I think another thing to look at is parenting as well. As a kid my parents forced me to try and do many things from playing instruments and playing sports. When parents try to force talents and passions on kids that they wish they had, it doesnt exactly work, and in fact i believe most kids find it to be a chore, i know i did. My mom nagging me to play guitar and practice, forcing me to sports camps. You have to try and make these creative pathways seem something exciting and not a chore
@crocopie I think he agrees that you need the knowledge and proof that you understand something if you work in, say, medicine. He was talking about giving all disciplines of knowledge the same level of importance and reforming the system to the individual's needs, since everyone can't learn the same way with the same results. So of course you would have credentials and you would learn on the subject, but, to quote, "not in a linear, but in an organic way". That's how I understood it.
I'm glad he recognizes education's development in Western countries as being developed to suit economic aims (mindless, soulless unchecked capitalism). He did miss the significance of education being used to teach the development of critical thought. It's fundamental to our development as a species, if we really want to develop.
@paulthecoolest While there are many innovative events occuring even as I type this, there are still many students that do not find their talent or passion ever in life. There are so many scientific and mathematical advances, but not everyone is meant to be a scientist or mathematician, and those are the students that end up hating their jobs, and/or not succeeding in the world. Spend an equal amount of time on each subject, including the arts, and stop prioritizing just a few.
I'd lik to see Mr. Robinson built a school..He seems like all talk ..If our education was so flawed den hw is it dat der r so mny innovations and technology beinjg developed and that too at a rate far beyond anything we hav seen in the past. Dont gt me wrong though wat he says does make sme sense ..Its just that he doesnt go on to tell us HOW we can built such a system of education..hw we can make education "tailor made" and meet the needs for each individual. & I havent seen sch scools either
I want to write an argumentative speech on this but i don't know how to not steal the whole thing, are there any places i can look that treat this subject?!
@EndureFocusEngageDie Yes, that other side of the brain he talks about often. What is your take on the subject, how did education affect you? Do you agree or disagree with Ken Robinson? Use his proposal as your thesis statement, argue with your experience.
@NIGGUHNIGGUH123 Well i agree with him all the way except for the climate crisis, how education affect me? yes ok, thank you, i will talk about it but i don't know if that's a key point, what i meant by the first question is if there is anyone else that is talking about this subject, not if he is talking about something else.
@EndureFocusEngageDie Look up alternative education on wikipedia, and part from there. There are people who home school their children. There are schools that focus themselves on other aspects of "education". A great example is DASH institute, google that as well. Hope this helps
@EndureFocusEngageDie Industrial Design teaches to simplify current designs and come up with new ideas and innovative ways to approach daily life. I highly recommend watching the documentary Objectified, if you like Industrial Design
im 20 in college and im just so miserable.. Supposed to review for my quiz but i spent the night watching all Sir Ken's videos. I was crying 80% of the whole time watching this because it just resonates what i think.. I wish i can change the education system NOW.. I dont even like what I'm taking up in college- its hard, boring, too scientific, requires a lot of useless memorization-- and all just to get a stupid high paying job. But what's a good job going to do when you feel shit? :(
@realpassionlife You are willing to do anything for cash? What r u, a prostitute? Let go of those botherment, and be free. God will reward your honesty with greater rewards.
I feel broken after this speech about education. Our generation is hopeless - I dan't see a fix for myself, but I believe we can save the generations to come by changing the whole system of education. This guy is just brilliant and so inspiring :3
You heard people say- "it will never be found", "it ain't true", "it just can't be".
I'm here to tell you these People are WRONG- I found it. Using Google Earth -
I found God's Watermarks of the REAL Garden of Eden. Look at my Channel and see the Video I made of it. I didn't point all of it out either- there are many things still hid for you to find. Come see.
im in grade 10 and im just wondering, is it really important to go to school.. i just want to no whats the right thing to do. im not saying totally forget about education. and does money really matter..
@amanprasad100 Unfortunately, we do live in a system. Finishing high school would be a good idea. Then if youre an absolute genius at music/art/dance/inventing/cooking/writing, I say go for it, but its a competitive world so Id try to be as well rounded as posible, learn languages, take some non-uni preparation etc. You do need to eat, and people dont seem to be having less children, but ultimately try to follow your dream.
@amanprasad100 School is important. It's important that you get educated, but for yourself. Do not let the system tell you what you can or cannot do. Embrace your dreams because the only limits that exist are the ones we set upon ourselves.
@amanprasad100 Basic understanding of words and numbers is going to help you whether it's an interview for a musical or a CEO position. When Ken talks about intelligence he is addressing the importance of all the different types of intelectual capacity. So use what you truly enjoy doing as a tool to learn everything els.
Hate math? Count and calculate how many measures there are in all the modern pop songs. When does the bridge come or the 1st & 2nd verse. Why does it sound right that way?
@amanprasad100 Finish high school first, and if you find something you love doing and can't think of doing anything else for the rest of your life, find the right school for it.
But that's if you're real lucky. Go to a community college and get your prerequisites done first, because that's when you can find yourself again. Some unfortunate people end up wasting years and money, only to realize that they aren't where they want to be because they wanted to be on the fast track to success.
@amanprasad100 It is the appeal of the quick wealth and success that ropes in so many people and ends up making things brutally competitive. I'm not saying that you won't meet resistance (you will), but if you really, truly want something, believe in yourself and don't ever give up.
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
Questions for Ken Robinson: Is it too late for those young few college students who are truly not destined for school? And where should we start? Everyone talks about the same path, that college will benefit you greatly in life. For me college has made become isolated and I miss learning from other PEOPLE, not books.
@joshybumboshy College has other people in addition to books. Change your focus and follow the course that works for you, you don't need to wait for someone else to do it. If you're going to college for an education, and you get your education from the people rather than the books, what difference does it make? If you're going for the piece of paper at the end, on the other hand, and you can't get that from the people, stop wasting money on it and do what works for you. Carve out your own path.
I believe its never too late as long as what your doing is something you love.
Like Ken Robinson said if your doing something you love and that thing is in tune with your soul then one hour will feel like 5 minutes, but if your aren't doing something you love then that 5 minutes can turn out to be one hour. So it's never too late...because even if you find what you love at a ripe old age of 60, the times you spend at that age doing the things you love will still be worth it.
I've lived every bit of what this video says, I went through school, I went in smart (fluent in English at the age of 5, this being my Second language) and school spit me out: barely capable of going through collage, with little social skills, Scared stiff, criticizing myself, wondering "why don't I fit?" and "how can i be like everyone else?", thinking of myself as mediocre, average, and after 12 years of education not having a dam clue who I really am. He described it all perfectly.
I dare to say that my collage is one of the few in the entire world that actually uses this system or whatever you might call it, and implements it in our education system.
During the animated short, keep an eye on the man in the middle who, when he first approaches, has a mustache, but after the dog is hurled in the air, suddenly loses it.
Humanity is and always will be diverse. Making generalizations (even those based on statistical fact) is unmaintainable b/c there will always be a case where someone doesn't apply. To create a system where one form of living (or means of education) is glorified, limits our ability to understand other. I'm curious if and how Sir Robinson values all areas of education. Also, can you imagine a world where becoming a fireman has the same prestige as being a doctor?
Humanity is and will be diverse. Making generalizations (even those based on statistical fact) is unmaintainable b/c there will always be a case where someone doesn't apply. To create a system where one form of living (or means of education) is glorified, limits our ability to understand other. I'm curious if and how Sir Robinson values all areas of education. Also, can you imagine a world where becoming a fireman has the same prestige as being a doctor?
At age 36, I had myself tested at the Johnson O'Connor Research Foundation Human Engineering Laboratory. I had read in books how this program helped people to find their niche and follow their talents and passions. Due to a personal situation, I've not been able to act on the data I got from being tested. But many are and finding more fulfilling lives.
I once told someone about the Johnson O'Connor labs & she said "They should put them in every high school." BRILLIANT.
"We have built our education systems on the model of fast food. There are two models of quality assurance in catering, one is fast food where everything is standardized, the other are things like Zagat & Michelin restaurants where everything is not standardized, they're customized to local circumstances & we have sold ourselves into a fast food model of education & its impoverishing our spirits & our energies as much as fast food is depleting our physical bodies."
Ken- You've been my champion and hero for about 5 years - I was broken by our public school system - Becoming a professional illustrator gave me my self esteem back. The system said I was worthless but I was one of the lucky ones - how many don't find their talents???
