Kenneth Clark: 'A Stick in the Mud...'

[overfell]

An amazing and inspirational series - also very amusing at points. This ending is simply stunning - moving and profound. Fantastic.

[ammypam]

Right-wing reactionary who produced a truly awful son.

[logica10]

"Human sympathy is more valuable than ideology" is an impressive idea that I can confirm day after day in my daily work. This is the incredible value of this kind of programme: it makes you think and rethink, to rephrase your assumed truths. A fresh standpoint, no matter this was filmed 4 decades ago. Thanks for sharing.

[TheSealOfTheRose]

Inspiring gentleman 

[Wormwoods1066]

Sheep! Thanks Stick in the Mud.

[CONSVLTVS]

For me, this was the best of a handful of early television triumphs. Since that time, attention spans have shortened, vocabularies have shrunk, and television has become what Attenborough and the BBC were trying to show it need not be. We may be materially richer now, with flashy gadgets and distractions.  We are palpably less refined, and Western Civilization is passing through a phase transition point of culture and politics. Like Clark, I am hardly optimistic.

[Snurremegrundt]

I wonder what dominate our modern society the most these days; materialism or escapism? The good thing about escapism like movies, videogames and comics and so on, is that it is possible to sneak in messages that actually matters. But to improve the world, we need more than just an audience who are nodding their heads

[Imonlysleeping9]

People shouldn't be so quick in setting John Berger against Kenneth Clark. Sure, they had ideological differences, but both recognized the problem of "heroic materialism" and how it stands between us and a society of greater depth and self-understanding.

[VictrolaJazz]

By virtue of being born in 1903, he got to live through London in the Roaring 20's--probably the most wonderful treat in history--short skirts, bobbed hair, jazz, the Charleston, 23 Skdoo, Josephine Baker, dance orchestras, Cecil Beaton, Stephan Tennant, Edith, Sachaveral and Osbert Sitwell, the Bright Young Things, Elinor Wylie, Noel Coward, Gertrude Lawrence--was there ever a more wonderful assemblage of people and things with style?

[Xenostrobe]

for such an intellect nothing would be uncertain and the future just like the past would be present before its eyes Laplace.

But the closest well get to properly assessing the merits of Civilization is LCA, (so mundane) discussed on youtube by Bill Moyers and Daniel Goleman

[Xenostrobe]

The best essay I've read is How And How Not To Love Mankind by Theodore Dalrymple (google) he is perhaps a little heavy on the ad hominem but well worth reading.

[furtceli]

Lord Clarke is certainly admirable. His emphasis on caring for the poor and needy would most definitely make him a liberal, and he most certainly would have encouraged government funding for the arts, something today's conservatives would never be on board for.

[FrankinHolland]

I so wish I could have met this man.

[Slegarthoth]

Disgusting! He's the very antithesis of a PC left winger.

[PuissantAlgernon]

What's his political alignment got to do with it? No, don't answer, I don't want to get into another futile Youtube argument. Suffice to say, nothing he says in this video conflicts with left-wing politics.

[Slegarthoth]

Oh yes it does.

YouTube:

"The History of Political Correctness pt 1"

[PuissantAlgernon]

I do a lot of panto, I'm used to this.

Oh no it doesn't!

[Slegarthoth]

*Order is better than chaos*

*Creation better than destruction*

Conservatives prefer order. The left "progress us" by deconstructing society.

*Gentleness to violence.*

Violent left wing protests.

*Forgiveness to vendetta.*

Left wing harassment of enemy political groups.

*Knowledge is preferable to ignorance.*

PC is used to suppress truths that would "offend minorities"

[Slegarthoth]

*Human sympathy is more valuable than ideology*

The left are famous for their blind adherence to ideology. Who needs a brain when you have a manual to tell you what to say.

*Men haven't changed much in 2000 years.*

*Learn from history.*

A-political?

[Slegarthoth]

*Courtesy*

A conservative value.

Every conservative knows, when you disagree with a left winger, it always leads to screaming and tears by the left winger.

Violent left wing protests,

*Part of nature*

Left wing and some conservatives.

*God given genius of certain individuals*

Elitism! Shocking! All people are equal, aren't they comrade?

[Slegarthoth]

And finally this:

"His son Alan Kenneth Mackenzie Clark (1928-) was a controversial military historian and diarist, Conservative MP 1974-93 and a junior minister."

[PuissantAlgernon]

Well done for throwing in my general direction a long stream of unsubtantiated assertions that what you see as virtues are inherently conservative, followed by an irrelevant fact.

Courtesy has nothing to do with politics.

Violence likewise.

Ideology v sympathy - theoretically the socialist ideology is *based* on sympathy for the individual.

Forgiveness to vendetta - who is it who wants to bring back hanging? Oh yes, the right.

Knowledge - who advocates state education? Oh, the left.

[Slegarthoth]

>Forgiveness to vendetta - who is it who wants to bring back hanging? Oh yes, the right.

When you lot let pedophiles and serial killers into your homes, then I'll take you seriously.

>Knowledge - who advocates state education? Oh, the left.

But the middle class left, always send their children to private. Why is that? :)

[PuissantAlgernon]

- Whether or not you agree with the death penalty campaigning against it is undeniably motivated by the desire to forgive (even if you think that desire misguided).

