1/4 Bill Cooper on Rosicrucian Order (Infopowerment - THELlGHT, NufffRespect, setokaiba22)

[tahuti6]

@mrconradhoppe Many things that Cooper points out about the world and its evil are absolutely true, but to connect it to the fraternity of the Rose Croix is pure bunk. If you had any idea just what we have done to free society from bondage... well, you'd probably want to choke the conspiracy theorists for slandering one of the greatest forces for liberty that ever existed. One big reason for secrecy is that there are many evil forces of great power who would wipe us out if they could.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 What did "you" liberate us for? I know (or think) that you personally have nothing to do with it. But the liberation was first an experiment and second the first step to the Novus Ordo Seclorum, by establishing national governments around the world and get the kings from the thrones, causing chaos later for establishing order afterwards. Man I could give you quite some quotes by Rosicrucians to proof, in fact, have you even listened to this episode??? You can read that book online...

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated We are all very familiar with this conspiracy theory, and fully realize where the confusion and paranoia stems from. Let me make something clear: There are political and economic forces who wish to establish a NWO. Refer to the infamous speech by GHW Bush. These people ARE NOT Rosicrucian. Many years ago we had ideas that may sound similar, but were NOT pertaining to the same thing. We have always desired a better world unified on principles of FREEDOM, it's that simple.

[tahuti6]

People: PLEASE stop and think. Do not suppose that you, Cooper, or anyone else who approaches our science with fear and PREJUDICE, could POSSIBLY have more expertise on the subject of Rosicrucians than we Rosicrucians ourselves do. I'm getting very tired of people who get their educations from youtube, telling me (a Rosicrucian) what We are all about. When I disagree, you say that I'm just not in on the secret; and YOU THINK YOU ARE? You aren't even part of the order. COOPER DID NOT KNOW A THING

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 Well, I guess supporting birth control, the United Nations and the suppression of religion is freedom loving, right? No, I have not been initiated into the order, but may I ask which position you hold? I believe that you have been fooled just like all people who belong to such organizations. Of course nobody tells you what the real goal is (in a way they do, but somehow you seem not to be smart enough to figure it out). And, who, in your opinion, is Mr. RC Christian (georgia guides)???

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated I support Birth Control. Do you support FAMINE? No true Rosicrucian seeks to suppress religion, but rather to alleviate mankind from the OPPRESION OF religion. I support the notion of the UN, but the jury is still out on the intentions of the organization itself. Should it turn out to be oppressive, then I think you find that any FRC you talk to will no longer support it. The "real" goal is on display, just beyond the veil of Isis. To know it, one must first learn to see.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated In my opinion, Mr. RC Christian was a wealthy person or persons, who was a fan or fans of the early Rosicrucian legend. He/she/they didn't really understand what it is all about however. I can tell that you, and many others (contrary to your well meaning convictions) aren't even close to understanding what a Rosicrucian is. I see you all looking in the wrong direction, away from where we are standing. Are we powerful and influential? Of course we are. Evil? Absolutely not.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated How can you suppose to carry your screen name, if you don't even know what the word "Illuminated" means? Again, I appreciate your good intentions, and with further discussion you will find that ours is the same. This word does not refer to the kind of "Illumination" that you people think it does. When a person is truly Illuminated, there is NO MISTAKING IT. It isn't a matter of learning some silly "secret". It is a NATURAL physiological event. We didn't invent it. God did.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 What "science" do we approach with fear and prejudice? I don't care what your beliefs are, but I do care if you are working on a "worldwide government representing all nations, of which today’s United Nations is just the beginning." (Positio p.9). I did stop and think, way before you told me to do so, still come to the same conclusion.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated You didn't "think" hard enough. There are at least TWO conclusions one could arrive at. First off, we all MUST face the reality of globalization. Christians fear it, because of a poor and superstitious misunderstanding of prophecy. But it will happen as a matter of nature's course. It can either be the paradise of divine providence: The New Jerusalem, brought from beyond the veil, or it can be global enslavement, brought by power brokers and fascism. Which would you choose?