@willterryart Pretty much my sentiments. Although, I'm still depressed and apathetic; I've yet to find my passion. -------On topic of this video: I'll be home-schooling my kids. America refuses to listen to reason and change for the better. Do to this, I refuse to 'take it on faith' and let the public school system do to my children what they've done to myself: kill.
@Raaszhecku I'm sorry to hear of your depression - at times I have been as well but I believe it's up to us to raise our voices at the madness that passes for education. I'm glad that you're taking action with your kids - it starts with people like you that aren't going to take what's being dished out with reckless thoughtlessness.
If you're a teacher out there I hope you realize that it's also up to you to help change the system from within.
More on the battiness of Sir Ken: In the USA many or most school systems have a trade-tech path for those who cant go the usual route. This is true many places in the world. Some kids today may not wear a watch because they rely on their cell phone- a cumbersome way to check the time, & they get dropped & broken. The watch is also in many cases jewelry, which the cell phone is not. And the non-western world is going thru the 19/20th century - what about them? Why is the system working in India?
@rh001YT I'm sorry, who no Earth told you that the system is working in India? The system is probably working at worst in India which explain their high suicide rates. I respect your views and criticism of this video but please don't post false facts.
@LordHustin The system is working in India. For instance, this year in New Delhi the cutoff score for university admissions was gpa 4.0. India continues to open new universities all the time. The suicide rate in India is not related to education. The middle and upper middle class in India is now larger than that of the USA. India put a probe on the moon and has now announced a space shuttle program. Most probs in India are caused by politics and corruption, due to cultural roots. India Rising.
@rh001YT You couldn't be more wrong regarding some of the things you said. India is opening new universities but only for engineering or medicine stream and tbh many of those are illegal. I've been living in India for 6 months so I've quite a good knowledge about this. And as for suicide, I recall an IIT student committing suicide last week due to bad grades. The system is broken and we need a new one all over the world.
@LordHustin There is something of a culture of suicide in India, but that is not the fault of he education system, rather poverty, the alleviation of which is slowed by politics & corruption, note Lokpal movement as positive trend due to education, and Mayawati as example of lack of education. There is no lack of irrigation potential in India, only corruption stops projects from being completed. What is wrong with more engineers - who is going to make the better world, social activists? Come on.
Sir Ken is just batty. People, think for a moment. The great diversity of jobs, the possibility for Zagat rated caterers, is dependent on high energy densty fuels: coal, petroleum & uranium, & availability of abundant resources, even cement (lime). In most US cities, if not all, more applicants for fire-person are rejected than accepted. Shall we train more kids for firefighting? and we know why a person chooses that path, don't we. Only linear thinking produces abundance which allows the rest.
Skipping classes, dropping out, mediocre scores, stress and depression. When the flaw is the school system itself, politicians try to fix the students... That is why our organization is here: A small activist group with hopes of changing schools for the better, we wish to obtain freedom of education for both the current generation and the next. If you care about true learning, visit EFOrganization on YouTube. Should you value the future, please join us at edfreedom(dot)org. Help us help you.
Sure, this is a great lecture to apply to situations currently, but it should not be taken for granted. There can be a world opposite of our world today, where a different solution is necessary; a world where there is not enough janitors.
Most of uni places now primarily go to the top paying overseas students. This is about money and not education and is no longer a secret. He does not address this as a problem but he should. Whoever pays more and pays first gets in first. It is not in the mainstream news and it is not university guides but everyone who has ever worked at any Western university knows...
Not really. I am an Indian, and most of my friends who've gone to the west for their higher education have gotten in through merit. In fact, more than half of them have partial or full scholarships. It isn't fair to generalise.
@gkunstlerful He did address this in the sense that he spoke for a revolution as opposed to a reform. He didn't need to explicitly point out this problem as a reform of the "fast food model" would imply such a dramatic shift, thus remedying this issue.
@Mikeinatorable to clarify myself...he referred to school and dropping out of school not in this particular speech but one of his earlier speeches, and as much as I was impressed with his work years ago the push for swaying people away from college education by someone who is an academic and as such knows that most of universities in Western countries enrol thousands of international students not based on merit but based on how much money they bring, most of whom have exceptionally poor English.
Einstein is remembered foremost as a scientist, and he was a great scientist, but he was also a great philosopher. He once said "Everyone is a genius, but if you judge a fish by their ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid."
@gkunstlerful It's not an agenda, it's about finding what you love and doing it.
That's the bottom line. He's not saying schooling isn't important, what he's saying is that it's more important to find the things you love in life and do them because you only life once. You have less than a century on this earth and the last thing you should do with that time is go through it miserably.
@Mikeinatorable that is how it is 'packed' or framed and how it is meant to be received because no one with a given agenda is going to blurt it out blatantly and make it obvious. Once upon a time, many of us have been naive wanting to believe that fellow humans mean what they say but those times are gone for good. Think it through in the context of present real life circumstances. How many people can choose what they do? How many can even do anything when unemployment goes up and jobs go out?
@gkunstlerful Everybody can. It's knowing what you want to do and having the drive to get there. It's not any simpler than that, I'm afraid. If everybody does what they want to do with their lives, they'll lead better lives, our scientists will make more new ground, businessmen will enjoy doing what they do and the redistribution of wealth throughout the social order will be corrected.
@Mikeinatorable As an educator/academic Robinson should never say, as he did, that kids should not have to go to school if they don't want to, and can do it later. IQ or morally bankrupt ,supporting KR's agenda ignore that many kids do odd jobs to help mum and dad put bread on the table so they can't do well at school or pursue dreams even if they wanted to; or may live in a war zone; or are orphans with no roots and opportunities, or have dying siblings or parents to look after. Get real.
@Mikeinatorable NO. He used the word school and referred to how many kids drop out of school because they do not enjoy school or are not motivated to study. He was knighted for a reason and is a Bilderberg for a reason and when academics abuse their intellect and knowledge to manipulate masses for a political cause they stop being academic and become power stockbrokers. I don't care if you are one of his family, PR, fans, or what not. I lost respect for him once his agenda became clear.
And if you can get access to the super confidentialB ilderberg list, you may or may not be surprised with the names of influential academics that are there.
When intelligence and acadmic skill is used to manipulate masses and spread mistruths it is criminal. This is an idealistic nonsense pleasing the ear but it is criminal in its core mission. He should spend more time working with disadvantaged youth because in his circle there is next to nothing of the painful reality.Talk your kids into leaving school and the elites' brats will have no problem with competition. The best method they use now is hike fees hoping Robinson's speeches catch on.
Very eloquent and intelligent BUT manipulative. Sir Robinson pursues the agenda of the elite and that is to talk people out of pursuing education and into pursuing alleged talents and interests. It is not OK to have kids told that not everyone needs to go to college, and that they can do it later. The elite wants this as many wil never go back to school and highly prestigous and prosperous occupations will be preserved for their own. This is to eliminate competition for uni places.
@gkunstlerful You truly believe that just because a child skips school, working to feed his family, that they can't still educate themselves? You would be amazed by how children have the capacity to educate themselves. Your con theory is also opposite of the truth; the elite WANT you to go to a traditional college, as that is one of their many forms of systematic brainwashing. You're one of those ppl who try look for evil conspiracies in everything; it makes true theorists look bad, so stop it.
@tigonridge there are no conspiracy theories - it is those who brainwash masses that resort to excusing their manipulative behaviour on con theories and being eloquent sells it well. If elites wanted everyone to go to a traditional college then the fees wouldn't be as high, tests wouldn't as ludicrous, nepotism and discretion judgment as prevailing, etc. It's a shame really. Robinson is an eloquent and knowledgeable man and a sad example of how academics shouldn't act.
@gkunstlerful The elites do not have complete control over everything as you assume; case in point is the difficulty of university entrance you mentioned. It is still subject to supply and demand regardless, which is
why going to traditional 4year college is so costly with ridiculous tests. However, many have succeeded in making high salaries with either no degree or one from vocational colleges that are so much easier and less expensive.
@gkunstlerful (cont.) Furthermore, back to the point I made earlier, you should stop assuming that a traditional schooling is the ultimate way to land a lucrative career. That's the traditional (and flawed) way of thinking. It IS okay for kids to not go to school, and it IS okay for them to do it whenever they are ready; because they can educate and train themselves through other avenues. Now, stop looking for a conspirator in every eloquent speaker and start having an open mind.
Sir Robinson has a most profound insight into the key issues facing contemporary education. He also delivers his thought in a simple and straightforward manner. The world should take note.
