Alexander the Great when shown about the writings of Daniel even concluded that he was the one written in the prophetic books. There are lots of prophesies regarding the coming of Jesus and most are fulfilled in His first coming and there others that are expected to be fulfilled when He comes back.
Absence of concurrent historical record means that the event didn't really occur. Take for example the existence of Nebuchadnezzar or the Hittites were doubted before because they said there are no archaeological evidence and so they said the Bible must be wrong but then discoveries were made and thousands of artifact were unearthed proving the Bible to be correct. The rise of Medes and Persian, Alexander the Great and the division of his entire to 4 parts were predicted in the book of Daniel.
@peyupsgurl the simpler explanation remains that the (unknown!) writers of the gospels were merely writing stories to "fulfill prophecy." If you want to believe the supernatural explanation go right ahead. I won't be joining you as it's highly unlikely.
I wonder why theists can do such mental gymnastics in defense of their 'opium', but can't seem to understand or even see the truth in the evidence for naturalism.
All one should need to do is find a cut for a road and closely study the layered deposits.
Young Earth changed by the Flood? What about similar on Mars? Did God kill all the Martians because there was no Noah or trees etc to save them?
This guy believes mystery itself. Check out; Homeopathy, Cure or con, marketplace CBC, on youtube. At 8:10 min. the Homeopathic manager says, 'it's somewhat of a mystery' Homeopathy has 6,000 medications in Canada, completly absurd, unfounded science... but still some people believe it.
I really wish i could take the time to disprove your attempts at disproving the LORDS word. But like i said im only 17 years old and ive got other things to deal with. Maybe you should try disproving the bible code....Oh and why is it when every athiest has a near death experience they immediatly become a christian afterwards? Im sorry but im done with this. Im too young for this subject, and Im afraid that I may harden your heart even more...
@Ridikai the bible codes have already been disproven--there's nothing for me to do. They found similar codes in Moby Dick... and really in any book of sufficient length.
And you're wrong if you think all atheists become christian with near death experiences. You're fed a bunch of lies and you believe them. It's funny actually.
Alright, I wasnt talking about prophecies that Jesus fullfilled but whatever. I find it strange that athiests like you have such a big strive to disprove one religion. Out in the world I tend to converse with people about relegions and beleifs. Buhdism, whatever other ones that are out there.(continued at next post.)
@Ridikai I have a "big strive" to disprove Christianity because it's the religion I was raised in and the religion of my family and most people I know. It's what I know. It's not Christianity, it's me. If I was raised muslim I'd be talking about that religion. I mean do I really have to explain something that simple?
They are interested to here and frankly underneath it all dont give a care about it. Whenever I mention Jesus Christ. They immediatly put a wall up like they have some sort of ...enmity(emnity?) towards the truth.
@MystryBox NO you just twisted what I said, a LOT of athiests that werent even raised as christians have the same motivation as you do. I wasnt zoning in on you. And again you twisted what I said...or maybe you just didnt understand what I mean with your athiest mentality. "the problem with people that mention Jesus isn't Jesus its the people who mention Jesus--" Your right it isnt Jesus. Its the person who is putting the wall up.
@Ridikai the reality is you don't know the first thing about Jesus. You think you do, but you don't. You know a bunch of bull that your church has taught you, that's all.
How can athiests even sleep at night? Scientists with their high tech technology cant find even find a planet as perfect as ours...well its not so perfect any more.....Water...Fire....earth....air....What we are and what we have cant happen out of some random big bang or stupid evolution. Its impossible. There has to be a creator holding everything steady. Evolution you might say? Then why do monkeys and apes still exist in their original form? how come they arent retarted little humans?
THey may be going extinct. But thats our fault. alright NOW IM DONE. Have fun making videos trying to disprove something that was forced down your throat as a child. That will definately get you somewhere in life.
@Ridikai believe whatever you want. just don't fool yourself that it makes sense. I mean you know in church a lot of the stories even you have a difficult time accepting. And you don't know the half of it yet being so young.
Ok i thought about it . what good would god do me ? he is formless but yet i never seen him i may have manifested him through fear in my mind but if god is so powerful we could never exist in his presence . when you work hard live large and have experience boredom and cynical retardism what sense does it make to prove we love god ? im not at war with god because god doesnt exist .
something has happened to you in the past that caused you to deny god probably something pretty bad. you are almost afraid that he exists but you really believe what you believe. you seem to look toward science and astrophysics to replace the role of god in your life but it doesn't quite fit. you want more than science has to provide because it always has those unfortunate boring spreads of mathmatical facts, all pointing to randomness. do you know the true nature of god? the power? the love?
How about explaining this prophesy made by Zechariah over 500 years before Jesus was born.
Zechariah 11:13 And the LORD said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.
Break it up into 2 parts. : “Throw it to the potter”—the handsome price at which they priced me!
Phophecy of both Judas`s betrayal of Jesus and confirmation a price was set
@FeignofCordor sure, no problem to explain that prophecy. The guy who wrote the book of the new testament was familiar with the prophecy and wrote a story to "fulfill it". That happens all over the New Testament--that is exactly the sort of prophecy the video is explaining.
Now how about you explain the discrepancy between the claims of how Judas died without making up some new combined story no bible writer wrote. See In Matthew 27:5 vs Acts 1:18.
So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.
Here you have fulfilment of both the exact price for the betrayal of Jesus of 30 pieces of Silver the prophecy also tells of the silver being thrown to the floor in the Temple and last of all like in the first part of the verse you have the potter in which the priests buy the Potters field the place where Judas hung himself.
Maybe it was made up but do consider that he wrote it within 50 years of the event. Considering that the church was under persecution it would make since for Matthew to get every detail write as it would make since for me to try to get every detail write in an argument for theism
@Bycoon the fact is nobody knows for sure who wrote "Mark" "Luke" "John" and the other gospels. The early church added the names later. What we do know is they were written decades after Jesus' supposed death, borrow verbatim from each other (as well as from earlier legends) and they are full of stories written specifically to fulfill OT prophecy just like this video describes. I don't know about you but that's hardly the sort of thing I would center my life around.
@MystryBox I could agree with a few things. Yes, the gospels were anonymous but, the uniform testimony of the early church is that Matthew also called Levi the tax collector, wrote Matthew. John Mark wrote Mark. And Luke wrote the gospel of Luke and the acts of the apostles. There were no known competitors and these were written by some unlikely characters. I would say yes they did write it to show Jesus was the Messiah but why? They were being killed for it, I doubt they would die for a lie.
@Bycoon obviously the early church would think that but the reality is they're guessing. As for martyrs, every religion has them. People will die for what they believe in regardless if it is true. Even if we make the large assumption that certain people wrote the gospels and that the stories told about their deaths were true (both merely tradition and not settled history), all that shows is that someone believed.... not that what they believed was actually true.
@MystryBox Lol you forget that the disciples claimed that they saw Jesus after He died and 500 others. When Peter was cruxified around 68 A.D. He saw his wife hanging across from him. You know just saying but when you see your wife dieing for something you know is a lie and the cause is invain I think thats when I would tap out and say sorry guys this is a lie. Yet no one did, under intense persecution. Also the early church had a reason to believe it was written by matthew mark luke and john
@Bycoon you forget these are anonymous claims in a document that includes obvious fraud like what this video describes. We don't have the word of 500 witnesses, we have the word of an anonymous writer making claims decades after the supposed events took place. If a writing surfaced today telling of miracles around the death of Elvis along with 500 witnesses and martyr deaths do you believe it simply because someone wrote it? There is no outside evidence for these writings!
@MystryBox No I really don't think you "proved" anything. You more of just added doubt, prove? Not really. But if Jesus is the Messiah what should prove it? His life fulfilled the prophecies. If He resurrected what to things do we need? That He died and that people saw Him afterwards. If He is God what proof do we need? That He did stuff only God could do. I believe Jesus proved every single point. If your looking for writing outside of the church there is plenty!
@Bycoon "plenty" of documentation outside the bible of Jesus? Name one written at the time of Jesus was alive and doing his supposed miracles that documents him. Just ONE. No credit for Josephus as that's considered a later Christian interpolation. When you fail to find even one you'll have to rephrase "plenty" to "none."
@MystryBox Lol you expect to find one during the time Jesus did His ministry? Considering the Christian church started after Jesus died I would find it hard to believe there was ANY written during the lifetime of Jesus
@Bycoon historians lived at the time of Jesus... some even in the very towns he supposedly did his miracles (e.g. Philo). And yet none mention Jesus. But yes once a church started up then they were really good at documenting all the supposed miracles that supposedly happened decades to centuries earlier... and strangely some of the miracles were stolen directly from preexisting legends, for example Peter walking on water (and sinking when he lost faith) is an earlier Buddhist legend.
@MystryBox Don't you think it makes since that once the church started up that writings of Jesus would start spreading? The church believed that Jesus is the messiah and they wanted that message to be spread. Like the holocaust muesam, it was formed by Jewish Scholars, why? Because they wanted the holocaust remembered so it does not happen again. Wouldn't the christian church want the same? An accurate recording of Christ to show to everyone who the real Messiah is
@Bycoon even if the Jesus stories were well documented (which they're not) they still wouldn't be rational to believe because there are simpler, more likely explanations. See my video "Is the Resurrection Believable?" for more on that.
@MystryBox Yes of course Jesus acts were not miracles. He only multiplied matter, walked on water, and raised the dead. Totally likely and yes I will look at ur Resurrection video lol
@Bycoon as I've already said over and over, you know nothing of what Jesus did or didn't do except via writings from unknown authors who were writing much later and with an obvious agenda. If you weren't so biased you'd easily be agreeing on how poor the evidence is. You're free to believe how you wish but there is nothing there for informed and intelligent people who aren't already believers determined to believe no matter what.
@MystryBox Lol you know writings about someone around 30 ad would be the most reliable source to know wat someone did or didn't do specifically. Who the authors were is not as important as wat they wrote. Ive already explained its much more reasonable to believe that wat they wrote was recorded not made up. And after reading case for Christ I believe that there is good evidence that support a reason for believing in Christ.
