Before i became an agnostic concerning gods, i was a greek orthodox - and i still have lived the first 20 years of my life as one while living 3 on the 'other side'. I am not sad I left. even though orthodox are a bit more reserved and less of a pain in the ass than the other christian denominations, that doesn't make it perfect or the people better. the orthodox are merely subtler. orthodoxy has waged their campaigns in the past and are responsible for the first organized christianity.
and tries to emulate him (taken from robin williams calling episcopal 'catholic-like')
baptist: the forgettable middle child who doesn't really stand out amongst his brothers
mormons: the runt of the litter who comes up with the bizzare ideas and the extreme elements to make a name for himself
if i missed a few, tell me them and i'll find their role in the christian 'dudley family' (and i'll get a lot more people who can't take a joke to hate me)
i live in the ortodox christian society, Serbia. And people there have different arguments, and they are more open minded. I was ortodox christian but now im an atheist... becouse i can not accept something simply on faith. Charles shows how most of the ortodox christians behave. Its very interesting to talk to them or to the priests. But in the end all of them say i dont need an evidance , i have faith.
Sorry for bad grammar, english is not my native language.
...I mean in the East at least four Great Gods died and came back from the dead -Hermes, Mithras, Dionysus, Osiris so people were already accustomed pretty much to many of Christianities preachings! But for the Western and Northern tribes "Resuraction" was something completly new -especially for the common man- at their first contact with Christianity and they had just to bubble the weird and hard to understand Gospels quickly so they won't lose their heads from the Christian taliban overlord!
Orthodoxy are more annex and they have better arguments generally! This happens I think because of two facts: 1)Orthodoxy had never something like Vatican or Inquisition and there was never any Pouritan -with its strong sence- movement! 2) the philosophy of Christianity has many commons with the general philosophical tedencies of 1st century in the Eastern Mediteranian when it first created, so Eastern christianity could embrace them more easily as alien beliefes are embraced harder!...
Topics: WINNING ARGUMENTS FOR CREATIONISM-EVOLUTIONISM DEBATE (See Subchapter 10.2.2, Chapter 10, of Part Two.), The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
Websites: balancedway.yolasite.com
balancedway1.yolasite.com
See Announcements at announcements-balancedway.weebly.com
On a side note, they should have used the opportunity to convince Charles that Christianity is for the most part logically invalid. If this is guy is truly open minded as he says he is I think we may have seen the first on air deconversion.
@mellowmark1 If think that you're thinking just because you can hear your voice speaking in your head, think again! This guy is upset with the "so-called Christians", he is an Orthodox Christian... we prefer torture and death to denying our faith.
@realbojay I like muppets. The muppets are funny. As for demonising people and voices. What is demonising to you and are you suggesting that all relious folk hear voices?
I didn't say that, he compared -thinking- to "hearing voices in your head", but yes, some religious people think that when they are praying or "talking to god" that he is answering. If they are hearing voices they should get that checked.
Demonising is what i (rightfully) do with religions, not religious people, but what many religious people do with atheists, not atheism (which would be just as funny).
But you say it.. muppets are funny, even ridiculous, as it is to act like them.
@realbojay Well I'm one of those that prays to God and has heard Him speak sometimes, yet many doctors are believers too, even missionaries and mental heath physicians. So I suppose my "seeking help" would be a bit of of coin toss then, wouldn't it. :)
As for demons. Yea, I blieve they exist too.
As for muppets.
We are all muppets sometimes, or we are not really living. :)
I have nothing against your beliefs, as long as you don't force them onto others or punish/judge/isolate them for different beliefs.. also i find it cruel to drag your children into your dream world, fact is you have no proof for your god and pretty much anything about your religious teachings, so calling it knowledge is utterly dishonest, even to yourself, even more, religious indoctrination is brain washing, violates human rights...
@realbojay I'm going to have to disagree with that one. Every good parent has the duty to train their children the way they think they should go, knowing one day they will become adults and make their own choices. If a man really met God and told their child nothing about Him, that would be a bad parrent. Now I can play the dishonest card back on you, but that will get us nowhere at this time.
I will tell my child about 2 versions of god (and more) i am child in a mixed marriage (muslim and christian), my kid(s) will hear about them but unlipe religious brainwashing, my kid(s) will experience religion like the other fairy tales that they will hear, it is something we can't be sure of, somebody wrote it in a book, for my part i don't think it is true but don't believe what i do, see the facts and decide for yourself, specially important, read the book(s) before you believe.
@realbojay I see I am getting an awful lot of messages from you in a short period of time. Feel free to private message me please. I don't want to annoy our host with too much conversation taking up the string. This is not a brush off. Please write.
I wrote too much already, if you have any questions message me please, or if you have something to share, do so, I wrote an essay about religions and "faith" in general and linked it on my page in the "about me" section on my profile, i have much more to say but that was too much already.. if you really want to know, read it and if you still have anything to tell me to convince me about your religion or god in general, i beg of you to share it with me, so far nothing convinced me.
Kids are not free having a stamp put on their forehead as soon as they are born and having religious brotherhood taught instead of human broderhood.
Fact is, many religious people reject science if it contradicts with their belief.. even reject reality.. promote stupidity by sticking their nose into politics and education.
And i agree, we are all muppets now and then but behaving like muppets and living like muppets are 2 pairs of shoes.
@realbojay All I can really say is in the even recient past I used to speak on an authoratative level about my beliefs. Being I can't hand you a miracle and you cannot in a lab create for me life or a benificial mutation, neither of us has the right to speak on an authortative level. A little persoanal testamony from time to time and comparison of observances is not bad though. Tell me more about this brain of God thing. I'm a little curious, but not sold on checking it out yet.
Studies lead by a religious person on the processes in the brain from people who pray or try to remember "spiritual" experiences.
Problem is, or problems ARE, he is very biased towards religion so he is analyzing his data but always leaves room for God in there, no matter what the data says, but that is also good, he is persistent.
However it proves that the "authenticy" of "god experience" is same for all believers, just like for kids believing in Satna or in harry potter or whatever
The whole thing is called neurotheology and will show many more facts about "brain on god" in the future, however, one thing is already very clear, people with epileptical seizures and brain damage are more pron to "god experiences" because of their temporal lobe, there is the spot which "shows us god"
Now the guy is wondering if God "wired" our brains to be able to "perceive" him or our brain tricks us to believe and "feel god"
Important to know is, in case you are willing to believe it! ..many or most religious persons have troubles drawing a line between imagination and reality.. in fact they reject reality and would reject any science if it would disprove anything about their belief, 2006 a poll showed 64% of americans would reject science if it contradicts their belief.
Creative thinking goes off without "reality check" aka the logical side of the brain is left out of religious thinking, very dangerous.
There is no such thing as an open minded Christian, because any Christian who is open minded would also need to consider the possibility their god does not exist.
@mellowmark1 What you say is simply unfair. My faith requires me to be humble. By acting as if I knew, I'd eliminate my faith, since there is no need to believe in what is (allegedly) known. What I do know is that human knowledge is failable and incomplete, and this is an eternal truth.
A joke!This conversation is what it is,because Orthodox Chrisianty is actually dead.It provides a liberalism,philosophically dressed with pseudo-Christianity.He is just taking their side,to seem civilized.Most so called Orthodox christians I know,have NOTHING TO DO with Christianity.They have no passion forThe Truth of Christ,but don't take my word for it.I use to be Orthodox and found all its in Biblical lies&am not a Greek Orthodox anymore. Orth.Christianity is pseudo-Christianity. My opinion.
I love how the Orthodox (pre-reformation, pre catholic reforms in 1054) Christian comes to the show and has an intelligent, respectful discussion. Then you see how the so called "protestant" christians get moody and judgemental. Yay Orthodoxy!
Evidence & logic are common ground because all sane folks can agree on our common, sentient experiences, and then make basically common logical conclusions. Society is at once a group benefitting from cohesion and composed of individuals with varying viewpoints; so debate in the venue of common ground is needed for moral resolution.
I'm one of those truther atheists for example, and I love the show, I just consider that the evidence points to inside job, even ignoring the character/witness, comparing the data, science tells me that the government's apologetic claims make no sense.
@spikevalentine13 well said! Osama Bin Laden killed in Pakistan?.. Cheers, now show me a picture! If you question God, surely you should question government and media too. I take a big step away from the oppinions expressed on this show when it comes to that type of rhetoric. Especially given the wealth of evidence I've seen (over 10 YEARS OF RESEARCH).... Just had to capitilize that last point. =)
@MrLittletomdj You can Question Government & You may get an answer. However when You Question god You will not get an answer. We know the Government exists. We don't have evidence that a god exists.
