before for the simple reason of ADVANCE MODERN TRAINING,SUPPLEMENTS,n STRATEGIES. Boxing now is SCIENCE unlike before, just power to power n purely instinct.. That,s y ALI is the best to most old timer boxing experts, bcos he REVOLUTIONZED boxing; as like Bruce Lee in Martial Arts.
misterRR1000 1 year ago
@misterRR1000 if modern day training and supplements are so much better, then why is 80-odd percent of the Heavyweight talent pool fat, flabby and out of shape? Were the top contenders of the fifties and sixties so grossly overweight and underconditioned? You've CLEARLY never watched boxing before the 80s, if you did you'd know that there were plenty of scientific fighters. And haven't you noticed there are just as many unscientific fighters who are all power around now as there was in the 50s?
iljn1988 1 year ago
@iljn1988 what i wrote is WORLD CLASS CHAMPS not all boxers.Greatness of a boxer should not weight if how many wins he got or if he's undefeateted, it should b on THE QUALITY n RECORDS OF HIS OPPONENTS n how he defeated them. Face the facts: See CHAVEZ record at wikipedia n compare it to PACQUIAO's record. 75% of Chavez opponents were UNKNOWN n most of his opponents too have POOR RECORDS. With Leonard,he admitted he lost to hearns in their 2nd bout; n a very questionable win over Lalonde.
misterRR1000 1 year ago
Hopkins and Roy Jones are better than Sugar ray robinson, if technique,power,style,stamina and strategy are concern. Most champions now are far better than previous old champions because of MODERN TRAINING ADVANCEMENT NOW.Sorry, if i offended too many...
misterRR1000 1 year ago
@misterRR1000, you couldn't be more wrong. There's technical wizards and simple sluggers in every generation, and technical wizards are no more or less common now than they were sixty years ago. Your Jones comment in particular makes no sense at all - he's about as technically INCORRECT as a boxer can be. He got by on athleticism, not boxing technique. And I'm sorry, if you compare Pacquiao to say, Benny Leonard, it's clear who has the better technique and it's not the man from the Phillipines.
iljn1988 1 year ago
Comment removed
misterRR1000 1 year ago
@misterRR1000 I have to respectfully disagree with you man. Hopkins and Roy Jones are inferior fighters compared to Robinson. Jones was flawed technically, he had tremendous speed and athleticism. But when he got older you saw how flawed he was when his speed and athleticism deserted him. As for Hopkins and Jones are not bigger punchers than Ray, they are not better technically or in the stamina department. Modern Training does not make you a better Boxer, or gives you better Boxing skills.
coolins112 1 year ago
Chek chavez pro.boxrec at wikipedia,75% of his opponents were unknown n hv very poor records n even unverified. Best boxers shud not weight their greatness by their many wins,or if they'r undefeated,but they shud weight by QUALITY OF THEIR OPPONENTS. It's PACQUIAO or ALI,bcos they DEMOLISHED MOST OF D CHAMPS during their time in weight divisions they competed.Duran can't be bcos he lost most of his big fights.Leonard can't b also,he admitted he lost to hearns in 2nd fight n a ? win to Lalonde.
misterRR1000 1 year ago
CHAVEZ... THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHITAKER JUST HUGGED AND RAN AWAY FROM HIM. MAYBE ROBINSON IS SECOND BEST BUT THAT´S BECAUSE HE WAS FROM THE USA, NOT MANY LATINOS WERE KNOWN THERE THEN. MANY LATINOS WERE BETTER THAN ROBINSON FROM MEXICO, ARGENTINA, CENTRAL AMERICA, ETC, BUT WERE NOT IN THE US ATMOSPHERE.
budfr 1 year ago
@budfr Meldrick Taylor beat the shit out of him for 11 rounds and 2.58 seconds
Mikey2936 1 year ago
@Mikey2936 NO WAY, MELDRICK SLAPPED HIM FOR A WHILE, THAT´S IT. THE POWER PINCHING AND THE DESTRUCTION WAS FINISHED AT 2: 58 OF THE LAST ROUND.
