@saliorsam41 you are totally right Jesus says you are to love your enemies matthew 5:43,44.....just goes to show they do not PREACH the word ! "They do not walk like Jesus walked" ! (this is what they say they do)
Are you the one on this audio? I stopped going to the meetings and being an active witness when I was 19. I am 30 now and this audio made shutter... I felt the same way I felt when I was in my committee when I was 16... Send me a message... Thank you for uploading... An eye opening piece...
Some of them are. I've met plenty of asshole Elders back then. Some of them are genuinely kind, though, and really do want to help, even if they're part of a huge problem. Let's just not paint all of them with the same brush - that's their mistake to make; not ours.
@TheExoticPhoenix Very fine post. I'm glad you are glad. The set-up is exact as you say. I been in several of these daft meetings, most for me, covertly recording the 'business end' (last 2)
Its of much note that when i was the observer of a JW's bad, having to 'go through that' gig, that 'elders' viewed me officially - in a more unctuous obsequious way. Yet WHEN I was up 'on the dock' by their personal calumny of invented charges (&& obvious obloquy) - their "shepherding" was wire-wool coated.
Romans 14:4 - Who are you to judge anothers servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed He is made to stand for God is able to make Him stand. Thank God we have one and one only we show oursleves to and that is Jesus Christ Himself. AS with anything concerning the watchtower society ( JW's) they twist the Word of God to fit their beliefs, not believe what the Word of God actually says. I'm not suprised that anyone would be treated this way by a cult.
> AS with anything concerning the watchtower society ( JW's) they twist the Word of God to fit their beliefs, not believe what the Word of God actually says.
It's not just JWs. Anyone can make the bible say anything they want. It's a book written by many people with very different concepts of Yahweh throughout the ages, each with a very different outlook on what Yahweh would want. Hell, some stories are self-contradictory just because of a geographical difference!
The fact that these elders cared so little about your eternal life and membership in the congregation and were so disinterested in helping you speaks volumes. Stuff like this is a stumbling block and pushes people away from Jehovah. My faith is my own, between me and Jehovah. What matters is what Jehovah thinks. I will continue going to the Kingdom Hall because it helps me spiritually, but I refuse to blindly accept anything. Prove it with the Bible and then I will believe.
Wow, just wow. I am disgusted with these elders. The way these elders behaved is totally unloving and prideful. Every one can and should question and discover their beliefs for themselves. Jehovah wants those that worship him out of free will and faith, not blind conformity. If someone says something is a Biblical teaching, they need to back it up with the Bible. The elders were wrong to dismiss you and refuse to answer your questions. I am sad for Jehovah.
1 Timothy 5:20,21 basically says to not do anything according to a biased leaning or prejudgement (gist). I heard no representation of the God I know from the parable of the prodigal son and other areas of the bible. If Jehovah can forgive someone like Manassah then I think you're not that bad.
Matthew 5:43,44 says," You heard that it was said, " You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, However, I say to you : Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you," verse 45 says : that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes His sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. I am a JW and elders are expected to do what Jesus would do. These elders need to be deleted asap!
Matthew 5:43,44 says," You heard that it was said, " You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, However, I say to you : Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you," verse 45 says : that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes His sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. I am a JW and elders are expected to do what Jesus would do. These elders need to be deleted asap!
Thanks for posting this video! I have family that are JW's, I have never been one cause I looked into them before I did anything; and my findings kept me from joining. What steps do you recommend one to take, in order to shine the truth to such programed individuals? It is sad to see them spend more time with their congregation, than with their own flesh and blood family.
I wish I would have taped my judicial committee meeting. All of the ridiculous questions and rude statements I think if witnesses got to hear how rude these elders are in these meeting it might open their eyes
@babbabybwoo He was suggesting that the Governing Body wasn't the "faithful and discreet slave" found at Matthew 24:45 and that the Watchtower wasn't God's organization. The elder said that he hated him because he insulted Jehovah God in Jehovah's house.
I don't understand one thing, IchthysGuy. Why do you jump from the frying pan into the fire? You know JWs are bullshit now but you decided to jump to some other Christian sect - why just jump from one delusion into the other?
@laflugantabastardo As C. S. Lewis would say, I like to think of myself as "merely Christian." I don't really need any other denomination than that. In that regard, I don't see why you're assuming that I'm a member of any "sect" at all. In fact I am not. So, immediately you're in error and not on a good footing to convince me that I've jumped to any "delusion."
Regardless whether or not you are part of a sect, you have not fully let go of the delusion, as the recording shows. You have merely accepted another dogma (in this case the trinity). I guess the question really is: 'Your beliefs have been so thoroughly shattered; why just jump to another kind of Christianity, when it's really based on the same Canaanite myths?'
Why didn't you just disassociate yourself without debating with the elders? You knew that the Watchtower wasn't going to change its position on certain matters, so the debate that you had with the elders was pointless. You must be "united in the same mind and in the same line of thought" with other members of the congregation. (1Co. 1:10) You cannot disagree with the Governing Body and remain a member of God's organization. It's that simple.
