@stjohn37 Why don't you try to proof me wrong with the Bible - by reading it for yourself?"
You can do that for yourself simply by realizing that your bible is edited and in places forged, by delving back into history and seeing how it was compiled, checking with the Jews to see what they (and Jesus) would have believed and then compare the man-god stories of the pagans in history which are most similar to yours - Tertullian on Mithraism, for instance.
Your character has nothing to do with it, if you have issues with your character, maybe you should address them.
"Obvious" proof is in front of your face everyday.
I come from the same source just like you, its you that cannot accept me! I would feel sorry for you, but I think your kind of a dick, so I wont bother.
Here is my final statement: I feel bad that i couldnt get you to listen, even a lil bit, but don't be afraid. You will see the truth one day, and I will be waiting here when you do.
I have proof in my heart, its you that doubts. Its you that needs hard "eveidince" beacause you can't/won't believe on your own. My hard evidence is in the way god talks to me(feelings, thoughts, emotions, etc). Its too bad you just couldnt put away all the complicated crap you've come to know as "the way of the lord" and just listen.
I would rather be honest and hated by everyone, INCLUDING YOU!, than to be phony, "not-real", and have everyones approval(eg. church).
People like you will always beleive in hell, and in a God who would send them there, as long as they beleive God is like man----ruthless, self-serving, unforgiving and vengeful.
Most people could not imagine a God that might rise above all that. So they accepted the teachings of many churches to "fear the terrible vengence of the lord".
It's as if people can't be trusted, to act "appropriately", on their own, for their own built-in reasons. So they had to create a religion that of an angry God
Many religons say that reincarnation is a false doctrine; that we only get one life here; one chance.
We (as humans) have many fear-based religions whose teachings surround a doctrine of a God who is to be worshipped and feared.
It was throuhg fear that our entire earth society reformed itself from the matriarchy into the patriarchy. It was through fear that the early preists got people to "mend their wicked ways" and "heed the word of the lord" IT was through fear that churches controlled you
I forgive you for your hate filled words toward me and need you to understand they are not my ideas I simply agree with them (for they are absolute truth). It is only what the bible says that matters. The only one you have to answer to in this life, is, "you" may be right for now,(unless you were caught for some earthly crime, but at the judgement of God you will have to give an answer to Him. He does offer forgivness you know! You don't have to be bitter towards God's correcting Love.
Religion encourages you to explore the thoughts of others and accept them as your own. Spirituality invites you to toss away the thoughts of others and come up with your own.
"Feeling good" is your way of telling yourself that your last thought was truth, that your last word was wisdom, that your last action was love.
To notice how far you have progressed, to measure how highly you have evolved, simply look to see what makes you "feel good"
So your telling me that if I want to look lustfully at another man's wife that because it feels good it's right. Or, if I want to get drunk out of my face and become a fool that because it feels right it is? So what do you do with the 1st commandment that says; "You shall have no other gods before me. Or the second that says; You should not make a god to suit yourself? Does your conscience not bear witness to you that believing in what you "feel" is right really isn't?
Jeremiah 17:10 says; "I the Lord search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve." - So let us reason with that bible statement shall we?
Before you toss this one away please consider it: Jeremiah 17:9; The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? - So your telling me to trust in our own decietfully wicked heart? No thanks.
Religion would have you take its word for it. That is why all rekigions ultimately fail.
Spirituality, on the other hand, will always succeed.
Religiong asks you to learn from the expeirince of others.Spirituality encourages you to seek your own.
Religion cannot stand spirituality. It cannot abide it. For spirituality may bring you to a different conclusion than a particular religion---and this no known religion can tolerate.
10For, "Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech. 11He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
12For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
Ya know I hate to tell you but good and evil are terms we, as humans, created. You cant have one without the other! Your religion is based on FEAR!!! not love like you say, I can see right through it. At lesit I'm not wondering if I'm gonna go to hell or not because heaven and hell is also human created. Anything else other than your true feelings is phony, kinda like you.
Sorry I willl make my own choices because thats the way the Creator made me, No matter what i do I WIL NOT fail like you say i will. Keep your offensive, pre-conceived, false, hypocritical ideas to yourself. For you to even approach people and try to convice them of this big scary white man in a robe is gonna come for them if they don't "repent", has fear written all over it buddy. The only one i have to answer to is ME!
Hebrews 4:7b,& 12-13; 7b;"Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."
