I think that he is going overboard. Whether or not he agrees with it, the church made a decision, and that is the way it is. I actually think it was a positive decision, and it forces nobody to hire a gay or lesbian pastor, but simply allows churches to make the decision.
Liberal Christianity as a whole is indeed sobering. I'm a sinner, much more than a saint. That is why I NEED Jesus, His Cross, and the grace He offers me WHEN I come to Him in repentance. Blessing people into life long impenitent sin is nothing more than the work of Satan! I guess a tornado was not really a "big enough" message from God. I always wondered why Pharaoh would follow Moses across a slit Red Sea. The same reason the ELCA voted after a tornado. Satan has entered their hearts!
@pilot4321 Fear, fear... let be your heart filled with fear... I don't see any reason why people like you would agree with inclusiveness of the ELCA. You are free to leave my friend, just don't judge others because is GOD's business. May peace be with you.
@bistokna70 I'm LCMS (confessional Lutheranism). I love your don't judge comment, thats not the point of the text. God has the final judgement, of course, but we're to hold each other accountable to natural laws as Luther said. There is a difference in "meeting people where they are" and being "inclusive." One, you call a sin a sin, no matter what it is. The other, you just open your arms without Christian care for their souls. Which one is actually loving, loving in an eternal sense that is???
@pilot4321 I don't know LCMS. I do know that my Lutheran Church, the HKBP is sitting together with LWF members in Stuttgart, Germany. Your statement, "but we're to hold each other accountable to natural laws as Luther said" is sadly true but as a Lutheran I'm called to keep the reformation movement and if Luther knew what I know about sexual orientation I'm sure he'd reform his understanding of natural law which when there is love, there is GOD. When you feel loved you experienced GOD.
@bistokna70 You truely know nothing about Luther! I'm an American, and stand side by side with the SELK in Germany who holds the views my church body does. What is there to reform about natural law? Without modern medicine two homosexuals could not have children? Sounds to me like nature supports God's ascertions on that. Whether or not you agree does't really matter, ITS REALITY! Christians are to lovingly hold each other accountable, not to man's whims, but to God's Word, period.
@pilot4321 Well, I don't think American would have a same definition with Indonesian to many things. Is it natural for human to go from Los Angeles to New York in less than a day? We live in a modern time. You may reject what you called "modern medicine" but the fact that we can communicate with each other without knowing each other is modern in fact in Indonesia we called it post- modern. To me, a loving relationship does not means to create babies. Think China. Blessings.
@bistokna70 Yes, the context argument. This is the only thing the liberal church bodies have to say about their theology. We live in a different "context" than Jews or 1st century Christians, therefore what they wrote doesn't apply to us today, but societal norms. That would make you and everyone else who believes this "context" idea God! The problem is God will judge, not on society's standards, but on His alone, not the "current" context, but on what He inspired in the 1st century.
@bistokna70 Funny, the HKBP is not Lutheran is it? The LWF is a joke, yes they have the majority of Lutherans in the world (only because of Europe and the U.S), but outside of Europe and the U.S, the confessional, conservative Lutheran body (the International Lutheran Concil) has the most members in developing nations in Africa, Asia, and South America. BTW, "when you feel loved you experienced God?" Show me one place in the Bible that supports your statement. Even demons can show love!
@pilot4321 Well, HKBP or Huria Kristen Batak Protestan was founded by a German Misionary, I.L. Nomensen in Sumatra. Today, HKBP is 1 of 13 Indonesian Lutheran bodies who are member of the LWF. We used to deny ordination for women but we keep reforming ourself just like the ELCA. HKBP for Indonesian standard is not a big church, we only have a little over 4 million members. As for your question, try this 1 John 4 : 8. Look, if you aren't member of LWF we are not in the same communion.