I wonder what the caller would accept as "disproof" of god? Everything I can imagine as disproof has been found again and again throughout history. It sounds to me like the caller is the one who doesn't have an open mind, since having an "open mind" doesn't mean you accept things as true without evidence or justification. It means you will always consider things that CLAIM to be evidence and justification in order to find out if it actually IS evidence and justification.
@Rland0123 unfourtuantly this is a peace of circular logic.....if it becomes fact it will no longer be faith and your faith has to be enough prove therefor you dont let people have the chance at arguing anything about your religion to you.....a cleaver way to avoid having to prove your faith......and im sorry i dont buy it......prove it or im not believing its as simple as that
The caller) read my mind almost. I'm orthodox christian too, but that was my decision which I came to using my own mental processes. Nobody evangelized nor do I try to evangelize to anyone else. My broad moral outlook is likely to be the same as most atheists, I'm sure it's possible for atheists to live a life of integrity too and a lot of it comes down to a matter of taste, you may laugh at my clothes, but it's just my taste and I don't expect you to wear the same, nor have any right to.
9/11 conspiracy theory and the atheist experience...
Rich guys teaming up to get more control ? No no no, it's a conspiracy theory..
how long ago did you get free from religion ? Forgot whats like to believe silly things and fall in line like sheep?
Use the same reason that made you an atheist.
And investigate it as a scientific claim. Then say its a conspiracy theory. Atheists who believe its a conspiracy theory.. I view them as they view theists.
What I don't get is how reasonable guys like this one can still believe in a god without proof. To me that's even stranger than the crazy Christians. At least I can explain them, they're just idiots. But why does this guy still believe in this religious nonsense? Weird.
@dutchbb1979 do we Orthodox ask you atheists why don't you believe in God?Of course we don't,so please,no more bashing on us or our religion.We respect every other people and their beliefs,because man was born with free will.Not to mention that Orthodox Christians had never tried in their whole history to convince anyone,not even by inssisting speeches to leave their faith and embrace their own religion.
The caller made a serious mistake, perhaps he never learned who the Greeks were and the mistake is more serious if he is Greek.
When it comes to his faith he is not a Greek orthodox he is a Christian of the eastern Roman Empire who for 1100 years proudly called themselves “Romios”.
Greeks before Christianity had Philosophers to explain life; the roman emperors close down their schools and brought theologians to prepare them for death.
Greeks are the creators of the western civilization and the inventors of democracy, they made all of us famous and some of us proud.
Orthodox Christians are Δούλοι του θεού (gods' slaves) who brought the world the dark ages, therefore Greek orthodox Christian is at least an oxymoron.
@Evolvedprimate No offense, but your information is outdated, as Greek Orthodox is quite a common modern term. I'm guessing you don't know many Greek people, if any, or have any Greek churches where you live.
@Evolvedprimate Wait, are you Greek? Or Turkish? What a strange oversight to make if that is your heritage. I recommend you take your own advice and 'Know Thyself', which as I'm sure you know is ironically a religious inscription.
@TheKittykatSmack I'm a Greek too and I agree with Evolvedprimate. Recognizing that this fragment of our heritage( Orthodoxy and Christianity in general) has actually been proven to be detrimental for our nation and the world,that doesn't consist "treason". In fact most Greeks below the age of 45 consider ancient Greek civilization to be a far more important part of our heritage than Greek Orthodox Christianity.Christianity was ENFORCED upon the Greeks in the 4th and 5th centuries (cont.)
@chrisgr2008 Hi Chris, I am a Greek-Cypriot/English guy, baptised in the Orthodox church. (Atheist now). Your posts are very interesting. Why is it that Orthodoxy is so much more up-to-date with regards to our origins (ie Evolution/Big Bang etc) than other Christian branches? I would have thought 'orthodox' was a sign of stricter adherance to scripture. Is Russian Orthodoxy similarly more flexible? But I must ask, why do Greek priests have those huge beards? Is the caller typical of GrkOrthodox?
@adey5 Hello my brother! I don't believe it's Orthodoxy itself,but most probably the "philosopher" that resides inside the mind of each Greek.Plain and simple,we don't buy into bullshit that easily,we like to question and research deeper into our beliefs.As for Russian Orthodoxy,I'm not the right person to ask, you would probably have to ask a Russian.But as far as I know,the tenets of both Orthodox churches are the same.(cont.)
@adey5 Also I would agree that the caller is indeed an average Orthodox believer,moderate and incurious,although one can find (very few) fanatics even among them.As for the beards, a professor had once given an explanation to my class in high school: The Orthodox clergy adopted the garments and overall looks of the early Christian hermites and monks,who resided in seclusion in isolated places in Syria and the Sinah desert (2nd-5th century AD).Of course, I'm not an authority on the subject...
@chrisgr2008 Hey, thanks for the info. Interesting. Does this mean that next time I cant be arsed to shave, I can use the Syrian Christain Hermite Monks ancestry excuse! :-)
@TheKittykatSmack and replaced the light of Hellenism with an absolute theocracy (Byzantine Empire),where the word "Greek" had been demonized and was considered equal to "heathen".But I have to give it to Orthodoxy that it's much more moderate than Roman Catholicism and Baptism.It relies far more on tradition rather than the literal interpretation of the Bible.For example no Greek Orthodox pastor or priest will ever claim that the Earth is 6000 years old!!! (cont.)
@TheKittykatSmack Of course that doesn't make the overall belief in a God true. And by the way Γνώθι σαυτόν (Know thy self) is an aphorism attributed to Pythagoras (although there are other claimants too).It was inscribed at the forecourt of the temple of Apollo at Delphi,but it was a purely secular and philosophical quote,without any religious meaning whatsoever.In fact the ancient Greek "religion" was mostly cute little stories which few really believed,like Christianity today ;)
@TheKittykatSmack Or shmack? Calling me a Turk shows that you can't argue, typical brainwashed Romios who believes JC spoke Greek and will save your soul if you offer him your brain on a plater.
Study the oxymoron I mentioned bellow, if you Know who the Greeks were.
Greek orthodox church is what makes this guy cool. Its more about tradition and not bible thumbing, lunacy or hating anyone because they "sin". Its more of an institution than a religion. I am Greek and an atheist, my family is christian orthodox and they dont even bother to argue with me and I dont bother either. Its has its wrongs of course but as the guy said, it really stands away from protestants and catholics who take religion so seriously.
@panostsak Hey Panos! Fellow Greek(-Cypriot)/English atheist here.I had no problems in my family in being an atheist. In fact it was my dad (in a typical Greek way!) told me when I was young and first asking questions about religion, that the bible and religion were created by MEN,and bears all the flaws that entails. Since that day (I remember it so well) I was a skeptic, and had a nice easy stroll to eventual atheism. Perhaps it is the philosopher in us greeks that keeps us questioning?
@adey5 Heheh maybe! After all, Greeks spoke to the "gods" standing and not kneeling. Greek theists believe in the existence of the deity but they don't go around reading and repeating what a book tells them like little robots. My father is the same: He believes in god but he won't allow priests and all this hypocrisy to affect him in any way. And this is what made me a skeptic from a very young age; a father who believes in god, but then again tells you not to buy bullshit.
It's believers like this man that conflicts me most. True, he was much more open-minded and articulate with his questions and answers, but a part of me still doesn't think he deserves "respect". And here's why: despite the consequences of what he believes, i.e. stifling science for hundreds of years, genocides, oppressions, and in spite of all the evidence pointing to the contrary, he still believes. I think believers should be tolerated, but not respected. Thanks.
It's difficult to always tell what someone else is familiar with, lots of people aren't familiar with all the arguments against their religion, I didn't grow up religious but I'd imagine its terribly hard to shed beliefs that are as deeply ingrained as religion is. I think we should respect people like this but try to gently nudge what they believe, make them question it and let them slowly move at their own pace if they're going to move at all.
@sndnfry "despite the consequences of what he believes" I'm not sure this statement is valid, sure he believes in Christianity, and you could clearly deposit blame for the issues you've stated at the foot of Christians(among others), but from the sounds of it if Christians were historically more like this guy(being more open minded in their beliefs and more allowing of other beliefs), none of those things would have been an issue, or at least not to the extent they were.
@sndnfry I Kind of see what you are saying here.On this issue I agree with the caller ..but only to a point (ie existance of god). After that we will part company and that is where the disagreement will begin. However I may well respect individual believers as people, but I dont have to respect their ideas, which may deserve ridicule in some cases. I think you need to diferentiate between respect for the believer and respect for the belief. Obviously crazy fundies dont deserve auto respect.