budfr 1 year ago
@budfr a while!!!?? he dominated the forst 10 rounds!!!! watch the fight again. No way should Richard Steele have stopped that fight it was ridiculous, Chavez should have lost to Taylor
Mikey2936 1 year ago
@Mikey2936 I already watched it many times. Most people, including the ringside doctor, agreed that the fight was correctly stopped. Tyalor was not the same after that fight. Steele didn´t know what was the remaining time. Imagine if there was like a minute left, Chavez was going to Ko him and pretty bad!! One punch of Chavez equaled to 3 from Taylor. And don´t forget the rematch.
budfr 1 year ago
when u think boxing ALI!!! THE BEST OF ALL TIMES
tatojunco 1 year ago
what people don't like to admit or flat out overlook is Chavez's sub par quality of competition! & the obvious fact that he didn't even debut in 1 of the original 8 weight divisions.
credit to Barry McGuigan for his recognition of Roberto Duran!
judaschongo 1 year ago
These pound-for-pound discussions, whilst somewhat entertaining, are ultimately really pointless because every blind man and his dog knows and recognizes that Ray Robinson was/is/will forever be regarded as the all-time greatest of them all. He was the perfect fighting machine. That is just pure fact.
Bloufo 1 year ago
Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest
2.Ali
3.Louis
4.Pep
5.Duran
6.Chavez
DAV1EBOYEE510 1 year ago
SUGAR RAY ROBINSON,ALI.JOE LOUIS.CHAVEZ LEONARD
CHINOVILLEZCAS 1 year ago
fucking white cock suckers.......accept it... mexicans boxers Has cleaner and better record than any usa or uk boxers....YOU ARE NOT THE CENTER OF THE BOXING....LOL FUCKING WANKAS
usernamesrx 1 year ago
Ali will always be no,1 for me ..... he transcended sport and became the most recognised man on the planet ..... brave beyond question ..... took a great punch. The reason why I say he is the best ever is because his opponents were some of the greatest ever ...... Foreman, Liston & Frazier are in most peoples Top 10 heavyweights ever ..... then you add Norton, Lyle, Shavers, etc. Ali was the greatest in a golden era of great heavyweights.
TheEnoughisEnough 1 year ago
Sugar Ray Robinson.. damn dont need to make a debate for know that...
sugarfrankjr 1 year ago
robinson will not win against hopkins or roy jones at their prime.
misterRR1000 1 year ago
BOXING NOW IS TOO ADVANCE... TECHNIQUES,TRAINING,STAMINA,POWER, IT'S SCIENCE... New champions 2day may far advance now compare to old champions b4. I'll go for Pacquiao for being d only 7 Weight Divs. World Champion.beating morales,barrera,marquez, hatton,n cotto all 3 Weight Divs. World Champs; larios 2 Weight Divs World Champ; n dela hoya 6 Weight Divs World Champ. Mayweather is avoiding cotto, williams, berto, margarito,clottey n now pacquiao. He also avoided mosley during his prime.
misterRR1000 1 year ago
@misterRR1000 pacquiao lost the biggest fight of the last years in boxing against Marquez , superfeatherweight (no matter if business around boxing prefers, decided and choose mp for some reasons)...
LyricSofDeatH 1 year ago
@misterRR1000 the number of titles in different divisions are not a good reason to say who is better... dlh reach 6 but chavez was better (their fights were in the beginning of the end of chavezs career)...
another example: some fighters like arce, will fight for other division title, but he never will be in the places of Marquez, Morales, finito Lopez, etc.......
LyricSofDeatH 1 year ago
@misterRR1000 pacquiao is very good, but press and businnes around boxing are lying (they need to "make" exaggerated sport heroes, obviously)
hes in the same step of the stair with Marquez and other very good fighters... sorry but is the truth.....
LyricSofDeatH 1 year ago
@LyricSofDeatH btw who's your best of all time pd 4 pd boxer?
misterRR1000 1 year ago
@misterRR1000
Why do pactards find their way to every discussion?