12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Watch your mouth! I asked a question cause I didn't know. Your reply shows the truth about your real heart. "Decietfully Wicked" Jeremiah 17:9-10. Ira - Hate is equal to murder in God's eye. Matthew 5:21-22. And, if you think your right and we "have no idea" (according to Ira)then why does what we say stir your conscience and bother you so much? May it be that it just might be The Gospel that offends you?
Ira: Fear is a good thing. Fear keeps you (hopefully) from running out into a busy highway or playing Russian roulette. Fear is healthy. Learning is good but unfortunately you sound like 2 Tim 3:7 'always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.". If you were blind and heading for a cliff the right thing to do is to warn you and build fear in you about your situation. That's what he is doing. Don't harden your heart. Not wanting to believe the truth doesn't change it.
I never said fear wasn't "helpful", I just said I will not do things that the "bible" says i should do because if I dont I will go to hell, ..ain;t going down like that sorry but if thats your thing...go for it, not bashing it just dont see the "real" in it.
You can all live in fear for the rest of your lives cuz its not for me, I actually feel sorry for you. Your mind should never stop growing. the books Conversations with God 1,2 and 3 are pretty good. Check em out
Interesting. You believe exactly what Oprah believes! A god that won't send anyone to Hell. Well your right - your god can't cause it doesn't exsist. If you were saved you would be able to see clearly... No need to feel sorry.
...and you sound like a fool, you really think people look at you when you speak and say "oh mna, ..that's what I've been missing my whole life!!!!, a god (of course the one and only god) tha I can fear so i can FOLLOW in the path of some dead dude that I'm supposed to cry for!!!......please listen to youeself when you talk....really.
That would be 1 Corinthians 1:18: "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." We know full well that non-Christians (and many professing christians) will see us as fools and foolish. Here's what I think you're missing Ira: We aren't selling a miracle product. We are telling people how they stand right now before God. Simply stating a fact as a warning. Then the good news (Gospel) is how you can avoid punishment due.
"Following in the path of" anyone will not save you from the wrath to come. That would be righteousness by works which is not what the Bible prescribes. Though all religions other than true Christianity subscribe to a works-righteousness system, that is not what Jesus said to do. He said repent, turn from your sins and trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. No one deserves it, we deserve hell, me most of all, but God is rich in mercy and will forgive yours sins, wash your conscience clean...
Rais - ""Following in the path of" anyone will not save you from the wrath to come. That would be righteousness by works which is not what the Bible prescribes. "
Not what the bible proscribes, Rais, but that is what Jesus taught:
MAR 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what
2) Jesus said: MAR10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
JESUS DID NOT TELL THIS PERSON ALL HE NEEDED TO DO WAS TO BELIEVE IN HIM. INSTEAD HE REPEATED SOME OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.
Faith alone will not do it, Rais, no matter what the Pauline followers tell you. You can talk the talk, but you must walk the walk.
...and change your heart. I'm not trying to entice you, I'm simply stating fact. Yeah I know you don't believe it and I understand. I just wanted to try and help explain it a bit. Have a great day.
I 100% have to agree with Raistlin49's comment below. Hey Ira what does oh mna stand for? I don't know all the chat abbreviations and am just curious.. sorry. And one more thing, Jesus is not dead - on the third day He rose to life, appeared to over five hundred eye witnesses, then ascended into Heaven. He is alive today and will return to judge the world in righteousness. Cry out to the one true living God is what I'm encouraging you to do.
lol....mmmya ok. Religion is for people whoe are afraid of going to hell, thats what its designed for. Spirituality is for people who've already been there. I'm spiritual. Why cant you answer any of my questions since you know so much?. Have you always been this diluted? and how do you know what I want to believe in?, maybe your jealous? Your all abunch of lil sheep, you realy are. WE as a whole make up god can't you see that? If you have to call me names to justify your own guilt.....so be it.
You said; "Spirituality is for people who've already been there." Believe me I was the sinner of sinners! It wasn't until God saved me that I saw the truth the Bible clearly displays. All of us like sheep have gone astray - yes, all! I'm not better than you - just better off, and about name calling, who is calling who what? You said; "Your all abunch of lil sheep, you realy are. WE as a whole make up god can't you see that?" This idolatry and is what Oprah believes in.
Just for everyone else who watches... IraBlu is having trouble believing in a "Just" God (the one true God) because he like many others want to believe in a god to suit themselves. This is more comfortable for people like him but it is simply tragic. This is called idolatry (breaking of the second commadment) and idolaters will not inherit the kingdom of God but will be thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 21:8. Only by Repentance and faith in Jesus Christ can you escape God's Holy Wrath.
