Mahler: Symphony No. 3: Part II: Mov. 6 - Part 1 of 3

[rallestar1]

I've always had a special aversion towards people who say stuff like "enjoy the music, don't overanalyze it" and in other ways hold the opinion that knowing about music theory doesn't enhance ones experience of music - or that it may even hinder it!

Have these people never experienced the need to know beauty, to stand confronted with it and understand its innermost functioning, to know and appreciate fully the depth of these compositions by great masters, the compositions that ...

[rallestar1]

... cost them so much so that the least mad spent all of their lives perfecting their works, while the more mad were ended by their art. And you say "don't overanalyze" as if this was a pretty drawing by a five year old! This is music by phenomenal geniuses and extraordinarily learned men - we cannot overanalyze, we can only hope to gain a tiny bit of insight into the wonders they have gifted eternity.

[hostajohn1]

This is beautiful.

It is only let down by the few comments on here from the usual "know everything" brigade.

If this was my site I'd say: "Thanks, then block them.

[captainkegelt]

Just enjoy the music; don't over analyze it.

[ramrambatti]

This is something Mahler himself would not approve of. And this is NOT Mahler in my opinion. This is something created out from over self-indulgence. Mahler liked Mengelberg. Shame, many believes he is a protege from Mahler roots.

[jcarty123]

When I hear this music, I feel complete, like I don't need any other music.

[jamesaellis]

T_T

[kentcollier]

Liberace's theme song. "I'll be seeing you in old familiar places" done ad nauseum.

Self indulgent schlock. Perfect for Lenny.

[jgesselberty]

@kentcollier Yes. Some of the most finely crafted self-indulgent schlock in the history of music. You have to listen intently to hear the miraculous.

[offyougonow1007]

Dear Tokkemon...

Your depth of sensitivity astonishes me and is so tenderly touching.

Thank you for all of your Mahler postings! They're a gift to all of us.

Bless you! Cate

[hermanzoon]

Has it ever occurred to anyone else that the motive for this movement was taken directly from Beethoven's String Quartet No. 16, Third Movement?  Just listen to the opening of the Beethoven. Mahler's is an exact quote.

[Tokkemon]

@hermanzoon Just the first few notes, which was probably intentional. Both composers take the same notes in different directions. That's the beauty of music. 

[badladbxl]

@hermanzoon

Yes, indeed Beethoven's op.135, but doesn't Mahler the do something fabulous with the mofif?

[oceanse11]

@hermanzoon

It can also be heard in Beethoven's 3rd symphony in the slow movement. Exact same passage. Before I came to that realization I loved Mahler more. Now the credit goes to Beethoven. Certainly Mahler "stole" it. No biggie, but the credit goes to Beethoven for its beauty.

[oceanse11]

@oceanse11 The symphony was composed before the quartet

[Zomgurface]

@hermanzoon

Right, except for the fact that Beethoven keeps going in his usual way, whereas Mahler's stuff is actually interesting.

[AbyssMage]

As beautiful as this movement is, I really don't see any reason for people to bring the existence of God into this. It's very nice music, yes, but if listening to it makes you believe in a supreme deity any more or less than you did before, then I think you're grasping at straws, and in the wrong places.

[hermanzoon]

@AbyssMage I agree. As magnificent as this music is, such a thing cannot be proof of anything except people find it beautiful and uplifting. When we label anything as being proof of God we actually are defining that which cannot be defined and, metaphorically, painting a picture of a flower and saying "that is a flower!" when it is not a flower at all.

[unnameableuser]

@hermanzoon it is not a proof, but an absolute fact that people have this innate dimension for the beautiful and the uplifting, that they can conceive it and appreciate it, they can create an image of it - whether in music or words or color - and be touched by. and that fact simply disrupts the evolutionary frame. for such creations speak out a sehnsucht about something of a über order, something distinct of man and co-originating with him...

[unnameableuser]

...and not just an evolutionary impulse toward the next level. a longing such as the ape did not nurture nor nature when it allegedly was about to ascent to man.

As to the picture of a flower, it is the picture of a flower, isn't it? and it says something about the flower, doesn't it. and thus the picture fulfilled its purpose, testifying about the flower and about the one who drew it and also about those who enjoy it. Respond to this video...

[Tokkemon]

@AbyssMage But indeed music has divine power. Allow yourself to feel it and you'll see why people say that sort of stuff.

[sorim1967]

@Tokkemon what is the corrolation to the divine of Heindrich who adored Schubert and was apparently an accomplished musician?

