Trotsky with Hitchens and Service Chapter 1 of 5

[freejazzandcheese1]

Robert Service's book is a waste of paper.

[Drac39]

R.I.P Christopher

[KapStuf]

Hitchens and Trotsky belong to that very small group of thinkers who, even when they're completely wrong, are never *stupid*, or shallow, or fraudulent.

Service on the other hand....

[spectorofdarkness]

Of course, this would be before Service was eviscerated by the AHR for his dismal work. However, the interview is still interesting for Hitchen's views

[jmslice16]

I constantly find myself wondering how Russia would have turned out if the Mensheviks would have gained power and the country had turned into a Democratic-Socialist parliament. The beginning of the Bolshevik Revolution did have good intentions for the people, but without any Democratic institutions it was bound to fall into a Totalitarian state run by those with the worst ambitions for ultimate power.

[robharris38]

The American Historical Review, among the oldest and most prestigious academic journals in the United States, has condemned Service’s biography of Trotsky, saying that it "fails to meet the basic standards of historical scholarship". The review has explicitly endorsed the critique of Service's book by David North, the chairman of both the Socialist Equality Party in the United States and the international editorial board of the World Socialist Web Site.

[ScottBrown666]

@robharris38 I was just about to say that.

[vashna3799]

Of him and stalin ,trotsky was the lesser of the two evils , communism was in the end unworkable for society's best interests (a fulfilled life for each individual) but capitilism certainly isn't the best answer unless you make up the top 5% of the world's population (the very rich)

[agapeiron]

Trotsky himself tried to whip up support for show trials against the Kronstadt rebels and the Makhnovist movement. Yet Trotskyists leap up in righteous indignation when Stalin had his show trials for Snowball.

The ice pick was just the tactics of Leninism coming home to roost.

Leninism is and has always been a cancer on socialism. It attracts authoritarian nutters, which is why the turnover rate to right wing realpolitik has been so high. Hence this souse from Oxford...

[alecrebel]

Trotsky is responsible for the deaths of thousands ... (see Kronstadt sailors for example). Like most Bolsheviks, he was a machiavelian and opportunistic creep, a reptile who attempted to gain total control over his future victims. In fact, early on, he had signaled his apetites for mayhem and murder but missed future opportunities to go into full swing because Stalin outdid him when he smelled a rat; and subsequently killed him, like most of the trolls who criticized or opposed him.

[JoshuaCromarty]

Hitchens calls himself an ex Trotskyist yet agrees with the arch anti-communist Service half the time. For all the spirited rhetoric I've seen him launch at other times he was utterly feeble in this encounter... it's a measure of how far he has slipped from his roots... coming by Trotsky's ideas while engaged in anti-Viet Nam protests and now lauding US imperialist ventures from the Balkans to Iraq. What a neo-con...

[mattandersonWSWS]

Robert Service and other leading British academics have launched a campaign of historical falsification, slandering Trotsky, and denying his historical significance. The purpose of the campaign is to prevent young people coming into political struggle from learning about Trotsky's political legacy. David North of the World Socialist Website has written a number of essays in defence of Trotsky - see "Political biography and the historical lie: An examination of Robert Service’s Trotsky" on wsws

[etoandmessi]

@vastable How did Trotsky have his own chauffeur, a first class apartment, a telephone, a refrigerator in New York, when he had no income and couldn't speak English? Why did Wilson issue Trotsky his passport to get to the Halifax in Canada?

[s0673451]

I've been watching this. Frankly, don't waste your time. The host seems like the one with the most sense.

[TerrySleeper]

I am reading Deutscher's 3-vol biog of Trotsky at the moment.

It is in another league entirely from Service's paltry efforts.

Believe me.

[Counterrevolutionite]

Trotsky and Hitchens = two Europhobic Yids. Their involvement in politics is purely in the interests of Jewry, hoping to use Europeans as canon fodder along the way.

[ButherLi55ett]

Three massive cunts.

[TerrySleeper]

Service's book is pretty awful - he can't get even basic facts right, let alone interpretations of Trotsky's politics and actions.

How it ever got past the proof-readers I will never know.

[KenMacMillan]

In a country where the sole employer is the State, opposition

means death by slow starvation. The old principle: who does

not work shall not eat, has been replaced by a new one: who

does not obey shall not eat.