@CoolBreeze250 Unity != Uniformity. What you should have said is "you cannot disagree with the Governing Body... at all, even in the smallest of matters... without being shunned by all your former friends and family still stuck in this manipulative cult." It's that simple.
@IchthysGuy Well, it was your own fault. Apparently, you were causing divisions or trying to cause divisions within the Christian congregation, and the elders had to remove you. (Ro. 16:17,18)
@CoolBreeze250 "Apparently." You have no personal acquaintance with the matter other than this video series I've posted where one of the elders in question admits he absolutely hates me, and you still insist on saying this is perfectly legitimate?
I was not trying to cause divisions. I was asking questions.
@IchthysGuy You're not fooling me. Your intent was to debate with the elders, and you had no desire to be readjusted. The elder in question is justified in saying that he hates you the same way Jehovah does. I don't normally converse with apostates, but your judicial committee hearing was so offensive that I felt the need to respond. You couldn't just disassociate yourself without causing a scene. You had to go out with a bang so-to-speak.
@CoolBreeze250 Your citation of Romans 16:17,18 to support hatred is really rather sickening. I only hope you're not the victim of one of these farsical tribunals yourself when the elders find out you're conversing with a disassociated person online against the explicit instructions of the tyrannical Watchtower society. Fortunately for myself I already had found the truth before I officially left. Others have not been so fortunate and suffered accordingly.
Never stood a chance! So, in a nutshell, it's okay for anyone to LEAVE their religion, or question their religious doctrine...as long as its not Jehovah's Witness Doctrine? Double-Standard? "Let us show you why you should leave your religion and join us! Oh, once you join...don't ask us questions or debate with us, okay. And you can never leave peacefully with dignity." WINNING!!! They seem to be more powerful than the Government.
I hate these fucking jackasses. ive lived with this pious, judgemental, stupidity my whole life. no fucking love here. just a fucking corporate witch hunt. if you've ever worked in a pyramid scheme or corporation with multi-level management you will recognize this whole fucking style of borg-minded, fucked up bull-shit. i hate these fucking people. Odds are the fucked up son of a bitch judging you is a fucking pedophile. They're going to be eating their words at the next "new light" convention.
On the one hand its THEIR club,organization,cult,closed group,closed control group,call it what you will. They can make the rules to govern their club and legally not have to give 2 shits on how it effects YOU or how you feel when THEY kick you out. I think this approach IS justified. Normally those being DFd are distraught.This person showed a logica hard to refute stance the elders found threatening as SINCERE only means sympathetic to the WTS a battle the elders surely would of lost
Hey man, if I might ask a favor, why not try putting subtitles into this vid so we can understand what's being said? My internet is fast enough to view a YT vid (Though only if I frequently pause and let it load a bit) but running a vid and another window is pretty much impossible. I think subtitles would help out a lot, and YT has some good resources for just that.
Anyway, that's why I dont go. I agree with a lot of the doctrines. I just dont agree how they treat the flock. I've got some incredible stories, but will keep them to myself, and let Jehovah take care of them when the right time comes. But, I will not waste my time campaigning against them.
I'm not sure if I'll ever go back. Not sure if I could survive another JC, and be judged by people that already have their minds made up, instead of listening and truley attempting to help somebody. It's like it's not based on love and attempting to help. It's based on punishment,
I was already in a JC about 4 yrs ago. Survived the torture of going to the meetings , while people look at you as though you're a dog. Not fun. It doesnt end after being re-enstated, the treatment that is.
All in all , I dont hate Jehovah, am on the position to label anybody as such.
I don't know about Arizona law , but if you say it was legal, I believe you. I still do not think it was ethical to record the session, especially since they asked you before hand. The fact that it was not taped but digitally recorded is bogus. You know what they meant.
As far as him hating you as God does, I think he was out of line. Who are we to presume what God really thinks . There are things God hates , and he may hate what we do at times. Jehovah is a loving God, and wants everybody
@fadedjeans64 "While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it." - Aid to Bible Understanding (1971) p.1061
@fadedjeans64 "God's Word commands: 'Speak truth each of you with his neighbor.' (Eph. 4:25) This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive." - Watchtower 06/01/1960 p.351
So, long story short, we have a double standard here. The Watchtower can be "evasive" in order to engage in "theocratic warfare" but we Christians can't do the same?
@fadedjeans64 Finally, Mr. Jeans, the elder in question was simply reiterating what the Watchtower itself teaches about how JWs are to view and treat former members. Note the following quote...
"No matter how pleasant, how enticing, wicked things are to the fallen flesh, we must abhor them, even as the apostle commands. (Rom. 12:9) More than that, we want to hate those who willfully show themselves haters of Jehovah, haters of what is good." - Watchtower 06/15/1980 p.8
@fadedjeans64 So be careful. If you don't hate me, as you're supposed to, and say that's really not right, you might just find yourself in a JC meeting of your own. Since, as the elder in question also went on to say "We do not tolerate dissent."
