Revelation question for Jehovahs Witnesses

[jamesandchante]

I read that in the Revelation book before too, but I thought they meant the resurected 144,000 may speak to humans in the future (such as during the 1,000 year reign). I did not realize it, until you posted this video that I actually misunderstood what they were saying. I looked at my book, and you are definitely correct! That is a scary idea they are spreading about where they get information from. It is scary and disgusting. Basically, I was involved in spiritism without knowing it!

[jamesandchante]

I now know that the New World translation is not going to be correct, because spirit mediums helped translate it. Yet, how do I know which translation is trustworthy, considering they also vary from one another.

[jamesandchante]

I have three different Bible translations that have drasticly different interpretations of Revelation. In one Jesus is called "Almighty, " "The Alpha and the Omega," "The Fist and the Last," as well as other things that make him undoubtedly God the Son. Another translation calls him "The First and the Last," which implies he is God the Son. Then the other translation leaves all such titles out, they are completely ommitted! This makes Jesus seem to be Michael the Archangel.

[Exheast]

You know, many people are asking JW's questinos about any subject, cus they want an answer. You could ask yourself, why do people only question JW's? It's this: Because the Churches pretend like they have an answer to anything and everything to sooth peoples mind. So in other words, people keep asking questions because they want to know ( they are curious), BUT JW's don't know everything, it's not our right to know everything. Only Jehovah knows EVERYTHING, not his servants.

[21crosscheck21]

@Exheast It's a myth that people only question jw's... if you look on just youtube alone Mormons, Catholics, Evangelicals and just about every other religion is questioned. As a matter of fact, jws probably land at the bottom of the questioning list as opposed to at the top.

Also the rest of your comment is interesting coming from a jw... has not Jehovah given the Faithful slave the answers it needs? Are you saying that God's will and ways are a mystery to you?

[Exheast]

@21crosscheck21 Yes they have gained the answers they need, so not every answer to every question. Only Jehovah God knows everything. Even Jesus Christ said that he didn't know the exact date of the Great Day of God Almighty. The second to smartest spirit in the universe doesn't know that date, only Jehovah. So how can individual witnesses and the faithful slave know everything? Your comment just makes it all less understandable.

[21crosscheck21]

@Exheast My friend the evidence that these men are not led by God is all the mistakes and false prophecies they have made and their constantly changing doctrines. They are blind guides and they will fall in the pit..... don't let them take you with them.

[Exheast]

@21crosscheck21 Then how do you explain that C.T. Russel said about 1914 (40 years earlier, around 1876) that a time of Great Anarchy would take place? And exactly in 1914 WW1 started. C.T. Russel is the founder of JW's, no he's not inspired by Jehovah God, but he was led. Matthew 24:7 and 2 Timothy 3:1-5 both indicate that the Last Days have begun in 1914. It's only a matter of time before Jehovah will start The Great Tribulation followed by Armageddon.

[Exheast]

@21crosscheck21 The most known doctrines of JW's are not changed at all, just some small details. Yes we have stated to know in what year the End would come, but as Jesus himself said that, "nor the Angels of heaven nor the Son than the Father alone", knows the time of the End. We know a lot of things stated by the Bible, which has been written almost 3500 years ago, but we only see light (new facts or discoveries) when Jehovah God reveals light.

[winstong2000]

Jehovah is giving us our information through the anointed ones.DUH?

[donstat11]

@winstong2000 do more research. "SOMETHING" is giving you your info thru the GOVERNING BODY, who has said in the recent past that THEY are the ones giving you your meat in due season, not the "annointed ones" as a class, although at the same time you all believe that the "Faithful and Discreet Slave Class" is the annointed....when those ones outside of the GB are NOT feeding the sheep at all. Only the GB with the help of "great crowd" members do so.

[spadaforaster]

FIRMLY I KNOW THE WATCHTOWER IS SATANIC TRUE FAITH UNITES NOT DIVIDES AND DISFELLOWSHIPING IS A DIVISIVE NOT INCLUESIVE PRACTICE ONLY IN SATANS WORLD IS THERE A DIVISIVE WAY OF DOING THINGS

[01keliree]

WOOO-HOOOO!!!GO!GO!GO!:)

[anzwertree]

That's the book that made me leave. It was what first started my doubt. Look at what it says about 1918, Rutherford and the fulfillment of their prophecy of "being trampled on by the nations." Their subsequent release from captivity, the fall of Babylon the great, and the societies appointing over all the master's belongings. And all that because Rutherford, and a few Bible students, spent less time in jail than most convicts.