"... IraBlu is having trouble believing .... because he like many others want to believe in a god to suit themselves. "
And that is exactly what christianity and all the other religions have done - created a god to suit themselves. The creator existed long before any of our religions and will still exist for the millions of years to come. He is above all religions and I doubt very much that he cares about what rules you make for yourselves, each within your little dogmatic coccoon.
Repent?...Sin?....I dont understand the ways or words of your god(or whatever you think God is), its quite obvious your a follower instead of a leader. Like I said, theres nothing your gonna tell me about the Creator, because threatening litle kids with going to hell is a lil much dont you think?
Our relationship with this earth is connected to everything in it, not about a book about this big wrathful god who will send us to hell if we dont listen like lil sheep.
This has been flagged as spam show
@stjohn37 Why don't you try to proof me wrong with the Bible - by reading it for yourself?"
You can do that for yourself simply by realizing that your bible is edited and in places forged, by delving back into history and seeing how it was compiled, checking with the Jews to see what they (and Jesus) would have believed and then compare the man-god stories of the pagans in history which are most similar to yours - Tertullian on Mithraism, for instance.
'
3165Peter 8 months ago
Comment removed
corella26 3 years ago
You're right, it's YOU thats needs proof not me.
IraBlu 3 years ago
Your character has nothing to do with it, if you have issues with your character, maybe you should address them.
"Obvious" proof is in front of your face everyday.
I come from the same source just like you, its you that cannot accept me! I would feel sorry for you, but I think your kind of a dick, so I wont bother.
Good luck with that whole bible thing.
IraBlu 3 years ago
Here is my final statement: I feel bad that i couldnt get you to listen, even a lil bit, but don't be afraid. You will see the truth one day, and I will be waiting here when you do.
IraBlu 3 years ago
I have proof in my heart, its you that doubts. Its you that needs hard "eveidince" beacause you can't/won't believe on your own. My hard evidence is in the way god talks to me(feelings, thoughts, emotions, etc). Its too bad you just couldnt put away all the complicated crap you've come to know as "the way of the lord" and just listen.
I would rather be honest and hated by everyone, INCLUDING YOU!, than to be phony, "not-real", and have everyones approval(eg. church).
IraBlu 3 years ago
As i was saying, they had to create a religiong that tuaght the doctrine of an angyr, retributive God in order to keep themselves in line.
IraBlu 3 years ago
People like you will always beleive in hell, and in a God who would send them there, as long as they beleive God is like man----ruthless, self-serving, unforgiving and vengeful.
Most people could not imagine a God that might rise above all that. So they accepted the teachings of many churches to "fear the terrible vengence of the lord".
It's as if people can't be trusted, to act "appropriately", on their own, for their own built-in reasons. So they had to create a religion that of an angry God
IraBlu 3 years ago
One churh even insisted that God would punish you if you did not go to church every sunday. Not going to church was declared a sin.
And not just any church. One had to attend one particular church. If you went to a church of different denomination, that too, was a sin.
This is an attempt at control, pure and simple, using fear. The amazing thing is it works. Hell, it still works.
IraBlu 3 years ago
Many religons say that reincarnation is a false doctrine; that we only get one life here; one chance.
We (as humans) have many fear-based religions whose teachings surround a doctrine of a God who is to be worshipped and feared.
It was throuhg fear that our entire earth society reformed itself from the matriarchy into the patriarchy. It was through fear that the early preists got people to "mend their wicked ways" and "heed the word of the lord" IT was through fear that churches controlled you
IraBlu 3 years ago
Yet you don't seek to force your evolution--to evolve further, faster--by denying what feels good, or stepping away from it.
Self-denial is self destruction.
IraBlu 3 years ago
I forgive you for your hate filled words toward me and need you to understand they are not my ideas I simply agree with them (for they are absolute truth). It is only what the bible says that matters. The only one you have to answer to in this life, is, "you" may be right for now,(unless you were caught for some earthly crime, but at the judgement of God you will have to give an answer to Him. He does offer forgivness you know! You don't have to be bitter towards God's correcting Love.
stjohn37 3 years ago
Religion encourages you to explore the thoughts of others and accept them as your own. Spirituality invites you to toss away the thoughts of others and come up with your own.
"Feeling good" is your way of telling yourself that your last thought was truth, that your last word was wisdom, that your last action was love.