@BeondaPale The people with these educations are the ones that have the know-how to change things. That's what these talks are about. You're asking to change the future with people who don't exist yet and that's absurd. The people who change these types of things are the people who are here today, with their doctorates and all the other things that come with it, who see the problems with the system and want to change it for the better.
@BeondaPale Apple is far from any sort of innovation--Apple is a reincarnation, really, but I won't get into that.
So has Robinson. You're assuming that all of these people believe in the system they profited from, and that's probably a false assumption We all go through it, we all know the failures of the system and Robinson points them out clearly. The reception from the audience alone attests that they at least agree with him, and that's a step in the right direction.
I wasn't really speaking of Apple per say - more the idea of personal computing - a major innovation which wasn't really even on the radar of the worlds largest computer company of the time
I'm not saying that they're all sticks in the mud who will resist change, just that it is NATURALLY harder to think in terms of TRUE innovation when you were raised and educated in a fairly dogmatic way of thinking.
true innovations often come from left field, that's all
@BeondaPale I disagree completely. You're assuming exactly what the people who created the system assumed--that everybody can be standardized and made the same. That is false, entirely. Everybody has different capacities for change just like they have different talents and abilities that they can utilize. Nobody can ever take that away from you, not even the public schooling system, and since it's beneficial to no one for things to carry on this way, why would they resist change?
"You're assuming exactly what the people who created the system assumed--that everybody can be standardized and made the same. "
Nope, I'm not saying that revolutionary innovation from within an established institution is impossible - just less likely. And to be sure I hope to hell I'm wrong. History, however is awash with examples of me being right.
@BeondaPale To be a product of the system does not make you a slave to it. I agree though, it's not an easy thing to do, and this is completely new grounds as far as education is concerned. We've never encountered a situation like this before--where we've needed to change an entire system that has no real precedent other than ones we've already set.
The fundamental problem is not with education - it's SOCIETAL.
The global society is revving itself into a pathologically short attention span. This trend comes from 1) the acceleration, ubiquity, false beauty and multi-focus nature of (mostly communications) technologies and 2) The short-horizon perspective of market-driven economics
As technologically increases, the human attention span is taxed and grows smaller. Agree so far?
@BeondaPale Not necessarily--humans are very adaptable to almost any situation. Take away somebody my age's phone and computer and in about two or three days they'll find something else to do with their time. I think it's doubting our intelligence as human beings to say living in a digital age means our attention spans are in consequence smaller. But go on.
More than at any other time in history, students (especially older students) dream of being outside the classroom - NOT to go out an play (indeed kids are very sedentary today in comparison with previous generations) - but to be active on their personal technology
Video gaming, texting, movies, music and immersive combinations of these are offering a more compelling reality THAN reality
The teacher lecturing in front of a black board is being out competed .
This is not to say that I do not like technology - kids love computer games for a good reason - they're FUN.
But NEED (also proven by research) to move and explore. This is how they learned BEFORE schools
What if you were to create a game - a sort of on going story, where each student could choose his own role (out of a set of given roles) where both cognitive AND physical tasks and where individual AND group work was required to get to the next level?
In this environment (as with video games) the ADAPTIVE AND PERSONALIZED CURRICULUM would be everything and the teacher would merely facilitate.
What I envision is getting the best and brightest video game makers together with academics to create a really fun (personalized, but secretly standardized) game that uses computers for cognitive tasks but often requires physical, or even artistic tasks that focus on problem solving rather than the rote memory learning that is today's failure.
@BeondaPale I think that would be a disaster. You'd be giving in fully to a digital medium and you'd probably be homogenizing children even more by making a game like that. You can't have a game that can match a teacher--a good teacher, who can keep a child interested. Or a game that can match a student's personality like a personalized curriculum could. It's not possible and most times in schools, kids reject computer games as a form of learning--because it's a form of gaming.
@Mikeinatorable Additionally, today's failure is that we're steered away from what we're good at in favor of what's profitable. I agree that sitting down and throwing information at students is inefficient, but the real problem is that we're being turned away from what we really want to do. School is boring because we have to "learn" things we don't want to--it's work without any reward except a better GPA. I don't think the answer is making it into a game, though.
"but the real problem is that we're being turned away from what we really want to do."
I agree COMPLETELY. but that is the beauty of the adaptable curriculum I envision. It actually incorporates the students own desires and strengths. As the "game" (for lack of a better word) progresses the student is given choices as to where he or she wants to go. Yes it is structured, but that structure is flexible and multifaceted.
1.) "You'd be giving in fully to a digital medium"
- No, not fully. as I said before, it is the digital world that current traditional education methods compete against. And traditional is LOSING big time
But THAT digital world is anarchical. It is a world of commercialism and base impulse . Fighting fire with fire in a wise and structured way could be very beneficial in the fight AGAINST the base commercialism, vanity, and aggression that the wild digital world offers
2.) "You can't have a game that can match a teacher--a good teacher, who can keep a child interested."
The key word in your statement is GOOD. I think you'll agree that many teachers are NOT good and most CAN'T keep students interested - this is, in fact, the problem.
What I'm suggesting is so so much more than a game. The game is merely the template, in essence a new kind of classroom on which a whole new educational STRATEGY rests.
@BeondaPale The way we have our classrooms set up isn't the problem--a teacher interacting with students is not the problem. The problem is what they're being taught, and what is being squandered.
You say you can make a completely personalized education digitally--you can't. There are too many variables to the student, and a computer program can only give you rights and wrongs. You can't ask it a question.
And what if you want to be a violinist? No computer program can teach you that.
@Mikeinatorable You'd be homogenizing the students more because short of making of hundreds of millions of different pathways a game can take, you're going to make the experience one student has the same as another. Today, we go through the same classes, perhaps, but we all learn differently and interact with the teacher differently. There is no room for that in a game.
@BeondaPale Mark Zuckerburg is no real gift to the digital age. Neither really to social networking--the idea of Facebook had been around before him, he did the same thing Steve Jobs did and made a pre-existing idea prettier, easier to use and accessible. Blizzard hasn't had an original idea since WoW, especially after Activision put them under their umbrella. Your character in their game is a cookie-cut clone of every other character and is the worst argument for your idea.
@BeondaPale It's not negativity, it's the truth of it. Neither Zuckerburg or Blizzard did anything ground-breaking, they just took old ideas and made them commercially viable.
Please google "mmorpgs in education" 670 THOUSAND results. I was surprised.
I'm obviously not alone in this idea
So while it's true that my idea is not original, I don't suppose many ideas truly are:
Mozart's music was derived in part from earlier music
Einstein's equations were in part derived from early math
Both MMORPGS and social networking technologies ARE widely being spoken of IN ACADEMIC CIRCLES as part of the solution / revolution you inexplicably seem to oppose.
@BeondaPale Just because you're not alone doesn't mean you're right. Everyone thought the world was flat at one time, too. Mozart was a composer--composers create. He broke new musical ground, he didn't rehash it to make it sell better. Einstein broke boundaries and barriers with new theories and equations.
It's funny to see that you're now supporting academic "circles" when you said good ideas only come from left field.
@BeondaPale The original concept of Ken Robinson's idea comes from "left field" as well. You're basing this off of -a- YouTube video by someone who thinks WoW takes "incredible coordination and planning". If this idea of yours ever does come to fruition I'll be sure never to take part in it myself or if it's that far into the future, pull my child out of the public school system.
The idea is illogical--I'm not doing anything but pointing out its obvious flaws.
"You're basing this off of -a- YouTube video by someone who thinks..."
The video was just a blurb about the Daedalus Project, a study by a STUDENT on MMORPGs. But I'm also basing my opinion on something called "logic": Did the educational establishment originally come up with the idea of MMORPGs - The answer is an obvious no. The logical jump to education is very small
"I'm not doing anything but pointing out its obvious flaws"
@BeondaPale How many STUDENTS do you think would love to play an MMORPG all the time? Considering the average male at the age of 21 will have played over 10,000 hours of video games, I'd say a lot.
The jump is as big as saying checkers should be used to teach physics.
Flaws being: The people you cited as creative engines for this game are far from creative, learning from video games is far inferior to learning from a good teacher and it'd be impossible personalize a game on that level.
"How many STUDENTS do you think would love to play an MMORPG all the time?"
- You mean how many students do I think would love an interactive learning experience in place of sitting in a class taking notes off a blackboard? PLENTY
"The people you cited as creative engines for this game are far from creative"
Together, the people I cited as creative have created entire, immersive, virtual worlds that evolve daily. To me that at least suggest creativity
@BeondaPale That's a fault with teachers and the answer isn't to make life into a game. It's to get better teachers.