@Bycoon who the gospels authors were is unimportant? Really? And I agree that what they wrote would be important... and unfortunately what they wrote is fraud (one example given in this video), legends stolen from previous religions, conflicting accounts of supposed miracles (the conflicts exposing the falsity), etc. etc.
@MystryBox You only reported that the slaughter in Bethleham was not recorded by historians? that doesn't prove it didn't happen it just proves that there could of been plenty of stuff that Hereod did that was not recorded. Also all the teachings and miracles were all eyewitnessed by the people of Israel, they were probaly still alive or told their children and could easily refuted if it wasn't true meaning the writers probaly scrutinized to get the details right not make something up
@Bycoon the video gives just one example of gospels writers doing that sort of thing. Over and over they mention little stories and reference OT verses to say Jesus fulfilled this and that. And given the options... Jesus being a god and rising from the dead and doing all those other miracles despite no documentation from anyone at the time... or some unknowns simply writing stories decades later claiming those things in order to make a Messiah.... it's obvious which is more likely.
@MystryBox probaly because they had a relationship with them and if anyone would know who wrote the bible it would be the church. But also consider I really don't think they care who wrote it as long as it was true. We can confirm that the gospels and the rest of the new testament was written atleast 50 years after Christ death so the teachings that Jesus said wouldn't only be known by the disciples but it would be common knowledge by everyone. So I would assume that the gospels were written
@MystryBox accurately. Because if Matthew really did believe that Jesus was the Messiah he wouldn't make up stories to prove that Jesus was the Messiah by prophecies but he would use stories that were common knowledge to show that Jesus was the Messiah. I would say that would be the same for all the gospels. Like look how the gospel of Matthew is written. Its not written jsut to show that Jesus is the Messiah but it is written for christians to show the jews of who Jesus was.
@Bycoon actually it's likely because whoever wrote "Matthew" believed Jesus was the Messiah that he made up the stories about Jesus fulfilling various prophecies. Because if he was the Messiah he must have fulfilled them right?
@MystryBox I think its more likely the other way around. Look at the way Jesus did His ministry, He pretty much proved He was the Messiah before anyone believed He was the messiah. Infact it was like the chapter 16 in Matthew till someone realized He was the Messiah. Also look at the gospel of John, John lists signs showing that Jesus is the Messiah. So it would make more since that the writer of Matthew believed Jesus was the Messiah based on Jesus life and records them in Matthew.
@Bycoon the only things we know about Jesus and his supposed ministry are writings by unknown authors who were writing decades after the supposed events and clearly making things up to paint Jesus as the messiah. There is not a single source documenting Jesus' ministry from the time he lived, period. Not one. Historians of the time are entirely silent on his existence let alone his ministry. This is probably news to you but it's true and you can confirm it yourself.
@halo5532 sure. of course the facts of translations errors, and such underline how silly the whole idea of a written "word of god" is. If a god did exist and had something for us to know, he'd do better of communicating it than what we observe our religions do.
How would he do better? He came to Earth and was witnessed doing miracles and some of the witnesses (Apostles)authored books telling of these miracles and his words. Could you get a better way than first hand witness accounts?
@FeignofCordor they're not first hand accounts to me. They're anonymous writings that make highly unlikely claims that are not likely true. Does your idea of a first hand account always involve writings that nobody even knows who wrote them?
So what I read from this is the dates correspond and they agree that Mark and Luke possibly authored their Gospels but even were it says Author unknown because evidence is less strong such as with Matt and John you don`t see them find that it wasn`t authored by Matt and John just that the evidence wasn`t sufficient enough for them. So it boils down top whether you choose to believe or not.
@FeignofCordor no, it boils down to what is worthy of belief and why it is worthy of belief. Conflicting, anonymous writings making unlikely claims that fly in the face of observed reality and that copy preexisting legend, and also write stories specifically to "fulfill" known OT prophecy (i.e. FRAUD)... that is not worthy of your time let alone your belief.
Higher Criticism is a branch of literary analysis that investigates the origins of a text. As applied in biblical studies it investigates the books of the Bible and compares them to other texts written at the same time, before, or recently after the text in question. In Classical studies. Their findings are: (Mark) anonymous, perhaps Mark,mid to late 1st century.(Matt) An unknown author late 1st century(Luke)Luke or an unknown author late 1st cent (John) An unknown author.
@sleekbleek16 thanks for the sub. And people argue with me because they think they're right. Hopefully after some discussion with me they at least consider the possibility that maybe ancient stories about magic apples and talking snakes might not have much basis in reality. Or at least we can hope.
When [Augustus] heard that Herod king of the Jews had ordered all the boys in Syria under the age fo two to be put to death and that the king’s son was among those killed, he said "I’d rather be Herod’s pig than Herod’s son".
@BalladoftheWindfish here is some education for you. In the future please research a bit before you post.
The Saturnalia is the first non-Christian reference to the supposed massacre. It was written some 400 YEARS after the supposed event and merely repeats the legend already written down in the bible stories. Historians living at the time of the supposed incident oddly don't mention it at all. Why is that do you suppose?
@MystryBox It could have been for any of a number reasons, but I don't have to tell you that the argument from silence is one of the weakest of arguments. Second, if you're not a historian, I would refrain from conjecture.
@BalladoftheWindfish You come on here posting ignorant comments showing that you don't know anything about the subject and now you lecture me on weak arguments? Are you for real? The one conjecturing here is you. You hold a position that has no evidence. If you can't admit the facts at least stop talking and making yourself look sillier.
Because when you ask your own mind. And not what created EVERYTHING around you. You go by your own human understanding. And what your mind thinks for the reason Earth is here and you are here. Don't you see? Don't any of you see? You don't know why your here. It was MEANT for MAN to not know why they are here. So stop trying to come up with ideas in your own head for that reason. It's beyond your understanding obviously. Read what Jesus say's, and ask. Then he will make it all come true.
Because when you ask your own mind. And not what created EVERYTHING around you. You go by your own human understanding. And what your mind thinks for the reason Earth is here and you are here. Don't you see? Don't any of you see? You don't know why your here. It was MEANT for MAN to not know why they are here. So stop trying to come up with ideas in your own head for that reason. It's beyond your understanding obviously. Read what Jesus say's, and ask. Then he will make it all come true.
The man writing about the helicopters was put INTO the future. He had no other way to explain it than giant locusts.
I had a dream once. I woke up, and this was real. I was completely aware of everything around me. It wasn't a dream that jumps around when ur sleeping I actually woke up.
Anyways, I woke up and something evil was standing over me. It said "You're not worthy, your are weak, and god will have nothing to do with you" Now I didnt have this dream till i got born again. So ^continured
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe Evil won't work on people who are already lead off track. It saw that I was born again and it attacked me (Spiritually).
Just remember, mystery. You wlll be forever blind to Christ. You will never know him. EVER. You can say anything you wan't about him but it doesn't prove or disprove anything. You know why?
Because your not born again. If you don't ask he won't show you. And you will be forever blind. The only way to know if this is true is to ASK. It says several times. So ask
@MystryBox LoL w/e. You lie when you say you are willing and I give you more evidence than anyone probably ever would on youtube. Not because I want to prove to myself as you just said but to prove to you. Keep living in your mysterybox.
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe "The man writing about the helicopters was put INTO the future. He had no other way to explain it than giant locusts"
Or maybe it was giant locusts. Locusts were one of the plagues in Egypt. Sounds more like a bad mushroom trip to me. With a name like Kronik 4 Life, I'm sure you know all about hallucinations.
SOOO. Since man has been around for 6000 years now. in a span of 80ish years. man has gotten so intelligent. Then you have the birth of SCIENCE. Jesus spoke that in the end times there will be things to deceive even the ELECT. (Intelligent believers) The anti christ will come to say Jesus is not the way , i"m the one and would need things like this to succeed. T.V, Radio, Science, ECT. Kthxbai. Jesus Saves!
Look at the book of revelation. It speaks of Helocopters, Atom bombs going off, and gods wrath. But it speaks of this through a person (John) From way in the past. And he is seeing the future, end times, (NOW). You know it's now because in 50 years we would advance way past the need of helicopters and even more powerful weapons. Also we have gotten so advanced in the past 80ish years. We can fly. And we have to t.v and radio for the anti christ to show himself to the hole world.
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe Revelation does not speak of helicopters or atom bombs. You're reading into it the issues of the day, the same as people have been doing since it was written. Every generation for the last 2000 years reads it and thinks it applies to them. That's because it's just a bunch of metaphorical junk... it can be thought to apply to anything. Wake up.
I was a christian until I actually began to look at the actual history and origin of the bible. All stories in the new testament were written after the death of Jesus. Therefore like you said it would be very easy to "fake" a prophecy. Even parts of genesis were plagiarized from a Sumeria religion. The sumerians had a story that was nearly identical to the story of Adam and eve.
he sent his only begotten son Jesus Christ, or God in the flesh to die for us so that we might be saved if we CHOOSE to be. I can tell ya, I'm not looking forward to judgment necessarily. I've done stuff, that when God judges me, I'll feel ashamed, and really, I just don't want to think about it. But I am excited to go to heaven because Jesus died for those sins. =)
I've wondered the same thing why he would create us knowing we would sin. But I think it's just that he loves us so much he wants us to be with him forever in heaven, regardless of the fact that he knew we'd sin...because we can still be in heaven thanks to Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.......Idk man, there are some things that I don't understand obviously. Some things only Yahweh understands.
@hoopz2598 no theist ever admits when I'm correct. However once a theist says "only god knows" or "god's ways are not our ways" or similar, that is as close to an admission as I'm going to get.
lol because I can't agree with you on 98%of this topic, you're an atheist and I'm a Christian. Anyways, there's nothing to say, it's up to you to do what you want to do.......but a couple prophecies I'd like to mention is that when Jesus comes back the Mount of Olives is supposed to split from east to west, guess what? Geologists discovered a fault line going from EAST TO WEST. Also, God said he'd bring back his ppl (Jews) to Israel. You know how many Jews have gone to Israel now?
