Ireland Approves Lisbon Treaty: Margot Wallstrom Reacts

[padraigomairtin]

@itsayellowfig I made these comments a year ago. Sadly in the meantime Ireland has lost its sovereignty not because of corrupt EU officials or Lisbon but because of homemade recklessness in the banking sector and failure by Fianna Fail, the party in power at the time, to regulate it properly. If we had stronger Eurozone regulation, Ireland and Europe might not be in the current mess they finds itself. It seems that the Lisbon Treaty was far too little, way too late.

[padraigomairtin]

If you look at the commentators here you'll see many are just plain xenophobic. The EU did not ignore the first vote and tried to address the concerns of the Irish people. The Irish People exercised their democratic right to change their mind on the Lisbon Treay. We are now back where we belong at the heart of Europe with our fellow Europeans

[jasonmhc]

i cant fucking believe that after all the bloodshed over the years in ireland for rights and now youve all just given the powers of decision over your country to europe F>F>S

[Lisbon3]

research "Irish Referendum Count at Cork City Hall"

[TheJamesfreedom]

dont be fooled u will not control us europe ireland will surprise

[bluewaterfire]

HELP!!! We in Ireland were told of dire financial consequences that would be inflicted if we did not accept this treaty. This terror swung  enough of the population to the YES side. Where is the democracy in that? IT IS A DANGEROUS THING WHEN DEMOCRACY FAILS THE PEOPLE..........

[EUbrainwashing]

Is it not kind of mad that whilst the economy in Ireland is already radically fizzling out and doing so under the supposed comfort of EU membership, the people think the good times will roll again just like it did in the honeymoon days.

How wrong they are. The EU money shovels already have diverted their attention to Eastern Europe, that is in great part why Ireland's economy has become so flaccid, & the shovels won't return just because of this vote of capitulation. Hard times a coming folks.

[EUbrainwashing]

She says " after the first vote" the first vote on jolly flipping what? Oh she means the first vote on the entirely unrelated European Constitution which this Lisbon Treaty is not a complete and utter replacement of (except for the anthem, flag and intelligible format). She means the document to which France, Holland and Ireland voted NO to thrice. The document to which Britain was promised a referendum but then denied because we are told this Lisbon Treaty is not the same as the Constitution.

[urfadder]

yyeeeessss...

GO FUCK YOURSELVES ANTI EU LUNATICS!

[MarquisdeBarrabas]

lol I know how you feel.

[EUbrainwashing]

So urfadder; this your comment portrays the intellect of those who would vote YES - now at last it begins to become clear.

[awb121]

I hate you Margot Vallström! You are a disgrace to your country (Sweden) and you are a disgrace to your socialist legacy!

[vidaregaaende]

WTF? WTF? It's just dirty political tricks! Real people are powerless....

[troglodyte3344]

Im willing to bet my house that noone on this page has even read the lisbon treaty, but are first to comment on it.

[EUbrainwashing]

It is imposable to read and understand without having all the other related treaties which the Lisbon Treaty amends also available so to be able to see the clauses that are amended and the contexts in which they were made. But despite this I have read it so please send keys to my new house at earliest opportunity.

:-)

[troglodyte3344]

Its not really sufficient to afford an opinion as to whether its good or bad as a whole then.

Oh, its the first cardboard box on the left under tower bridge.

[EUbrainwashing]

If you read the Lisbon Treaty correctly, making all the 3,000+ cross-references to other treaties necessary to allow some kind of meaningfulness, by the time you got to understand the end I guess you would have lost the thread of what it said at the start.

Open Europe has published a side by side comparative text of the Lisbon Treaty and the EU Constitution, and has released an updated guide to what it means.

This is in truth that which I read; so the pied-à-terre rightly remain yours.

[Kida000]

this is why we pay politicans diplomats and lawyers. All treaties are not meant for you're average joe to curl up on the sofa and thumb through, or to read by lamp before you go asleep; It's a complex document that requires you to have read and understood other complex documents.