I'm inactive and I believe the Elders are correct and that the gentleman did not want to listen , but simply debate . What he did was illegal, to record the session. Polititians and any body in a high position would lose there job or position for recording a meeting illegally. The elder was composed and defended the congregation and their faith. He did the right thing to end the meeting. It's obvious it was going nowhere since the accused had his mind made up already. The letter proved it.
@fadedjeans64 Sorry, but you're wrong. In the state of Arizona it is perfectly permissible to record any conversation, as long as at least one party to that conversation (i.e. me) is aware. What I did was perfectly legal.
That being said, did you think the elder was perfectly justified in saying he hates me and God hates me? Curious to see what you think about that...
Alll you had to say was that you did not believe the teaching on the 1444,00. It would seem to me that you knew very well what the teacings were and wanted a debate to establish your view. They were never going to debate or change their view on the 144,000 as I'm sure you knew. You knew their reasoning would be as the Watchtower describes and had already decided this was wrong so you were not going to be re adjusted even if they tried. The honest thing was to dissassociate.
@bob195531 I did disassociate. But in the mean time I thought I'd give them the chance to "adjust [my] thinking" as they said they wanted to. Instead they took issue with my questions and refused to answer them. So, when they insisted they weren't going to talk to me any further, I handed them my letter of disassociation.
Every religion has an organisation it did in Jerusalem too so all the governing body is is a body of men providing governence. If you belive that body is not spirit anointed or believe in their teaching of the 144,000 and therfore the Jehovah's Witnesses church is wrong in its teachings then the simple thing to have done is to have left it. (continued part 3)
I have listened to the 3 recordings. In christian times the bible does not clarify how a judicial meeting should be held but is clear the ministers of the congregationhave a duty to keep the congregation clean. The elders are the ministers of the congregation and as in any other church are part of the ones given responsibility to manage its affairs on behalf of the congregation. (continued in part 2)
man you went straight to the point as a JW's i can say those questions you asked cannot be answered in direct quotation from the bible. I agree with you in your stand however in the whole world there is no other religion that will try to have his followers live a clean life. I think you are right things are not the way we wish them to be. What we have to do is live with that my brother. God will show himself one day from now wait but don't regret what you know don't go through the open gate.
@robsonidasouza I don't regret what I know. I wouldn't trade what I know for the world. I've already gone through the open gate--the narrow one--the one that is opened by Jesus Himself. For the invitation is open to all who would heed the call.
We don't have to live with tyranny and oppression, for "we must obey God rather than men!" God already showed me the way, and that way is Jesus (John 14:6).
No wonder your judicial meeting was cut short, just listen to you. You were not sincere, you went there looking for an argument, and just like the elder saId you insult Jehovah's house. And to accuse the committee of being apostate mate when it is definitely you who is the APOSTATE. They knew what your motive's were and so do I you've exposed yourself as being an enemy of God, it's all over your vids. There's two sides to every story and it is clear where you are coming from dude.
@MrOnamision1 His motive was to question his religion. Everyone should have the right to question their religion. If their religion is God's religion than there should be no problem and they should be able to answer questions. If their religion teaches that any form of questioning is an act of Satan then you have blind faith in a mind controlling cult.
I was accused of apostasy and slandered throughout the congregation. I didnt know any apostates,didnt have a computer,and wasnt doing apostasy. But their actions drove me out. I was not disfellowshipped but I'm not going back.
I'm confused, So the Watchtower society disfellowshipped you, so now you will parrish and not have everlasting life. So does that mean that the Watchtower society is the true author of John 3:16?
If you came to be readjusted then how come you already had a letter of disassociation? It kind of comes off as you did kind of have your mind made up about the organization.
@jonmckane You're right, I did have my mind made up... but my mind was and is still open (unlike the elders, apparently, who didn't really bother to actually address any critical questions).
I was more than sure I was going to have to disassociate myself that night, and in fact if they had let me read more than one sentence from the letter, you'd start to understand why.
The fact that I bothered to attend the meeting at all was a last gesture of invitation for them to actually engage me in serious debate and attempt to change my mind. Instead, they simply insisted I already had a "mindset" and so I couldn't possibly want it readjusted, which is a ludicrous line of reasoning. If I wasn't willing to have it readjusted, I wouldn't have bothered attending in the first place.
To each their own, I just don't see what you truly stand to gain by letting this anger you enough to make a scene about it. If I was in your shoes I'd just drop it and move on with my life
This is nothing more than the catholic inquisition without the physical tortue tools. All of the rest is there, the mental, emotional, and spiritual abuse & abandonment of those they deny the right to examine all things interpreted & re-written by man. John 15: 21 - But they will do all these things against you on account of My name, because they do not know Him Who sent Me. To anybody who has been through this traumatic abuse, my heart goes out to you. God bless & protect all of you !!
again-you didnt want to be helped-you only wanted to try to argue, you already had your mind made up-you went in with a bad attitude, and its not up to us to change what you dont want to change
If someone at the door asked you "So in regards to this Watchtower society, what should my thinking be today in regards to it?" -- Does that demonstrate a bad attitude?
Or how about you make some kind of asinine doctrinal assertion like "Jesus is actually Michael, the Archangel". If they reasonably ask "Is there a biblical basis for that?" -- Does that demonstrate a bad attitude?
