You have an instrument to determine which coffee pots are on, but neglected to put in an instrument that detects a whole other plane is on the runway. SMART!
...a very foggy day ...with very poor visibility...with no ground radar....and to make things worst.....there was communication interferance / misunderstandings....
...the chances for a crash were extremely high....when the stupid controller allowed the two boeings to use the runway at the same time....of course these do not excuse the KLM pilot....but the controller is at faul...
Modern genetic studies, published as "The History and Geography of Human Genes" (Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Paolo Menozzi and Alberto Piazza), divides humanity into four major ethnic regions, African (Khoisan), Caucasoids (Basque), Mongoloids (American Indian) and Australians (Aborigine) (Time, No. 3, 1995).
Basque man=Original white man,original european and where white people's genes are founded on.Bet you didnt know this.Cromagnon man evolved into the basque man.
I'm amazed that Cineflix from Canada, this program's creators have sold this to so many different production companies around the world. Makes me proud that Canada can produce something successful for once.
The Dutch people are proud can do no wrong people.. Look at the Joran Van Der Sloot case the Dutch officials of Aruba still claims he is innocent of killing two girls.
Do a search for Joran Van Der Sloot and find out for yourself.
I actually think that is Control Tower's fault, i mind, you have no visivility, and the only thing that can aid you is the comm with the pilots, then, why did he let the KLM enter the runway when there was another plane still rolling to taxi? I know times and costs but, theres also the security factor. He must never gave cleareance for the KLM to enter runway, and let KLM to contact ATC, ATC doesnt control the airport, and the KLM was still there,
@arayashikinoshaka the KLM was taxiing down the runway then make a 180 degrees turn and take off, the best solution is not letting the Pan Am enter the runway while the KLM is on the runway because the KLM entered the runway first...
@ToInfinity1 Now that i watch again, the Panam enters the runway, i thought it had just landed and it was taxiing to exit the runway, now im a little confused, why the control tower told the pan am to enter the runway? even knowing that the KLM was face to face with the panam waiting for clearance
@arayashikinoshaka yeah, its both the ATC's fault and the impatient pilot of KLM who didnt wait for the actual clearance. the tower shouldnt let two planes to stay on the runway face to face, or even they face the same direction for a long time, expect the "taxi into position and hold" instruction, because the plane entered first is taking off and would leave the runway in no time, so its not a threat to the other plane.
@arayashikinoshaka the tower let the Pan Am in is probably because they wanted to save up sometime and get more departures and arrivals. the towers instruction for Pan Am is to taxi down the runway and taxi out at one of the taxiway and then taxi back to the runway to takeoff, instructions for KLM is to taxi down the runway then turn around to takeoff, but the KLM didnt wait for the Pan Am to taxi out of the runway, it just roared down the runway, ignored everything, then caused the disaster.
@ToInfinity1 I read a little about the disaster, cleared a lot of doubts,
1st. The Teneriffe airport was a designed secondary airport because an terrorist attack on Gran Canaria airport, this 2 planes, as well as 6 more, were here beacause of that
2nd. Teneriffe airport was (now there's another) a one runway airport with only 4 connection taxyways to the main platform, 2 in one end, 2 in the other
3rd. Comm was, as well as today, by UVHF radios, what means that they are two direction comms
@arayashikinoshaka 3rd. Tower calls at the same time to KLM to stop take off because of panam, but because of the UVHF radios, KLM just heard interference
4th. 10 seconds later, in the KLM cockpit, only the flight engineer was listening the radio, hearing another call from tower, he thinks he heard "panam is still in the runway" (black box confirms that), he tells inmediately to van Zanten, but van Zanten ignores the engineer, answering "oh ya", the engineer desists because of van Zanten rep.
@arayashikinoshaka It was a series of facts, started with a terrorist attack in Gran Canaria, and tragically finished in the crash of the KLM plane into the Panam plane.
I read on wikipedia and watch a national geografic documentary about the disaster
@arayashikinoshaka yeah, you're totally right.. so overall, it's both the pilots and the ATC's fault. and there are many other causes of this disaster.. which you had just said, so yeah...
@arayashikinoshaka It's because the taxi way was full of parked aircraft that were clogging the small airport. The PanAm was suppose to follow the KLM down the runway and turn onto the taxi way (after clearing the choked apron) while the KLM went to the end and waited.
@Altair9678 I didn't mentioned this, but now that you touch that point, i'll tell you, PanAm had to clear the runway by the 3rd exit, they overrun it, because of the fog, KLM crashed into PanAm near the 4th Exit. And about the parked planes, i mention them, but not where they were, thanks for your observation
@lzarwisa Yea if you pause it at the right time you can see him bent and his face...you can see its really horribly photo-shopped but of course it moves fast so you don't notice.
@yonghan533 No.. KLM is a very good airline. and pilots have good skills! check out SuredT's channel who is a KLM 744 captain, this is how KLM pilots nowadays fly, very professional.
@ToInfinity1 but only by one channel, what means that if wou talk, you cant listen, if someone else talk, you cant talk, if you talk, theres interference
4th. Teneriffe airport was at 700 mts. above sea level, and between 2 mountains, wich means that fog generated by clouds was a regular issue in that airport
Knowing this, lets review the facts
1st. KLM is ready to take off, with ATC clearance, so, take off is a fact
2nd. Panam calls by radio to tower telling that they are in the runway
another big factor of this crash is the fact that the KLM pilot was the companies CHIEF pilot - the most senior captain in service at the time with KLM. The First Officer did not dare contradict him a second time, after he did so once with the lack of ATC clearance. Many factors played a role here, but in the end it was determined that Human Error was the leading cause of this accident. To this day, neither KLM nor the now defunct Pan Am have taken responsibility for the accident .