[EUbrainwashing]

Ireland should have had a proper Constitution (that succinctly expressed the facts & would be a clear point of reference for the future) for the people to vote on rather that rely on politicians, diplomats and lawyers.

But then the constitution that said the same as this complicated amending treaty was rejected by both Holland and France and hence was a dead parrot.

Now Eire has been sold the same dead parrot again, this time as a bag of fish&chips.

But its still a dead parrot.; Hello Polly!

[Kida000]

I agree somewhat.

The EU (as it is) is a complete mess. It needs to re-define and explain what it stands for and which path it intends to go down. A constitution would almost certainly rectify this problem-- after a extended period of public debate and a rough draft being drawn up each member state should be asked if they wish to stay the course or drop off into the EFTA. at least then, as you say the debate is alot more... civillian.

Though this Treaty does

[Kida000]

^^continued

Though this treaty does have some elements of the old constitution it is completely flase to allege that it is completely repackaged. Streamlining of the EU decision making and the creation of these rather flimsy posts allows Europe to work in a more coherent and effective fashion than before-- it was a neccessity, treaty, constitution or whatever these reforms had to be passed for europe to act efficently with 27 memberstates there is no getting around that.

[EUbrainwashing]

The fact is that the EU is the kind of institution that thinks the people so darn stupid or fickle they cannot understand or decide on their nation's futures. So to cure this it hides the truth to fix and fudges its future. As it happens I would not be opposed to a true 'federation' brought about with the fully informed consent of each nation. But that idealistic dream Navana is not where we are heading. This corrupt and undemocratic process will lead only to corrupt and undemocratic state.

[Kida000]

well surely the elections (both national and European) must count for something? plus with lisbon all but ratified you can flood Barroso's desk with petitions till he gets the message.

As i said this is probably the best time to set up a road map in the form of a basic constitution, right now it's clear we're slowly moving towards a federation , the problem is Europe is crawling painfully slowly through the dark and for most people it is that part that is intollerable.

[EUbrainwashing]

Elections count for very little in the EU. The members of the European Commission and the Council of Ministers are not elected but are predominately responsible for instigating and passing law. The European Parliament to which the people do elect their national representatives is little more than a talking-shop.

Petitions are not a constitutional tool for a free and democratic society - they are a symptom of its failure.

[Kida000]

The CoM IS elected, we elected miliband and come next election most likely Hauge along with all the other ministers who will take up their seats when their department is hailed to Brussels. thats not to say that it shouldn't be gotten rid of and it's powers given to the MEP's

A elected bureaucracy is impractical, they propose law the mep's and CoM debate the merits to it and it gets put to vote, not too dissimlar to how our own legislative prosedure works

[EUbrainwashing]

The members of the Council of Ministers are not elected to the council, they are co-opted ministers from member nation's governments. As in our particular government we have unelected cabinet ministers and one who is even also First Secretary of State & Lord President of the Council along with a PM who has made no attempt to gain a plebiscite, I find this notion of any kind of democratic process taking place - err - fragile.

[Kida000]

if you consider taking a seat at the CoM as part of the job descripton then yes they are elected.

Now if you dislike how you choose those people then thats something to take up with your national government.

[EUbrainwashing]

See: vv vv vv eumatters . ie / How-the-EU-Works / How-EU-laws-are-made

[EUbrainwashing]

We are not moving towards any true kind of federation - that is just one deeper lay of the lies we are lead to believe to such-in the support of the idealistic and gullible. This is set to become a soviet-fascist dictatorship with the control mechanisms of a despotic totalitarian regime.

[Kida000]

you see this is why a basic constitution should be debated right now. It would set out the clear ideolistic goal and destination while allowing the people and the politicans of europe to make a informed decision about wheather they want to embark upon it or not. those memberstate that don't wish to take part can drop out into the EFTA or cut ties completely.

[EUbrainwashing]

It 'should' happen, a real Constitution drawn-up in comprehensible prose, correctly debated and then put to every member state's public referendum. But this did not happen when the opportunity was clearly there and will not yet still simply because of the fear the people will point-black reject it with a resounding NO. The reasons for fearing such a no are based on the assumption of humanity's innate parochialism as indeed tends to be found so. Instead the people must be duped.