If you don't think that this prophecy is shocking, or proof that the Bible and Word of God is real, then I don't know what to say. Search "10 bible prophecies fulfilled recently" on google and click the first link. You can look at all the prophecies fulfilled, but look at the one at the very bottom of the page. Now you tell me how in the world that's not God's word to be able to predict that 2,000 years ago or somethin.
On your first point....that confirms prophecy. Read Zechariah 12. It says that God will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people....and that all the people of the earth will be gathered together against it. And like you said, Jerusalem, part of Israel, still has plenty of enemies. For your second point, you can just look up videos or google the rebuilding of the temple. The plans are already made, and they have red heifers already prepared to rebuild the temple. One problem is that..
the location of the rebuilding is right where the dome of the rock is. So I don't know how they're going to get it rebuilt. But it WILL happen. It's just a matter of time. And if you live to see that take place, then you'd be a fool to still deny the truth of God's word. Also, I don't know where you got that fact about fewer trees, but from what I've just found on Wikipedia, I KNOW, not the most reliable source, but it says that Israel is a major exporter of fresh produce. But..
But even if there is rocky areas mostly, the vegetation is still growing. And like I said, from what I read, Israel is a major exporter of fresh produce aka fruit. Now please..go on.
@hoopz2598 This hardly constitutes prophesy fulfilled. The world ain't filled with fruit, the temple ain't rebuilt, there are fewer trees, Israel not victorious over enemies.
Even if true, what does this tell us?
The Oracle at Delphi was an equally good predictor of the future. That doesn't tell us the Olympian gods are real, that Hercules was the son of Zeus, that Herc performed miracles, or that Hades awaits us after death.
The Oracle at Delphi.......don't know much about her. But what's true is that if the God of Abraham gives someone a vision or dream, it will come to pass 100% of the time. I doubt the Oracle at Delphi was 100% correct with all her predictions. And what has she predicted to happen in our time? I'm guessing nothing. The Bible has prophecies that are being, and will be fulfilled in OUR time, and that were written like almost 2,000 years ago.Really theres nothing to say.Truth is truth
@hoopz2598 Vague prophesy, whether by the Oracle or the Bible, is without value. Without precise times, the prophesies are like prayer (apparently yes/ not yet/no). Without the ability to distinguish between "not yet" and "no", the best we can say is the Bible and the Oracle are decent wishful guesses and subject to interpretation.
But let's look at consistently precise prediction, aka Science. Science is not subject to interpretation and contradicts the Bible in several places.
@hoopz2598 yeah well all the crazy church ppl say god already planned out lives so we have no free will... in a way we are all brainwashed puppets. why dont we do watever we wanna do cuz THERE IS NO GOD.. THE BIBLE IS JUST STORIES DONT LISTEN TO IT DONT E BRAINWASHED LIKE PEOPLE I KNOW BUT I SAW THROUGH ITS LIES AND IM LIVIN HOW I WANT
@hoopz2598 I saw that video. All it was is a scared man facing death who turns to the religion of his culture and then happened to get better. People facing death will do irrational things. And people sometimes get better and sometimes don't--it doesn't matter what their faith is.
Then again, you're comparing it to Yahweh, who is perfect, so just think of how filthy we are for all of our sins....Anyways, whether you believe in the true scripture or not, Jesus is returning soon, and I just hope that you're ready when he comes, not just you, but me as well.
I only would want Yahweh to forgive me......which really, is only possible because of him sending his son Jesus Christ. Otherwise, we'd all be going to hell for our sins.....just sayin, it's true.
No, read Genesis. Sin was brought into the world through one mans sin, Adam in the Garden of Eden when he ate the fruit that God forbid him to eat. You say why would God create us if he knew we would be sinning, and he hates sin......Honestly, it's hard to answer. I don't know why some people would be born if God knew they were going to hell..because they'd be better off not born. But it's really just our decisions, we choose to follow God or not. It's our choice.
@hoopz2598 it's not your choice. We cannot choose not to sin--it's our nature. The bible even says no one is without sin. A choice that cannot be taken is not a choice.
sure, we can't choose to be sinless, only Jesus Christ was sinless....but are you saying we don't have the choice to not look at pornography, or do anything else bad? Like we have no choice, lol, of course we do.
@hoopz2598 your question is irrelevant. In Exodus the bible says thinking about sex with a woman is the same as doing it. I don't know about you but I can't control thoughts like that. It's the same with other sorts of "sins." With the way "sin" is defined it's not a choice. We have no "free will" in that regard.
Yeah, I guess thinking about it is the same, because since you were thinking about it, if the opportunity came, you probably would have done it. But those thoughts are controllable....when you think about it, do you consciously entertain the thoughts or do you stop thinking about it. So yes, you can control...the only thing that there isn't a choice really for is to not be a sinner, because we all are. And Yahweh knew that, so he sent Jesus, the only sinless man CONT.
Wow, I don't think that last message got posted...Anyways, I was saying that yea, thinking about sex with a woman is a sin, because if the opportunity came, then you probably would have done it. Are you saying you can't control your thoughts? Of course you can, sure it might be hard, I mean it's hard for me sometimes, but you can consciously choose not to think about it. The only thing I think isn't a choice is being a sinner, because we all are. Yahweh knew this, which is why..
I don't care what you say....Yahweh, father of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior is real.....and there is no one else like him. There's just some stuff in the Bible that I don't understand though, I have to admit, I don't know why it says that homosexuals should be killed (if it says that, i haven't read it yet), or an adulterer should be killed. I understand that these sins would be extremely bad in God's eyes, but to be killed seems extreme.
Actually there is good evidence the claim was made up. The author goes out of his way to tell us this event fulfills a prophecy. That means this isn't some ordinary historical event being documented but specifically a supposed supernatural event with a particular critical purpose from the author's view (who wasn't around to witness it anyway). So what is more likely, that there was a prophecy fulfillment? Or that the author made it up? It's obvious to me which it is given the evidence.
Hmm I must say it is a mere matter of personal opinion. And laughable too. There is absolutely no evidence for your claim, and that is the main reason I do not agree with you.
But it wasn't too bad, I mean I can see why it seems like a fraud. It can seem that way if only you think it to be. But I just can't agree with you due to a lack of evidence.
What there is no evidence for is the highly extraordinary claims the bible makes. Given a highly unlikely supernatural claim with no evidence and a simpler natural explanation like what the video describes, the rational explanation is the simpler, natural explanation.
But I don't expect you to actually acknowledge this. You have your faith and you pick and choose your views based on what you already believe, not based on what is most reasonable.
This video doesn't explain the miracles in the bible, it explains a more simple and likely accounting for the supposed prophecies in the bible. In short it's trivial for the bible writers to simply write "fulfillments" of OT prophecies they were well aware of. And in fact there is evidence that is exactly what was done (e.g. Matthew making a mistake in reading an OT prophecy and having Jesus riding on TWO donkeys).
I think it is just opinion and nothing more than that.
Oh and there is plenty of contraversy regarding the two donkey thing, as there is plenty of evidence that there was two donkeys present and jesus rode on one. And the other Gospels never say that there was only one donkey there.
It's a fact not opinion that the gospels have no actual evidence for their claims. It is a fact not opinion that a claim of prophecy is more likely explained by someone writing to "fulfill" a prophecy after the fact than there being an actual supernatural event. My opinion is that that is what is actually going on in the gospels, but that opinion is based on the facts.
If your opinion is based on facts could you please tell me what these facts are.
And of course there is no evidence for their "claims", by this you mean miracles and supernatural things -- no more than any other book around that time.
But the Gospels do have tremendous support from plenty of evidence that many people refuse to see. More evidence than you would actually realise. In fact you would be very surprised.
I still cannot understand why this disproves this one prophecy.
And I think you should pay attention to all the other prophecies that you cannot explain.
And I noticed that you say "Look at whats most likely, not what's possible", so your saying that all the prophecies are most likely to have been fulfilled when people made up the a story that fulfilled it?
Hmm seems more like a story for atheists to explain the prophecies than anything else.
I'm not disproving the prophecy, I'm explaining a more likely and more reasonable explanation. Rational people believe things that are most likely true rather than things that are unlikely to be true and have no evidence. Many things can't be disproven but that's no reason to believe them. Should we believe in elves simply because they might exist and nobody can disprove them? Or do we recognize it's more likely they don't exist even though we can't prove it, and so we don't believe in them?
I understand what your trying to say, but there comes a point when rational people can accept that there is far more evidence in the bible and all that happens in it than elves.
@ExplosivePus I don't know how much written claims there are for elves, but even if there are more claims in the bible then there are claims about elves the point remains this is lousy evidence. There isn't any good reason to believe the bible is actually true just a there isn't any good reason to believe elves exist.
No I did not say that the claims in the bible are evidence, because yes that would be lousy if it were just that. But there is far more than you realise. This includes archaelogical evidence, philosophical evidence etc.
Archaeological evidence... the fact that peoples, cities, and such in the bible existed does not mean the supernatural stories about them actually happened. As for "philosophical evidence" or other supposed evidences, why don't you pick one of your best ones and I'll explain why it's poor.
You make it sound so minor but in fact it was because of the bible that many cities and sites have been discovered. And also the the dead see scrolls provide tremendous support for everything that happens in the old testament, prophecies included. These scrolls included the prophecies of the messiah also, nearly validating the supernatural prophecies of the bible.
And I never said this proves the bible, but supports it very well.
Yes the bible is an important historical document. But none of its supernatural claims have any evidence. If you disagree present it specifically and I'll explain why you're wrong.
We know that there is great evidence supporting the old testament and archaeological discovers have supported plenty of things in the new testament, so one could assume that this also spports it's claims -- supernatural or not.
And also the dead sea scrolls contain all of the old testament (except Esther) and contain all the same prophecies. This has been verified too and supports prophecies also.
@ExplosivePus "archaeological evidence" (whatever that supposedly is) is not evidence of the supernatural claims of the bible. That cities sometimes existed where the bible claims does not mean the events claimed about them happened. Besides, if you actually read a modern book on bible archaeology you'll discover that these days they don't think archaeology supports things like the exodus! So I repeat, get specific about some supposed evidence if you want a real reply.
