P & T: Mother T

[ianmacsmith]

Penn is usually dead on, but he's reaching quite a bit on that one.

a. Theresa was cold and emotionless? no shit. she has probably seen more death and misery than anyone in history. she wouldnt have been able to do what she did if she was weeping over every death. the ex-nun was putting herself and her feelings above helping the poor.

b. name me a charity in the history of mankind that hasnt taken money from a bad person, and i will donate every cent i have to them.

[Vynjira]

@ianmacsmith There are several charities that don't take money period.

In addition there are plenty of charities who actually use the money that you donate to help the suffering.

That isn't the point tho, she took the money and used it to build nunneries.

This money could have been used to improve the conditions of the suffering, or even get them actual help.

[varoneezy]

wow that ruined my night

[goPistons06]

mother teresa has achieved the status of idol in western society, and there's nothing i love more than bringing down idols

[jakeharvey]

Donohue's "wanted people to live in impoverished conditions" quote sounds very much like it was taken out of context. I'd like to hear the rest of the interview. What "people"? The nuns? Of course she wanted the nuns to also live in poverty to help identify with the people they lived amongst.

I love Penn & Teller but I really think they went off the deep end with this one. It's all insinuation and association.

[fauxx82]

@jakeharvey I thought so too, but then why would he say 'people' instead of just 'nuns'?

[Vynjira]

@islandmamma No more than Mother T.

[Kytseo]

So, who got to this from the knight templar page on tvtropes?

[CopyRezo36]

@Kytseo Knight Templar advocate of TV Tropes reporting, Sir!

[Kytseo]

@CopyRezo36 /salutes CopyRezo36, at ease, personally, I see myself as a bit of a knight templar, but essentially torturing innocents isn't my style, I'm more of a "follower of the Kira philosophy" type of knight templar

[CopyRezo36]

@Kytseo I'm a lawful neutral person in a non Lawful Stupid kind of way, so I was on the Knight Templar page looking at like minded characters. I must endeavor to be Genre Savvy in the event I become a villain at some point. :P I don't think I like Mother Teresa's personal interpretation of... devotion.

[Kytseo]

@CopyRezo36 agreed, again, more of a "kill criminals" type of knight templar (however, I'd see if they were doing something like steal for a loved one's health before mercilessly killing them painfully)

[CopyRezo36]

@Kytseo Yea... at the rate Kira was killing criminals it didn't seem like he bothered to verify if they were actually bad people, or truthfully guilty of their crimes. He just tuned into the "criminal channel" and started taking names!

[Kytseo]

@CopyRezo36 then season 2 came about and he went from "I will be god OF THE PERFECT WORLD!" to "I WILL BE GOD! (of the perfect world)"

[HectorFernandez1986]

@Kytseo I did!

[captainredneck1983]

@Kytseo Guilty!

[KingsWorld2010]

P & T are a pair of cunts, but you got to hand it to them, they're fucking good at what they do! lol

Fucking mugs ,lol

[thunderstruck665]

I seriously hope that Empire State Building ownership continues to fight the demands of scumbag Donahue and the Catholic League to light the building to commemorate Mother T's 100th birthday. She was a truly vile human being.

[mrdaym]

So what good has this fucking hag done for the people in India?

[Nackles]

Oh, Bill Donahue...at this point you're just comical. (Srsly, look him up on YT, esp. that interview where he tries to dismiss the abuse Irish priests inflected on children in Irish orphanages etc.)

[schadworld1]

The opening joke about Michael Moore is classic.

Also, Hitchens is classic as usual.

[cinndave]

@schadworld1 Penn really hates Michael Moore for his deceptive messages and stalker tactics.

[mrdaym]

@schadworld1 He seems a lot more sober than usual though.

[deeta000]

Fuck your god. Praying is like wishing upon a star.

[cinndave]

They don't even bother to sterilize their IV's at the hospice. No point.

[AntigoneRisen]

That is untrue. All needles are sterilized, even those used for lethal injection.

[cinndave]

That's in the US. I meant the hospice in Calcutta.

[ss90ss444]

Religious people are often frauds.

[Vynjira]

Because religious people often do not understand morality.

[BrendanIsCool]

@Vynjira included with every bible should be george h mead's mind self and society. We do not have souls, we have an intricate mass of neurons. We do not have god given morality, we have societal constructs. We must end religion, people!

