Hard determinism is based on pure Newtonian mechanics. Quantum mechanics calls determinism into question because at the atomic and sub atomic level, the cause and effect can not be distinguished from each other. Since the human brain is a quantum mechanical machine we are left to wonder if determinism as we know it even applies. The answers to these types of questions will likely have answers in the next 100 years of research.
It is impossible to believe in Hard Determinism in any form and to believe in morality. For morality only pertains to that which we have a choice over. It's a mockery of justice to say we don't have choice of it. If we are naturally greedy than greed cannot be in the realm of morality for if that tendency is by choice it is not by nature and if it is by birth than it cannot be called immoral
Subjective reality makes me personally believe that free will exists. So for me since morality is subjective then pretty much everything that is not objective would obviously fall into subjective. So her statements are pretty much subjective making anyone choose or not choose to believe her. As far as choosing, Nature vs. Nurture, The things that have happened to us affect how we handle a situation which when we handle it is what we thought would be the right way which is subjective.
If we are from another planet, which is now obvious based on all these new findings, these types of problems your talking about are probably not possible on our home planet. It adds reason to understand how we don't fit on this planet. Of course we wouldn't know this, we have never been anywhere else. It was years of me looking at things to realize this. We are a virus on this planet, its that simple. The screwed up things we do, and deal with are part of that reason.
Your right. It's not the crack babys fault. Early exposure, that wasn't his choice, forced him. It's probably why we try to be strict and do right when it comes to babys and children, they are delicate in many ways. If free will is wrong, why did our creator allow it. Christianity was murdered in 1999 with the human genome. But far more scarrier things were discovered as well, and they can't be ignored, so scientists are scared. Humans are 200,000, so we are just missing a few years.
If hard determinism is true, the illusion of decision is really strong and complex, Occam's razor would suggest decisions are true and hard determinism is wrong if based on human experience, but truth can be counterintuitive.
In the end it doesn't really matter if decision is an illusion or not, it still is our reality. Criminal acts should still be punished , specially considering that, while there are norms, positive exceptions do exist and we should strive for them, even if all is illusion.
I like the idea of hard determinism. It's just too superficially explained in this video. Hard determinism unfolds itself in the realm of the uncuttable. All there really is are movements of elementary particles that are governed solely by physical laws and are set in a multidimensional space. These laws are the real causes which bring effect. That effect is exclusively a change in the constellation of these fundamental ingredients. Environment/biology are just human concepts veiling this truth.
And I completly agree with Laci, if go knows what we are going to do, why would he put us on earth to go through all this pain and shit. If god knew, why wouldn't he just be "all loving" and put us all in heaven (or hell if your into that kind of stuff). And what if you take things that run in the family, you dont choose that, you're already predisposed to it.
Her argument is essentially genetic determinism. This isn't the argument I would go with. I personally do believe in free will. And I know that religion is it's greatest enemy. God either A. Doesn't exist B. Doesn't care C. Is a sadistic asshole.
@InaneRex even with hard determinism, we definitely have the illusion, or perhaps, even a fact of decision. (with the second line of logic, you do have to change your definition of decision from the end result of decision to the deliberation process.)
God gave us all free will, He doesn't force anyone to believe in Him. "In Christ there is TRUE freedom." Romans 8:1. I went from being addicted to drugs as well as overly concerned with what others thought of me--when I discovered who God was by reading His word, He gave me a true peace, love, freedom, happiness, and fulfillment like never before!
@liveinlove1ify But you think that you yourself chose Jesus in that moment? bc God says that the Father draws those that come to Christ Isa 65:1, John 6:44, 6:65.....There is a difference between force and free will, trust me. God doesnt force but that doesnt mean he doesnt have his plan under control and its called influenced will not free will. Nothing can be free will, we are all influenced by everything around us, rain/friends, etc....
@dougconley if god created all, is Omniscient and is omnipotent, is he not eventually responsible for everything that happens in the world, men can be held responsible for thier pets actions, and we did not create our pets in that way and we never really know how they are going to react to any kind of situation... "god" did know about the things lucifer and the talking snake were going to do (mess up his creation" before he created them... and still he did, was this a result of odd?
@henkjansmazaag Your confused. God is omniscient but he does not force us to sin, yes he made us sinning creatures but he only influnces our decisions and he doesnt have to force us to sin bc we will do it if in the correct situation is. Make sense to you? He is responisble in the end but we will still be judged for sinning, but only so that we will all be saved by God and learn righteousness throiugh his judgements, judgements arent bad but glorious!
@aussielad71, sure and while I do that you can continue getting stabbed in the ass, by your fathers 4 inch cock! Actually, why don't you find a big black man with an 8 incher? Why do things by half? Maybe you two will evolve a kid that way. He'll still be a dipshit like you.........but hey, atleast he'll be able to dunk a basketball!
When will this pathetic excuse of a race known as humanity learn to stop bickering with each other over topics that are and will always be opinion based. The bottom line is that when it comes to religion, there is no right and there is no wrong. It will be or not be whatever the individual chooses. If Christianity, Satanism, or Atheism is the way a person chooses to interpet religion, who are you to call them stupid for it? We need to learn to look past our opinions, they make us barbaric.
It's a nice idea (or excuse...) but I disagree... sure, you have no control over the events that make up your past... but given those circumstances you have the choice to either make something of it, or give up and pretty much lead a worthless existence. Of course, this is harder for some than others. Some have everything cut out for them, most don't. Some have more motivation (probably a chemical thing in your brain) than others... some have more support than others. You always have a choice.
This methodology works well in an established, controlled environment when applying scientific theory. Unfortunately, there's the ever present foil to this methodology defined (in scientific terms) as the 'nuissance variable'. This variable ALWAYS takes 'statistical, factual proof' and makes an utter fool of it - that 'nuissance variable' and the innumerable variations that is constantly producing is called...
haha i remember thinking like this. drove me insane. everybody should just TRY to enjoy their lives while they have it. another thing-
free will is factored into determinism, and does not contradict it. free will exists, but only in our minds. b4 u go saying that means its not real-our minds are whats making life altering decisions.
roll a dice (cause) you get a number (effect) but you dont know what that number is gonna be. determinism? not exactly :) there is order in chaos.
hm... people making snap judgments based upon complete naiveté. sounds like american culture to me! (see: people actually VOTED for Bush Jr. They really did. Although, I miss him... that guy was hilarious. He had little effect on my life, besides HILARIOUS clips making fun of him... geez, what a 'tard. President of the United States, or stand-up comedian... you decide.)
FFS!!! This chick is annoying! Your retarded valley girl voice makes me want to stab myself on the ear with a pencil. And your mouth is gigantic! Your mom must have banged the cookie monster!
One argument often levelled against determinism is that, "if we have no free will, then we cannot be held responsible and we have to let killers go free, etc." But this is not an argument, this is just "I don't like that scenario, so it cannot be true". And the argument is wrong, at any rate:
If a storm blows a piece of debris through a window (breaking it, of course), the debris or the storm is "to blame" for the broken glass, but the window is what needs fixing all the same.
If god is all knowing he would know even what himself is gonna do and thus doesn't even give him a choice to do anything meaning another higher power than him must've decided what's gonna happen = Irrational, illogical... god cannot be all knowing. If he's all powerful, can god create a stone so heavy he can't lift it? Can he create the stone heavier than he can lift then he's not all powerful because he can't lift it, if he can't.. well.. logic speaks for itself.. God = irrational
The future is the future and the past is the past, BUT it doesn't seem possible that one could predict the future with a hundred percent accuracy because the predictor would have to Know all the knowledge in the universe which doesn't seem likely(because knowledge is infinite)(name all the numbers in existence if you don't think so). This doesn't mean that the predictor can't be accurate, but it does mean that the predictor is limited to only saying what is likely to occur.
I think the common religious opinion is that God gave humans free will. However, since she is supposedly omnipotent, I imagine she'd also have the power to see the future. If I believed in a God, I'd probably imagine it as a person holding a set of cards but promising not to look at them.
@gogreen18 if all knowing why create evil? Only to punish us to be forever tortured yet you love us? If all knowing then why us God so REACTIONARY ...this happened so God reacted then that happens REACT...If you knew it could be PREVENTED and if not PREVENTED ...can you not STOP IT ...If you can and don't then how are you ALL LOVING? LOL ...Just not possible.
@gogreen18 how can an All loving creature create evil? If this all loving being did not create evil then if he were all loving he would stop it and if he doesn't stop it then he is either not powerful enough to do so or is not all loving and the combos are endless LOL.
@gogreen18 Hi Laci :) I can't drag God into being like you I no longer believe in it. But I call that the Rock, Paper, Scissors argument...no being can be ALL LOVING, ALL KNOWING, and ALL POWERFUL ALL in one...one always cancels out the other 2.