[areckisch]

who is interested in it?

[acoolwitness]

21crosscheck I prefer that you answer me on this forum not privately. I realize that you do not see the U.N. as a threat and that you don't believe they are The Beast of revelation, however the prophesies concerning a final kingdom fit precisely with the U.N. but by the time they are ruling the planet it would be too late to find out. Think about it the bible also says "When they are saying peace and security destruction is immediately following" Do some research on the U.N. Origins and founders

[21crosscheck21]

Hi ACW..... I had commented back to you earlier but the comment wouldn't post..

Question for you: you said ".....The Beast of revelation, however the prophesies concerning a final kingdom fit precisely with the U.N. but by the time they are ruling the planet it would be too late to find out."

What do you mean by "to late." Does salvation depend upon knowing who the beast is in advance?

[acoolwitness]

You have a way of missing the point. By the time they begin to rule the Great Tribulation is very soon after then Armageddon so its too late too navigate through the doctrinal blindsiding that has been going on for hundreds of years. Those who actually want the truth need only pray for it with a sincere heart. One prayer is all it takes. You get the answer faster than you would EVER believe. expect a miricle because Jehovah provides them when its in agreement with his will.

[21crosscheck21]

Not really sure how I missed the point. I am just wondering why it is so vital to know who the beast is in advance.

So salvation does depend on knowing who the beast is in advance? I ask again for clarity.

And what if the WT is wrong and the UN is not the beast? Will you be destroyed?

[jwsjuls]

@21crosscheck21 you make me chuckle. You ask why it is so important? You should ask John the Baptist why it was so important for him to preach the last days. You seem to think this is not importent? Why do you say it's not important? I know that christans seem to think all this is important whenthey use it for an excuse to neglect the planet. Famous say "why bother, the end is near". You and all organized religion are such a joke. Mind control. Keep the vid's coming. Obsession is great.

[21crosscheck21]

@jwsjuls When have I ever promoted an organization?

[acoolwitness]

Many put their faith (unknowingly) in the beast, the bibles warning has far reaching implications. Mankinds governments can Never solve world problems so why do supposed christians vote and join the army?

[ExLuedenscheider]

It very definitely is something to think very seriously about.

[acoolwitness]

Are you aware that All Member Nations have signed over their authority to The United Nations to Govern The World in the event of a Global Pandemic?

[acoolwitness]

Did you also notice who we refer to as The Beast of Revelation? Do you agree with that?

[21crosscheck21]

Hi a cool witness.... I do not think that it is likely that the UN is the beast.... It is interesting that the Jws in recent years were a member organization of the UN. but to this date the UN has shown themselves to belittle more than a useless debating society incapable of being the beast.... will things change? I guess we will have to keep on the watch.

[acoolwitness]

this is clear. Love for one another. If a husband and wife have love for one another and are never together how would others know it?

[21crosscheck21]

Oh.... I see..... I am not sure that verse is referring to world wide gathering that people would witness and see love. I think that he was talking to individuals, saying that we as individuals should love each other.....

And this is in no way limited to loving our spiritual brothers and friends.... Cont...

[21crosscheck21]

From Luke 6:

32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that.

I think people see our love not only among us but in our orphanages, food pantries, homeless shelters, disaster relief, free medical clinics, and missionary work.... these are just a few ways that the world sees our love.

[acoolwitness]

I agree that love involves assisting those in need. I just know that in a congregation imperfect people need to constantly be aware of individual personalities and to always put love and forgiveness ahead of contentions.

[acoolwitness]

The Bible says that an identifying mark of true worship is that "you have love among yourselves" How would someone trying to find The Truth see this identifying mark if not by physically seeing it. I don't know any other definition for the word among.......... do you?

[21crosscheck21]

I am not sure what you are getting at here asking for the definition of "among." Perhaps you could clarify for me.

However let me first point out that the word "among" is not actually in the Greek text. It was added by the NWT translators.... so God never actually said ":among" so there is little point in discussing it. Check your Kingdom Interlinear Translation to verify.... page 480

[acoolwitness]

13:35 [ Greek Font Size: / + | Toggle Font ] [ View in: BYZ / TR | Side-by-side | Greek Lexical Parser ] "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." en toutw gnwsontai (5695) pantev oti emoi maqhtai este, (5748) ean agaphn exhte (5725) en allhloiv.