[1acount]

fu

[1acount]

@ss90ss444 oh it goes FAR beyond religion

[JCMELKOR]

"nun on the run" has a ring to it. haha

[cinndave]

Nothing's funnier than watching a nun trying to run.

[cardsmaster12]

so is mother t bad

[gruicix]

i did not know that mother T. was a beach rly.

[Obasiliasfilosofos]

We need a Penn-teller and Hitchens show!

Two entertainers and a hard talking English man!

[Diannakw]

but shes so cute!

[cinndave]

They should have brought up her anti-abortion fanaticism. She goes beyond the Catholic convention to say you shouldn't even have one to save your fucking life. If a fatal pregnancy complication's gonna kill the woman, let 'em both die. When 100,000 Indians were impregnated by the Pakistani army mass rapes, all she cared about was making the rape victims not abort, instead raise their babies all alone as single mothers in dire poverty after being shamed out of their families. Have a nice life.

[TheRealAkaRai]

That's about the biggest strawman fallacy I've ever read. Why is it the fault of the child if they were the product of rape? How can poverty justify slaughtering infants? You're trying to justify murder by saying their lives would be shitty. A lot of people have shitty lives, and still go on to do great things. Many people are born poor and sickly, and die wealthy and accomplished. Your pro abortion fanatacism has blinded you to any logic, intelligence, or compassion. In short, fuck you.

[cinndave]

A world of wanted children is a better world indeed. Incidentally, most countries that outlaw abortion aren't doing as well when it comes to education, quality of life and accomplishment. It's been shown that religious opposition and laws that make it illegal have negligible effect on the demand for abortions; it only makes them more dangerous for the women. Not much point in forbidding it.

Compassion would be to help these women get what they want after being raped, not forcing them to mother.

[TheRealAkaRai]

@cinndave Except, rape is the reported reason for abortion less than 1% of the time, as rapists are cowards and wear condoms or pull out before finishing. So your exampls is as uneducated as it is asinine, and profoundly ignorant and insipid an excuse for murdering children.

[tjdeuceosix]

@TheRealAkaRai why don't you check the stats on how much rape is EVER reported. then you'll understand the stat you just posted.

[mets72692]

wow, teller spoke!

[halloweenfan92]

missionary position lol

[HmmNeedsMoreSubtext]

Holy shit. That's... wow. I'm amazed she's still got any bite as a cliche of selflessness in our culture.

Well bravo, Penn and Teller. I never would have known about this otherwise.

[cwclemons2007]

Hitchens is the fucking man!!!!!!

[cinndave]

@cwclemons2007 This clip left out some funny outtakes from the Hitchens interview where he's mumbling complaints and slurping whiskey and fumbling with his lighter, meanwhile the man behind the camera is like "um, can we just continue with this interview?"

He's one of those atheists that's obnoxious to talk to in person.

[Nackles]

Yeah, Hitchens is one of those "Oh dear, does he have to be on our side?" types. And the very definition of a blowhard.

[lucybean975]

what can you say? myth busters are just the best!

that having been said: it's sad. her cult of personality is just shame. what she did was just a shame. no wonder she was such a darling of the wealthy: "the poor should suffer further; all's right with the world when they do."

it's all so effed up.

[butchdeadlift10]

that hit like a truck

[pontsanchez]

I love these guys!!!

[Ryuuken24]

We can all rest asured that she IS dead, and no more people have to suffer under her painregime.

[Dalnijrus]

Really? *Everything?*

What a garbage position.

[KevServo]

Hitchens is an asshole and I love him for it.

[prosophobic]

is this meant to be an argument againt asceticism?

[Eldritchard]

no, against mother theresa

[jaggirl23]

fucking religion.

thumbs down.

[merrett]

Don't know anything about Mother Teresa. I just asked my dad and he said she never actually healed anyone, she just helped them die.

[faithm]

I've never heard that she's ever healed anyone.

[ECWNET]

I would love to take a tour of one of those magnificent places you speak of. Please, show me.

[Howdoyouspellretard]

Bill Donahue, moron.

2:25 "wouldn't you take it from the rich?" Well, Bill, she took it from the rich who took it from the poor. So she takes money from the Haitian poor to give to the nunneries.

[truthseeker1972]

Type in "Christopher Hitchens Mother Teresa Hell's Angel" in the YouTube search feature. You're certain to come across a BBC documentary hosted by Hitch that is a very damning indictment of this fraudulent old shrew.

[khlynov]

Uh, such as??????

[qwertyuiop726]

I bet Hitchens could do a mean David Bowie impression...