To notice how far you have progressed, to measure how highly you have evolved, simply look to see what makes you "feel good"
IraBlu 3 years ago
So your telling me that if I want to look lustfully at another man's wife that because it feels good it's right. Or, if I want to get drunk out of my face and become a fool that because it feels right it is? So what do you do with the 1st commandment that says; "You shall have no other gods before me. Or the second that says; You should not make a god to suit yourself? Does your conscience not bear witness to you that believing in what you "feel" is right really isn't?
stjohn37 3 years ago
Jeremiah 17:10 says; "I the Lord search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve." - So let us reason with that bible statement shall we?
stjohn37 3 years ago
Sorry, I am still not afraid of your god, nor will be because it just simply does not exist.
IraBlu 3 years ago
I said good not right, pay attention.
IraBlu 3 years ago
Before you toss this one away please consider it: Jeremiah 17:9; The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? - So your telling me to trust in our own decietfully wicked heart? No thanks.
stjohn37 3 years ago
you're simply not listening, and I'm not here to baby-sit you. Grow up.
IraBlu 3 years ago
why are you conviced your heart is deceitfully wicked? Aren't you listening?
IraBlu 3 years ago
Religion would have you take its word for it. That is why all rekigions ultimately fail.
Spirituality, on the other hand, will always succeed.
Religiong asks you to learn from the expeirince of others.Spirituality encourages you to seek your own.
Religion cannot stand spirituality. It cannot abide it. For spirituality may bring you to a different conclusion than a particular religion---and this no known religion can tolerate.
IraBlu 3 years ago
1Peter 3:10-12;
10For, "Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech. 11He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
12For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
stjohn37 3 years ago
Ya know I hate to tell you but good and evil are terms we, as humans, created. You cant have one without the other! Your religion is based on FEAR!!! not love like you say, I can see right through it. At lesit I'm not wondering if I'm gonna go to hell or not because heaven and hell is also human created. Anything else other than your true feelings is phony, kinda like you.
IraBlu 3 years ago
Sorry I willl make my own choices because thats the way the Creator made me, No matter what i do I WIL NOT fail like you say i will. Keep your offensive, pre-conceived, false, hypocritical ideas to yourself. For you to even approach people and try to convice them of this big scary white man in a robe is gonna come for them if they don't "repent", has fear written all over it buddy. The only one i have to answer to is ME!
IraBlu 3 years ago
Hebrews 4:7b,& 12-13; 7b;"Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."
12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
stjohn37 3 years ago
You guys really have no idea what you're talking about......and hey stjohn "mna" is a typo for man ...you dumbass, are you really that stupid?
IraBlu 3 years ago
Watch your mouth! I asked a question cause I didn't know. Your reply shows the truth about your real heart. "Decietfully Wicked" Jeremiah 17:9-10. Ira - Hate is equal to murder in God's eye. Matthew 5:21-22. And, if you think your right and we "have no idea" (according to Ira)then why does what we say stir your conscience and bother you so much? May it be that it just might be The Gospel that offends you?
stjohn37 3 years ago
Ira: Fear is a good thing. Fear keeps you (hopefully) from running out into a busy highway or playing Russian roulette. Fear is healthy. Learning is good but unfortunately you sound like 2 Tim 3:7 'always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.". If you were blind and heading for a cliff the right thing to do is to warn you and build fear in you about your situation. That's what he is doing. Don't harden your heart. Not wanting to believe the truth doesn't change it.
Raistlin49 3 years ago
I never said fear wasn't "helpful", I just said I will not do things that the "bible" says i should do because if I dont I will go to hell, ..ain;t going down like that sorry but if thats your thing...go for it, not bashing it just dont see the "real" in it.
IraBlu 3 years ago
I understand and I appreciate your civility. I replied to this comment in my replies to your other comment so, no need to repeat. Thanks again.
Raistlin49 3 years ago
Fools.
IraBlu 3 years ago
Great work Kevin! I appreciate your demeanor.
Raistlin49 3 years ago
You can all live in fear for the rest of your lives cuz its not for me, I actually feel sorry for you. Your mind should never stop growing. the books Conversations with God 1,2 and 3 are pretty good. Check em out
IraBlu 3 years ago
Interesting. You believe exactly what Oprah believes! A god that won't send anyone to Hell. Well your right - your god can't cause it doesn't exsist. If you were saved you would be able to see clearly... No need to feel sorry.
stjohn37 3 years ago
"Being Phony wil get you nowhere"- Book of Ira verse 1
IraBlu 3 years ago
Now I get it... You are your own god.. it all makes perfect sense.
stjohn37 3 years ago
...and you sound like a fool, you really think people look at you when you speak and say "oh mna, ..that's what I've been missing my whole life!!!!, a god (of course the one and only god) tha I can fear so i can FOLLOW in the path of some dead dude that I'm supposed to cry for!!!......please listen to youeself when you talk....really.