Mankind was subjugated to slavery by it's original forefather, Adam. People are therefore born into this world enslaved to the desires of their hearts. However, God placed within each person born, the desire to come to Him. If we ignore or resist this desire or if we feed those desires that are opposed to seeking Him, we continue blind and dead. Jesus said "I come to give you life" and "I come so you can see". Jesus, Himself, is the Way. Come to Him, right were you are and you will be freed.
@nagzul Atheism is not a belief it is simply a disbelief for lack of proof for certain said beliefs and faiths. There are wonderful belief systems that are Atheist however one of which is called Objectivism but you are wrong Atheism is not a belief and number of said posts proves nothing.
@nagzul Atheism is not a belief it is simply a disbelief for lack of proof for certain said beliefs and faiths. There are wonderful belief systems that are Atheist however one of which is called Objectivism but you are wrong Atheism is not a belief and number of said posts proves nothing.
@humanistheart Debating something logically makes it either provable or disprovable which means you don't need WEAK WEAK SAID BELIEF ...Belief is PROOF OF NOTHING...you are correct but you are incorrect about the logic being fallacy.
@Andastros1 at first it will feel depressing because it feels like you lost a friend but at some point when you get over that and you do it feels so much better to see the light of reality and to be a freethinker that there is nothing like it, and you appreciate the life you have even more. Take care you'll get there, you've obviously gave honest thought.
@theubermunch but how about a start with listening to John Lenons song "Imagine" Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try...etc etc no ...and no religion too...etc etc
@theubermunch no the world would be way better off without religion. Religion actually causes WAR, TERRORISM, SERIAL KILLERS, GANGS, I'M THIS GROUP YOUR THAT GROUP THINKING ETC ETC ETC. We'd have way more technology and care and respect not only our own lives but others as well. The subject would rake libraries of books to fully explain why that is so and unless you UNLEARN some things you'll never see it.
i liked your video until you posed that question presupposing god's existence. also it's pointless to say the world would be better off religion, because our world couldn't exist WITHOUT religion. everything that has ever happened was THE ONLY thing that could have possible happened, and religion is one of the most fundamental by-products of human existence.
@theubermunch no religion just causes problems... God doesn't exist there is no proof of his existence and no the bible, you having a connection with him or Hes everywhere im just not seeing it is not evidence of anything. The bible = passed down story for 40-50 years then written over and over by 100s of men until now details have been twisted stories morphed and it is completely inaccurate.
I've decided your videos are pretty depressing. I'm not going to argue for/against the vailidity of your arguments, but just to say that they're depressing. Essentially what I've taken from them are that humans have essentially no free will, and that religious insitutions and their memebers are morally corrupt and are a detriment to society, causing war, conflict, and the evil indoctrination and mind control of many millions throughout the world.
What if God/Goddess etc. knows exactly what you are going to do but decides not to know what you are going to do so (GOD) is surprised also by your great talents of choice. What if you are a Child of GOD and you know what you are going to do but have chosen to forget whhat you have done since knowing what you are going to do is knowing what you have done and you personally decide to live in this moment and be a human instead of the Goddess you are : )
What if God/Goddess etc. knows exactly what you are going to do but decides not to know what you are going to do so (GOD) is surprised also by your great talents of choice. What if you are a Child of GOD and you know what you are going to do but have chosen to forget whhat you have done since knowing what you are going to do is knowing what you have done and you personally decide to live in this moment and be a human instead of the Goddess you are : )
many peoples rebuttle would be that you can choose but you have to deal with the consequences so if you want to feel good do things in a certain way well in this reality we are bound by certain material laws such as particle attraction which binds us to reacting to situations in the way that we see as best and the factors that decide how you feel about a situation are purely how we were raised to feel about certain situations morals and such or did god just place more murderers in the same area
Are we generally influenced by our environments and genetic predispositions? Yes. Can we link the two into an exact prediction of human behavior? No, but a general statistical prediction is one we are already capable of.
There is another out... the butterfly effect. No matter how precise our knowledge of the specific circumstances preceding an event we want to try to predict (human behavior in this case) the random interactions that exist outside our measurements cause the outcome in complex systems to be completely unpredictable. So whether human behavior is deterministic or not, we will never be able to predict the outcomes reliably. Whether we have free will or not is irrelevent and unprovable.
@heronemisis123 In the theoretical sense this is true. However if the argument is applied to a supposedly all knowing creator being than no, free will couldn't exist, as everything would have been predetermined from the beginning.
NOT sure how I feel about this whole religion thing but.......... Hard determinism seems like its based on the physical world and I'm pretty sure in religion the spirit has a hand in the choices you make so.......lol
@lracuda76 ideally yes. But combining our statements as a whole. Me talking about their ideas and saying without bias. The ideas I'm talking about are formed from bias. I'm not simply talking about atheist. I'm talking about anti-theists. Those are the ones that will indoctrinate just as religious people do. Activest such as Richard Dawkins is the Best example.
@lracuda76 claiming "that there is no God" and creating philosophy in a way the says it's absolute truth, is dogma. They encourage fellow anti-theists attack other beliefs.
@lracuda76 Not true. Most are aggressive with their belief and try to tear down other believes that they oppose. Anyone who is an outspoken anti-thest rather than agnostic is usually a bigot who creates war with theists.
@webmaster2089 I said a lot of anti-theists. Not atheists. It's an observation. I'm not attacking the belief of anti-theism. I'm only pointing out the ones that attack theists with ad hominems and act like their belief is better. I'm not acting like my belief is better, I'm not attacking people with a hominem and opinions.
@nagzul ok, but that's nothing that couldn't be said about lots of people in any religious group.
most of us have no problem with theists believing what they want, it's when they try to impose those beliefs on others where the problems start. and that's waaaay too common not to be taken as a threat.
@nagzul Mostly the ladder option. However since the world would be better off without the belief in a god, I suppose you can put me in the first category as well. However, while it's lamentable and damaging to people, if they believe in a god and do not force said belief on others, I would leave them alone. But that's not happening. We have religious wars intersecting with politics, we have christians trying to force creationism into the classroom, we have parents raising their children
@nagzul to believe that if they do anything this god doesn't care for and can't find jesus they'll be tortured for all eternity which is a form of mental abuse. That must be ended.
@humanistheart The fact that you've posted 3 comments to defend it, proves it's a belief. :P Most of the doctrin for the belief usually trys to make people believe it isn't a belief. That's why they paint over by simply only limitting their description to atheist. A way to manipulate others to believe in it.
@nagzul So you're saying I shouldn't bother asking you for reason because you wont listen.
And I'm still waiting for what ever justification you had for that illogical suggestion that using 3 comments to prove that anti-theism is not a 'belief' someone shows it is? No defense of that moronic claim a?
@humanistheart "And I'm still waiting for what ever justification you had for that illogical suggestion" are you daft? how about quoting the rest of the comment. You didn't give me any thing that proves that anti-thests isn't a belief. 1 comment was a straw man, the other was arguing against me as if I said it was a religion, which is also a strawman. The last is just an empty claim.
@nagzul You still haven't given a justification for why you think making 3 comments proves me wrong. Since you've now made 5 or 6, by your logic, you've proved yourself wrong, lol.
And just calling something a strawman doesn't mean it is one, you have to support if with evidence and reasoning, the things you are avoiding.
@nagzul And there you go with false reasoning again. You say mine are fallacious, but you offer nothing to support it. Do you understand the concept of supporting your assertions at all?
@humanistheart I never said it proved you wrong, I sai that it proves that you have a belief. Because you're trying so hard to argue for it. With fallacies. I've already explained how they were fallacies.
@gogreen18 What about the Idea that God Knows every possible Choice you are going to make in your life. And sends people to influence your path? It keeps him knowing and gives way to free will does that work in your opinion?
If there was no free will then one/you would conclude that your videos, indeed your life, would be pointless because you could not possibly have any material affect on anything given the global predispositions born by all. Her actions fly in the face of her comments. Why post if there is no free will?
@quadbravo You can still have material effects on the world, but what you do can be explained by prior causes. It's not something that limits your behaviour but rather explains it.
@Steve7508 really? how do children born to the same family, from the same DNA pool in the same home wind up so completely and utterly different? The suggestion that all human actions can be explained by environment or experience is unequivocally, unadulterated BS. Free will exists. Defacto. If your suggestion were true then schools would produce people of the same talent and opinion. Never the case; and never will be.
@quadbravo Schools produce children with different talents and opinions largely due to the influence of the parents and the extended environment - especially in the first 5 years. They're not blank slates when they start school. It's the old nature and nurture thing. To reiterate: determinism suggests that behaviour can always be explained by prior causes, not that our lives have no meaning or that we're robots.
