I think it is quite clear from those testimonies what was the framework in which all those atrocities occurred. it isnt a unique american phenomenon. The draftees were detached from home, thrown into a extremely violent and to them unknown environment and went along with the flow of violence. All this ' we just took them for inferior' etc is just a way to balance for extreme cognitive dissonance. Back home in their trusted enviroment they felt estranged and rejected by society at large & woke up
Religion have nothing to do with this war, just anti communism policy that USA had. Dont blame all christians from what one country did. You are crying how christians are insulting islam which has more violent history than christianity have, and then you insult christianity?
wow i want to kill these bastards and im american.im a muslim. this what we fight against. why are they all white.now i know why they say they are the devil. white people are not the devil, but they are the most arragant race in the world. because they gave themselves to the world. so sad. i have white associates, but they never act like that to me. who knows how they act in private.?ALLAH knows best
Mr..LONOVIK. first I want to know from you who told all western countries are Christianity countries...? they don't have any qualification to be a Christan. The HOLLY BIBLE told "love every one".... who have or kill the peoples those persons are not Christan.... they are DEVILS
Take one Example: if one person come to your house and told I am your brother.....are you accept..? why you dont accept....? In the same manner Christianity also..... ok please understand the god's mind
@pulikandlalokesh usa is a christian country no matter what you say. it excepts it but doesnt really except islam. it belittles jews and other faiths. it is a christian country. it has a strategy its been using for a long time. and its called democracy. most people that wanted to go over and destroy Afghanistan are christians. ur church is like the demacracy too. it excepts dating. homosexuality. and other things ur government excepts. the church added it to there way of life. so whats the diff
MAN! People are so ignorant,why they don't understand that Christian countries in West in the name of freedom and democracy are just trying to sweep away other cultures,religions,powers and prosperity. Islam is not evil nor is it violent,it's misunderstood by CHRISTIANS(the blind and brainwashed ones)open ur eyes because there's still time for the general Christians to stop the atrocities their countries are doing. Invading middle east and then gaining oil and power is what the west wants!
@mrahman377 Did you know that USA is not the whole west? USA wants to secure their oil, but most of other western countries have nothing to do with invading middle east.
@Pvjinflight I know that and I admit I was wrong to say the whole west is bad. But to you westerners, even I am a westerner myself technically, AMERICA is a very bad representation to the Peaceful Western Countries as what you said is true "other western countries have nothing to do with invading middle east"
the other part (my opinion) says he had and shows him via flashbackz what he is respnosible for..
u r trying 2 defend a position that is not defendable and use reasonz that r just wrong (c pointz 1-4 e.g.).. help him by telling him that he does´d have 2 fight his insight but 2 surrender 2 admitting that he did something wrong without any "if" or "but".. should reduce his inner struggle and give him inna peace.. @ least it is (again) his and also your decision of course..
a cild with 17? in germany u r of full age with 18..
having no arguments anymore u try 2 blame the messanger 2 ignore the message.. and this blame is also wrong as i stated above..
keep on livin in your dreamworld of the god father who had no choice.. sorry but this is moral bancrupt as u say @ least: he acted moraly ok with beeing part of the murdererz machine as going 2 canada was 2 mch effort for him..
Like I said, you have no understanding of anything I have said, so it is a waste. I barely even talk to my father. Also, I never think he is a God. I think he is pretty stupid. He's not too bright.
what 2 understand? that u r a child with 17? that on the 1 hand travelling 2 canada is impossible but going 2 nam for killing pplz is no prob? that deserting is impossible as the partenz could b embarresed?
well with these reasonz also the red khmer, the ss etc did ok.. thats your point of state - i understand.. by the way: there were even jung men in the kkk - and if they did not lynch negros their parent may b embarrased, 2.. so what they did should have been also ok, right?