[21crosscheck21]

The Greek preposition there is "ev" or "in" and it implies an intimate love among the brothers which is further reinforce by the word "agape" which indicates a self sacrificing love.

[21crosscheck21]

I still don't exactly understand what your getting at.... Could you rephrase the original point or question. Thanks

[acoolwitness]

Let me ask you a question 21C21. Jesus said "you will be hated on account of my name" Was this intended only for first century Christians or for Christians of all time periods from the Stating of that remark until the end?

[21crosscheck21]

Christians believe not only will it remain until the end but it will intensify as the end draws near.

Tens of thousands of my Christian brothers and sisters are beaten, imprisoned and even killed every year for taking and proclaiming the name of Jesus.

[acoolwitness]

Tens of Thousands from what church?

[21crosscheck21]

From the body of Christ...... The "church" is simply the world wide body of believers. It is not defined by which men you follow like the Catholics, Mormons Jws etc believe.

You are a Christian because you have been washed clean by the blood of Christ, not because you aligned with men from Utah, Brooklyn or Rome.

[acoolwitness]

So then how do you know that the Christians you are speaking of around the world being persecuted are in fact your brothers and sisters in Jesus. What commonality do you share.

[21crosscheck21]

"""What commonality do you share."""" We believe that we are save by grace through faith alone in the sacrifice of Jesus. (not by works or membership in an organization) We have all repented of our sins and called out in faith to Jesus Christ who in turn receives us, and washes us clean of our sins and regenerates us...... once dead but now alive.

Romans 5:1 Romans Chapter 8

[acoolwitness]

Not to God

[21crosscheck21]

But it is to you and the WT correct?

[acoolwitness]

The Government of Jehovah is IN PLACE (with the exception of a few anointed still on the earth, that Government with Jesus as its king is ruling in heaven. Satan and ALL demons have been removed and are here on earth. The heavenly government operates with complete freedom and we are not privileged yet to see all its workings, so yes 21Crosscheck we cant say for sure what department of Gods government is involved in each specific work.

[21crosscheck21]

Hi ACW....  so you are saying that's it's a mystery?

[21crosscheck21]

Thanks for the reply... can you quote a WT source that says that? Other JWS have told me they are not angels.

[21crosscheck21]

They become angels?  Does the WT teach that?

[21crosscheck21]

Not talking about the angels Mike... I am talking about departed anointed ones communicating with live anointed ones as the publications states.

[21crosscheck21]

So what do you think of the claims made in this publication? Do you reject the?

[spintch1]

Filthy dirty apostates everywhere I look. I can't wait for the next tribulation. I will be reading my publications as Jehovah slaughters you all.

Now, would any of you be interested in attending a bible study?

[nathanaelstacy1]

Orrrrrr.... could it be a group of old men who come up with ideas entirely on their own, and then makes claims to supernatural inspiration (or spirit direction, which would be the same thing) in order to legitimize their self-proclaimed authority?

[JAKEV25]

Do you stay up at night just thinking about such silly things?

We are directed by Jehovah's Holy Spirit......Now is that by means of those anointed that have been resuurected and acting as Agents for Jah?.....Could be.....

Isn't your church led by God's Holy Spirit 21?.....If not....time to leave..........

[WatchtowerPusher]

Well said BROTHER JAKEV25

[msm1876]

Would the two JWs who gave me comment below thumbs down please answer the questions I posed in it:

1) What kind of spirits are directing your org?

2) Since Jesus promised that whever 2 or more are gathered in his name, he'd be there in their midst, is Jesus in your midst at your Kingdom Hall on Sunday morning?

[Sabianfan]

3/3...with prayer in his name? Yes. Remember, when Jesus commissioned his followers to do the disciple-making work, he promised: Look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.—Matthew 28:20. There can be no doubt that the Head of the Christian congregation, the Lord Jesus Christ, is keenly interested in all gatherings of his faithful followers. Moreover, we can be sure that he is present with them by means of Gods holy spirit. (Acts 2:33; Revelation 5:6)

[msm1876]

Thanks, Sabianfan. Do you see the implications of that? By this, I mean...if he's there at your KH, he's also there at the one across town, he's also there at the one fifty miles south, he's also there at the one in the southern hemisphere occuring at the same time...doesn't that strike you as a quality of eternally existant deity, to be omnipresent?

[Sabianfan]

msm1876 wrote "..doesn't that strike you as a quality of eternally existant deity, to be omnipresent?"