@bistokna70 No, we're certainly not in the same communion. When one looks at 1 John 4:8 in "context" the focus or central point of John's discussion on love is found in 1 John 4:21. One should not read Scriptures out of context. If we love God, then we must love our Brother. How do you do that? By holding your brother accountable to God just as your brother holds you accountable, not accountable to society's norms, but only to the Word of God because that will be what you will be judged by!
@pilot4321 In topic I didn't see your ground other than sin, so I studied a little bit about LCMS and what I found that former LCMS (Seminex) members joined in the effort to start the ELCA. So, as I mentioned we're not in the same communion, therefore we have a different "context" in many things and in this topic my ground is love. I will never that GOD will judge, I will however, say GOD loves! John 3:16. I guess this is where I'll leave our conversation. May GOD be with you and your LCMS.
@bistokna70 Yes Seminex, thank God for it or we'd be just as heretical as the ELCA "Organization," not really a true church anymore. Is God love? Of course He is. Is God only love? It seems you think so, and the rest of the LWF does, but what do the Scriptures have to say? Well, the ELCA took historical-criticism, gospel reductionism, and "Level Three Meanings" to the point of destroying the Scriptures. Only what they believe is affirmed in Scripture. I guess they know more than God!
They trade the Word of God for their own fleshly desires. They
are more concerned with their own theism than the truth .How can you discuss God and his church and leave out His word? it is Hard to call these people Lutherans or Christians, They act like Pagan idol Worshipers, they have created a god to themselves. They might as well have carved it out of Stone!
I think that he is going overboard. Whether or not he agrees with it, the church made a decision, and that is the way it is. I actually think it was a positive decision, and it forces nobody to hire a gay or lesbian pastor, but simply allows churches to make the decision.
mattsplace85 1 year ago
Liberal Christianity as a whole is indeed sobering. I'm a sinner, much more than a saint. That is why I NEED Jesus, His Cross, and the grace He offers me WHEN I come to Him in repentance. Blessing people into life long impenitent sin is nothing more than the work of Satan! I guess a tornado was not really a "big enough" message from God. I always wondered why Pharaoh would follow Moses across a slit Red Sea. The same reason the ELCA voted after a tornado. Satan has entered their hearts!
pilot4321 2 years ago
@pilot4321 Fear, fear... let be your heart filled with fear... I don't see any reason why people like you would agree with inclusiveness of the ELCA. You are free to leave my friend, just don't judge others because is GOD's business. May peace be with you.
bistokna70 1 year ago
@bistokna70 I'm LCMS (confessional Lutheranism). I love your don't judge comment, thats not the point of the text. God has the final judgement, of course, but we're to hold each other accountable to natural laws as Luther said. There is a difference in "meeting people where they are" and being "inclusive." One, you call a sin a sin, no matter what it is. The other, you just open your arms without Christian care for their souls. Which one is actually loving, loving in an eternal sense that is???
pilot4321 1 year ago
@pilot4321 I don't know LCMS. I do know that my Lutheran Church, the HKBP is sitting together with LWF members in Stuttgart, Germany. Your statement, "but we're to hold each other accountable to natural laws as Luther said" is sadly true but as a Lutheran I'm called to keep the reformation movement and if Luther knew what I know about sexual orientation I'm sure he'd reform his understanding of natural law which when there is love, there is GOD. When you feel loved you experienced GOD.
bistokna70 1 year ago
@bistokna70 You truely know nothing about Luther! I'm an American, and stand side by side with the SELK in Germany who holds the views my church body does. What is there to reform about natural law? Without modern medicine two homosexuals could not have children? Sounds to me like nature supports God's ascertions on that. Whether or not you agree does't really matter, ITS REALITY! Christians are to lovingly hold each other accountable, not to man's whims, but to God's Word, period.
pilot4321 1 year ago
@pilot4321 Well, I don't think American would have a same definition with Indonesian to many things. Is it natural for human to go from Los Angeles to New York in less than a day? We live in a modern time. You may reject what you called "modern medicine" but the fact that we can communicate with each other without knowing each other is modern in fact in Indonesia we called it post- modern. To me, a loving relationship does not means to create babies. Think China. Blessings.