@Jamiropat Well KLM should take responsibility for this disaster for the sake of captain van zanten, who although dead must know it was all his fault.
I think "all" is rather too strong. Unless one is prepared to argue that a safe flying environment = allowing two 747s to stay on an active runway at the same time when 1) fog has started rolling across the runway and; 2) there is no ground radar. ATC had a responsibility to shut down the airport at that point. I don't understand how even seasoned accident investigators have turned a blind eye to this fact. Maybe you could fill me in.
@cchris874 well i agree that having two planes taxi down a runway is stupid and dangerous, why didn't they make the pan am just wait for the klm to take off before taxiing? The problem is that all these errors and stupid decisions taken do not come close to taking off without atc clearance or permission. Getting clearance and permission was paramount here and something no pilot let alone a senior one should have overlooked especially given the fact he couldn't see the pan am or didn't know if it
"do not come close to taking off without atc clearance"
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That depends on whether one thinks this was a mistake, or was deliberate. I am under the impression that most posters at youtube have the mistaken impression KLM KNEW he did not have clearance but didn't give a damn. That is not the consensus view among safety experts or pilots.
@cchris874 i wish i could listen to the cockpit voice recording and hear the tone of van zantens voice that might answer some things. Maybe your right but don't forget this guy was going to take off without atc clearance or permission to take off! Is there any examples of this happening today by mistake? Or were attitudes a little more lax and care free back then? Is this not the cardinal sin in aviation???
Hi, I don't mean to pretend I'm an aviation expert, as I'm not even in the field. So I can't say for sure the answers. But the situation seems to me more subtle than "I'm taking off whether you like it or not." For example, his initial opening of the throttles was negligible, and may have simply been to rev up the engines so they could go extra quickly once they got the clearance. This is not exactly unheard of.
Now the Dutch report - which we may assume is biased, nonetheless makes (I think) a plausible case that Meurs was in effect asking for both an airways and TO clrance. Now consider ATC's response: "You are cleared" followed almost immediately by the words "take off." This, I think, is a more plausible scenario. This doesn't get KLM off the hook, but it's yet another error in a long chain of bad luck. ATC should have said "hold for TO. Here is your AIRWAYS clearance.
The other speculative factor that may have played a roll is that ATC were listening to the climax of a soccer match at the moment all this was happening. It seems fair to say they were somewhat distracted, as evidenced by their referring to the Pan Am with slightly different variants, and twice calling it with the wrong flight #. This is not to say ATC was the primary cause, but simply to show how this was, IMO, not just a case of "bloody murder."
@cchris874 well i won't listen to any dutch report because i think its the case that they don't even mention van zantens mistake, therefore the report is blatantly biased. As you say you are no expert alas neither am i, neither do i have access to the full facts. But for me it boils down to van zanten making the most critical error of all errors made that day, wether this it was intentional or not. Evidence points to it being intentional or it may have just been one of the biggest recorded..
@chatteyj ... cases of a lapse in common sense. I'd really like to hear the actual cockpit voice recordings, but every almost word the pan am crew speaks up to that point states that they aren't clear of the runway. Was van zanten hard of hearing? Was his english poor?
To give another example, there was a Lufthansa Airbus at LHR, both of whose crew were 100% convinced they had clearance. Yet the tape revealed 100% that they had never been given the clearance. So convinced were the crew they had the clearance, they radioed back to ATC to advise them that it was not a good idea to have been given clearance, since they came close to striking another plane !!! The crew's confusion stemmed again from receiving an airways clearance right before TO.
It is considered unthinkable by the pilots I've spoken with to entertain that a pilot would knowingly take off w/o clearance. This kind of theory only appears on casual chat boards. Think about it for a moment: he has two witnesses to turn him in. Is he going to commit occupational suicide?
I realize I go against the grain here, but an unfortunate mistake to me is more forgivebale than a deliberate decision to keep an airport open. It's totally irresponsible.
@cchris874 had he not collided with the panam then he would have little defend and could claim ignorance as some people are suggesting was the case anyway. As said before many times zanten had zero indication that pan am was clear, but to the contrary, he'd received communication that the pan am was still ON the runway. Maybe he was more scared of klm having to incur additional costs of putting people up in hotels that night than him hitting the pan am, seems clear that the guy was very anxious
yes this did happen in 1977. "The Tenerife airport disaster in 1977 was a collision involving two Boeing 747 passenger aircraft on the runway of Los Rodeos Airport (now known as Tenerife North Airport) on the Spanish island of Tenerife"
@biggestkrisfan The PIC (pilot in command) was Victor Grubbs,the plane was named "Clipper Victor" referring to him,and his copilot was Robert Bragg. I think they are still both alive. BTW the 747 Pan Am was the very first 747 delivered,it was in 1970 or 1971 if I remember right...
@biggestkrisfan I dont know where you get any of this information. NO ONE survived on the Dutch KLM aircraft. The pilot, copilot, flight engineer, and all passengers and crew died in the crash. You need to not rely on information you receive from other people's comments. I dont know where you came up with "the surviving Dutch Pilot committed suicide". You should read up on this, he died in the crash.
oh my God terrible!the video is so damned real!Rip for all those who lost their lives for an human error...may this unforgettable tragedy be a lesson for pilots who are in "hurry"...there's no hurry in human livings....tks for sharing.