@amberview30 this is how you view ur father? you gotta be from the west. only westerners veiw there parents as stupid. wow. if it wasnt for ur father you wouldnt be hear idiot. dont disrespect my human brother and im a muslim and i never disrespect my father. ur people are too arrogant. you have no respect for anything wow
@imreadyyo26 You really don't know anything about me or my father. I love him, but I know when someone is ignorant and doesn't want to learn anything. BTW, I'd be the one giving you respect while my father would think you are a terrorist just because he is ignorant of what being a muslim is. I have an accurate view of who my father is and just because he had sex with my mother doesn't make him the best man in the world.
how do you know he even killed anyone? Not that he can really be blamed for it, if he did. You see when you are drafted you have no choice but to do what they tell you to do.
anyhow: u have always a choise.. in this particular case:
he could have deserted like many americans did !!!
i do not believe in heroes - but these persons who risked their freedom for not killing others and not beeing killed r more impressing for me than pplz who travel 10.000 miles 2 kill pplz who fought for their rights(elections)/pplz..
so i blame every single us soldier who was in vietnam for doing what they did !!!
for one, I said I felt sorry for him in the first comment, but people like you think I called him a hero. Also, perhaps a scared 17 year old doesn't know what to do in that situation. Also, not all people that were in the military fought while they were there. There were medics, etc. Also, the correct spelling is choice. And if you ever find yourself drafted go ahead and desert and see what happens to you and your family.
i do not care if pplz killed others directly or supported the murderers.. @ least they were all parts of the machine that had only 1 aim: killing..
there were enough young men who deserted / did not go 2 military.. these "scared 17 year" did not only suffer cause of the law but also cause of proud 17 year old who thought they would b the better americans as they went 2 war for getting the 1st kill on the block..
I don't remember saying anything about heroes. I said that "the poor guy has nightmares and flashbacks." He is not a smart guy now at 62, I really doubt he was too bright when he was 17. He isn't proud. He didn't have enough money to avoid the draft, like college. You dont know because you were never in that situation.I feel compassion for those harmed by war, especially innocent people who weren't fighting but just trying to live their lives. It was pointless.
i do not have 2 b in the situation 2 judge it: there were enough hippies who did not go 2 war but escaped 2 canada e.g.
what innocent pplz in the us-imperialisitc war? i just c the viet civilianz who had no chance against the usa murderers..
and 2 draw a picture of some1 who was just scared and did have @ no point of time feelinx like `1st kill on the block` or `kill goox` is not very realistic.. like 3rd reich: afterwards nobody supported hitler - while history shows it was different..
The Vietnamese were the innocents I was speaking of. You know I only had 500 characters and can't spell everything out for you. You are just antagonistic. What would you like me to do, drive over 500 miles and beat the crap out of my dad for it? What the heck do you want?
hey man - stay cool.. we r just discussing the question how 2 c / judge the behaviour of those who went 2 nam.. u claimed "have no choice but to do what they tell" - i say pplz had a choice and those who did not take it but decided for themself 2 go 2 nam and b part of an imperiaisitc war, violating internatonal law and killing civilianz r not the poor guys.. thats all.. so @ least it is just a discussion about moral implications of the acting of those who fought.. where is your prob?
I'm a woman not a man. Also, it is hard to judge since I wasn't there. Also, I know for a fact he didn't decide to go and tried to get out of it. So, there is my point. It's pointless to argue about something we already agree on. The only thing you don't agree is having sympathy for my own father. I do have a lot more sympathy for the innocents like I said. I also didn't say that all had no choice. I am sure there are some who signed up. My father didn't though.
i wasn´t in wwII as a soldier in the ss neither - but i can judge it as i know the facts..
i don´t know your father - mayb he is a sympathic man.. but that is not the question in our discussion.. our main question was your thesis: "when you are drafted you have no choice but to do what they tell".. as there were pplz who deserted, went 2 canada etc. u can c that their was a choice.. also these pplz were the bad guys for majority of the usa-population as they were not "patriotic" enough..
You have a choice when you are drafted...ruin your life and the life of your family or you just ruin your life. You pick one. My father married my mother right before he went over there. 1 way to try to dodge the draft is to become a recent father. Well, unfortunately, it took them eight years to finally have my sister and then 8 more years to have me. Bad luck. You go to jail/get a record if you draft dodge illegally. It's just like getting caught w/ other crimes.
Another problem with the Canada theory is that my father was dirt poor, the son of a peddler. That's a person who basically yells "apple" or whatever as walking down the street to sell something. Not to mention the embarrassment. He also had an 8th grade education and still only has an 8th grade education + a GED. Sorry, the "draft dodgers" you hear about didn't draft dodge illegally. They used legal means that weren't available to my pop.
lots of draft dodgers discerped the conscription order and lived illigal in the states or went 2 canada.. and 2 tell u the truth: i dare 2 doubt that u had lesser chances 2 live your life in canada than in the usa.. i mean canada is neither a 3rd world country nor it is really far away - so where is your point?
right - u had a choice.. risking your common life in the usa for your moral values and livin a common life in canda or following the drawt 2 kill innocent civilianz.
there were enough americanz who followed their conscience so it would b wrong 2 say that all americanz went the easy way and decided 2 kill vietnamese.. that was a reason why the war was ended as these personz stood up against tyranny of the government.. as enough pplz did so later on there was an amnesty for all who quit..