[wheresmyhagau]

Weird how that exact thought popped into my head the moment he started talking...

[smaakjeks]

"If you do research, I think that it is important to respect the people in question as well as the people they help by listening to them directly."

A person is judged by his acts, not his words. If I look into it, I'll be as unbiased as I possibly can. Now frankly, this is not the medium for having a discussion. If you have more to say, send me a private message.

[smaakjeks]

"It is a philosophical point that is flawed because its presuppositions override the testimony of any person in question before any serious inquiry and/or verification is undertaken."

Neither is it a philosophical point, nor is it an argument I am using. I'm saying it's a possibility. That's all I have said, and that's all I will say until, if I choose to, take the time to investigate this myself.

[smaakjeks]

"How can anyone assume "psychological cowing" (based on the program) when the supposed "victims" nor any of the supposed "perpetrators" of the alleged mind control have been interviewed?"

Sweet jumping Jesus... We've been through this. I did NOT say that THESE people HAD been victims of psychological cowing. I said that it is possible, since we know people CAN be psychologically cowed. Pay attention.

[smaakjeks]

"Actually, the idea is well founded.(...)a great sacrifice because of "a genuine love for his/her God"."

If that is your argument they don't acknowledge that ANY person, atheist or not really does something in complete unselfish charity. It's not an argument against christian charity in particular, it's a philosopical viewpoint on human behavior in general.

[redgoldbluephantom]

This is the intellectual problem with most (but not all) atheists. They cannot conceive the idea that someone is willing to sacrifice for other people for reasons that are not self-serving. So they try to find a "scheme", "fetish" or "scandal" behind the work of every religious humanitarian.

[smaakjeks]

"This is the intellectual problem with most (but not all) atheists. They cannot conceive the idea that someone is willing to sacrifice for other people for reasons that are not self-serving."

Now THAT'S bullshit.

[Dragonfall1607]

Uh, we all knew mother Teresa was cruel before this show.

[redgoldbluephantom]

cont...

3. Not actually visiting any of the hospices/shelters for troubled women in the U.S. 4. Not mentioning the technological/social/cultural differences between India and other developed countries. 5. Not interviewing a single person who has received care through the missionaries ministry. 6. Not citing the fact that no humanitarian organization (e.g. NATO, Unicef, etc.) has found fault with the care the missionaries provide in their hospices.

[redgoldbluephantom]

To allow one's personal viewpoint to color a documentary to the point of being journalistically lop-sided is intellectually unfair (which is contrary to the whole point of atheism). Some simple of examples of this are: 1. Not interviewing any of the sisters (there are 1,000's of them in the world). 2. Not interviewing a single author who is a proponent of Mother Theresa's ministry (there are more than two).

[msmit118]

I find the comparison of a novice nun commenting on Theresa to a first year medical student commenting on a specific surgery because of her lack of experience (previous comment) amusing. That's like saying an ex-member of any organization is unqualified to give a moral comment on their practices because they weren't part of the inner circle and only saw the results.

[redgoldbluephantom]

When referring to something as complex as religious spirituality the comparison applies because spirituality she was criticizing. Her criticism can be put to question because it contradicts the experience of the majority of the people her sisters have helped through her ministry. She cannot fully understand that spirituality because he lacks the full experience and knowledge of it (remember, she called a novice for a reason).

[redgoldbluephantom]

Penn assumes that the average person who contributes funds to the Missionaries is unaware that the money is used to build "nunneries" and support religious activies. I find it odd that Penn did not interview an average person and ask him/her, "If you gave money to Mother Theresa's Sisters, and they used it to build a convent in a poor neighborhood. Would you find that objectionable?" Maybe they didn't ask the question because the answer wouldn't support Penn's disdain for Mother Theresa.

[redgoldbluephantom]

The author of "The Final Verdict" massages the idea of using money to build "nunneries" is a misuse of funds. The money spent on the accomodations of the sisters is astonishingly minimal (they sleep on mats, have only 2 saris, a few books and a handbag). Even the food they eat costs little because they eat the left-overs from their soup kitchen services. All so that they can best serve the poor. No one in the program "reveals" these facts because it disagrees with the premise of the show.

[FeToFegallosblancos]

no ,the problem is that her places did not take care of people , they were only made to gather dying people to live in crappy conditions their lasts moments, and strangely could not be visited by their families

[redgoldbluephantom]

Actually, Penn did not explain that it in India is common for the poor to die on the side of the streets where their bodies decay and/or are eaten by animals before they are cleaned up. Another conspicuous omition is that most of those dying people are Hindu and they refuse medical care. In order to fair (culturally), why didn't Penn investigate one of her hospices in the U.S.?