@SPEEDLIMIT896 he didnt say "clear to take off" the klm route was clear but not the takeoff.. klm took off without proper clearance. get there-itis at it's finest.
sad accident. but there is a reason that they call it a accident. bu as meny of you say. it could have been stoped! (sorry for the bad english) r.i.p for all of hwo lost their lifes.,
it was trhe KLM pilot if her survived he woulda had discipline action ignorin ATC a major error that costed him and the passegers both on pan am and KLM.
Dont forget to blast the first officer of the arrogant captain....he did not do enough to stop the situation. He is second in command and if you see the captain screwing up, you do WHATEVER it takes to right the wrongs .....that is why he is suppose to be there.......even if it means forcefully.
if KLM had simply asked if Pan Am was still on the runway and waited for a straight answer the accident wouldn't have happened. That was the one mistake that caused it. launguage had absolutely nothing to do with it
Capt Van Zanten was an arrogant self made GOD who felt & acted like a god figure. I will never fly with such a twerp of a pilot. I appauld the survivors & crew of the Pam Am flight who did a good job of surviving this terrible accident.
The airport ATC & emergency crews shoud've called in more help & have alot of knowledge about their Airport. It's a pity we learn from disasstrous accidents happen.
Capt Van Zanten was an arrogant self made GOD who felt & acted like a god figure. I will never fly with such a twerp of a pilot. I appauld the survivors & crew of the Pam Am flight who did a good job of surviving this terrible accident.
The airport ATC & emergency crews shoud've called in more help & have alot of knowledge about their Airport.
It is not said here, but interference was at the Coms, when the Pan Am said that they were still on the runway. The KLM only heard OK from ATC, when they asked for permission. At least that was in a Seconds from Disaster episode.
Basically dumb ass. You learn not to be this stupid as a Student Pilot. Big Time Dumb ass.....that is as far as is it goes as arrogant asshole pilots perhaps? Lost over 550 people....good going CAPTAIN! YOU ARE NO SCULLY. No ground school ever teaches you to be an arrogant asshole...I guess you just develop it as loser Captain Van der smoot did or what ever the losers name is.
@piratesonline1 Nope, the turn they used was the exit ATC was talking about, and explicitly declared they were not clear of the runway. The KLM did not have takeoff clearance when it took off.
Wow, that is terrible. That was a ATC's fault and the KLM pilot too, the co-pilot on that aircraft did as instructed, but the pilot did not. I like KLM, but that was a stupid mistake. It was also PANAM's fault too. Unfortunatly they didn't get off at the right time, but they did try to get the ATC's attention, and the KLM pilot should be listenting in because they can hear everything they said, instead he couldn't wait, which caused many lives to be lost. I believe that many mistakes caused it.
Actually the reconstruction is pretty good. The Panam crew ignored the taxiway that the controller intended them to take because it was at an unpractical angle in such a large plane; they thought it was the wrong one.The KLM captain was eager to take off and get back to Amsterdam because of duty time considerations. If the KLM crew had been delayed just a little longer, they would have become illegal to fly the entire leg and had to take a rest period before they could fly again
The KLM pilot earned himself 335 kills, 247 betrayals and a suicide in like 1 second. The announcer must have gone nuts.
MetallicaBrando217 6 days ago
Co pilot- .... Wtf!?
scooter51810 1 week ago
the Dutch pilot is a mass murderer
niselat 2 weeks ago
Tenerife is a suburb of Tijuana, Mexico
WickedGravityVideo 3 weeks ago
press 9 go bitches
ConstructionCentral 1 month ago
Now think about how nitro could have saved those flights
Roxtar107 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You have an instrument to determine which coffee pots are on, but neglected to put in an instrument that detects a whole other plane is on the runway. SMART!
BobDoleNSatanRmyniGz 2 months ago
Comment removed
BobDoleNSatanRmyniGz 2 months ago
ey, people, look here: 4:55 the pilot pushes the yoke forwards and so OPEN THE THROTTLE
but here 6:26 the pilot pushes the yoke forwards too but THE ENGEENE STALLS!
WTF??? How can I open the throttle?
hubs107 2 months ago 5
@jesse0576 I'm living in Spain, and thats mexican accent, not spanish.
MikeMA31 2 months ago
...a very foggy day ...with very poor visibility...with no ground radar....and to make things worst.....there was communication interferance / misunderstandings....
...the chances for a crash were extremely high....when the stupid controller allowed the two boeings to use the runway at the same time....of course these do not excuse the KLM pilot....but the controller is at faul...
godanddevilsucks 3 months ago
What the hell is up with that mexican accent?
Tenerife is in Europe for fucks sake...
MikeMA31 3 months ago
Comment removed
MikeMA31 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Modern genetic studies, published as "The History and Geography of Human Genes" (Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Paolo Menozzi and Alberto Piazza), divides humanity into four major ethnic regions, African (Khoisan), Caucasoids (Basque), Mongoloids (American Indian) and Australians (Aborigine) (Time, No. 3, 1995).
Basque man=Original white man,original european and where white people's genes are founded on.Bet you didnt know this.Cromagnon man evolved into the basque man.
TheBasqueLand 3 months ago
That's Mr.Impatient for ya
Lowgaen11 3 months ago
lol stupid americans
IamNotDiego 5 months ago
@IamNotDiego actually it was dutch caused. but im sure you dont care about that.
joejoeirish 3 months ago
Why doesn't the reenactment show the burning fuel enter the KLM cockpit so we can enjoy watching Captain Van Zanten burn to death?
