@paulwheaton12 Thank you for everything: Reply, video, forums... all. Moving to Norway and will be needing all your good advice at some point. Want to grow some food and get a rocket stove in the house when I finally buy a house. Have to find an alternative or cosmetics for the cob and barrel though. Want to keep it all looking Ikea. Forgive me.
Tomatoes in December, Thermal mass, knocking down trees because they're in the way or south? and :54 apparently rocket mass...Sir, This is sexual and reckless.
Oops correction to my last comment @aetherfax not antherfax p.s. stfuomfg p.p.s. being an ass to you would feed my need to be an ass much better, prepare for a whole week of me being asinine to you under 30ish different accounts.
@Antherfax because the quality was So bad I didn't hear him say it, more over because of the lack of DOING it. Moreover being an ass is makes me feel good I was neglected and unloved my whole life and revel in making absolute strangers annoyed by my petty And meaningless comments.
Im sure at least ONE of you hippies has access to some kind of post production audio.... I can't understand shit being said for almost half of this video....
@Soligoth - The guy addressed that during the video, and evidently they /do/ have the ability to dub over the audio as the guy was speaking in the end. Why do you feel like you have to be ass over the internet? =\
Funny thing is you can do this virtually with all clay, the design of the "rocket stove/heater" is a rather Olllllllld design used by the mexo-americans
i wonder if you could use the same loop system and thermal mass with something like the solar heaters using cans painted black. Im not sure what that is called except solar heaters lol.
@greatruaha1 > What is the point of your message??
...that ernie and erica are the shit and so is ianto's book. damon and fred are pretty awesome, too. :grin: (seriously. search here for 'institutional rocket stove'. be amazed. be very amazed.)
@AZStony Having worked in the combustion technology field for 43 years I think I just may have a few clues. It's emissions are no different to any other wood fire, there's absolutely no "new" principles at work here. in fact those being used are not even used very well.
It's just a downdraft/crossdraft wood fire connected to a potential soot and creosote trap, that will one day turn into a noxious smoke and soot belching chimney fire.
@ozzirt If you've not built one and tested it, you're just another know-it-all expert. Definition of an expert? Ex is a has-been and a spurt is a leak under pressure. You won your troll badge too.
@AZStony I don't need to make one , as it's been done a thousand (possibly million) times before.
If you are stupid enough to stick your head in the fire and it burns you, you don't need to keep repeating it to find the same answer.
I can explain it a hundred times, what I CAN'T do is give idiots the intelligence to understand what's being said. It's such a pity that of your three years of formal education you never made it out of first grade.
Quick question: Seeing as how, at operating temperature, the exhaust is mostly comprised of warm, moist air and CO2, is there any reason not to put a T on the outlet and return the exhaust to the greenhouse once the heater is up to temp? It seems to me that the plants would certainly appreciate that kind of atmosphere. I understand that a fresh air intake directed at the inlet would be needed to maintain O2 levels.
@DeadlyDad I'm pretty sure that the experts on this stuff aren't watching these comments anymore. You might try the "alternative energy" forum at permies.
I sure hope Im not the first to mention the dangers of using galvanized ductwork with actual heat. Metal fume fever. I know im being a little over pre cautious with how you are setup but its something to consider when putting a group of hippies around a pipe waiting for the "smoke" to stop. Love the ingenuity and will be attempting one myself in my well/ animal house.
Better way is too lay copper pipe tubes running thru poured concrete, and run solar heated water thu. No ash blockage, it builds up quick. More like a car radiator than an exhaust....
I am so excited by this innovation! I can't wait to get copies of both these books and get my own heated earth-sheltered greenhouse set up. However, I am hoping I might get an answer to one question that occurs to me while I wait for these books to arrive. My question is: since I live in an area without a lot of clay deposits, might it work to use concrete in place of the cob in the construction of the rocket heater? If not, why? Thank you in advance! Most excellent video!
I am so excited by this innovation! I can't wait to get copies of both these books and get my own heated earth-sheltered greenhouse set up. However, I am hoping I might get an answer to one question that occurs to me while I wait for these books to arrive. My question is: since I live in an area without a lot of clay deposits, might it work to use concrete in place of the cob in the construction of the rocket heater? If not, why? Thank you in advance! Most excellent video!
I've watch some of your other vids and like them. But, there is sometimes to much wind niose and it is hard to hear. Don't know what causes that? I did like the vid of Cobville you did, Now I have to go visit the place. I was suprised to see it on the rainny side of the Cascades. I thought it rained to muck for that kind of construction.