I don't think he sounds like a future atheist. He's nice and he's reasonable, but he has no interest in sharing his beliefs or changing anyone's mind including his own. He has found common ground with a couple of atheists; but I don't see him becoming part of it anytime soon.
If all christians were like this guy, willing to ask questions and not freak out when they get an answer that doesn't jive with their religion, I would have no problem with religion.
It's the fact that most religious people I encounter are so far opposite from this that we have problems in the world
@Amarkcalledme I am a convert to Orthodoxy myself. the majority of so-called Christians seem to be Christians because of some "proof" that made them believe afterward, proof that only they can see or understand. I am not a Christian because it was proved to me that God exists beforehand or because the Bible told me to be. So it is completely rediculous to expect anyone, including an Atheist, to change their mind by a means contrary to what actually leads people to this faith.
@Amarkcalledme I am a convert to Orthodoxy myself. the majority of so-called Christians seem to be Christians because of some "proof" that made them believe afterward, proof that only they can see or understand. I am not a Christian because it was proved to me that God exists beforehand or because the Bible told me to be. So it is completely rediculous to expect anyone, including an Atheist, to change their mind by a means contrary to what actually leads people to this faith.
this christian might become an atheist soon lol- people who are too open minded eventually lapse from religion, happened to me and my friends...he is the typical person susceptible to de-conversion
@kakahass Thats not truth, as a greek i can tell you that a lot fo greeks they don't believe in god they don't even practice religion, but they are afraid to seperate from the religius since is very tight with our traditions.
@kakahass Why? Because he acts in a decent and calm manner? So, in that case, are we to presuppose that Theists, particularly Christians, are supposed to behave in an extreme, absolutist way? And if they DON'T then they must be on their way to atheism....that's a bit of a paradox, isn't it? Being a Christian doesn't mean being a religious nazi--unfortunately, too much fundamentalism and hammer smashing intolerance is the antithesis of what God Wants. You don't have to believe in anything....
This guy sounds like he's on the right track compared to most other callers. However, I don't understand how someone with his intelligence can believe without a shred of evidence.
@andrewh817 LOL! :D You're comment is funny. I want to compare it to something, but I'm either lacking the knowledge of what it is that I could compare it with, or I just can't think of it. That stinks. But I liek your comment anyway :) !
@robvlob However the lesson would be a waste of time since some fundies are so close minded even when it is explained they don't accept it, they ignorantly and arrogantly believe they know.
It would be like if someone asked why are you not so chipper today and you say I'm just tired but they insist your mad at them implying they know more about how you feel than you do.
Proof of God would invalidate both Theist and Atheist positions; Atheists would have no basis to deny God, Theists would have no basis for blind faith. The paradigm would be destroyed... but that wouldn't necessarily end the debate.
@JCLeSinge If there were evidence (proof) the roles would reverse .... people claiming that the theory of a god, as it would be scientifically called at that point, was wrong despite the evidence, would then be the irrational 'faith' based group and the other group would be the intelligent rationalists. The problem would be that the current religious groups would likely deny it because it wasn't their god (ie not Jesus, Yahweh, Allah, Vishnu, etc)
I must say, i am so relieved, glad and VERY impressed the open-mindedness of this caller and his honest opinion (which is true) of other christian denominations which are extremely hostile to anyone with different opinions and beliefs.
@x86freak If 90% of religious people had the same open mind and honesty as this caller had, all these so-called sacred conflicts would have ended LONG AGO.
once a year in Jerusalem during easter their is the holy fire ware god himself lights the candle in the holy tomb of christ it does not burn. you can find videos on this on you tube. oh and their is also a video of the jordan river reversing itself like it did when god was baptized. your hart knows its creator your just have to look in your hart and you will find the truth.
That was really goo..his is what I was saying!!! Ignorance, when asking why is there religion, is the first answer. Fear is the second.
CLEARLY the caller was not ignorant but still he believed in god. AS SOON as the co-host started talking about after life and the fear of death and using god as a blanket to soften that depressive blow, and how it's better to live in reality and know that this is all you have the caller said "WOW".
That moment reaffirmed my ignorance first fear second theory.
This caller is really a nice one and in my experience (living in Bonn Germany) more typical to the average Christian reaction to learning I'm an Atheist than the more funny callers in this show. Luckily. :)
I would agree that this caller is more in line with my experience with Christians in Canada. For the most part nobody cares what you believe up here, just if you are a good moral person. The crazy callers on this show really don't show up here very often. Mind you I do live in the same city as VenomfangX so I would be lying if I said we have no crazies up here. But it sounds like Shawn is getting help now so lets not pick on him.
Yes - as much as I hated the VenomfangX-Persona... If Shawn is serious with trying to get some help I wish him all the best! I know from my own experience that admitting the need for help with personal problems isn't an easy step at all.
I do enjoy this show, I think the martin may be wrong though in his opinion that atheists don't fill in the gaps of knowledge with beliefs. Belief in science is bad when you don't actually know the material enough your self to evaluate it. Its like christians who believe their preacher without knowing the bible or its history.
No it's nothing alike. You don't have to evaluate every single scientific theory yourself, because enough people (that have the proper education) have already done so. Before a theory is accepted, it has to go through repeated tests and peer reviews. If there is anything wrong with a theory, some scientist will speak up.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@maisteri You have to evaluate the research. Most lay people get scientific information from an intermediate or bias presenter. If you are not aware of what scientific research is able to conclude then you are likely to believe whatever these people bother to say AND very few people, even scientists, bother to check the research.
You don't have to know anything about the science. You just have to make sure your sources are valid. Most schools, respected science publications, universities, etc. are trustworthy sources of information. Trusting what they say is nothing like trusting a religious preacher and his unjustified faith.
@maisteri that makes you an idiot. how many people get their science news from an actual peer reviewed article? they don't they listen to the scientist who did the research who very often will say stuff that they would never put in their actual research because it would prevent it from being published. OR even worse they get the information from CNN or some other 3 party who is presenting the material for a specific purpose and often that purpose causes the material to be misrepresented.
If scientists found proof of God, what would be the point of faith? And would this "God" scientists might find evidence of bear any resemblance to the "God" as described in ANY of the holy books written by humans? If not, would not the "God" evidence they find simply be yet another case of pre-defining what you expect God to look like, and (surprise!) then discovering evidence that fits that preconception? I'm feeling Socratic, today.
Agreed. This guy was such a refreshing break from the usual theist callers! So much so, in fact, that I'm going to have to rethink my position of theists. I was convinced that an open-minded theist was a contradiction in terms. It seems I was wrong.
Thank you, Charles from Austin, for being enlightened enough to allow others to be enlightened.
@Greenillusionist I agree. He was very cordial and open to differing opinions. If only everyone were like this. I'd definitely have a drink with this guy.
Oh, and I'm sure Bill Maher represents all of atheists and the "movement" as a whole, right? It couldn't possibly be the case that his idiotic anti-vax attitude is entirely personal and not representative of anyone else in particular, especially not some supposed "atheist movement".
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Nigrescence,
Uhm, read my comment again. That is my point about cognitive dissonance. Bill Maher DOESN'T represent the atheist movement precisely because we have no dogma or shared beliefs, but rather are about a lack of beliefs.
But the caller asked about examples of cognitive dissonance among atheists and I gave an example.
Who pissed in your cornflakes so badly you can't read plain English. Or were you so prepared to fight theists, you knee-jerked at the first comment that looked critical?
I read your idiocy. Maybe you should pick your words more carefully, you half-brained twit.
You said it was in the "atheist movement". It's not. It's in one particular individual. That was my criticism of your comment. It's evident that you are utterly incapable of comprehending simple English.
Take your shit-headed ignorance and just shut the fuck up, moron.
"Notice that word 'in'. Bill Maher certain is IN the atheist movement."
Oh, so now that reality isn't on your side, you try to shift to a pathetic attempt at a semantic shift. Nice try, moron. Oh, and try to avoid errors when you attempt to bitch at someone else about English. You forgot a "ly" on the end of a certain word.
Not only are you incapable of reading, but you are utterly unaware of the meaning of "ad hominem", and jump to claims of trolling. No, you're just an idiot.
Oh, and just in case you weren't satisfied with all of that, let me point out that his anti-vax sentiment is not only entirely personal and not representative of atheism or any atheist "movement", but that it's not dependent on his atheistic views (and keep in mind that he prefers to label himself "agnostic"). He could very well abandon his anti-vax attitude and still be an atheist, or become religious and keep it.