[loganswell]

@AbyssMage I used to be a firm believer a while ago and this piece really fitted in with that belief in a big way. I am now an atheist but still enjoy it every bit as much!

[iamalittlespy]

This is great music without a question. But people, lets not get carried away here :-), Mahler did not cease composing after this and had a lot more things to say in his future compositions. Symphonies 5, 8, 9 are no less glorious. His later more polyphonic and almost atonal music is no less interesting, just as are his later song cycles.

[amadeuswebern]

I think that this is the most beautiful and sublime music ever written. I cannot think of anything else that can match the beauty of this Symphony. I just wish Mahler had lived longer and written more music like this.

[hermanzoon]

@amadeuswebern Ah; but he did! He wrote seven more major works plus many songs. But, I will agree with Bernstein (listen to his discussion of Mahler's 9th) when he says that Mahler did not improve on the 9th with the 10th. Mahler pretty well says it all in the 9th and tries to repeat himself in the 10th and, while there is some beautiful music, it surpasses nothing he wrote previously.

[MsZhizii]

Unbelievable! He conducts this by heart! Bernstein was also a genius!

[Earzful]

RenwickSchofield said:

"This is the piece of music which convinced me that God exists. Do I need to say anything more?"

I think you've said way too much. Interesting that people attribute such divine qualities to the music of Mahler and (by similar comment) Bruckner -- 'God's Own Music', one post said.

My hopes would be that God, if She exists, would be far less pedantic that this late romantic stuff. As much as I love this music, it is just music.

[secuenciador13]

@Earzful then you have not understand this symphony, in the previous moviment the men said "God does not exist" (in the text) and this moviment is tituled "what the love said me" it feels a gradual crescendo to a final explosion of love, for many people the love is God, the triumph of love is the triumph of God.

You should read the translation of the texts of mahler symphonies and read his notes and letters about his music.

[animumaurarium]

@Earzful

Poor you.

Such composers are the bridge between existence itself and music. What else would you call it instead of natural divinity? They let music be written. And conductors such as Bernstein let it sound, burst out over everything. Yes, music is just music. That's what that makes it so divine. Heh, got to calm myself :)

[noxiousanxious]

T.T tan rmosa

io la scuche en un concierto de la orquesta sinfonica de mineria

[spinoza1111]

This music inspired me today to draw a picture and write a sonnet about the Unknown Helper. I can't seem to post the link: just search on Google for "spinoza1111 unknown helper". I hope the unknown helper helps you. Or read these lines, The Return, by Edna St Vincent Millay in the next post down.

[spinoza1111]

Earth does not understand her child, Who from the loud gregarious town

Returns, depleted and defiled, To the still woods, to fling him down.

...

Who, marked for failure, dulled by grief, Has traded in his wife and friend

For this warm ledge, this alder leaf: Comfort that does not comprehend.

[slipperyelmful]

thanks for posting all of these Bernstein Mahler 3 movements. This is not only beautiful music interpretation, but also extremely fine filming. What a find for me here. Thank you.

[RenwickSchofield]

This is the piece of music which convinced me that God exists. Do I need to say anything more? It is simply a picture of the End - not painted in Hell, but in the most glorious light of peace, love, joy, and THE TRUTH! Thank God for Mahler, and may be rest in peace with the angels forever and ever, finally. May we find the place that he saw!

Amen.

[spinoza1111]

@RenwickSchofield No, sorry, that isn't the meaning of the music. The very fact that the brass plays out of tune means that Resurrection ain't comin'. It means that in the face of its opposite we stay kind and decent to each other, in rebellion against God until God himself/herself/itself gets tired of doin' us dirt.

The ordinary listener floats as if on the Raft of the Medusa between leimotifs in Mahler finding as in a half-made dream pleasure in tidbits without realising that he's doomed.

[loganswell]

@RenwickSchofield You echo my sentiments fully and completely. This is quite probably the most amazing, most exquisite, most beautiful piece of music EVER written. Thank you Mahler... I hope I get to meet with you in heaven to thank you personally!

[loganswell]

@RenwickSchofield Amen to that, my friend!

[ProgThrasher6666]

@RenwickSchofield While I agree that Mahler's music is some of the most powerful and emotional music ever created, I don't see how a movement about what love tells someone is relevant at all to ones spiritual views.

[retahfufo]

It stops at 1:22 and doesn't go any further.

[jonifoni]

What love tells me

[braddyboy82]

Absolutely beautiful. My favorite classical piece of all time.