61. Mike Licona - Contradictions in Bible?

[MomoTheBellyDancer]

Yup, this is the proper way to deal with contradictions: ignore them and/or reason them away. Right.

[2012Answers]

The person being interviewed says, if there were contradictions "It may force us to revise our views of inerrancy"! But if the Bible is not inerrant, then it is not inspired, authoritative and therefore trustworthy. either the Bible inspired truth or it is not. Is it not possible that what some call a contradiction is only a contradiction from the perspective of a fallible human who does not have the full picture due either to lack of perception or spiritual blindness?

[ninosl2001]

Weren't the gospels God inspired??? Why would god inspire the authors differently when it came to the same stories?? That only proves how false the whole issue really is.

[MCDebate]

I have always said that Mike Licona is a terrible debater, guess I wasn't wrong

[NaturalMiracleMan]

Wait. In reference to recorded history, Mike Licona said that chronology doesn't matter?!

[Mathenaut]

It's easy to determine whether the titanic broke in two by looking at it's remains. In the case of the bible, there wouldn't be any evidence that the ship even went into that region, much less sank there.

As for contradictions/differences, that is a valid point to make. Doesn't save much face when competing stories about the resurrection contain details that simply cannot be reconciled.

[agarfield2004]

I like this but the music is annoying.

[mehico33]

My issues in the bible are statements like "God is love"(or "perfect/omnipotent" etc) followed by directly contradictory events, for instance God goes to destroy a city(forgot the name, there are a few) then is talked out of it "What if theres 50 good people? 40? 30? etc" by a human(another name I dont remeber), implying god finds a superior course of action to his original plan, thus makes mistakes = not perfect. Also Adam, supposedly "perfect" we all know how that worked out.

Symantecs maybe

[OkamsRazer]

@mehico33 you are referring to the destruction of the twin cities of Sodom and Gamorrah. The Angels went to the city so that he wouldn't kill innocent people (as if he couldn't simply pull another Passover trick but that's another matter).

The man they chose to be their Seeker in the city was Lot. He was tasked to find 10 good people and if so the city would be spared, but he failed to find even 1 (aside from himself and his family of course...who were spared).

[ranmangolf]

Thanks for the message. Sorry if I seemed to be putting words in your mouth etc. Was not my intent. Wishing you the best blessings that life can bring

[ApatheticOmniscience]

@ranmangolf Oh.... ok then. Same to you I guess

[ApatheticOmniscience]

If believing that the Christian God was behind your event makes you enjoy life more, so be it! There's nothing wrong with that! But expecting miracles to conclusively "prove" God, is like expecting UFO sightings to prove the existence of extra-terrestrial visitors. Numbers lack substance.

However, I do find it interesting that miracles are in a seemingly abundant occurrence.. Spirituality, in this form, suggests to have a scientific backing... Unless these events are random that is.

[ranmangolf]

or I will treat it as though it doesn't exist." My point is that this way of thinking is a form of denial. There's too much evidence to dismiss all these unexplainable acts which transcend the laws of nature.

[ranmangolf]

Trust me, I'm not being defensive. My intentions are completely friendly. Emails don't show voice influction. Nevertheless, I understand your point, and to some extent you are right, but on another point I believe you are wrong. If one observes what appears to be nothing short of an act that goes beyond the natural realm - a miracle, your conclusion is this: "If I cannot reason it, if I cannot put it in a test tube vile and explain it, the act must not exist."

[ApatheticOmniscience]

@ranmangolf No, the reason I claimed that you were getting defensive, is that you're putting words in my mouth. Making assumptions and plastering them with my name is not what one may call "friendly". But, it's irrelevant and I'd rather not spend time on such trivial matters...

So hear me out. I never said your claim was illegitimate or did not happen exactly the way you said it did. In fact, believe the LAST thing you should do is deny it. (cont...)

[ranmangolf]

Holes in macro evolution: lack of evidence in the fossil record of species evolving into other species - unscientific. The irrational answers of how life comes from non-life - science has no real answers. The world is too perfect to have not been made by an architect. My arguments do not prove Christianity, but the rational deduction is that there is an all probability there is an intelligent designer. This is just scratching the surface. It doesn't fit in a post.

[ApatheticOmniscience]

@ranmangolf "in the fossil record of species evolving into other species" I'm not sure I'm following you, for there are plenty of fossils that demonstrate the progressive nature of evolution. But expecting science to have already found every transitional species that has ever lived on this planet, is quite unreasonable.