How about this, if I ask you a question but I honestly don't care about your answer because my resolve in the answer I have formulated would make asking the question condescending and pretentious. Instead of playing the victim and using public forums to cry about it, maybe you should actually do the research and stop your childish public ranting.
The guy went in with question, okay they were in debate form, but questions none the less and very reasonable question at that. However, these questions were refused answers over and over and over again.
How is a person to see the error of their way if they are not shown the error?
If you can answer the question asked, please do see.
If you can't answer any of the questions then I maybe you should think of asking them (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
um, did anyone posting even LISTEN to the whole video? The guy who was here in the first place, didnt come to find answers-he came to debate, he came to try and discredit what we believe, he came to try and cause problems. Any elder or anyone in a congregation can see that this guy was doing nothing more than being a jackass-and such they did as they where supposed to do-cast him out
We present what we believe, and if you want to accept it-do so. If not deny it and be done. But it is not our job as Christian witnesses to "Adjust your thinking"
I can NOT believe some of the stuff these guys said to you here. Really it's insane. The decision was made before you even stepped in the door. Thanks for posting this, it... well... to be honest it makes me sad.
What did John do after all this?
Angies3babies 1 month ago in playlist More videos from IchthysGuy
I absolutely LOVE this! Thank you so much for sharing! What happened to the elder who kept asking, "Why won't you answer his questions?"
Angies3babies 1 month ago in playlist More videos from IchthysGuy
@saliorsam41 you are totally right Jesus says you are to love your enemies matthew 5:43,44.....just goes to show they do not PREACH the word ! "They do not walk like Jesus walked" ! (this is what they say they do)
Jesransam 1 month ago
Holy place? What a joke. And where does the Bible say we are to hate our enemies.
SailorSam41 1 month ago
HA HA HA you're just annoyed they had your number within 3 seconds and didn't give you a chance to rant!
Fizzypop1211 1 month ago
wow what a cult
Bibl3Thumper 2 months ago
amazing! great job.
17lolis17 2 months ago
Disgusting. I hope more people hear this.
jtgunz 2 months ago
Are you the one on this audio? I stopped going to the meetings and being an active witness when I was 19. I am 30 now and this audio made shutter... I felt the same way I felt when I was in my committee when I was 16... Send me a message... Thank you for uploading... An eye opening piece...
arielgalindo1981 2 months ago
I know what pricks and liars that Elders are...They make allegations with no specifics and tell lies right through their dentures.
bookwormaesthetcs 2 months ago
@TheExoticPhoenix
Some of them are. I've met plenty of asshole Elders back then. Some of them are genuinely kind, though, and really do want to help, even if they're part of a huge problem. Let's just not paint all of them with the same brush - that's their mistake to make; not ours.
laflugantabastardo 2 months ago
@TheExoticPhoenix Very fine post. I'm glad you are glad. The set-up is exact as you say. I been in several of these daft meetings, most for me, covertly recording the 'business end' (last 2)
Its of much note that when i was the observer of a JW's bad, having to 'go through that' gig, that 'elders' viewed me officially - in a more unctuous obsequious way. Yet WHEN I was up 'on the dock' by their personal calumny of invented charges (&& obvious obloquy) - their "shepherding" was wire-wool coated.
De5O54 2 months ago
"If it goes in the same direction, we’re happy to meet with you"
"I knew you were lying"
Forget the pre-packaged, off-the-rack, shrink-wrapped, bar-coded, run-of-the-mill, default setting, publisher peddling, standard issue Jehovah's Witness.
Being an 'elder' that is supposed to be appointed [Lie], && having to keeeep up that 'judicial meeting' [Lie] soap opera, brain damage, carry-on.
Less educated = more 'elder'. They are idiots! I could not fake that, It's like they're hypnotised.
De5O54 2 months ago in playlist More videos from IchthysGuy 4
Ok god damn it......put your hands behind your back....you're under house arrest.
999Atwood 3 months ago
Romans 14:4 - Who are you to judge anothers servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed He is made to stand for God is able to make Him stand. Thank God we have one and one only we show oursleves to and that is Jesus Christ Himself. AS with anything concerning the watchtower society ( JW's) they twist the Word of God to fit their beliefs, not believe what the Word of God actually says. I'm not suprised that anyone would be treated this way by a cult.
jlwohio 4 months ago
@jlwohio
> AS with anything concerning the watchtower society ( JW's) they twist the Word of God to fit their beliefs, not believe what the Word of God actually says.
It's not just JWs. Anyone can make the bible say anything they want. It's a book written by many people with very different concepts of Yahweh throughout the ages, each with a very different outlook on what Yahweh would want. Hell, some stories are self-contradictory just because of a geographical difference!
laflugantabastardo 2 months ago
Sir, you are awesome!!!! You totally owned these guys!
italiaholic 4 months ago 2
We just wrote a letter it was so much easier, I am so glad we left. We are now born again Christians thank God.