This is a great video showing you how to build, use and maintain a fuel efficient wood-fired heater out of inexpensive materials and components. This type of heater is ideally suited to heating living spaces,
shops and greenhouses. It is similar to a Russian or Finnish masonry heater in that the fire in the rocket stove burns hot and fast, heating a large thermal mass or heat sink that retains heat and delivers it to a living space for many hours or even days.
could you create this same situation without the barrel, and bury the 8 inch pipe 12 inches underground underneath a house. with the crawlspaces sealed up couldnt the radiant heat keep my house very warm if I have a well insulated home?. I am willing to try this in warmer weather but would love your experienced opinion on the matter.
The more I see these things being built, the more I want to build one! Now I just need to see a little more about insulating the heat riser and setting the barrel and I'll feel like all the pieces of the puzzle will be in place! Thanks for posting this!
No problem Erica and I are teachers and researchers Its not our job to promote an agenda, its our job to give you the information so you can make an informed decision.
We enjoy the questions; thank you ALL for asking them.
the base mix right around the hot parts has no straw. in the vid you also dont see the one inch layer of perlite clay mix that is around the burn tunnel. the outer layer should never get to a temp that will ignite. if it does the straw in the mix will just burn out on the surface and turn to charcoal in the mix.
I think paul has some of our stove. several of the barrels at cobville have been oiled, and if you look for "ernieanderica" our website has links to our picture albums.
the barrel yes it works just fine. the cob nope and i would not even try it. sealing the cob with a petroleum product or cement is not a good thing. the cob needs to breath or it will retain water and eventually melt. so far every one who has disregarded the warning of not mixing media without lots of experiance has had problems. question is why paint it? do a light sanding and wipe it down with canola or corn oil and fire it. just like a cast iron pan; season it to a nice none stick black
I am speaking about the barrel. if you want the cob to be black use an earthen plaster and a black iron oxide pigment (you can get black iron oxide from a masonry supply for coloring cement.) I think pics of our stove is on Paul,s forum.
if you want it shiny black. oil it with linseed oil a couple times and get some good glycerin soap and rub it in. then buff it with a soft rag. or use bees wax if your not planning on sitting on it.
Is there a formula or anything to estimate how large a mass you would need to heat a certain amount of area? I'm thinking a plastic greenhouse here, not house. Maybe 2 layers of plastic to insulate it a little better.
Could you put the dark mass/heater on the north wall to receive heat from the sun, and maybe have a half-circle cut out from the mass to put a large circular fish tank in for aquaponics?
1. not yet. experiance at this point is giving the best answers each installation is diffrent with diffrent variables. we are however working on a formula.
2. yes a dark mass/heater is very doable the system by no means needs to be in the ground it can be in a cob wall.
3. i have no idea how well it would work for aqua culture. i would think the water would simply add thermal mass to the installation. shoot us an email and we will be happy to work with you on it.
to have sufficient rise of exhaust gases for a vertical stack you have to have at least 90 degrees temp. (for function in most weather) this system is just at 90 after it passes through the bed when the bed is cold. if it was a horizontal exhaust we could have taken the gas temps down with another pass or two of pipe. the vertical stack is not needed for draft since this is a push systemn but it simplifies things for some applications.
I always enjoy them more when they aren't 'preaching' and verbally trying to hammer home an agenda. This way, each of us can listen and take away what best pertains.
Also i am wondering why the clean out access isn't facing down 90 degrees towards the walkway on the south? Seems it would be easier to reach..Is there some reason that the clean out is facing up?
Some folks like to clean these things with a shop vac. With the vertical cleanout, you just drop the hose in there. With a horizontal cleanout, you are trying to shove a floppy hose through a big hole. Plus, you'll be in a narrow space if you are coming in low, whereas you'll have lots of elbow room if you are coming in from above.
its also the bypass in case you dont want to heat the bed but want to just heat the green house. the cap thats on the clean out can be removed and the vertical stack place on it and the cap then goes where the stack was and you bypass the bed.
@Soldier957 It's actually heat torus (topographical name for donut shape). it isn't a taurus at all. It really does make a difference how you spell things.
Excellent description and demonstration of a relatively new concept. This is exactly the same heat source and greenhouse construction project I'm interested in building this summer. Thanks!
It seemed like you were putting wood into the burner long before the cobb would have had time to dry (cure?). Is that correct? Are there any problems with covering the piping after it is already hot?
not really as long as you take care to not burn your fingers. the duct is not overly hot and if you have a bit on the dry side cob mix it wont shrink very much.
Very cool, if you'll excuse the unintentional, bad pun. Anything that helps to stick it to Northwestern Energy, and their monster heating charges is a good thing in my book! Thanks, Paul!
the depth of the duct in the bed is 9 to 11 inches with a slight rise to the duct. the clean outs are easy access for a vacuum hose which is all you need to clean the system at those points. to clean ash out of the burn tube you just use your hand. the next day when its cool. Erica and i dont like ash pits due to them making it to easy to abuse the cleaning out ash every few days; its a safety thing.
folks do comment on the safety stuff. however; after several years of using a well built stove. we all tend to get lazy about it so we build them to keep you and us in the habit of care.