And I was wrong. My sister was conceived 4 years after they started trying. It was a typo. I was 8 years after she was born though which doesn't really matter as they weren't trying for me and there was no danger of him being drafted again at that point.
The point is. They tried doing things that would keep him from going, but it didn't work. Going to Canada and other countries takes $. Also, you are right if at that time he had tried to dodge it by doing something illegal, he would have embarrassed himself and his family. And he can't change anything he has done now. No one knew there would be any amnesty for those who ran from the requirement, so that's not a valid argument.
4. rather beeing part of the moral loserz than 2 "embarrasse" his parentz shows what moral he followed..
so: face it girl: he decided rather 2 b part of the inhuman and immoral site than @ the right side.. mayb he sufferz for this decision even today cause of flashbacks etc.. what might happen in his brain is xactly what we do rigght here: 1 part of him (your position) is telling him that in a way his decision was ok as he had no other chances..
I think it is quite clear from those testimonies what was the framework in which all those atrocities occurred. it isnt a unique american phenomenon. The draftees were detached from home, thrown into a extremely violent and to them unknown environment and went along with the flow of violence. All this ' we just took them for inferior' etc is just a way to balance for extreme cognitive dissonance. Back home in their trusted enviroment they felt estranged and rejected by society at large & woke up
TheMrBennito 10 months ago
Oneday I want to fuck these hairy crackers monkeys, oneday.
ToiYeuDatNuocCuaMinh 1 year ago
Religion have nothing to do with this war, just anti communism policy that USA had. Dont blame all christians from what one country did. You are crying how christians are insulting islam which has more violent history than christianity have, and then you insult christianity?
Pvjinflight 1 year ago
wow i want to kill these bastards and im american.im a muslim. this what we fight against. why are they all white.now i know why they say they are the devil. white people are not the devil, but they are the most arragant race in the world. because they gave themselves to the world. so sad. i have white associates, but they never act like that to me. who knows how they act in private.?ALLAH knows best
imreadyyo26 1 year ago
Mr..LONOVIK. first I want to know from you who told all western countries are Christianity countries...? they don't have any qualification to be a Christan. The HOLLY BIBLE told "love every one".... who have or kill the peoples those persons are not Christan.... they are DEVILS
Take one Example: if one person come to your house and told I am your brother.....are you accept..? why you dont accept....? In the same manner Christianity also..... ok please understand the god's mind
pulikandlalokesh 1 year ago
@pulikandlalokesh usa is a christian country no matter what you say. it excepts it but doesnt really except islam. it belittles jews and other faiths. it is a christian country. it has a strategy its been using for a long time. and its called democracy. most people that wanted to go over and destroy Afghanistan are christians. ur church is like the demacracy too. it excepts dating. homosexuality. and other things ur government excepts. the church added it to there way of life. so whats the diff
imreadyyo26 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
fucking chiristians fucking jesus fucking fachism west fucking cross
NAMENAMESS 2 years ago
MAN! People are so ignorant,why they don't understand that Christian countries in West in the name of freedom and democracy are just trying to sweep away other cultures,religions,powers and prosperity. Islam is not evil nor is it violent,it's misunderstood by CHRISTIANS(the blind and brainwashed ones)open ur eyes because there's still time for the general Christians to stop the atrocities their countries are doing. Invading middle east and then gaining oil and power is what the west wants!
mrahman377 2 years ago
@mrahman377 Did you know that USA is not the whole west? USA wants to secure their oil, but most of other western countries have nothing to do with invading middle east.