HolyRollerTV 1 year ago
@HolyRollerTV WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM?!
misterRR1000 1 year ago
I am surprised Henry Armstrong din't get more of a nod. It desrves #2,
mychalpryor24 1 year ago
lot of people forget pernell whitaker
redgoat1111111 1 year ago
hey 818lashr look at sugar ray robinson 175 wins! and 19 losses come on with all those fights u would suspect more losses but ma man ray is #1 r.i.p robinson
PROBOT27 1 year ago
Had these guys not been american and bias towards picking only americans. Julio Cesar Chavez in definatly one of the greatest of all time. NO question about it. There will never be another man with that kind of record. PERIOD.
chplatinum15 2 years ago 11
@chplatinum15 there not american there english and they gave him his respect.
redgoat1111111 1 year ago
@chplatinum15 None of these guys are american.
sje1964 1 year ago
@chplatinum15 - They are three Englishman and an Irishman on BRITISH TV not Americans you peanut!
TheEnoughisEnough 1 year ago
@chplatinum15 - They are three Englishman and an Irishman on BRITISH TV not Americans you peanut!
TheEnoughisEnough 1 year ago
@chplatinum15, there's no bias against Chavez here at all. He was great, no doubt about it; but he's a long way off the Robinsons, Armstrongs and Grebs of this world. Statistics are misleading, and besides, people HAVE had better records than Chavez's 98-2-1 as it stood then. Willie Pep was something like 135-1 at one stage.
He beat some wonderful fighters, but the very best technical boxer he faced (Whitaker) made him look a bit daft. Chavez is maybe top 20, but not a contender for top spot.
iljn1988 1 year ago
@chplatinum15 they are british
evol121 1 year ago
@chplatinum15 Did you just say that the guys in this video are "American"? You are incomprehensibly stupid.
LMW87MMA 1 year ago
@chplatinum15 actually not all that but i get what ur saying, 87-0 is hard, but only titles in 3 div, 50 somthin fights in mexico, just like cesar chavez jr right now, but chavez jr is a piece of shit, chavez did have talent, if u ask me....u should be on salvador sanchez dick, he is the greatest mexican to have lived to this date, style wise, and effectiveness, he dies at 23....shame
K1LLiLLuminati 1 year ago
Comment removed
KeepinEmTidyBawBags 1 year ago
@chplatinum15 There British therefore are not bias to only picking Americans, Sugar Ray Robinson NO1
KeepinEmTidyBawBags 1 year ago
sugar ray robinson will always be number1 unless som1 is undefeated in like 150 title fights wich will never happen becus people have 40 50 fight careers
lee1990lee 2 years ago
Sugar Ray Robinson had 85 fights before he was allowed to fight for a world title. No doubt he is the greatest. Tyson in his prime is up there with any heavyweight who ever lived. But Muhammad Ali is the greatest. No one could move like him and sustain it like he could. No one.
truthhitmanisback 2 years ago
every body make up ur own favorite list ===duran ===chaves====sanchez
marqismarqis 2 years ago
@marqismarqis 1 robinson 2 armstrong 3 gans
mitchyo11 2 years ago
@mitchyo11 nah, willie pep is above gans. way to include him, though. a lot of people forget him. sam langford and barney ross also
cstrait 1 year ago
u must be mexican lol
kingmaxx 1 year ago
his opinions depend on the country they live in. for mexicans is jc chavez and salvador sanchez and for pricans is a puerto rican and for americans is an american etc etc
curancho 2 years ago
chavez is the greatest.
84abram 2 years ago
SirHappyThe1st 2 years ago
@SirHappyThe1st I like how you put meldrik taylor above Julio Cesar Chavez? lol yea right. Taylor got destroyed both fights against him and taylor was never the same after the first fight whether he had won or lost he still would have kept losing. Chavez deserves to be in the top 5 in my opinion.
chplatinum15 2 years ago
well its really an honor for pacman to be the 7th world title right..?