I just thought of this question at this very moment in time...
Would one be able to load it up with wood before bed and have it still producing heat by the morning? Or is there enough residual heat stored by the thermal mass to carry plants through the night despite lack of fire?
yes the thermal mass works like a battery for heat. the bed in this case planting bed. heats up and stays hot for many hours . (this one should stay warm for 20 or so hours after it warmed up.) like a battery it takes time to charge it up so you fire the stove for an hour or so a day and the heat slowly builds up.
nearly 60 comments and 300+ views in half a day,stellar! you're famous dude hah.
this is cool stuff , thanks again Paul, great A/V editing job too imho.
how often would you need to re-supply it with wood though? realizing of course that there are variables and "it depends" to some degree. in other words,how long till it burns out ,roughly?
The editing did take an awful long time. And now that I look at the final product, I have spotted a few places that could use still a little more trimming.
I think one burn would be about a half hour. And the heat from that should last for days.
This is Great! I would love to see the greenhouse when it is completed. I also look forward to hearing how the Oehler~Ianto combo synchronized. Thanks Paul for sharing yet again.
Well, it would be better than most other heat sources in that you could run the exhaust through the floor of your house and the heat would rise, distributed over the whole house.
not a problem our house is 1000 and 70yo with no insulation. our stove keeps the house at 63 degrees in 0 to 13 degree weather. its a 6 inch system like the one in the vid.
an 8 inch located in a central part of the house should do nicely and not chase you out of the room. what you would notice first is that you don't have temp spikes you would have slow waves with the high spot being when you fire the stove.
Love the synergy of the stove and greenhouse; a greenhouse needs hot mass. Excellent permaculture. Now, if we can just get Ernie to take the pipe out of his mouth so we can understand him!
the exhaust is out side the green house and the feed is inside in this setup. the feed outside only has the disadvantage of you having to go outside all the time. the feed inside has the disadvantage of if you get some smoke back it will kill your tomatoes and the other plants that don't like smoke.
like anything it is a tradeoff. however you can get creative and build it so you have a hatch to get to the feed or a partition for the stove and tools, ETC.
I know there is some serious science behind this. My cognitive style needs to see the science along with the demonstration. Not too much, though, I'm not that smart. Everytime I see one of these systems, I think "magic." Thanks for sharing, Paul.
I love the idea of rocket mass heaters; especially how efficient the burn is after it exits the burn combustion chamber. 95+% efficient is amazing! One question about this one; will the wood feed be below the level of the planting bed? How will they keep the soil from falling into the burn chamber?
that system is a six inch system the feed tube is 5"X5 1/2" it takes a surprising amount of wood to fill. each load takes about an hour to burn down if you are using bigger wood so you can time your burn to how often you load the stove. in the bed the soil absorbs heat at 1 inch an hour. your initial burn will be a long one or you will burn for a couple hours a day, then drop down to a one hour burn every day. the radiant heat part (the barrel) puts off heat as soon as you light the stove.
this one is slightly proud of the soil level. if you wanted it below soil level you can put a 5gal bucket with the bottom cut out around the feed and give yourself about 16".
but there are drawbacks to this. IE. the bucket can heat up and be a competing chimney. (hot stack effect)
I thought it was very interesting, but I had a hard time understanding the last half especially after 7 minutes. Why 2 inches? What is the question before "why the difference?" What did he say a tourist is?
I wonder if cob is what the Israelites were making in the mud pits when Pharaoh told them he wouldn't supply straw anymore.
yes as far as the texts go. much of the old middle east was built of mud. greeks used stone and mud, some important buildings where stone but many where mud brick. oh and the ziggerats are all mud brick. if you go to the middle east and look around you will find lots of cob buildings some 5 stories tall that have been in use for several hundred years.
Great video Paul! Excellent info on how changing the "gap" changes the heating characteristics of the barrel. Can't wait to see future installments on this greenhouse.
Nice clear visuals. The audio sounds like a transmission from a lunar module, however. I'm looking forward to what your new camera, along with that far steadier hand (nice work!), will do next! Information is good, but being a person of very little brain when it comes to stuff like this, it doesn't really explain much to me. But that may not have been your purpose. ??
My article at richsoil will probably do more explaining. This was an attempt to give a visual demonstration and to cover some important points. My 500 hot showers video is using the new camera.
you can get the book. it tells you step by step how to build a basic stove. Erica and I will answer questions as will Ianto at CCC. deviating from the basic stove is where things get diffrent because the variables all change. the basic 8" system can be used to heat a mass bench, bed, wall, floor (if you do the floor right, pretty hard for many to get the depths correct), etc. small warning; we will answer questions but wont spend all day on head scratchers.
too bad the u.n. thinks co2 is bad for you...lol
this could help alot of people and i've forwarded it on to many who could help others with it. Thanks so much Paul. Love your videos : )
artsychic2000 11 hours ago
who keeps feeding the stove every 10 minutes to keep it burning??