IraBlu 3 years ago
That would be 1 Corinthians 1:18: "For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." We know full well that non-Christians (and many professing christians) will see us as fools and foolish. Here's what I think you're missing Ira: We aren't selling a miracle product. We are telling people how they stand right now before God. Simply stating a fact as a warning. Then the good news (Gospel) is how you can avoid punishment due.
Raistlin49 3 years ago
"Following in the path of" anyone will not save you from the wrath to come. That would be righteousness by works which is not what the Bible prescribes. Though all religions other than true Christianity subscribe to a works-righteousness system, that is not what Jesus said to do. He said repent, turn from your sins and trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. No one deserves it, we deserve hell, me most of all, but God is rich in mercy and will forgive yours sins, wash your conscience clean...
Raistlin49 3 years ago
Rais - ""Following in the path of" anyone will not save you from the wrath to come. That would be righteousness by works which is not what the Bible prescribes. "
Not what the bible proscribes, Rais, but that is what Jesus taught:
MAR 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what
shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Matthew1944 3 years ago
2) Jesus said: MAR10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
JESUS DID NOT TELL THIS PERSON ALL HE NEEDED TO DO WAS TO BELIEVE IN HIM. INSTEAD HE REPEATED SOME OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.
Faith alone will not do it, Rais, no matter what the Pauline followers tell you. You can talk the talk, but you must walk the walk.
Matthew1944 3 years ago
...and change your heart. I'm not trying to entice you, I'm simply stating fact. Yeah I know you don't believe it and I understand. I just wanted to try and help explain it a bit. Have a great day.
Raistlin49 3 years ago
I 100% have to agree with Raistlin49's comment below. Hey Ira what does oh mna stand for? I don't know all the chat abbreviations and am just curious.. sorry. And one more thing, Jesus is not dead - on the third day He rose to life, appeared to over five hundred eye witnesses, then ascended into Heaven. He is alive today and will return to judge the world in righteousness. Cry out to the one true living God is what I'm encouraging you to do.
stjohn37 3 years ago
lol....mmmya ok. Religion is for people whoe are afraid of going to hell, thats what its designed for. Spirituality is for people who've already been there. I'm spiritual. Why cant you answer any of my questions since you know so much?. Have you always been this diluted? and how do you know what I want to believe in?, maybe your jealous? Your all abunch of lil sheep, you realy are. WE as a whole make up god can't you see that? If you have to call me names to justify your own guilt.....so be it.
IraBlu 3 years ago
You said; "Spirituality is for people who've already been there." Believe me I was the sinner of sinners! It wasn't until God saved me that I saw the truth the Bible clearly displays. All of us like sheep have gone astray - yes, all! I'm not better than you - just better off, and about name calling, who is calling who what? You said; "Your all abunch of lil sheep, you realy are. WE as a whole make up god can't you see that?" This idolatry and is what Oprah believes in.
stjohn37 3 years ago
....and sorry I don't watch Oprah, unlike you I have a meaningfu life lmao.
IraBlu 3 years ago
Just for everyone else who watches... IraBlu is having trouble believing in a "Just" God (the one true God) because he like many others want to believe in a god to suit themselves. This is more comfortable for people like him but it is simply tragic. This is called idolatry (breaking of the second commadment) and idolaters will not inherit the kingdom of God but will be thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 21:8. Only by Repentance and faith in Jesus Christ can you escape God's Holy Wrath.
stjohn37 3 years ago
"... IraBlu is having trouble believing .... because he like many others want to believe in a god to suit themselves. "
And that is exactly what christianity and all the other religions have done - created a god to suit themselves. The creator existed long before any of our religions and will still exist for the millions of years to come. He is above all religions and I doubt very much that he cares about what rules you make for yourselves, each within your little dogmatic coccoon.
Matthew1944 3 years ago
So true, thnk you.
IraBlu 3 years ago
Repent?...Sin?....I dont understand the ways or words of your god(or whatever you think God is), its quite obvious your a follower instead of a leader. Like I said, theres nothing your gonna tell me about the Creator, because threatening litle kids with going to hell is a lil much dont you think?
Our relationship with this earth is connected to everything in it, not about a book about this big wrathful god who will send us to hell if we dont listen like lil sheep.
Please dont post back, thnx.
IraBlu 3 years ago