RK831 6 months ago
omg its foggy
LubboVEVO 6 months ago
Very sad
Leycomsucks 7 months ago
We`ve moved on since 1977 :-)
Boxman363 8 months ago
euhmmm... im going to new york from the netherlands... with KLM .... hope the pilot in not such a douchbagg
yrdisaster 8 months ago
"KNOCK IT OFF!" Said the second 747 pilot as the first 747 pilot's prank goes too far. Isn't that what he said?
aaron1a12 8 months ago
The real fault lies with the terrorist that diverted these aircraft to begin with.
theWall0719 9 months ago
You changed the title? :I
Golditz95 9 months ago
The KLM pilot was actually killed in the crash!
Livewire365 9 months ago
Comment removed
SAMCAMJAIK1 10 months ago
@SAMCAMJAIK1 You left out that ships have collided in fog, too. The Andrea Doria and the Stockholm, for instance.
TheLastScion1 3 days ago
Captian Van Zantens Fault the ATC said Permission Denied to Take off and Van Zanten Said were Going then 5 minutes later KA-boom
Mrislandboy03 10 months ago
it was the dutch fault.Captain van zanten made a very wrong desicion that killed hundreds of people.I realy felt sorry for all the people who died.
diceplayaLOL 10 months ago
Stupid pilot.
mrmoga 11 months ago
woooowwww!!!!
arkerooz 1 year ago
I'm amazed that Cineflix from Canada, this program's creators have sold this to so many different production companies around the world. Makes me proud that Canada can produce something successful for once.
broot4u 1 year ago
I can't believe why this pilot made this decision, he was one of KLM's best pilots.
mjdronrijp 1 year ago
the KLM is not totally wrecked but the PANAM is totally wrecked you know
anjochiong 1 year ago
Glad thìs pilot of KLM died during the crash, you don't like an Idiot like him flying your family to hell....
gnoeveldraaf 1 year ago
@gnoeveldraaf I wish he had lived so he could see what he did and then go to jail for life.
aSASa45454 1 year ago
@aSASa45454
You got a point there.....
gnoeveldraaf 1 year ago
FUCK WERE ALL GONNA DIE! *rips clothes off and runs*
TehReyMan 1 year ago
This was on Air Crash Investigations.
VNTO3 1 year ago
how did they make this video? It's so realistic
TaylorJ415 1 year ago
I feel sorry for those pilots, with all the fear in their faces and they know it's too late, but they're trying to stop it :(
lonesoldier33 1 year ago
Ouch. One word. Ouch. If i was the klm dude, i wouldve waited and learned better english. I guess thats why i dont fly planes.
Thomasmodeler 1 year ago
we study that one during cockpit ressource management training.
The KLM captain was unfortunatly over confident .
philippe747300 1 year ago
I know this might sound wrong but that was good acting by those actors, sounded very real. RIP to those who died.
1001014 1 year ago
i feel sorry to both KLM1805 and PANAM 1736 passenger.
dekaviation 1 year ago
PBS THEIF!
schiffy 1 year ago
that i scary
HaleemaBieber 1 year ago
Worst aviation disaster? Hmm, I think this ties with 9-11.
gokuto99 1 year ago
butcrac at 2:16
rileyc01 1 year ago
that bloody dutch pilot completely ignored ATC clearence what a TWAT as a result alot of people died!
malicepenguin1 1 year ago
i think this may be a fatel error on behalf of the dutchman and ATC!
malicepenguin1 1 year ago
OMG I love the graphics.. The graphics clearly show that the Dutchman is Guilty...
manny298 1 year ago
The Dutch people are proud can do no wrong people.. Look at the Joran Van Der Sloot case the Dutch officials of Aruba still claims he is innocent of killing two girls.
Do a search for Joran Van Der Sloot and find out for yourself.
manny298 1 year ago
By the way, this is the plane crash with more victims in history, nothing would ever be like before after this crash
arayashikinoshaka 1 year ago
I actually think that is Control Tower's fault, i mind, you have no visivility, and the only thing that can aid you is the comm with the pilots, then, why did he let the KLM enter the runway when there was another plane still rolling to taxi? I know times and costs but, theres also the security factor. He must never gave cleareance for the KLM to enter runway, and let KLM to contact ATC, ATC doesnt control the airport, and the KLM was still there,
arayashikinoshaka 1 year ago
@arayashikinoshaka the KLM was taxiing down the runway then make a 180 degrees turn and take off, the best solution is not letting the Pan Am enter the runway while the KLM is on the runway because the KLM entered the runway first...
ToInfinity1 1 year ago
@ToInfinity1 Now that i watch again, the Panam enters the runway, i thought it had just landed and it was taxiing to exit the runway, now im a little confused, why the control tower told the pan am to enter the runway? even knowing that the KLM was face to face with the panam waiting for clearance
arayashikinoshaka 1 year ago
@arayashikinoshaka yeah, its both the ATC's fault and the impatient pilot of KLM who didnt wait for the actual clearance. the tower shouldnt let two planes to stay on the runway face to face, or even they face the same direction for a long time, expect the "taxi into position and hold" instruction, because the plane entered first is taking off and would leave the runway in no time, so its not a threat to the other plane.
