Battlefield Detectives: " The Battle of the Bulge" 2 of 5

[sass225]

The German forces at bastonge outnumbered the 101st defenders at that battle some people talk yet never study history. super solder the germans were hampered by the fact there tanks were so massive they wouldnt fit over the local bridges to heavy.

[sass225]

I miss these programs being on history channel Since military channel came out history channel don't focus on military history as much and I dont get military channel anymore

[TheSupersoldier1234]

Well the Germans had everything good weapons tanks and even camo jackets so that's a huge advantage in there

[R1DIKAL]

Pretty detailed plan for a "madman" like Hitler don't you think ?

Wait a minute...The historians / politicians could have...lied ?

[finsfan90]

@R1DIKAL

He wasnt crazy, far from it.

[pitatapiu]

@satanic666sonic specific units in certain sectors were outnumbered 4 to 1, due to Germans massing their force into specific sectors. The 4:1 ratio isn't across the whole front.

[satanic666sonic]

in the first part they say that there are 500.000 allied troops and 250.000 germans attacking.....how the fuck did they manage to outnumber them 4 to 1.

cant believe that the germans attacked on a front THAT narrow

[sass225]

@satanic666sonic The 4 to one advantage was local not over the whole front. don't forget Pattons 3rd army was rerouted from another front altogether to reinforce the area after the battle started it's only natural that allies would send reinforcments.

[satanic666sonic]

@sass225 yeah, cause in my understanding of ww2, the germans were the ones heavily outnumbered

[satanic666sonic]

in the first part they say that there are 500.000 allied troops and 250.000 germans attacking.....how the fuck did they manage to outnumber them 4 to 1

[ValkiryeMax]

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[SWALE1984]

Greetings everyone! My name is Tim and I am a military historian. I have just published a book all about the Battle of the Bulge. The title is: THE ARDENNES ON FIRE: VOLUME ONE. I provide extensive info on the massive German military buildup just prior to the launching of this epic miitary campaign. Then, I cover every aspect of day one of the German assault. The book has 101 photos and many fine maps. You can purchase it through Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble. It is a great book you'll love.

[satanic666sonic]

6:03 is footage from the normandy. us infantry captured by german paratroopers in june 1944. just by the way......

[RythymNblues]

POW treatment during WWII varied considerably. If you were British French or American the Germans generally abided by the 1929 Geneva convention. Of course the Reds suffered disastrously in German POW camps, and vice-versa. The Soviets certainly had no moral high ground over the Germans in the POW respect, one example is the 91 thousand men they took at Stalingrad, only 5 thousand survived the war. I don't think anyone fared well under the Japanese either.

[gjfwang]

Less than 10% of POWs 'held' by the soviet returned home. You had better chances being a POW held by Japanese and they didn't believe in surrender.

[satanic666sonic]

believe me. the russians in the first first pastwar years had nothing either. how should they have fed the pows?

[bearhaulin120]

wow hitler was smart

but a fatel decision was not giving his generals what they needed

[VagabondOracle]

If he's so smart, how come he had to shoot himself in the head?

[bearhaulin120]

who wants to be captured by russians?

you?

[VagabondOracle]

My point being, if he was so goddamn brilliant, he wouldn't have had to worry about being captured or shooting himself in the head. That's not how brilliant men's lives end.

[bearhaulin120]

towards tthe end he got stupid and let the power get to him and went nuts i have a points and so do you. (=

[VagabondOracle]

Yeah but your point is wrong.

[bearhaulin120]

my point is that he was very smart yet made extremely bad decisions

remember he controlled 74% of europe

understand this,im agreeing with you.

and your being an ass

this arguement is over

[VagabondOracle]

So then how does making extremely bad decisions make him very smart. I'm waiting to hear some actual justification for why you think he's smart and citing that he made extremely bad decisions does not work in your favor. Nor is controlling part or all of Europe make him smart either, especially given the context of World War II. So no, I'm not agreeing with you.

[bearhaulin120]

this thread&point is your life????

[VagabondOracle]

as long as you keep saying stupid shit it will be.