[msmit118]

Because they covered her, Gandhi, and the Dali Lama in one half hour episode, that's why. Also, "less evil" is different than "good". That's why they cite other sources of information (two full books in this example). This is an openly Atheist show, and so nunneries and missionaries are automatically negative. The major beef is the cult of suffering she created.

[redgoldbluephantom]

Citing two authors of "two full books" is not what is called a fair presentation when there are many more authors who praise Mother Theresa's work/spirituality that they did not interview, cite or even acknowledge.

[msmit118]

One last counter-comment: I find the implication, under the label of 'cultural fairness' in a previous comment here, that Hindus and other Indians are unworthy of a decent standard of care because they have largely been deprived of it not only racist, but an insult against the entire human species. Dressing it up as multiculturalism only makes it worse. If they refuse care do their Hindu beliefs I find it hard to believe they would care about following Catholic death rituals and practices.

[redgoldbluephantom]

If there is not an infrastructure (public water system) to have toilets in the hospice, then it cannot happen. It's culturally unfair to fault the sisters for that. Also, the Hindus and non-Catholics who die in the hospices do not undergo the "Catholic death rituals and practices" (sacraments).

[redgoldbluephantom]

It is conspicuous that the author of "The Final Verdict" implies that using funds to support religious activies is a bad thing without mentioning what religious activies the missionaries perform. After some basic research I found out that the primary religious activity of the Missionaries of Charity is to provide care for "the poorest of the poor" - that's one of their vows. The other religious activies that they take part in such as prayer and teaching religion, costs little to nothing.

[redgoldbluephantom]

It is peculiar that the producers of this show profiled only Mother Theresa's hospices in India where the social/cultural/technological/­religious norms and standards are much different from the ones where the Penn & Teller show was produced (U.S.). Why didn't they investigate one in New York or any other big city where she has hospices/shelters? Wouldn't doing so give the show more credibility or would it just contradict the bias of the producers?

[smaakjeks]

The whole point of the episode is to show that MT (Mother Teresa) was not the saint she's been made out to be. In developed countries it's harder to get away with having inhumane conditions for the poor. She won the nobel peace award for goodness sake! Wake up and smell the coffee!

[redgoldbluephantom]

The point about the differences in conditions is answered below. It is not a question of "getting away" with something, it's about doing the best a person can in a given situation and context. A documentary that criticizes the Missionaries is not a bad thing, it should just be done with integrity and fairness. This one has neither.

[smaakjeks]

It's not a documentary. It's a biased show made to entertain people. Of course there is gray area, as with everything. Again I refer to what the point of the show was.

[redgoldbluephantom]

The goal of the show was to "expose" Mother Teresa as a "fraud" by referencing individuals. In other words it is not intended to be purely entertainment, but "informative". The main problem lies in the lopsidedness of the presentation.

[smaakjeks]

"The goal of the show was to "expose" Mother Teresa as a "fraud" by referencing individuals. In other words it is not intended to be purely entertainment, but "informative"

Did I say it was purely for entertainment?

"The main problem lies in the lopsidedness of the presentation."

Convince me she was a good humanitarian, then. Provide evidence and good sources.

[redgoldbluephantom]

Books written by authors such as Katheryne Spink and Dominique LaPierre are a good place to start for reference. The documents from the Nobel Foundation, older magazines such as Time (before her death) are others. The best evidence are the people who have been helped by the Missionaries - just to go one of the shelters, hospices or soup kitchens and talk to one of them (I have - Penn & Teller have not). Their personal accounts have more credentials than anyone else.

[smaakjeks]

"Books written by authors such as Katheryne Spink"

What books? The biography she wrote? It must be true, coz it's in a book, right?

"The best evidence are the people who have been helped by the Missionaries"

Yet you ignore the testimony of a former nun. And the lack of publicated accounts.

"Their personal accounts have more credentials than anyone else."

Personal accounts from victims of emotional/psychological control can be unreliable.

[redgoldbluephantom]

"Personal accounts from victims of emotional/psychological control can be unreliable." - Have you met any of them or are you making stereotypical assumptions?

".. you ignore the testimony of a former nun." - She was never a nun (novices are not fully sisters as I had clarified before) and she is one descenting voice among the 4,000+ women who became and remain missionary sisters.