No, they haven't. World of Warcraft is an incredibly dull game--I played it for six years. Ask the WoW populous if they actually like the game and most of them will give you lackluster answers. Facebook is not even a game--it's a social networking site that's violated privacy codes and reduced you to what you can explain about yourself on a single webpage.
When have I suggested making LIFE into a game - I didn't
What I AM suggesting is simply a platform though which an enormous number of educational experiences can be accessed AT THE WHIM OF THE STUDENT. An INTRAnet - not internet - no commercials allowed.
Students interested in (for example) flying can virtually travel to a virtual place where other students who also like flying are. Flight teachers are there too and guided access to slight simulators would be available.
@BeondaPale Short of a "Matrix"-esque computer system, you wouldn't be able to interact with this flight simulator with anything except a mouse and keyboard (maybe a joystick). Once again--nothing can match real-world experience and a human transfer of knowledge.
Even if any of this existed, it ranks as one of the most impractical solutions to the problems faced by public schooling. Better teachers and personalized curriculums solve all of this without any of the problems that face your idea.
"nothing can match real-world experience and a human transfer of knowledge."
I AGREE! This communications platform dressed up like a game simply facilitates getting to those real life experiences
"Better teachers and personalized curriculums solve all of this"
I agree again. This platform allows the very best teachers, the cream of the crop, to be accessed with greater frequency. AND any personalized curriculum require better metrics - such metrics would be available here
@BeondaPale I still have to disagree. With a myriad of reasons ranging from social problems to health issues. In theory your idea is fine. But in theory, your idea is the Matrix. Short of that, I really don't think anything like this could ever work. It's a combination of the technology not being there and the practicality of it all. Anything short of history, mathematics or the sciences can't be learned in this game.
"learning from video games is far inferior to learning from a good teacher "
Irrelevant, these constructs can contain the good teacher within them.
Immersive worlds can be filled with problem based or project based learning experiences that require learning BY DOING either alone or in groups in a way that is active, challenging, and authentic. They are also INTRINSICALLY motivating. These constructs can and should also require physical and social tasks in the real world
it'd be impossible personalize a game on that level.
You're wrong - Flat out wrong. This technology is the most personalize-able thing possible at this time. Nothing even approaches it in traditional education today. In essence the student would be creating his or her OWN curriculum and directing their own education from a fairly early age.
ie; students WANTING to learn Spanish could meet together in a place that replicates portions of Mexico, Spain, Argentina, etc.
@BeondaPale Give me one example of a real game that can match the depth of a person's personality and bring out their natural flaws and talents. You can't learn to play the violin in a game, or take voice lessons or dancing lessons. There is no substitute for humanity when learning these things.
Once again, the teachers, the human element is still there because, once again, this is not just a game. it is an immense and infinitely adaptable communications platform DRESSED UP as a game
To be sure, the BEST violin teachers are not available everywhere
NOW, students, directed solely by their own desire to learn the violin, could travel to a virtual place where other students and violin teachers (even from JULLIARD) meet. Video conferencing could easily be integrated
@BeondaPale No, but there are many real-life private teachers who teach violin or any other instrument.
No, it couldn't, because you can't learn the violin over a video conference. You can't learn any instrument over a video conference. That's exactly why the "Learn to Play" videos on YouTube are such horrible learning devices. The other problem is that you would have millions of people in virtual Juilliard, not enough teachers and you'd crash the server anyway.
Violinist David Russell is a Distinguished Professor of Music at The University of North Carolina - and he disagrees with you
Please Google: "Distance learning technology and the violin" I quote him:
"The lesson was given using distance learning equipment. Although literally thousands of miles away, we felt as if we were in the same room for the lesson. The quality was so good that I could hear differences is her tone production.
I think another thing to look at is parenting as well. As a kid my parents forced me to try and do many things from playing instruments and playing sports. When parents try to force talents and passions on kids that they wish they had, it doesnt exactly work, and in fact i believe most kids find it to be a chore, i know i did. My mom nagging me to play guitar and practice, forcing me to sports camps. You have to try and make these creative pathways seem something exciting and not a chore
cadets666 1 week ago
@cadets666 Your last line sums it up perfectly. Make creative pathways something exciting, not a chore.
dankmf 4 days ago
from 11:00 onwards im like :=o
HCMos 1 week ago
Check ouy my channel to be educated in manufacturing, for free!!! like this comment so more people can learn!
dzuari 1 week ago
If only his views can be set into motion...
crazykel217 1 week ago 4
why does this only have 338,338 views? this should have at least a million!
TheFaizYunus 2 weeks ago 3
But how about Medicine, Engineering, and other Health Sciences? You need credentials and the present system to ensure quality graduate.
crocopie 2 weeks ago
@crocopie I think he agrees that you need the knowledge and proof that you understand something if you work in, say, medicine. He was talking about giving all disciplines of knowledge the same level of importance and reforming the system to the individual's needs, since everyone can't learn the same way with the same results. So of course you would have credentials and you would learn on the subject, but, to quote, "not in a linear, but in an organic way". That's how I understood it.
PyrrhosOfEpeiros 1 week ago
The answers to post-modernism?
waoop 2 weeks ago
Ken Robinson is a rock star!
cbrusharmy 3 weeks ago
I'm glad he recognizes education's development in Western countries as being developed to suit economic aims (mindless, soulless unchecked capitalism). He did miss the significance of education being used to teach the development of critical thought. It's fundamental to our development as a species, if we really want to develop.
andersoncouncilpf 3 weeks ago
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AGreyWarden 3 weeks ago
the wrist watch example made me fall from my chair... briliant ideas really.
rurounisld 3 weeks ago
ODE TO SIR KEN ROBINSON
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romanieo 1 month ago
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Qais369 1 month ago
@paulthecoolest While there are many innovative events occuring even as I type this, there are still many students that do not find their talent or passion ever in life. There are so many scientific and mathematical advances, but not everyone is meant to be a scientist or mathematician, and those are the students that end up hating their jobs, and/or not succeeding in the world. Spend an equal amount of time on each subject, including the arts, and stop prioritizing just a few.
afpope89 1 month ago
this is so true in so many ways
darkpunkpcae13 1 month ago
how are we not going to be manufactured? there are 7 billion of us and growing. how personal can we get to flourish talents?
intemperate7 1 month ago
@paulthecoolest Look up Salman Khan's Ted talk on the Khan Academy.
ConcreteRootsBboys 1 month ago
paulthecoolest = proof that the system is flawed
chack321 1 month ago
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paulthecoolest 1 month ago
I'd lik to see Mr. Robinson built a school..He seems like all talk ..If our education was so flawed den hw is it dat der r so mny innovations and technology beinjg developed and that too at a rate far beyond anything we hav seen in the past. Dont gt me wrong though wat he says does make sme sense ..Its just that he doesnt go on to tell us HOW we can built such a system of education..hw we can make education "tailor made" and meet the needs for each individual. & I havent seen sch scools either
paulthecoolest 1 month ago
there are 3 types of people in the world: those that can count and those that can't.
smikesmike05 1 month ago
Why isn't he Prime Minister again?
lifetimestube 1 month ago
great talk
the auto cc at 13:17 need some editing :/
MickGalt 1 month ago in playlist More videos from TEDtalksDirector
Just as good as his 2006 speech.
benhs1898 1 month ago
he blows his credibility right out of the gate by agreeing with Al Gore.
pretorious700 2 months ago 2
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I want to write an argumentative speech on this but i don't know how to not steal the whole thing, are there any places i can look that treat this subject?!
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EndureFocusEngageDie 2 months ago
@EndureFocusEngageDie Yes, that other side of the brain he talks about often. What is your take on the subject, how did education affect you? Do you agree or disagree with Ken Robinson? Use his proposal as your thesis statement, argue with your experience.
NIGGUHNIGGUH123 2 months ago
@NIGGUHNIGGUH123 Well i agree with him all the way except for the climate crisis, how education affect me? yes ok, thank you, i will talk about it but i don't know if that's a key point, what i meant by the first question is if there is anyone else that is talking about this subject, not if he is talking about something else.
EndureFocusEngageDie 2 months ago
@EndureFocusEngageDie Look up alternative education on wikipedia, and part from there. There are people who home school their children. There are schools that focus themselves on other aspects of "education". A great example is DASH institute, google that as well. Hope this helps
NIGGUHNIGGUH123 2 months ago
@NIGGUHNIGGUH123 Sorry, DASH Miami, not institute
NIGGUHNIGGUH123 2 months ago
@NIGGUHNIGGUH123 Thanks, what do you do for a living?