GT1968able 4 months ago
That so called elder is a (---ohhh I can't type what is on my mind---). Whatever 'god' that elder has over him... I sure don't want any of it on me!
barbsinclair 4 months ago
The fact that these elders cared so little about your eternal life and membership in the congregation and were so disinterested in helping you speaks volumes. Stuff like this is a stumbling block and pushes people away from Jehovah. My faith is my own, between me and Jehovah. What matters is what Jehovah thinks. I will continue going to the Kingdom Hall because it helps me spiritually, but I refuse to blindly accept anything. Prove it with the Bible and then I will believe.
MissNix4Ever 4 months ago 2
@MissNix4Ever
Ever tried going another step further?
laflugantabastardo 2 months ago
Wow, just wow. I am disgusted with these elders. The way these elders behaved is totally unloving and prideful. Every one can and should question and discover their beliefs for themselves. Jehovah wants those that worship him out of free will and faith, not blind conformity. If someone says something is a Biblical teaching, they need to back it up with the Bible. The elders were wrong to dismiss you and refuse to answer your questions. I am sad for Jehovah.
MissNix4Ever 4 months ago
Wow. I'm speechless. Awesome job. Thank you.
rollerdavem 4 months ago
@rollerdavem To come to this 'holy' place the Kingdom hall is NOT holy. God does not dwell in handmade temples!!!!
girlznguitarz 4 months ago
Tell me, when they told you that they were done with you, did you feel a nice cool breeze enter the room?
pretoshohmoofc 4 months ago
1 Timothy 5:20,21 basically says to not do anything according to a biased leaning or prejudgement (gist). I heard no representation of the God I know from the parable of the prodigal son and other areas of the bible. If Jehovah can forgive someone like Manassah then I think you're not that bad.
SuperRev144 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Matthew 5:43,44 says," You heard that it was said, " You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, However, I say to you : Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you," verse 45 says : that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes His sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. I am a JW and elders are expected to do what Jesus would do. These elders need to be deleted asap!
SuperRev144 4 months ago
Matthew 5:43,44 says," You heard that it was said, " You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, However, I say to you : Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you," verse 45 says : that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes His sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. I am a JW and elders are expected to do what Jesus would do. These elders need to be deleted asap!
SuperRev144 4 months ago
Thanks for posting this video! I have family that are JW's, I have never been one cause I looked into them before I did anything; and my findings kept me from joining. What steps do you recommend one to take, in order to shine the truth to such programed individuals? It is sad to see them spend more time with their congregation, than with their own flesh and blood family.
thevladimir 5 months ago
What a group of fools! People really fall for the Witness garbage and their distorting scriptures. How do people fall for their garbage?
MrFBCBSALES 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
JWs followers have lost their minds......
sovern009 7 months ago
@babbabybwoo Yes, I do. I hate this guy with a passion.
CoolBreeze250 8 months ago
@CoolBreeze250 Thanks again for illustrating the point. Please do keep posting :)
IchthysGuy 8 months ago
@IchthysGuy Oh, I definitely will. You can believe that!
CoolBreeze250 8 months ago
@IchthysGuy lol lol lol lol That was too funny.
sovern009 7 months ago
I wish I would have taped my judicial committee meeting. All of the ridiculous questions and rude statements I think if witnesses got to hear how rude these elders are in these meeting it might open their eyes
byran24phx 8 months ago
@babbabybwoo He was suggesting that the Governing Body wasn't the "faithful and discreet slave" found at Matthew 24:45 and that the Watchtower wasn't God's organization. The elder said that he hated him because he insulted Jehovah God in Jehovah's house.
CoolBreeze250 8 months ago
@babbabybwoo The proof's in the videos. He was trying to discredit the elders, and that was why he already had his disassociation letter on him.
CoolBreeze250 8 months ago
@babbabybwoo No, you're wrong. The elders were trying to readjust him, but he didn't want to be readjusted. (Ga. 6:1)
CoolBreeze250 8 months ago
Could the uploader please annotate this video as well. It was such a great help in the last 2 vids in this series!
kaosushijin 8 months ago
I don't understand one thing, IchthysGuy. Why do you jump from the frying pan into the fire? You know JWs are bullshit now but you decided to jump to some other Christian sect - why just jump from one delusion into the other?
laflugantabastardo 8 months ago
@laflugantabastardo As C. S. Lewis would say, I like to think of myself as "merely Christian." I don't really need any other denomination than that. In that regard, I don't see why you're assuming that I'm a member of any "sect" at all. In fact I am not. So, immediately you're in error and not on a good footing to convince me that I've jumped to any "delusion."
tk31337 8 months ago
@tk31337
Regardless whether or not you are part of a sect, you have not fully let go of the delusion, as the recording shows. You have merely accepted another dogma (in this case the trinity). I guess the question really is: 'Your beliefs have been so thoroughly shattered; why just jump to another kind of Christianity, when it's really based on the same Canaanite myths?'
laflugantabastardo 8 months ago
Why didn't you just disassociate yourself without debating with the elders? You knew that the Watchtower wasn't going to change its position on certain matters, so the debate that you had with the elders was pointless. You must be "united in the same mind and in the same line of thought" with other members of the congregation. (1Co. 1:10) You cannot disagree with the Governing Body and remain a member of God's organization. It's that simple.