@Steve7508: I am aware of how determinism is defined. Thank you. I don't agree with it. Past experiences may help form a decision but it cannot predict it. "To reiterate": how do children born to the same family wind up so completely different. Brothers born 10 months apart; one loves sports; the other doesn't; one plays piano; the other doesn't. Determinism is a means for athiests deny God under the premise of no free-will and "suggest" a bogus link to the origin of the universe.
Lacy, how can something be finally kind of validated foryou; either it is or isn't... but I realize you're just groove talking so I'll shut up as I ... are you talking about crack babies? Relating this to what? It's called Illuminati/CIA hun... Speaking of which, this organization enlisted Sorceress Sybil Leak ina project known as MKOFTEN; did you say Simon LaVey? Do you know about Anton? Church of Satan=Illuminati/Directorate of CIA; MKOFTEN=investigation into Voodoo,Demonology, ESP, Occult...
Our free will is active in the present time. We are bound by time. God is not. From his viewpoint, He can see the final outcome. But His hope is that you will make a choice for Him in the present time. He put us on earth hoping that we would choose to love Him. He wants a real relationship from us, otherwise he would not have given us free will and made us like programmed robots. It's difficult for a time-bound human to understand an eternal God.
@miazcaor63 That doesnt make sense to me though, if God knows the final outcome, then He would've already known if we loved him or not in our choices...if He knows we're going to heaven, then He knows that we chose to love him, n if He knows we're going to hell, then He knows that we didnt choose to love him =/
@TeamNelena02 its not really religion, its philosophy. in america they cant talk about for ex christianity unless talking about the history of it, and it was fucking bloody
@kuss8623 if you weren't so close minded then maybe you'd understand why things happen. god has good intentions. then why do innocent people die every day. after you see what some people have seen its hard to believe in a greater power. and if you do you always watch your back because it's probably out to get you. i wont bash on your religion i just ask you to stop forcing that crap down other peoples throats. thank you and have a nice day... :)
Circumstances do shape the available options that the individual is presented with, but we still make our own choices based on the options available. Hard determinism fails simply because not ALL crack babies end up like you describe. Many may, perhaps even most, but not all.
Free will is simply a matter of perspective. With finite knowledge, free will exists, or is at least an illusion convincing enough to be treated as though it existed. With infinite knowledge, free will is meaningless.
Beyond free will, you are also getting into ancient nature vs nurture arguments. IMO, nature (genetics, life story, being born a crack baby, etc) shape who we are and how we respond to situations, but within an arena shaped by circumstance, the individual is still free to choose from a modified list of options.
For example, your twin analogy does underscore the importance on genetics on behavior, but it is important to note that not EVERY separated twin pair is ALWAYS as you describe
God puts us here to give us a chance to choose whether or not we are willing to live by his rules and this determines whether or not we are worthy for heaven. God gives us personality and free will. He knows the workings of the universe but I don't know that he knows what decision you a free individual will make. I'll do some research. Off the top of my dome if you look at the U.S. Constitution it says we have God given unalienable rights.
That is fluffy, feel-good nonsense. Free will is simply a matter of perspective. To an omniscient God, free will cannot exist. By definition, he knows the outcomes and choices of every situation that every human will ever be presented with, past, present, and future. Therefore he knows before conception which humans will be destined for heaven and which for hell.
Either he is playing a sick game, or he is not omniscient, but you can't be all-knowing and have free will. Its either-or
Laci you're so lost... you said you would never do what the crack baby did... thus you are making a choice not to do that. Yes it is his fault for being a piece of bacteria. Then you ask wouldn't we do the same thing in the same situation implying you would and then follow that up with a page saying "I would never do that". I love watching you put your foot in your mouth. Give yourself up and then you can become whole. Btw everyone is unique or has a signature...
@kuss8623 god gives you free will. but he knows what will happen... so he knows what i will do already. meaning i had no choice in it, either way it would happen? free will is bullshit. that giving yourself up bullshit, no. you're whole when you live your life and feel that you are in some way contributing to the world and are happy.
i never liked thinking that God already knows what your gunna do. it kinda creeped me out. i dont think god knows the future and i dont believe he is "all knowing" in that way.
I really like this topic. Most people seem bothered by it, it seems. I wonder if your perspective has changed any in the last couple years.
From a thinking point of view, it seems entirely cause and effect.
But, from an intuitive POV, it feels like there's more, for some reason.
As for God's omnipotence, I'd say God doesn't know the future because there is no future - it hasn't happened. I suspect that free will exists in the part of us that is God. That's the part of us that's free.
@BDJ2207 Yet to prove that the Christian mentality is composed of intolerant, close-minded individuals. ABSOLUTELY no proof that hell exists and yet you harass this girl telling her that you know without a doubt, she's going to hell.
mabey there are two options that god gives you the bad way and the good way and....as long as you pick the " good way" he knows what will happen but if you choose wrong he doesnt....
@CCmachine Um, intelligent people who listen to what she says, maybe, instead of mindlessly oggling her like a blue-balled adolescent? It's sexism like that that justifies niqabs, burkas, not letting females go anywhere without a male family member to supervise them, etc... just so men don't have to exercise a modicum of self control. You are pathetic.
@CCmachine Um, intelligent people who listen to what she says, maybe, instead of mindlessly oggling her like a blue-balled adolescent? It's sexism like that that justifies niqabs, burkas, not letting females go anywhere without a male family member to supervise them, etc... just so men don't have to exercise a modicum of self control. You are pathetic.
@hpqphpqp In this society it borders on recording videos to youtube with genitals in full view (where the majority of viewers are of the opposite sex). Can't you see the issue, however small it is? I find it annoying to see her cleavage all the time, it's distracting. I respect her choice to do so but think it's unnecessary and reduces her image as a serious intellectual. I unsubscribed.
@CCmachine If you don't want to look at her cleavage, try the eyes, like most people do when someone is talking to them. Cleavage is NOT genitals (look it up) Showing it does not reduce the serious content of her message, except for prudes and machos who, IMO, do not qualify as intellectuals and should go watch some real porn or read their holy books. Women wearing such clothing and showing cleavage is only an issue for sexists.
Why wouldn't I be watching her eyes? As a male, there's a large temptation to look there rather than focusing on her words. You should know what I mean, It's unprofessional to show enough to evoke that kind of behaviour in viewers. You wouldn't see that on something like a TV news broadcast.
Makes you wonder why only some female youtubers choose that camera angle, whilst others keep their head(& metaphorically their message) in center focus.
@CCmachine You continue to miss the point entirely; the camera angle and choice of clothing may reveal the speaker's wish to appear in an appealing light (the same way make up and lighting is applied to TV hosts), but does not diminish the message. The excuse of male sexual temptation is what has women wearing burkas and being accused for the rapes of which they are victim.
Am I the only heterosexual male whose brain is not automatically short-circuited by his dick? I don't think so.
@hpqphpqp Different societies set what "decent" is. Yeah, I obviously want women oppressed and aren't constructively criticising -_- ... Do you think well known intellectuals (Dawkins and the like) would still be taken seriously if they debated topless? Really? Their choice. Not indecent of them. Still irrelevant and unnecessary.
@CCmachine Um, intelligent people who listen to what she says, maybe, instead of mindlessly oggling her like a blue-balled adolescent? It's sexism like that that justifies niqabs, burkas, not letting females go anywhere without a male family member to supervise them, etc... just so men don't have to exercise a modicum of self control. You are pathetic.
Also, even if the negative emotion is there, don't show it. When I see someone acting bitterly toward a certain side it immediately discredits them. It suggests to me that the person already has a favored conclusion in mind and their mind focuses on arguments in support of the favored conclusion.
Hard determinism is a good theory, but those were very poor representative examples. They gave no reason to choose hard determinism over a theory which claims that external stimuli merely increase the probability of making a certain decision.
I happen to believe that free will and omniscience are not mutually exclusive. I'm not really sure how to explain it. I'm also not sure how to explain my views on whether we have free will or not. Though I don't believe that people can come to a "logical conclusion" about things like free will, as we do not know everything about the nature of the universe. We may be missing something, or certain things may be beyond our understanding that make our conclusions flawed.
what i want to know is, why you've all posted these deep comments and nobody's mentioned how beautiful and brilliant the speaker is, or is that kosher to mention??
I do believe in free will in some situations, as in we choose tea eat an apple or a banana; no imaginary man in the sky is going to force me to choose one.
But then there are situations in which free will does not has no use;
eg: sexuality, you can't choose to be gay or straight, you can choose to remain celibate or to have sex, and which person, but you can't choose which person you are attracted to...