Pvjinflight 1 year ago
@Pvjinflight I know that and I admit I was wrong to say the whole west is bad. But to you westerners, even I am a westerner myself technically, AMERICA is a very bad representation to the Peaceful Western Countries as what you said is true "other western countries have nothing to do with invading middle east"
mrahman377 1 year ago
Nooooooooooooooooooo
i have never seen Hoax in Utube.Did you??????????????
belakziz1 2 years ago
the other part (my opinion) says he had and shows him via flashbackz what he is respnosible for..
u r trying 2 defend a position that is not defendable and use reasonz that r just wrong (c pointz 1-4 e.g.).. help him by telling him that he does´d have 2 fight his insight but 2 surrender 2 admitting that he did something wrong without any "if" or "but".. should reduce his inner struggle and give him inna peace.. @ least it is (again) his and also your decision of course..
abrockkalypse 3 years ago
whatever... and that's all I have to say to someone who has no empathy for a child.
amberview30 3 years ago
a cild with 17? in germany u r of full age with 18..
having no arguments anymore u try 2 blame the messanger 2 ignore the message.. and this blame is also wrong as i stated above..
keep on livin in your dreamworld of the god father who had no choice.. sorry but this is moral bancrupt as u say @ least: he acted moraly ok with beeing part of the murdererz machine as going 2 canada was 2 mch effort for him..
abrockkalypse 3 years ago
Like I said, you have no understanding of anything I have said, so it is a waste. I barely even talk to my father. Also, I never think he is a God. I think he is pretty stupid. He's not too bright.
amberview30 3 years ago
what 2 understand? that u r a child with 17? that on the 1 hand travelling 2 canada is impossible but going 2 nam for killing pplz is no prob? that deserting is impossible as the partenz could b embarresed?
well with these reasonz also the red khmer, the ss etc did ok.. thats your point of state - i understand.. by the way: there were even jung men in the kkk - and if they did not lynch negros their parent may b embarrased, 2.. so what they did should have been also ok, right?
abrockkalypse 3 years ago
@amberview30 this is how you view ur father? you gotta be from the west. only westerners veiw there parents as stupid. wow. if it wasnt for ur father you wouldnt be hear idiot. dont disrespect my human brother and im a muslim and i never disrespect my father. ur people are too arrogant. you have no respect for anything wow
imreadyyo26 1 year ago
@imreadyyo26 You really don't know anything about me or my father. I love him, but I know when someone is ignorant and doesn't want to learn anything. BTW, I'd be the one giving you respect while my father would think you are a terrorist just because he is ignorant of what being a muslim is. I have an accurate view of who my father is and just because he had sex with my mother doesn't make him the best man in the world.
amberview30 1 year ago
Comment removed
amberview30 3 years ago
even more poor r the pplz he killed right there..
abrockkalypse 3 years ago
how do you know he even killed anyone? Not that he can really be blamed for it, if he did. You see when you are drafted you have no choice but to do what they tell you to do.
amberview30 3 years ago
why did u delete your starting comment?
anyhow: u have always a choise.. in this particular case:
he could have deserted like many americans did !!!
i do not believe in heroes - but these persons who risked their freedom for not killing others and not beeing killed r more impressing for me than pplz who travel 10.000 miles 2 kill pplz who fought for their rights(elections)/pplz..
so i blame every single us soldier who was in vietnam for doing what they did !!!
abrockkalypse 3 years ago
for one, I said I felt sorry for him in the first comment, but people like you think I called him a hero. Also, perhaps a scared 17 year old doesn't know what to do in that situation. Also, not all people that were in the military fought while they were there. There were medics, etc. Also, the correct spelling is choice. And if you ever find yourself drafted go ahead and desert and see what happens to you and your family.
amberview30 3 years ago
u wrote about heroes - i refered 2 that..
i do not care if pplz killed others directly or supported the murderers.. @ least they were all parts of the machine that had only 1 aim: killing..
there were enough young men who deserted / did not go 2 military.. these "scared 17 year" did not only suffer cause of the law but also cause of proud 17 year old who thought they would b the better americans as they went 2 war for getting the 1st kill on the block..
thanx for correcting "choice"
abrockkalypse 3 years ago
I don't remember saying anything about heroes. I said that "the poor guy has nightmares and flashbacks." He is not a smart guy now at 62, I really doubt he was too bright when he was 17. He isn't proud. He didn't have enough money to avoid the draft, like college. You dont know because you were never in that situation.I feel compassion for those harmed by war, especially innocent people who weren't fighting but just trying to live their lives. It was pointless.
amberview30 3 years ago
i do not have 2 b in the situation 2 judge it: there were enough hippies who did not go 2 war but escaped 2 canada e.g.
what innocent pplz in the us-imperialisitc war? i just c the viet civilianz who had no chance against the usa murderers..
and 2 draw a picture of some1 who was just scared and did have @ no point of time feelinx like `1st kill on the block` or `kill goox` is not very realistic.. like 3rd reich: afterwards nobody supported hitler - while history shows it was different..
