Why Philippa Gregory Sucks: A Rant (Part 1 of 2)

[TheLadyPlantagenet]

Leave Phillipa alone!

[uno4vids]

I just finished watching part 2 and you hit so many of my issues. Bravo! Not that I'm defending Gregory, but she is writing fiction. Although their readership probably doesn't compete with Gregory, I have more of a problem with Hicks and Weir when it comes to Richard III--my specific interest. (I can't comment on Tudor specifics as I don't know that much about their dynasty.) Maybe that's where Gregory gets her "facts?"

I love Penman as a writer and a person. She's incredible.

[AndurilForTheDunedan]

@uno4vids Thanks! It's always nice to know I'm making sense to someone.

I'll give someone a pass on minor historical details as long as I can see they've made an effort to get the big things right. I'm fine with Penman giving a notorious lady's man a bastard child; her mighty efforts are their own justification. But Gregory doesn't even try. When the big stuff's wrong, everything else is questionable.

Hooray for Richard III! I'd love to read more about him - anything you'd recommend?

[uno4vids]

@AndurilForTheDunedan I agree about Gregory. You're not the only one to rail against her "history" either. I sent you a short message about Richard III reading, but don't know if you've seen it yet.

[uno4vids]

Thank you. I can't fathom why PG is so popular. Above all, I find her writing boooooring.

[AndurilForTheDunedan]

@uno4vids Join the club. We are not alone. :) I think the boring thing could be traced back to the amount of repetition in her prose. "We read this already. Five pages ago. Why are you telling us again?"

[TheLadyPlantagenet]

@1amayes

[1amayes]

Your not English ! Your not an Award winning writer! You know nothing about our Historical fiction! You are a Tit! In my opinion!



[AndurilForTheDunedan]

@1amayes Indeed, I am neither English nor an award-winning writer. Nor does my opinion have to agree with yours. Hence the whole business of individual thought, which is most useful when it leads to discussion rather than mudslinging.

Thank you, by the way, for the funniest angry comment I've yet received. Whatever our differences of opinion, at least we both understand incoherent rage.

[TheLadyPlantagenet]

@BlaireCamille yeah

[TheLadyPlantagenet]

@BlairCammille Well done! It is fiction!

[BlairCamille]

@TheLadyPlantagenet thanks? 

[BlairCamille]

you remind me a lot of beatrices mother.

[AndurilForTheDunedan]

@BlairCamille Because I don't generally condone incest, whining, and selfishness? I take that as a compliment!

[BlairCamille]

@AndurilForTheDunedan no specific reason, you just do.

[ByTheLetterCee]

that's why it's called FICTION.... hello

[AndurilForTheDunedan]

@ByTheLetterCee Yup. It's fiction. Based on history. Which I generally think requires the writer to pay at least semi-serious attention to what actually happened. My problem with her writing stems mostly from her passing off speculation and theorizing as documentable history. There's no need to spice up the Tudors - the truth is fascinating all on its own.

[maddalff]

There isn't that much sex in the books I have read by her :/

[AndurilForTheDunedan]

@maddalff That's awesome. Seriously, that's fantastic. (Gratuitous sex scenes are a big pet peeve of mine - I think too many of them diminish the effect of a well-placed one.) But just... steer clear of Wideacre, then. You can't get away from the panting and thrusting and desire-darkened eyes. (To be fair, the 2nd Wideacre book was sparing in its sex scenes, to great effect. But then it had graphic incest for the whole second half, which was off-putting in an entirely different way.)

[maddalff]

@AndurilForTheDunedan I definitly agree, incest is never good haha

[TheLadyPlantagenet]

@ Andurilfordunden Just SHUT UP!

[TheLadyPlantagenet]

@ sssss5507 another good person

[sssss5507]

I am not historian, and I am not going to be... I like "the white queen" because it is good book, written by good writer, everyone can have his own opinion,but i think no one can be certain for one hundred percent that he is right according historical truth, because the history we know is not hundred percent truth... it could not be, it was written by people :) and people are different...