Published accounts of her work are found in the references I gave before. Maybe you should read them.

[redgoldbluephantom]

"What books? The biography she (Spinks) wrote? It must be true, coz it's in a book, right? - smaakjets

It is true that Spinks and LaPierre are authors who wrote books... so are Hitchens and Chatterjee. If you are trying to make a point, you need to clarify it better.

[smaakjeks]

"It is true that Spinks and LaPierre are authors who wrote books... so are Hitchens and Chatterjee. If you are trying to make a point, you need to clarify it better."

Endulging biographies are less likely to be true than critical analysis books.

[redgoldbluephantom]

"Endulging biographies are less likely to be true than critical analysis books." - smaakjets

Biographies (are you assuming that they are "endulging" or did you actually read them?) were not the only sources I cited 6 days ago.

[smaakjeks]

"Biographies (are you assuming that they are "endulging" or did you actually read them?) were not the only sources I cited 6 days ago."

I'm assuming, you're right about that. I hate to say I don't have the time to read all that, and I do remain open to the possibility that Hitchens is either wrong, misinterpreting or lying. Have your read what he has written?

[redgoldbluephantom]

"Have your read what he has written?"

Yes, I have read articles written by Hitchens and listened to many of his and others' criticisms of Mother Teresa. Although I have not read the book, I have read a synopsis of his main criticisms of her and the missionaries.

[smaakjeks]

"Yes, I have read articles written by Hitchens and listened to many of his and others' criticisms of Mother Teresa. Although I have not read the book, I have read a synopsis of his main criticisms of her and the missionaries."

And can you refute his critisicm with facts? Anything specific?

[redgoldbluephantom]

I already have my responses to some of the criticisms posed in the video. Other issues I am still looking into and forming an opinion (in particular, the situation with Haiti).

[smaakjeks]

"I already have my responses to some of the criticisms posed in the video. Other issues I am still looking into and forming an opinion (in particular, the situation with Haiti)."

I meant Hitchen's book, not P&T.

[redgoldbluephantom]

Many of the criticisms leveled on the video are the ones used in the book "Missionary Position".

[smaakjeks]

"Many of the criticisms leveled on the video are the ones used in the book "Missionary Position"."

Like...

[redgoldbluephantom]

The use of charitable funds for "religious purposes" (both he and Chattergee) and the intention of her work (to comfort and meet the basic needs of the poor).

[smaakjeks]

"Have you met any of them or are you making stereotypical assumptions?"

I'm saying that they are not necessarily accountable. The pictures of those places speak for themselves. Your point that those places are better than nothing is sort of like saying child labour is admirable.

"She was never a nun"

Moot.

[smaakjeks]

"and she is one descenting voice among the 4,000+ women who became and remain missionary sisters. "

4000 women who are religiously biased to support what happens. Argument ad populum as well.

[redgoldbluephantom]

The statement, "... she is one descenting voice among the 4,000+ women who became and remain missionary sisters." is not an ad populum, because it is not an argument. The statement is an observation that supports the conclusion that the presentation was lopsided and her criticisms were likely based on incomplete education of the missionaries' spirituality.

[smaakjeks]

"The statement is an observation that supports the conclusion that the presentation was lopsided and her criticisms were likely based on incomplete education of the missionaries' spirituality."

And such an observation is an argumentum ad populum.

[redgoldbluephantom]

"And such an observation is an argumentum ad populum." smaaks 10/16

Observations are not arguments by their very nature. An observation can be used to support a valid point as long as it is not used as a premise or a conclusion.

[smaakjeks]

"Observations are not arguments by their very nature. An observation can be used to support a valid point as long as it is not used as a premise or a conclusion."

And the conclusion you make IS your argument. You can use pedantics as much as you like, using sheer number as a validation of your conclusion is an argumentum ad populum. Like it or not.

[redgoldbluephantom]

Logically, the premises and the conclusion are the components of an argument.

The conclusion is that the presentation was lopsided and unfair. This was premised upon Kelly's inexperience as a novice and the lack of interviews with any of the sisters, the people they helped or anyone officially associated with the missionaries. The observation only supports the premises and the conclusion.

[smaakjeks]

"Logically, the premises and the conclusion are the components of an argument.

The conclusion is that the presentation was lopsided and unfair. This was premised upon Kelly's inexperience as a novice and the lack of interviews with any of the sisters, the people they helped or anyone officially associated with the missionaries. The observation only supports the premises and the conclusion."