bistokna70 1 year ago
@bistokna70 Yes, the context argument. This is the only thing the liberal church bodies have to say about their theology. We live in a different "context" than Jews or 1st century Christians, therefore what they wrote doesn't apply to us today, but societal norms. That would make you and everyone else who believes this "context" idea God! The problem is God will judge, not on society's standards, but on His alone, not the "current" context, but on what He inspired in the 1st century.
pilot4321 1 year ago
@bistokna70 Funny, the HKBP is not Lutheran is it? The LWF is a joke, yes they have the majority of Lutherans in the world (only because of Europe and the U.S), but outside of Europe and the U.S, the confessional, conservative Lutheran body (the International Lutheran Concil) has the most members in developing nations in Africa, Asia, and South America. BTW, "when you feel loved you experienced God?" Show me one place in the Bible that supports your statement. Even demons can show love!
pilot4321 1 year ago
@pilot4321 Well, HKBP or Huria Kristen Batak Protestan was founded by a German Misionary, I.L. Nomensen in Sumatra. Today, HKBP is 1 of 13 Indonesian Lutheran bodies who are member of the LWF. We used to deny ordination for women but we keep reforming ourself just like the ELCA. HKBP for Indonesian standard is not a big church, we only have a little over 4 million members. As for your question, try this 1 John 4 : 8. Look, if you aren't member of LWF we are not in the same communion.
bistokna70 1 year ago
@bistokna70 No, we're certainly not in the same communion. When one looks at 1 John 4:8 in "context" the focus or central point of John's discussion on love is found in 1 John 4:21. One should not read Scriptures out of context. If we love God, then we must love our Brother. How do you do that? By holding your brother accountable to God just as your brother holds you accountable, not accountable to society's norms, but only to the Word of God because that will be what you will be judged by!
pilot4321 1 year ago
@pilot4321 In topic I didn't see your ground other than sin, so I studied a little bit about LCMS and what I found that former LCMS (Seminex) members joined in the effort to start the ELCA. So, as I mentioned we're not in the same communion, therefore we have a different "context" in many things and in this topic my ground is love. I will never that GOD will judge, I will however, say GOD loves! John 3:16. I guess this is where I'll leave our conversation. May GOD be with you and your LCMS.
bistokna70 1 year ago
@bistokna70 Yes Seminex, thank God for it or we'd be just as heretical as the ELCA "Organization," not really a true church anymore. Is God love? Of course He is. Is God only love? It seems you think so, and the rest of the LWF does, but what do the Scriptures have to say? Well, the ELCA took historical-criticism, gospel reductionism, and "Level Three Meanings" to the point of destroying the Scriptures. Only what they believe is affirmed in Scripture. I guess they know more than God!
pilot4321 1 year ago
Well Done. The world hates those who speak the truth, too bad its happening inside a church. Press on!
waylifetruth 2 years ago
He needs permission to preach from the Bible at a church conference?!?! What the heck? This is SOOOOOO insane!
MrsSarb 2 years ago
People Keep describing
what happened in Minneapolis as Godly work.
Ungodly not Godly Work, don't mistake it.
They trade the Word of God for their own fleshly desires. They
are more concerned with their own theism than the truth .How can you discuss God and his church and leave out His word? it is Hard to call these people Lutherans or Christians, They act like Pagan idol Worshipers, they have created a god to themselves. They might as well have carved it out of Stone!
jhlcms 2 years ago 2
i wonder if the SBC has any openings?
crimthann86 2 years ago
God help us - deliver your church out of this satanic heresy of homosexual ordination.
God, give boldness to your children to take back the church in JESUS name, not the ACLU.
lastdaysguitar 2 years ago
Way to go!
apeek33 2 years ago