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated This is the heart of the matter. You think it's an AGENDA, when in fact it is a science. You think that information and illumination come with rank, or being part of some inner circle; when in fact, the ONLY information IS illumination. A person is either Illuminated or they are not. Illumination is not dispensed, it is obtained by one's own means, and it can occur at ANY degree, or in some cases, without even belonging to any organization at all. It is DIVINE, not human.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 Yes, that's what the illumination as a kind of understanding or experiencing is about. "You think that information and illumination come with rank, or being part of some inner circle;" Not at all. I know that everybody can get to the knowledge of the secret without progressing through the degrees. But I don't believe in illumination because I don't believe that man is divine.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated Do you believe that God is divine? Do you believe that God created man in its own image? All reality is divine my friend. Anything less would be nonsensical. Illumination is merely direct EXPERIENCE of that truth.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated You don't believe in Illumination because you do not have it. It's that simple. And why would you believe in something you haven't experienced? OH wait a minute. That's what faith is isn't it? So you see the difference between religion and RC? We don't BELIEVE in Illumination either. We EXPERIENCE it, and therefore we know what it is. Those who do not have it, do not know. And I would hope that you are skeptical about things you haven't come to know.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 Continue: "with further discussion you will find that ours is the same." - Well, from all that I have read by (what I consider to be Rosicrucians, although you told me that I don't know what that is) Rosicrucians, I don't believe that we could ever intend the same. Why is world government inevitable? I think nation states can work quite well without war. I know that you don't consider yourselves to be evil, but if you force us into something then maybe I consider you to be.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated We don't want to "force" anything, but there are people out there who would. Notice I said that "globalization" is inevitable, it's happening now. When we talk about our vision for the world, we aren't talking about a one world government, we're talking about a state of being, a world of freedom and individual sovereignty. It is important to understand the difference. Those who wish to establish dominion over mankind, they are NOT friends of ours.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 3.: The UN were intended to be oppressive from their very inception, they are communistic in nature and it is not even a secret.

And how do you know what my conception is?? I don't know what yours is, but I think I know what your order's is.

You want to create a perfect world with eternal peace and in balance with nature where "beauty and wisdom and love" prevail and a universal religion based on knowledge and not on faith etc... And that's nonsense if you ask me.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated As I said: The jury is still out on the UN. We do not believe that we CAN create a world of eternal peace, but God can. If you are Christian, you should believe that as well, it's scripture. As for faith vs. knowledge. They are not mutually exclusive, however, when a person experiences God directly, then faith is replaced with knowledge. There is nothing wrong with that.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 4.: Do you consider the MAAT Order and Frater Velado to be Rosicrucian? Is this website Rosicrucian (the whole side and all sides that are linked to it are more then telling, but they even boldly throw the words "per Novus Ordo Seclorum" in ones face)?: svmmvmbonvm . org /

And by the way, there will never be a "New Jerusalem" on this earth. Remember Jesus' words? "My Kingdom is not of this world.". It is the zionist lie that they want Christians to believe to accept the new world order.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated I consider many things to allude to Rosicrucianism, there are many paths, orders, etc... but the true order itself has no public facade. And if we didn't want you to know something, you wouldn't. The big secret is that NOTHING is secret.

You got the scripture right, but you're forgetting the other scripture concerning that very otherworldly kingdom DESCENDING to earth. A common doctrinal mistake is thinking of Heaven as some place we go to, when actually it comes to us.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 "A common doctrinal mistake is thinking of Heaven as some place we go to, when actually it comes to us." Well, I believe that everyone who believes in Jesus carries the Kingdom of God in his heart, but I also believe that we (believers) go there later, so I don't think I made a mistake. "I consider many things to allude to Rosicrucianism" - ok, so how about commenting on the website, can't be denied what they are invisioning, right?