Rapierfighter 5 days ago
That was one of the best videos yet. Shame about the sound quality. Wish the speech bubbles had started earlier.
What would happen if the top gap was reduced to 1 inch? Way too hot on top or just wouldn't work?
DrGaryGreen 1 week ago
@DrGaryGreen I suspect that a one inch gap would melt something.
paulwheaton12 1 week ago
@paulwheaton12 Thank you for everything: Reply, video, forums... all. Moving to Norway and will be needing all your good advice at some point. Want to grow some food and get a rocket stove in the house when I finally buy a house. Have to find an alternative or cosmetics for the cob and barrel though. Want to keep it all looking Ikea. Forgive me.
DrGaryGreen 1 week ago
sexy legs! ;>
PhantomAct 1 week ago
Tomatoes in December, Thermal mass, knocking down trees because they're in the way or south? and :54 apparently rocket mass...Sir, This is sexual and reckless.
clint2098 2 weeks ago
"Five times less wood?" What does that mean? You must mean 1/5 the wood, or 20% of the wood.
NoGuff 3 weeks ago
Oops correction to my last comment @aetherfax not antherfax p.s. stfuomfg p.p.s. being an ass to you would feed my need to be an ass much better, prepare for a whole week of me being asinine to you under 30ish different accounts.
Soligoth 1 month ago
@Antherfax because the quality was So bad I didn't hear him say it, more over because of the lack of DOING it. Moreover being an ass is makes me feel good I was neglected and unloved my whole life and revel in making absolute strangers annoyed by my petty And meaningless comments.
Soligoth 1 month ago
Im sure at least ONE of you hippies has access to some kind of post production audio.... I can't understand shit being said for almost half of this video....
Soligoth 1 month ago
@Soligoth - The guy addressed that during the video, and evidently they /do/ have the ability to dub over the audio as the guy was speaking in the end. Why do you feel like you have to be ass over the internet? =\
Aetherfax 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Good how to vid I subscribed... Sub back and check out my how to construction vids when you get a chance. Thanks!
emergencyfuelsaver 1 month ago
Has anyone seen Cartman?... I've got a job for him.
lawnsausages 1 month ago
Like this. You must have been way ahead of your time having colour back in the days of black and white film.
mikecat23 1 month ago
Smoke also contains bits of ash. If only CO2 and steam are exiting, the particulates are being deposited inside the pipe.
fastdiesel2 1 month ago
Funny thing is you can do this virtually with all clay, the design of the "rocket stove/heater" is a rather Olllllllld design used by the mexo-americans
SilvaDreams 1 month ago
But how do you build the quality steel roll and duct without industrial process and mass production?
newtubetubetube 1 month ago
@newtubetubetube
you build it out of brick isteard
HappyandAtheist 1 month ago
YOU COULD RUN A GENERATOR OFF THE WOOD SMOKE
bryncomeaux 1 month ago
@bryncomeaux
Hydrogen. Right right.
danielvincentkelley 1 month ago
THE SUPER GREENHOUSE SOLAR
STRAW BALE
THERNAL MASS ROCKET STOOVE
AQUA CULTUR
DRIP HYDOPONICS
WELL WATER
BIO DIGESTER/HEATER/ COMPOST WATER HEATER FOR FISH AND PLANT ROOTS
ANYTHING ELSE?
bryncomeaux 1 month ago
Great stuff guys but I can't hear half of it. Can you fix the audio please?
DamienDJW 1 month ago
i wonder if you could use the same loop system and thermal mass with something like the solar heaters using cans painted black. Im not sure what that is called except solar heaters lol.
wheelori814 2 months ago
So... regular bricks work just as well as firebrick? Is that regular galvanized round line?
ScalerWave 2 months ago
ernie and erica are the shit. so is ianto's book.
trackerscott 3 months ago
@trackerscott What is the point of your message??
greatruaha1 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@greatruaha1 > What is the point of your message??
...that ernie and erica are the shit and so is ianto's book. damon and fred are pretty awesome, too. :grin: (seriously. search here for 'institutional rocket stove'. be amazed. be very amazed.)
DeadlyDad 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Would it be possible to transform the hayloft of a barn into a green house in usda zone 4?
zacheryandersen 4 months ago
No time to read 7 pages on comments. But if you install a raiser at the end of the piping you get a better draft once the pipe heats up.
johnnnyreb51 5 months ago
What if one was to mod this into a tlud stove ? Seems you could get a longer burn time than the rocket stove.
marthale7 6 months ago
This seems to make very hard work out of the most simple thermodynamics.
