Air Crash Investigation - Cutting Corners / Fatal Error - Alaska Airlines Flight 261

[mjl1966y]

The dipiction at 20:16 seems incorrect. If the entire stab acts as the elevator, the the elevators act as a trim tab would on a regular non-movable stab. The elevators angled up would reduce camber, causing the stab to angle down, which increases stab camber and thus lift, which brings the tail up and the nose down. In other words, since the stab moves, shouldn't the elevators actually move opposite than they would for a non-movable stab?

[krnv4]

that is why these planes do their flight controls check before takeoff

[collegeman1988]

As long as the lawsuits and penalties are cheaper than routine maintainance and inspections, this will keep happening.

[mugengaia]

Those two pilots are by far the most amazing pilots I have ever seen from the recreation or from the actual voice recordings. These guys did not give up even till the very last second of death.

[Hypernl]

0:53 Even the NG logo is shaking from the violence of the plunge.

[AMD1]

@stevannz you both are morons. I bet you guys have never flown on a single Douglas/McDonnell Douglas plane. Instead of wasting you're time on youtube, exercise your brain with books and articles, then people just might take you both seriously. now go wash your moms dishes and take out the garbage, and don't come back to youtube if you're going to type such childish coments. ie "Death contraption 10" & "Meant for Destruction"

[Bluthemacaw1]

I can not imagine a plane spinning arournd like a top and to think people where in there

[blindflyer10]

RIP to all on board 261, my thoughts go out to the passengers, crew and their families today, marking 12 years.

[pauldames1]

All business is structured where something inevitable might happen. It's horrific to think it can be assumed people will die, insurance companies will set rates and amounts to be paid in case of tragedy. The backwards way of thinking allows any company to simply do the math and decide whether they want to gamble with our lives, which of course they do everyday by allowing unsafe circumstances.

[icemachine79]

@pauldames1 The worst thing about their math is that even if 99.99% of their passengers survive and they only pay out let's say 2% of their profits on reimbursement it still means they've lost a plane and killed 100 people in the process. Accumulation of wealth is supposed to be a means to an end rather than a goal itself for a good reason. If you put money first you'll end up losing it all in the end and/or ruining everything else in your life and the lives of those close to you.

[AleeexHDz]

how could they have died instantly, its just water not ground

[Irulebuddy73]

@AleeexHDz Thats true, but depending on the height that you fall from, water can be just as hard as concrete on impact. Plus the water probably gushed in at extremely high pressures.

[Hypernl]

@AleeexHDz: With this speed, water is as hard as concrete, causing the plane to stop instantly and disintegrate as soon as it hits the water. Your body hitting the planes interior with the same speed while everything disintegrates. No way a human body can withstand these forces.

[icemachine79]

@Hypernl Yeah, it must have hit the water at something like 150-200 G's. The human body can only handle about 1/10th of that. At least death was instantaneous. But that 60 second plunge... man that must have been hell.  The only thing worse I can think of is the 747 that lost it's cargo door while flying off the coast of Hawaii causing 8 people to get sucked out. Just thinking about a four minute free-fall at night into the Pacific Ocean while strapped to a seat gives me nightmares.

[720069mf]

@AleeexHDz I heard and felt the distant impact; 4:29 pm. triple explosion within 1 second ; my windows shook like a small earthquake for a split second. I live in Ventura ,ca.

[swisspilotA380]

DC-10: Death contraption 10.......MD 80: More Death 80

[aerofores]

okay i feel horrible for those who died...........and I'm sorry for their families but holly shit i HATE the voice of the narrator

[luckysod04]

It's so comforting to know that if you should attempt heroism like John Leotine's, be prepared to be forsaken by everyone.

[Sennanchie]

This truly makes me sick to my stomach. The fact that all of those people died a terrifying death due to a direct result of corporate profit. My heart goes out to all of the families of this tragedy. I also commend the Captain and first officer for fighting tooth and nail until the bitter end, but it wasn't their fault. It brought tears to my eyes to see this unfold.

[TheWheels777]

this is an extremely disturbing incident. those poor souls on board

[luna1632]

shouldn't the captain have tryed to land?

[AtheistBrit]

@luna1632 They did try to land. They decided to go for an emergency landing, and along the way they decided to troubleshoot.