Mind you there is no evidence for your explanation about this miracle.
Okay so you obviously know that there are miracles in the bible that you can't explain. (other than "hey there's no proof!!!) correct?
Many miracles have been pretty much proven. For example one where it is prophecised in the old testament and is confirmed by history to have been fulfilled. And you and I both know that there is no
"Atheistic" explanation for many of them. So if you use your common sense......
It's not my job to disprove unlikely claims that have never been supported in the first place. All I have to do is point out there are simpler more likely explanations, and that's what this video does.
If you still don't understand burden of proof consider how ridiculous it would be to have to disprove every claim someone might make rather than expecting them to prove it. I could claim I can fly and say you have to believe it if you can't disprove it. Get it?
No no no why twist my words I never said anything like "you have to believe it if you cant disprove it".
I said that there are many, many prophecies that cannot be explained with your "logic". And even this one cannot be proved, and until you can confirm this claim I won't believe you!! I mean you atheists hold the same point of view there -- I won't believe you until you can prove it.
@ExplosivePus as I've repeated over and over, I don't have to disprove what has never been proven. I've given a more likely explanation than the supernatural explanation. If you think there remain prophecies that can only be explained by the supernatural why don't you list one as an example and we'll examine it.
And Vice versa, seeing as your opinion of a more likely explanation has no proof either.
Okay I have just one prophecy here, and I have many more if you want me to share them with you.
In Isaiah it prophecised the destruction of Assyria and Nineveh. And that Assyria would (before it's destruction) destroy the ten northern tribes of Israel, but Jerusalem would be spared, even though the Assyrians were intending to destroy it. And a remnant of the ten northen tribes would return.
@ExplosivePus Sounds like you should become Jewish then.
In a quick search I can't even find the verses you're referring to. Please list specific verses or better yet reference a NT prophecy as I'm much more familiar with the NT than OT.
The prophecy is in Isaiah, and I am not making something up. And please don't give me the "maybe it was written after the fact", its weak and ridculous.
Just admit it, there are prophecies in the bible that are unexplainable to any atheist!!
Merry Christmas to you by the way. I'll be going away for 2 weeks so don't expect a reply for a while. :)
You think that poor excuse can acount for all the amazing prophecies in the bible? Can you use that to explain the prophecy where the bible prophecises the name of the man who restores the jews? No, of course not. You have no answer for it, all you people do is question the authenticity of it.
Would that name be "Immanuel?" If it is, Yeshua was never referred to by that name first of all. The fact that their name translates to something similiar is just that a similarity. None of the the gospels, epistles, etc. refer to him as such. Furthermore, all of the "prophecies" concerning what the messiah is supposed to do are yet to be fulfilled. Xians openly admit to this failure but say "Oh, he's gonna get it done in Round #2." Start holding your breath and wait till he "comes again"
No the name would be Cyrus. And we can prove it through the dead sea scrolls that it was in fact written down (the prophecy of a man named Cyrus) hundreds of years before a man named CYrus did the things it specified.
Please stop making up excuses for the incredible things in the bible. There are many more prophecies like this in the bible, and you and I both know that these prophecies are incredible.
...and I suppose this is documented somewere other than a "fundy" website it a reputable journal? If you'll recall the "ark" has been found at least a half dozen times, in different locations.
We both know that you cannot possibly explain this prophecy. And no, the ark has never been located. What your reading from is probably possible ark locations, or bits of wood found.
I would suggest you read, "The Bible Unearthed" by Silberman and Finkelstein. Two Jews who are able, to a decent degree, separate their beliefs from where the archeological evidence leads. And the evidence I want you to cite is where you found a dated manuscript containing the prophecy in regards to Cyrus verified to have been written 100 years BEFORE the event and any other prophecy verified by unbias sources dated prior to political realities pointing to the event in question would be great.
Well the prophecy is in Isaiah and Isaiah can be found in the dead sea scrolls which were written from 250 BC to around 65 AD. They contain the entire Old testament except from Esther, and also the prophecy of Cyrus. Using various tests we can see that the prophecy was written before the event.
Wow, lets take the earliest date. Cyrus died in 530 BC so even the earliest date concerning the dead sea scrolls put them nearly 200 years after the fact. Nice try, try again this one's a L-O-S-E-R! Not a prophecy if it's written after the fact oh and by the way, what are these "certain tests?" Is that all the apologetics website had to say or did they explain the tests?
Sorry, forget about that one. But you must remember that The Dead Sea Scrolls were not the original copies. So it's not as if they only first wrote about Cyrus hundreds of years after it was supposed to happen.
But we both know that you cannot explain this prophecy, and that is the reason you question the sources. Besides the are far more prophecies, all of them amazing. And there is also plenty of evidence of God that you cannot debunk.
Yeah, forget about that one, but you can't explain it....umm, yeah...I just did. It was written after the fact. To claim that the dead sea scrolls weren't original doesn't solve your problem it adds to it because it completely invalidates your claim because unless you can provide an original that dates prior to the "prophecy" there is nothng for me to disprove. And if you can name me the proof of god that I cannot debunk I'd love to hear it so far you've not even attempted that.
No it wasn't written after the fact. The Dead Sea Scrolls were not the originals, and mind you it is pretty much impossible for scrolls to survive as long as from the time of Cyrus to today.
So, yes, I have debunked your theory on the prophecy of Cyrus
Let's see...Cyrus DIES in 530 BC, the closest the dead sea scrolls is, according to you, 250 BC...what is it you're not understanding. You cannot possibly be this stupid. The bigger the number when it says BC, the longer ago it was. Do you not understand this? You've debunked nothing except the fact I was talking w/someone w/more than 2 brain cells to rub together.
No it doesn't prove it as we SEE what we want to see. I.e we associate things around us to our strongest beliefs.
myfacevids 2 weeks ago
Alexander the Great when shown about the writings of Daniel even concluded that he was the one written in the prophetic books. There are lots of prophesies regarding the coming of Jesus and most are fulfilled in His first coming and there others that are expected to be fulfilled when He comes back.
peyupsgurl 2 weeks ago
Absence of concurrent historical record means that the event didn't really occur. Take for example the existence of Nebuchadnezzar or the Hittites were doubted before because they said there are no archaeological evidence and so they said the Bible must be wrong but then discoveries were made and thousands of artifact were unearthed proving the Bible to be correct. The rise of Medes and Persian, Alexander the Great and the division of his entire to 4 parts were predicted in the book of Daniel.
peyupsgurl 2 weeks ago
@peyupsgurl the simpler explanation remains that the (unknown!) writers of the gospels were merely writing stories to "fulfill prophecy." If you want to believe the supernatural explanation go right ahead. I won't be joining you as it's highly unlikely.
MystryBox 2 weeks ago
I wonder why theists can do such mental gymnastics in defense of their 'opium', but can't seem to understand or even see the truth in the evidence for naturalism.
All one should need to do is find a cut for a road and closely study the layered deposits.
Young Earth changed by the Flood? What about similar on Mars? Did God kill all the Martians because there was no Noah or trees etc to save them?
psycotria 1 month ago
This guy believes mystery itself. Check out; Homeopathy, Cure or con, marketplace CBC, on youtube. At 8:10 min. the Homeopathic manager says, 'it's somewhat of a mystery' Homeopathy has 6,000 medications in Canada, completly absurd, unfounded science... but still some people believe it.
champlain5 4 months ago
I really wish i could take the time to disprove your attempts at disproving the LORDS word. But like i said im only 17 years old and ive got other things to deal with. Maybe you should try disproving the bible code....Oh and why is it when every athiest has a near death experience they immediatly become a christian afterwards? Im sorry but im done with this. Im too young for this subject, and Im afraid that I may harden your heart even more...
Ridikai 5 months ago
@Ridikai the bible codes have already been disproven--there's nothing for me to do. They found similar codes in Moby Dick... and really in any book of sufficient length.
And you're wrong if you think all atheists become christian with near death experiences. You're fed a bunch of lies and you believe them. It's funny actually.
MystryBox 5 months ago
Alright, I wasnt talking about prophecies that Jesus fullfilled but whatever. I find it strange that athiests like you have such a big strive to disprove one religion. Out in the world I tend to converse with people about relegions and beleifs. Buhdism, whatever other ones that are out there.(continued at next post.)
Ridikai 5 months ago
@Ridikai I have a "big strive" to disprove Christianity because it's the religion I was raised in and the religion of my family and most people I know. It's what I know. It's not Christianity, it's me. If I was raised muslim I'd be talking about that religion. I mean do I really have to explain something that simple?
MystryBox 5 months ago
They are interested to here and frankly underneath it all dont give a care about it. Whenever I mention Jesus Christ. They immediatly put a wall up like they have some sort of ...enmity(emnity?) towards the truth.
Ridikai 5 months ago
@Ridikai the problem with people that mention Jesus isn't Jesus. it's the people who mention Jesus--they are nutters most the time.
MystryBox 5 months ago
@MystryBox NO you just twisted what I said, a LOT of athiests that werent even raised as christians have the same motivation as you do. I wasnt zoning in on you. And again you twisted what I said...or maybe you just didnt understand what I mean with your athiest mentality. "the problem with people that mention Jesus isn't Jesus its the people who mention Jesus--" Your right it isnt Jesus. Its the person who is putting the wall up.
Ridikai 5 months ago
@Ridikai the reality is you don't know the first thing about Jesus. You think you do, but you don't. You know a bunch of bull that your church has taught you, that's all.
MystryBox 5 months ago
How can athiests even sleep at night? Scientists with their high tech technology cant find even find a planet as perfect as ours...well its not so perfect any more.....Water...Fire....earth....air....What we are and what we have cant happen out of some random big bang or stupid evolution. Its impossible. There has to be a creator holding everything steady. Evolution you might say? Then why do monkeys and apes still exist in their original form? how come they arent retarted little humans?