ToInfinity1 1 year ago
@arayashikinoshaka the tower let the Pan Am in is probably because they wanted to save up sometime and get more departures and arrivals. the towers instruction for Pan Am is to taxi down the runway and taxi out at one of the taxiway and then taxi back to the runway to takeoff, instructions for KLM is to taxi down the runway then turn around to takeoff, but the KLM didnt wait for the Pan Am to taxi out of the runway, it just roared down the runway, ignored everything, then caused the disaster.
ToInfinity1 1 year ago
@ToInfinity1 I read a little about the disaster, cleared a lot of doubts,
1st. The Teneriffe airport was a designed secondary airport because an terrorist attack on Gran Canaria airport, this 2 planes, as well as 6 more, were here beacause of that
2nd. Teneriffe airport was (now there's another) a one runway airport with only 4 connection taxyways to the main platform, 2 in one end, 2 in the other
3rd. Comm was, as well as today, by UVHF radios, what means that they are two direction comms
arayashikinoshaka 1 year ago
@arayashikinoshaka 3rd. Tower calls at the same time to KLM to stop take off because of panam, but because of the UVHF radios, KLM just heard interference
4th. 10 seconds later, in the KLM cockpit, only the flight engineer was listening the radio, hearing another call from tower, he thinks he heard "panam is still in the runway" (black box confirms that), he tells inmediately to van Zanten, but van Zanten ignores the engineer, answering "oh ya", the engineer desists because of van Zanten rep.
arayashikinoshaka 1 year ago
@arayashikinoshaka It was a series of facts, started with a terrorist attack in Gran Canaria, and tragically finished in the crash of the KLM plane into the Panam plane.
I read on wikipedia and watch a national geografic documentary about the disaster
arayashikinoshaka 1 year ago
@arayashikinoshaka yeah, you're totally right.. so overall, it's both the pilots and the ATC's fault. and there are many other causes of this disaster.. which you had just said, so yeah...
ToInfinity1 1 year ago
@arayashikinoshaka It's because the taxi way was full of parked aircraft that were clogging the small airport. The PanAm was suppose to follow the KLM down the runway and turn onto the taxi way (after clearing the choked apron) while the KLM went to the end and waited.
Altair9678 1 year ago
@Altair9678 I didn't mentioned this, but now that you touch that point, i'll tell you, PanAm had to clear the runway by the 3rd exit, they overrun it, because of the fog, KLM crashed into PanAm near the 4th Exit. And about the parked planes, i mention them, but not where they were, thanks for your observation
arayashikinoshaka 1 year ago
wen did they reconstruct this, and anyway were there any survivers
footie603 1 year ago
@footie603 no. not one.
MissXoxoDancer24 1 year ago
@MissXoxoDancer24
What? There were several dozen survivors.
cchris874 1 year ago
@cchris874 sorry your right, i thought that this was a vid of the pan am 103. i commented while i was at the very begginning of the vid :P
MissXoxoDancer24 1 year ago
KLM PIC was too confident and selffish...damm that guy
TheKhishen 1 year ago
nice job b*tch
TheLazarman211 1 year ago
the klm tooo crashed klm lost their one wing watch at 7:00
iamfs2004 1 year ago
that air traffic controll guy is a idiot he gave klm clearence when he knew that pam air was still trying to fing the taxiway
LFCshadyLFC123 1 year ago
@LFCshadyLFC123 no the klm pilot is the idiot, he never got clearence.
chatteyj 1 year ago
Keep pausing at 7:03 to 7:04... I mean is that a person? They've put a lot of effort into this.
lzarwisa 1 year ago
@lzarwisa Yea if you pause it at the right time you can see him bent and his face...you can see its really horribly photo-shopped but of course it moves fast so you don't notice.
Joey7700 1 year ago
R.I.P.
AwsomeFan2010 1 year ago
this story tells us never take KLM flight.....
yonghan533 1 year ago
@yonghan533
That's a fallacy. Just because that one pilot was in the wrong doesn't mean that all pilots that fly for KLM are bad pilots...
EpicFishFingers 1 year ago
@yonghan533 No.. KLM is a very good airline. and pilots have good skills! check out SuredT's channel who is a KLM 744 captain, this is how KLM pilots nowadays fly, very professional.
ToInfinity1 1 year ago
@ToInfinity1 but only by one channel, what means that if wou talk, you cant listen, if someone else talk, you cant talk, if you talk, theres interference
4th. Teneriffe airport was at 700 mts. above sea level, and between 2 mountains, wich means that fog generated by clouds was a regular issue in that airport
Knowing this, lets review the facts
1st. KLM is ready to take off, with ATC clearance, so, take off is a fact
2nd. Panam calls by radio to tower telling that they are in the runway
arayashikinoshaka 1 year ago
another big factor of this crash is the fact that the KLM pilot was the companies CHIEF pilot - the most senior captain in service at the time with KLM. The First Officer did not dare contradict him a second time, after he did so once with the lack of ATC clearance. Many factors played a role here, but in the end it was determined that Human Error was the leading cause of this accident. To this day, neither KLM nor the now defunct Pan Am have taken responsibility for the accident .
Jamiropat 1 year ago
@Jamiropat Well KLM should take responsibility for this disaster for the sake of captain van zanten, who although dead must know it was all his fault.
chatteyj 1 year ago
@chatteyj
"all his fault"
I think "all" is rather too strong. Unless one is prepared to argue that a safe flying environment = allowing two 747s to stay on an active runway at the same time when 1) fog has started rolling across the runway and; 2) there is no ground radar. ATC had a responsibility to shut down the airport at that point. I don't understand how even seasoned accident investigators have turned a blind eye to this fact. Maybe you could fill me in.