L. Trotsky, 1937.

[celocarvalho7]

In The Service of Historical Falsification: A Review of Robert Service's Trotsky

wsws .o rg /articles /2009/nov2009/serv-n11.s ht ml

[8503sk]

Service also let his ego interfere: claimed it was the only full biography on Trotsky not done by a Trotskyist. What about Volkogonov? He was the head of the declassifying of the Soviet archives, 1st one in; in 1996 he published an excellent work on Trotsky. It was balanced and objective. Showed his human side mixed with crazy qualities--ordering rear of army to shoot those in front. He has the real definitive non-bias work on Trotsky (his other works on Lenin, Stalin are great too).

[8503sk]

As a historian who likes Service's work on Lenin, I don't understand how he allowed such subjective attitudes and historical inaccuracies in this latest book. He didn't take time to do the research, but messed up things like dates, sayings Azef was assassinated when he wasn't, complete falsifications on Trotsky's attitude toward his Jewish heritage, etc.

[MikhailSilverwood]

If you're going to have a debate about Trotsky, then why not a person from each side.

On the side of anti-Bolshevism, all socialism is evil, we have Robert Service, who is despised in by all Marxists.

On the other side we have a pro-Bolshevist, true socialism is wonderful and Stalin is evil, such as Tony Cliff, Chris Harman, Paul D'Amato, Sandra Bloodworth, John Molyneux, Ashley Smith or someone like that.

That's a fair debate - not this crap.

[trailofdeadpeople]

thanks for posting dude.

[jeffmaylor]

The reason why Hitchens continues to defend these old Communists and Butchers is transparent. He for a committed Leftist for the first 50 years of his life, having recently reincarnated himself as a Neocon. He has create the illusion that some of these old butchers had some redeeming qualities in order to exculpate himself.

[CosmosLoyal]

jeffmaylor You must have had to completely change the definition of conservative with a tremendous act of doublethink to come up with the nonsensical belief that Hitchens is a conservative. Does sticking the immensely fashionable word neo in front of words re-write the dictionary these days? Either that or you're a credulous cheerleader who swallows up whatever the current consensus is. Judging by the rest of the McCarthyist propaganda that you have spewed out I'll go for the latter.

[cinesimonj]

@CosmosLoyal Talking Mccarthist nonsense, it seems you believe that your American version of conservatism is the only form, and therefore anyone who says different is somehow 'Mccarthist'. Classic -projection there, kiddo.

Not even Regan would be acceptable as a current-day 'conservative'.

[benthejrporter]

Just listened to Peter Taaffe's critique of this vid, so I'd better hear the other side of the story now.

[bfoaliali]

@benthejrporter hey, where is that video?

[benthejrporter]

@bfoaliali Is it gone?

[truefakeness]

They really couldn't have picked two individuals less qualified to give a worthwhile assessment of Trotsky.

[cheburashka1326]

Who would you pick to discuss Trotsky instead of them?

[arthurdonachy]

@cheburashka1326 artur koestler & eric blair

[TheWord911]

This guy Service is a joke. In his "History of World Communism", that is two years before he wrote the biography, he even got Trotsky's date of death wrong. All he can do is making derogatory statements without proving anything.

[LoopholemanIII]

Yeah, it's really hard to equate Trotsky to say Stalin or Mao, which is what most American associate communism and socialism with today.

[KenMacMillan]

Did you watch this whole interview?

[dontleademsomuch]

wow im reading that book right now

[raskolnikov1873]

I'm no communist and I find most of the leading figures of the Russian Revolution repulsive. However, I have a certain affection for Trotsky. I have read his account of the Revolution and his writing is magnificent; his genius shines through on every page. Moreover, he truly is one of those rare birds who combines a gift for ideas with a gift for action. Hitchens is quite right to find in Trotsky a certain quality which can claim our admiration. Interesting talk.

[bonfirejovi]

@raskolnikov1873 wasnt trotsky the leader of the red army?

[bonfirejovi]

@raskolnikov1873 Did you get to the part where he founds the Red Army which slaughters 3 million people?

[unfad1ng]

@raskolnikov1873

Trotsky certainly was the brightest of the bolsheviks. Even thought i believe in Capitalism and free trade i can still admire a person like Trotsky, like you

[timetochilli]

@raskolnikov1873 even if soviet union was real communism we should oppose it 100 hundered percent it had no freedom

[keelorenz]

Can't we all just get along?

[mongobobo]

Don't tase me, bro!

[FaxanaduJohn]

@mongobobo

Sometimes it's way too hot! Sometimes it's friggin' cold!

[checkunderyourbed]

You obviously don't, fuck face.

[ruggeroization]

are you kidding me bro