EndureFocusEngageDie 2 months ago
@EndureFocusEngageDie I'm an industrial design student.
NIGGUHNIGGUH123 2 months ago
@EndureFocusEngageDie How about yourself?
NIGGUHNIGGUH123 2 months ago
@NIGGUHNIGGUH123 just a student il say, is it interesting? what do you learn?
EndureFocusEngageDie 2 months ago
@EndureFocusEngageDie Industrial Design teaches to simplify current designs and come up with new ideas and innovative ways to approach daily life. I highly recommend watching the documentary Objectified, if you like Industrial Design
NIGGUHNIGGUH123 2 months ago
i claped
danielber1920 2 months ago
im 20 in college and im just so miserable.. Supposed to review for my quiz but i spent the night watching all Sir Ken's videos. I was crying 80% of the whole time watching this because it just resonates what i think.. I wish i can change the education system NOW.. I dont even like what I'm taking up in college- its hard, boring, too scientific, requires a lot of useless memorization-- and all just to get a stupid high paying job. But what's a good job going to do when you feel shit? :(
realpassionlife 2 months ago 7
@realpassionlife You are willing to do anything for cash? What r u, a prostitute? Let go of those botherment, and be free. God will reward your honesty with greater rewards.
SpicyHam 2 months ago
If you find Ken Robinson inspiring then please check out my facebook page The Happy Child to help support the desperate need for education reform :)
bellaashton 2 months ago
I feel broken after this speech about education. Our generation is hopeless - I dan't see a fix for myself, but I believe we can save the generations to come by changing the whole system of education. This guy is just brilliant and so inspiring :3
bucinto 2 months ago
One of the most insightful and enlightening speeches I have ever heard in my life
TheMarine250789 2 months ago 19
Hehe I'm 18 and wear a wrist watch :D
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downyourtube 2 months ago
im in grade 10 and im just wondering, is it really important to go to school.. i just want to no whats the right thing to do. im not saying totally forget about education. and does money really matter..
amanprasad100 2 months ago
@amanprasad100 Unfortunately, we do live in a system. Finishing high school would be a good idea. Then if youre an absolute genius at music/art/dance/inventing/cooking/writing, I say go for it, but its a competitive world so Id try to be as well rounded as posible, learn languages, take some non-uni preparation etc. You do need to eat, and people dont seem to be having less children, but ultimately try to follow your dream.
veroronnieronron 2 months ago
@amanprasad100 School is important. It's important that you get educated, but for yourself. Do not let the system tell you what you can or cannot do. Embrace your dreams because the only limits that exist are the ones we set upon ourselves.
bcheezy1024 2 months ago
@amanprasad100 Basic understanding of words and numbers is going to help you whether it's an interview for a musical or a CEO position. When Ken talks about intelligence he is addressing the importance of all the different types of intelectual capacity. So use what you truly enjoy doing as a tool to learn everything els.
Hate math? Count and calculate how many measures there are in all the modern pop songs. When does the bridge come or the 1st & 2nd verse. Why does it sound right that way?
VoloflipTV 2 months ago
@amanprasad100 Finish high school first, and if you find something you love doing and can't think of doing anything else for the rest of your life, find the right school for it.
But that's if you're real lucky. Go to a community college and get your prerequisites done first, because that's when you can find yourself again. Some unfortunate people end up wasting years and money, only to realize that they aren't where they want to be because they wanted to be on the fast track to success.
crazy4sian 2 months ago
@amanprasad100 It is the appeal of the quick wealth and success that ropes in so many people and ends up making things brutally competitive. I'm not saying that you won't meet resistance (you will), but if you really, truly want something, believe in yourself and don't ever give up.
crazy4sian 2 months ago
To continue the food analogies, a visible symptom of our standardized education system are these thing called 'exams'.
And how do we prepare for 'exams'? Like bulimics.
We binge and cram, then purge it all when it's over. And we retain nothing at the end of it except a sense of guilt.
We are poisoning our minds, as we are poisoning our bodies.
jinbaii 2 months ago 8
Since everyone else cared to comment about his ideas and brilliance, let me lift another subject:
Does anyone else think he could do a stand-up show and rock it?
I see talent there...
GPazosL 2 months ago 4
This is man is the embodiment of pure brilliance
skeen1995 3 months ago in playlist More videos from TEDtalksDirector 6
This kind of people should rule the world instead of Merkel Sarkozy and Obama. Or is it better to say: instead of Wall Street?
BeelaTeismar 3 months ago
What a speaker!
1980nikolov 3 months ago
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lightandbeautiful 3 months ago
Questions for Ken Robinson: Is it too late for those young few college students who are truly not destined for school? And where should we start? Everyone talks about the same path, that college will benefit you greatly in life. For me college has made become isolated and I miss learning from other PEOPLE, not books.
joshybumboshy 3 months ago
@joshybumboshy College has other people in addition to books. Change your focus and follow the course that works for you, you don't need to wait for someone else to do it. If you're going to college for an education, and you get your education from the people rather than the books, what difference does it make? If you're going for the piece of paper at the end, on the other hand, and you can't get that from the people, stop wasting money on it and do what works for you. Carve out your own path.
babybirdhome 3 months ago
@joshybumboshy
I believe its never too late as long as what your doing is something you love.
Like Ken Robinson said if your doing something you love and that thing is in tune with your soul then one hour will feel like 5 minutes, but if your aren't doing something you love then that 5 minutes can turn out to be one hour. So it's never too late...because even if you find what you love at a ripe old age of 60, the times you spend at that age doing the things you love will still be worth it.
TeewhYThreeD 2 months ago
I've lived every bit of what this video says, I went through school, I went in smart (fluent in English at the age of 5, this being my Second language) and school spit me out: barely capable of going through collage, with little social skills, Scared stiff, criticizing myself, wondering "why don't I fit?" and "how can i be like everyone else?", thinking of myself as mediocre, average, and after 12 years of education not having a dam clue who I really am. He described it all perfectly.
BLPdevelopment 3 months ago 4
38 people are a single-function device
McGobstopper 3 months ago 75
@McGobstopper 38 people just simply pushed wrong button, it's sometimes happen
Quetzalfication 2 months ago
@McGobstopper and that function is sucking
holyunderware2000 2 months ago 4
@McGobstopper When i was going to comment about that 38, i found you already have done that ^^
LovemeAquarius 4 weeks ago
muito bom, como todas as palestras dele
biracunha 3 months ago
omg I love the short at the end
DavidPileGuitar 3 months ago
Comment removed
ericRcarter 3 months ago
I dare to say that my collage is one of the few in the entire world that actually uses this system or whatever you might call it, and implements it in our education system.
DeathClawing 3 months ago
During the animated short, keep an eye on the man in the middle who, when he first approaches, has a mustache, but after the dog is hurled in the air, suddenly loses it.
sk8rdman 3 months ago
Humanity is and always will be diverse. Making generalizations (even those based on statistical fact) is unmaintainable b/c there will always be a case where someone doesn't apply. To create a system where one form of living (or means of education) is glorified, limits our ability to understand other. I'm curious if and how Sir Robinson values all areas of education. Also, can you imagine a world where becoming a fireman has the same prestige as being a doctor?
sempervolovidere 3 months ago 3
Humanity is and will be diverse. Making generalizations (even those based on statistical fact) is unmaintainable b/c there will always be a case where someone doesn't apply. To create a system where one form of living (or means of education) is glorified, limits our ability to understand other. I'm curious if and how Sir Robinson values all areas of education. Also, can you imagine a world where becoming a fireman has the same prestige as being a doctor?
sempervolovidere 3 months ago
He speaks my heart, great revelations, Sir Ken, a man for the season
musicwithcolour 3 months ago 4
He is more of a comedian in this video compared to his other ones.
TPAIN077 4 months ago
At age 36, I had myself tested at the Johnson O'Connor Research Foundation Human Engineering Laboratory. I had read in books how this program helped people to find their niche and follow their talents and passions. Due to a personal situation, I've not been able to act on the data I got from being tested. But many are and finding more fulfilling lives.
I once told someone about the Johnson O'Connor labs & she said "They should put them in every high school." BRILLIANT.
xander7ful 4 months ago
"We have built our education systems on the model of fast food. There are two models of quality assurance in catering, one is fast food where everything is standardized, the other are things like Zagat & Michelin restaurants where everything is not standardized, they're customized to local circumstances & we have sold ourselves into a fast food model of education & its impoverishing our spirits & our energies as much as fast food is depleting our physical bodies."