Glad you asked. Read what Insight p1 p.969 says about omnipresence:

The true God is not omnipresent, for he is spoken of as having a location. (1Ki 8:49; Joh 16:28; Heb 9:24) His throne is in heaven. (Isa 66:1) He is all-powerful, being the Almighty God. (Ge 17:1; Re 16:14) His power and knowledge extend everywhere, reaching every part of the universe.—2Ch 16:9; Ps 139:7-12; Am 9:2-4.

[msm1876]

So, then...does Jesus possess a quality that even the Father does not? That's really strange theology...the creature having a positive quality that the creator does not. Rather than turn this into a debate about whether or not God is omnipresent...what do you thnk it means that Jesus can be in heaven and on earth in the midst of people gathered in his name? Can an angel do this? Gabriel couldn't; he was detained in Persia for 21 days before he could be present in Babylon. (Dan 10:12-15)

[Sabianfan]

C'mon msm1876, I hoped you would understand that if the Almighty God is not omnipresent, Jesus Christ certainly isn't. I referred to Gods power, which extends everywhere, reaching every part of the universe, remember ?

Besides, you and me both know his words as spoken in John 14:28, don't we ?

"YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am."

[msm1876]

Now hang on...and we'll get into God the Father's omnipresence later...but first let's really deal with Matt 18:20. Since Jesus is at your KH at 10 AM on a sunday, he's also at the one across town...and 50 miles south, right? And the one in the southern hemishpere in the same time zone, right? And receving worship in heaven, at the same time (Rev 5:13-14)? Would you not say he has the capacity, based upon that statement in Matt 18?

[Sabianfan]

@ msm1876,

Jesus Christ has the capacity to do everything what Jehovah God allows him and wants him to do by means of his holy spirit, or active force. Jesus, the godlike Son, has always been submitted to his Father, the Almighty God Jehovah, working together with that active force.

With Revelation 5:13,14 (compared with Matthew 18:20) in mind, it is only logical to conclude that it's quite busy up above there and among the Christian congregation here on earth !

[msm1876]

So are you saying that Jesus is making trips between heaven, your town, across your town, fifty miles south of your town and in the same time zone but in the southern hemisphere at 10 AM on a sunday, and isn't in fact in all of those places at once?

[Sabianfan]

msm1876,

no, I'm not saying that, but there are many things that go beyond our human comprehension. One example is the incredible ability to hear all the prayers worldwide, both audible and not audible. Yet Psalms 65:2 calls God the "hearer of prayer" while Jesus Christ said in John14:6,13 "No one comes to the Father except through me. Also, whatever it is that YOU ask in my name, I will do this...".

[Sabianfan]

msm1876,

you'll probably find it interesting what the WT publication "Holy Spirit" (p. 31-34) says:

1/4 Heaven is no place of ease and lounging around, like dangling ones feet over the edge of a slow-moving cloud. The most active Person in all the realm of existence, the central Source of all dynamic energy, is there! His holy spirit as an active force is pervading all the unseen heavens.

[Sabianfan]

2/4 The activity of those inhabiting that realm and serving Jehovah must exceed by far all the activity that is going on throughout our earth today. Distances inconceivably greater than those possible on our earth or from here to the moon need to be covered in the service of the universal Sovereign, Jehovah God. Numberless are the things to be done, besides the giving of attention to our comparatively tiny planet, Earth.

[Sabianfan]

3/4 In harmony with the purposes of the Lord God, his heavenly sons lead a most active life. They are capable of accomplishing far more than we humans can. They are superhuman. Their power we cannot measure. According to Bible history, they have, by holy spirit, been enabled to do things for which Science cannot account.

Holy spirit from god expresses itself in all the heavens as his only-begotten Son, his cherubs, his seraphs and all his angels lovingly serve him, the one living and true God.

[Sabianfan]

4/4 His spirit, imparted to all these loyal ones, produces among them a oneness of the spirit in the uniting bond of peace, to borrow a phrase from Ephesians 4:3. They all cooperate together under the Most High God, Jehovah. By their united service in all the variety of their duties, they are really worshiping him. Such unity of service and worship will never be sundered, not even by demons.Taking the lead in rendering such unswerving service and worship to God is Jehovahs firstborn... Son.