[chubbybannanabuddy]

John Liotine reported the mechanic's negligence and never signed off, yet his report was ignored and the plane was released with the faulty stabilizer which resulted in the plane crash. :l could've saved 88 lives.

[ramathorn2112]

Asshole management! Anything to save a buck.

[LeondP]

This is one of the saddest episode of ACI I've ever seen. The pilots fought bravely all the time and had no chance. And all of this because of some missing oil on a single screw...

[dcs002]

@LeondP Also the only ACI where they feature an attorney, use the word "suffering," and family members who want someone to "pay." That stuff has no investigative value. It only stirs up pain in people who watch it. I'm very disappointed in ACI for this episode. Others have suffered equally or greater for even worse reasons. Imagine repeating this story, only there's a fire raging in the cabin because some racist politician wanted to stay in power. It happened.

[Pashatube]

This was a manslaughter (by definition), causing human death without intend. If AAL is not guilty of manslaughter then what are they guilty of? Lying, using improper procedures, cheating...... In any other case (eg. Conrad Murray case) such behavior causing death has resulted in manslaughter guilty verdict, except cases that involves high level Corporation like AAL.

[saintvictorie]

I just can't believe it!!!! Y do this airline companies or big firms always get away with all this killings of innocent lives!! If I go down the street n kill some 1, I am sure to get jailed for life or even death.. but this organizations always seemed to be advised or just a few penny fines!!! WE GOTTA START TAKING LIVES SERIOUS!!!! BTW thanks for this show.. I love it and it also teaches me lot about life.. RIP to all the souls of this flight and blessings to their loved ones.

[qpsklo]

- Looking deeper for causes, is deregulation of the airlines (1978) partly to blame? The fierce competition and penny pinching of the airline business environment surely is part of it.

- The terrible crash of American 191 in Chicago in 1979 was also due to maintenance crews taking short cuts. So, has the FAA been effective enough in preventing maintenance shortcuts? Maybe not.

[qpsklo]

A well-done documentary, but it didn't emphasize enough how much the passengers suffered.

[geosurfer1976]

could you imagine being in that thing as it friggen corkscrewed toward the Pacific? hats off to the courageous pilots. all because alaska maintenance didn't sufficiently lube the jackscrew. SMH.

[MicOt83]

I agree. From the moment an aircraft is designed, every single part has a life expectancy, which means some sort of repair and or replacement. When you extend those intervals, you remove the very safety net that we, as passengers rely on, to fly safely from A to B. On the other hand, it is the aircraft technicians' job to document any flaw, no matter how trivial, to the pilots, so they can plan their flight and contingency plan accordingly.

[AceDoubleG]

Hitting The Ocean At 250MPH, Upside Down! That's Harsh Mann! :/

[Simsyland]

I am disgusted that the man who blew the whistle on alaska airlines negligence lost his job, that is just wrong

[themuffinman12345]

Negligence isn't even the word to use here. If you don't take proper care of airplanes they WILL crash. This is manslaughter at the very least, if not second degree murder. The CEO should spend the rest of his life in jail.

[aerocrasher]

@themuffinman12345 Indeed.

[elparcero1220]

@themuffinman12345 yeah, but like good ol CEO's they'll bend the law (thank to Mr. Cash) and get away with it

[Wabbit0789]

@themuffinman12345 Think alot of countries have toughend their laws so this sort of thing happens less

[ramathorn2112]

@themuffinman12345 Not just the CEO but all of the executives on the board at Alaska should fry!! And whats with asshole companies ruining the careers and lives of whistleblowers that are trying to save lives?? That poor mechanic must of went thru hell knowing that had the company listened to him in the first place, nobody would have died. Another example of white collar toolbags ruining peoples lives.

[dcs002]

@ramathorn2112 Aircraft mechanics are licensed. That means they are individually accountable for their work. Each and every mechanic who knowingly signed off on inadequate work made the decision to sacrifice our safety to get the execs off their backs. An army of licensed mechanics went along with this crap. Where was their integrity? Out of the entire maintenance staff, why was there only one guy willing to stand up for our safety like he once promised he would? When has that happened before?

[BigCJFan]

@themuffinman12345 considering that Alaska was aware of the faulty maintenance and let the plane fly anyway that is premeditated and would chalk up to Murder in the first degree.