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated The site looks to be a sort of new age soup, mostly inspired by RC, but I can't really speak for it since I'm not personally familiar with its creator/creators. I'm seeing a lot of references to various things that could be loosely associated with some of what RC pertains to. I'd have to study the site more to comment further. Like I said: Many orders call themselves RC, and some do lead an initiate to the real thing, but the real thing has no public facade, it is hidden.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 4.: "And if we didn't want you to know something, you wouldn't." Sure, but you just don't care about the handful of us actually reading your words. But I even think today, you want to get people to get familiar with the more profane of your teachings and to accept your ideas.

"We believe in separation of church and state. Morality should not be legislated. Laws should only exist to protect RIGHTS." - I agree a 100% (with that concept, not that Rosicrucians necessarily support it)!

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated Well personally I care about the handful, or I wouldn't spend time having this conversation. And I would LOVE it if people were more familiar with our ideas. What people are getting from these videos is almost OPPOSITE of the truth, and it's starting to get quite dangerous. Have you considered the possibility that you are being manipulated by the true conspirators who want you to blame their natural enemies? I want you to know everything you can about our real intentions.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 5.: Who cares how you call it? You want to get rid of the rest of us' religions, period. And stop fooling yourselves, yours is a religion, TOO, if it is a science, then proof it!

So you support birth control because of famine? So you are willing to murder people in order to eat? And don't be a hypocrite, the world is not overpopulated in any way, nobody would have to starve. Maybe you go and tell that to the UN, to leave the 3. world nations alone, and maybe they will be able to eat.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated Birth control isn't murder. I can understand if you wish to make that argument about abortion, but birth control is quite different. And we DO NOT want to get rid of religion. We would like to see people free to live by their own beliefs without interference from legislated morality based on the opinions of said religions. There a good many things I would like to tell the UN, but I don't think that they'll listen to me. We don't control the UN. You sound Catholic. Are you?

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated We don't want to get rid of religion. We believe in separation of church and state. Morality should not be legislated. Laws should only exist to protect RIGHTS. Birth control is not murder, it's chemistry. As for ours being a science:

Religion=belief and dogma

Rosicrucianism=a process that is based on the premise that one DOES NOT KNOW and therefore must SEEK... there is no seeking in religion, you are told what to believe from the get-go If that's not proof then what is?

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 Yes, I believe that God is divine, but I think that every part of creation can only have a small piece of that divinity and therefore can't be God (or 'a god'). That's the difference. "we aren't talking about a one world government" - Well, the quote I just gave you from the manifesto proved just the opposite. As far as my knowledge goes, you want to establish a philosophical empire ruled by the great philosophers, I don't consider that "a world of freedom and individual sovereignty".

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated Yes, and that small piece is like a seed. You have just touched on the TRUE nature of RC... Alchemy. That is what we REALLY are. Now illumination is the cultivation of that seed. As for the philosophical empire... think about the phrase itself... it has nothing to do with government. Look into alchemical formula, you will find our meaning. Our empire is one that can exist whether it is one government or many, because it is philosophical, not political. It is a way of life.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 2.: "it's scripture" - what do you mean by that? God has not created a perfect human society, we have to deal with that on our own. And apart from that I only believe in the words that are attributed to Jesus and I don't see any verse where he said such a thing. "when a person experiences God directly, then faith is replaced with knowledge." - No, there is nothing wrong with it, but I don't think that that is meant. How are you going to make ALL people experience God directly?

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated I wasn't implying that God has created a perfect human society. We CAN'T make ANYONE experience God directly. That is the summit to which each individual must climb by their own free will. We can only give assistance by means of certain tools. Alchemy is a process that can only be taught to a certain extent, and the rest depends on a person's will and service to Divinity. However, at some point, Divinity will reveal itself to ALL. That's the scripture I was referring to.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 5.: "Birth control is not murder, it's chemistry." - I do disagree a 100%. That's what happens with pantheists, you don't believe that humans have souls.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated We certainly do believe that humans have souls. We practice an art that deals DIRECTLY with the soul. I believe a fetus has a soul at some point... but birth control doesn't kill a fetus... it disposes of a glob of tissue that has yet to assemble its genetic structure, let alone, house a soul. It isn't until the sperm and egg combine their genes to form a NEW BEING, that there is even a place for a soul to be. That is at least how I see it.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 "What people are getting from these videos is almost OPPOSITE of the truth" - So this was not written and published by the Rose Cross Order? How can it be misleading if it was, the text doesn't even need explanation.