FrikkenSpaceClown 4 months ago 70
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"... a 3 year old is not a half of a 6 yeas old"... love it!
zhanharp 4 months ago
"a 3 year old is not a half of a 6 yeas old"... love it!
zhanharp 4 months ago 2
Ken- You've been my champion and hero for about 5 years - I was broken by our public school system - Becoming a professional illustrator gave me my self esteem back. The system said I was worthless but I was one of the lucky ones - how many don't find their talents???
willterryart 5 months ago
@willterryart Pretty much my sentiments. Although, I'm still depressed and apathetic; I've yet to find my passion. -------On topic of this video: I'll be home-schooling my kids. America refuses to listen to reason and change for the better. Do to this, I refuse to 'take it on faith' and let the public school system do to my children what they've done to myself: kill.
Raaszhecku 4 months ago
@Raaszhecku I'm sorry to hear of your depression - at times I have been as well but I believe it's up to us to raise our voices at the madness that passes for education. I'm glad that you're taking action with your kids - it starts with people like you that aren't going to take what's being dished out with reckless thoughtlessness.
If you're a teacher out there I hope you realize that it's also up to you to help change the system from within.
willterryart 4 months ago
took too longgggg.
MsVolcomstone86 5 months ago
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SpicyHam 5 months ago
awesomenessssss
1SlindoG 5 months ago
More on the battiness of Sir Ken: In the USA many or most school systems have a trade-tech path for those who cant go the usual route. This is true many places in the world. Some kids today may not wear a watch because they rely on their cell phone- a cumbersome way to check the time, & they get dropped & broken. The watch is also in many cases jewelry, which the cell phone is not. And the non-western world is going thru the 19/20th century - what about them? Why is the system working in India?
rh001YT 5 months ago
@rh001YT I'm sorry, who no Earth told you that the system is working in India? The system is probably working at worst in India which explain their high suicide rates. I respect your views and criticism of this video but please don't post false facts.
LordHustin 5 months ago
@LordHustin The system is working in India. For instance, this year in New Delhi the cutoff score for university admissions was gpa 4.0. India continues to open new universities all the time. The suicide rate in India is not related to education. The middle and upper middle class in India is now larger than that of the USA. India put a probe on the moon and has now announced a space shuttle program. Most probs in India are caused by politics and corruption, due to cultural roots. India Rising.
rh001YT 5 months ago
@rh001YT You couldn't be more wrong regarding some of the things you said. India is opening new universities but only for engineering or medicine stream and tbh many of those are illegal. I've been living in India for 6 months so I've quite a good knowledge about this. And as for suicide, I recall an IIT student committing suicide last week due to bad grades. The system is broken and we need a new one all over the world.
LordHustin 5 months ago
@LordHustin There is something of a culture of suicide in India, but that is not the fault of he education system, rather poverty, the alleviation of which is slowed by politics & corruption, note Lokpal movement as positive trend due to education, and Mayawati as example of lack of education. There is no lack of irrigation potential in India, only corruption stops projects from being completed. What is wrong with more engineers - who is going to make the better world, social activists? Come on.
rh001YT 4 months ago
Sir Ken is just batty. People, think for a moment. The great diversity of jobs, the possibility for Zagat rated caterers, is dependent on high energy densty fuels: coal, petroleum & uranium, & availability of abundant resources, even cement (lime). In most US cities, if not all, more applicants for fire-person are rejected than accepted. Shall we train more kids for firefighting? and we know why a person chooses that path, don't we. Only linear thinking produces abundance which allows the rest.
rh001YT 5 months ago
I must say, I wish I'd heard his speeches during highschool. I would changed my direction completely...
XxDevl1666xX 5 months ago
Skipping classes, dropping out, mediocre scores, stress and depression. When the flaw is the school system itself, politicians try to fix the students... That is why our organization is here: A small activist group with hopes of changing schools for the better, we wish to obtain freedom of education for both the current generation and the next. If you care about true learning, visit EFOrganization on YouTube. Should you value the future, please join us at edfreedom(dot)org. Help us help you.
Blobthe15 5 months ago
hilarious but I don't buy it seriously
skytary 5 months ago
@skytary We care.
calvinzhobbes1977 5 months ago
This man is brilliant.
lara00100 5 months ago
FANTASTIC.
lara00100 5 months ago
I think TED deserves a big kiss for sharing this with us.
sugatoniik 5 months ago
Sure, this is a great lecture to apply to situations currently, but it should not be taken for granted. There can be a world opposite of our world today, where a different solution is necessary; a world where there is not enough janitors.
Vaylemn 5 months ago
@Vaylemn I'll worry about that when it happens.
I wouldn't mind a world with a few less linear thinkers.
calvinzhobbes1977 5 months ago
Very good video at the end, Loved his lecture too.
thecapone45 5 months ago
OMG. I want a professor like Sir Ken Robinson! He's the kind of professor we students would respect and really learn from :)
hottluv32 5 months ago
Most of uni places now primarily go to the top paying overseas students. This is about money and not education and is no longer a secret. He does not address this as a problem but he should. Whoever pays more and pays first gets in first. It is not in the mainstream news and it is not university guides but everyone who has ever worked at any Western university knows...
gkunstlerful 5 months ago 23
@gkunstlerful
Not really. I am an Indian, and most of my friends who've gone to the west for their higher education have gotten in through merit. In fact, more than half of them have partial or full scholarships. It isn't fair to generalise.
alwaysahead93 4 months ago
@gkunstlerful He did address this in the sense that he spoke for a revolution as opposed to a reform. He didn't need to explicitly point out this problem as a reform of the "fast food model" would imply such a dramatic shift, thus remedying this issue.
freefox12 3 months ago
@Mikeinatorable to clarify myself...he referred to school and dropping out of school not in this particular speech but one of his earlier speeches, and as much as I was impressed with his work years ago the push for swaying people away from college education by someone who is an academic and as such knows that most of universities in Western countries enrol thousands of international students not based on merit but based on how much money they bring, most of whom have exceptionally poor English.
gkunstlerful 5 months ago
Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low.
gkunstlerful 5 months ago
Einstein is remembered foremost as a scientist, and he was a great scientist, but he was also a great philosopher. He once said "Everyone is a genius, but if you judge a fish by their ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid."
TheWanderingGreen 5 months ago 2
I had great respect for his achievements and presentations until it became clear what's the real covert agenda and who's behind it.
gkunstlerful 5 months ago
@gkunstlerful get the conspiracies in!
aiiiunluckykid 5 months ago
@gkunstlerful It's not an agenda, it's about finding what you love and doing it.
That's the bottom line. He's not saying schooling isn't important, what he's saying is that it's more important to find the things you love in life and do them because you only life once. You have less than a century on this earth and the last thing you should do with that time is go through it miserably.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable that is how it is 'packed' or framed and how it is meant to be received because no one with a given agenda is going to blurt it out blatantly and make it obvious. Once upon a time, many of us have been naive wanting to believe that fellow humans mean what they say but those times are gone for good. Think it through in the context of present real life circumstances. How many people can choose what they do? How many can even do anything when unemployment goes up and jobs go out?
gkunstlerful 5 months ago
@gkunstlerful Everybody can. It's knowing what you want to do and having the drive to get there. It's not any simpler than that, I'm afraid. If everybody does what they want to do with their lives, they'll lead better lives, our scientists will make more new ground, businessmen will enjoy doing what they do and the redistribution of wealth throughout the social order will be corrected.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable As an educator/academic Robinson should never say, as he did, that kids should not have to go to school if they don't want to, and can do it later. IQ or morally bankrupt ,supporting KR's agenda ignore that many kids do odd jobs to help mum and dad put bread on the table so they can't do well at school or pursue dreams even if they wanted to; or may live in a war zone; or are orphans with no roots and opportunities, or have dying siblings or parents to look after. Get real.
gkunstlerful 5 months ago
@gkunstlerful He means college and university.