The point is that it's not dissonant with atheism even if it was representative.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Uhm, yeah. Again, we aren't disagreeing here. I KNOW its his personal sentiment and not representative of any atheist "movement" - because any "movement" is decentralized and has no dogma or common beliefs.
His anti-vax stance is still cognitive dissonance. Not for some movement, but for him.
BTW, "you half-brained twit" and "No, you're just an idiot. " etc most certainly are ad hominem attacks. But it doesn't appear that logic is your strong suit. Stick to watching anime
You clearly still didn't even attempt to look up the definition. It's not an "ad hominem". It's an insult.
Nowhere did I ever approach even remotely suggesting that BECAUSE you're an idiot your statements are invalid.
No, I pointed out how your idiocy was wrong, and then I called you an idiot. Learn what something means before you try to use it, shit-for-brains. If anyone here is inept at logic, it's you, and I've shown that quite clearly.
Sorry about Nigrescence being such a dick to you, johnycannuk. You don't deserve to be down-thumbed into oblivion for making a good point and staying calm when confronted by a troll.
Don't waste your time trolling me, Nigrescence. I'm not interested. Just cut straight to down-thumbing my comments... you seem to be pretty good at that.
I don't understand how Nigrescence fails to understanding you, johny, but I get your viewpoint. You appear to be an atheist (like myself) who employs critical thinking even when it might seem to undermine his position. That's intellectually honest and admirable.
I have no idea why Nigrescence is so easily enraged, or how your comments are being voted down - could that many people be missing such a basic point, or does he have several accounts?
Thanks. I can kinda see how he may have perhaps misinterpreted my original comment, but to go on like that after I thought I clarified is a bit odd.
And the speed at which they were being voted down does suggest a sock-puppet account or two - my comment would be up for a few minutes, N. would respond and when I returned, -4.
"I'm not a troll, and of course you're not fucking interested because you know you're wrong." --GrifterGraham
Whoops Nigrescence... looks like, in your haste to troll me, you forgot to log out of your GrifterGraham account. You also managed to confirm suspicions that you're using multiple accounts to down-thumb and thereby censor anyone that disagrees with you.
Thanks for owning yourself and saving everybody else the trouble.
I only brought back that one other account of mine (the only other one) that I used to upload video responses after you three assholes have ganged up with voting, you fucking trolls.
So, I hardly confirmed any suspicions. Your suspicions were that I used others early in this bullshit, and I certainly did not.
But I guess reality won't keep you from trolling, you pathetic idiot.
Oh, and let's not forget the mass downvoting that you assholes are employing. Hypocrisy much?
No, I hardly "owned" myself, and even if that was the case (and it's not), my points all stand on their own merits regardless. Troll elsewhere, idiot.
Before i became an agnostic concerning gods, i was a greek orthodox - and i still have lived the first 20 years of my life as one while living 3 on the 'other side'. I am not sad I left. even though orthodox are a bit more reserved and less of a pain in the ass than the other christian denominations, that doesn't make it perfect or the people better. the orthodox are merely subtler. orthodoxy has waged their campaigns in the past and are responsible for the first organized christianity.
infernalone666 2 days ago
@infernalone666
if anything, there is a bit of a 'dudley family' to christianity:
orthodoxy: the traditional and rule-abiding eldest who fancies himself the leader
catholicism: the frat-boy enforcer second-child who compensates for not being the oldest by smacking his little brothers about
protestantism: the bullied middle-child who comes up with all the technicalities on why the frat-boy older brother is wrong to cover up
episcopal: the one that looks up to the frat-boy older brother
cont'd
infernalone666 2 days ago
@infernalone666
and tries to emulate him (taken from robin williams calling episcopal 'catholic-like')
baptist: the forgettable middle child who doesn't really stand out amongst his brothers
mormons: the runt of the litter who comes up with the bizzare ideas and the extreme elements to make a name for himself
if i missed a few, tell me them and i'll find their role in the christian 'dudley family' (and i'll get a lot more people who can't take a joke to hate me)
infernalone666 2 days ago
Dear Charles, you are what religious people think they are. Kudos. We should be friends.
forrestschaeffer 1 month ago
i live in the ortodox christian society, Serbia. And people there have different arguments, and they are more open minded. I was ortodox christian but now im an atheist... becouse i can not accept something simply on faith. Charles shows how most of the ortodox christians behave. Its very interesting to talk to them or to the priests. But in the end all of them say i dont need an evidance , i have faith.
Sorry for bad grammar, english is not my native language.
96lazar 2 months ago 2
I am an Orthodox Christian, and I really like that this conversation exists. I agree with you Charles! Great points.
GlumLotDrums 2 months ago
...I mean in the East at least four Great Gods died and came back from the dead -Hermes, Mithras, Dionysus, Osiris so people were already accustomed pretty much to many of Christianities preachings! But for the Western and Northern tribes "Resuraction" was something completly new -especially for the common man- at their first contact with Christianity and they had just to bubble the weird and hard to understand Gospels quickly so they won't lose their heads from the Christian taliban overlord!
Peristerygr 3 months ago
Orthodoxy are more annex and they have better arguments generally! This happens I think because of two facts: 1)Orthodoxy had never something like Vatican or Inquisition and there was never any Pouritan -with its strong sence- movement! 2) the philosophy of Christianity has many commons with the general philosophical tedencies of 1st century in the Eastern Mediteranian when it first created, so Eastern christianity could embrace them more easily as alien beliefes are embraced harder!...
Peristerygr 3 months ago
The world would be a much better place if all theists were like this caller.
ChipArgyle 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
NEW BOOK (Donated) For Debates And Governance
Topics: WINNING ARGUMENTS FOR CREATIONISM-EVOLUTIONISM DEBATE (See Subchapter 10.2.2, Chapter 10, of Part Two.), The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
Websites: balancedway.yolasite.com
balancedway1.yolasite.com
See Announcements at announcements-balancedway.weebly.com
announcements-balancedway.yolasite.com
TheServiceWeb 6 months ago
On a side note, they should have used the opportunity to convince Charles that Christianity is for the most part logically invalid. If this is guy is truly open minded as he says he is I think we may have seen the first on air deconversion.
mellowmark1 6 months ago
@mellowmark1 If think that you're thinking just because you can hear your voice speaking in your head, think again! This guy is upset with the "so-called Christians", he is an Orthodox Christian... we prefer torture and death to denying our faith.
zragisha 6 months ago
@zragisha
religious muppets also prefer imaginary worlds to reality.. instead of exorcising and demonising normal people you should be in mental houses
and we hear no voices in our heads.. you should get that checked
realbojay 6 months ago
@realbojay I like muppets. The muppets are funny. As for demonising people and voices. What is demonising to you and are you suggesting that all relious folk hear voices?
RedSun875 5 months ago
@RedSun875
I didn't say that, he compared -thinking- to "hearing voices in your head", but yes, some religious people think that when they are praying or "talking to god" that he is answering. If they are hearing voices they should get that checked.
Demonising is what i (rightfully) do with religions, not religious people, but what many religious people do with atheists, not atheism (which would be just as funny).
But you say it.. muppets are funny, even ridiculous, as it is to act like them.
realbojay 5 months ago
@realbojay Well I'm one of those that prays to God and has heard Him speak sometimes, yet many doctors are believers too, even missionaries and mental heath physicians. So I suppose my "seeking help" would be a bit of of coin toss then, wouldn't it. :)
As for demons. Yea, I blieve they exist too.
As for muppets.
We are all muppets sometimes, or we are not really living. :)
RedSun875 5 months ago
@RedSun875
I have nothing against your beliefs, as long as you don't force them onto others or punish/judge/isolate them for different beliefs.. also i find it cruel to drag your children into your dream world, fact is you have no proof for your god and pretty much anything about your religious teachings, so calling it knowledge is utterly dishonest, even to yourself, even more, religious indoctrination is brain washing, violates human rights...
realbojay 5 months ago
@realbojay I'm going to have to disagree with that one. Every good parent has the duty to train their children the way they think they should go, knowing one day they will become adults and make their own choices. If a man really met God and told their child nothing about Him, that would be a bad parrent. Now I can play the dishonest card back on you, but that will get us nowhere at this time.
RedSun875 5 months ago
@RedSun875
I will tell my child about 2 versions of god (and more) i am child in a mixed marriage (muslim and christian), my kid(s) will hear about them but unlipe religious brainwashing, my kid(s) will experience religion like the other fairy tales that they will hear, it is something we can't be sure of, somebody wrote it in a book, for my part i don't think it is true but don't believe what i do, see the facts and decide for yourself, specially important, read the book(s) before you believe.
realbojay 5 months ago
@realbojay I see I am getting an awful lot of messages from you in a short period of time. Feel free to private message me please. I don't want to annoy our host with too much conversation taking up the string. This is not a brush off. Please write.