These people seem to think that they have reinvented the wheel,... ???
ozzirt 7 months ago
@ozzirt sooo... You see a lot of furnaces and wood stoves emitting low temperature water and Co2, do you?
Perhaps they reinvented it, perhaps they just applied it more intelligently. Or perhaps you didn't even bother to pay attention to the video.
AZStony 4 months ago
@AZStony Having worked in the combustion technology field for 43 years I think I just may have a few clues. It's emissions are no different to any other wood fire, there's absolutely no "new" principles at work here. in fact those being used are not even used very well.
It's just a downdraft/crossdraft wood fire connected to a potential soot and creosote trap, that will one day turn into a noxious smoke and soot belching chimney fire.
ozzirt 4 months ago
@ozzirt If you've not built one and tested it, you're just another know-it-all expert. Definition of an expert? Ex is a has-been and a spurt is a leak under pressure. You won your troll badge too.
AZStony 4 months ago
@AZStony I don't need to make one , as it's been done a thousand (possibly million) times before.
If you are stupid enough to stick your head in the fire and it burns you, you don't need to keep repeating it to find the same answer.
I can explain it a hundred times, what I CAN'T do is give idiots the intelligence to understand what's being said. It's such a pity that of your three years of formal education you never made it out of first grade.
ozzirt 4 months ago
"five times less" really? Are you kidding? Thats just piss poor grammar. How do you like "one FIFTH as much wood?" or anything similar?
myclem6674 11 months ago
@myclem6674 take it easy margaret thatcher
adamberk07 7 months ago
@myclem6674 You and ozzirt must have not paid attention in the same school.
5 pieces of wood divided by 5 equals 1 piece of wood. I'll avoid using math symbols since math seems to be one of your weak areas.
AZStony 4 months ago
@AZStony I can almost guarantee that you haven't learned any "math" that could stump me. . .
myclem6674 4 months ago
@myclem6674 In that case, I'll just hand you your troll badge and walk away
AZStony 4 months ago
@AZStony Yeah bro, troll badge and stuff dude. Did the lakers score a homerun at half time too bro?
myclem6674 4 months ago
Anxiously awaiting the follow up video.
ruggedtraditions 1 year ago
I have a 10 feet by 15 feet greenhouse, would this be cheaper than electric heat?
smurfboywv 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
1) Hold your breath.
2) Copy all of these steps.
3) Go to two other video.
4) Paste it in the comments.
If you can do all of this without breathing you're a good pot smoker
harastha 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Cob building courses in France, Spring 2011: sites.google.com/site/amrustic/home
AMRDRUMS 1 year ago
Quick question: Seeing as how, at operating temperature, the exhaust is mostly comprised of warm, moist air and CO2, is there any reason not to put a T on the outlet and return the exhaust to the greenhouse once the heater is up to temp? It seems to me that the plants would certainly appreciate that kind of atmosphere. I understand that a fresh air intake directed at the inlet would be needed to maintain O2 levels.
DeadlyDad 1 year ago
@DeadlyDad I'm pretty sure that the experts on this stuff aren't watching these comments anymore. You might try the "alternative energy" forum at permies.
paulwheaton12 1 year ago
@DeadlyDad Great idea; as plants needs Co2, heat and water to build material!!! You would need an exterior air intake for the fire though.
Rhinoch8 5 months ago
@DeadlyDad if u wanna see some super sick green house products
Jruby86 4 months ago
that's one-fifth of the wood,
not five-times-less
Sourpusscandy 1 year ago
what is it
MrEloteHead 1 year ago
??
gercekleracidir2 1 year ago
Do you burn 1) hard wood 2) soft wood or 3) both ?
Did you use any fire brick ?
LarsMith217 1 year ago
Comment removed
LarsMith217 1 year ago
I sure hope Im not the first to mention the dangers of using galvanized ductwork with actual heat. Metal fume fever. I know im being a little over pre cautious with how you are setup but its something to consider when putting a group of hippies around a pipe waiting for the "smoke" to stop. Love the ingenuity and will be attempting one myself in my well/ animal house.
chewyourfoods 1 year ago
Better way is too lay copper pipe tubes running thru poured concrete, and run solar heated water thu. No ash blockage, it builds up quick. More like a car radiator than an exhaust....
you00t 1 year ago
@you00t I'm guessing this is for when they need more heat than solar alone provides and the house is also being heated with this.
Wazabooz 1 year ago
@Wazabooz Better to heat up a boiler...chimmneys soot up! Hotwater and warm house..
you00t 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I am so excited by this innovation! I can't wait to get copies of both these books and get my own heated earth-sheltered greenhouse set up. However, I am hoping I might get an answer to one question that occurs to me while I wait for these books to arrive. My question is: since I live in an area without a lot of clay deposits, might it work to use concrete in place of the cob in the construction of the rocket heater? If not, why? Thank you in advance! Most excellent video!