[jamesfawr]

If you put people in jail for it you would never have anyone help the NTSB for fear of going to jail. If people done talk we cant fix the problems we have. I have been a pilot for 20 years and have over 8,000 hours and no pilot will quit with out a fight to the end. You got to have the mant pepole that will talk... If they go to jail they will not talk,

[99percentatheist]

It's always about the money.

[malik13ist]

i dont get it, if alaska didnt make the new matinence, then why shouldent they have published it before the damn crash??? people need to start doing things they fear for the future.....

[Augusto0ol]

Companies , why all american companies just get fines and penalties ?? never shut dow or be closed by the goverment , everything is solved by a millionare fine. The company still fly and nobody was in jail for that but someone kill a person and you almost get a death penalty

[Epica124]

@Augusto0ol Because you have to look at the whole picture. For exmaple let's say there is a flaw in a plane made by boeing that they did not know about until it happened. Are you going to throw them in jail for that? Let's say a plane hits that the two people flying the plane did not see come and all about maybe 10 people die are you going to throw the CEO in jail? Let's say you have two pilots who do not put there plane in the right config before take off and only a little girl lives.

[Epica124]

@Augusto0ol Who do you throw in jail the CEO's for something the pilots did not do right? You have to look at the whole thing and see what the problem was.

[Augusto0ol]

@Epica124 Ok first of all you have a CEO that put pressure to maintenance to save money YES HE MUST GO TO JAIL, your argument is quiet stupid because I dont see the point of a plane hiting to people and throw to jail the CEO, first the pilot is going to be fired if he survived, second your arge that the pilot didnt make his job, again he is going to be fired and lost his job forever, This accident was because the administration was trying to save money even if the compromise safety jackass

[Epica124]

@Augusto0ol Again you yhave to look at the whole picture not just part of it. This is not all juas Alaska airlines. This also has to do with it being any MD-80. McDonnell Douglas should have put in a back up system to being with. But no let's not give faulit to McDonnell Douglas at all. Even though they are no longer around and have been kicked around enough.

[WHITECHILD2]

How to fix or do something what you are not trained to do or deel with! There should be training to everything, every possibly situation on that plane what might occure!

[WHITECHILD2]

@WHITECHILD2 Typical world! Big companies doesn't need to pay or be bunished after criminal act / acts! And probably those criminal act / acts is changed to mistakes or something!? What would it be in here in Finland if it would decide about Alaska Airlines that what kind of result it would has given or would give!? Maybe the same, because being big worldwide company and not the small one! I hope not, but in here Finland here is good politicans, but also those who pleazed bigger ones!

[WHITECHILD2]

@WHITECHILD2 Typical world! Big companies doesn't need to pay or be bunished after criminal act / acts! And probably those criminal act / acts is changed to mistakes or something!? What would it be in here in Finland if it would decide about Alaska Airlines that what kind of result it would has given or would give!? Maybe the same, because being big worldwide company and not the small one! I hope not, but in here Finland here is good politicans, but also those who pleazed bigger ones!

[WHITECHILD2]

Heavenly Father will revenge to all those greed and selfish and criminals and so on people trough His Only Son Jesus Christ! Jesus will be the Judge and order everone who hasn't die in Him to the Hell and Satan the Devil and his angels too! Forgive to yourself and others that Jesus and Father forgives you your sins! They, GREED PEOPLE and COMPANIES are true criminals or also and they should have payment (be in the prison etc) already! Today, not tomorrow! Today!

[WHITECHILD2]

Don't use anytihng, which is maid and / or used by criminal act / acts! Like don't bye anytihng which made in China or don't fly with Alaska Airlines, because of this acts, greedy, stupid, idiot, criminal, killing acts! Simpliest that! Buy only those products / things or fly etc where you can trust or has made in home countrie or in your countrie or in a better countrie, like you buy mobile phone which is made in China and then you have other one which is made in Finland, buy that (last) one!etc

[WHITECHILD2]

And also that AMD maker, should paid about this criminal act, to make an airplane which has risky part which might get broken too quickly in my opinnion! Alaska is maybe main responsible of this criminal act, but AMD maker is also if not as much but still quilty! I hope that theiy didn't die for nothing, but I believe more that they did or most of! I am sorry to say this, but I say the truth, but I hope I am wrong! God bless all those families and all of you in Jesus name!