RedSun875 5 months ago
@RedSun875
I wrote too much already, if you have any questions message me please, or if you have something to share, do so, I wrote an essay about religions and "faith" in general and linked it on my page in the "about me" section on my profile, i have much more to say but that was too much already.. if you really want to know, read it and if you still have anything to tell me to convince me about your religion or god in general, i beg of you to share it with me, so far nothing convinced me.
realbojay 5 months ago
@RedSun875
Kids are not free having a stamp put on their forehead as soon as they are born and having religious brotherhood taught instead of human broderhood.
Fact is, many religious people reject science if it contradicts with their belief.. even reject reality.. promote stupidity by sticking their nose into politics and education.
And i agree, we are all muppets now and then but behaving like muppets and living like muppets are 2 pairs of shoes.
Also check my profile about "the brain on god"
realbojay 5 months ago
@realbojay All I can really say is in the even recient past I used to speak on an authoratative level about my beliefs. Being I can't hand you a miracle and you cannot in a lab create for me life or a benificial mutation, neither of us has the right to speak on an authortative level. A little persoanal testamony from time to time and comparison of observances is not bad though. Tell me more about this brain of God thing. I'm a little curious, but not sold on checking it out yet.
RedSun875 5 months ago
@RedSun875
Studies lead by a religious person on the processes in the brain from people who pray or try to remember "spiritual" experiences.
Problem is, or problems ARE, he is very biased towards religion so he is analyzing his data but always leaves room for God in there, no matter what the data says, but that is also good, he is persistent.
However it proves that the "authenticy" of "god experience" is same for all believers, just like for kids believing in Satna or in harry potter or whatever
realbojay 5 months ago
@RedSun875
The whole thing is called neurotheology and will show many more facts about "brain on god" in the future, however, one thing is already very clear, people with epileptical seizures and brain damage are more pron to "god experiences" because of their temporal lobe, there is the spot which "shows us god"
Now the guy is wondering if God "wired" our brains to be able to "perceive" him or our brain tricks us to believe and "feel god"
just read my profile for a start, its not much.
realbojay 5 months ago
@RedSun875
Important to know is, in case you are willing to believe it! ..many or most religious persons have troubles drawing a line between imagination and reality.. in fact they reject reality and would reject any science if it would disprove anything about their belief, 2006 a poll showed 64% of americans would reject science if it contradicts their belief.
Creative thinking goes off without "reality check" aka the logical side of the brain is left out of religious thinking, very dangerous.
realbojay 5 months ago
There is no such thing as an open minded Christian, because any Christian who is open minded would also need to consider the possibility their god does not exist.
mellowmark1 6 months ago
@mellowmark1 What you say is simply unfair. My faith requires me to be humble. By acting as if I knew, I'd eliminate my faith, since there is no need to believe in what is (allegedly) known. What I do know is that human knowledge is failable and incomplete, and this is an eternal truth.
zragisha 6 months ago
A joke!This conversation is what it is,because Orthodox Chrisianty is actually dead.It provides a liberalism,philosophically dressed with pseudo-Christianity.He is just taking their side,to seem civilized.Most so called Orthodox christians I know,have NOTHING TO DO with Christianity.They have no passion forThe Truth of Christ,but don't take my word for it.I use to be Orthodox and found all its in Biblical lies&am not a Greek Orthodox anymore. Orth.Christianity is pseudo-Christianity. My opinion.
Yourjoking999 7 months ago
I love how the Orthodox (pre-reformation, pre catholic reforms in 1054) Christian comes to the show and has an intelligent, respectful discussion. Then you see how the so called "protestant" christians get moody and judgemental. Yay Orthodoxy!
AngelOfSephiroth 7 months ago
I'm not threatened with eternal damnation for disbelieving bin Laden is dead. That's the difference.
e51269 7 months ago
Evidence & logic are common ground because all sane folks can agree on our common, sentient experiences, and then make basically common logical conclusions. Society is at once a group benefitting from cohesion and composed of individuals with varying viewpoints; so debate in the venue of common ground is needed for moral resolution.
SIMKINETICS 8 months ago
I'm one of those truther atheists for example, and I love the show, I just consider that the evidence points to inside job, even ignoring the character/witness, comparing the data, science tells me that the government's apologetic claims make no sense.
spikevalentine13 8 months ago
@spikevalentine13 well said! Osama Bin Laden killed in Pakistan?.. Cheers, now show me a picture! If you question God, surely you should question government and media too. I take a big step away from the oppinions expressed on this show when it comes to that type of rhetoric. Especially given the wealth of evidence I've seen (over 10 YEARS OF RESEARCH).... Just had to capitilize that last point. =)
MrLittletomdj 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrLittletomdj You can Question Government & You may get an answer. However when You Question god You will not get an answer. We know the Government exists. We don't have evidence that a god exists.
tranquility4all 8 months ago
I wonder what the caller would accept as "disproof" of god? Everything I can imagine as disproof has been found again and again throughout history. It sounds to me like the caller is the one who doesn't have an open mind, since having an "open mind" doesn't mean you accept things as true without evidence or justification. It means you will always consider things that CLAIM to be evidence and justification in order to find out if it actually IS evidence and justification.
greyeyed123 9 months ago
in my opinion faith is what you beleive when there isnt fact to say so...... so if there was proof or fact for a god then it would no longer be faith
Rland0123 9 months ago
@Rland0123 unfourtuantly this is a peace of circular logic.....if it becomes fact it will no longer be faith and your faith has to be enough prove therefor you dont let people have the chance at arguing anything about your religion to you.....a cleaver way to avoid having to prove your faith......and im sorry i dont buy it......prove it or im not believing its as simple as that
Xlivesforever 6 months ago
The caller) read my mind almost. I'm orthodox christian too, but that was my decision which I came to using my own mental processes. Nobody evangelized nor do I try to evangelize to anyone else. My broad moral outlook is likely to be the same as most atheists, I'm sure it's possible for atheists to live a life of integrity too and a lot of it comes down to a matter of taste, you may laugh at my clothes, but it's just my taste and I don't expect you to wear the same, nor have any right to.
whyteay 9 months ago
Easily the best caller i've heard to date.
Horathgar42 9 months ago 18
9/11 conspiracy theory and the atheist experience...
Rich guys teaming up to get more control ? No no no, it's a conspiracy theory..
how long ago did you get free from religion ? Forgot whats like to believe silly things and fall in line like sheep?
Use the same reason that made you an atheist.
And investigate it as a scientific claim. Then say its a conspiracy theory. Atheists who believe its a conspiracy theory.. I view them as they view theists.
Blind to the obvious and sheep of society.
tilemacro 9 months ago
Unfortunately theists think they're open minded.
geniusjas87 10 months ago
It seems like Part 1 of this caller is listed as a response to Part 2.
FrostdPoptart 10 months ago
Blasphamy
ladytee3113 11 months ago
@ladytee3113 Illiteracy
HarrysSecret 11 months ago
What I don't get is how reasonable guys like this one can still believe in a god without proof. To me that's even stranger than the crazy Christians. At least I can explain them, they're just idiots. But why does this guy still believe in this religious nonsense? Weird.
dutchbb1979 11 months ago 8
@dutchbb1979
I think that there is no weird, do you know Orthodox Christianity?
If atheists are so "open mind", so open mind to really study the history and doctrines of it, or be intolerant as many fundamentalists...
Loiginer 3 months ago
@dutchbb1979 Can you say "brainwashed as a child"?
DaToNyOyO 1 month ago
@dutchbb1979 do we Orthodox ask you atheists why don't you believe in God?Of course we don't,so please,no more bashing on us or our religion.We respect every other people and their beliefs,because man was born with free will.Not to mention that Orthodox Christians had never tried in their whole history to convince anyone,not even by inssisting speeches to leave their faith and embrace their own religion.
Antimanele104 1 week ago
Doing the Orthodox proud! Way to go bro :D
khoshgelak07 11 months ago 3
People getting along. Imagine that.
halonone 1 year ago
I like Charles. That's the kind of Christian I was.
dowhatthouwilt911 1 year ago
CHARLES For Pope!
Talamasca124 1 year ago
@Talamasca124 ABOLUTELY!!!!!! Charles for the Grand Mufti!!
adey5 1 year ago
I wish there were more believer like him. Reasonable and trying to understand rather than assume what others think.
HimmiJoe 1 year ago
The caller made a serious mistake, perhaps he never learned who the Greeks were and the mistake is more serious if he is Greek.