I have addressed this already.

[redgoldbluephantom]

Have you ever taken a college level logic class?

[smaakjeks]

"Have you ever taken a college level logic class?"

I've taken general philosophy at my university, yes.

[redgoldbluephantom]

General philosophy is not quite the same as a class solely dedicated to logic. Your missapplication of terms makes this quite evident.

[smaakjeks]

"General philosophy is not quite the same as a class solely dedicated to logic. Your missapplication of terms makes this quite evident."

One does not need to take a class in logic to rightly applicate terms. You did use an argumentum ad populum and I explained why. It's not my fault that you refuse to accept it. If not then you could endulge me by explaining what you think would constitute such an argument.

[redgoldbluephantom]

On 11/5 you stated that the people pictured were "victims of emotional/psychological control" (mind control). What do you base that on? A personal experience with "those people" or a broad, unverified assumption?

[smaakjeks]

"On 11/5 you stated that the people pictured were "victims of emotional/psychological control" (mind control). What do you base that on? A personal experience with "those people" or a broad, unverified assumption?"

It was not asserted as a true statement, but a possibility. Surely you can see that such a possibility is justified.

[redgoldbluephantom]

"Personal accounts from victims of emotional/psychological control can be unreliable." -- is an empirical statement. It was not originally asserted as a possibility because there are no qualifiers to make it such (e.g. "If these people are victims...", "It is possible that they are victims...", etc.).

[redgoldbluephantom]

The assumption that it is possible that those people are victims of mind control is still unjustified. Pictures can never be the basis of evaluating the psychological state of the individuals in them. Only through interviews can such a remote non-professional evaluation be possible.

[smaakjeks]

"The assumption that it is possible that those people are victims of mind control is still unjustified. Pictures can never be the basis of evaluating the psychological state of the individuals in them. Only through interviews can such a remote non-professional evaluation be possible."

I agree.

[smaakjeks]

""Personal accounts from victims of emotional/psychological control can be unreliable." -- is an empirical statement"

Yes. However, I did NOT say that these people in particular necessarily suffered that kind of psychological compromise. I said it was a possibility because we know that it can happen to people who ARE exposed to afforementioned compromise.

[redgoldbluephantom]

What "afformentioned compromise" are you referring to?

[smaakjeks]

"What "afformentioned compromise" are you referring to?"

The ones that would make testimony from the patients questionable (if this is the case). Psychological control. I hate this 500 char. limit...

[redgoldbluephantom]

Can you be more specific?

[smaakjeks]

"Can you be more specific?"

About the effect of psycholoical cowing, you mean?

[smaakjeks]

Okay, I see that we aren't getting very far. Shall we agree that we will both look honestly for the truth with as little bias as we can? I'll look into it and see if your protests hold water, when I get the time. How's that?

[redgoldbluephantom]

I found it logically inconsistent that the author of "The Final Verdict" proclaimed that there were no public records of how the donated money was spent, yet he "knows" that most of it is kept in the Vatican bank.

[redgoldbluephantom]

It is suspicious that Penn makes a big deal about Mother Theresa's name change as if she were using it like an alias to cover something up. First of all basic research reveals that for literally thousands of years, most women who enter convents changed their names as a symbol of their new calling (inspired by Biblical figure like Paul of Tarsus). Also "Mother" is a title given to the women in charge of convents.

[FeToFegallosblancos]

i agree on that, what´s so bad a bout changing her name?

[redgoldbluephantom]

It is odd that Penn did not tell the audience how long Kelly (the former "nun") was a member of the group. From the pictures she was a novice (smaller veil), which means she was still in the process of being educated as a sister (a process that takes years). If this is the case, using her as an authority on Theresa's "cult of suffering" would be like asking a (drop-out) first year medical student to review the latest method of heart valve repair surgery.

[redgoldbluephantom]

This presentation is skewed/unfair on many levels. It is odd that out of the abundance of authors who wrote positive biographies of Mother Theresa, none of them were interviewed for the program. Also, Penn failed to inform the audience that Bill Donahue is not (nor has ever been) a spokesperson for the Missionaries of Charity. Why didn't they interview one of the sisters?

[mamece2]

yes, he talks! what a fraud!

[BlueBarrier782]

Did Teller talk?

[ragexgod]

"I hope this covers my soul for talking shit about Mother Theresa."

Awesome. But how can that comedian, knowing what she knows about how things stand in the world, still believe in tthe church? How much more insight does she need?

[yootube5]

Wow