[gschjetne]

You eurosceptics never seem to be able to decide.

First you talk about national sovereignty, and then you want to force every member country to hold a referendum and override their own parliaments? Would it be fair to the Swedes to force them to hold a legally binding referendum, which is against Swedish law?

[Kida000]

From what i heard last time there was a no from the Dutch and the French which killed it there and then, hardly scared when you consider every country upto then said yes. Why should those 2 countries and no doubt britain afterwards hold up the setting of a basic identity and a closer Europe? come the next attempt it should be made clear that those who vote No will be negotiated into the EFTA with the possiblity of joining the Union at a later date, if they so wish.

[EUbrainwashing]

How many of the 'every country' other than France and Holland that you suggest said 'yes' to the European Constitution' did so via a public referendum? As I am a helpful chap I will give you the answers. Spain and Luxembourg held referendums and voted in favour.  Otherwise referendums were planned in Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Ireland, Poland, Portugal and the UK but not held because the Constitution itself required all nations to vote YES for ratification so the process was abandoned.

[Kida000]

as i said, everyone UPTO that point had said yes.

[EUbrainwashing]

Most nations were not asked, their government's, right or wrong, ratified without calling a referendum to confirm their stance was the will of their people. Of the nations who did intend to allow their people a vote two voted yes then the next two voted no following which the whole darn process was stopped to prevent even more 'no' voting nations.

A 50/50 split & the EU were not going to start with countries they feared could vote no were they?

You may Kida yourself but you will not kid me.

[hcwcars1]

good bye ireland r i p

[troglodyte3344]

why where did it go ? people always resist change, even if its good for them.

[SolanoIRL09]

We haven't gone anywhere.

[boots920]

"We shall have World Government, whether or not we like it.

The only question is whether World Government will be achieved

by conquest or consent."

Paul Warburg

[gschjetne]

Why do people keep saying that Barroso is Jewish?

[Quentin0000000000]

with the Lisbon treaty power is givin to the European parliament

[cybaersam]

a sad day in deed... never thought it would come to this...

[kooslap]

Very sad indeed....another example of how the elite world bankers and the politicians they control are further uniting the people through fear in order to create their New World Order one world government. Canada, The U.S and Mexico are also being united with the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP)..the elite are quietly herding all countries into larger states that will soon be unified into 1 controlled state by the United Nations. Please look at my channel for more info.

[gschjetne]

The first attemt at providing 'clear factual information' was shot down by the French and Dutch referenda. It's obvious that the referendum thumpers want the treaties to be as complicated and scary as possible to the layperson. It's all part of the anti-European disinformation campaign.

I'm glad the treaty finally passed, but let's call the next one a constitution with laws and skip the all the diplomat speak.

[lazarush1980]

it WAS initially called a Constitution but after the French & Dutch rejection the EU renamed it a Treaty:)

[gschjetne]

That's what I'm talking about. It was supposed to be called a constitution with laws, not a treaty with directives. I'm starting to think it was deliberately changed to make the EU seem frightening and unfamiliar. The changes were driven through by eurosceptics, and it's part of their agenda to keep people as ignorant and disinterested as possible. If people don't understand what they are voting for, turnout will be low and the legitimacy of the union will be challenged.

[EUbrainwashing]

Interesting theory gschjetne but utter hogwash just the same. It is for the proponents of EU to clearly express and define the merits of the 'ever deeper union'. They do not because they are so bound-up with the strategy of disinformation and lies they forget what the hell the actual aim and advantages really are.

[LightsEShadows]

yeah with treath and bribes EU has his right answer after ignoring the wrong ones of million if european peoples.

[EUbrainwashing]

It is threats and bribes but still subtler also too. For just one example instance; Yes is positive No is negative in meaning. So if the question had conversely been 'Do you want to reject the Lisbon Treaty'? the subliminal tendency for people to take positive action would have increased the numbers rejecting the treaty. But since it is the EU who deal the cards and have looked at them first, opponents get a dud hand every time to play with only the best they can.