I know quite well that many if not most important scientists of the pasts were members of secret lodges and of the RC Order in particular. But that's what I was trying to tell you. The ruling roman chruch was evil and oppressive, but that doesn't make its opposers good...

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated As for the AMORC, the only secrets kept are the passwords and signs that denote grade. This is so that the order cannot be infiltrated... make no mistake... the RC still has powerful enemies.

The manifesto you read was published by an "outer" order of the RC called AMORC. Your understanding of those words is a matter of subjective interpretation, and that has been shaped by the misinformation you get from these bunk "researchers" like Cooper, these videos shape your reading

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 ...The mystery schools (of which the persecuted scientists I referred to where members) were (rightfully) trying to undermine the church's power, but what they intended wasn't that wonderful either. What about the public historic beginnings of the RC order? What was the Fama Faternitatis all about?

And I understand why all those orders had to operate in secret in times like the dark ages. But who is persecuting you today for your teachings? The Church? The State? The Mob?

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated You bring up an important detail: Secrecy. If you manage to get your hands on a copy of the Rosicrucian manual (same order as the manifesto you quote, AMORC) you will find that those things that were once closely guarded have been made public in modern times. The innermost order (the true RC) is only secret insomuch as it CANNOT be communicated and must be SOUGHT by the individual. Illumination can't be learned from a book...

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 6.: "Religion=belief and dogma" I agree, but I don't (necessarily) agree with that: "there is no seeking in religion" It's based on a dogma, but that doesn't mean that you can't learn. As far as I'm concerned, I always pray to get a better understanding and to see better, but I also use my intellect to learn. And if I should find hard proof that what I believe is wrong, then I will reject it, although I highly doubt that that is going to happen.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated I can't disagree with a single word of that... I wish more religious people acted that way.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 "If that's not proof then what is?" - But you didn't find out that much so far (at least not in the spiritual or 'metaphysical' realm -- that you can prove to others), did you?

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated There is nothing that a person can experience inwardly that can be proven to anyone else. But it's not relevant to the subject. The question isn't whether or not it is empirical science; it is whether or not it is a science PERIOD. In modern academia we have come to see materialism as the ONLY science, but that is pure naivety. Science has clearly forgotten its own roots and foundations. Who was Paracelsus, or Newton? Alchemy is only PARTIALLY empirical.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 That's just where the deception is. There are four major columns on which the new world order gets built, but from the very top downwards they oppose and fight each other. It's like the Vatican exposes the Mystery Schools and they in turn expose the Vatican - both work towards a world system and those people whom I would call the Illuminati are the lucky ones. I don't personally know even one Rosicrucian, but from my studies I can tell that the majority are probably good people...

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated That is a good sounding theory. But isn't it just as logical to conclude that the Vatican has always been opposed to RC, simply because such a thing threatens to usurp the power of a priesthood that places itself between man and God, dispensing "salvation" like some carrot on the end of a stick? The Church has enjoyed a great deal of power over this planet, simply due to mankind's BELIEF in the necessity of its priests as intercessors. Which was forbidden by Jesus BTW.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 Continue: But that's the point. All parties think they are fighting each other although they look forward to accomplish the same goal and all are fooled in the process. And like I said, only because you THINK that your intentions are good, doesn't mean they are, though maybe you're still a kind person. I couldn't get my hand on Rosicrucian writings that didn't confirm what I told you during the argument (at least those by your public leaders).