[Sabianfan]

msm1876,

there is more to say. Also consider this:

Insight part 2 p. 1020: Like a powerful breath, Gods spirit can be sent forth to exert power even though there is no bodily contact with that which is acted upon. (Compare Ex 15:8, 10.) Where a human craftsman would use the force of his hands and fingers to produce things, God uses his spirit. Hence that spirit is also spoken of as Gods hand or fingers.—Compare Ps 8:3; 19:1; Mt 12:28 with Lu 11:20.

[Sabianfan]

msm1876,

one more quote to consider:

Insight part 2 p. 1022 As he promised, Jesus upon ascending to heaven requested of his Father the holy spirit, or active force of God, and was granted the authority to employ this spirit. He poured it out on his faithful disciples on the day of Pentecost, continuing to do so thereafter for those turning to God through his Son. (Joh 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:7; Ac 1:4, 5; 2:1-4, 14-18, 32, 33, 38)

[msm1876]

Well, putting aside my disagreement with the HS being God's active force, rather than a person (Jesus call him HE all throughout John 14-16), I'd say you're going to great lengths to skirt around what Jesus was saying:

Whenever 2 or more are gathered in his name, he promised that HE would be in their MIDST. Right there among all of them. And among all gathered cross town at the same time. To be able to be in more than one place at once...it requires you to be eternal deity to do.

[Sabianfan]

msm1876,

I know you disagree with me about the HS. I'm also quite sure that we also disagree about the identity of Jehovah and Jesus Christ and the assumption of them being omnipresent but hey, this happens frequently when JW's debate with others.

At least I hope that you'll find the WT reasoning interesting, because it also allows Jesus Christ to be in total control of everything regarding the Christian congregation as it appears today.

[msm1876]

I appreciate your responses, and you're a nice guy to talk to. And asuuredly, I'm not doing this just do engage in a vain doctrinal debate, but to share the saving Good News with you; and part of that good news involves the REAL Jesus Christ, not "another Jesus" (2Cor 11:4) than the one preached by the apostles.

While we're kinda on the topic, could you wager a guess as to why Jesus calls the Spirit "HE" in Jn 14-16, if he's not a person?

[JAKEV25]

What is the gospel of Jesus Christ?

[Sabianfan]

msm1876,

thank you for wanting to share the good news about the real Jesus with me, but Jesus calling the spirit "HE" is not a problem really. Do you know why ?

Because PERSONIFICATION DOES NOT PROVE PERSONALITY !

Jesus spoke of the holy spirit as a helper and spoke of such helper as teaching, guiding, speaking, etc. but WISDOM is also personified in the book of Proverbs (1:20-33; 8:1-36), Matthew 11:19 and Luke 7:35, where it is depicted as having both works and children.

[Sabianfan]

msm1876,

also consider that the apostle Paul personalized sin and death and also undeserved kindness as kings. (Ro 5:14, 17, 21; 6:12) He speaks of sin as receiving an inducement, working out covetousness, seducing, and killing. (Ro 7:8-11)

So, do we agree that it is obvious that Paul did not mean that sin was actually a person ?

[msm1876]

No, personification does not prove that something is a person! But you go in assuming that the Bible is necessarily using personification when referring to the Spirit.

Riddle me this: When Jesus called the Spirit "Another Paraclete" in Jn 14:16, the gk was "Allos Parakletos." There are 2 greek words for "Another" those being "Allos" and "Heteros." Allos means "another of the same kind" and heteros means "another of a different kind." Jesus was saying that the Spirit was...cont

[msm1876]

like Him! And what was Jesus? A person! If the Spirit was merely a force, Jesus would have used "Heteros," because being a force, and not a person, The Spirit would be UNLIKE him.

[Sabianfan]

msm1876,

is it really justified to use "al'los" in John 14:16as proof for Jesus Christ being the holy spirit, while In the broader context of the N.T. Jesus considers the Father as someone other than himself hundreds of times ?

[msm1876]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! You confuse trinitarianism with modalism! I would readily repudiate that idiotic heresy along with you! I NEVER said the Holy Spirit WAS Jesus, nor did I say Jesus WAS the Father. That's modalism! What I am saying is that in using "allos" is that Jesus was saying that the HS was another LIKE him...a person!

[Sabianfan]

msm1876,

sorry, you're absolutely right about that, but if you believe the holy spirit is a person, and you are not a modalist, then do you believe Jesus Christ and the holy spirit are subjected to the Father within the trinity as seperate persons ?