I also chose "god does NOT know..." how can he if he doesn't exist?!
your are so right but god might have put you on earth even if he knew what you where going to do so we dont complain that we did not get a chance. just for the record i dont believe in god. but i try to look at things from different view points
"Free Will"...................Wiccan Ethic: "Do as ye will, and harm none". similar to a sense of Anarchism, but there is a spiritual balance preventing a woeful descent a socially destructive "No Rules" condition.
First of, let's put aside God and religion, I would like to use logic only.
Your example is so to say extreme. That crack baby "had one hell of a life.Damn. What if?
What if that some other baby was born in decent place, with both open minded parents? Whatever that kid does could be interpreted as determined. Also, it could be interpreted as free will/choice. It really up to individual judgment.
(I love 500 characters rule, my name and adress can barely fit ^^)
It's really our fault collectively as a society that there are criminals but the whole point of the legal system is to seperate them from the rest of us and instill fear of commiting crime, even though it's our fault. I was never taught the heaven/hell tradition but hypothetical God would need to send us here to present a valid case to us why we go where we go. It would be a silly trial if the evidence was something we could have done.
I've watched most of your videos and I really decided, "Okay, I will NOT be a 'tits or GTFO'" person. BUT...I have to say..this dark contrast definitely makes you look sexier. (Yes, yes..I watched the video and no I don't have a reply to what was said.)
I think people make "choices" all the time, however, I also think that all of our choices (and in fact our minds) are within the constricts of biology and environment. I think the popular definition of "choice" is alive and well, in the sense that we obviously make decisions all the time, but they're the product of thoughts, which are the product of a brain, which is the product of biology and environment. Yet, I still think people who break the law should be held accountable.
ok... i could imagine some guy listening to this monologue expecting a certain reward afterwards, nodding his head with understanding while looking at your tits.. but that is about it..
we do have free will quantum mechanics has proven it. The world is probability the future cannot be known because the future has no effect on the present, therefore we can never determine the future, this shows determinism is incorrect.
While I have been brought up Catholic, do believe that a God does exist, and believe that the God (that in my belief does exist) is omniscient and all-knowing, I do still tend to have my doubts; especially when I become contemplative and start to delve into the types of questioning and cognitive reasoning that you demonstrate in your videos.
That being said, I would like to put aside the fact that I believe in a God that is superficial and has never been tangibly seen.
So putting that fact aside, please allow me to continue and attempt to address a question that you brought up in this specific youtube video, entitled "Free Will and God." Essentially, if I interpreted correctly, one of your question was as follows: "If God already knows what is going to happen and what everyone is going to do, and by extension, he already knows where everyone is going to go (heaven or hell) as a result of what they do, then why does he bother with putting us on earth...
...instead of just putting us where we will ultimately go in the first place?
Now, this is a very valid question, and I struggle with it myself. With that being said, the only true rationalization that I can postulate or contrive is that in order for God to rightfully place us in heaven or hell, he must allow us to go through the processes of doing what already knows we are going to do. Essentially, if we know one day in advance that someone is going to commit a crime...
...it would be illogical to arrest that person and find him or her guilty of committing the crime before he or she has actually committed it, and if we did preemptively arrest that person, he or she would be able to argue that his or her imprisonment is unfair, and that ultimately, what we say that he or she would have done had we not imprisoned him or her would have never happened. By extension, the imprisoned person would also be able to argue that since he or she was preemptively imprisoned
based on what he or she was allegedly going to do, his or her argument would also be that his or her opportunity to commit the crime has ultimately passed and been nullified. As such, he or she never committed the crime (nor has the capability of committing that exact crime in the future), and therefore, he or she is not guilty of any crime and should be released from imprisonment.
Essentially, I think the same reasoning holds true for God; he can't reward or punish us with heaven or hell...
DRAMA QUEEN
Gelnprato 11 months ago
Hard determinism is based on pure Newtonian mechanics. Quantum mechanics calls determinism into question because at the atomic and sub atomic level, the cause and effect can not be distinguished from each other. Since the human brain is a quantum mechanical machine we are left to wonder if determinism as we know it even applies. The answers to these types of questions will likely have answers in the next 100 years of research.
experimentx1100 11 months ago
It is impossible to believe in Hard Determinism in any form and to believe in morality. For morality only pertains to that which we have a choice over. It's a mockery of justice to say we don't have choice of it. If we are naturally greedy than greed cannot be in the realm of morality for if that tendency is by choice it is not by nature and if it is by birth than it cannot be called immoral
SagesOfSeraphim 11 months ago
Subjective reality makes me personally believe that free will exists. So for me since morality is subjective then pretty much everything that is not objective would obviously fall into subjective. So her statements are pretty much subjective making anyone choose or not choose to believe her. As far as choosing, Nature vs. Nurture, The things that have happened to us affect how we handle a situation which when we handle it is what we thought would be the right way which is subjective.
Cockeye1987 11 months ago
If we are from another planet, which is now obvious based on all these new findings, these types of problems your talking about are probably not possible on our home planet. It adds reason to understand how we don't fit on this planet. Of course we wouldn't know this, we have never been anywhere else. It was years of me looking at things to realize this. We are a virus on this planet, its that simple. The screwed up things we do, and deal with are part of that reason.
itsthetooth 11 months ago
Your right. It's not the crack babys fault. Early exposure, that wasn't his choice, forced him. It's probably why we try to be strict and do right when it comes to babys and children, they are delicate in many ways. If free will is wrong, why did our creator allow it. Christianity was murdered in 1999 with the human genome. But far more scarrier things were discovered as well, and they can't be ignored, so scientists are scared. Humans are 200,000, so we are just missing a few years.
itsthetooth 11 months ago
None of this matters. What matters is if you are showing up with an open heart and caring for others
TheMathews176 11 months ago
If hard determinism is true, the illusion of decision is really strong and complex, Occam's razor would suggest decisions are true and hard determinism is wrong if based on human experience, but truth can be counterintuitive.
In the end it doesn't really matter if decision is an illusion or not, it still is our reality. Criminal acts should still be punished , specially considering that, while there are norms, positive exceptions do exist and we should strive for them, even if all is illusion.
ArmandoXIII 1 year ago
I like the idea of hard determinism. It's just too superficially explained in this video. Hard determinism unfolds itself in the realm of the uncuttable. All there really is are movements of elementary particles that are governed solely by physical laws and are set in a multidimensional space. These laws are the real causes which bring effect. That effect is exclusively a change in the constellation of these fundamental ingredients. Environment/biology are just human concepts veiling this truth.
Rizeka 1 year ago
@theocratickingdom30 What "other hill"?
And I completly agree with Laci, if go knows what we are going to do, why would he put us on earth to go through all this pain and shit. If god knew, why wouldn't he just be "all loving" and put us all in heaven (or hell if your into that kind of stuff). And what if you take things that run in the family, you dont choose that, you're already predisposed to it.
werewolflover17 1 year ago
I don't know who she is talking to. It certainly isn't reformed Christians of the historic faith. We're over on the other hill.
theocratickingdom30 1 year ago
Penrose's Orch-OR mind theory + the quantum Zeno effect = free will. So Of course we have free will: watch?v=jvGTrrwYTCQ
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
Hard Determinism is Unstoppable !
Little Pattern joke :
HD - High Definition - we look into clear detail.
HD - Hard Determinism - we look into clear detail and see no free will.
Yamakoto120 1 year ago
i know your furter to and more you eat sleep bread drink intill you die . isnt thath your futer ?
1UL1U 1 year ago
Or if God...doesn't exist.
zofspade 1 year ago
Her argument is essentially genetic determinism. This isn't the argument I would go with. I personally do believe in free will. And I know that religion is it's greatest enemy. God either A. Doesn't exist B. Doesn't care C. Is a sadistic asshole.
C is true if the bible is correct.
Lathox 1 year ago
plft..
-
you said hard determinism, then you said choose.
Sorry.
InaneRex 1 year ago
@InaneRex even with hard determinism, we definitely have the illusion, or perhaps, even a fact of decision. (with the second line of logic, you do have to change your definition of decision from the end result of decision to the deliberation process.)
WillGo7 1 year ago
whoa! are you the same girl who has that sex channel?? lol
rebelsouljaz 1 year ago
God gave us all free will, He doesn't force anyone to believe in Him. "In Christ there is TRUE freedom." Romans 8:1. I went from being addicted to drugs as well as overly concerned with what others thought of me--when I discovered who God was by reading His word, He gave me a true peace, love, freedom, happiness, and fulfillment like never before!
liveinlove1ify 1 year ago
@liveinlove1ify But you think that you yourself chose Jesus in that moment? bc God says that the Father draws those that come to Christ Isa 65:1, John 6:44, 6:65.....There is a difference between force and free will, trust me. God doesnt force but that doesnt mean he doesnt have his plan under control and its called influenced will not free will. Nothing can be free will, we are all influenced by everything around us, rain/friends, etc....