[bearhaulin120]

you made my day

[satanic666sonic]

dude, a lotta great n brilliant folks died by suicide or even more pervert ways.

[VagabondOracle]

I suppose it depends on your definition of great and brilliant because mine doesn't end up with that person depositing a bullet in their head.

[pressrolls]

Ya know.....I like military shows as much as the next guy....buuuut....

This show (battlefield detectives) blows.

Guys are trying to "intellectualize" the obvious. Like at 7:55

Give me a break! Does he really need to plot positions through a computer to tell that things "migth have been chaotic"??

And the show about Market Garden, the same guy concluded "after analysis" that "Things were muddy for the tanks".

Gee really? There was mud?

Tuning out - show is a waste.

[VagabondOracle]

You are a moron.

[siamlawma]

no mention of the 101st division the real heros of the Ardennes offence

[antimatterXXXIII]

@siamlawma There has been quite enough of that, much of it from supremely boastful and rather ungracious 101st veterans. It's odd that the Russians, who endured battles and living struggles that were orders of magnitude worse, are never found boasting about their individual unit histories. The 101st performed admirably and have a great PR front to constantly remind us, but this battle was won by the quick response of the 3rd Army and the grinding attrition faced by the 1st afterward.

[VagabondOracle]

Talking about the war when asked by interviewers is hardly boasting. It's rather unbecoming to call them boastful and ungracious simply because Stephen Ambrose popularized the 101st and specifically Easy Company, thus thrusting them in the spotlight. And your claim that Russians never boast is impossible to verify, and most likely, incorrect. Instead of trying to initiate a Russia vs. US dick comparing contest maybe you should honor all the veterans who defeated the fucking Nazis.

[Clonetrooper1139]

@VagabondOracle

amen. I wonder if people realize how much disrespect they show to the memories of all of those who died fighting the Nazis by trying to say who deserved more credit and who expended more effort. They are ALL just as dead.

[EvilFingers]

One can say that one of the reasons why Hitler chose a Winter Offensive is because his Forces gained enough experience in dealing with the Russians on the Eastern Front, hence why some of the Battle Hardened German Units were transfered from the Eastern Front.

[Zondercommando]

battle exhausted soldiers, rookie soldiers being surrounded, and a 4 to 1 ratio, and the coldest winter in 40 years.

thats hell

[raejuustonen]

Welcome to Finland.

[TheSupersoldier1234]

@Zondercommando Yes for allis but in Russian winter in 42-43 the 6th army was in in major trouble when they didn't have winter clothing or prober weapons for the cold now that's hell freezing over.

[JimboPH]

Where ARE they? I live in Belgium and want to have a good look at these battlefields, but I don't have any specific information as to troop movements and stuff...want to go find foxholes and blankets too!

[TimmieVD]

there are foxholes to be found in the surroundings of Bastogne (Bois du Jacques).

The main german offensive (6th SS panzer Armee - Sepp Dietrich) plan was to attack Liege and Antwerp (with Kampfgruppe Peiper as the spearheading unit). This attack was halted after 4 days in the area of La Gleize. After 20 december the main offensive took place more to the south (in the area of Bastogne) by the 5th panzer armee of Hasso Von Manteuffel.

[JimboPH]

Thanks for the info, but I know all this...I'm talking about like, WHICH FIELDS exactly to go for metaldetecting etc. I've since found some good battlemaps of La Gleize with troop movements indicated, I'm gonna go have a look again soon..

[Zobor111]

WW2 was hard, freezing cold sucks, I was a grunt and trained in cold WX. I rather have heat.

[nwannal]

The Germans leaked info about Russian generals....the Russians (Joe S) eliminated them. Then the Russians did the same, and Adolf elimainated many of his own. It was an ugly war....65 years ago.

Ugly tactic. Fear reigns supreme.

[Joseph565112]

The fog was an obvious advantage for the Wehrmacht + SS. However, my family member that served in the Wehrmacht always told us that the extreme snow fall and winds blowing it around was not part of the "plan" It slowed them up. Kubals, Panzers etc actually got stuck. It was one of the reasons the push was so effectively repulsed by the Allies.