Ridikai 5 months ago
@Ridikai do yourself a favor and don't try to talk about evolution. If you really want to know the answer to your question google "Claim CC150"
MystryBox 5 months ago
THey may be going extinct. But thats our fault. alright NOW IM DONE. Have fun making videos trying to disprove something that was forced down your throat as a child. That will definately get you somewhere in life.
Ridikai 5 months ago
@Ridikai believe whatever you want. just don't fool yourself that it makes sense. I mean you know in church a lot of the stories even you have a difficult time accepting. And you don't know the half of it yet being so young.
MystryBox 5 months ago
Ok i thought about it . what good would god do me ? he is formless but yet i never seen him i may have manifested him through fear in my mind but if god is so powerful we could never exist in his presence . when you work hard live large and have experience boredom and cynical retardism what sense does it make to prove we love god ? im not at war with god because god doesnt exist .
SonsOfLiberity 7 months ago
@SonsOfLiberity "cynical retardism" is the phrase of the week.
MystryBox 7 months ago
@MystryBox what then is the phrase for next week ?
SonsOfLiberity 6 months ago
Not to mention the fact that Herod died 6 years before jesus' supposed birth.
Nonefrog 7 months ago
@Nonefrog that's a whole other subject. Best to hit people with just one hammer at a time, heh.
MystryBox 7 months ago
something has happened to you in the past that caused you to deny god probably something pretty bad. you are almost afraid that he exists but you really believe what you believe. you seem to look toward science and astrophysics to replace the role of god in your life but it doesn't quite fit. you want more than science has to provide because it always has those unfortunate boring spreads of mathmatical facts, all pointing to randomness. do you know the true nature of god? the power? the love?
Rustystud 8 months ago
@Rustystud "something has happened to you in the past that caused you to deny god..."
You are correct. I grew up. You should try it sometime.
MystryBox 8 months ago 8
1
How about explaining this prophesy made by Zechariah over 500 years before Jesus was born.
Zechariah 11:13 And the LORD said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.
Break it up into 2 parts. : “Throw it to the potter”—the handsome price at which they priced me!
Phophecy of both Judas`s betrayal of Jesus and confirmation a price was set
FeignofCordor 9 months ago
@FeignofCordor sure, no problem to explain that prophecy. The guy who wrote the book of the new testament was familiar with the prophecy and wrote a story to "fulfill it". That happens all over the New Testament--that is exactly the sort of prophecy the video is explaining.
Now how about you explain the discrepancy between the claims of how Judas died without making up some new combined story no bible writer wrote. See In Matthew 27:5 vs Acts 1:18.
MystryBox 9 months ago
2
The second part of the verse:
So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.
Here you have fulfilment of both the exact price for the betrayal of Jesus of 30 pieces of Silver the prophecy also tells of the silver being thrown to the floor in the Temple and last of all like in the first part of the verse you have the potter in which the priests buy the Potters field the place where Judas hung himself.
One of the many more specific prophecies
FeignofCordor 9 months ago
Maybe it was made up but do consider that he wrote it within 50 years of the event. Considering that the church was under persecution it would make since for Matthew to get every detail write as it would make since for me to try to get every detail write in an argument for theism
Bycoon 9 months ago
@Bycoon. Um,no. Who ever wrote "Matthew" didn't write it until decades after Jesus death. He wasn't even alive at the time of the supposed slaughter.
MystryBox 9 months ago
@MystryBox Would you say the same for Mark, Luke and John? The New Testament? The whole Bible?
Bycoon 9 months ago
@Bycoon the fact is nobody knows for sure who wrote "Mark" "Luke" "John" and the other gospels. The early church added the names later. What we do know is they were written decades after Jesus' supposed death, borrow verbatim from each other (as well as from earlier legends) and they are full of stories written specifically to fulfill OT prophecy just like this video describes. I don't know about you but that's hardly the sort of thing I would center my life around.
MystryBox 9 months ago
@MystryBox I could agree with a few things. Yes, the gospels were anonymous but, the uniform testimony of the early church is that Matthew also called Levi the tax collector, wrote Matthew. John Mark wrote Mark. And Luke wrote the gospel of Luke and the acts of the apostles. There were no known competitors and these were written by some unlikely characters. I would say yes they did write it to show Jesus was the Messiah but why? They were being killed for it, I doubt they would die for a lie.
Bycoon 9 months ago
@Bycoon obviously the early church would think that but the reality is they're guessing. As for martyrs, every religion has them. People will die for what they believe in regardless if it is true. Even if we make the large assumption that certain people wrote the gospels and that the stories told about their deaths were true (both merely tradition and not settled history), all that shows is that someone believed.... not that what they believed was actually true.
MystryBox 9 months ago
@MystryBox Lol you forget that the disciples claimed that they saw Jesus after He died and 500 others. When Peter was cruxified around 68 A.D. He saw his wife hanging across from him. You know just saying but when you see your wife dieing for something you know is a lie and the cause is invain I think thats when I would tap out and say sorry guys this is a lie. Yet no one did, under intense persecution. Also the early church had a reason to believe it was written by matthew mark luke and john
Bycoon 9 months ago
@Bycoon you forget these are anonymous claims in a document that includes obvious fraud like what this video describes. We don't have the word of 500 witnesses, we have the word of an anonymous writer making claims decades after the supposed events took place. If a writing surfaced today telling of miracles around the death of Elvis along with 500 witnesses and martyr deaths do you believe it simply because someone wrote it? There is no outside evidence for these writings!
MystryBox 9 months ago
@MystryBox No I really don't think you "proved" anything. You more of just added doubt, prove? Not really. But if Jesus is the Messiah what should prove it? His life fulfilled the prophecies. If He resurrected what to things do we need? That He died and that people saw Him afterwards. If He is God what proof do we need? That He did stuff only God could do. I believe Jesus proved every single point. If your looking for writing outside of the church there is plenty!
Bycoon 9 months ago
@Bycoon "plenty" of documentation outside the bible of Jesus? Name one written at the time of Jesus was alive and doing his supposed miracles that documents him. Just ONE. No credit for Josephus as that's considered a later Christian interpolation. When you fail to find even one you'll have to rephrase "plenty" to "none."
MystryBox 9 months ago
@MystryBox Lol you expect to find one during the time Jesus did His ministry? Considering the Christian church started after Jesus died I would find it hard to believe there was ANY written during the lifetime of Jesus
Bycoon 9 months ago
@Bycoon historians lived at the time of Jesus... some even in the very towns he supposedly did his miracles (e.g. Philo). And yet none mention Jesus. But yes once a church started up then they were really good at documenting all the supposed miracles that supposedly happened decades to centuries earlier... and strangely some of the miracles were stolen directly from preexisting legends, for example Peter walking on water (and sinking when he lost faith) is an earlier Buddhist legend.
MystryBox 9 months ago
@MystryBox Don't you think it makes since that once the church started up that writings of Jesus would start spreading? The church believed that Jesus is the messiah and they wanted that message to be spread. Like the holocaust muesam, it was formed by Jewish Scholars, why? Because they wanted the holocaust remembered so it does not happen again. Wouldn't the christian church want the same? An accurate recording of Christ to show to everyone who the real Messiah is
Bycoon 9 months ago
@Bycoon even if the Jesus stories were well documented (which they're not) they still wouldn't be rational to believe because there are simpler, more likely explanations. See my video "Is the Resurrection Believable?" for more on that.
MystryBox 9 months ago
@MystryBox Yes of course Jesus acts were not miracles. He only multiplied matter, walked on water, and raised the dead. Totally likely and yes I will look at ur Resurrection video lol
Bycoon 9 months ago
@Bycoon as I've already said over and over, you know nothing of what Jesus did or didn't do except via writings from unknown authors who were writing much later and with an obvious agenda. If you weren't so biased you'd easily be agreeing on how poor the evidence is. You're free to believe how you wish but there is nothing there for informed and intelligent people who aren't already believers determined to believe no matter what.
MystryBox 9 months ago
@MystryBox Lol you know writings about someone around 30 ad would be the most reliable source to know wat someone did or didn't do specifically. Who the authors were is not as important as wat they wrote. Ive already explained its much more reasonable to believe that wat they wrote was recorded not made up. And after reading case for Christ I believe that there is good evidence that support a reason for believing in Christ.
Bycoon 9 months ago
@Bycoon who the gospels authors were is unimportant? Really? And I agree that what they wrote would be important... and unfortunately what they wrote is fraud (one example given in this video), legends stolen from previous religions, conflicting accounts of supposed miracles (the conflicts exposing the falsity), etc. etc.
MystryBox 9 months ago
@MystryBox You only reported that the slaughter in Bethleham was not recorded by historians? that doesn't prove it didn't happen it just proves that there could of been plenty of stuff that Hereod did that was not recorded. Also all the teachings and miracles were all eyewitnessed by the people of Israel, they were probaly still alive or told their children and could easily refuted if it wasn't true meaning the writers probaly scrutinized to get the details right not make something up
Bycoon 9 months ago
@Bycoon the video gives just one example of gospels writers doing that sort of thing. Over and over they mention little stories and reference OT verses to say Jesus fulfilled this and that. And given the options... Jesus being a god and rising from the dead and doing all those other miracles despite no documentation from anyone at the time... or some unknowns simply writing stories decades later claiming those things in order to make a Messiah.... it's obvious which is more likely.
MystryBox 9 months ago
@MystryBox probaly because they had a relationship with them and if anyone would know who wrote the bible it would be the church. But also consider I really don't think they care who wrote it as long as it was true. We can confirm that the gospels and the rest of the new testament was written atleast 50 years after Christ death so the teachings that Jesus said wouldn't only be known by the disciples but it would be common knowledge by everyone. So I would assume that the gospels were written
Bycoon 9 months ago
@MystryBox accurately. Because if Matthew really did believe that Jesus was the Messiah he wouldn't make up stories to prove that Jesus was the Messiah by prophecies but he would use stories that were common knowledge to show that Jesus was the Messiah. I would say that would be the same for all the gospels. Like look how the gospel of Matthew is written. Its not written jsut to show that Jesus is the Messiah but it is written for christians to show the jews of who Jesus was.