[WHITECHILD2]

Don't support thise companies which try to take your money and put their own pocket! I have bye which made in China or other places! And I want to support Finland as much, so I have at least one product which is made in Finland, almost, because its battery is made in China and I would buy more products made in here Finland where I have born and still live! It is so sad, that they (big companies) rape China's and Intia's etc people to do cheap workd and take our jobs away! That is sin and wrong!

[WHITECHILD2]

Those people who make that kind of deceasons to take money from portant things is criminals, because they acts is wrong, sin! They should be paid today, not later their acts! And what will Jesus the Lord say to this people and to everone who hasn't die in Christ, Him! Heavenly Father will be very mad to those who are greed and selfish and unforgiven to their / itselfs and / or others! Forgive to yourself and others, that Heavenly Father and also Jesus His Only Son would forgive to you your sins!

[ourlife1424]

@WHITECHILD2 what?

[WHITECHILD2]

so sad. i hope that most of them if not all die in Christ but I think that all of them didn not die in Christ, like usually! all or most of us when dying wont die in Christ! because we are blind and deaf to Him, to God, like as to His Son's calling! we should give our lives to Him and rebent from our sins! if you don't die in Christ you wont go fo to the Heaven back to Heavenly Father! simpliest is that you rebent from your sins, askforgiveness and ask Him, Jesus to come to your Hart!

[WHITECHILD2]

@WHITECHILD2 i hope that at least one or few was on saved or were saved, when callinf Jesus to save them or him/her! but i think that none of them didn't call for help from God! but i hope i am wrong! because i which taht all of them did save by Jesus Christ, all though they die, but do in Heaven! that what i mean bt saving, that you or he / she / they are saved frin Hell! because that is only ment to be Satan's and His angels, not any humans! rebent before you die! becauce it is too late then!

[Kelebektepkisi]

I think there are two ways to prevent people or at least most of them from dying in plane crashes : 1- People should simply avoid at all costs flying an airline who neglects the safety rules till that airline is forced to bankrupt. 2- A bankrupt airline should never be allowed by the authorities to found an airline again under any other name. The irresponsible managers of those airlines should be forced out of the sector just as the whistle blower mechanic in this vid.

[madtoytle]

all i can say to you alaskan air execs who tried to ''save money'' while floating in your swimming pool in the back of your multi-million dollar house while fucking harlots behind your spouse's back.................PAY UP!

[blindflyer10]

I think something as important as a stabliser shouldn't be trouble shooted, but I feel the piolats did an amazing job. They never gave up thru the descent. I cant imagin the emotions they felt as they tryd saving that plane knowin their passengers were being thrown around and them doing everything to fix it, even up side down. I credit this flight crew, so brave and comunicated all the way down. This crash touched me

[BigCJFan]

I'm flying tomorrow but it's not on Alaska Airlines!

[acenace24]

Thumbs up if you get punished more for doing what is right instead of what is wrong and it pisses you off

[Firehead902]

Those are hardworking and straight forward pilots.

[alemoncada]

It's just you Lebowsky. The position of the engines is not critcal when it comes to plane crashes. What really matters is the design of the airplane,the cockpit layout,maintenance and human performance i.e. the experience and training of pilots. Planes don't just crash,there is a chain of events that brings down an aircraft and most of the time the things above mentioned are cullprits although in different percentages.

[DanielGlabinski]

Is it just me or do every plane with engines on the back and not the wings, appear more often in catastrophies?

[jaydogla]

damn those are good pilots

[misium]

As much as I am sorry for the loss of human life, I wish they had less of the passenger stories in the film. I am not interested in the private lives of the passengers. I am watching it for the details, the and the causes of the accident itself.

[pootcacti05]

Quick Question: As soon as the pilots found the problem, why didn't they try and land it it ASAP? instead of flying manually to the destination?

[261mylove]

@pootcacti05 The answer is long; prob was thought to be a runaway stabilizer, which, according to SOP, is considered "manageable". When it was realized there was a bigger prob, diversion was requested...but ATC did not grant it until 1557:16., to LAX. Initial dive at 1609:18. Capt. requests "block" (area) over the ocean to regain proper control; not over populated area...crash at 1620:57. See NTSB report, Analysis, sec. 2.2.5 Decision to Continue Flying Rather Than Return to PVR.

[BigCJFan]

It almost sounds like the narrators are saying that the pilots are at fault for continuing to try and get the stabilizer to work.