[Lagomort]

And the reason why the typical soldier was supposed to know the weather was to be part of the plan? Seems facts and figures were not well known for people outside of the, "Need-to-know," category.

[SgtZellmer]

What? Hahaha. I am sorry sir but I have had a lot of dumb replies and this one is at least towards the top. Of course every soldier is briefed and should be totally aware of the weather. Not only so they know what they will be potentially fighting in and to dress accordingly. However, if its winter so they can bring more ammunition, rations, extra blanket in their rucksack etc.

[Lagomort]

sgtzellemer...

I think you may not have 2 neurons to rub together. We are not talking about the general weather related to time of year and local conditions, but the fact that the actual launch of attack itself was to be geared to particular bad weather to keep air-power out of it.

Since the German command was swore to secrecy on the penalty of death on all aspects of the attack, it is most likely the soldiers themselves knew little of the plan of attack when it came to issues of timing.

[Joseph565112]

It's actually pretty straight forward sir. Your comment is obviously coming from somewhere with little or no experience. The soldiers were responsible for gathering the supplies they need for their mission from the supply sergeant. Despite how much or how little they know about when a mission is going to be launched or even exactly where they are told what they need and why. This is often the only clue the "beating boys" have as to where they are headed.

[Joseph565112]

Yes of course it was. Why wouldn't it be? Soldiers aren't dressed and outfitted by their mothers sir. Like SgtZellmer said, they have to know. They are responsible for outfitting themselves and arming themselves etc for the day or week or month. However, long it will be before a major re-supply. Depending on circumstances of course.

[Lagomort]

"Soldiers aren't dressed and outfitted by their mothers sir."

To miss understand my point by avoiding the subtle aspects of what is being discussed is one thing, but the above response of reductum ad absurdum borders on outright retardation.

[Joseph565112]

They knew their vehicles would get stuck. Germans learned this lesson on the eastern front a few years prior to the bulge. To say that using this treacherous weather was all planned "borders on outright retardation"

[Lagomort]

OK, Joe, let us try this slow for someone as stupid as you obviously are.

Does the above series state Hitler had all the commanders sign an oath that says they would not discuss any aspect of the plan outside of the room? Yes, or No?

Does the above series state that it has been suggested that the Germans had planned on bad weather to keep Allied air-power out of the equation? Yes or no?

Was the individual soldiers gear going to be issued for a range of possible weather, yes or no?

Continued:

[Lagomort]

Now, if a particular type of bad weather was to be used, as the series suggested, isn't this part of the very same planning that Hitler made his commanders swear an oath against discussing to anyone, anytime, outside of Hitlers planning room? Yes, no?

Wouldn't the most parsimonious conclusion to someone claiming that the troops did not know about this aspect of the plan, be that they were simply not informed of it because they had no need to know and secrecy would have kept them in the dark?

[Joseph565112]

Excuse my language but that makes no fucking sense. When I was in Iraq I didn't know where I was going exactly every day. However, I knew I was going somewhere and when as well as what I should need. Without talking about it in the field there would have been no attack. If you knew anything about Hitler you would know that his generals were notorious for not following orders after the winter of '41 in Russia.... Please think before you post to me again...

[Lagomort]

"That is still contradictory"

OK, the general were under oath, that if they were found discussing anything about the plan, they would be shot, and their families would be sent to the camps. Did you not grasp the implications of this?

[Joseph565112]

Sir, the "contradictory" thing was said on my video. Not this one. Sir, all military were under sworn oath to do exactly what Der Fuhrer told them. Well, then explain why Walter Model was not shot? What about Manstein? What about Kesselring? Why were they not all dead after breaking "the oath"?

[Lagomort]

"Why were they not all dead after breaking "the oath"? "

How would that negate anything that was said in the series above? Show me where a single general before the Battle of the Bulge, leaked information about it, and he was not punished?