12ock 2 years ago
Chavez is the Mexican GOAT and top 25 all time
mario6082 2 years ago
JC Superstar fuckin rocks, definitely on my top 10 Fighters!
jorge9705 2 years ago
If you want speed, balance and beauty go to the ballet. Simply not enough emphasis placed on the heavyweight division as everybody merely assumed Ali wins. I accept that Ali could take incredible punishment like his body was made of clay but several fighters could have still whipped him. George Foreman was completely robbed by the quick count and could have got up in the rumble in the jungle and Ali dodged him. Both Tyson and Klitschko would have the edge against him. "Experts" miss the obvious.
jrobe353 2 years ago
U have got 2 be the biggest prick 2 ever breath. Tyson would have got taken apart by Ali boxing brain!!!!/ Klitschko wouldn't have even been a sparing partner 4 him and forman knows he didnt have what it took 2 beat him. But yet u no better than he does.FOOL Tyson had a 4 year peak Ali spanned over 2 decades and beat the best era of heavyweights that there has ever been (THE GOLDEN ERA)
MrSugarray1 2 years ago 3
George Foreman was exhausted and if he would have gotten up the fight would have been stopped.Klitscho is only impressive due to the lack luster state of the Heavy Weight Division.Yes.Iron Mike Tyson vs Ali in their primes.Tyson would have got him.The only way Ali wins is if he runs and I mean run's all night.For that matter he should be disqualified.
ESSENCEOFEACHTHING 2 years ago
Anyone who thinks Tyson could take Ali knows NOTHING about Boxing.
ALi was never knocked out tyson was. A young ali in his prime was the fastest heavyweight in history.
Tyson at his best was not even at Sonny Listons standard and ALi destroyed Liston.
Tyson couldnt even knock out a jumped up cruiserweight named Holyfield.
Holyfield is higher on the list than the 4 rounds then exhausted overrated Tyson.
SirHappyThe1st 2 years ago
@SirHappyThe1st
Tyson peaked early do to his disinterest in the sport.He peaked during the Spinks fight.After that was a gradual decline in skill.
Tyson pre Spinks vs Ali in his prime.Unless Ali runs and I mean all night Baby!! Tyson wins that fight.
ESSENCEOFEACHTHING 2 years ago
EssenceOfFeachthing
Power never leaves a fighter. Tyson could not knock out Holyfield. Imagine a young foreman or Liston against Holyfield.
Tyson always tired after 4 rounds fact. Ali when he was PASSED his prime went 15 rounds with giants.
A young Ali was too fast and technically brilliant to be awed by the overrated Mike Tyson.
SirHappyThe1st 2 years ago
@SirHappyThe1st
You don't know anything about Tyson in his prime.
ESSENCEOFEACHTHING 2 years ago
ESSENCEOFEACHING
I rate Tyson as the scariest fighter to enter a ring rivalling Liston and a Young George Foreman.
I just think Tyson has been exposed too many times to be compared to the likes of the great Muhammad Ali.
In his early years Tyson`s opponents where beaten before they entered the ring and later when challenged Tyson was always found wanting.
SirHappyThe1st 2 years ago
@SirHappyThe1st
ok.But if your opponent is intimidated who's fault is that? Yeah,Tyson's prime was when he faced Spinks in 88.After he began to decline.
ESSENCEOFEACHTHING 2 years ago
@SirHappyThe1st had tyson met holyfield at the time of his prime he would surely won.
DupBror 2 years ago
Also.Ali never ever went to the body.Tyson would only have to worry about head shots and that would suit his peek a boo style perfectly!
ESSENCEOFEACHTHING 2 years ago
no, ali hit on the head so much and he movied around the ring alot.
Ali would once Ali takes tyson to round for then its going to be Ali all the way.
makpak 2 years ago
Once again.Tysons head movement would have negated Ali's exclusive head attack.Tyson would have hunted Ali and landed at a higher percentage at the end of the night.The running and lack of punches connected would not have been impressive to the judges.If in fact the fight went the distants.
ESSENCEOFEACHTHING 2 years ago
@ESSENCEOFEACHTHING shutup.
i love tyson but he wont win. hed be too angry and ali loves that. he beat the monster in Liston and hed beat the moster in Tyson.
dont give this bull shit about tyson hits really hard cus so did frazier, formena, shavers and liston. they all applied great pressure and tyson has nothing over any of them.
tyson applied great pressure and acted real big against shit fighter.
holyfield bought at the best in him and all he did was bit the shit out of him.
makpak 2 years ago
Tyson maybe didn't hit harder than frazier or foreman but he was 10x faster, had better head controll and movement and went for bodyshots way more. So he was better.