Bycoon 9 months ago
@Bycoon actually it's likely because whoever wrote "Matthew" believed Jesus was the Messiah that he made up the stories about Jesus fulfilling various prophecies. Because if he was the Messiah he must have fulfilled them right?
MystryBox 9 months ago
@MystryBox I think its more likely the other way around. Look at the way Jesus did His ministry, He pretty much proved He was the Messiah before anyone believed He was the messiah. Infact it was like the chapter 16 in Matthew till someone realized He was the Messiah. Also look at the gospel of John, John lists signs showing that Jesus is the Messiah. So it would make more since that the writer of Matthew believed Jesus was the Messiah based on Jesus life and records them in Matthew.
Bycoon 9 months ago
@Bycoon the only things we know about Jesus and his supposed ministry are writings by unknown authors who were writing decades after the supposed events and clearly making things up to paint Jesus as the messiah. There is not a single source documenting Jesus' ministry from the time he lived, period. Not one. Historians of the time are entirely silent on his existence let alone his ministry. This is probably news to you but it's true and you can confirm it yourself.
MystryBox 9 months ago
@Bycoon would you say the same for Mark, Luke, and John? The whole New testament? The entire Bible?
Bycoon 9 months ago
or it was just translated wrong...just sayin...
halo5532 10 months ago
@halo5532 sure. of course the facts of translations errors, and such underline how silly the whole idea of a written "word of god" is. If a god did exist and had something for us to know, he'd do better of communicating it than what we observe our religions do.
MystryBox 10 months ago
@MystryBox
How would he do better? He came to Earth and was witnessed doing miracles and some of the witnesses (Apostles)authored books telling of these miracles and his words. Could you get a better way than first hand witness accounts?
FeignofCordor 9 months ago
@FeignofCordor they're not first hand accounts to me. They're anonymous writings that make highly unlikely claims that are not likely true. Does your idea of a first hand account always involve writings that nobody even knows who wrote them?
MystryBox 9 months ago
2
So what I read from this is the dates correspond and they agree that Mark and Luke possibly authored their Gospels but even were it says Author unknown because evidence is less strong such as with Matt and John you don`t see them find that it wasn`t authored by Matt and John just that the evidence wasn`t sufficient enough for them. So it boils down top whether you choose to believe or not.
FeignofCordor 9 months ago
@FeignofCordor no, it boils down to what is worthy of belief and why it is worthy of belief. Conflicting, anonymous writings making unlikely claims that fly in the face of observed reality and that copy preexisting legend, and also write stories specifically to "fulfill" known OT prophecy (i.e. FRAUD)... that is not worthy of your time let alone your belief.
MystryBox 9 months ago
@MystryBox
1
Higher Criticism is a branch of literary analysis that investigates the origins of a text. As applied in biblical studies it investigates the books of the Bible and compares them to other texts written at the same time, before, or recently after the text in question. In Classical studies. Their findings are: (Mark) anonymous, perhaps Mark,mid to late 1st century.(Matt) An unknown author late 1st century(Luke)Luke or an unknown author late 1st cent (John) An unknown author.
FeignofCordor 9 months ago
fyi, its prophesy, not prophecy.
thegreatapologist 1 year ago
@thegreatapologist not in the USA.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@MystryBox I am in the US.
But after looking at the grammar again, I've determined that you're right. GAAH! FAIL ON MY PART!
thegreatapologist 1 year ago
@thegreatapologist we won't hold it against you.
MystryBox 1 year ago
MystryBox you sir are awesome i dont enen know why people try and argue with you, you are getting subscribed XD
sleekbleek16 1 year ago
@sleekbleek16 thanks for the sub. And people argue with me because they think they're right. Hopefully after some discussion with me they at least consider the possibility that maybe ancient stories about magic apples and talking snakes might not have much basis in reality. Or at least we can hope.
MystryBox 1 year ago
(Marcrobius, Saturnalia 2:4:11)
When [Augustus] heard that Herod king of the Jews had ordered all the boys in Syria under the age fo two to be put to death and that the king’s son was among those killed, he said "I’d rather be Herod’s pig than Herod’s son".
You were saying?
BalladoftheWindfish 1 year ago
@BalladoftheWindfish here is some education for you. In the future please research a bit before you post.
The Saturnalia is the first non-Christian reference to the supposed massacre. It was written some 400 YEARS after the supposed event and merely repeats the legend already written down in the bible stories. Historians living at the time of the supposed incident oddly don't mention it at all. Why is that do you suppose?
MystryBox 1 year ago
@MystryBox It could have been for any of a number reasons, but I don't have to tell you that the argument from silence is one of the weakest of arguments. Second, if you're not a historian, I would refrain from conjecture.
BalladoftheWindfish 1 year ago
@BalladoftheWindfish You come on here posting ignorant comments showing that you don't know anything about the subject and now you lecture me on weak arguments? Are you for real? The one conjecturing here is you. You hold a position that has no evidence. If you can't admit the facts at least stop talking and making yourself look sillier.
MystryBox 1 year ago
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Because when you ask your own mind. And not what created EVERYTHING around you. You go by your own human understanding. And what your mind thinks for the reason Earth is here and you are here. Don't you see? Don't any of you see? You don't know why your here. It was MEANT for MAN to not know why they are here. So stop trying to come up with ideas in your own head for that reason. It's beyond your understanding obviously. Read what Jesus say's, and ask. Then he will make it all come true.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
Because when you ask your own mind. And not what created EVERYTHING around you. You go by your own human understanding. And what your mind thinks for the reason Earth is here and you are here. Don't you see? Don't any of you see? You don't know why your here. It was MEANT for MAN to not know why they are here. So stop trying to come up with ideas in your own head for that reason. It's beyond your understanding obviously. Read what Jesus say's, and ask. Then he will make it all come true.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
The man writing about the helicopters was put INTO the future. He had no other way to explain it than giant locusts.
I had a dream once. I woke up, and this was real. I was completely aware of everything around me. It wasn't a dream that jumps around when ur sleeping I actually woke up.
Anyways, I woke up and something evil was standing over me. It said "You're not worthy, your are weak, and god will have nothing to do with you" Now I didnt have this dream till i got born again. So ^continured
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe Evil won't work on people who are already lead off track. It saw that I was born again and it attacked me (Spiritually).
Just remember, mystery. You wlll be forever blind to Christ. You will never know him. EVER. You can say anything you wan't about him but it doesn't prove or disprove anything. You know why?
Because your not born again. If you don't ask he won't show you. And you will be forever blind. The only way to know if this is true is to ASK. It says several times. So ask
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe nutjob.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@MystryBox LoL w/e. You lie when you say you are willing and I give you more evidence than anyone probably ever would on youtube. Not because I want to prove to myself as you just said but to prove to you. Keep living in your mysterybox.
Peace
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe dude you're talking about helicopters in Revelation. You don't know what you're talking about.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe "The man writing about the helicopters was put INTO the future. He had no other way to explain it than giant locusts"
Or maybe it was giant locusts. Locusts were one of the plagues in Egypt. Sounds more like a bad mushroom trip to me. With a name like Kronik 4 Life, I'm sure you know all about hallucinations.
justintempler 1 year ago
SOOO. Since man has been around for 6000 years now. in a span of 80ish years. man has gotten so intelligent. Then you have the birth of SCIENCE. Jesus spoke that in the end times there will be things to deceive even the ELECT. (Intelligent believers) The anti christ will come to say Jesus is not the way , i"m the one and would need things like this to succeed. T.V, Radio, Science, ECT. Kthxbai. Jesus Saves!
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe You have more of this silly childish nonsense ?
lizazoon 1 year ago
Look at the book of revelation. It speaks of Helocopters, Atom bombs going off, and gods wrath. But it speaks of this through a person (John) From way in the past. And he is seeing the future, end times, (NOW). You know it's now because in 50 years we would advance way past the need of helicopters and even more powerful weapons. Also we have gotten so advanced in the past 80ish years. We can fly. And we have to t.v and radio for the anti christ to show himself to the hole world.
Kr0n1k4Lyfe 1 year ago
@Kr0n1k4Lyfe Revelation does not speak of helicopters or atom bombs. You're reading into it the issues of the day, the same as people have been doing since it was written. Every generation for the last 2000 years reads it and thinks it applies to them. That's because it's just a bunch of metaphorical junk... it can be thought to apply to anything. Wake up.
MystryBox 1 year ago
I was a christian until I actually began to look at the actual history and origin of the bible. All stories in the new testament were written after the death of Jesus. Therefore like you said it would be very easy to "fake" a prophecy. Even parts of genesis were plagiarized from a Sumeria religion. The sumerians had a story that was nearly identical to the story of Adam and eve.
TWAT109 1 year ago
@TWAT109 Very true, thanks for the post.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@TWAT109 Very true, thanks for the post.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@TWAT109 Very true, thanks for the post.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@TWAT109 Very true, thanks for the post.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@TWAT109 Very true, thanks for the comment.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@TWAT109 Very true, thanks for the comment.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@TWT109 Very true, thanks for the comment.
MystryBox 1 year ago
The bottom line is this atheists. It's like what the Forerunner777 says......TRUTH is TRUTH whether you LIKE it or NOT.
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@hoopz2598 you wouldn't recognize truth if it bit you on the butt.
MystryBox 1 year ago
hoopz2598, u are a fag. "First link on Google" okay Mr. Inspector Gadget. U win.
silentg1211 1 year ago
i spy a spam can behind you
GhostOfRockyHorror 1 year ago
Your voice rattles, it's annoying. I stopped listening. Bible prophecies are subjective anyway.
hdregmore 1 year ago
he sent his only begotten son Jesus Christ, or God in the flesh to die for us so that we might be saved if we CHOOSE to be. I can tell ya, I'm not looking forward to judgment necessarily. I've done stuff, that when God judges me, I'll feel ashamed, and really, I just don't want to think about it. But I am excited to go to heaven because Jesus died for those sins. =)
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@hoopz2598 sure. God has himself killed by us so he can forgive us for how he creates us. Why would any sane person believe such absurdity?