RedHorse2006 1 year ago
I am so excited by this innovation! I can't wait to get copies of both these books and get my own heated earth-sheltered greenhouse set up. However, I am hoping I might get an answer to one question that occurs to me while I wait for these books to arrive. My question is: since I live in an area without a lot of clay deposits, might it work to use concrete in place of the cob in the construction of the rocket heater? If not, why? Thank you in advance! Most excellent video!
RedHorse2006 1 year ago
how do you clean the ashes out ??
jmg1957 1 year ago
I bet a feller could cook a mean venison pot roast on that baby too!! MMMmmmm!!
111fishkiller 1 year ago
Thanks for the video.
I would make one in my cabin. And all packed in clay.
But how do I clean this? Once I have to clean it.
Otherwise I risk a chimney fire.
jantjesjantje 1 year ago
ty for writn what they said around the 5:00 mark
mydoggyiscool 1 year ago
I've watch some of your other vids and like them. But, there is sometimes to much wind niose and it is hard to hear. Don't know what causes that? I did like the vid of Cobville you did, Now I have to go visit the place. I was suprised to see it on the rainny side of the Cascades. I thought it rained to muck for that kind of construction.
zekehooper 1 year ago
perfect combo
Ecologicalhomes 1 year ago
I need to build one of these. Currently I have a
section of 5/16" wall steel tubing with an elbow in it; long piece is 3.5', then elbow, then welded to an 18" straight section. I set this up
and tested it with a fast fire in the short section. It sounded like a jet engine, and loud!
This could become the core firebox and heat exchanger for a bona fide rocket stove. I'll post pix and vids of this as work progresses.
venaurafarm 2 years ago
The steel tubing is 6" diameter, small but maybe perfect for a water heater.
venaurafarm 2 years ago
This is a great video showing you how to build, use and maintain a fuel efficient wood-fired heater out of inexpensive materials and components. This type of heater is ideally suited to heating living spaces,
shops and greenhouses. It is similar to a Russian or Finnish masonry heater in that the fire in the rocket stove burns hot and fast, heating a large thermal mass or heat sink that retains heat and delivers it to a living space for many hours or even days.
venaurafarm 2 years ago
could you create this same situation without the barrel, and bury the 8 inch pipe 12 inches underground underneath a house. with the crawlspaces sealed up couldnt the radiant heat keep my house very warm if I have a well insulated home?. I am willing to try this in warmer weather but would love your experienced opinion on the matter.
the1969info 2 years ago
The more I see these things being built, the more I want to build one! Now I just need to see a little more about insulating the heat riser and setting the barrel and I'll feel like all the pieces of the puzzle will be in place! Thanks for posting this!
bunky213 2 years ago
Nice fire... could i burn frogs teeth in one of these??
jimbob3514 2 years ago
Oh that's super - thanks for all the information!
CurrentWave 2 years ago
No problem Erica and I are teachers and researchers Its not our job to promote an agenda, its our job to give you the information so you can make an informed decision.
We enjoy the questions; thank you ALL for asking them.
eawisner 2 years ago
Thanks for the info..... yes I was speaking about the barrel, I love the cob just as is.
Are there any pictures of an oiled barrel?
In the video the cob has straw in it, but I thought cob around the hot parts should not have straw.... Is a straw mix okay with high heat?
CurrentWave 2 years ago
the base mix right around the hot parts has no straw. in the vid you also dont see the one inch layer of perlite clay mix that is around the burn tunnel. the outer layer should never get to a temp that will ignite. if it does the straw in the mix will just burn out on the surface and turn to charcoal in the mix.
I think paul has some of our stove. several of the barrels at cobville have been oiled, and if you look for "ernieanderica" our website has links to our picture albums.
eawisner 2 years ago
Still having problems posting comments
earthflow 2 years ago
Great info Ernie... I keep giving you a thumbs up but it wont let me give Paul a thumbs up.
earthflow 2 years ago
Has anyone tried using high heat stove paint to paint a RMS?
Just wondering if it would last...
CurrentWave 2 years ago
the barrel yes it works just fine. the cob nope and i would not even try it. sealing the cob with a petroleum product or cement is not a good thing. the cob needs to breath or it will retain water and eventually melt. so far every one who has disregarded the warning of not mixing media without lots of experiance has had problems. question is why paint it? do a light sanding and wipe it down with canola or corn oil and fire it. just like a cast iron pan; season it to a nice none stick black
eawisner 2 years ago 2
I am speaking about the barrel. if you want the cob to be black use an earthen plaster and a black iron oxide pigment (you can get black iron oxide from a masonry supply for coloring cement.) I think pics of our stove is on Paul,s forum.
if you want it shiny black. oil it with linseed oil a couple times and get some good glycerin soap and rub it in. then buff it with a soft rag. or use bees wax if your not planning on sitting on it.
eawisner 2 years ago 2
Is there a formula or anything to estimate how large a mass you would need to heat a certain amount of area? I'm thinking a plastic greenhouse here, not house. Maybe 2 layers of plastic to insulate it a little better.