- So every last middle-class left winger sends their children to private school? I'm one myself, and I went to state school. A large number of my friends, likewise. In fact, more of the right wingers I know came from private than from state. Besides, left wingers still support state education even if not all of them use it.

[FrankinHolland]

He defends free markets and freedom in general. I doubt he would be voting Labour if he were still alive.

[PuissantAlgernon]

Labour isn't a left-wing party any more.

[rbresca]

This is a fantastic series, at first I preferred The Ascent of Man but after a few viewings I have come to appreciate this one just as much. I highly recommend viewing both series. Thanks for posting this!

[alisonja]

What a gentleman... and what a superior articulator of what has happened and what will. Thanks for posting this.

[logica10]

Indeed.

[lengelwolf]

Such a superb series, more powerful even than Bronowski and all the imitators (and that's saying a lot).

[armbar]

I regret to say that saw the last of the series last night on BBC 4 and I wish I had seen it all. It was a treat to see a program on Saturday night that required you to consider ideas. If they showed this on BBC 1 on any day of the week, there would be riots. If its not based on humiliation of the general public or celebrity, it is of no interest........

[EnglishmaninPoland]

Whatever country you live in you can probably rent it from the British Council library in your nearest city, and after the initial membership fee (very small) you pay nothing. Even the fines are tiny.

[Melengell]

I love this series and I am so glad that it is finally available on dvd. I've waited for that to happen a long time.

[quangojones]

So Clark's saying: We good people have many strong beliefs, but lack the *will* to act; therefore, wickedness (sadly) reigns.

[Shalashaska8636]

briliant show

love the comment below about video games from neothomist1275 -(video games)-Such things damage concentration and patience'...this guy obviously has never played video games-vast video games where puzzles and logic are applied to problem solving such as in RPG's like FInal Fantasy-over 90 hours of gameplay.After al thats all that video games r huge problem solving engines.

Video games are art-they just suffer from intellectual snobbery because they are a relative new art form

[kasranov]

Oh, I agree. But some games are more groundbreaking than others. Just as some films and documentaries are more groundbreaking than others...

[EyeLean5280]

Have you played Braid yet?

[parsec9]

Prophetic, to say the least. If only a tenth of the world were to listen...

[Alessandro1985]

I love this series. If you can't stay awake listening to clarky, then yes you probably are intellectually vacant. Read some more books and you will hopefully start enjoying him

[bassdemon16]

I was bought the box set of DVD's of this series for christmas, and i was looking forward to watching it for so long...

But i find it hard to stay awake listening to this man. This makes me feel intellectually vacant because everyone else is raving about how amazing this account is... Sorry, i just find it boring and lacking in direction.

I really wanted to enjoy it, but it was a more of a chore, but perhaps its just one of those things that you have to watch a few times to fully comprehend.

[neothomist1275]

bassdemon16,

--Get the book version of "Civilisation". My copy was obtained on eBay for 25 cents (US).

-- Ease up on the video games. Such things damage concentration and patience.

[bassdemon16]

I am half way through the series now, and i still cant really get to grips with it.

I think the reason i am not enjoying this series is because i like programs with a sense of direction, structure and clarity. I just find that Lord Clark sometimes goes off on a tangent and it frustrates me.

But i can understand now why it may appeal to viewers who are well versed in their history.

[kasranov]

Keep going. The show is structured chronologically... one century after the next.

If you want a more "fun" take on the same subject matter and the same time period, I wholeheartedly advise you to check out James Burke's "The Day the Universe Changed".

Once you've sat through Burke's second masterpiece, return to "Civilisation"... many of the people and places will suddenly seem like old friends!

[musicalgibbon]

@bassdemon16

I felt like this too, initially. I can't recommend sticking with it highly enough, though. It may be difficult to get the point, the first time of watching, but the understanding comes with repeat viewings. There are still things I learn re-watching this for what must be the hundredth time.

[ozzymarco]

I think you should keep in mind two things when watching this series - 1) It was made in 1969, long before the 'MTV' age of television (quick editing, shots no longer than 5 seconds, as little narration as possible) and 2) This was the first documentary series of its kind ever made. The world had never seen anything like this before, and it was a revelation in its day.

I watched this series at art college in the 1980's; it was the centrepiece of our art history courses, and I loved it.

[ADVOCTVS]

This series struck me as the finest account of the best in humanistic values and western culture ever to appear on television. Thank you for posting it.

[neothomist1275]

ADVOCTVS,

Humanistic values? "The trouble is there is still no center." says Clarke, knowing full well that our lost center was never humanity.

[kasranov]

Forming this 'new center', perhaps at great cost, is the unenviable task ahead of us, Clark is saying...

[sunnygirl213]

What are your thoughts on Giambattista Vico's notion that, contrary to the contract theorists, civilizational substance is finite? Or, to put it another way, only at a civilization's beginning can a foundation be laid. If this be so, then that "great cost" and "unenviable task" would be the reversion to barbarism and the laying of a new foundation respectively.

[kasranov]

What, pray tell, is "civilizational substance"?

Does it have an entry in the periodic table? :-P

[yokohamagirl]

Great expectations...