NOT public schooling. Of course kids should go to school.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable NO. He used the word school and referred to how many kids drop out of school because they do not enjoy school or are not motivated to study. He was knighted for a reason and is a Bilderberg for a reason and when academics abuse their intellect and knowledge to manipulate masses for a political cause they stop being academic and become power stockbrokers. I don't care if you are one of his family, PR, fans, or what not. I lost respect for him once his agenda became clear.
gkunstlerful 5 months ago
And if you can get access to the super confidentialB ilderberg list, you may or may not be surprised with the names of influential academics that are there.
gkunstlerful 5 months ago
When intelligence and acadmic skill is used to manipulate masses and spread mistruths it is criminal. This is an idealistic nonsense pleasing the ear but it is criminal in its core mission. He should spend more time working with disadvantaged youth because in his circle there is next to nothing of the painful reality.Talk your kids into leaving school and the elites' brats will have no problem with competition. The best method they use now is hike fees hoping Robinson's speeches catch on.
gkunstlerful 5 months ago
Very eloquent and intelligent BUT manipulative. Sir Robinson pursues the agenda of the elite and that is to talk people out of pursuing education and into pursuing alleged talents and interests. It is not OK to have kids told that not everyone needs to go to college, and that they can do it later. The elite wants this as many wil never go back to school and highly prestigous and prosperous occupations will be preserved for their own. This is to eliminate competition for uni places.
gkunstlerful 5 months ago
@gkunstlerful You truly believe that just because a child skips school, working to feed his family, that they can't still educate themselves? You would be amazed by how children have the capacity to educate themselves. Your con theory is also opposite of the truth; the elite WANT you to go to a traditional college, as that is one of their many forms of systematic brainwashing. You're one of those ppl who try look for evil conspiracies in everything; it makes true theorists look bad, so stop it.
tigonridge 5 months ago
@tigonridge there are no conspiracy theories - it is those who brainwash masses that resort to excusing their manipulative behaviour on con theories and being eloquent sells it well. If elites wanted everyone to go to a traditional college then the fees wouldn't be as high, tests wouldn't as ludicrous, nepotism and discretion judgment as prevailing, etc. It's a shame really. Robinson is an eloquent and knowledgeable man and a sad example of how academics shouldn't act.
gkunstlerful 5 months ago
@gkunstlerful The elites do not have complete control over everything as you assume; case in point is the difficulty of university entrance you mentioned. It is still subject to supply and demand regardless, which is
why going to traditional 4year college is so costly with ridiculous tests. However, many have succeeded in making high salaries with either no degree or one from vocational colleges that are so much easier and less expensive.
tigonridge 5 months ago
@gkunstlerful (cont.) Furthermore, back to the point I made earlier, you should stop assuming that a traditional schooling is the ultimate way to land a lucrative career. That's the traditional (and flawed) way of thinking. It IS okay for kids to not go to school, and it IS okay for them to do it whenever they are ready; because they can educate and train themselves through other avenues. Now, stop looking for a conspirator in every eloquent speaker and start having an open mind.
tigonridge 5 months ago
Sir Robinson has a most profound insight into the key issues facing contemporary education. He also delivers his thought in a simple and straightforward manner. The world should take note.
tdosit 5 months ago
Ok. But what if an ordinary person had full blueprint in their mind of the fundamental innovation in education that he's speaking of here??
How would that person expect be taken seriously BY ANYONE unless he or she possessed a Phd in education??
The audience clapped but these are people with Phds in education. These are people ENTRENCHED in the old industrial methods of education
Nothing will change, no revolution will take place unless voices from outside the ivory towers are listened to
BeondaPale 5 months ago 7
@BeondaPale The people with these educations are the ones that have the know-how to change things. That's what these talks are about. You're asking to change the future with people who don't exist yet and that's absurd. The people who change these types of things are the people who are here today, with their doctorates and all the other things that come with it, who see the problems with the system and want to change it for the better.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
"The people with these educations are the ones that have the know-how to change things."
Really? They have been taught from very early on in the industrial methods Robinson speaks of here.
Asking for true innovation from an old school of thought does not work.
Apple did not come from IBM
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale Apple is far from any sort of innovation--Apple is a reincarnation, really, but I won't get into that.
So has Robinson. You're assuming that all of these people believe in the system they profited from, and that's probably a false assumption We all go through it, we all know the failures of the system and Robinson points them out clearly. The reception from the audience alone attests that they at least agree with him, and that's a step in the right direction.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
I wasn't really speaking of Apple per say - more the idea of personal computing - a major innovation which wasn't really even on the radar of the worlds largest computer company of the time
I'm not saying that they're all sticks in the mud who will resist change, just that it is NATURALLY harder to think in terms of TRUE innovation when you were raised and educated in a fairly dogmatic way of thinking.
true innovations often come from left field, that's all
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale I disagree completely. You're assuming exactly what the people who created the system assumed--that everybody can be standardized and made the same. That is false, entirely. Everybody has different capacities for change just like they have different talents and abilities that they can utilize. Nobody can ever take that away from you, not even the public schooling system, and since it's beneficial to no one for things to carry on this way, why would they resist change?
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
"You're assuming exactly what the people who created the system assumed--that everybody can be standardized and made the same. "
Nope, I'm not saying that revolutionary innovation from within an established institution is impossible - just less likely. And to be sure I hope to hell I'm wrong. History, however is awash with examples of me being right.
Are you interested in hearing my radical idea?
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale To be a product of the system does not make you a slave to it. I agree though, it's not an easy thing to do, and this is completely new grounds as far as education is concerned. We've never encountered a situation like this before--where we've needed to change an entire system that has no real precedent other than ones we've already set.
Sure, go ahead.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
"We've never encountered.... "
This is true.
The fundamental problem is not with education - it's SOCIETAL.
The global society is revving itself into a pathologically short attention span. This trend comes from 1) the acceleration, ubiquity, false beauty and multi-focus nature of (mostly communications) technologies and 2) The short-horizon perspective of market-driven economics
As technologically increases, the human attention span is taxed and grows smaller. Agree so far?
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale Not necessarily--humans are very adaptable to almost any situation. Take away somebody my age's phone and computer and in about two or three days they'll find something else to do with their time. I think it's doubting our intelligence as human beings to say living in a digital age means our attention spans are in consequence smaller. But go on.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
"I think it's doubting our intelligence as human beings to say..."
-- Well, I'm going by neurological research that strongly suggest what I'm saying is true
watch?v=e349PNNrbEM
"Take away somebody my age's phone and computer and in about two or three days they'll find something else to do with their time"
-- I agree completely, but that wasn't my point
The point is, Many technologies out compete the classroom in attention getting. Do you agree?
Darn 500 character limit ->
BeondaPale 5 months ago
Prt 2
More than at any other time in history, students (especially older students) dream of being outside the classroom - NOT to go out an play (indeed kids are very sedentary today in comparison with previous generations) - but to be active on their personal technology
Video gaming, texting, movies, music and immersive combinations of these are offering a more compelling reality THAN reality
The teacher lecturing in front of a black board is being out competed .
BeondaPale 5 months ago
Prt 3
This is not to say that I do not like technology - kids love computer games for a good reason - they're FUN.
But NEED (also proven by research) to move and explore. This is how they learned BEFORE schools
What if you were to create a game - a sort of on going story, where each student could choose his own role (out of a set of given roles) where both cognitive AND physical tasks and where individual AND group work was required to get to the next level?
BeondaPale 5 months ago
Prt 4
In this environment (as with video games) the ADAPTIVE AND PERSONALIZED CURRICULUM would be everything and the teacher would merely facilitate.
What I envision is getting the best and brightest video game makers together with academics to create a really fun (personalized, but secretly standardized) game that uses computers for cognitive tasks but often requires physical, or even artistic tasks that focus on problem solving rather than the rote memory learning that is today's failure.
BeondaPale 5 months ago
Prt 5
What do you think so far?
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale I think that would be a disaster. You'd be giving in fully to a digital medium and you'd probably be homogenizing children even more by making a game like that. You can't have a game that can match a teacher--a good teacher, who can keep a child interested. Or a game that can match a student's personality like a personalized curriculum could. It's not possible and most times in schools, kids reject computer games as a form of learning--because it's a form of gaming.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable Additionally, today's failure is that we're steered away from what we're good at in favor of what's profitable. I agree that sitting down and throwing information at students is inefficient, but the real problem is that we're being turned away from what we really want to do. School is boring because we have to "learn" things we don't want to--it's work without any reward except a better GPA. I don't think the answer is making it into a game, though.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
"but the real problem is that we're being turned away from what we really want to do."
I agree COMPLETELY. but that is the beauty of the adaptable curriculum I envision. It actually incorporates the students own desires and strengths. As the "game" (for lack of a better word) progresses the student is given choices as to where he or she wants to go. Yes it is structured, but that structure is flexible and multifaceted.
God, it's great. I see it in my head so clearly!!
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the concepts I've laid out here and some of your objections are illogical
How would personalizing education toward an individual student homogenize that student? - that doesn't make sense
Let me address your objections one by one
BeondaPale 5 months ago
1.) "You'd be giving in fully to a digital medium"
- No, not fully. as I said before, it is the digital world that current traditional education methods compete against. And traditional is LOSING big time
But THAT digital world is anarchical. It is a world of commercialism and base impulse . Fighting fire with fire in a wise and structured way could be very beneficial in the fight AGAINST the base commercialism, vanity, and aggression that the wild digital world offers
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale
2.) "You can't have a game that can match a teacher--a good teacher, who can keep a child interested."