Could you put the dark mass/heater on the north wall to receive heat from the sun, and maybe have a half-circle cut out from the mass to put a large circular fish tank in for aquaponics?
kylekopid 2 years ago
1. not yet. experiance at this point is giving the best answers each installation is diffrent with diffrent variables. we are however working on a formula.
2. yes a dark mass/heater is very doable the system by no means needs to be in the ground it can be in a cob wall.
3. i have no idea how well it would work for aqua culture. i would think the water would simply add thermal mass to the installation. shoot us an email and we will be happy to work with you on it.
eawisner 2 years ago
Would adding some sort of heat sinks within the pipe to better trap and or absorb the heat coming up through the pipe make it more efficient?
You know better pulling more heat out of the air rising through the pipe
PloofElune 2 years ago
to have sufficient rise of exhaust gases for a vertical stack you have to have at least 90 degrees temp. (for function in most weather) this system is just at 90 after it passes through the bed when the bed is cold. if it was a horizontal exhaust we could have taken the gas temps down with another pass or two of pipe. the vertical stack is not needed for draft since this is a push systemn but it simplifies things for some applications.
eawisner 2 years ago 2
Thank you for this video.
I always enjoy them more when they aren't 'preaching' and verbally trying to hammer home an agenda. This way, each of us can listen and take away what best pertains.
Not that I'm opposed, anyway...
Just..., "Thank You", again.
omniquiddity 2 years ago
What are we waiting for? this is taught in Seattle and all over the planet!
bjhedahl 2 years ago
legal stuff is part of it.
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
permitting: we are in the approval process now and have been for a year.
eawisner 2 years ago
That's correct, this is a way to have a healthy planet and a healthy us
bjhedahl 2 years ago
Also i am wondering why the clean out access isn't facing down 90 degrees towards the walkway on the south? Seems it would be easier to reach..Is there some reason that the clean out is facing up?
earthflow 2 years ago
Some folks like to clean these things with a shop vac. With the vertical cleanout, you just drop the hose in there. With a horizontal cleanout, you are trying to shove a floppy hose through a big hole. Plus, you'll be in a narrow space if you are coming in low, whereas you'll have lots of elbow room if you are coming in from above.
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
its also the bypass in case you dont want to heat the bed but want to just heat the green house. the cap thats on the clean out can be removed and the vertical stack place on it and the cap then goes where the stack was and you bypass the bed.
eawisner 2 years ago
wow, cool. Didn't really get how the piping works though. And what is "heat taurus" (heat- bull)....
Are there drawings on the principle of this? Would love to read more. Thanks.
Soldier957 2 years ago
there is an article with drawings and explanations at richsoil. that might help. And, of course, a whole book on the topic!
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
@Soldier957 it is not Taurus as in bull but "torus" as in ring. It is a ring of heat around the barrel.
TELBOYO10 1 year ago
@Soldier957 It's actually heat torus (topographical name for donut shape). it isn't a taurus at all. It really does make a difference how you spell things.
SumErgoMonstro 1 year ago
@SumErgoMonstro
Definately. Learned something new. Thanks! ;)
Soldier957 1 year ago
Now if I could only get a few of my healthy strappin' friends to come build one for me! You guys make this look almost easy enough for me to try :-)
diskmuncher 2 years ago
Do you see me doing any work? :) I was just the giant doofus with the camera! :)
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
Nice Job... Hi Ernie, Erica, and Paul..
earthflow 2 years ago
I so wish rocket stoves could be mainstreamed some how to reduce the smoke that pours out of so many chimneys.
Question: is it "heat taurus" or "heat torus"? I don't think it's astrological...
ahnamay 2 years ago
working on it
eawisner 2 years ago
I dunno. This is the first time I ever heard the word, so ... should I change the spelling in the talk bubbles?
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
Thanks for posting this excellent video!
fieldofgreens 2 years ago
Excellent description and demonstration of a relatively new concept. This is exactly the same heat source and greenhouse construction project I'm interested in building this summer. Thanks!
AlmostWicked 2 years ago
Thanks for the text bubbles Paul - that is much better!
andrewmonkhouse 2 years ago
It seemed like you were putting wood into the burner long before the cobb would have had time to dry (cure?). Is that correct? Are there any problems with covering the piping after it is already hot?
andrewmonkhouse 2 years ago
My understanding is that the fire helps the cob to dry.
