Added: 5 months ago
From: BLACKB0ND
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  • i think CAPCOM has got SQUARE-ENIX beat consider how street fighter 2 has been pimped on every game system on the planet! LONG LIVE VAGRANT STORY!!!!!

  • @kejaris

    Unlike Square Enix Capcom actually makes new games in their series and isn't based primarily on spinoffs and remakes.

  • @kejaris lol get a girlfriend you internet porn dick beater

  • Kingdom hearts birth by sleep is a great game one of the best psp games in my opinion for some reason all the kingdom hearts side games all make sence and make kh3 sound awesome when it comes out

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  • FF13 is crap that was not RPG

    JRPG these days is xseed and NIS and never forget ATLAS

    persona is kick ass :D

    but mostly J-RPG games these days are dead

    i hope for a rivevel like the one we have these days for platformer "sonic 4, rayman orgin"

    you know what let them make FPS FF spin off game

  • 01:11 don't want to be rude but what you called final fantasy VII is acutally VIII

  • @frfcrdam that just loses the whole Japanese style. There are ways to make a good rpg without making it look like our games

  • "HD Doesn't matter"

    No truer words have been said about gaming.

  • You should complain about "Hollywoodland" copying everyone's ideas

  • Why you no show Chrono Trigger for your "proof"

  • I like Square for picking up True Crime Hong Kong :)

  • @allotheabove123 That game dropped for a reason! :D

  • @iTouchin I was unsure about it until i heard that some of the devs worked on Skate, Saints Row and Bully. Plus i saw the gameplay and it looked cool to me

  • "final fantasy 7"

    that was final fantasy 8

  • I love how you always use CM Punk at the beginning and ends of your videos. :)

  • kingdom hearts 3d is the only game I want from square enix. SQUARE and CAPCOM are in the same boat.

  • Screw Square. They asked for it. No, they begged for it.

  • However in regards to Square Enix, all these spinoffs are ridiculous, a couple are ok but at the rate they're doing it it's ridiculous. Good thing they bought Eidos or we would have to deal with RPG spinoffs till the end of time, that would be the only thing if they did not have Deus Ex: HR (which a commercial is playing on TV XD)

  • A worse company than the likes of Capcom or Square Enix is Namco Bandai specifically in the RPG department. Tales of Symphonia timed Gamecube exclusive, then ported to PS2 with bonus content, all the people who bought the Gamecube version got fucked. Tales of Vesperia Xbox 360 timed exclusive, ported to PS3, people who bought it for the 360 got fucked, Tales of Graces Wii to PS3, Wii got fucked. Namco cannot make any Tales game multiplat even though that will ensure more sales in US.

  • @Inuboy1000

    Why wouldn't you add content to a later port? Otherwise there is zero incentive to releasing the game later with the same content.

  • @BLACKB0ND True, the issue is that they should not be porting the games to other platforms, they should be making the games for both of those platforms from the get go.

  • OMG I want FF13V KH3 whats wrong with Square Enix.

  • Love this video. I was a major fan of Square, but they have been ridiculously disappointing for quite awhile now. Final Fantasy remakes.. great. Where's Versus though? I've LITERALLY been seeing that same damn trailer for the past years. Where the hell is it at? And don't even get me started with KH3. I've been wanting that game since I massacred KH2, but it turns out that Nomura doesn't EVEN KNOW if he wants to make it yet. Wow.

  • @RealJohr ugh, I used to love Kingdom Hearts. But the side stories are terrible. Like Re:Coded, 358/2 Days, Re:Chain of Memories. It's the same worlds with the same characters and nearly same story. I bet KHDDD will be another one of those.

  • the Kingdom Heart spin-offs actually connect with the story btw, & I wouldn't mind re-playing FFX since my PS3 doesn't play PS2 games and I sold my PS2 like 5 years ago.

  • You showed Final Fantasy 8 and said Final Fantasy 7. :0

  • @frfcrdam with rpg elements

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  • @TieflingFighter why are you talking shit about those games? just cause of the reviews?

  • i agree man. square-enix use to ride the high horse, then something happened to them and now they half ass games. most are trash. i hope they come back though, but unlikely

  • SquareEnix has to stop remaking their games. As much as a like to see a PS3 HD Remake of X, Square needs to step their game up and come out with something original. Look how many times Final Fantasy IV was remade. First for the SNES, then the PS1, then the GBA, then the DS, and now the PSP. It's sad really. In my opinion, Namco Bandai and ATLUS are burying Square in JRPGs. Those two companies have WAY more original JRPGs this gen than Square.