The key word in your statement is GOOD. I think you'll agree that many teachers are NOT good and most CAN'T keep students interested - this is, in fact, the problem.
What I'm suggesting is so so much more than a game. The game is merely the template, in essence a new kind of classroom on which a whole new educational STRATEGY rests.
...and good teachers will still be there.
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale The way we have our classrooms set up isn't the problem--a teacher interacting with students is not the problem. The problem is what they're being taught, and what is being squandered.
You say you can make a completely personalized education digitally--you can't. There are too many variables to the student, and a computer program can only give you rights and wrongs. You can't ask it a question.
And what if you want to be a violinist? No computer program can teach you that.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable You'd be homogenizing the students more because short of making of hundreds of millions of different pathways a game can take, you're going to make the experience one student has the same as another. Today, we go through the same classes, perhaps, but we all learn differently and interact with the teacher differently. There is no room for that in a game.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
"You say you can make a completely personalized education digitally--you can't. There are too many variables to the student"
Talk to Mark Zuckerburg and Blizzard Entertainment, then get back to me
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale Mark Zuckerburg is no real gift to the digital age. Neither really to social networking--the idea of Facebook had been around before him, he did the same thing Steve Jobs did and made a pre-existing idea prettier, easier to use and accessible. Blizzard hasn't had an original idea since WoW, especially after Activision put them under their umbrella. Your character in their game is a cookie-cut clone of every other character and is the worst argument for your idea.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
I have seldom encountered such negativity. I wish you happiness in the future.
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale It's not negativity, it's the truth of it. Neither Zuckerburg or Blizzard did anything ground-breaking, they just took old ideas and made them commercially viable.
Same to you.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
Please google "mmorpgs in education" 670 THOUSAND results. I was surprised.
I'm obviously not alone in this idea
So while it's true that my idea is not original, I don't suppose many ideas truly are:
Mozart's music was derived in part from earlier music
Einstein's equations were in part derived from early math
Both MMORPGS and social networking technologies ARE widely being spoken of IN ACADEMIC CIRCLES as part of the solution / revolution you inexplicably seem to oppose.
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale Just because you're not alone doesn't mean you're right. Everyone thought the world was flat at one time, too. Mozart was a composer--composers create. He broke new musical ground, he didn't rehash it to make it sell better. Einstein broke boundaries and barriers with new theories and equations.
It's funny to see that you're now supporting academic "circles" when you said good ideas only come from left field.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
"It's funny to see that you're now supporting academic "circles" when you said good ideas only come from left field. "
Nope, I've proven my point. The ORIGINAL idea of using the MMORPG format in education was conceived OUSIDE of the educational ivory tower.
It DID come out of left field
watch?v=feDyp1UPEs0
That the academic circles i spoke of are now accepting and writing about it goes a long way in countering YOUR attempt to denigrate the idea
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale The original concept of Ken Robinson's idea comes from "left field" as well. You're basing this off of -a- YouTube video by someone who thinks WoW takes "incredible coordination and planning". If this idea of yours ever does come to fruition I'll be sure never to take part in it myself or if it's that far into the future, pull my child out of the public school system.
The idea is illogical--I'm not doing anything but pointing out its obvious flaws.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
"You're basing this off of -a- YouTube video by someone who thinks..."
The video was just a blurb about the Daedalus Project, a study by a STUDENT on MMORPGs. But I'm also basing my opinion on something called "logic": Did the educational establishment originally come up with the idea of MMORPGs - The answer is an obvious no. The logical jump to education is very small
"I'm not doing anything but pointing out its obvious flaws"
-- you haven't pointed out ONE flaw
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale How many STUDENTS do you think would love to play an MMORPG all the time? Considering the average male at the age of 21 will have played over 10,000 hours of video games, I'd say a lot.
The jump is as big as saying checkers should be used to teach physics.
Flaws being: The people you cited as creative engines for this game are far from creative, learning from video games is far inferior to learning from a good teacher and it'd be impossible personalize a game on that level.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
"How many STUDENTS do you think would love to play an MMORPG all the time?"
- You mean how many students do I think would love an interactive learning experience in place of sitting in a class taking notes off a blackboard? PLENTY
"The people you cited as creative engines for this game are far from creative"
Together, the people I cited as creative have created entire, immersive, virtual worlds that evolve daily. To me that at least suggest creativity
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale That's a fault with teachers and the answer isn't to make life into a game. It's to get better teachers.
No, they haven't. World of Warcraft is an incredibly dull game--I played it for six years. Ask the WoW populous if they actually like the game and most of them will give you lackluster answers. Facebook is not even a game--it's a social networking site that's violated privacy codes and reduced you to what you can explain about yourself on a single webpage.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
When have I suggested making LIFE into a game - I didn't
What I AM suggesting is simply a platform though which an enormous number of educational experiences can be accessed AT THE WHIM OF THE STUDENT. An INTRAnet - not internet - no commercials allowed.
Students interested in (for example) flying can virtually travel to a virtual place where other students who also like flying are. Flight teachers are there too and guided access to slight simulators would be available.
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale Short of a "Matrix"-esque computer system, you wouldn't be able to interact with this flight simulator with anything except a mouse and keyboard (maybe a joystick). Once again--nothing can match real-world experience and a human transfer of knowledge.
Even if any of this existed, it ranks as one of the most impractical solutions to the problems faced by public schooling. Better teachers and personalized curriculums solve all of this without any of the problems that face your idea.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
"nothing can match real-world experience and a human transfer of knowledge."
I AGREE! This communications platform dressed up like a game simply facilitates getting to those real life experiences
"Better teachers and personalized curriculums solve all of this"
I agree again. This platform allows the very best teachers, the cream of the crop, to be accessed with greater frequency. AND any personalized curriculum require better metrics - such metrics would be available here
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale I still have to disagree. With a myriad of reasons ranging from social problems to health issues. In theory your idea is fine. But in theory, your idea is the Matrix. Short of that, I really don't think anything like this could ever work. It's a combination of the technology not being there and the practicality of it all. Anything short of history, mathematics or the sciences can't be learned in this game.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
"learning from video games is far inferior to learning from a good teacher "
Irrelevant, these constructs can contain the good teacher within them.
Immersive worlds can be filled with problem based or project based learning experiences that require learning BY DOING either alone or in groups in a way that is active, challenging, and authentic. They are also INTRINSICALLY motivating. These constructs can and should also require physical and social tasks in the real world
BeondaPale 5 months ago
Respond to this video...
it'd be impossible personalize a game on that level.
You're wrong - Flat out wrong. This technology is the most personalize-able thing possible at this time. Nothing even approaches it in traditional education today. In essence the student would be creating his or her OWN curriculum and directing their own education from a fairly early age.
ie; students WANTING to learn Spanish could meet together in a place that replicates portions of Mexico, Spain, Argentina, etc.
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale Give me one example of a real game that can match the depth of a person's personality and bring out their natural flaws and talents. You can't learn to play the violin in a game, or take voice lessons or dancing lessons. There is no substitute for humanity when learning these things.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
Once again, the teachers, the human element is still there because, once again, this is not just a game. it is an immense and infinitely adaptable communications platform DRESSED UP as a game
To be sure, the BEST violin teachers are not available everywhere
NOW, students, directed solely by their own desire to learn the violin, could travel to a virtual place where other students and violin teachers (even from JULLIARD) meet. Video conferencing could easily be integrated
BeondaPale 5 months ago
@BeondaPale No, but there are many real-life private teachers who teach violin or any other instrument.
No, it couldn't, because you can't learn the violin over a video conference. You can't learn any instrument over a video conference. That's exactly why the "Learn to Play" videos on YouTube are such horrible learning devices. The other problem is that you would have millions of people in virtual Juilliard, not enough teachers and you'd crash the server anyway.
Mikeinatorable 5 months ago
@Mikeinatorable
Violinist David Russell is a Distinguished Professor of Music at The University of North Carolina - and he disagrees with you
Please Google: "Distance learning technology and the violin" I quote him:
"The lesson was given using distance learning equipment. Although literally thousands of miles away, we felt as if we were in the same room for the lesson. The quality was so good that I could hear differences is her tone production.
This technology is really amazing."
BeondaPale 5 months ago