[261mylove]

@BigCJFan I think what they are trying to say is that in the extremely rare event that the jackscrew in the tailplane has no lube on it, working the motors will cause it to fail. Unfortunately, they don't mention that in more common situations, (inoperative stabilizer, runaway stabilizer, etc.) working the motors helps resolve the prob. There are two motors; one is a backup in case the other fails. If the stab. is inoperative, it makes sense to try both motors. So yeah, I see what you mean.

[261mylove]

@BigCJFan At least that's my take on it. You do have a point, though. You know how I feel about these pilots; the show needed to be longer, so more could be explained, in depth. Like the G-forces that one experiences when trying to fly an MD-83 upside down. Or the ATC's lack of attention to 261's prob, and the pressure put on the pilots to continue on to San Fran, rather than divert to LAX...approval to divert wasn't given until 23mins pre-impact. Anyway, how you doing? message me:)

[BigCJFan]

@261mylove I didn't know anyone on this flight but for some reason this has had an emotional affect on me. This particular tragedy has had me in tears bawling my eyes out. I however, can not explain why. Perhaps it is the fact that the pilots were absolutely amazing in this case and they NEVER gave up hope of being able to fix the problem. Even when the plane was inverted they never gave up hope. That and how greedy a co. Alaska Airlines is that something so simple cost 88 people their lives.

[261mylove]

@BigCJFan Thank you so much for your loving and compassionate comments! Back to the pilots...have you read the CVR comments, that were NOT on the ATC tape? The conversation between the pilots during the last minutes of flight? at 4:20.38, Capt. Thompson says, "gotta get it over again...at least upside down we're flyin'... They NEVER gave up. I can message it to you; its way too long to fit here.

[PhilipDK5800]

I'm a future aircraft mechanic, this show is a great inspiration on how NOT to do to.

[261mylove]

@PhilipDK5800 Wonderful comment, and I hope you become a wonderful mechanic. If only someone like you had been working on 261...but your work will save others in the future. Thanks!

[PhilipDK5800]

@261mylove Thanks :) tomorrow is my 3rd. day as a student. It's very interresting :)

[lkmofo]

not to be mean or anything but i hope they atleast died on impact and not drowned.

[261mylove]

@lkmofo Yes, they died immediately upon impact. But the initial dive would have most certainly caused injuries, and the extreme changes in the plane's position would have caused people to be thrown about the craft. This is the first crash in US history where families of the victims received compensation not just for the deaths of loved ones, but the suffering they endured as the out-of-control 261 was still flying. But yeah, they died on impact...and you aren't mean:)

[thomsonfly645k]

the people in this show dont give a thought to the pilots they should after all the flight crew were the ones trying to save that aircraft

[261mylove]

@thomsonfly645k I think an entire doc could be done about the flight crew; Capt. Thompson and F/O Tansky were more than just the heroic pilots of a doomed plane. Thank you for your comment!

[ODOMAN123]

this flight crew was a rare breed of human beings. rest in peace

[261mylove]

@ODOMAN123 Yes, they were. Thank you for your comment. It means a lot more than you know.

[TonyFirelli]

@ODOMAN123 what you mean

[nenblom]

I can't believe no criminal charges were ever brought. I guess money was more important than safety and people's lives!

[aerocrasher]

@SisterofConway dont worry, he doesnt seem to be human, he cant help himself from swearing. But hey, I am from the middle east, I dont think like that. I am not a terrorist. My dad is black.

[jfsa380]

isnt this the music to locked up abroad?

[jfsa380]

see what happens when you give many airlines nice stuff?

[261mylove]

@Seigu007 If the living don't come up with answers to technical failures, there will be a lot more of the dead.

[IamWayBeyondThePale]

@Seigu007 So humans AND cows are bad?

[tepadno]

39:52 Mary Schiavo get calls nearly every week from people asking "should I blow the whistle" and she actually always discourages them from doing so. I am not surprised that she's a FORMER inspector. I'm wondering what she would say to such a person if the information could save her or her relatives' lives...

[vigelic]

this video is stretched too much horizontally. uploader please keep original aspect.

[JH77771]

it was all because of the engineers and pilots

[Sukii]

wow! alaska airlines IS A BITCH! i feel sorry for everyone who died on board and the guy who send the secret report D; hope everything goes well.