DupBror 2 years ago
There are a thousand other thing exept speed that are important. Foreman was much bigger = better reach, stronger in the clinch what takes energie from the opponent, more punching power. Foreman was good in cutting of the ring, had a better chin then Tyson, and more hearth.
Frazier his headmovement was the same level as Tyson. Frazier was slower and didn't have a strong right like Tyson, but he had much more heart and better stanima, he would take Tyson out in the later rounds.
bcibibcibcpCB 2 years ago
In Tyson fights up to about Spinks he had more heart than many, and his head movement was better than any of those, yes maybe Foreman had way better reach but Tyson used his short reach to his own benefit. And he also was great at cutting the ring. Tyson also had great stamina as a younger boxer, it was later in his career where it failed. And about more punching power both of them could knock out anyone they wanted.
DupBror 2 years ago
In my eyes, you only see if a man has heart when things go bad for him. When he's rock bodem and there is no more hope, keep fighting till the end, that's heart. Yes, Tyson trained like an animal and gived it all he had when things were going good for him. Name me one fight were he was behinde and came back? Foreman was WAY behinde against Moorer, Lyle knocked him down, ...
About Tyson his short arms being an advantadge against Foreman: just look what happend to Frazier.
bcibibcibcpCB 2 years ago
You can also see if a man has heart if he fights his way up and gives all in my opinion, sets a goal and accomplishes it. That was what Tyson did. And I still think that Tyson would have done better against Foreman than Frazier did so who knows what the outcome of that fight would be. And I have never seen an undefeated heavyweight champion such as Spinks look so afraid as he did when he was about to fight Tyson.
DupBror 2 years ago
I know it from my personal life, when things go your way, it's easy to be motivated. When things go bad, that's when you can see who has heart and who hasn't.
Tyson was a swarmer, like Frazier. Just like Frazier Tyson was vulnerable to the uppercut. Maybe he would do better then Frazier, maybe he would last 6 rounds, who nows. But he wouldn't make it for 12 rounds.
bcibibcibcpCB 2 years ago
I guess the meaning of "having heart" might be a little different for Swedish people, or just me :). Well that might be true but then again if Foreman got hit hard many times in the early rounds he might have gained more respect for Tyson and probably would have been knocked out either early or late in the fight.
DupBror 2 years ago
Comon, are you gonna say Tyson had heart like Foreman? The man got stuck on drugs, bit a guys ear of if he couldn't win, stopped his last fight on the stool, never came back when he was behinde.
Tyson against Foreman, he never won against a fighter of that caliber. If you realy think that he could bully him like he did Spinks then you have a hell of lot to learn about him. George fought almost 70 fights, Tommy Morisson ran away from Foreman and foreman was in his 40's then!
bcibibcibcpCB 2 years ago
I have to agree. Tyson was tailor made for Foreman. Cus D'Amato would tell Tyson he could NEVER beat Foreman. Tyson even admitted he was afraid of fighting Foreman because "he's a fucking animal."
And that is a good point: Tyson never got up off the deck to win.
mongoose704 2 years ago
no he wasnt.
when those fihters were put to the test they passed.
foreman demolished frazier yest fraxier kept comming back.
dougles hit tyson and the mother fucker never got up.
makpak 2 years ago
That doesn't at all mean that Frazier is better, maybe Tyson got hitten harder, who knows?
DupBror 2 years ago
And it doesn't make him a motherfucker, and if you want to discuss things that way you're not my kind of person :)
DupBror 2 years ago
hahahah records dont mean shit......
hahaahah
wow....kill ur self
818lashr 2 years ago
98 and 2!!!CHAVEZ!!!
i want somebody to show me a better record.
818lashr 2 years ago 11
I don't know if you can top Chavez!
PapaMagnum 2 years ago