[ApatheticOmniscience]

But yes, science has NOT come to an absolute conclusion about exactly how life formed on this planet. Though there have indeed been experiments like that of Urey-Miller which do prove that amino acids can form from a chemical reaction. Not to mention discoveries of such acids within meteorites. "Information", can indeed, arise in nature. But saying that science will never unlock the secrets of life on Earth, merely because currently accepted theories sound counter-intuitive, is a bit assuming.

[ApatheticOmniscience]

As for the idea that the world is "too perfect" for life.. You're right! But the Earth itself wasn't always able to support life, and it's likely that Mars supported life in the past but no longer. Additionally, plenty of new planets are being discovered. Some that are actually within the "inhabitable zone" of a star. Just goes to show us how life could be more common that previously thought. Scientists might be able to find other "Earth-like" planets out there in such a vast galaxy. Who knows?

[ranmangolf]

(continued again to apatheticomniscience) but you do have to look at miracles with a healthy set of skepticism, along with the possibilities that there may be some truth to it. My story is just one of thousands. Regarding the lightning bolt illustration, you're using a bad example to prove a point that I think you want to believe. I don't think you're open to the evidence.

[ApatheticOmniscience]

@ranmangolf "I don't think you're open to the evidence." Incorrect assumption. Being a skeptic, I happen to rely on reasoning and evidence to make a rational conclusion. My point is simply this: Miracles do not prove a particular God's existence. Assuming your personal experience was caused from divine intervention simply because you couldn't explain it, does not reasonably justify a belief in the Christian god. If you believe otherwise, that is your decision. No need to get defensive (cont...)

[ApatheticOmniscience]

@ranmangolf However, I cannot prove that your experience did not happen. But I can tell you that every religion seems to make claims of miraculous events. If one religion's claims are right and their God exists, what is the explanation for all the other miracles in other religions? It seems unlikely that the Christian God was causing miraculous events (even healings) in the name of ancient Greek gods at one time.

[ranmangolf]

(continued) at approximately 35 miles per hour my Honda XR75 hit the chain at the front forks. too late to hit the brakes. On my back, looking into the sky, a powerful thought (not a voice) came to me and said, "you'd better start listening to me." Skeptically, I looked up and saw the bike's momentum had flipped over the chain (naturally), but I stopped instantly, and I never hit the chain.. Impossible! To stop forward momentum of 35mph without hitting something. Does this prove Christianity? No

[ranmangolf]

With regards to miracles, it depends on the miracle. Some clearly point to God when a specific prayer is requested, and it is answered. I'm not referring to something general such as let it rain today. I'm not "wish theologian," and I hope you are not a "wish skeptic." In my case I was in a motorcycle accident, and my life's desire was far from God. I was running from God. We rode dirt bikes in the gravel pitts and someone had placed a chain across the road to keep cars out. (see more)

[ranmangolf]

It was pointed out In one of my earlier comments, "no one...would defend atrocities done under the name religion," I should have expounded on this to say that "no reasonable person." It is true that people have done attrocities under the name of religion. The actions done in the name of God during the crusades have no legitimate biblical mandate, and they cannot and should not be defended. Hope this helps.

[ranmangolf]

You may have heard the evidences for Christianity in terms of these: Fulfillmnent of O.T. prophecy, consistency of the many writers over hundreds of years, archaeological evidence, and mirarcles. It is the latter point that I am living proof that I've seen God do miraculous things in answered prayer, and in rescue situations. I've experienced both. The latter defied the laws of physics which leads me to believe that a higher power does exist.

[ApatheticOmniscience]

@ranmangolf "Miracles".... Hmm so if there was something that you couldn't explain, you'd consider it the work of God?

This is kinda the same argument ancient Greece made when they came up with their pantheon... They witnessed lightning bolts firing from the sky. Since such things were not within their understanding, they "filled in the unknown" by claiming "divine intervention". They became "certain" that phenomena was the action of "Zeus", sending bolts forth from his fingertips.

[ranmangolf]

It is understandable why someone may be a skeptic if they are hoping for the Bible to be "test-tube prove-able." The Bible says that's not going to happen. But to the atheistic skeptic, in fairness, he should implement this same skeptism while evalutating his belief of atheistic evolution. There are some serious holes in that system which requires LOTS of faith.

[ApatheticOmniscience]

@ranmangolf Perhaps the Bible isn't scientific. Although, would it not be reasonable to expect aspect of every thing God "created" to point to His existence?

As for "holes in evolution". I would enjoy your elucidation of what a "hole In evolution" would be, but for the sake of the discussion... let's assume that you're right.