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated I certainly understand what you are saying. We see that game played in politics all of the time. Left vs Right, when in reality, corporations control it all. This is something that we could go back and forth on all day and never reach a conclusion, because their is no way for either of us to PROVE our point. I will say however, that both the RC and the Church (catholic and protestant) have one thing in common. We both oppose the totally materialistic view of modern science.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 5.: And aren't you (not necess. you pers.) always referring to the return of the golden age? You claim that the true origins (historical; yes I know that there is no "actual origin" in your eyes) of your mystery religion (-science?) is ancient egypt, right?! But that again leads me to the conclusion that your goals aren't that familiar to those of us profane. Weren't the initiates of the egyptian mysteries the tyrannical priest kings? Doesn't sound to kind to me to see that return...

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated Well the rabbit hole goes a bit deeper than ancient Egypt. It's actually older. And the academic understanding of Egypt is ENTIRELY based on an ancient Greek legend, and the conception is being overturned more and more every day. Egyptologists see the priest-kings as tyrannical, because that's how the legend goes, despite a total lack of evidence to support the idea. Meanwhile in Egypt, traditional keepers of history tell a different story that actually MATCHES archeology.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated Academia has ZERO concept of the depth of the symbolism found throughout the old kingdom, they claim that the pyramids were tombs, despite the FACT that ZERO archeological evidence has been found to support that idea. They see the great statues as monuments to the EGOS of the KINGS, and refuse to acknowledge the geological data (from REAL scientists) that show the kingdom to be WAY older than their silly Greek legend says. In a nutshell, the "established" view is not solid.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 6.: And, I suppose that you don't, but do you understand german? Because I wrote an article a few months ago about the Rosicrucian's intentions for a new world order, maybe you would read it and comment on it?

And I guess I get your point, but don't you think it is quite arrogant to say that your beliefs are science without having hard facts?

OK, that's it so far...

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated No, I don't. And yes... you are ABSOLUTELY right that it is quite arrogant to make that claim... which is another reason why we generally practice silence.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 I know that it was published by only a outer order, but it still contains phrases that stand for themselves. And I never would call Cooper a "bunk researcher". How comes you still didn't explain to me that he is reading from YOUR book. Is the book misinformation or not? Are the works of Swinburne Clymer, H.S. Lewis, Ralph Lewis, Max Heindel and those who are simply referred to as "The Imperator" or "F.R.C." or "Frater such and such" or "Grandmaster of whatever" and so fort ....

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated Again... those words can be interpreted in different ways. An initiated person does not read into it the same way you do, because we UNDERSTAND the symbolism, the terminology, and therefore the intention of the words. That's my whole point. Outsiders who don't understand the symbolism ASSUMING that they know something about us that we don't. Interpret this: The white dragon is fed its breath, to issue forth the black and red dragons, who in time consume each other.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 Well, I didn't know that this is a quizgame. I'm not that sure, but I would interpret it like: The initiate (who is to become divine) has to get rid of "his personality" (I don't know how to put it) by partaking of the divine nature.- I thought of that because the dragon symbolizes the earth element or the initiate, the breath symbolizes the spirit and white in this case would stand for purity and illumination, black for death (ignorance, superstition?) and red for the carnal nature.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated It kind of was a quiz game... as philosophical as your answer was, I was communicating a simple chemical process... it could be applied to a metaphysical medium, but the allegory was to denote steps in a physical alchemical process. I hope this serves to illustrate the communication gap that can sometimes lead to poor assumptions.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 OK, at least I tried. Since I never went into the rosicrucian concepts of self mastery or whatever, simply because I'm not interested in any way, I have to admit that I don't understand that language at all. But my interpretation wasn't philosophical, I didn't make that up, I learned those symbols from the writings of initiates. The interpretation I gave maybe didn't apply to that specific allegory, but you certainly do teach it's content, don't you?