  • Enjoyed the content of the vid, but can you please turn off your TV while you're recording a video ? :[]

  • agreed

  • keep this hair i like it :) btw i cant agree with you cause i never played a jrpg or western rpg its just strait up sega and nintendo games.

  • Square Enix is ass now. The last two good games i played were Dq 8, FF X Still waiting for Versus and Dq X. Problem with square enix is that they keep announcing games way to early, not only that they over hype everything with trailers. To many spinoff's and ports. Bring back Hironobu Sakaguchi

  • im happy that was my fav ff

  • yea they are wack

    i also dont know why they still wont announce ffversus 13 to be multiplat

    i mean like who do they think they are fooling? the game is going to be wack anyways.. they are just going to find a way to screw up something simple

  • hmm i wonder why this vid didn't hit my subscriptions list

  • TBH I love Final Fantasy1-6, Lufia, and Chrono Trigger. I Have not liked any of their games after the listed ones, and I would love to see an updated Chrono Trigger. Sequels to classics ruin a lot of games(atleast in their case). I would say the same for the Resident Evil franchise, I would rather see a updated version of the classics than some botched job at sequels.

  • I love the HD re-releases, but Square needs to stop re-release, remaking & reselling game people already own. if anything needs a re-release in HD, it's Pyschonauts, that game needs to be played by the masses.

  • @BLACKB0ND This generation of gaming (on consoles at least) truely is the worst to date.

  • RARE. WTF happened to them! Microsoft turn them to shit! How about a new Jet force Gemini! A better Banjo and Kazooie, a New Killer Instinct, a new conkers bad fur day! Or a new fucking game! xD

  • @I1KonArtis1I

    ppl need to know this, rare at microsoft IS NOT the rare that was with nintendo, they are at crytek right now if u want to know where they went, all the talent that made rare what it was had all left just before nintendo sold them

  • Got that fresh cut boy lol

  • *claps* i played Square Soft games since i was 6yrs old,and i fucking completely agree with you 1000%. damn those charts! i said SE was a piece of shit 4yrs ago but shit man. the stats show how much we are have been getting since 06... square enix is completey dead into proven other wise. fantasic video man. :D

  • lol once ffvii remake comes out then they are just gonna keep remaking only ffvii for different platforms just like chrono trigger, ffvi

  • Oh and dude, you're overreacting, keep your.. hair on.

    *rimshot*

  • Couldn't care less about "TEH MILKING" aspect, I'm just tired of hearing how underrated FF6 supposedly is. To the point where it's becoming.. overrated.. in the time they've spent on all these ports, they could've remade THAT instead. The only remake I'm actually grateful for is FF3. (The real one, not the American localization of FF6.)

  • blackbond i think activision is the same what about it

  • @12martin12rojas

    Activision isn't about remaking games or porting games from the past. They are about making new games but at a rapid pace. They are complete opposites if anything.

  • @BLACKB0ND FFXIII was new, it pretty much sucked imo, give me my FFVII remake

  • @BLACKB0ND each final fantasy is different, call of duty are all the same

    People who dislikes SquareEnix this gen certainly don't have a psp or ds, and haven't played crisis core, 3rd birthday, the world ends with you, lord of arcana, dissidia, and kingdom hearts birth by sleep, serious, you said kingdom hearts 2 came a long time ago, but we have sequels that matter to the story

    It's like saying assassins creed brotherhood doesn't matter

  • @LeoKindy

    The fact that you had to mention Call of Duty to Final Fantasy ends your argument right there. Crisis Core, spin off. 3rd Birth Day, spinoff. Dissidia, spin off, Birth by Sleep, spin off. There is no sequel to Kingdom Hearts 2. I don't see a Kingdom Hearts 3. TWEWY was their last great game and the last one I spent MY MONEY on. Keep gobbling up these games. The situation won't get better. & Activision doesn't develop COD. But when whomever starts remaking CODs left & right lemme know

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  • @LeoKindy "It's like saying assassins creed brotherhood doesn't matter"

    that's like saying martin luther king doesn't matter

    LOLOLOL XD jk.

