Sam Harris: Morals/pretendings to know things we don't know

[RougeWaterPoloPlayer]

3:03 except that ICC is sadly ineffective

[GohModley]

So it turns out that Jesus was just another Jew? MOM!!!!

[DoomNoMore]

He is so right.. And he bright its well, without the usual Dawkins/Hitchens aggression.

[Liberatedt]

I understand where he his coming from but if he read the scripture in the new testaments when Jesus said before you were told to hate you enemies and do love those who love you he came to dismiss the past and to tear down religion thats why he was despised.

[sum1otosh1]

@Liberatedt he also stated that he who loves his mother and father cannot love him.

[Liberatedt]

@sum1otosh1 no he didn't and i am sure you are taking that out of context to.

[sum1otosh1]

@Liberatedt Yes he did. And what context? The context of a guy talking to his apostles?

[CES888100]

yes

[moshalhat]

what you say about " in the name of God" is just a common saying,accersitusmaximus.

It is neither true nor statistically corroborated.The number of People who commited suicide is statistically far beyond those killed in wars.

and for the secondd part, you simply have to stop judging people & stop evaluate others values.

By using words like ludicrous, you already pretend yourself to be of a suprem level & that is ridicule!

[moshalhat]

it is interesting that these societies also have the highest suicide rate !

[NerdzClub2]

Moshalhat: Wrong.

See, you can say whatever opinion you like, but there's a boolean value to facts. The countries he mentioned don't even make the top 20 on suicide rates.

So I've either corrected you (if you were merely ignorant) or called you out (if you are lying deliberately.)

[moshalhat]

Just refer to The latest WHO database on suicide rates !

I dont care of what you personally think, by the way

[NerdzClub2]

I did buddy.

None of the three nations he mentioned made the Top 20 on suicide rates, I'm looking at the chart right now. Which suggests that you haven't, or we're looking at different charts. Make sure your info is updated.

Also, noting that you don't care what I personally think has nothing to do with a conversation revolving around written statistics. Numbers are more reliable than rhetoric.

Good try though.

[moshalhat]

I don´t know what you´ve been looking at, hope not google !

but I mean the WHO Suicide Prevention (SUPRE) - 2008. Within a "global" mortality rate of 16 per 100,000 Sweden,Denmark and the Netherlands has a rate of 19.5, 19.2 and 18.7 respectively.

Just check the country reports.

[moshalhat]

And besides, one may compare the data but neither the WHO does nor you can arrange the countries out of these statsical data numerically due to different years in which these data were determined. That´s what unprofessionals like in Wiki do!

[NerdzClub2]

I'm aware of that, but the nations' own health agencies also due independent reports, semi-annually. It's all 2008 information.

Also, an average means nothing without standard deviation measurements. According to WHO, there are nations with 0.0 suicides in some years. That would bring down the average substantially. Furthermore, census in Western nations are more precise and regular.

[moshalhat]

I fail to understand why would you need to meausre the standard deviation.neither the data are subject to bias nor the observations are random nor they are estimating probabilities.

You are making the impression that you need to do more homwork on statistics.

Nevertheless, my point is that these 3 countries (whom Harris issues higher comparative morals) are still having higher suicide rates than the USA (16.8)

[tanfouk]

@moshalhat

The high suicide rate in Scandinavian countries has been attributed to their long dark winters.

[moshalhat]

@tanfouk : Excuse us, suicide is actually multi-factorial. What study are you referring to ?

[TheGodlessGuitarist]

@tanfouk

"The high suicide rate in Scandinavian countries has been attributed to their long dark winters. "

Assisted suicide (usually in relation to intolerable terminal illness) is also legal in some of those countries, which will of course boost the numbers.

[angelic8632002]

@NerdzClub2 I second this. And i LIVE in Sweden. Trust me, suicides rates here are comparatively low. That is not to say on any level that is acceptable. The aim being zero cases.

[moshalhat]

I find it interesting that these kind of people always talk about ethics & morality as if they were a matter-of-course for all humankind to have the same moral aspects, which is never the case.

They keep talking about being good & acting good without knowing that this good differs among cultures !

[kkboxer20]

he's great!!!

[thehighladder]

Stumble Win!

[Innize]

Good point about the commandments contradicting themselves, with Thou Shalt Not Kill interfering with Honor the Sabbath Day, and Keep It Holy, among others. Will use this in further debates :)

[RomeoTheRottweiler]

.

I'd hit that.

.

[DerekBarns]

Okay, where in the New Testament does Christ say he supports slavery? And don't give me that "it's implied" crap, I want quotes.

[jigme800]

Derek Barns: In Luke 12:47, the parable of the faithful and unfaithful slave, Jesus recommends the beating of slaves. The beating is to be severe, if the fault is, or less severe if the "offense" is not so bad. But the most astounding pro-slavery statement in the Bible is made by Jesus himself in Matthew 10:24-25. Here Jesus not only reminds slaves that they are never above their master, he actually recommends that they strive to be like him.

[cdog4100]

OH SMACK!

[accersitusmaximus]

Exodus 32:

27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

[billybobthortansbro]

gtfo

[accersitusmaximus]

More people have been killed in the name of God then for any other reason. Terrible crimes can be justified in the pursuit of divine justice.

Thy shall not kill?

[moshalhat]

I differ with you. the 2 world wars weren´t in the name of God. Hitler & Mussolini did not kill in the Name of God People killed in South Africa , Kosovo,Albanien,Afghanista,Ira­q ,Indonisia & are still killed in Palestina are not killed in the name of God as you proclaim !

[accersitusmaximus]

Are you measuring the recent world wars with the 700 year crusades?

[moshalhat]

You are emphasizing years while I´m bothered about the number of people been killed !

What a bifocal perspective in expressing morals !

[accersitusmaximus]

More people have been killed in the name of God then for any other reason. Even today we are judging people soley on ludicrous religious values.

[oran6es]

Please move to Sweden or the Netherlands, twirp. Quote the bible all you want, who cares? It's okay for you to rationalize as an atheist but we can't rationalize as Christians ? There is no perfect book. There is one perfect God.

[adrianeaglrck]

thats hot

[pmfcal]

Excellent reflections about moral. Thanks for posting.

[johnclavis]

Harris's point about the defense of scripture as being "appropriate for its time" is devestating -- "the best the argument ... does is render scripture irrelevant, not morally wise". Brilliant and inarguable. Bravo. Thanks for posting this!

[Redfingers]

I absolutely agree.

I was shocked at how profound that was....the same thoughts had been milling around my brain in fragments for a while and he pieced them together in eloquent fashion.

[johnclavis]

Read the Book of Numbers, Chapter 31. It's monstrous. Moses orders his army to murder all the Midianite women and children, *except* for the young girls who've never had sex, which they get to keep for themselves. Yes, that's right -- all the captured female virgins became sex slaves! Woo hoo! It's the Greatest Penthouse Forum Story Ever Told!

This is "appropriate for its time"? The generals who spared the women and children did so out of mercy, so obviously they were capable of feeling it!

[CrunkRockSteadyEvan]

recognize these books do not deserve respect

a chuck palahuink book makes me less sick and is more wise than any scripture