When it comes to his faith he is not a Greek orthodox he is a Christian of the eastern Roman Empire who for 1100 years proudly called themselves “Romios”.
Greeks before Christianity had Philosophers to explain life; the roman emperors close down their schools and brought theologians to prepare them for death.
Γνώθησαυτον, (Know thy self)
Evolvedprimate 1 year ago
@Evolvedprimate maybe they called themselves Romios for 1100 years, but these days they go by Greek Orthodox ;)
bogdiworksV2 1 year ago
@bogdiworksV2
Greeks are the creators of the western civilization and the inventors of democracy, they made all of us famous and some of us proud.
Orthodox Christians are Δούλοι του θεού (gods' slaves) who brought the world the dark ages, therefore Greek orthodox Christian is at least an oxymoron.
As I said, Γνώθησαυτόν, Know thy self
Evolvedprimate 1 year ago
@Evolvedprimate No offense, but your information is outdated, as Greek Orthodox is quite a common modern term. I'm guessing you don't know many Greek people, if any, or have any Greek churches where you live.
TheKittykatSmack 1 year ago
@Evolvedprimate Wait, are you Greek? Or Turkish? What a strange oversight to make if that is your heritage. I recommend you take your own advice and 'Know Thyself', which as I'm sure you know is ironically a religious inscription.
TheKittykatSmack 1 year ago
@TheKittykatSmack I'm a Greek too and I agree with Evolvedprimate. Recognizing that this fragment of our heritage( Orthodoxy and Christianity in general) has actually been proven to be detrimental for our nation and the world,that doesn't consist "treason". In fact most Greeks below the age of 45 consider ancient Greek civilization to be a far more important part of our heritage than Greek Orthodox Christianity.Christianity was ENFORCED upon the Greeks in the 4th and 5th centuries (cont.)
chrisgr2008 1 year ago
@chrisgr2008 Hi Chris, I am a Greek-Cypriot/English guy, baptised in the Orthodox church. (Atheist now). Your posts are very interesting. Why is it that Orthodoxy is so much more up-to-date with regards to our origins (ie Evolution/Big Bang etc) than other Christian branches? I would have thought 'orthodox' was a sign of stricter adherance to scripture. Is Russian Orthodoxy similarly more flexible? But I must ask, why do Greek priests have those huge beards? Is the caller typical of GrkOrthodox?
adey5 1 year ago
@adey5 Hello my brother! I don't believe it's Orthodoxy itself,but most probably the "philosopher" that resides inside the mind of each Greek.Plain and simple,we don't buy into bullshit that easily,we like to question and research deeper into our beliefs.As for Russian Orthodoxy,I'm not the right person to ask, you would probably have to ask a Russian.But as far as I know,the tenets of both Orthodox churches are the same.(cont.)
chrisgr2008 1 year ago
@adey5 Also I would agree that the caller is indeed an average Orthodox believer,moderate and incurious,although one can find (very few) fanatics even among them.As for the beards, a professor had once given an explanation to my class in high school: The Orthodox clergy adopted the garments and overall looks of the early Christian hermites and monks,who resided in seclusion in isolated places in Syria and the Sinah desert (2nd-5th century AD).Of course, I'm not an authority on the subject...
chrisgr2008 1 year ago
@chrisgr2008 Hey, thanks for the info. Interesting. Does this mean that next time I cant be arsed to shave, I can use the Syrian Christain Hermite Monks ancestry excuse! :-)
adey5 9 months ago
@TheKittykatSmack and replaced the light of Hellenism with an absolute theocracy (Byzantine Empire),where the word "Greek" had been demonized and was considered equal to "heathen".But I have to give it to Orthodoxy that it's much more moderate than Roman Catholicism and Baptism.It relies far more on tradition rather than the literal interpretation of the Bible.For example no Greek Orthodox pastor or priest will ever claim that the Earth is 6000 years old!!! (cont.)
chrisgr2008 1 year ago
@TheKittykatSmack Of course that doesn't make the overall belief in a God true. And by the way Γνώθι σαυτόν (Know thy self) is an aphorism attributed to Pythagoras (although there are other claimants too).It was inscribed at the forecourt of the temple of Apollo at Delphi,but it was a purely secular and philosophical quote,without any religious meaning whatsoever.In fact the ancient Greek "religion" was mostly cute little stories which few really believed,like Christianity today ;)
chrisgr2008 1 year ago
@TheKittykatSmack Or shmack? Calling me a Turk shows that you can't argue, typical brainwashed Romios who believes JC spoke Greek and will save your soul if you offer him your brain on a plater.
Study the oxymoron I mentioned bellow, if you Know who the Greeks were.
Evolvedprimate 10 months ago
good caller, very respectful.
dredsdomain 1 year ago
Greek orthodox church is what makes this guy cool. Its more about tradition and not bible thumbing, lunacy or hating anyone because they "sin". Its more of an institution than a religion. I am Greek and an atheist, my family is christian orthodox and they dont even bother to argue with me and I dont bother either. Its has its wrongs of course but as the guy said, it really stands away from protestants and catholics who take religion so seriously.
panostsak 1 year ago
@panostsak Hey Panos! Fellow Greek(-Cypriot)/English atheist here.I had no problems in my family in being an atheist. In fact it was my dad (in a typical Greek way!) told me when I was young and first asking questions about religion, that the bible and religion were created by MEN,and bears all the flaws that entails. Since that day (I remember it so well) I was a skeptic, and had a nice easy stroll to eventual atheism. Perhaps it is the philosopher in us greeks that keeps us questioning?
adey5 1 year ago
@adey5 Heheh maybe! After all, Greeks spoke to the "gods" standing and not kneeling. Greek theists believe in the existence of the deity but they don't go around reading and repeating what a book tells them like little robots. My father is the same: He believes in god but he won't allow priests and all this hypocrisy to affect him in any way. And this is what made me a skeptic from a very young age; a father who believes in god, but then again tells you not to buy bullshit.
panostsak 1 year ago
Comment removed
chrisgr2008 1 year ago
Comment removed
chrisgr2008 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@panostsak Sorry,I replied to you by accident,instead of adey5!
chrisgr2008 1 year ago
Comment removed
chrisgr2008 1 year ago
It's believers like this man that conflicts me most. True, he was much more open-minded and articulate with his questions and answers, but a part of me still doesn't think he deserves "respect". And here's why: despite the consequences of what he believes, i.e. stifling science for hundreds of years, genocides, oppressions, and in spite of all the evidence pointing to the contrary, he still believes. I think believers should be tolerated, but not respected. Thanks.
sndnfry 1 year ago
@sndnfry
It's difficult to always tell what someone else is familiar with, lots of people aren't familiar with all the arguments against their religion, I didn't grow up religious but I'd imagine its terribly hard to shed beliefs that are as deeply ingrained as religion is. I think we should respect people like this but try to gently nudge what they believe, make them question it and let them slowly move at their own pace if they're going to move at all.
dummbatz48 1 year ago
@sndnfry "despite the consequences of what he believes" I'm not sure this statement is valid, sure he believes in Christianity, and you could clearly deposit blame for the issues you've stated at the foot of Christians(among others), but from the sounds of it if Christians were historically more like this guy(being more open minded in their beliefs and more allowing of other beliefs), none of those things would have been an issue, or at least not to the extent they were.
geoffpot 1 year ago
@sndnfry I Kind of see what you are saying here.On this issue I agree with the caller ..but only to a point (ie existance of god). After that we will part company and that is where the disagreement will begin. However I may well respect individual believers as people, but I dont have to respect their ideas, which may deserve ridicule in some cases. I think you need to diferentiate between respect for the believer and respect for the belief. Obviously crazy fundies dont deserve auto respect.
adey5 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
God will send you all the Hell !!!
darkilustrisimus 1 year ago
2:35 *starts to google "cognitive dissonance"*
Woodenlegjoe 1 year ago
Ubi dubium ibi libertas.
DrakeTimbershaft 1 year ago
Orthodox for ever
divineplusplus 1 year ago
caller receives 10 cookies! thank you for being one of the good guys that can act intelligent and co-exist with other humans responsibly :D
misnoto 1 year ago
This guy sounds like a future atheist to me
SkateLaneWilliams 1 year ago
@SkateLaneWilliams
I don't think he sounds like a future atheist. He's nice and he's reasonable, but he has no interest in sharing his beliefs or changing anyone's mind including his own. He has found common ground with a couple of atheists; but I don't see him becoming part of it anytime soon.
laflugantabastardo 1 year ago
If all christians were like this guy, willing to ask questions and not freak out when they get an answer that doesn't jive with their religion, I would have no problem with religion.