  • To be honest. All of their games are just marketed to the newer generation. So they get an idea as to what the company and games are all about. In a way am glad they aren't remaking FF7. imo I think it is vastly over rated game (FF7). FF 10 had charm to it. And i agree, there are some "new" ip but not really thought out or pushed.

  • Nice hair Bond, or the lack of it.

  • I gave up on SE when I bought both Kingdom Hearts 2 and Final Fantasy XII and they were both garbage.

  • I don't mind ports and remakes that much, provided they are old. I didn't really start playing games until PSone/N64 when I was like 6 so I really liked the Chrono Trigger and FFIV remakes; then I imagine some even younger people would like to play them, but yes I still agree that they are pretty pathetic. It seems that either a company doesn't make enough remakes or makes too many. I would like to play the old SMT games from Atlus (Digital Devil Story) but no dice only persona remakes.

  • when was the last time we saw a stream of games that were legit new instead of re-makes, ports and re-releases?

    right now legit new games are actually rare....

  • @roler42

    Probably Chrono Cross in August and then FFIX in November thee months later. Yeah those times are over.

  • @BLACKB0ND So Black are you stating that Final Fantasy XIII Versus is going to be shit just because they announced it along time ago and its now going into full development? I'm just saying Square has been making so many games.Why don't you wait for Versus to come out before making this video.You never know if Versus will be the game changer that puts Square back on top.

  • @ShawShank503

    Every SquareEnix game from here on is average to decent until proven otherwise. I have no faith in the company

  • I have all the FF games and a shitload of Square enix games. Thing is, I used to love SE but now I am pissed at em. I haven't seen anything amazing from them since 1999. After that almost all their RPGs now are a skeleton compared to their huge massive adventure RPG games from the past.

  • This seems to be a thing in Japan right now. SE does FF up the ying yang, Nintendo remade Ocarina and StarFox, Capcom does RE4 HD, Konami redoes all the Metal Gear Solids. Are they just out of ideas at this point?

    And seriously, who do I have to kill to get a Seiken Densetsu 3 official release in English?

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  • that's why u go 2 NIS or Atlus for your RPG now. Shin Megami Tensei ftw!

  • Good news: We're getting a remake of a good game.

    Bad news: It wasn't the game the fans asked for.

    I heard that Deus Ex is pretty good though even though that's technically not SE.

  • uh you said final fantasy 7... when you held up final fantasy 8? so my real worry is... HAVE YOU LOST YOUR FINAL FANTASY 7??? also square enix has been dead for a while....

  • The main problem with Square Enix is that they try to make another Final Fantasy VII, with every Final Fantasy they release, but as you said, it will never happen. Damn shame.

  • HEY!!! DID U HEAR?? there gonna remake Halo: Combat Evolved BUT IT'S GONNA BE IN HD! didn't they make that? like what? 10 years ago?

  • @SmokinSNYP3R

    Its in HD? Here I thought it was sub HD guess I was wrong.

  • @BLACKB0ND No you're right. "IT'S GONNA BE IN SUB HD!" thanks 4 correcting me bro.

  • @SmokinSNYP3R

    So that's one Halo Remake in a decade compared to what? The dozens of Square Enix remakes and ports lol

  • @BLACKB0ND Dozens of Square remakes? u best point me to the direction of said "remakes" so i can go out and buy that shit son! LMAO! Where they @?? U talkin about FF Tactics on DS/PSP??? tell me bro

  • @SmokinSNYP3R

    17 Remakes and 26 Ports. The data is all there man.

  • @BLACKB0ND did i just make u google "Square Enix remakes"? c'mon be honest! LOL! Point me to the direction man. I still wanna see these remakes bro. fact is u can't show me. Lots of Re-releases i know of but the only REMAKE i know of is HALO CE! If you like we can continue this debate OR u can STFU and accept facts. It's up 2 U bro.

  • @SmokinSNYP3R

    Um did you even watch the video? All data and games listed ARE IN THE VIDEO. My goodness.....

  • @BLACKB0ND Dude a watched all 12 min of your rant. U ain't talked about no damn remakes except for FFX (Which is not a remake it's a re-release) upscaled graphics and trophy support don't make it a new game. My opinion about Halo CE being a bullshit remake still stands. Either get over it or accept it.