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated You put all of the symbols put in the wrong place. The red dragon is the egoic soul, or "sulfur". The black=the body, or "salt". The white= the spirit, or mercury. You got the breath thing spot on, notice that the "white dragon"= the same spirit that IS the breath it feeds on? That is true in the vegetable, mineral, and animal realms. All spirit is the same spirit, just at different rates of vibration. That's your "Holy Spirit". But it's also chemistry.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 So maybe I mixed red and black but the outcome would be the same.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 "I hope this serves to illustrate the communication gap that can sometimes lead to poor assumptions. " - Probably, but again, I don't care about your supposed science, I care about your goals regarding society etc. But I think it also demonstrated that not all of us uninitiated are as stupid as you think. I know that adepts and initiates always write in an esoteric language, and I try to get it's meaning, though it may not always work, but then I just leave it uninterpreted.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 Also you still didn't answer what the content of the book Cooper is reading from is all about. I think in the later parts there are phrases which need no interpretation at all. And by the way, how many of his broadcasts did you listen to?

But anyway, I wasn't even referring to the Bav. Illum.. I was simply saying that a great portion of the Vatican's leadership is now made up by Masons. "stain on all esoteric societies" - that much is true.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated So what exactly is it that he is reading that makes you uncomfortable? That there are those who are initiated and understand the order? That there are those who do not? That's just the way things go.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 No, that doesn't bother me at all. What bothers me is that your order and related ones are trying to bring about the new world order. Clymer boldly admits that in his article "Introduction to the Great Seal" in this book. And he says: "May it not be long until the Holy Pyramid shall be completed and may it be completed without the shed of blood." Now isn't that nice? Without the shed of blood, but he doesn't say that it will be without...

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 ...Why would he even mention this if it wasn't a possibility? He knows that many people won't accept it, but he wishes to accomplish it by other means than violence. OK.

So now again please let me know whether you also accept quotes by masons and members of the "Rosicrucian Fellowship" so I can prepare a short list of quotes for you. Thanks.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 Further you haven't refuted my argument that you probably don't hold the highest position in your order. The Illuminati were a stain on the esoteric schools, because the highest adepts think of the members on the lower ranks as useful idiots. But let's not keep on talking about this, we won't probably ever agree on this point.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated At one time I was wholly convinced of the same thing. After more than twenty years of experience with this, I now KNOW that it was all based on misinformation, speculation, and dogmatic fear. Nothing more. And no, we simply won't agree. To agree, either you would have to have an experience that you can't even conceptualize until having; or I would have to un-experience my own awakening, and unlearn what I now know. Seek and ye shall find. But work out your own salvation.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 OK, so let's keep it like this. "Seek and ye shall find." - right. "But work out your own salvation." - Depends on how you would interpret this, but I bet my understanding differs much from yours.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated I'm sure it does. But that's ok.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated No, the Bavarian Illuminati were a stain because their initiation was an introduction to total nihilistic materialism. Their big secret was ultimately that there were no secrets, no God, no purpose. That is markedly different (and far less genuine and natural) than true initiation. They were called Illuminati, but were NOT illuminated. To answer your question: depends on what order. I can tell you this much:there is only ONE light, and I have experienced its illumination.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated I will not refute or affirm any statements regarding my position in ANY order. I have already stated that the true order of the RC is entirely hidden, and for VERY good reasons, so I cannot comment on that. However, I can tell you that the public order I am most affiliated with is AMORC... this should help to narrow down and focus your end of this debate to something more direct. In the AMORC, of course I am not in the highest position, and it is quite irrelevant.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated Furthermore... What blows your theory out of the water is that the "lower ranks" NEVER receive any instruction to do ANYTHING by ANYONE! So how can higher adepts be using lower initiates to DO anything, if nobody is ever given anything to do? This is another example of how IGNORANCE is causing misconception. You have no clue how an esoteric order works, why it works, and neither did Cooper, or any of the other clowns out there who feed you this crap.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 As for the quotes, I will send you a PM with some either today or tomorrow, but first please let me know whether you accept only quotes by rosicrucians or masons as well? And do you consider Max Heindel and Manly P. Hall as rosicrucians (they belonged to (Hall) or rather founded (Heindel) the Rosicrucian Fellowship).

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 2.: Like I said, I'm not sure. But what if I'm absolutely wrong? Did I say that I went into the depths of Alchemy? There is something funny here. In one of your comments you told me that nothing in your order is secret except the signs and passwords. And now you say that it is useless for profane ones like me to even read the works of your greatest writers, because I don't even understand anything unless I am initiated into the order. Either you lie or are scared of the truth...