So.... If. tomorrow, somehow, evolution were to be completely disproved of. But would that automatically "prove" that the Christian God exists?

[xchampx]

@sta How do I know? Look at you. Also, I see how sin affects my relationship with God. My faith, when I sin, gets low or i don't focus on him. This is true and biblical. Another proof of the reality of sin. You don't see it because you are spiritually blind (Romans 1). I don't judge you, I just simply bring out the realities in life with me, you or anyone.

[xchampx]

@stargate353 Wrong wrong wrong. Just blind assertions with no points. The bible, is an ancient book. Of course it doesn't have much science in it because that is not the point of it. Did they have vocabulary for any of the things to describe of our modern day? Would it make sense to do so? of course not. Imagine an ancient colony trying to describe something that is untestable and would basically be nonsensical to their society for thousands of years, til now.

[xchampx]

@stargate353 "If blind faith is believing in something without supporting evidence," No, you just reject the evidence. I see fingerprints, I have experienced God and I have clear evidences in front of me like a fingerprint of a footprint. You see it and reject it or don't see it. And as far as rationality, I don't think that is the issue, I think its whether one can see because sin is what blinds our eyes and hearts and in the bible it mentions this and in reality we experience this.

[xchampx]

@stargate353 "I've been seeking the truth for much longer than you have." more arrogance on your part. It's so funny how arrogant EVERY atheist is. This is a key sign from depravity. You claim there is no God! You need to provide proof. Such arrogance and foolishness.

[xchampx]

@stargate353 God doesn't need our help. However, this is an attempt for those who actually care for truth and want to understand. You want none of it because your foolish heart has been darkened.

[rei161]

What about all the contradictions, with scientific facts.

[CloverfieldMonster95]

These aren't one minute but they're good.

[ranmangolf]

You are partially correct that Christianity may have been perceived like unto Mormonism during this time. The Bible says that the preaching of the cross is foolish to the Greeks, and a stumbling block to the Jews. Nevertheless, what separates Christianity from other religions is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, authentication of Jesus’ message with “signs and wonders,” archaeological/historical accuracy, and miracles which occasionally take place even today.

[ranmangolf]

Treglot, let me say that I believe you are confused on a few facts. Yes, the New Testament was written after Jesus, but I think you are confusing the original autographs (written during the 1st century) with manuscript copies which we presently have. Moreover, there is more textual reliability in the New Testament than any other piece of antiquity during this time period.

[Tregolot]

@ranmangolf Listen, Some think that only the King James Version (KJV) is the real, authentic version, the ONLY one to be inspired by the Holy Ghost. The KJV was authorised by King James I of England, Scotland and Ireland, who rejected the Protestant Geneva Bible but also the Catholic Bible. He ordered Anglican scholars to translate the original texts into English. This became the KJV. It is not a bad translation but it was chiefly designed to suit Anglican doctrines.

[Tregolot]

@Tregolot I watch as all the major religion point out how delusional the other ones are. the Muslims are saying the Christians are Delusion and the Christians believe that everyone who is not a Christian is delusional or they assume they do not read the text and attack with circular logic to protect the fragile divinity of their little truth. When you study how the bible we read now was formed. who it was formed by and what those people believed its very clear to see there is truth...

[Tregolot]

@Ranmangolf. To all religions but all have been changed and corrupted. By the way. if your messiah was Jewish. He fulfilled the Jewish prophecy. worshiped ONLY on the Jewish sabbath. And YOU believe he supports this offshoot religion that at its core has become more pagan than jewish...you might want to take a step back and look at that. I know you will tell me somthing in this tainted book that tells you its divine. but the morons im sorry Mormons can make the same argument from their text.

[ranmangolf]

Mike Licona has made some logical arguments in defense of the Bible. Some of the commentators below show poor logic and fail to objectively critique his observations with relevant facts. For instance, to use the analogy of the catholic church's conquests under the crusades is hardly an argument. No one, especially not Mike would defend atrocities done under the name of religion. The question is whether or not there are contradictions in the Bible.

[Tregolot]

@ranmangolf Logical argument? where??? if mike is correct this absolutely brings in to question the reliability of the gospels. first off if you read history. this means the second coming of christ as foretold in revelation is just apocalyptic greek style writing. It amazes me how many mindless people sit here and act like he made any real answer. and his titanic comparison is a total joke. first off it would be more like the great grandchildren telling the details of the titanic crashing

[Tregolot]

@ranmangolf because most of the books in the NT are undisputed when it comes to the fact they are almost all written after jesus's time. 2-5 hundred years in fact. and it is the details that make you "christian". the fact you buy into the divinity of the bible shows how easily you are led my the nose. Have you ever played the game where you whisper to the person next to you something and by the end it usually is not even the same message? imagine numerous stories passing the same way.