And what is the deal with your god that wants things to be murdered all the time?
MystryBox 1 year ago
@MystryBox
I've wondered the same thing why he would create us knowing we would sin. But I think it's just that he loves us so much he wants us to be with him forever in heaven, regardless of the fact that he knew we'd sin...because we can still be in heaven thanks to Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.......Idk man, there are some things that I don't understand obviously. Some things only Yahweh understands.
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@hoopz2598 no theist ever admits when I'm correct. However once a theist says "only god knows" or "god's ways are not our ways" or similar, that is as close to an admission as I'm going to get.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@MystryBox
lol because I can't agree with you on 98%of this topic, you're an atheist and I'm a Christian. Anyways, there's nothing to say, it's up to you to do what you want to do.......but a couple prophecies I'd like to mention is that when Jesus comes back the Mount of Olives is supposed to split from east to west, guess what? Geologists discovered a fault line going from EAST TO WEST. Also, God said he'd bring back his ppl (Jews) to Israel. You know how many Jews have gone to Israel now?
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@MystryBox
If you don't think that this prophecy is shocking, or proof that the Bible and Word of God is real, then I don't know what to say. Search "10 bible prophecies fulfilled recently" on google and click the first link. You can look at all the prophecies fulfilled, but look at the one at the very bottom of the page. Now you tell me how in the world that's not God's word to be able to predict that 2,000 years ago or somethin.
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@hoopz2598 first 5 prophesies in turn:
1- Israel has yet to prevail over its enemies (still plenty of enemies of Israel)
2 - Ruins of Israel not rebuilt (the Temple not rebuilt for one!)
3 - Israel is prosperous (but the prophesy is not very specific here)
4) - Fewer cyprus and fir trees than 650BC, not more. ...and not God's work, people's work.
5) Israel's fruit doesn't fill the world (it's filled with rock mostly)
Need I go on?
drfoxcourt 1 year ago
On your first point....that confirms prophecy. Read Zechariah 12. It says that God will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people....and that all the people of the earth will be gathered together against it. And like you said, Jerusalem, part of Israel, still has plenty of enemies. For your second point, you can just look up videos or google the rebuilding of the temple. The plans are already made, and they have red heifers already prepared to rebuild the temple. One problem is that..
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@drfoxcourt
the location of the rebuilding is right where the dome of the rock is. So I don't know how they're going to get it rebuilt. But it WILL happen. It's just a matter of time. And if you live to see that take place, then you'd be a fool to still deny the truth of God's word. Also, I don't know where you got that fact about fewer trees, but from what I've just found on Wikipedia, I KNOW, not the most reliable source, but it says that Israel is a major exporter of fresh produce. But..
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@drfoxcourt
But even if there is rocky areas mostly, the vegetation is still growing. And like I said, from what I read, Israel is a major exporter of fresh produce aka fruit. Now please..go on.
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@hoopz2598 This hardly constitutes prophesy fulfilled. The world ain't filled with fruit, the temple ain't rebuilt, there are fewer trees, Israel not victorious over enemies.
Even if true, what does this tell us?
The Oracle at Delphi was an equally good predictor of the future. That doesn't tell us the Olympian gods are real, that Hercules was the son of Zeus, that Herc performed miracles, or that Hades awaits us after death.
drfoxcourt 1 year ago
@drfoxcourt
The Oracle at Delphi.......don't know much about her. But what's true is that if the God of Abraham gives someone a vision or dream, it will come to pass 100% of the time. I doubt the Oracle at Delphi was 100% correct with all her predictions. And what has she predicted to happen in our time? I'm guessing nothing. The Bible has prophecies that are being, and will be fulfilled in OUR time, and that were written like almost 2,000 years ago.Really theres nothing to say.Truth is truth
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@hoopz2598 Vague prophesy, whether by the Oracle or the Bible, is without value. Without precise times, the prophesies are like prayer (apparently yes/ not yet/no). Without the ability to distinguish between "not yet" and "no", the best we can say is the Bible and the Oracle are decent wishful guesses and subject to interpretation.
But let's look at consistently precise prediction, aka Science. Science is not subject to interpretation and contradicts the Bible in several places.
drfoxcourt 1 year ago
@MystryBox its to satisfy his pagan bloodlust just like zeus and jupiter they preffered bull blood
espyd21c 1 year ago
@hoopz2598 yeah well all the crazy church ppl say god already planned out lives so we have no free will... in a way we are all brainwashed puppets. why dont we do watever we wanna do cuz THERE IS NO GOD.. THE BIBLE IS JUST STORIES DONT LISTEN TO IT DONT E BRAINWASHED LIKE PEOPLE I KNOW BUT I SAW THROUGH ITS LIES AND IM LIVIN HOW I WANT
mythicman4545 1 year ago
or God in the flesh, to die for us so we might be saved if we CHOOSE to be.
hoopz2598 1 year ago
There's a good video of an atheist-turned Christian. Search Medical Doctor has NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE. Maybe it will give you some insight. =)
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@hoopz2598 I saw that video. All it was is a scared man facing death who turns to the religion of his culture and then happened to get better. People facing death will do irrational things. And people sometimes get better and sometimes don't--it doesn't matter what their faith is.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@MystryBox
then search from atheist to Christian and watch the first video. This guy thought like you think right now.
hoopz2598 1 year ago
Then again, you're comparing it to Yahweh, who is perfect, so just think of how filthy we are for all of our sins....Anyways, whether you believe in the true scripture or not, Jesus is returning soon, and I just hope that you're ready when he comes, not just you, but me as well.
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@hoopz2598 yes you're horribly filthy with all your sinning you pathetic wretch. Send me some money and maybe I'll forgive you for being so filthy.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@MystryBox
I only would want Yahweh to forgive me......which really, is only possible because of him sending his son Jesus Christ. Otherwise, we'd all be going to hell for our sins.....just sayin, it's true.
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@hoopz2598 why would you need forgiveness for being as you were created? Does your god make you in a way he hates?
MystryBox 1 year ago
No, read Genesis. Sin was brought into the world through one mans sin, Adam in the Garden of Eden when he ate the fruit that God forbid him to eat. You say why would God create us if he knew we would be sinning, and he hates sin......Honestly, it's hard to answer. I don't know why some people would be born if God knew they were going to hell..because they'd be better off not born. But it's really just our decisions, we choose to follow God or not. It's our choice.
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@hoopz2598 it's not your choice. We cannot choose not to sin--it's our nature. The bible even says no one is without sin. A choice that cannot be taken is not a choice.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@MystryBox
sure, we can't choose to be sinless, only Jesus Christ was sinless....but are you saying we don't have the choice to not look at pornography, or do anything else bad? Like we have no choice, lol, of course we do.
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@hoopz2598 your question is irrelevant. In Exodus the bible says thinking about sex with a woman is the same as doing it. I don't know about you but I can't control thoughts like that. It's the same with other sorts of "sins." With the way "sin" is defined it's not a choice. We have no "free will" in that regard.
MystryBox 1 year ago
@MystryBox
Yeah, I guess thinking about it is the same, because since you were thinking about it, if the opportunity came, you probably would have done it. But those thoughts are controllable....when you think about it, do you consciously entertain the thoughts or do you stop thinking about it. So yes, you can control...the only thing that there isn't a choice really for is to not be a sinner, because we all are. And Yahweh knew that, so he sent Jesus, the only sinless man CONT.
hoopz2598 1 year ago
@MystryBox
Wow, I don't think that last message got posted...Anyways, I was saying that yea, thinking about sex with a woman is a sin, because if the opportunity came, then you probably would have done it. Are you saying you can't control your thoughts? Of course you can, sure it might be hard, I mean it's hard for me sometimes, but you can consciously choose not to think about it. The only thing I think isn't a choice is being a sinner, because we all are. Yahweh knew this, which is why..
hoopz2598 1 year ago
I don't care what you say....Yahweh, father of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior is real.....and there is no one else like him. There's just some stuff in the Bible that I don't understand though, I have to admit, I don't know why it says that homosexuals should be killed (if it says that, i haven't read it yet), or an adulterer should be killed. I understand that these sins would be extremely bad in God's eyes, but to be killed seems extreme.
hoopz2598 1 year ago
I don't think any prophecies prove Christianity to be true. No prophecy of any religion proves itself to be true.
mynameisjonas45 2 years ago
Well this man says that there's no evidence for this act of Herard, and he claims it to be a fraud because of the lack of evidence.
But there is no evidence for his claim that it was made up either, so this video is very hypocritical in my opinion.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
Actually there is good evidence the claim was made up. The author goes out of his way to tell us this event fulfills a prophecy. That means this isn't some ordinary historical event being documented but specifically a supposed supernatural event with a particular critical purpose from the author's view (who wasn't around to witness it anyway). So what is more likely, that there was a prophecy fulfillment? Or that the author made it up? It's obvious to me which it is given the evidence.
MystryBox 2 years ago
Hmm I must say it is a mere matter of personal opinion. And laughable too. There is absolutely no evidence for your claim, and that is the main reason I do not agree with you.
But it wasn't too bad, I mean I can see why it seems like a fraud. It can seem that way if only you think it to be. But I just can't agree with you due to a lack of evidence.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
What there is no evidence for is the highly extraordinary claims the bible makes. Given a highly unlikely supernatural claim with no evidence and a simpler natural explanation like what the video describes, the rational explanation is the simpler, natural explanation.
But I don't expect you to actually acknowledge this. You have your faith and you pick and choose your views based on what you already believe, not based on what is most reasonable.
MystryBox 2 years ago
I don't understand how the video explains the miracles in the bible.
And no I do not believe because I already believe, and I have encountered masses of evidence that support the bible.
Plus I think it takes more faith to think the entire world and the life on it came about by mere chance -- but thats just me isn't it.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
This video doesn't explain the miracles in the bible, it explains a more simple and likely accounting for the supposed prophecies in the bible. In short it's trivial for the bible writers to simply write "fulfillments" of OT prophecies they were well aware of. And in fact there is evidence that is exactly what was done (e.g. Matthew making a mistake in reading an OT prophecy and having Jesus riding on TWO donkeys).