[msm1876]

Are they subject to the Father? Yes. Absolutely. John 14:26 says the Father will send the Spirit. Sending means the person who is sent was told to go by the person they were subject to; so, yes, the HS is subject to the Father. And so is Jesus 1Cor 15:27-28.

So, toss out Jesus and the Spirit being God, right? Well...not so fast. Subordiantion to another being does not necessarily mean that the being who subordinates is of lesser ontological "stuff." Jesus was subject to Mary...cont

[msm1876]

and Joseph(Luke 2:51)- does this inherently mean that they were cut from a higher ontological cloth than Jesus? Or how about Pharoah being greater than Joseph (Gen 41:41)? Did that mean be was BETTER in NATURE than him?

So, yes, they're subordinate and yet they are eternal persons. And yet there is one God. Could it be that one God is concurrently manifested as 3 persons?

Then I heard the Lord asking, Whom should I send as a messenger to this people? Who will go for us? Isaiah 6:8

[WatchtowerPusher]

BROTHER SABIAN

WHY DID YOU BLOCK ME FRIEND

You should be talking to this guy he is an apostate

[lonny42]

Anybody who questions the Watchtower Society is an apostate. No questioning allowed. What does that tell you? A little logic for you.

[WatchtowerPusher]

Why would ANYBODY WANT TO QUESTION THE WATCHTOWER

ITS THE TRUTH

[lonny42]

How do you know it's the truth???

[WatchtowerPusher]

JEHOVAHS WITNESSES ARE THE MOST PERSECUTED PEOPLE ON EARTH

You are just proving to me its the truth with your hate

[lonny42]

Hate?????? Where did you get hate from? I have no hate for you. I just know it's not the truth from studying the bible as a whole, not just hopscotching around.

How is that hate? And Jehovah's witnesses are not the most persecuted on earth. That's propoganda pushed by the watchtower society, there's no more truth to that than anything else in the jehovahs witnesses religion.

[WatchtowerPusher]

MAY JEHOVAH HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL bitch

[lonny42]

Wow, you sound angry. Certainly not like someone from the loving organisation of Jehovah's Witnesses.

[WatchtowerPusher]

spawn of satan

jehovah kill all of you

[lonny42]

Jehovah's going to kill me????

[WatchtowerPusher]

yes he is

die offspring of viper shit

[lonny42]

Why is Jehovah going to kill me????

[WatchtowerPusher]

because you apostate slander act human not animal pls

[msm1876]

Lonny...if I'm not mistaken, WTPusher is a joker account. He's just some goofball pretending to be a brainwashed, koolaid drinking JW. ;-)

[lonny42]

No, you're not mistaken, I don't know any JW's that actually talk like that.....lol.

[logan500]

@lonny42, WatchtownerPusher is not a Jehovah's Witness. Jehovah's witnesses would never speak like that.. ever.

[Sabianfan]

2/3...whether it be made up of fewer than ten or of several thousand worshipers of Jehovah, for Jesus said: Where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst! (Matthew 18:20) True, when making that promise, Jesus was discussing judicial matters that needed to be handled correctly by those taking the lead in the congregation. (Matthew 18:15-19) But can Jesus words also be applied in principle to all Christian gatherings that are opened and closed...

[Sabianfan]

1/3 @ msm1876,

I'm not one of the down thumbers (LOL), but I'm more than willing to answer your questions.

1. Jehovah leads us through his holy spirit but he also made the glorified Jesus Christ head of the Christian congregation. According to Revelation 14:6, angels are also involved in the preaching work in helping to find "all those who were rightly disposed for everlasting life" (Acts 13:48).

2. w98 3/1 p. 14 says: WHAT a privilege it is to attend a Christian gathering,..

[msm1876]

And while I'm at it, did the Holy Spirit guide the WT to say that it was the Creator's promise that the 1914 generation wouldn't pass away before the new world came into being for over 13 years in Awake magazine?

[Sabianfan]

Please, let's continue tomorrow msm1876, ok ? It's already late and I also would like to spend some family time now...

[msm1876]

Gladly-I see you're in a very different time zone than me. Talk to you then!

[epidome]

Excellent point! The question that you close with can't be ignored, it has to be answered.

[entrsnm3]

I just want to know how all that works. Do the "anointed" whisper information into their ear? Do JW's now believe in continuing revelation? This definitely has lots of implications. It'd be nice if a JW could clear this up.

[21crosscheck21]

Mike what most jws don't realize is that "new light" is in many ways new revelation.