MrsRosengard 1 year ago
boobs...brains... boobs... brains
DAMN IT! i just can't decide what i like better!
De4sher 1 year ago
God ways are not our ways. The human mind is veryl limited when compared to God's. Why even give yourself a headache like this?
dougconley 1 year ago
@dougconley if god created all, is Omniscient and is omnipotent, is he not eventually responsible for everything that happens in the world, men can be held responsible for thier pets actions, and we did not create our pets in that way and we never really know how they are going to react to any kind of situation... "god" did know about the things lucifer and the talking snake were going to do (mess up his creation" before he created them... and still he did, was this a result of odd?
henkjansmazaag 1 year ago
@henkjansmazaag Your confused. God is omniscient but he does not force us to sin, yes he made us sinning creatures but he only influnces our decisions and he doesnt have to force us to sin bc we will do it if in the correct situation is. Make sense to you? He is responisble in the end but we will still be judged for sinning, but only so that we will all be saved by God and learn righteousness throiugh his judgements, judgements arent bad but glorious!
MrsRosengard 1 year ago
Argue your limitations and sure enough, they are yours.
These silly lack of free will ideas completely lack common sense.
jonesgerard 1 year ago
@jonesgerard Good job backing that up...
That was sarcasm.
zofspade 1 year ago
@aussielad71, sure and while I do that you can continue getting stabbed in the ass, by your fathers 4 inch cock! Actually, why don't you find a big black man with an 8 incher? Why do things by half? Maybe you two will evolve a kid that way. He'll still be a dipshit like you.........but hey, atleast he'll be able to dunk a basketball!
FalconFlyerX 1 year ago
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When will this pathetic excuse of a race known as humanity learn to stop bickering with each other over topics that are and will always be opinion based. The bottom line is that when it comes to religion, there is no right and there is no wrong. It will be or not be whatever the individual chooses. If Christianity, Satanism, or Atheism is the way a person chooses to interpet religion, who are you to call them stupid for it? We need to learn to look past our opinions, they make us barbaric.
TheCrossWeBear 1 year ago
It's a nice idea (or excuse...) but I disagree... sure, you have no control over the events that make up your past... but given those circumstances you have the choice to either make something of it, or give up and pretty much lead a worthless existence. Of course, this is harder for some than others. Some have everything cut out for them, most don't. Some have more motivation (probably a chemical thing in your brain) than others... some have more support than others. You always have a choice.
VahnsGrl244 1 year ago
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aussielad71 1 year ago
This methodology works well in an established, controlled environment when applying scientific theory. Unfortunately, there's the ever present foil to this methodology defined (in scientific terms) as the 'nuissance variable'. This variable ALWAYS takes 'statistical, factual proof' and makes an utter fool of it - that 'nuissance variable' and the innumerable variations that is constantly producing is called...
...life.
M.D.
mdlittle5466 1 year ago
Why did god put us on Earth if he is all knowing? To make us realize our mistakes or acomplishments which explains why we are in Heaven or Hell.
R4PTORZWIN 1 year ago
haha i remember thinking like this. drove me insane. everybody should just TRY to enjoy their lives while they have it. another thing-
free will is factored into determinism, and does not contradict it. free will exists, but only in our minds. b4 u go saying that means its not real-our minds are whats making life altering decisions.
roll a dice (cause) you get a number (effect) but you dont know what that number is gonna be. determinism? not exactly :) there is order in chaos.
redgibson1 1 year ago
hm... people making snap judgments based upon complete naiveté. sounds like american culture to me! (see: people actually VOTED for Bush Jr. They really did. Although, I miss him... that guy was hilarious. He had little effect on my life, besides HILARIOUS clips making fun of him... geez, what a 'tard. President of the United States, or stand-up comedian... you decide.)
ZRadach 1 year ago
FFS!!! This chick is annoying! Your retarded valley girl voice makes me want to stab myself on the ear with a pencil. And your mouth is gigantic! Your mom must have banged the cookie monster!
FalconFlyerX 1 year ago
@FalconFlyerX please stab yourself in both ears why do things by half
aussielad71 1 year ago
the doctrine of free will is a lie. if you wish to know more about the truth message me
hoogys 1 year ago
One argument often levelled against determinism is that, "if we have no free will, then we cannot be held responsible and we have to let killers go free, etc." But this is not an argument, this is just "I don't like that scenario, so it cannot be true". And the argument is wrong, at any rate:
If a storm blows a piece of debris through a window (breaking it, of course), the debris or the storm is "to blame" for the broken glass, but the window is what needs fixing all the same.
Gilmaris 1 year ago
If god is all knowing he would know even what himself is gonna do and thus doesn't even give him a choice to do anything meaning another higher power than him must've decided what's gonna happen = Irrational, illogical... god cannot be all knowing. If he's all powerful, can god create a stone so heavy he can't lift it? Can he create the stone heavier than he can lift then he's not all powerful because he can't lift it, if he can't.. well.. logic speaks for itself.. God = irrational
xxRockst4r 1 year ago
The future is the future and the past is the past, BUT it doesn't seem possible that one could predict the future with a hundred percent accuracy because the predictor would have to Know all the knowledge in the universe which doesn't seem likely(because knowledge is infinite)(name all the numbers in existence if you don't think so). This doesn't mean that the predictor can't be accurate, but it does mean that the predictor is limited to only saying what is likely to occur.
ClintSevilla 1 year ago
I think the common religious opinion is that God gave humans free will. However, since she is supposedly omnipotent, I imagine she'd also have the power to see the future. If I believed in a God, I'd probably imagine it as a person holding a set of cards but promising not to look at them.
chebob2009 1 year ago
Dumb teen age twit argument for "Determinism".
Victorprossart1 1 year ago
@gogreen18 the Rock, Paper, Scissors examples are just endless.
FastEddieSRT 1 year ago
@gogreen18 if all knowing why create evil? Only to punish us to be forever tortured yet you love us? If all knowing then why us God so REACTIONARY ...this happened so God reacted then that happens REACT...If you knew it could be PREVENTED and if not PREVENTED ...can you not STOP IT ...If you can and don't then how are you ALL LOVING? LOL ...Just not possible.
FastEddieSRT 1 year ago
@gogreen18 how can an All loving creature create evil? If this all loving being did not create evil then if he were all loving he would stop it and if he doesn't stop it then he is either not powerful enough to do so or is not all loving and the combos are endless LOL.
FastEddieSRT 1 year ago
@gogreen18 Hi Laci :) I can't drag God into being like you I no longer believe in it. But I call that the Rock, Paper, Scissors argument...no being can be ALL LOVING, ALL KNOWING, and ALL POWERFUL ALL in one...one always cancels out the other 2.
FastEddieSRT 1 year ago
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Mankind was subjugated to slavery by it's original forefather, Adam. People are therefore born into this world enslaved to the desires of their hearts. However, God placed within each person born, the desire to come to Him. If we ignore or resist this desire or if we feed those desires that are opposed to seeking Him, we continue blind and dead. Jesus said "I come to give you life" and "I come so you can see". Jesus, Himself, is the Way. Come to Him, right were you are and you will be freed.
donsteigerwald 1 year ago
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@nagzul Atheism is not a belief it is simply a disbelief for lack of proof for certain said beliefs and faiths. There are wonderful belief systems that are Atheist however one of which is called Objectivism but you are wrong Atheism is not a belief and number of said posts proves nothing.
FastEddieSRT 1 year ago
@nagzul Atheism is not a belief it is simply a disbelief for lack of proof for certain said beliefs and faiths. There are wonderful belief systems that are Atheist however one of which is called Objectivism but you are wrong Atheism is not a belief and number of said posts proves nothing.
FastEddieSRT 1 year ago
@humanistheart Debating something logically makes it either provable or disprovable which means you don't need WEAK WEAK SAID BELIEF ...Belief is PROOF OF NOTHING...you are correct but you are incorrect about the logic being fallacy.
FastEddieSRT 1 year ago
@Andastros1 at first it will feel depressing because it feels like you lost a friend but at some point when you get over that and you do it feels so much better to see the light of reality and to be a freethinker that there is nothing like it, and you appreciate the life you have even more. Take care you'll get there, you've obviously gave honest thought.
FastEddieSRT 1 year ago
@theubermunch but how about a start with listening to John Lenons song "Imagine" Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try...etc etc no ...and no religion too...etc etc
FastEddieSRT 1 year ago
@theubermunch no the world would be way better off without religion. Religion actually causes WAR, TERRORISM, SERIAL KILLERS, GANGS, I'M THIS GROUP YOUR THAT GROUP THINKING ETC ETC ETC. We'd have way more technology and care and respect not only our own lives but others as well. The subject would rake libraries of books to fully explain why that is so and unless you UNLEARN some things you'll never see it.