Cheers
cchris874 1 year ago
@cchris874 well i agree that having two planes taxi down a runway is stupid and dangerous, why didn't they make the pan am just wait for the klm to take off before taxiing? The problem is that all these errors and stupid decisions taken do not come close to taking off without atc clearance or permission. Getting clearance and permission was paramount here and something no pilot let alone a senior one should have overlooked especially given the fact he couldn't see the pan am or didn't know if it
chatteyj 1 year ago
Comment removed
chatteyj 1 year ago
@chatteyj was clear. Its called common sense i think.
chatteyj 1 year ago
@chatteyj
"do not come close to taking off without atc clearance"
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That depends on whether one thinks this was a mistake, or was deliberate. I am under the impression that most posters at youtube have the mistaken impression KLM KNEW he did not have clearance but didn't give a damn. That is not the consensus view among safety experts or pilots.
Cheers
cchris874 1 year ago
@cchris874 i wish i could listen to the cockpit voice recording and hear the tone of van zantens voice that might answer some things. Maybe your right but don't forget this guy was going to take off without atc clearance or permission to take off! Is there any examples of this happening today by mistake? Or were attitudes a little more lax and care free back then? Is this not the cardinal sin in aviation???
chatteyj 1 year ago
@chatteyj
Hi, I don't mean to pretend I'm an aviation expert, as I'm not even in the field. So I can't say for sure the answers. But the situation seems to me more subtle than "I'm taking off whether you like it or not." For example, his initial opening of the throttles was negligible, and may have simply been to rev up the engines so they could go extra quickly once they got the clearance. This is not exactly unheard of.
cchris874 1 year ago
@chatteyj
con'td
Now the Dutch report - which we may assume is biased, nonetheless makes (I think) a plausible case that Meurs was in effect asking for both an airways and TO clrance. Now consider ATC's response: "You are cleared" followed almost immediately by the words "take off." This, I think, is a more plausible scenario. This doesn't get KLM off the hook, but it's yet another error in a long chain of bad luck. ATC should have said "hold for TO. Here is your AIRWAYS clearance.
cchris874 1 year ago
@chatteyj
ct'd
The other speculative factor that may have played a roll is that ATC were listening to the climax of a soccer match at the moment all this was happening. It seems fair to say they were somewhat distracted, as evidenced by their referring to the Pan Am with slightly different variants, and twice calling it with the wrong flight #. This is not to say ATC was the primary cause, but simply to show how this was, IMO, not just a case of "bloody murder."
Cheers
cchris874 1 year ago
@cchris874 well i won't listen to any dutch report because i think its the case that they don't even mention van zantens mistake, therefore the report is blatantly biased. As you say you are no expert alas neither am i, neither do i have access to the full facts. But for me it boils down to van zanten making the most critical error of all errors made that day, wether this it was intentional or not. Evidence points to it being intentional or it may have just been one of the biggest recorded..
chatteyj 1 year ago
@chatteyj ... cases of a lapse in common sense. I'd really like to hear the actual cockpit voice recordings, but every almost word the pan am crew speaks up to that point states that they aren't clear of the runway. Was van zanten hard of hearing? Was his english poor?
chatteyj 1 year ago
@chatteyj
To give another example, there was a Lufthansa Airbus at LHR, both of whose crew were 100% convinced they had clearance. Yet the tape revealed 100% that they had never been given the clearance. So convinced were the crew they had the clearance, they radioed back to ATC to advise them that it was not a good idea to have been given clearance, since they came close to striking another plane !!! The crew's confusion stemmed again from receiving an airways clearance right before TO.
cchris874 1 year ago
@chatteyj
It is considered unthinkable by the pilots I've spoken with to entertain that a pilot would knowingly take off w/o clearance. This kind of theory only appears on casual chat boards. Think about it for a moment: he has two witnesses to turn him in. Is he going to commit occupational suicide?
I realize I go against the grain here, but an unfortunate mistake to me is more forgivebale than a deliberate decision to keep an airport open. It's totally irresponsible.
Cheers
cchris874 1 year ago
@cchris874 had he not collided with the panam then he would have little defend and could claim ignorance as some people are suggesting was the case anyway. As said before many times zanten had zero indication that pan am was clear, but to the contrary, he'd received communication that the pan am was still ON the runway. Maybe he was more scared of klm having to incur additional costs of putting people up in hotels that night than him hitting the pan am, seems clear that the guy was very anxious
chatteyj 1 year ago
The other key failure was lack of surface of radar. The tower had no idea where either plane was.
Procedure Fail!
DarkKnightBob1o1 1 year ago
5:39. Thats proof that it's the KLM's fault.
TehPielightZone 1 year ago 2
yes this did happen in 1977. "The Tenerife airport disaster in 1977 was a collision involving two Boeing 747 passenger aircraft on the runway of Los Rodeos Airport (now known as Tenerife North Airport) on the Spanish island of Tenerife"
Klendathue 1 year ago
wow that was great
pie8die 1 year ago
Das ist einfach nur traurig... "Straight AHEAD us" is right, right?
582 people died in that crash and the surviving Dutch pilot commited suicide - That's not a PC game, but reality. I feel sorry for their families.
biggestkrisfan 1 year ago 6
wait this is a real story?
footie603 1 year ago
@footie603 Yes, it is. A damn sad story.
biggestkrisfan 1 year ago
@biggestkrisfan surviving pilot????? noooooooooooo dude nobody survived on the KLM,exept 1 lady passanger that wasn't on the plane...