CoolBreeze250 9 months ago
@CoolBreeze250 Unity != Uniformity. What you should have said is "you cannot disagree with the Governing Body... at all, even in the smallest of matters... without being shunned by all your former friends and family still stuck in this manipulative cult." It's that simple.
IchthysGuy 9 months ago 6
@IchthysGuy Well, it was your own fault. Apparently, you were causing divisions or trying to cause divisions within the Christian congregation, and the elders had to remove you. (Ro. 16:17,18)
CoolBreeze250 9 months ago
@CoolBreeze250 "Apparently." You have no personal acquaintance with the matter other than this video series I've posted where one of the elders in question admits he absolutely hates me, and you still insist on saying this is perfectly legitimate?
I was not trying to cause divisions. I was asking questions.
IchthysGuy 9 months ago
@IchthysGuy You're not fooling me. Your intent was to debate with the elders, and you had no desire to be readjusted. The elder in question is justified in saying that he hates you the same way Jehovah does. I don't normally converse with apostates, but your judicial committee hearing was so offensive that I felt the need to respond. You couldn't just disassociate yourself without causing a scene. You had to go out with a bang so-to-speak.
CoolBreeze250 9 months ago
@CoolBreeze250 Thank you for your comments. You have just publicly illustrated the point.
IchthysGuy 9 months ago
@CoolBreeze250 Your citation of Romans 16:17,18 to support hatred is really rather sickening. I only hope you're not the victim of one of these farsical tribunals yourself when the elders find out you're conversing with a disassociated person online against the explicit instructions of the tyrannical Watchtower society. Fortunately for myself I already had found the truth before I officially left. Others have not been so fortunate and suffered accordingly.
IchthysGuy 9 months ago
Never stood a chance! So, in a nutshell, it's okay for anyone to LEAVE their religion, or question their religious doctrine...as long as its not Jehovah's Witness Doctrine? Double-Standard? "Let us show you why you should leave your religion and join us! Oh, once you join...don't ask us questions or debate with us, okay. And you can never leave peacefully with dignity." WINNING!!! They seem to be more powerful than the Government.
donstat11 10 months ago 2
I hate these fucking jackasses. ive lived with this pious, judgemental, stupidity my whole life. no fucking love here. just a fucking corporate witch hunt. if you've ever worked in a pyramid scheme or corporation with multi-level management you will recognize this whole fucking style of borg-minded, fucked up bull-shit. i hate these fucking people. Odds are the fucked up son of a bitch judging you is a fucking pedophile. They're going to be eating their words at the next "new light" convention.
BboyFranki3 11 months ago 2
Hey man, you sound like an arrogant cunt to me,why don't you fuck off and do crack or something.
steptoesaunt 11 months ago
On the one hand its THEIR club,organization,cult,closed group,closed control group,call it what you will. They can make the rules to govern their club and legally not have to give 2 shits on how it effects YOU or how you feel when THEY kick you out. I think this approach IS justified. Normally those being DFd are distraught.This person showed a logica hard to refute stance the elders found threatening as SINCERE only means sympathetic to the WTS a battle the elders surely would of lost
joel474 1 year ago
Hey man, if I might ask a favor, why not try putting subtitles into this vid so we can understand what's being said? My internet is fast enough to view a YT vid (Though only if I frequently pause and let it load a bit) but running a vid and another window is pretty much impossible. I think subtitles would help out a lot, and YT has some good resources for just that.
Klokinator 1 year ago
Anyway, that's why I dont go. I agree with a lot of the doctrines. I just dont agree how they treat the flock. I've got some incredible stories, but will keep them to myself, and let Jehovah take care of them when the right time comes. But, I will not waste my time campaigning against them.
I wish you all the best.
fadedjeans64 1 year ago
I'm not sure if I'll ever go back. Not sure if I could survive another JC, and be judged by people that already have their minds made up, instead of listening and truley attempting to help somebody. It's like it's not based on love and attempting to help. It's based on punishment,
fadedjeans64 1 year ago
I was already in a JC about 4 yrs ago. Survived the torture of going to the meetings , while people look at you as though you're a dog. Not fun. It doesnt end after being re-enstated, the treatment that is.
All in all , I dont hate Jehovah, am on the position to label anybody as such.
fadedjeans64 1 year ago
I don't know about Arizona law , but if you say it was legal, I believe you. I still do not think it was ethical to record the session, especially since they asked you before hand. The fact that it was not taped but digitally recorded is bogus. You know what they meant.
As far as him hating you as God does, I think he was out of line. Who are we to presume what God really thinks . There are things God hates , and he may hate what we do at times. Jehovah is a loving God, and wants everybody
fadedjeans64 1 year ago
@fadedjeans64 "While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it." - Aid to Bible Understanding (1971) p.1061
IchthysGuy 1 year ago
@fadedjeans64 "God's Word commands: 'Speak truth each of you with his neighbor.' (Eph. 4:25) This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive." - Watchtower 06/01/1960 p.351
So, long story short, we have a double standard here. The Watchtower can be "evasive" in order to engage in "theocratic warfare" but we Christians can't do the same?