[BoyScout1960]

I've flown on MD-80s a number of times and never experienced any problems. I'd fly on them anytime.

[78shava]

Its so sad-:)

[dachocolateprincess]

This is one of the saddest ACI's I have ever watched. Thank you for the upload as to my knowledge this doesn't air in the United States.

[TheDevineBeing]

the pilots should of done a barrell roll

[Wabbit0789]

I can't believe they were trying to crash land that plane upside down :o RIP

Those pilots tried everything, even in the last seconds !

[hannahrenz]

WTF..! MICROSOFT!!! REALLY????! WOOOW...!!

[cjcuties158]

Oh cool blame Alaska . When it was just the ripe of plane. Oh and guess what they don't fly them any more other airlines do, oh and that's alaskas only crash, just look at other airlines they've had way worse crashes, so be who you are and blame Alaska airlines when they didn't even make the plane

[261mylove]

@cjcuties158 The crash of flight 261 was caused by prolonged maintenance schedules which allowed the jackscrew in the tail assembly to go without being greased to the point where all the threads stripped, resulting in loss of control of the tail. Had the jackscrew been properly maintained, 261 would have been just fine. The problem WAS Alaska, and their maintenance program. I suggest you read the NTSB report, Analysis sec. 2.3.6 Insufficient Lubrication of the Jackscrew Assembly

[261mylove]

@cjcuties158 Further, I also suggest reading sec. 2.3.6.2 of the NTSB report, Alaska Airlines' Lubrication Interval Extension.  Even with the loss I suffered, I would still fly on a properly maintained MD-80 series aircraft. Get a copy of the NTSB report. Read it. You'll figure it out.

[toutatis12]

@cjcuties158 Alaska didn't maintain the aircraft properly, they are entirely at fault. All to save money by cutting corners. However, I would would like to see a redundant system installed for such a critical component.

[ReCkLeSsErr0r]

Rest In Peace for all the 88 victims. I am never going to fly alaska airlines again.

[aerocrasher]

@ReCkLeSsErr0r I think its changed by now but I still wouldn't trust Alaska airlines. They struggled even to give a proper apology for this crash.

[ReCkLeSsErr0r]

@aerocrasher

Yeah, the service was terrible. Heck, I may never go on an md-80 again!

[261mylove]

@ReCkLeSsErr0r Alaska no longer flies any of the MD-80 series planes. I don't know about other airlines. This accident was caused by horrifically improperly maintained planes - not any inherent flaws in the MD-80 series planes themselves. No matter how "good" a plane is, improper maintenance will bring it down every time. There are people who belong in jail for this!

[aerocrasher]

@261mylove indeed people should go to jail for this.

[thomsonfly645k]

@aerocrasher those engineers essentially mudered 88 people just to keep the costs down.

[JH77771]

@aerocrasher both of you are right

[JH77771]

@ReCkLeSsErr0r both of you are right

[nickelfilling1]

@ReCkLeSsErr0r You can't just blame it on the airline industrie or its pilots and never go on the airline again. If you look at the facts, American Airlines has had serveral accidents and thousands of people still go on American Airlines. You shoud'nt blame it on the airline or the pilots. You should blame it on the airplane manufacturer. That plane looks like it was manufacted by McDonnell Douglas. That's when you blame it on the airplane manufacturer. If it were the pilots that did...........

[robertpicardo]

@nickelfilling1 i agree with the fact that the horizontal stabilizer being a single point of failure is a bad design, but alaska half assed the maintenance, and the pilots were stupid for fucking with it. IMO, Alaska is at fault for not following manufacturer guidelines. The pilots should have declared an emergency and landed as soon as they realized there was a problem.

[nickelfilling1]

@ReCkLeSsErr0r a pilot error or did it on purpose THEN THAT'S when you stop flying with the airline. But the narrator said it was WEAKNESS that brought the plane down. Not the pilots. So that means you can still fly with the airline but not on the planes that look the same as this plane. But I'm sure McDonnell Douglas fixed the fault so you're safe to fly with Alaska Airlines.

[robertpicardo]

@nickelfilling1 Actually I changed my mind. You're right, the design is horrible and it's MD's fault.

[261mylove]

@robertpicardo You can't build in redundancies for every part of an aircraft. The plane would never get off the ground. Alaska maintenance workers failed to grease the jackscrew; Alaska extended maintenance checks well beyond what was reasonable. During a failure like the one incurred by 261, pilots are trained to do EVERYTHING to try and save the craft. There is no SOP for "ungreased jackscrew leading to catastrophic horizontal stabilizer failure" .