[Sabianfan]

Hello 21crosscheck21,

new light itself isn't a new revelation, but is spiritual enlightenment from Jehovah through means of his holy spirit to progressively understand the revelations as already written down in the Bible. According to Revelation 20:12, new scrolls will only be revealed in Gods new world.

Oh, and 4theFaithful was right about paragraph 17. It didn't change although I hope you will still try to get your hands on the 2006 updated version and read it to get the whole picture.

[21crosscheck21]

Sabian, are there any significant changes to that edition, or is it basically the same message as the one I have,

[Sabianfan]

21crosscheck21,

you asked me if there are any significant changes to the 2006 edition or that it is basically the same message.

As a witness, not an outsider, it's difficult for me to answer that objectively. You probably have a different viewpoint than me so I think it's fair that you will be able to judge for yourself. I will send you the adjustments by mail, ok ?

[21crosscheck21]

That would be great Sabian... Thank you. Do you need an email address or do you want to send it through youtube?

[Sabianfan]

Already on the way !!!

[sldeyo]

And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.-Lev 20:6

[21crosscheck21]

I wonder if the Jw who gave the thumbs down to this comment understood that she was quoting the bible.... in effect you gave God a thumbs down!!!

[JonnyRocketfingers7]

how do you know it was a Jw??? ...just curious you seem confident that it was.

[Directline1000]

the WT says "may be" is because the whole teaching of the WT is going soft.

[supermanny73]

Not being familiar with this book, i'm not sure what claims they actually make, but if I heard you correctly, you alluded to them claiming it may be people who have died that are now leading the org. This is interesting since they do not believe in life after death. If they are "resurected anointed ones" where does the bible speak of this resurection?

[Shazoolo]

Really interesting video crosscheck. Thanks for highlighting this issue in the Revelation book. It's something I keep meaning to look at in more detail. What is the date of that Revelation book you have? I have heard they have changed quite a bit of the book in their new editions and just wonder if they have changed that part you mention. My copy is an older one.

[21crosscheck21]

Hi Shaz.... the one I read is from 1988.  I have also heard that they changed it although I don't know if they changed that part or not. Perhaps one of the Jws here could let us know.

[4thefaithful]

If it says "2006 printing" on the copyright page (they all say 1988 copyright), it is the new version with the changes. I have both and the paragraph you read from on p. 124 has not been changed from the original printing. I'm sure it will be changed eventually...

[21crosscheck21]

I checked it's the 1988 printing. If someone has the 06 printing and could check it that would be great. Maybe I will check the CD.

[Larsinger58]

The WTS has been cast into spiritual darkness. They wouldn't know lots of things in Revelation.

Thanks, great video!!!

They are hung up on trying to explain every verse in the Bible so this is the best they can do.

Sad.

[Newagegamer3018]

Amen, This is a great video. Nice observation my brother in Christ. Blessings.

[Catch22here]

Very good video Crosscheck. You have touched on one of the weakest points in watchtower theology in my opinion. JWs want to have their cake and eat it too and it staggers the imagination that anyone would not see the flaw in their logic if nothing else.

[JWinCT]

NO, the demonic spirits you speak of are the ones that have been directing all of YOUR false religions for more than 4 millenia!! Apostate christendom swallows the poison of satanic teachings: (trinity, hellfire, etc.)---but not for much longer!!!

PRAISE JEHOVAH, YOU PEOPLE!!

[msm1876]

So, who then, is directing your religion? And may I ask, since Jesus said in Matt 18:20 that whenever 2 or more or gathered in his name, he'd be present in their midst, is Jesus present in your Kingdom Hall on Sundays?

[Directline1000]

hm, is this what you believe: that satan has ruled the world for Mileniums - then was sent down to earth in the year 1914 so that he could trick people - something which he had already done. to attack the people of God who were elected 4 years later. Do you believe that story? - because that is the story the WT is telling you.

[LuciousVBogeymanProd]

Ah yes. A sprit directed organization that contains no people who claim spirit direction. Like I put it for anzwertree, its a ship piloted by people who think the ship is driving THEM. Probably going to run aground. :oP Like I told antijehovahwitness, its embarassing to hear apostates say the organization claims to be Gods channel of communication. The truth is they claim both to be and not to be. Orwellian Doublethink.

[entrsnm3]

Silly me for thinking this, but isn't that spiritism? Communicating with the dead, perhaps? Geez, for some reason, I feel like that is kinda condemned in the Bible or something?