TESTASPEEDER 1 year ago
@TESTASPEEDER You're right, this was a wrong info that I had read... I just checked it and found this on Wikipedia:
"Tenerife airport disaster"
But the number of victims is correct (583) and the tragedy is still as sad. The PanAm pilot survived, I don't know what happened to him...
biggestkrisfan 1 year ago
@biggestkrisfan The PIC (pilot in command) was Victor Grubbs,the plane was named "Clipper Victor" referring to him,and his copilot was Robert Bragg. I think they are still both alive. BTW the 747 Pan Am was the very first 747 delivered,it was in 1970 or 1971 if I remember right...
TESTASPEEDER 1 year ago
@biggestkrisfan there were no survivors from the KLM flight including the pilot
hairykewell 1 year ago
@biggestkrisfan I dont know where you get any of this information. NO ONE survived on the Dutch KLM aircraft. The pilot, copilot, flight engineer, and all passengers and crew died in the crash. You need to not rely on information you receive from other people's comments. I dont know where you came up with "the surviving Dutch Pilot committed suicide". You should read up on this, he died in the crash.
erjohnson227 1 year ago 23
@erjohnson227 acctuly the poilt surrvied
joaofbi300 11 months ago
@biggestkrisfan The dutch pilot was killed. he did not survive.
Mobee211 9 months ago
is this a joke?
MostAwsomeGuyEver 1 year ago
@MostAwsomeGuyEver Yeah this really happened
zapp800 1 year ago
@MostAwsomeGuyEver nope that pot head pilot really did kill a bunch of americans because he was a stupid mother fucker.
gtq838 1 year ago
@gtq838 He should get fucking killed or something!
MostAwsomeGuyEver 1 year ago
is this real or a joke?
MostAwsomeGuyEver 1 year ago
@MostAwsomeGuyEver real
323tiim 1 year ago
these american pilots are all on drugs and alcohol.
draziom902 1 year ago
@draziom902 blame the impatient KLM pilots
GTAstuntman101 1 year ago
@GTAstuntman101 If its their fault, i agree.
draziom902 1 year ago
oh my God terrible!the video is so damned real!Rip for all those who lost their lives for an human error...may this unforgettable tragedy be a lesson for pilots who are in "hurry"...there's no hurry in human livings....tks for sharing.
seimilaeuro 1 year ago
Hey I just smoked 10 pounds of crack and Im ready to fly a plane!
M30own 1 year ago 2
@M30own lol
levygonz 1 year ago
@M30own no. its the guy from the tower. he was on crack. he told them to collide into each other
SPEEDLIMIT896 1 year ago
@SPEEDLIMIT896 he didnt say "clear to take off" the klm route was clear but not the takeoff.. klm took off without proper clearance. get there-itis at it's finest.
xiblis 1 year ago
@M30own
so i guess u r van zanten himself? nice 2 meet u, pal! and now, tell me: how many cocks have u blowed 2 become a "star pilot"?
pharao707 8 months ago
It's really all their fault.....ATC shouldn't have given Pan Am permission to taxi
Pan Am Should've Listened to their senses and refuse taxi
And finnaly the biggest mess up KML Shouldn't have taken off in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!
Fireburnin21 1 year ago
Comment removed
johnlouisville 1 year ago
Captain Van Zanten = complete idiot, RIP to all that perished...
paulreider 1 year ago 2
UNBELIEVABLY STUPID STUPID MISTAKE
KARMANOIR1 1 year ago
@KARMANOIR1 and really sad..
point6000x 1 year ago
language had nothing to do with it; the arrogant foolish pilot did. he should have waited...
machinegunboy98 1 year ago 2
sad accident. but there is a reason that they call it a accident. bu as meny of you say. it could have been stoped! (sorry for the bad english) r.i.p for all of hwo lost their lifes.,
cherrybo13 1 year ago 2
it was trhe KLM pilot if her survived he woulda had discipline action ignorin ATC a major error that costed him and the passegers both on pan am and KLM.
RIP to all who died
ssjchriscoleman 1 year ago 2
Dont forget to blast the first officer of the arrogant captain....he did not do enough to stop the situation. He is second in command and if you see the captain screwing up, you do WHATEVER it takes to right the wrongs .....that is why he is suppose to be there.......even if it means forcefully.
FujiR500 1 year ago
if KLM had simply asked if Pan Am was still on the runway and waited for a straight answer the accident wouldn't have happened. That was the one mistake that caused it. launguage had absolutely nothing to do with it
Neil85091 1 year ago 7
Fly with LUFTHANSA!
spillerxxxxx 1 year ago
@spillerxxxxx lol?
point6000x 1 year ago
OMG that pilot cant just wait LOL ""im going"" psshh KLM sucks now
NooRGNooR 1 year ago
R.I.P. to everyone that died that day :(
iiReaCti0nZzxPS3 1 year ago 3
Capt Van Zanten was an arrogant self made GOD who felt & acted like a god figure. I will never fly with such a twerp of a pilot. I appauld the survivors & crew of the Pam Am flight who did a good job of surviving this terrible accident.
The airport ATC & emergency crews shoud've called in more help & have alot of knowledge about their Airport. It's a pity we learn from disasstrous accidents happen.
JOHNJ008 1 year ago
Capt Van Zanten was an arrogant self made GOD who felt & acted like a god figure. I will never fly with such a twerp of a pilot. I appauld the survivors & crew of the Pam Am flight who did a good job of surviving this terrible accident.