It's the fact that most religious people I encounter are so far opposite from this that we have problems in the world
TheLostGuitarist 1 year ago 4
@TheLostGuitarist I agree and I wish everyone could understand what you said
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
I think I speak for the vast majority of atheists in saying that If all Theists were like this guy, we'd have no issues.
Amarkcalledme 1 year ago 120
Comment removed
gopachinko 10 months ago
Comment removed
gopachinko 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Amarkcalledme I am a convert to Orthodoxy myself. the majority of so-called Christians seem to be Christians because of some "proof" that made them believe afterward, proof that only they can see or understand. I am not a Christian because it was proved to me that God exists beforehand or because the Bible told me to be. So it is completely rediculous to expect anyone, including an Atheist, to change their mind by a means contrary to what actually leads people to this faith.
gopachinko 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Amarkcalledme I am a convert to Orthodoxy myself. the majority of so-called Christians seem to be Christians because of some "proof" that made them believe afterward, proof that only they can see or understand. I am not a Christian because it was proved to me that God exists beforehand or because the Bible told me to be. So it is completely rediculous to expect anyone, including an Atheist, to change their mind by a means contrary to what actually leads people to this faith.
gopachinko 10 months ago
this christian might become an atheist soon lol- people who are too open minded eventually lapse from religion, happened to me and my friends...he is the typical person susceptible to de-conversion
kakahass 1 year ago 7
@kakahass Thats not truth, as a greek i can tell you that a lot fo greeks they don't believe in god they don't even practice religion, but they are afraid to seperate from the religius since is very tight with our traditions.
sotospap1 1 year ago
@kakahass
yeah, because religion thrives on closed-mindedness.
mcpencil 1 year ago
@kakahass Why? Because he acts in a decent and calm manner? So, in that case, are we to presuppose that Theists, particularly Christians, are supposed to behave in an extreme, absolutist way? And if they DON'T then they must be on their way to atheism....that's a bit of a paradox, isn't it? Being a Christian doesn't mean being a religious nazi--unfortunately, too much fundamentalism and hammer smashing intolerance is the antithesis of what God Wants. You don't have to believe in anything....
ponyboy1488 1 year ago
This guy sounds like he's on the right track compared to most other callers. However, I don't understand how someone with his intelligence can believe without a shred of evidence.
andrewh817 1 year ago
@andrewh817 LOL! :D You're comment is funny. I want to compare it to something, but I'm either lacking the knowledge of what it is that I could compare it with, or I just can't think of it. That stinks. But I liek your comment anyway :) !
pccrazy1000 1 year ago
Dude, he was the coolest. Now if only people like him would call more often...
Brekky57 1 year ago
@Brekky57 But then Jeff Dee wouldn't have anyone in which to rip a new one!
UnderlordZ 1 year ago
@UnderlordZ True that!
Brekky57 1 year ago
This guy's a closet atheist.
controllerbrain 1 year ago 2
@controllerbrain thats correct, most of greekds below 40 years old of age dont believe in god, they just want to keep the traditions
sotospap1 1 year ago
This is great.
TheDarkSagan 1 year ago
The caller was very polite and pleasant doesn't make an assertion of atheism and atheists, he asks.
Wow what a concept ask what someones position is and what it means instead of ignorantly and arrogantly assuming you know.
The fundies should take a lesson from this guy
robvlob 1 year ago 4
@robvlob However the lesson would be a waste of time since some fundies are so close minded even when it is explained they don't accept it, they ignorantly and arrogantly believe they know.
It would be like if someone asked why are you not so chipper today and you say I'm just tired but they insist your mad at them implying they know more about how you feel than you do.
robvlob 1 year ago
Proof of God would invalidate both Theist and Atheist positions; Atheists would have no basis to deny God, Theists would have no basis for blind faith. The paradigm would be destroyed... but that wouldn't necessarily end the debate.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
@JCLeSinge If there were evidence (proof) the roles would reverse .... people claiming that the theory of a god, as it would be scientifically called at that point, was wrong despite the evidence, would then be the irrational 'faith' based group and the other group would be the intelligent rationalists. The problem would be that the current religious groups would likely deny it because it wasn't their god (ie not Jesus, Yahweh, Allah, Vishnu, etc)
Redbeardian 1 year ago
every body has cogntive dissonance to a degree, even atheists. but if the evidence is undeniable any cognative dissonance would be overwhelmed
robertwc82 1 year ago
Enough with the "rah-ther". Jeez that's awful.
RichoRosai 1 year ago
I must say, i am so relieved, glad and VERY impressed the open-mindedness of this caller and his honest opinion (which is true) of other christian denominations which are extremely hostile to anyone with different opinions and beliefs.
Torchmark 1 year ago 3
That's the best caller I've ever heard!!! If only believing in God made every religious person be so reasonable and nice...
x86freak 1 year ago 7
@x86freak If 90% of religious people had the same open mind and honesty as this caller had, all these so-called sacred conflicts would have ended LONG AGO.
Torchmark 1 year ago 62
@Torchmark hell, if 51% of religious folks were like this guy I'd have much greater hope for humanity than I do now.
hardinmichael1981 1 year ago 2
@hardinmichael1981 Well said
Torchmark 1 year ago 2
This caller is a believer I respect!
Yesterday I have a Jew in the shop that made funny jokes, he is religious but big respect for him too .
obaeyens 1 year ago 7
once a year in Jerusalem during easter their is the holy fire ware god himself lights the candle in the holy tomb of christ it does not burn. you can find videos on this on you tube. oh and their is also a video of the jordan river reversing itself like it did when god was baptized. your hart knows its creator your just have to look in your hart and you will find the truth.
zafatsa1 1 year ago
That was really goo..his is what I was saying!!! Ignorance, when asking why is there religion, is the first answer. Fear is the second.
CLEARLY the caller was not ignorant but still he believed in god. AS SOON as the co-host started talking about after life and the fear of death and using god as a blanket to soften that depressive blow, and how it's better to live in reality and know that this is all you have the caller said "WOW".
That moment reaffirmed my ignorance first fear second theory.
upplsuckimcool16 2 years ago
@upplsuckimcool16 not a bad theory at all. Make sense with wath I saw of the world.
legueu 1 year ago
Not Atheist - Agnostic! I came from that camp! Now,Thanks to God, The Holy Trinity, I have The True Faith. Orthodoxy.
Yes, friend, we do have to make it all count. We do make a difference to those we interact with, whatever medium we choose to do it through.
God bless Charles, and the two men who spoke with him, and all who read this, each and all.
katherine3486 2 years ago
@katherine3486 How can having the TRUE faith can work with having an open mind? Why do you need God to make a difference in life of others?
legueu 1 year ago
great caller ..
ytben26 2 years ago 4
This caller is really a nice one and in my experience (living in Bonn Germany) more typical to the average Christian reaction to learning I'm an Atheist than the more funny callers in this show. Luckily. :)
commanderkruge 2 years ago 3
I would agree that this caller is more in line with my experience with Christians in Canada. For the most part nobody cares what you believe up here, just if you are a good moral person. The crazy callers on this show really don't show up here very often. Mind you I do live in the same city as VenomfangX so I would be lying if I said we have no crazies up here. But it sounds like Shawn is getting help now so lets not pick on him.
fireflygirl246 2 years ago 5
Yes - as much as I hated the VenomfangX-Persona... If Shawn is serious with trying to get some help I wish him all the best! I know from my own experience that admitting the need for help with personal problems isn't an easy step at all.
So again - Shawn, good on yer!
commanderkruge 2 years ago
I do enjoy this show, I think the martin may be wrong though in his opinion that atheists don't fill in the gaps of knowledge with beliefs. Belief in science is bad when you don't actually know the material enough your self to evaluate it. Its like christians who believe their preacher without knowing the bible or its history.
Uhlbelk 2 years ago
No it's nothing alike. You don't have to evaluate every single scientific theory yourself, because enough people (that have the proper education) have already done so. Before a theory is accepted, it has to go through repeated tests and peer reviews. If there is anything wrong with a theory, some scientist will speak up.
maisteri 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@maisteri You have to evaluate the research. Most lay people get scientific information from an intermediate or bias presenter. If you are not aware of what scientific research is able to conclude then you are likely to believe whatever these people bother to say AND very few people, even scientists, bother to check the research.