[Tregolot]

@ranmangolf I love you all but seriously brothers. if this was 1500 years ago. you were the mormons of the world. no facts just grand stories. But I guess Mike Licona saw jesus. It is also sad that christianity has been mistranslated and wrong throughout history...The world is flat, we are the center of the universe herbal medicine is witchcraft. gays are going to hell... wake up people.

[ApatheticOmniscience]

@ranmangolf "No one, especially not Mike would defend atrocities done under the name of religion." I'm sorry but I must disagree. You're making an assumption by claiming that "no one" would defend extremist actions such as the crusades. But, ask yourself this: "Why would actions like that be committed if their perpetrator would not defend them?"

Apparently, instigators of religious hypocrisies do indeed justify their actions. Justification is, by definition, a "defense."

[PMWLiving]

The Bible is BS, it was written by 40 authors which were human and humans make mistakes. This is why there are contradictions. Religion is a tool to control the simple minded. Study history of Pope led armies that pillaged, raped, burned, destroyed and tortured innocent people of different countries some 18 or 19 centuries in the past. How did they get away with convincing their citizens to become the soldiers in charge of these atrocities? It was with religion of course!

[FinalSmashBrother]

@PMWLiving But it's not like everyone did it, maybe they were not actually religious. Like many crusaders

[ctgrad98]

@PMWLiving So should we throw out all history books newspapers etc since those are written by humans too?

[rashonx]

@ctgrad98

Please tell me you arent saying that there are anywhere near the same amount of fact and evidence for the bible asthere is whats in our history books or newspapers  are you?

[M3PanoS]

@PMWLiving Yea, what a great tool to control the masses when during Biblical times the masses were largely godless or pagans that did as they pleased within the confinements of their respective state. Chief among the things they did? Oh yea, persecute and murder Christians. Get out of here with this 'religion is to control the simple minded' bullshit.

[rahatkhan]

@lilsoulkid from science we have come to find out that the earth formed and it was greatly helped and could have been impossible with the sun. All these planets around the sun formed after the sun was created. the sun was a source of light and life on earth. Yet the bible claims that the earth came before the sun, which is against proven science, therfore the bible contains a scientific contradiction.

[StarRonKid]

@rahatkhan pointless the first day of creation was Light, to which from light the sun and starts came, so no contradiction. thank you study up on light and where it comes from and what light actually is

[rahatkhan]

@StarRonKid day 1: god created night and day. then on day 3 he made the earth. now the night (absence of light) and the day requres the rotation of the earth around the sun, as seen on earth. you cant experience night and day without earth. on day 3 then god made earth. so what is this night and day on the first day?

[StarRonKid]

@rahatkhan 1. i dont think you understand, God made light, and then he seperated the light and the darkness. do remember that the spirit of the Lord was hovering over the water, which was earth before land was made, so in a way the "earth" still had some structure/mass .

[rahatkhan]

@StarRonKid what you fail to understand is that darkness is just absence of light..not a seperate thing from light.

[skepticnyc]

He could have just said:

YES.

[MultiSolucion]

napoleon la france was a hugde men but also little men . praise the lord.

[MultiSolucion]

And if you not can handle the truth. Leave your reaction with spelbound/grammar or like thats ., IF YOUR ARE SEARCHING FOR NEW JOB TEACHER GRAMMAR. GO . DO IT . learn the message that the issueeeeeeeeeeeéééé. are the white ppl always the superior /predominated the correction of grammar,, hello i also now tricks .synonym or proverbs , how many lengua did you speak then only ingles??? praise the lord

[MultiSolucion]

if men the huemen men changed the frases then you really get a contradiction but this is men humen work , not the work of God words, THE MEN created the half truth , they make new frases .people used your brains.. why would men do this ?? yes for winning people are athiest or the type doubters, IF YOU WANNE research the bible from 1600 or the bible reprinted 1975 see the diferents men are cheaters and liars,,, PRAISE THE LORD.he see the truth and justify.

[punkmusicmetal]

Reconcile Old and New Testament portrayal of God.

[rahatkhan]

BIBLE SAYS EARTH WAS CREATED BEFORE THE SUN! SCIENTIFIC ERROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[52blades]

Thanks!

[phil8888]

Great video