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated No... It's not pointless to read it at all. In fact, everything someone wants to know about this order, they can learn in a library. I'm just saying that when we communicate with each other, we do so in a language of symbol and allegory, the very same symbol and allegory that was NECESSARY for our own understanding to begin with... but it takes a great deal of time and effort to learn that language. Cooper was good at uncovering things, but not interpreting things.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 3.: And is it the Order of the Rosae Crucis that you are a member of? Because if yes, then you must have read an article by "the Supreme Grand Master of the Fraternitas" called "America's War on Terrorism". I would love to hear your comment on that.

By the way the theory that I presented earlier can be proven, at least in part. The leadership of the Vatican has been infiltrated by members of the mystery schools some time ago.

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated So this infiltration can be PROVEN? Not much of an infiltration then is it? I'm certain that the Bavarian Illuminati made several failed attempts before their demise. They were a stain on all esoteric societies, and the prime reason for the latest wave of paranoia.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 4.: ...Masons and jesuits have been working tog. for some time also in secret. And don't say I didn't mention your specific organization, you know quite well that all the different mystery schools make up one body.

And I have some questions: Am I going to be part of the "6th root race", and who is? If not, what will you be doing with people like me? Well, I could give you some quotes by Rosicrucians to answer the questions, but I am not able to understand their meanings anyway, right?

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated Go ahead, I'd like to hear the quotes, be sure to source them. And mystery schools usually operate independently, however the traditions they keep refer to a few particular orders of a bygone era. There is a central and hidden order of sorts, and if you happen to be an earnest and reverent seeker of truth, with TRUE understanding of divine grace and providence, you can easily enter its lodge.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 5.: And by the way: Go to your lodge's library and look for one of the 1980 or 81 editions of either the Rosicrucian Digest or La Roise Croix (I don't remember perfectly) and search for an article about the Gerogia Guide Stones. You will find that it is openly admitted there that they have been erected by your order!

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 ... in the issues of the Rosicrucian Digest nonrosicrucian misinformation or not (yes I know, that the people I named did not all belong to the same organization of the RC)?

"the "established" view is not solid" I know that quite well, but whatever the kings of Egypt did, they WERE KINGS!!! Is that freedom in your eyes? I don't care if a ruler is "nice" or "good" or whatever, I am not a baby, I want to be free and nothing else. And that again tells me something of your goals!

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated Solomon was a king, His father David was a king... for that matter, Jesus is "king of kings". We're referring to a time when most humans were beating each other over the heads with blunt objects as a matter of routine. Like it or not, at one time in human history, kings were quite necessary. It's a big stretch to assume that a return to the golden age is to be interpreted as a return to monarchy. The whole premise is a return to humans being spiritually active.

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 Hey man, I wasn't finished ;)

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated sorry



[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 6.: And now don't think that I am attacking you. But I think that you are on the wrong road and if you really believe in a universal one world concept I think that is a deception, because it is completely illogical. What would a global government be good for? In fact, even if it was based on libertarian ideals, it wouldn't work, because maybe the earth is a bit bigger then you thought...

[YouAreNotIlluminated]

@tahuti6 Right here: //ia700308. us . archive. org/22/items/fundamentallaws00­ordegoog/fundamentallaws00orde­goog . pdf

And maybe you read the most recent AMORC manifesto : rosicrucian . org/publications/positio . pdf

Also check out this site: svmmvmbonvm . org/index . shtml

[tahuti6]

@YouAreNotIlluminated Of course I have read the new manifesto. Read it again yourself, and you will see that it only serves to make my point. Our agenda IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN the liberation of humanity from the chains of oppression and ignorance. We DID help to create this country, and yes, we intend for those ideals of liberty and individual sovereignty to spread globally. BUT DO NOT CONFUSE THAT WITH THE SELFISH AND HEARTLESS NWO AGENDA OF GREEDY BANKS AND CORRUPT GOVERNMENTS. We are enemies.