Uhlbelk 2 years ago
You don't have to know anything about the science. You just have to make sure your sources are valid. Most schools, respected science publications, universities, etc. are trustworthy sources of information. Trusting what they say is nothing like trusting a religious preacher and his unjustified faith.
maisteri 2 years ago 4
@maisteri that makes you an idiot. how many people get their science news from an actual peer reviewed article? they don't they listen to the scientist who did the research who very often will say stuff that they would never put in their actual research because it would prevent it from being published. OR even worse they get the information from CNN or some other 3 party who is presenting the material for a specific purpose and often that purpose causes the material to be misrepresented.
Uhlbelk 2 years ago
Did I say schools and universities as well?
maisteri 2 years ago
If scientists found proof of God, what would be the point of faith? And would this "God" scientists might find evidence of bear any resemblance to the "God" as described in ANY of the holy books written by humans? If not, would not the "God" evidence they find simply be yet another case of pre-defining what you expect God to look like, and (surprise!) then discovering evidence that fits that preconception? I'm feeling Socratic, today.
artgoat 2 years ago
This is the kind of believers I like to talk to... really awesome guy.
Greenillusionist 2 years ago 87
Agreed. This guy was such a refreshing break from the usual theist callers! So much so, in fact, that I'm going to have to rethink my position of theists. I was convinced that an open-minded theist was a contradiction in terms. It seems I was wrong.
Thank you, Charles from Austin, for being enlightened enough to allow others to be enlightened.
Skullpudding 2 years ago 3
@Greenillusionist I agree. He was very cordial and open to differing opinions. If only everyone were like this. I'd definitely have a drink with this guy.
sleipnir7 1 year ago
Cool caller.
typeNtardis 2 years ago 36
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Cognitive Dissonance in the Atheist movement:
Bill Maher.
Accepts science when it comes to belief in God, loves to ridicule Christians and Muslims hwo reject the obvious science.
Yet he is a vehement anti-vaxer who chooses to ignore science when it comes to drinking milk and giving vaccines.
Funny eh?
Don't even get me going on the NWO nutters...
johnycannuk 2 years ago
Oh, and I'm sure Bill Maher represents all of atheists and the "movement" as a whole, right? It couldn't possibly be the case that his idiotic anti-vax attitude is entirely personal and not representative of anyone else in particular, especially not some supposed "atheist movement".
You're a fucking idiot.
Nigrescence 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Nigrescence,
Uhm, read my comment again. That is my point about cognitive dissonance. Bill Maher DOESN'T represent the atheist movement precisely because we have no dogma or shared beliefs, but rather are about a lack of beliefs.
But the caller asked about examples of cognitive dissonance among atheists and I gave an example.
Who pissed in your cornflakes so badly you can't read plain English. Or were you so prepared to fight theists, you knee-jerked at the first comment that looked critical?
johnycannuk 2 years ago
I read your idiocy. Maybe you should pick your words more carefully, you half-brained twit.
You said it was in the "atheist movement". It's not. It's in one particular individual. That was my criticism of your comment. It's evident that you are utterly incapable of comprehending simple English.
Take your shit-headed ignorance and just shut the fuck up, moron.
Nigrescence 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I said:
"in the Atheist movement"
Notice that word 'in'. Bill Maher certain is IN the atheist movement. Perhaps English isn't your first language?
Is Maher's stance on vaccines not an example on of cognitive dissonance, given his (correct) use of science to promote atheism?
I am an atheist. A strong atheist. Is it you claim that there is no 'atheist movement', even a decentralized, self-organizing emergent one?
Or are you more interested in ad hominems and trolling?
johnycannuk 2 years ago
"Notice that word 'in'. Bill Maher certain is IN the atheist movement."
Oh, so now that reality isn't on your side, you try to shift to a pathetic attempt at a semantic shift. Nice try, moron. Oh, and try to avoid errors when you attempt to bitch at someone else about English. You forgot a "ly" on the end of a certain word.
Not only are you incapable of reading, but you are utterly unaware of the meaning of "ad hominem", and jump to claims of trolling. No, you're just an idiot.
Nigrescence 2 years ago
Oh, and just in case you weren't satisfied with all of that, let me point out that his anti-vax sentiment is not only entirely personal and not representative of atheism or any atheist "movement", but that it's not dependent on his atheistic views (and keep in mind that he prefers to label himself "agnostic"). He could very well abandon his anti-vax attitude and still be an atheist, or become religious and keep it.
The point is that it's not dissonant with atheism even if it was representative.
Nigrescence 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Uhm, yeah. Again, we aren't disagreeing here. I KNOW its his personal sentiment and not representative of any atheist "movement" - because any "movement" is decentralized and has no dogma or common beliefs.
His anti-vax stance is still cognitive dissonance. Not for some movement, but for him.
BTW, "you half-brained twit" and "No, you're just an idiot. " etc most certainly are ad hominem attacks. But it doesn't appear that logic is your strong suit. Stick to watching anime
johnycannuk 2 years ago
You clearly still didn't even attempt to look up the definition. It's not an "ad hominem". It's an insult.
Nowhere did I ever approach even remotely suggesting that BECAUSE you're an idiot your statements are invalid.
No, I pointed out how your idiocy was wrong, and then I called you an idiot. Learn what something means before you try to use it, shit-for-brains. If anyone here is inept at logic, it's you, and I've shown that quite clearly.
Nigrescence 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Ah yes, the ever potent "shit-for-brains" argument.
Nope, not ad hominem at all.
You keep on thinkin' Nigrescence. Its what your good at.
Happy anime fapping son.
johnycannuk 2 years ago
You're a moron and a troll. Go fucking kill yourself.
Nigrescence 2 years ago
Sorry about Nigrescence being such a dick to you, johnycannuk. You don't deserve to be down-thumbed into oblivion for making a good point and staying calm when confronted by a troll.
jussts 2 years ago
If anyone is the troll, it's "johnny".
I'm a dick to him because he's an idiot, and no his point is not in any way good.
Nigrescence 2 years ago
Don't waste your time trolling me, Nigrescence. I'm not interested. Just cut straight to down-thumbing my comments... you seem to be pretty good at that.
jussts 2 years ago
Comment removed
GrifterGraham 2 years ago
I don't understand how Nigrescence fails to understanding you, johny, but I get your viewpoint. You appear to be an atheist (like myself) who employs critical thinking even when it might seem to undermine his position. That's intellectually honest and admirable.
I have no idea why Nigrescence is so easily enraged, or how your comments are being voted down - could that many people be missing such a basic point, or does he have several accounts?
Skullpudding 2 years ago
jussts and skullpudding,
Thanks. I can kinda see how he may have perhaps misinterpreted my original comment, but to go on like that after I thought I clarified is a bit odd.
And the speed at which they were being voted down does suggest a sock-puppet account or two - my comment would be up for a few minutes, N. would respond and when I returned, -4.
Some people's children....
johnycannuk 2 years ago
You didn't clarify it at all, you moron. I've explained this quite well, and yet again the "several accounts" claim is utter bullshit.
Nigrescence 2 years ago
"I'm not a troll, and of course you're not fucking interested because you know you're wrong." --GrifterGraham
Whoops Nigrescence... looks like, in your haste to troll me, you forgot to log out of your GrifterGraham account. You also managed to confirm suspicions that you're using multiple accounts to down-thumb and thereby censor anyone that disagrees with you.
Thanks for owning yourself and saving everybody else the trouble.
jussts 2 years ago
I only brought back that one other account of mine (the only other one) that I used to upload video responses after you three assholes have ganged up with voting, you fucking trolls.
So, I hardly confirmed any suspicions. Your suspicions were that I used others early in this bullshit, and I certainly did not.
But I guess reality won't keep you from trolling, you pathetic idiot.
Nigrescence 2 years ago
"Your suspicions were that I used others early in this bullshit, and I certainly did not."
Not buying it, Nigrescence... not even for a second.
"...my points all stand on their own merits regardless."
Find one person (that isn't one of your sock accounts) that thinks your insult riddled posts have any merit. I dare you.
jussts 2 years ago
You don't buy reality because you're a fucking failure of a troll.
That's not much of a dare, because my posts have plenty merit. Only pathetic trolls like you that are unable to read disagree with that fact.
Troll elsewhere, shitbag.
Nigrescence 2 years ago
"That's not much of a dare, because my posts have plenty merit."
Oh good, then it shouldn't be hard for you to find someone who is willing to attest to that.
Goodnight GrifterGraham/Nigrescence. And hey, if I don't get back to you til then, merry Christmas.
jussts 2 years ago
Oh, and let's not forget the mass downvoting that you assholes are employing. Hypocrisy much?
No, I hardly "owned" myself, and even if that was the case (and it's not), my points all stand on their own merits regardless. Troll elsewhere, idiot.
Nigrescence 2 years ago