abrockkalypse 3 years ago
The Vietnamese were the innocents I was speaking of. You know I only had 500 characters and can't spell everything out for you. You are just antagonistic. What would you like me to do, drive over 500 miles and beat the crap out of my dad for it? What the heck do you want?
amberview30 3 years ago
hey man - stay cool.. we r just discussing the question how 2 c / judge the behaviour of those who went 2 nam.. u claimed "have no choice but to do what they tell" - i say pplz had a choice and those who did not take it but decided for themself 2 go 2 nam and b part of an imperiaisitc war, violating internatonal law and killing civilianz r not the poor guys.. thats all.. so @ least it is just a discussion about moral implications of the acting of those who fought.. where is your prob?
abrockkalypse 3 years ago
I'm a woman not a man. Also, it is hard to judge since I wasn't there. Also, I know for a fact he didn't decide to go and tried to get out of it. So, there is my point. It's pointless to argue about something we already agree on. The only thing you don't agree is having sympathy for my own father. I do have a lot more sympathy for the innocents like I said. I also didn't say that all had no choice. I am sure there are some who signed up. My father didn't though.
amberview30 3 years ago
i wasn´t in wwII as a soldier in the ss neither - but i can judge it as i know the facts..
i don´t know your father - mayb he is a sympathic man.. but that is not the question in our discussion.. our main question was your thesis: "when you are drafted you have no choice but to do what they tell".. as there were pplz who deserted, went 2 canada etc. u can c that their was a choice.. also these pplz were the bad guys for majority of the usa-population as they were not "patriotic" enough..
abrockkalypse 3 years ago
You have a choice when you are drafted...ruin your life and the life of your family or you just ruin your life. You pick one. My father married my mother right before he went over there. 1 way to try to dodge the draft is to become a recent father. Well, unfortunately, it took them eight years to finally have my sister and then 8 more years to have me. Bad luck. You go to jail/get a record if you draft dodge illegally. It's just like getting caught w/ other crimes.
amberview30 3 years ago
Another problem with the Canada theory is that my father was dirt poor, the son of a peddler. That's a person who basically yells "apple" or whatever as walking down the street to sell something. Not to mention the embarrassment. He also had an 8th grade education and still only has an 8th grade education + a GED. Sorry, the "draft dodgers" you hear about didn't draft dodge illegally. They used legal means that weren't available to my pop.
amberview30 3 years ago
lots of draft dodgers discerped the conscription order and lived illigal in the states or went 2 canada.. and 2 tell u the truth: i dare 2 doubt that u had lesser chances 2 live your life in canada than in the usa.. i mean canada is neither a 3rd world country nor it is really far away - so where is your point?
abrockkalypse 3 years ago
right - u had a choice.. risking your common life in the usa for your moral values and livin a common life in canda or following the drawt 2 kill innocent civilianz.
there were enough americanz who followed their conscience so it would b wrong 2 say that all americanz went the easy way and decided 2 kill vietnamese.. that was a reason why the war was ended as these personz stood up against tyranny of the government.. as enough pplz did so later on there was an amnesty for all who quit..
abrockkalypse 3 years ago
And I was wrong. My sister was conceived 4 years after they started trying. It was a typo. I was 8 years after she was born though which doesn't really matter as they weren't trying for me and there was no danger of him being drafted again at that point.
amberview30 3 years ago
so?
abrockkalypse 3 years ago
The point is. They tried doing things that would keep him from going, but it didn't work. Going to Canada and other countries takes $. Also, you are right if at that time he had tried to dodge it by doing something illegal, he would have embarrassed himself and his family. And he can't change anything he has done now. No one knew there would be any amnesty for those who ran from the requirement, so that's not a valid argument.
amberview30 3 years ago
4. rather beeing part of the moral loserz than 2 "embarrasse" his parentz shows what moral he followed..
so: face it girl: he decided rather 2 b part of the inhuman and immoral site than @ the right side.. mayb he sufferz for this decision even today cause of flashbacks etc.. what might happen in his brain is xactly what we do rigght here: 1 part of him (your position) is telling him that in a way his decision was ok as he had no other chances..
abrockkalypse 3 years ago
These guys are nothing but actors. This video is a hoax.
Dajuhan 3 years ago
Daj I am 48, and remember this its not a hoax.
Clemburke1111 3 years ago