FastEddieSRT 1 year ago
i liked your video until you posed that question presupposing god's existence. also it's pointless to say the world would be better off religion, because our world couldn't exist WITHOUT religion. everything that has ever happened was THE ONLY thing that could have possible happened, and religion is one of the most fundamental by-products of human existence.
theubermunch 1 year ago
@theubermunch no religion just causes problems... God doesn't exist there is no proof of his existence and no the bible, you having a connection with him or Hes everywhere im just not seeing it is not evidence of anything. The bible = passed down story for 40-50 years then written over and over by 100s of men until now details have been twisted stories morphed and it is completely inaccurate.
thepeedower 1 year ago
I've decided your videos are pretty depressing. I'm not going to argue for/against the vailidity of your arguments, but just to say that they're depressing. Essentially what I've taken from them are that humans have essentially no free will, and that religious insitutions and their memebers are morally corrupt and are a detriment to society, causing war, conflict, and the evil indoctrination and mind control of many millions throughout the world.
Andrastos1 1 year ago
What if God/Goddess etc. knows exactly what you are going to do but decides not to know what you are going to do so (GOD) is surprised also by your great talents of choice. What if you are a Child of GOD and you know what you are going to do but have chosen to forget whhat you have done since knowing what you are going to do is knowing what you have done and you personally decide to live in this moment and be a human instead of the Goddess you are : )
By the way I Love chicks who think
SuperChristopherZ 1 year ago
What if God/Goddess etc. knows exactly what you are going to do but decides not to know what you are going to do so (GOD) is surprised also by your great talents of choice. What if you are a Child of GOD and you know what you are going to do but have chosen to forget whhat you have done since knowing what you are going to do is knowing what you have done and you personally decide to live in this moment and be a human instead of the Goddess you are : )
SuperChristopherZ 1 year ago
Indeed, free will is impossible in the abrahamic concept. Their piece of shit god structure precludes it.
humanistheart 1 year ago
Omniscience is a very hard concept for the small human mind to grasp, is it not?
IFoundTheInternet 1 year ago
He knows, but he wants us to have free will to do what want. I mostly believe in cause and effect. But I also believe that they can make a choice.
AshelyJ26 1 year ago
many peoples rebuttle would be that you can choose but you have to deal with the consequences so if you want to feel good do things in a certain way well in this reality we are bound by certain material laws such as particle attraction which binds us to reacting to situations in the way that we see as best and the factors that decide how you feel about a situation are purely how we were raised to feel about certain situations morals and such or did god just place more murderers in the same area
jaa620spencer 1 year ago
Are we generally influenced by our environments and genetic predispositions? Yes. Can we link the two into an exact prediction of human behavior? No, but a general statistical prediction is one we are already capable of.
heronemisis123 1 year ago
There is another out... the butterfly effect. No matter how precise our knowledge of the specific circumstances preceding an event we want to try to predict (human behavior in this case) the random interactions that exist outside our measurements cause the outcome in complex systems to be completely unpredictable. So whether human behavior is deterministic or not, we will never be able to predict the outcomes reliably. Whether we have free will or not is irrelevent and unprovable.
heronemisis123 1 year ago
@heronemisis123 In the theoretical sense this is true. However if the argument is applied to a supposedly all knowing creator being than no, free will couldn't exist, as everything would have been predetermined from the beginning.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@heronemisis123 it's relevant in refuting claims that christians make about god. i think that makes it a pretty worthy subject of study.
webmaster2089 1 year ago
NOT sure how I feel about this whole religion thing but.......... Hard determinism seems like its based on the physical world and I'm pretty sure in religion the spirit has a hand in the choices you make so.......lol
iron13man 1 year ago
Free will verses justice. What will atheists think up next. Just because you have freedom, dosn't mean you don't have consequences.
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul "What will atheists think up next"
Lots of things because their minds are open and they interpret new information without bias.
lracuda76 1 year ago
@lracuda76 "without bias." that's laughable.
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul Ideally it's without bias, though it doesn't always work that way, atheists are people too.
lracuda76 1 year ago
@lracuda76 ideally yes. But combining our statements as a whole. Me talking about their ideas and saying without bias. The ideas I'm talking about are formed from bias. I'm not simply talking about atheist. I'm talking about anti-theists. Those are the ones that will indoctrinate just as religious people do. Activest such as Richard Dawkins is the Best example.
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul There isn't a dogma with anti-theism, just facts, yes they do have an agenda, but it is based on what is observable.
lracuda76 1 year ago
@lracuda76 claiming "that there is no God" and creating philosophy in a way the says it's absolute truth, is dogma. They encourage fellow anti-theists attack other beliefs.
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul Most say that there "probably" is no god", they don't keep repeating the probably as it makes them look indecisive.
As for attacking other beliefs it's often just a case of expressing an alternate viewpoint that is based on what we know of reality.
lracuda76 1 year ago
@lracuda76 Not true. Most are aggressive with their belief and try to tear down other believes that they oppose. Anyone who is an outspoken anti-thest rather than agnostic is usually a bigot who creates war with theists.
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul Most aren't aggressive, some are, some aren't.
I myself am on the aggressive side but only if people, flaunt their beliefs.
If people keep their beliefs to themselves I tend to do the same.
lracuda76 1 year ago
@nagzul you seem pretty outspoken and inflammatory yourself.
webmaster2089 1 year ago
@webmaster2089 I'm out spoken, maybe agressive. But not with my belief.
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul but you are with your belief that atheists are outspoken and agressive.
you can't complain against someone for complaining against someone, that's just hypocritical.
and there's another video that she did that explains why atheists care so much, i'd reccomend it.
webmaster2089 1 year ago
@webmaster2089 I said a lot of anti-theists. Not atheists. It's an observation. I'm not attacking the belief of anti-theism. I'm only pointing out the ones that attack theists with ad hominems and act like their belief is better. I'm not acting like my belief is better, I'm not attacking people with a hominem and opinions.
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul ok, but that's nothing that couldn't be said about lots of people in any religious group.
most of us have no problem with theists believing what they want, it's when they try to impose those beliefs on others where the problems start. and that's waaaay too common not to be taken as a threat.
webmaster2089 1 year ago
@webmaster2089 Which is what I'm saying.
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul There is no "anti-theism belief"
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart Are you against the belief in a God? Or do you simply, only lack the belief in a God?
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul Mostly the ladder option. However since the world would be better off without the belief in a god, I suppose you can put me in the first category as well. However, while it's lamentable and damaging to people, if they believe in a god and do not force said belief on others, I would leave them alone. But that's not happening. We have religious wars intersecting with politics, we have christians trying to force creationism into the classroom, we have parents raising their children
humanistheart 1 year ago
@nagzul to believe that if they do anything this god doesn't care for and can't find jesus they'll be tortured for all eternity which is a form of mental abuse. That must be ended.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart The fact that you've posted 3 comments to defend it, proves it's a belief. :P Most of the doctrin for the belief usually trys to make people believe it isn't a belief. That's why they paint over by simply only limitting their description to atheist. A way to manipulate others to believe in it.
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul "The fact that you've posted 3 comments to defend it, proves it's a belief. "
That's an amazingly stupid comment. What part of that makes sense in your, for lack of a better term, mind?
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart A loud bigot will never understand or use an ear on an opposing argument.
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul So you're saying I shouldn't bother asking you for reason because you wont listen.
And I'm still waiting for what ever justification you had for that illogical suggestion that using 3 comments to prove that anti-theism is not a 'belief' someone shows it is? No defense of that moronic claim a?
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart "And I'm still waiting for what ever justification you had for that illogical suggestion" are you daft? how about quoting the rest of the comment. You didn't give me any thing that proves that anti-thests isn't a belief. 1 comment was a straw man, the other was arguing against me as if I said it was a religion, which is also a strawman. The last is just an empty claim.
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul You still haven't given a justification for why you think making 3 comments proves me wrong. Since you've now made 5 or 6, by your logic, you've proved yourself wrong, lol.
And just calling something a strawman doesn't mean it is one, you have to support if with evidence and reasoning, the things you are avoiding.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart The fact that you replied to my very small single comment with three fallacious arguments helps me point out what I'm saying.
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul And there you go with false reasoning again. You say mine are fallacious, but you offer nothing to support it. Do you understand the concept of supporting your assertions at all?
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart I never said it proved you wrong, I sai that it proves that you have a belief. Because you're trying so hard to argue for it. With fallacies. I've already explained how they were fallacies.