[robertpicardo]

@261mylove I'm not bashing the pilots in any way. I just think if they were aware of the design, the decision to run both electric motors at the same time was not wise. With the information we have now, that is obvious. It's the job of an aircraft manufacturer to ask "what if" about every single part of the plane. Even strict and frequent maintenance can't always replace that. It doesn't have to be redundant, but it should at least be failsafe. Reasonable?

[261mylove]

@robertpicardo well, it isn't that simple. Failsafe is sort of impossible w/o a backup. And like in life, the "what if" questions are infinite - no plane would ever fly if one attempted to come up with, and answer, every "what if". Further, MD did know about the problem, and gave guidelines as to how to avoid it. (see the NTSB report, sec 1.6.3.3.4.2 Manufacturer-Recommended End Play Check Intervals) This was ignored by Alaska. Space is short here, please visit my channel to discuss.

[261mylove]

@robertpicardo And thank you for taking an interest in Flight 261; our loved ones live only in our memories now, (and hopefully in an after-life, but I digress) and it is always nice to know others are thinking about this tragedy, and caring about it, 11 years later.

[261mylove]

@261mylove BTW, being aware of the design would not have saved 261. MANY things can cause problems with horizontal stability; many of these problems are solved by using the secondary, "backup" motor. And since "ungreased jackscrew" mimics the behavior of more common problems, where SOP is to try both motors, coupled with the fact that there is no way to diagnose "ungreased jeckscrew" mid-flight, common sense says to follow SOP.

[toutatis12]

@261mylove Agree with this.

[261mylove]

@robertpicardo Lastly, what pilot is going to immediately conclude that any problem is improper maintenance? Pilots will look for more plausible causes first; in most cases of T-tail horizontal stab trim problems, working with both motors enables more control over the craft. Pilots know that ANY part of a plane (from software to the electrical system to the hydraulics) can fail; but only EXTREMELY rarely does the "no lube on the jackscrew" failure occur. In fact, Its only happened once...

[toutatis12]

@261mylove The jackscrew was a very poor design for a critical flight surface. No fail safe. Alaska was very much at fault for extending maintenance schedules and falsifying records.

[261mylove]

@robertpicardo Further, the pilots were in an impossible situation. You cannot land any conventional aircraft w/o being able to maintain a proper horizontal position. The pilots knew this, and tried to regain control of the craft over water so as no to injure anyone on the ground, in the event stabilization became impossible. (As it obviously did). Capt. Thompson and F/O Tansky were 2 of the best pilots out there. That they fought to the bitter end is a testament to the heroism of these men!

[nickelfilling1]

@robertpicardo Actually I made a mistake. After I did some more research on the flight I found out that it was not McDonnell Douglas that was the problem, it was improper maintenance that led to mechanical failure which then led to the accident. So it was not McDonell Douglas's fault but it was (Like most people say.) Alaska Airline's fault for improper maintenance and fail for the jackscrew. But the pilots did all they can to save the plane and their passengers so I do thank them.

[nickelfilling1]

@robertpicardo And it's probably why people don't trust Alaska Airlines anymore. But at least Alaska Airlines is not at the edge of bankrupcy. And those pilots again truly deserve a true award!! For do all they can and fight untill the end is nothing that alot of people can do. So it's a thank you to them and that Alaska Airlines never have another accident!!

[tsosoloso222]

Thank you earocrasher!! I love this show, even though it is sad.

[aerocrasher]

@tsosoloso222 :-)

[261mylove]

Thank you for doing this! Those who died on flight 261 should never be forgotten; thank you for dedicating this to the 88 people who died. All are loved and missed, and the world is a lesser place because of their deaths. God bless you for honoring their memory!

[nickelfilling1]

@261mylove Man, you really are into this flight. Good for you. God bless the victims of the flight and may God bless you for preserveing their memory!!

[MyTube22T]

Great! Thanks.

[aerocrasher]

@MyTube22T Your welcome, I deleted the andes video by accident I have reuploaded it!

[MyTube22T]

@aerocrasher I watched it. Very interesting indeed. Thanks for your work.

[aerocrasher]

@MyTube22T your welcome once again!