IchthysGuy 1 year ago
@fadedjeans64 Finally, Mr. Jeans, the elder in question was simply reiterating what the Watchtower itself teaches about how JWs are to view and treat former members. Note the following quote...
"No matter how pleasant, how enticing, wicked things are to the fallen flesh, we must abhor them, even as the apostle commands. (Rom. 12:9) More than that, we want to hate those who willfully show themselves haters of Jehovah, haters of what is good." - Watchtower 06/15/1980 p.8
IchthysGuy 1 year ago
@fadedjeans64 So be careful. If you don't hate me, as you're supposed to, and say that's really not right, you might just find yourself in a JC meeting of your own. Since, as the elder in question also went on to say "We do not tolerate dissent."
IchthysGuy 1 year ago
I'm inactive and I believe the Elders are correct and that the gentleman did not want to listen , but simply debate . What he did was illegal, to record the session. Polititians and any body in a high position would lose there job or position for recording a meeting illegally. The elder was composed and defended the congregation and their faith. He did the right thing to end the meeting. It's obvious it was going nowhere since the accused had his mind made up already. The letter proved it.
fadedjeans64 1 year ago
@fadedjeans64 Sorry, but you're wrong. In the state of Arizona it is perfectly permissible to record any conversation, as long as at least one party to that conversation (i.e. me) is aware. What I did was perfectly legal.
That being said, did you think the elder was perfectly justified in saying he hates me and God hates me? Curious to see what you think about that...
IchthysGuy 1 year ago
@fadedjeans64 WHY are you INACTIVE? You seem to be in agreement with your "brothers" why don't you GO BACK TO YOUR MEETINGS??????
donstat11 10 months ago
Alll you had to say was that you did not believe the teaching on the 1444,00. It would seem to me that you knew very well what the teacings were and wanted a debate to establish your view. They were never going to debate or change their view on the 144,000 as I'm sure you knew. You knew their reasoning would be as the Watchtower describes and had already decided this was wrong so you were not going to be re adjusted even if they tried. The honest thing was to dissassociate.
bob195531 1 year ago
@bob195531 I did disassociate. But in the mean time I thought I'd give them the chance to "adjust [my] thinking" as they said they wanted to. Instead they took issue with my questions and refused to answer them. So, when they insisted they weren't going to talk to me any further, I handed them my letter of disassociation.
IchthysGuy 1 year ago
Every religion has an organisation it did in Jerusalem too so all the governing body is is a body of men providing governence. If you belive that body is not spirit anointed or believe in their teaching of the 144,000 and therfore the Jehovah's Witnesses church is wrong in its teachings then the simple thing to have done is to have left it. (continued part 3)
bob195531 1 year ago
I have listened to the 3 recordings. In christian times the bible does not clarify how a judicial meeting should be held but is clear the ministers of the congregationhave a duty to keep the congregation clean. The elders are the ministers of the congregation and as in any other church are part of the ones given responsibility to manage its affairs on behalf of the congregation. (continued in part 2)
bob195531 1 year ago
"Seperate yourself from him" or well seperate you from your family.
BakedSuperNick 1 year ago
My brother left that organization, I followed him. We´ve been out for 8 years. we do not feel like coming back.
sergevtmx 1 year ago
@sergevtmx That's great!
IchthysGuy 1 year ago
So sad
JwFoundJesus 1 year ago
man you went straight to the point as a JW's i can say those questions you asked cannot be answered in direct quotation from the bible. I agree with you in your stand however in the whole world there is no other religion that will try to have his followers live a clean life. I think you are right things are not the way we wish them to be. What we have to do is live with that my brother. God will show himself one day from now wait but don't regret what you know don't go through the open gate.
robsonidasouza 2 years ago
@robsonidasouza I don't regret what I know. I wouldn't trade what I know for the world. I've already gone through the open gate--the narrow one--the one that is opened by Jesus Himself. For the invitation is open to all who would heed the call.
We don't have to live with tyranny and oppression, for "we must obey God rather than men!" God already showed me the way, and that way is Jesus (John 14:6).
IchthysGuy 2 years ago
No wonder your judicial meeting was cut short, just listen to you. You were not sincere, you went there looking for an argument, and just like the elder saId you insult Jehovah's house. And to accuse the committee of being apostate mate when it is definitely you who is the APOSTATE. They knew what your motive's were and so do I you've exposed yourself as being an enemy of God, it's all over your vids. There's two sides to every story and it is clear where you are coming from dude.
MrOnamision1 2 years ago
@MrOnamision1 but why they couldnt answer the questions is not that difficult!!!!
aracelyamb 1 year ago
@aracelyamb if they had the answers of course
aracelyamb 1 year ago
@MrOnamision1 His motive was to question his religion. Everyone should have the right to question their religion. If their religion is God's religion than there should be no problem and they should be able to answer questions. If their religion teaches that any form of questioning is an act of Satan then you have blind faith in a mind controlling cult.