  • @SmokinSNYP3R

    Clearly someone is blinded if he can't read lists, charts, and graphs. There is no hope for you small mind to comprehend math, numbers, and letters. Just give up. You can cry all you want about Halo its one remake in a decade compared to a company who's bulk of games are recycled from the past.

  • Shit, I'd love to see a Brave Fencer Musashi remake. That thing is SO unknown to so many people, and it's such a great game. I'd love to play it, but hey: that was when Square was SquareSOFT.

    They suck to me now, along with Capcom.

  • 1:48 - 2:10 you also just described Nintendo B0ND :D

  • @bequinta1

    Nintendo makes AAA titles and GOTY caliber games. Square Enix does not. NIntendo doesn't rely on remakes and ports.

  • I agree with this. I'm not big on RPGs but I knew that every game SquareSoft/Enix released were high quality. Those guys were the kings of gaming. Now, these guys fucking suck. You release a half assed FFXIII game, we don't see any new, exciting ips. All they can pump out is remakes. Its a shame really.

  • so you havent heard of bravely default? and you dont like some of the other amazing rpgs of this generation? the world ends with you? they have some great games and they are still the best at what they do rpgs.

  • @gamereviewsss and you are showing your games from the company from years past. but your problems with them are right now. and you clearly havent tried some of their games. but hey, im not denying they are recycling these games. but honestly. people ask for these remakes. and new age gamers didnt have the chance to play some of these masterful games.

  • what's up with the whole remastered HD thing? 

  • Trouble with Square is... well all its talent up and left.... there is an article I read in 2006, where the author goes on to state that Square has had trouble creating... and its funny how that article is so relevant to this day...

    but yeah I agree...

    one thing though.... I hate how people get this confused...

    HD Remasters are NOT, I repeat "NOT" remakes...

    a remake is what is going on with Halo C.E.... that's a remake...

    what Square is bringing is just a re master...

    great fucking rant bro!

  • Sorry for all the posts... but damn youtube can't fit everything in one god damn post, good video btw. Never seen you before but hey you have good points I'm suprised you don't have more views

  • There are too many things wrong with Square, really. Just a brief rundown:

    They no longer have Hironobu Sakaguchi. Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey? Great games. The Last Story also looks wonderful.

    Tetsuya Nomura is a character designer, not a director. He's a second-rate character designer at best (all of Kingdom Hearts's character look the same for a reason), and as a director he fails in virtually every way that counts.

  • They're trying to appeal to the "western market" without having any idea what said market is actually like. As a result most games lack an individual identity, much less a solid foundation.

    They spread themselves far too thin; in the last six years I can't recall a time they didn't have at least five games in development simultaneously.

  • Yoichi Wada is the idiot responsible for the overall direction Square goes in, as its President and CEO, and that direction is one of quantity over quality.

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  • Pizzagaki don't mind the HD remakes. Pizzagaki dislike the new ip from square!

  • The hair.......MY EYES!!!!!

  • Still waiting for kingdom hearts 3

  • I hear you man, I used to get every Square game on the PS1, and I have a ton on the PS2. I think I have only bought a single Square Enix game this generation and that was Last Remnant, which was decidedly mediocre.

  • Put yer hair back on :P 

  • This is what i want to know about this Final Fantasy 7 re-make that this Fan-Boys are still begging for.

    It get's remade in HD, O.K it will look a hell of alot better, but here's the thing, it will play EXACTLY THE SAME, and Squinex fans want this? Can someone explain please?

  • So where does the name Square Soft come from?

    Square was the original company name right? then they merged with Enix to create squinex but Square Soft?

  • @MrMcKane Squaresoft was the branding that Square (before the merge) used to put on the packaging of their games. Because of this, many people referred to the company as Squaresoft, which is incorrect.

  • @BLACKB0ND You went to PITT? How was it?

  • I am disappointed that you didn't show Chrono trigger.

  • I think the reason for Versus going into full developement was the fan backlash at 13, which scared them. They are already making quite a few changes (fixes) to 13-2 to placate those fans till the others eventually come out.

    As far as Im concerned, Versus and Type-0 (new name for Agito) are their last chances. 12 was ok, and I hate 13 so much.

    Thank god Xenoblade Chronicles came out, heard nothing but praise for it, my copy should arrive soon. Hopefully SE will take notes.