The airport ATC & emergency crews shoud've called in more help & have alot of knowledge about their Airport.
JOHNJ008 1 year ago
Comment removed
KlingonSpider 1 year ago
i blame the impatient captain......he went full speed on the fog and also the guys on the tower didnt even say go
kevinzki21 1 year ago
that was not language problems the KLM goes for take off without clearenceee
pilotsuperone1992 1 year ago
@pilotsuperone1992
It is not said here, but interference was at the Coms, when the Pan Am said that they were still on the runway. The KLM only heard OK from ATC, when they asked for permission. At least that was in a Seconds from Disaster episode.
mocsarichard2 1 year ago
Mayday we seem to have slighty hit another plane.....
awsomeman192 1 year ago
i will now avoid KLM at all costs
TheSteelersbeast 1 year ago
@TheSteelersbeast U must be retarded? KLM is one of the safest airlines in the world!
dommelsch 1 year ago
@steinwaygrande1
Everyone blame the klm pilot
I mean of course if he wasn't so
In hurry ur friend would be alive
But he didn't want to kill anybody
So think on this fucking terrorists
Who hide a bomb in the airport !
Without this asshole the planes
Had arrived on a big airport with
Much space and better electronic
60sony 1 year ago
control tower man fail... and pilot fail. People like them are - sorry to say it - even more sick than even pedophiles.
But this seems fake.
Sebrav 1 year ago
@Sebrav What seems fake ???? The accident or what. I and possibly other who have made comments would probably like to know what you mean by fake???
steinwaygrande1 1 year ago
@Sebrav Your a bastard this isn't fake you idiot your a sick human this is a real event numb nuts before you say something is fake RESEARCH IT !
FSVIDS121 1 year ago
Comment removed
bengals101 1 year ago
Basically dumb ass. You learn not to be this stupid as a Student Pilot. Big Time Dumb ass.....that is as far as is it goes as arrogant asshole pilots perhaps? Lost over 550 people....good going CAPTAIN! YOU ARE NO SCULLY. No ground school ever teaches you to be an arrogant asshole...I guess you just develop it as loser Captain Van der smoot did or what ever the losers name is.
memsermann 1 year ago
the KLM captain is an arrogant bastard. Much flight deck procedure has changed as a result.
MrDanieldb 1 year ago
The KLM was at fault too impatient never revived the "cleared for takeoff"
fordairport 1 year ago 9
@fordairport the pan am was at fault too because the atc told them to turn to taxiway charlie 3 but they didnt, they went to charlie 4 taxiway
piratesonline1 1 year ago
@piratesonline1 Nope, the turn they used was the exit ATC was talking about, and explicitly declared they were not clear of the runway. The KLM did not have takeoff clearance when it took off.
ShittiestChannelOnYT 1 year ago
damn that son of a bitch dan=mn
pkoppes777 1 year ago
well at least the pilots didnt die..
fairboy13 1 year ago
साझा करें, श्रेणी:
वाहन
साइन आउट करे!
PwnsNoobs123 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
thats y the atc said not to take off dipshit klm! Stuborn ass!
MCAS9077 1 year ago
THATS WHY THE ATC SAID DON'T TAKE OFF DIP SHIT KLM! Stuborn ass!
MCAS9077 1 year ago
holy moly dum cunts, klm
ddrest1 1 year ago
Pause at 4:43 - Does anyone else see that the white airplane on the left could have turned left right there?
tyfi109 1 year ago
this is all the KLM's pilots fault
1 he unloaded his passengers into the terminal delaying time to get out
2 he took on more fuel than he needed makeing it too heavy
3 he waited for passengers he should of left behind
4 he did not get takeoff clearence from the tower
so as you can all see KLM needs to take responsibility for their actions wich they denied!!!!
ryan0157 1 year ago
Wow, that is terrible. That was a ATC's fault and the KLM pilot too, the co-pilot on that aircraft did as instructed, but the pilot did not. I like KLM, but that was a stupid mistake. It was also PANAM's fault too. Unfortunatly they didn't get off at the right time, but they did try to get the ATC's attention, and the KLM pilot should be listenting in because they can hear everything they said, instead he couldn't wait, which caused many lives to be lost. I believe that many mistakes caused it.
abrinson1996 1 year ago
747's are no joke.I worked at the Atlanta Airport for 4 years they are Big SOB's.They need a shit load of runway to take off.
MFP1520 1 year ago
@MFP1520 How about A380's? Darn I'd love to work as a pilot!
LaughsWontHurt 1 year ago
Actually the reconstruction is pretty good. The Panam crew ignored the taxiway that the controller intended them to take because it was at an unpractical angle in such a large plane; they thought it was the wrong one.The KLM captain was eager to take off and get back to Amsterdam because of duty time considerations. If the KLM crew had been delayed just a little longer, they would have become illegal to fly the entire leg and had to take a rest period before they could fly again
pchantreau 1 year ago
oops
ryan0157 1 year ago
It doesn't matter if there's a herd of elephants in the middle of a runway you don't take off until it's clear. Pretty simple.
TheRaGiTe 1 year ago
@TheRaGiTe Amen
clokedbigman 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheRaGiTe 1 year ago
holy crap!
53tgh1 1 year ago
That fucking moron KLM pilot; he unnecessarily sacrificed his life and 582 others in the name of impatience and arrogance. Unbelievable.
73optimusprime 1 year ago