[AndurilForTheDunedan]

sssss5507 You're completely right that "true" history is incredibly hard to know, since we get history from biased people. That's one of the things I love about history - the shades of gray, the different opinions, the three-dimensionality of humans. I happen to think Gregory simplifies those shades of gray in a way that does no justice to human complexity. But that's me. :)

[TheLadyPlantagenet]

@ - gdava I love You!!! That makes the 2 of us!

[gdava]

wow, you need to chill. you're kind of creepy... i couldn't keep watching.

[AndurilForTheDunedan]

@gdava Aww. I'm sorry that improvised heartfelt rage freaks you out. Tragically for you, mildly sarcastic insults only inspire me to more of the same.

[TheLadyPlantagenet]

And Wideacre is nothing like withering heights!!!

[TheLadyPlantagenet]

@ - Andurilfordunden; She makes me feel like I'm there I understand the characters and their philosophy, the way they react is viable and just, they are powerful strong an passionate and courageous with a deep knowledge of their country and kingdom. The story line is touching and the way she draws a story is at the top levels... Her writing is detached of modernism and creates an impression that that is what they actually said and did, they were incredibly compassionate to other people yet so h

[AndurilForTheDunedan]

@TheLadyPlantagenet Obviously, the most important thing is that you have a writer whose work moves you. There's nothing better than that. And on that level, what I think of her is irrelevant; her work moves you, end of story. I would (and did) say that she's certainly not the only writer who can conjure an era or craft a vivid characterization, and I hope you find other writers whose work you enjoy as much; having more favorites is always a good thing. And thanks for talking with me.

[TheLadyPlantagenet]

... and The White Queen is a very good book too and Elizabeth Woodville despite being an unpopular queen had some allies too and was a very clever and skilled Lady and that's the real reason why she was acused as a witch, because of being the first commoner since the Norman Conquest to marry the king... The melusina story is a very old half forgotten story soooo its a very respected one too... Phillip took a good decision in bringing it in... So CHILL OUT AND ADMIT IT!!! SHE'S GOOD!!!

[TheLadyPlantagenet]

First, So to get things straight; Phillipa Gregory is a very good writer and if you hate her or not you shouldnt ever post such bullshit on youtube, sheesh you're like the sarah Rooney girl, you should chill out and go on a vacation, a loooooooooooong one... And you do not need to brag about translating shakespearian dialogue because I did it last year when I was 11, and FYI Wideacre is nearly a classic because it's about 30 years old and still ever so popular!

[AndurilForTheDunedan]

@TheLadyPlantagenet I'm certainly in the minority as regards Gregory's talent; her multiple bestsellers prove that. Just because I don't think she warrants such praise doesn't mean you can't enjoy her books. You could even say *what* you enjoy about them, rather than spewing vitriol; discussion is always more fun than name-calling, anyway.

Wideacre is nearly a classic. Wuthering Heights *is* a classic, and simply better, as the original often is.

[ivaflimkien]

bedrooms should have a crucifix in them...

[666HPS]

It's about time that there was a backlash against Philppa Gregory. Her dreadful writing, her one dimensional characters, and predictable plots really are dreadful. Thats' before I even get started on the "history". Its' even worse than the writing.

Only point a disagree on, is Catherine of Aragon sleeping with Prince Arthur. It could have happenned, and I actually quite liked the fact that PG had CoA and Arthur sleeping together. Although, I admit too, that I have not read her Tudor novels.

[AndurilForTheDunedan]

@666HPS I couldn't agree more. (Obviously.) It really is the lack of dimension to her characters that gets me. I have been known to excuse crappy history if you give me interesting characters, but unless the people in the book are fun to be with, there's no reason to hang around.

Re: CoA/Arthur, it is possible, but I tend to think Catherine just wouldn't have lied about something that Important. She actually valued integrity; I can't see her pulling off that big a lie. Could be just me. ;)