  • yo ffviii aint 7 lol

  • lol its no diff then the god of war collection being re done or the mgs series being re done. 

  • @2WIREG

    Except we get new Metal Gears and God of War's that are exceptional

  • didnt square have a hand in deus ex? not sure what role they played but i like that game. same with just cause 2.

  • @FaceVol5

    That's like saying Activision had a hand in Starcraft 2 and WOW. Same company but not really doing anything.

  • star ocean is really the only game series they've made that I ever really cared for.

  • @Nintendo1337leet

    And Tri Ace is the developer. Go figure right lol

  • Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2 will release in North America and Europe shortly. In the meantime, Square Enix are working on a remake of the very first Dragon Quest Monsters for Game Boy, titled Dragon Quest Monsters: Terry’s Wonderland 3D. They are at it again! LOL

  • hey Blackb0nd did you see the rhythm final fantasy game?

    Yeah i lost respect a long time ago with ff11. Trying to aim at the western market, but yet we only want the games like they were before enix formed.

  • Ill give Square a last chance, its gonna be versus 13 and FF15 whenever those come out... LOL

  • The best FF was final fantasy 6. After 9 I went to Namco with the Tales because I hated 10, 10-2, 11, and 12. Now I knew 13 was going to be garbage by looking at it. But I hated when these people say 13 was garbage because of 360. If ff13 was ps3 exclusive it will still be garbage. Because it had gay characters, gay story, gay game play, it was linear as fuck.

  • lol you showed FF8 and said it was ff7

  • I'm still buying XIII-2 because I happened to enjoy XIII...

  • Final Fantasy X on the vita… what a joke… same thing with MGS

  • Agree 100%. I already paid for these games which i play for the story/game play NOT the graphics.

    I want NEW games with fresh content, interesting characters and story's. Of course make NEW games in HD.

    Remaking games is the developers just being lazy and milking the fans over and over again with the same candy in a different wrapper. The "fans" have to take some responsibility for this as well though. We're the ones that are stupid enough to buy the same game multiple times.

  • I'd agree with you if it weren't for games such as dream drop distance and the world ends with you.

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  • great vid. only games i want from them are new IPs, a new star ocean, and Kingdom hearts 3

  • @jjwhite91 Don't hold your breath chances are they'll be more Kingdom Hearts spin offs. As a matter of fact another one is coming on the 3DS.

  • I was in 8th grade when Final Fantasy Versus 13 was shown, and I am now a sophmore in college.

    They revealed the damn game when I was 13 years old, I just turned 19 2 months ago, and the sad thing is......the game STILL wont be out when I'm 20.

  • @armymen4 huh ff vs 13 was only revealed in 2005...

  • @KnicksNY7 And like I said......I turned19 years old in the year 2011, that means I turned 13 in the year 2005.

    I am a sophmore in COLLEGE (not highschool), and i was going into the 8th grade when the game was revealed.

  • Square Enix Europe(Eidos) isn't that bad. Their are actually pretty good with games like Tomb Raider and Deus Ex. It's there main offices that I am really starting to hate. 

  • i completely agree 100% man! have every single final fantasy except for ff11 and ff14 cuz i hate mmo's, both crono games, vagrant story, all front missions, secret of mana, xenogears, FFtactics, dragonquest, etc the list goes on but ima run out of typing space. ff13 was the last straw and im done with that company. every final fantasy after 10 has sucked in my book. we need a new crono, dragonquest seems casual now and so does front mission. squareenix died for me awhile ago.

  • square enix,rare,capcom,activison,Ea =Fail.

  • @Prophet6000 don't forget sega

  • pitt huh? my boy larry fitzgerald is from there :D

  • @BLACKB0ND very true Mr Bond,

    game companies aren't what they use to be. but at least you guys are still getting HD remasters. me, I'm still waiting for that one faithfull day crystal dynamics pulls their dicks out there asses and finelly start making a true sequel to the legacy of kain franchise, one thats true to the story.

    all they keep doing is tomb raider sequels prequels reboots and spin off's,

    sigh!! I've been waiting eight long years for a new legacy of kain, I love that franchise :(

  • THANKY YOU IM GLAD TO SEE SOMEBODY SHARE MY OPINION ON THEM....KHDDD MADE ME MAD TOO

  • stop fucking crying about ff7 ffs.. square made this FF10 HD because FF10 this year made the 10 anniversary omg...