SixElacatloverr 6 months ago
If anybody wants to know my story feel free to message me. I have a lot to tell.
jaker2880 2 years ago
I was accused of apostasy and slandered throughout the congregation. I didnt know any apostates,didnt have a computer,and wasnt doing apostasy. But their actions drove me out. I was not disfellowshipped but I'm not going back.
jaker2880 2 years ago 2
I'm confused, So the Watchtower society disfellowshipped you, so now you will parrish and not have everlasting life. So does that mean that the Watchtower society is the true author of John 3:16?
spintch1 2 years ago
If you came to be readjusted then how come you already had a letter of disassociation? It kind of comes off as you did kind of have your mind made up about the organization.
jonmckane 2 years ago
@jonmckane You're right, I did have my mind made up... but my mind was and is still open (unlike the elders, apparently, who didn't really bother to actually address any critical questions).
I was more than sure I was going to have to disassociate myself that night, and in fact if they had let me read more than one sentence from the letter, you'd start to understand why.
IchthysGuy 2 years ago
The fact that I bothered to attend the meeting at all was a last gesture of invitation for them to actually engage me in serious debate and attempt to change my mind. Instead, they simply insisted I already had a "mindset" and so I couldn't possibly want it readjusted, which is a ludicrous line of reasoning. If I wasn't willing to have it readjusted, I wouldn't have bothered attending in the first place.
IchthysGuy 2 years ago
To each their own, I just don't see what you truly stand to gain by letting this anger you enough to make a scene about it. If I was in your shoes I'd just drop it and move on with my life
jonmckane 2 years ago
@jonmckane I'm a last-born. We make scenes just for fun ;-)
IchthysGuy 1 year ago
This is nothing more than the catholic inquisition without the physical tortue tools. All of the rest is there, the mental, emotional, and spiritual abuse & abandonment of those they deny the right to examine all things interpreted & re-written by man. John 15: 21 - But they will do all these things against you on account of My name, because they do not know Him Who sent Me. To anybody who has been through this traumatic abuse, my heart goes out to you. God bless & protect all of you !!
earthenly 2 years ago
Typical Elder grilling, when their high school education is challenged they panic, name call and run for the hills.
cosmo8525 2 years ago 6
Question the organization and they will dismiss you, just as Jesus dismissed all who questioned him!
spintch1 2 years ago
OH MY GOD!!!
THIS IS FUCKING WAR!!!
reasoningwitchpower 2 years ago
again-you didnt want to be helped-you only wanted to try to argue, you already had your mind made up-you went in with a bad attitude, and its not up to us to change what you dont want to change
truepridejb 2 years ago
If someone at the door asked you "So in regards to this Watchtower society, what should my thinking be today in regards to it?" -- Does that demonstrate a bad attitude?
Or how about you make some kind of asinine doctrinal assertion like "Jesus is actually Michael, the Archangel". If they reasonably ask "Is there a biblical basis for that?" -- Does that demonstrate a bad attitude?
IchthysGuy 2 years ago
How about this, if I ask you a question but I honestly don't care about your answer because my resolve in the answer I have formulated would make asking the question condescending and pretentious. Instead of playing the victim and using public forums to cry about it, maybe you should actually do the research and stop your childish public ranting.
jonmckane 2 years ago
The guy went in with question, okay they were in debate form, but questions none the less and very reasonable question at that. However, these questions were refused answers over and over and over again.
How is a person to see the error of their way if they are not shown the error?
If you can answer the question asked, please do see.
If you can't answer any of the questions then I maybe you should think of asking them (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
lchiddle 2 years ago
um, did anyone posting even LISTEN to the whole video? The guy who was here in the first place, didnt come to find answers-he came to debate, he came to try and discredit what we believe, he came to try and cause problems. Any elder or anyone in a congregation can see that this guy was doing nothing more than being a jackass-and such they did as they where supposed to do-cast him out
truepridejb 2 years ago
How about this...?
We present what we believe, and if you want to accept it-do so. If not deny it and be done. But it is not our job as Christian witnesses to "Adjust your thinking"
:P
IchthysGuy 2 years ago
OMG!!!!!!!
Shot4Truth 2 years ago
how has this only got 232 views
ChipZilla69 2 years ago
I'm surprised it has that many. I'm not really done with these videos yet, and thus I haven't bothered to advertise anywhere, lol
IchthysGuy 2 years ago
This shows they arnt looking for the truth, the elders had made their decision before they even heard his points.
krazzylad 2 years ago
Didn't Jesus often answer questions with questions? I wonder what these elders would do with Him if He was on earth today.
Great start to your You Tube channel! Are you on JWN yet? I would love to hear your whole story.
exjw44288 2 years ago
I can NOT believe some of the stuff these guys said to you here. Really it's insane. The decision was made before you even stepped in the door. Thanks for posting this, it... well... to be honest it makes me sad.
TimKilgore 2 years ago
I'm seriously thinking about going back so I can tear it down from the inside.
ChipZilla69 2 years ago
that sounds kinda satanic, chip
westoftheriver 2 years ago
Oh, that good ol' WT love.... how sweet it is NOT
PwrOfChristInMe 2 years ago