[Joseph565112]

No you answer my question or stop replying to me in regards to an old comment you couldn't even grasp. All military officials and regular soldiers were under oath. To do what the Fuhrer said. Now you are talking about leaking information about this offensive. It is not leaking information to tell your soldiers to suit up and move out. Perhaps to take extra food, ammo and blankets because they may get stranded out in the snow. That is all I was saying. That is not leaking anything.

[Joseph565112]

They weather was supposed to be low visibility and perhaps some wind yes. Not feet and feet of snow. That is not needed to keep aircraft grounded. In fact lots of snow means men and materials getting stuck and tied up. Sitting targets. You are off in la la land. You responded to my comment from two months ago. Apparently with NO clue as to what I was saying. This truly pathetic. Yes the soldiers were on a need to know basis. How could the attack occur if no one talked about any aspect of it?

[Lagomort]

"How could the attack occur if no one talked about any aspect of it? "

You obvious do not know what is being discussed. Try watching the series again and figuring it out. One of the ideas discussed was "maximum secrecy" where, if you mentioned anything, you and your family were dead.

Another was the idea of using a particular type of bad weather to their advantage, to keep the Allies overwhelming air-superiority out of the mix until they hit their goal.

[Lagomort]

"If you knew anything about Hitler you would know that his generals were notorious for not following orders after the winter of '41 in Russia.... Please think before you post to me again..."

Everything you said was taken into account in the series above, and this is where their oath came in, as it was not just death to them, but the camps for their families (wives kids, and so on)..If anything at all was leaked. ANYTHING.

Maybe you should play catch-up here before opening your mouth again...

[Joseph565112]

You have to talk about a major offensive outside of the sealed room. The lesser officers have to know at the least. Which it then trickles down to the men. The masses are going to fight and die not the 5 or 10 in a room. They have to know at least the amount of info I told you. Otherwise there would be no attack. Again, you posted to me. You didn't understand what I was talking about. This is not on me. It's on you.

[Joseph565112]

Maybe you should figure out why some 130 officers lived longer than Hitler then....

[hibob418]

I remember in the movie (Battle of the Bulge - 1965) that the German general Kohler mentions a weather forecast from Spitzberegen, Norway, the northern-most weather station in the world, saying the bad weather they needed for the offensive was on the way. Could be just a screenwriter's addition.

[nordicberserk]

Most likely, since the german ship Tirpitz had attacked and destroyed said weather station. Even if that happened at a later date, the weather station was in allied hands.

[procopro]

It was the defeat of Hitler's Wehrmacht that brought Stalin's communism to Europe. Stalin was the great "victor" of WWII. He became a global player and a much greater threat to Western Europe after 1945 than in 1939.

[ozeangruen]

sometimes i hav the impression that WW2 was a Payback for the 30 year war in Germany. 1618-1648 which at the end killed millions of Germans. Attacked by French, Italian, Austrian, Rusioan and Swedish

[FutureWarrior2006]

It is a little known fact that most people don't know or don't wanna accept - but the Wehrmacht saved the west from communism. A ton of people believe Churchill is the savior of the west when in truth it was Hitler. The USSR had been planning to invade the west for a long time and the Wehrmacht went in and bleed them white. Hitler is probably burning in hell on the hottest of its coals right now but western europe owes its current state to him.

[creamycurdy]

okay lets say what you say is true but im gonna need the following

1. proof!!!!!!!!

2. Gov documents with regards to this

3. source of infomation

4. individuals involved in this subject

till then m8 your full of shit

[mabiniapolinario]

hitler was once a jedi

[DancingRaven]

Excellent! Raven Woman........ (Carmie)

[sugarpuddin88]

I don't think Hitler's megalomania EVER let him go on the defensive!

Even when all was lost, Hitler refused to allow his troops to go on the defensive, (Stalingrad & Kursk)

The Jap decode about an offensive campaign should have merited serious consideration

I bet the info was lost in a quagmire of bureaucracy -- Like FBI info before 911

Which is why the 911 Commission said to shrink & streamline -- Oddly our Fed responded by increasing the size of bureaucracy, (Office of Info Awareness)

[wijershans]

nice to see myself back on it!

Hans Wijers

[cabana281]

awsome upload, ty