  • Ever since they released FFXIV and seeing how many bugs, glitches, and mess that was still in the game, and the fact that they haven't even talked about the PS3 version, Square-Enix has been very lackluster. I do like the Dissidia series and Birth by Sleep was nice, but they haven't really done anything impressive on consoles this gen.

    And I'm STILL waiting on Final Fantasy Versus XIII (No TGS announcement?!! BOOOOOO!!!)

  • 1:27...end of the video for me, lol after seein them games u held up looks like this company never had anything to offer from the jump, but hey nice cut B0ND! U look...cleaner lol

  • @ExposingLames of course you would say that, you barely started gaming this generation and COD is your favorite game ever. casual and irrelevant 4 life

  • @RageSTi06

    Is that suppose to be an insult?? LOL oh u fuckin nerds will never get it will u...oh and for the record Red Dead Redemtion is my fav game ever.

  • @ExposingLames its not an insult just a fact. you have no idea what the games that bond showed are about. what he showed is some of the best games of the last 2 gens. what you're doing is judging games you've never even touched or heard of before. red dead redemption is a decent game but not even close to a top 100 best games of all time at all. so your fav game ever is RDR and ur fav online/multiplayer game is cod. thats cool and all, but very casual. hell you've even said it yourself!

  • @RageSTi06 New generations gamers that only play shooters and don't know the good games.

  • @NerdyMoe ya pretty much simple yet very spot on! these new gen gamers who just like shooters dont know a quality exceptional game if it ever hit them in the head! but hey, it's their opinion i guess, but it's a shame all they know is mainstream casual titles and alot of it is due to them is judging a game off their cover LMFAO

  • @RageSTi06 Yep, I have a friend like that. Only plays COD and when I give him and tell him to try out other games he automatically says they suck without trying them. Sad really, but they are missing out on gaming greats.

  • @NerdyMoe believe me i know what you mean. all my friends who game only on consoles are fragheads/brogamers only like shooters call COD their all time multiplayer game. The games they only play are GTA, RDR, COD, Halo, and anything with a gun in third or first person perspective. every single of my friends who are pc gamers have consoles as a secondary gaming platform and they all the good previous gen classics regardless of genre, especially outside of shooters. im personally sick of shooters

  • @ExposingLames

    You've been exposed as a casual gamer. Now face the consequences! LOL

  • I don't think they are dead but your point is well received sir. they milk beyond the point of milking when it comes to their top name brands.

  • dude nice video but you made a mistake when you said that final fantasy 8 was final fantasy 7 but still you made some good points

  • @ApeCape92

    Yeah I did see that when I watched the video lol

  • Somebody's mad because they aren't making FF7 HD. ;D

  • i started hating them after 10 and tried 11 & 12 and did not want to try any more ff games.

  • @BLACKB0ND nice haircut bro

  • I just want a new Megaman game. ZX 3, X9, whatever lol. I understand how you feel though. You want new games instead of old ones you already played. Which is why I don't understand why people get all excited over hd remakes. It's good for new generation gamers and people who missed out though

  • I was never a Square Enix fan but I heard they're embracing "cloud gaming" and downloadable games. SMFH...

  • @Dionte38118

    Yay more downloadable ports.

  • soooo let's just pretend like the kingdom heart series aren't good games and u can go back to ur happy place

  • @Bswag2DaMax

    Lets pretend that Kingdom Hearts 2 didn't come out S-I-X years ago.

  • It's real funny when you do a looking at the state of the industry videos. No comments or views. It's sad people don't want to learn, and just want the bullshit.

    On to your point it's said, but it's the state of the industry.

  • @jodecideion

    YouTube is glitching lately

  • what u think of bravely default?

  • True, they havn't been exactly made "great" games this gen much. Though they still make some great games on handheld. Like Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep was amazing. But I see your point. I think Kingdom Hearts III could save them from they're "not so great" reputation atm.

  • i think the last square enix game i bought was final fantasy 7. i was too young to appreciate that game though

  • @stephenrodgers1000

    The World Ends With You was the last game I bought. I was given that trash FFXIII

  • square wasn't just one of the best, they were the best there for awhile. like capcom...shame really