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul Debating something logically does not make it a belief. You're argument in the fallacy.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart Debating something with strawman logic does make it your belief.
nagzul 1 year ago
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@humanistheart Debating something with strawman logic does make it your belief.
nagzul 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@humanistheart Debating something with strawman logic does make it your belief.
nagzul 1 year ago
@humanistheart Debating something with strawman logic does make it your belief.
nagzul 1 year ago
@humanistheart Debating something with strawman logic does make it your belief.
nagzul 1 year ago
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@humanistheart Debating something with strawman logic does make it your belief.
nagzul 1 year ago
@nagzul Being anti-theist, as I said though, is not a belief, it's a position, one based in reality and the facts.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@gogreen18 What about the Idea that God Knows every possible Choice you are going to make in your life. And sends people to influence your path? It keeps him knowing and gives way to free will does that work in your opinion?
NightHawkBomber001 1 year ago
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There is no point. There is nothing
zerokenyon 1 year ago
If there was no free will then one/you would conclude that your videos, indeed your life, would be pointless because you could not possibly have any material affect on anything given the global predispositions born by all. Her actions fly in the face of her comments. Why post if there is no free will?
quadbravo 1 year ago
@quadbravo You can still have material effects on the world, but what you do can be explained by prior causes. It's not something that limits your behaviour but rather explains it.
Steve7508 1 year ago
@Steve7508 really? how do children born to the same family, from the same DNA pool in the same home wind up so completely and utterly different? The suggestion that all human actions can be explained by environment or experience is unequivocally, unadulterated BS. Free will exists. Defacto. If your suggestion were true then schools would produce people of the same talent and opinion. Never the case; and never will be.
quadbravo 1 year ago
@quadbravo Schools produce children with different talents and opinions largely due to the influence of the parents and the extended environment - especially in the first 5 years. They're not blank slates when they start school. It's the old nature and nurture thing. To reiterate: determinism suggests that behaviour can always be explained by prior causes, not that our lives have no meaning or that we're robots.
Steve7508 1 year ago
@Steve7508: I am aware of how determinism is defined. Thank you. I don't agree with it. Past experiences may help form a decision but it cannot predict it. "To reiterate": how do children born to the same family wind up so completely different. Brothers born 10 months apart; one loves sports; the other doesn't; one plays piano; the other doesn't. Determinism is a means for athiests deny God under the premise of no free-will and "suggest" a bogus link to the origin of the universe.
quadbravo 1 year ago
Lacy, how can something be finally kind of validated foryou; either it is or isn't... but I realize you're just groove talking so I'll shut up as I ... are you talking about crack babies? Relating this to what? It's called Illuminati/CIA hun... Speaking of which, this organization enlisted Sorceress Sybil Leak ina project known as MKOFTEN; did you say Simon LaVey? Do you know about Anton? Church of Satan=Illuminati/Directorate of CIA; MKOFTEN=investigation into Voodoo,Demonology, ESP, Occult...
mixopolis1 1 year ago
Our free will is active in the present time. We are bound by time. God is not. From his viewpoint, He can see the final outcome. But His hope is that you will make a choice for Him in the present time. He put us on earth hoping that we would choose to love Him. He wants a real relationship from us, otherwise he would not have given us free will and made us like programmed robots. It's difficult for a time-bound human to understand an eternal God.
miazcaor63 1 year ago
@miazcaor63 That doesnt make sense to me though, if God knows the final outcome, then He would've already known if we loved him or not in our choices...if He knows we're going to heaven, then He knows that we chose to love him, n if He knows we're going to hell, then He knows that we didnt choose to love him =/
Ironhide3013 1 year ago
@TeamNelena02 its not really religion, its philosophy. in america they cant talk about for ex christianity unless talking about the history of it, and it was fucking bloody
patrickledford420 1 year ago
@kuss8623 if you weren't so close minded then maybe you'd understand why things happen. god has good intentions. then why do innocent people die every day. after you see what some people have seen its hard to believe in a greater power. and if you do you always watch your back because it's probably out to get you. i wont bash on your religion i just ask you to stop forcing that crap down other peoples throats. thank you and have a nice day... :)
monkymaster1 1 year ago
Circumstances do shape the available options that the individual is presented with, but we still make our own choices based on the options available. Hard determinism fails simply because not ALL crack babies end up like you describe. Many may, perhaps even most, but not all.
Free will is simply a matter of perspective. With finite knowledge, free will exists, or is at least an illusion convincing enough to be treated as though it existed. With infinite knowledge, free will is meaningless.
entyrion 1 year ago
@entyrion
Beyond free will, you are also getting into ancient nature vs nurture arguments. IMO, nature (genetics, life story, being born a crack baby, etc) shape who we are and how we respond to situations, but within an arena shaped by circumstance, the individual is still free to choose from a modified list of options.
For example, your twin analogy does underscore the importance on genetics on behavior, but it is important to note that not EVERY separated twin pair is ALWAYS as you describe
entyrion 1 year ago
Yeah, but have you heard the song Crack Babies by Urge Overkill. If you are cool you have.
jockojonson17 1 year ago
I prefer Soft Determinism. We have choices, but circumstances often limit those choices.
ReverendAnimal01 1 year ago
one is to choose. if he wants us to choose I don't think he wants to know our choice.
kuss8623 1 year ago
God puts us here to give us a chance to choose whether or not we are willing to live by his rules and this determines whether or not we are worthy for heaven. God gives us personality and free will. He knows the workings of the universe but I don't know that he knows what decision you a free individual will make. I'll do some research. Off the top of my dome if you look at the U.S. Constitution it says we have God given unalienable rights.
kuss8623 1 year ago
@kuss8623 No it doesn't.
ReverendAnimal01 1 year ago
@ReverendAnimal01 regardless we have God given rights
kuss8623 1 year ago
@kuss8623 No, we don't. If your God existed, and he gave us rights, then we wouldn't need our rights codified.
ReverendAnimal01 1 year ago
@kuss8623
That is fluffy, feel-good nonsense. Free will is simply a matter of perspective. To an omniscient God, free will cannot exist. By definition, he knows the outcomes and choices of every situation that every human will ever be presented with, past, present, and future. Therefore he knows before conception which humans will be destined for heaven and which for hell.
Either he is playing a sick game, or he is not omniscient, but you can't be all-knowing and have free will. Its either-or
entyrion 1 year ago
Laci you're so lost... you said you would never do what the crack baby did... thus you are making a choice not to do that. Yes it is his fault for being a piece of bacteria. Then you ask wouldn't we do the same thing in the same situation implying you would and then follow that up with a page saying "I would never do that". I love watching you put your foot in your mouth. Give yourself up and then you can become whole. Btw everyone is unique or has a signature...
kuss8623 1 year ago
@kuss8623 god gives you free will. but he knows what will happen... so he knows what i will do already. meaning i had no choice in it, either way it would happen? free will is bullshit. that giving yourself up bullshit, no. you're whole when you live your life and feel that you are in some way contributing to the world and are happy.
monkymaster1 1 year ago
i never liked thinking that God already knows what your gunna do. it kinda creeped me out. i dont think god knows the future and i dont believe he is "all knowing" in that way.
Kitttypurry 1 year ago
I really like this topic. Most people seem bothered by it, it seems. I wonder if your perspective has changed any in the last couple years.
From a thinking point of view, it seems entirely cause and effect.
But, from an intuitive POV, it feels like there's more, for some reason.
As for God's omnipotence, I'd say God doesn't know the future because there is no future - it hasn't happened. I suspect that free will exists in the part of us that is God. That's the part of us that's free.
TheGiantRobot 1 year ago
Intelligence is not about what you know, but what you ask.
evilterr 1 year ago
Nice music :) But good point.
M6ks77 1 year ago
This girl doesn't know the difference between free will and free choice. She likes to expose her ignorance in all her videos.
Airlightf 1 year ago
@Airlightf and you did it in one post thats very impressive
TheMaximusmacro 1 year ago
@TheMaximusmacro
Hahaha!
TheGiantRobot 1 year ago
exhibitionist ? go out and search some friends
fuckingbullshyt 1 year ago
I have a sad feeling that this girl will soon be reading the words, "Abanbon all hope ye who enter this place"
BDJ2207 1 year ago
@BDJ2207 Yet to prove that the Christian mentality is composed of intolerant, close-minded individuals. ABSOLUTELY no proof that hell exists and yet you harass this girl telling her that you know without a doubt, she's going to hell.
DeathTakesAToll 1 year ago
mabey there are two options that god gives you the bad way and the good way and....as long as you pick the " good way" he knows what will happen but if you choose wrong he doesnt....
invaderpink 1 year ago
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@CCmachine Um, intelligent people who listen to what she says, maybe, instead of mindlessly oggling her like a blue-balled adolescent? It's sexism like that that justifies niqabs, burkas, not letting females go anywhere without a male family member to supervise them, etc... just so men don't have to exercise a modicum of self control. You are pathetic.
hpqphpqp 1 year ago
You always record with your cleavage in full view. You know that attracts attention. Who do you expect will take you seriously?