MystryBox 2 years ago
I think it is just opinion and nothing more than that.
Oh and there is plenty of contraversy regarding the two donkey thing, as there is plenty of evidence that there was two donkeys present and jesus rode on one. And the other Gospels never say that there was only one donkey there.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
It's a fact not opinion that the gospels have no actual evidence for their claims. It is a fact not opinion that a claim of prophecy is more likely explained by someone writing to "fulfill" a prophecy after the fact than there being an actual supernatural event. My opinion is that that is what is actually going on in the gospels, but that opinion is based on the facts.
MystryBox 2 years ago
If your opinion is based on facts could you please tell me what these facts are.
And of course there is no evidence for their "claims", by this you mean miracles and supernatural things -- no more than any other book around that time.
But the Gospels do have tremendous support from plenty of evidence that many people refuse to see. More evidence than you would actually realise. In fact you would be very surprised.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
I listed the facts in the first two sentences of the post you responded to. Try to pay attention.
MystryBox 2 years ago
I still cannot understand why this disproves this one prophecy.
And I think you should pay attention to all the other prophecies that you cannot explain.
And I noticed that you say "Look at whats most likely, not what's possible", so your saying that all the prophecies are most likely to have been fulfilled when people made up the a story that fulfilled it?
Hmm seems more like a story for atheists to explain the prophecies than anything else.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
I'm not disproving the prophecy, I'm explaining a more likely and more reasonable explanation. Rational people believe things that are most likely true rather than things that are unlikely to be true and have no evidence. Many things can't be disproven but that's no reason to believe them. Should we believe in elves simply because they might exist and nobody can disprove them? Or do we recognize it's more likely they don't exist even though we can't prove it, and so we don't believe in them?
MystryBox 2 years ago
I understand what your trying to say, but there comes a point when rational people can accept that there is far more evidence in the bible and all that happens in it than elves.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
@ExplosivePus I don't know how much written claims there are for elves, but even if there are more claims in the bible then there are claims about elves the point remains this is lousy evidence. There isn't any good reason to believe the bible is actually true just a there isn't any good reason to believe elves exist.
MystryBox 2 years ago
No I did not say that the claims in the bible are evidence, because yes that would be lousy if it were just that. But there is far more than you realise. This includes archaelogical evidence, philosophical evidence etc.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
Archaeological evidence... the fact that peoples, cities, and such in the bible existed does not mean the supernatural stories about them actually happened. As for "philosophical evidence" or other supposed evidences, why don't you pick one of your best ones and I'll explain why it's poor.
MystryBox 2 years ago
You make it sound so minor but in fact it was because of the bible that many cities and sites have been discovered. And also the the dead see scrolls provide tremendous support for everything that happens in the old testament, prophecies included. These scrolls included the prophecies of the messiah also, nearly validating the supernatural prophecies of the bible.
And I never said this proves the bible, but supports it very well.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
Yes the bible is an important historical document. But none of its supernatural claims have any evidence. If you disagree present it specifically and I'll explain why you're wrong.
MystryBox 2 years ago
We know that there is great evidence supporting the old testament and archaeological discovers have supported plenty of things in the new testament, so one could assume that this also spports it's claims -- supernatural or not.
And also the dead sea scrolls contain all of the old testament (except Esther) and contain all the same prophecies. This has been verified too and supports prophecies also.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
@ExplosivePus "archaeological evidence" (whatever that supposedly is) is not evidence of the supernatural claims of the bible. That cities sometimes existed where the bible claims does not mean the events claimed about them happened. Besides, if you actually read a modern book on bible archaeology you'll discover that these days they don't think archaeology supports things like the exodus! So I repeat, get specific about some supposed evidence if you want a real reply.
MystryBox 2 years ago
Mind you there is no evidence for your explanation about this miracle.
Okay so you obviously know that there are miracles in the bible that you can't explain. (other than "hey there's no proof!!!) correct?
Many miracles have been pretty much proven. For example one where it is prophecised in the old testament and is confirmed by history to have been fulfilled. And you and I both know that there is no
"Atheistic" explanation for many of them. So if you use your common sense......
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
It's not my job to disprove unlikely claims that have never been supported in the first place. All I have to do is point out there are simpler more likely explanations, and that's what this video does.
If you still don't understand burden of proof consider how ridiculous it would be to have to disprove every claim someone might make rather than expecting them to prove it. I could claim I can fly and say you have to believe it if you can't disprove it. Get it?
MystryBox 2 years ago
No no no why twist my words I never said anything like "you have to believe it if you cant disprove it".
I said that there are many, many prophecies that cannot be explained with your "logic". And even this one cannot be proved, and until you can confirm this claim I won't believe you!! I mean you atheists hold the same point of view there -- I won't believe you until you can prove it.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
@ExplosivePus as I've repeated over and over, I don't have to disprove what has never been proven. I've given a more likely explanation than the supernatural explanation. If you think there remain prophecies that can only be explained by the supernatural why don't you list one as an example and we'll examine it.
MystryBox 2 years ago
And Vice versa, seeing as your opinion of a more likely explanation has no proof either.
Okay I have just one prophecy here, and I have many more if you want me to share them with you.
In Isaiah it prophecised the destruction of Assyria and Nineveh. And that Assyria would (before it's destruction) destroy the ten northern tribes of Israel, but Jerusalem would be spared, even though the Assyrians were intending to destroy it. And a remnant of the ten northen tribes would return.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
@ExplosivePus Sounds like you should become Jewish then.
In a quick search I can't even find the verses you're referring to. Please list specific verses or better yet reference a NT prophecy as I'm much more familiar with the NT than OT.
MystryBox 2 years ago
The prophecy is in Isaiah, and I am not making something up. And please don't give me the "maybe it was written after the fact", its weak and ridculous.
Just admit it, there are prophecies in the bible that are unexplainable to any atheist!!
Merry Christmas to you by the way. I'll be going away for 2 weeks so don't expect a reply for a while. :)
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
If you're painting bull's-eyes around your own arrows no prophecy cannot be fulfilled.
SecularInquisitor 2 years ago
You think that poor excuse can acount for all the amazing prophecies in the bible? Can you use that to explain the prophecy where the bible prophecises the name of the man who restores the jews? No, of course not. You have no answer for it, all you people do is question the authenticity of it.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
Would that name be "Immanuel?" If it is, Yeshua was never referred to by that name first of all. The fact that their name translates to something similiar is just that a similarity. None of the the gospels, epistles, etc. refer to him as such. Furthermore, all of the "prophecies" concerning what the messiah is supposed to do are yet to be fulfilled. Xians openly admit to this failure but say "Oh, he's gonna get it done in Round #2." Start holding your breath and wait till he "comes again"
SecularInquisitor 2 years ago
No the name would be Cyrus. And we can prove it through the dead sea scrolls that it was in fact written down (the prophecy of a man named Cyrus) hundreds of years before a man named CYrus did the things it specified.
Please stop making up excuses for the incredible things in the bible. There are many more prophecies like this in the bible, and you and I both know that these prophecies are incredible.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
...and I suppose this is documented somewere other than a "fundy" website it a reputable journal? If you'll recall the "ark" has been found at least a half dozen times, in different locations.
SecularInquisitor 2 years ago
We both know that you cannot possibly explain this prophecy. And no, the ark has never been located. What your reading from is probably possible ark locations, or bits of wood found.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
exactly my point, thank you. And cite your source, I'm open to the evidence but ifyou can't provide it there's not point in even talking to you.
SecularInquisitor 2 years ago
Everybody does in fact realise that the ark has never been found. Read a book.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
I would suggest you read, "The Bible Unearthed" by Silberman and Finkelstein. Two Jews who are able, to a decent degree, separate their beliefs from where the archeological evidence leads. And the evidence I want you to cite is where you found a dated manuscript containing the prophecy in regards to Cyrus verified to have been written 100 years BEFORE the event and any other prophecy verified by unbias sources dated prior to political realities pointing to the event in question would be great.
SecularInquisitor 2 years ago
Well the prophecy is in Isaiah and Isaiah can be found in the dead sea scrolls which were written from 250 BC to around 65 AD. They contain the entire Old testament except from Esther, and also the prophecy of Cyrus. Using various tests we can see that the prophecy was written before the event.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
Wow, lets take the earliest date. Cyrus died in 530 BC so even the earliest date concerning the dead sea scrolls put them nearly 200 years after the fact. Nice try, try again this one's a L-O-S-E-R! Not a prophecy if it's written after the fact oh and by the way, what are these "certain tests?" Is that all the apologetics website had to say or did they explain the tests?
SecularInquisitor 2 years ago
Sorry, forget about that one. But you must remember that The Dead Sea Scrolls were not the original copies. So it's not as if they only first wrote about Cyrus hundreds of years after it was supposed to happen.
But we both know that you cannot explain this prophecy, and that is the reason you question the sources. Besides the are far more prophecies, all of them amazing. And there is also plenty of evidence of God that you cannot debunk.
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
Yeah, forget about that one, but you can't explain it....umm, yeah...I just did. It was written after the fact. To claim that the dead sea scrolls weren't original doesn't solve your problem it adds to it because it completely invalidates your claim because unless you can provide an original that dates prior to the "prophecy" there is nothng for me to disprove. And if you can name me the proof of god that I cannot debunk I'd love to hear it so far you've not even attempted that.
SecularInquisitor 2 years ago
No it wasn't written after the fact. The Dead Sea Scrolls were not the originals, and mind you it is pretty much impossible for scrolls to survive as long as from the time of Cyrus to today.
So, yes, I have debunked your theory on the prophecy of Cyrus
ExplosivePus 2 years ago
Let's see...Cyrus DIES in 530 BC, the closest the dead sea scrolls is, according to you, 250 BC...what is it you're not understanding. You cannot possibly be this stupid. The bigger the number when it says BC, the longer ago it was. Do you not understand this? You've debunked nothing except the fact I was talking w/someone w/more than 2 brain cells to rub together.