CCmachine 1 year ago
@CCmachine Um, intelligent people who listen to what she says, maybe, instead of mindlessly oggling her like a blue-balled adolescent? It's sexism like that that justifies niqabs, burkas, not letting females go anywhere without a male family member to supervise them, etc... just so men don't have to exercise a modicum of self control. You are pathetic.
hpqphpqp 1 year ago
@hpqphpqp In this society it borders on recording videos to youtube with genitals in full view (where the majority of viewers are of the opposite sex). Can't you see the issue, however small it is? I find it annoying to see her cleavage all the time, it's distracting. I respect her choice to do so but think it's unnecessary and reduces her image as a serious intellectual. I unsubscribed.
CCmachine 1 year ago
@CCmachine If you don't want to look at her cleavage, try the eyes, like most people do when someone is talking to them. Cleavage is NOT genitals (look it up) Showing it does not reduce the serious content of her message, except for prudes and machos who, IMO, do not qualify as intellectuals and should go watch some real porn or read their holy books. Women wearing such clothing and showing cleavage is only an issue for sexists.
hpqphpqp 1 year ago
@hpqphpqp "Borders on" "is NOT", I agree.
Why wouldn't I be watching her eyes? As a male, there's a large temptation to look there rather than focusing on her words. You should know what I mean, It's unprofessional to show enough to evoke that kind of behaviour in viewers. You wouldn't see that on something like a TV news broadcast.
Makes you wonder why only some female youtubers choose that camera angle, whilst others keep their head(& metaphorically their message) in center focus.
CCmachine 1 year ago
@CCmachine You continue to miss the point entirely; the camera angle and choice of clothing may reveal the speaker's wish to appear in an appealing light (the same way make up and lighting is applied to TV hosts), but does not diminish the message. The excuse of male sexual temptation is what has women wearing burkas and being accused for the rapes of which they are victim.
Am I the only heterosexual male whose brain is not automatically short-circuited by his dick? I don't think so.
hpqphpqp 1 year ago
@hpqphpqp Different societies set what "decent" is. Yeah, I obviously want women oppressed and aren't constructively criticising -_- ... Do you think well known intellectuals (Dawkins and the like) would still be taken seriously if they debated topless? Really? Their choice. Not indecent of them. Still irrelevant and unnecessary.
CCmachine 1 year ago
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@CCmachine Um, intelligent people who listen to what she says, maybe, instead of mindlessly oggling her like a blue-balled adolescent? It's sexism like that that justifies niqabs, burkas, not letting females go anywhere without a male family member to supervise them, etc... just so men don't have to exercise a modicum of self control. You are pathetic.
hpqphpqp 1 year ago
Also, even if the negative emotion is there, don't show it. When I see someone acting bitterly toward a certain side it immediately discredits them. It suggests to me that the person already has a favored conclusion in mind and their mind focuses on arguments in support of the favored conclusion.
powderdd 1 year ago
Hard determinism is a good theory, but those were very poor representative examples. They gave no reason to choose hard determinism over a theory which claims that external stimuli merely increase the probability of making a certain decision.
powderdd 1 year ago
I happen to believe that free will and omniscience are not mutually exclusive. I'm not really sure how to explain it. I'm also not sure how to explain my views on whether we have free will or not. Though I don't believe that people can come to a "logical conclusion" about things like free will, as we do not know everything about the nature of the universe. We may be missing something, or certain things may be beyond our understanding that make our conclusions flawed.
I don'tbelieve ingod though
Person012345 1 year ago
what i want to know is, why you've all posted these deep comments and nobody's mentioned how beautiful and brilliant the speaker is, or is that kosher to mention??
hankywiz12 1 year ago
I do believe in free will in some situations, as in we choose tea eat an apple or a banana; no imaginary man in the sky is going to force me to choose one.
But then there are situations in which free will does not has no use;
eg: sexuality, you can't choose to be gay or straight, you can choose to remain celibate or to have sex, and which person, but you can't choose which person you are attracted to...
I also chose "god does NOT know..." how can he if he doesn't exist?!
priceboy3 1 year ago
your are so right but god might have put you on earth even if he knew what you where going to do so we dont complain that we did not get a chance. just for the record i dont believe in god. but i try to look at things from different view points
wereisit1 1 year ago
"Free Will"...................Wiccan Ethic: "Do as ye will, and harm none". similar to a sense of Anarchism, but there is a spiritual balance preventing a woeful descent a socially destructive "No Rules" condition.
acerb45666555 1 year ago
Hard determinism?
First of, let's put aside God and religion, I would like to use logic only.
Your example is so to say extreme. That crack baby "had one hell of a life.Damn. What if?
What if that some other baby was born in decent place, with both open minded parents? Whatever that kid does could be interpreted as determined. Also, it could be interpreted as free will/choice. It really up to individual judgment.
(I love 500 characters rule, my name and adress can barely fit ^^)
losebiramnickove 1 year ago
It's really our fault collectively as a society that there are criminals but the whole point of the legal system is to seperate them from the rest of us and instill fear of commiting crime, even though it's our fault. I was never taught the heaven/hell tradition but hypothetical God would need to send us here to present a valid case to us why we go where we go. It would be a silly trial if the evidence was something we could have done.
Coquipirate 1 year ago
I've watched most of your videos and I really decided, "Okay, I will NOT be a 'tits or GTFO'" person. BUT...I have to say..this dark contrast definitely makes you look sexier. (Yes, yes..I watched the video and no I don't have a reply to what was said.)
Memorymode 1 year ago
I think people make "choices" all the time, however, I also think that all of our choices (and in fact our minds) are within the constricts of biology and environment. I think the popular definition of "choice" is alive and well, in the sense that we obviously make decisions all the time, but they're the product of thoughts, which are the product of a brain, which is the product of biology and environment. Yet, I still think people who break the law should be held accountable.
adean2 1 year ago
@adean2 I wish I could "like" your comment more than once.
AsianSensation0408 1 year ago
utter failure.
youareratedr 1 year ago
Religions worst nightmare? Questions.
superduperjew 1 year ago
ok... i could imagine some guy listening to this monologue expecting a certain reward afterwards, nodding his head with understanding while looking at your tits.. but that is about it..
dinkolino2 1 year ago
we do have free will quantum mechanics has proven it. The world is probability the future cannot be known because the future has no effect on the present, therefore we can never determine the future, this shows determinism is incorrect.
buckeyefan2107 1 year ago
i love being A NON FUCKING BELIEVER cause i can oversee the freaking bullshit of religion. and i did not watch the vid cause of the sucking volume
mikaelssen 1 year ago
@gogreen18
Laci,
While I have been brought up Catholic, do believe that a God does exist, and believe that the God (that in my belief does exist) is omniscient and all-knowing, I do still tend to have my doubts; especially when I become contemplative and start to delve into the types of questioning and cognitive reasoning that you demonstrate in your videos.
That being said, I would like to put aside the fact that I believe in a God that is superficial and has never been tangibly seen.
tmyersable 1 year ago
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So putting that fact aside, please allow me to continue and attempt to address a question that you brought up in this specific youtube video, entitled "Free Will and God." Essentially, if I interpreted correctly, one of your question was as follows: "If God already knows what is going to happen and what everyone is going to do, and by extension, he already knows where everyone is going to go (heaven or hell) as a result of what they do, then why does he bother with putting us on earth...
tmyersable 1 year ago
...instead of just putting us where we will ultimately go in the first place?
Now, this is a very valid question, and I struggle with it myself. With that being said, the only true rationalization that I can postulate or contrive is that in order for God to rightfully place us in heaven or hell, he must allow us to go through the processes of doing what already knows we are going to do. Essentially, if we know one day in advance that someone is going to commit a crime...
tmyersable 1 year ago
...it would be illogical to arrest that person and find him or her guilty of committing the crime before he or she has actually committed it, and if we did preemptively arrest that person, he or she would be able to argue that his or her imprisonment is unfair, and that ultimately, what we say that he or she would have done had we not imprisoned him or her would have never happened. By extension, the imprisoned person would also be able to argue that since he or she was preemptively imprisoned
tmyersable 1 year ago
based on what he or she was allegedly going to do, his or her argument would also be that his or her opportunity to commit the crime has ultimately passed and been nullified. As such, he or she never committed the crime (nor has the capability of committing that exact crime in the future), and therefore, he or she is not guilty of any crime and should be released from imprisonment.
Essentially, I think the same reasoning holds true for God; he can't reward or punish us with heaven or hell...