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
not really as long as you take care to not burn your fingers. the duct is not overly hot and if you have a bit on the dry side cob mix it wont shrink very much.
eawisner 2 years ago
KUDOS! Thanks for the inspiration!
jenlinand 2 years ago
What happens if you exfixeate? Great video, a pipe smoker knows how fire moves.
kowala9 2 years ago
What is "exfixeate"?
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
Paul, the talk bubbles were a stroke of genius! Really appreciate the work you've done to make this video!
9anda1f 2 years ago
Very cool, if you'll excuse the unintentional, bad pun. Anything that helps to stick it to Northwestern Energy, and their monster heating charges is a good thing in my book! Thanks, Paul!
badbrad912 2 years ago
The clean out had a 90° turns - can you explain how this will be used? The angle is messing with my understanding.
How high are they going to make the thermal mass bed? It looked really thick, over 4', but I can't really tell.
Great Vid!
CurrentWave 2 years ago
the depth of the duct in the bed is 9 to 11 inches with a slight rise to the duct. the clean outs are easy access for a vacuum hose which is all you need to clean the system at those points. to clean ash out of the burn tube you just use your hand. the next day when its cool. Erica and i dont like ash pits due to them making it to easy to abuse the cleaning out ash every few days; its a safety thing.
eawisner 2 years ago
folks do comment on the safety stuff. however; after several years of using a well built stove. we all tend to get lazy about it so we build them to keep you and us in the habit of care.
eawisner 2 years ago
This is really cool! I'd love to have a place I could build one :-) I
I've sent this one to some friends of mine who live off the grid here in Colorado. Thanks for the txt bubbles!
netgnomemom 2 years ago
This Rocket Heater Rocks! I want one!
minkeysgirl 2 years ago
i love it!
this is the first time the audio bothered me. im glad you got a new camera. and thanks for adding the text bubbles.
manofskill 2 years ago
I just thought of this question at this very moment in time...
Would one be able to load it up with wood before bed and have it still producing heat by the morning? Or is there enough residual heat stored by the thermal mass to carry plants through the night despite lack of fire?
GreenshireEcoFarm 2 years ago
yes the thermal mass works like a battery for heat. the bed in this case planting bed. heats up and stays hot for many hours . (this one should stay warm for 20 or so hours after it warmed up.) like a battery it takes time to charge it up so you fire the stove for an hour or so a day and the heat slowly builds up.
eawisner 2 years ago
Yes, burn one fast, hot fire at night and the heat from that fire will last for days!
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
Looking forward to the next installment!
leobro 2 years ago
nearly 60 comments and 300+ views in half a day,stellar! you're famous dude hah.
this is cool stuff , thanks again Paul, great A/V editing job too imho.
how often would you need to re-supply it with wood though? realizing of course that there are variables and "it depends" to some degree. in other words,how long till it burns out ,roughly?
tribalwind 2 years ago
The editing did take an awful long time. And now that I look at the final product, I have spotted a few places that could use still a little more trimming.
I think one burn would be about a half hour. And the heat from that should last for days.
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
This is Great! I would love to see the greenhouse when it is completed. I also look forward to hearing how the Oehler~Ianto combo synchronized. Thanks Paul for sharing yet again.
MeagLove 2 years ago
But is the rocket-type stove capable of evenly spreading heat through a 1400 SQ ft house? Is it hot right near the stove, then colder as you go away?
bytor99999 2 years ago
Well, it would be better than most other heat sources in that you could run the exhaust through the floor of your house and the heat would rise, distributed over the whole house.
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
not a problem our house is 1000 and 70yo with no insulation. our stove keeps the house at 63 degrees in 0 to 13 degree weather. its a 6 inch system like the one in the vid.
an 8 inch located in a central part of the house should do nicely and not chase you out of the room. what you would notice first is that you don't have temp spikes you would have slow waves with the high spot being when you fire the stove.
eawisner 2 years ago
Hey everyone, I asked Paul where I could get additional details about design and he recommended I google rocket mass heaters for an article he did.
billcompton32 2 years ago
My article is at the richsoil site. It has a diagram of how the fire works its way through.
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
Love the synergy of the stove and greenhouse; a greenhouse needs hot mass. Excellent permaculture. Now, if we can just get Ernie to take the pipe out of his mouth so we can understand him!
permacult5 2 years ago
Looks like a great start, please continue the series to the end!
mwbrown42 2 years ago
Great innovative design. I wasn't familiar with rocket mass heaters, so now I want to learn more. Thanks!
scottlmnop 2 years ago
Nice! I'd like to see the finished structure too.
puppupabc 2 years ago
wheeeeee that was great!
WorldStove 2 years ago
So simple. I hope to incorporate some of this into our lives soon.
bobjinmt 2 years ago
Great workshop! This is a very sensible way to add to the growing season using a simple and elegant technology.
denali525 2 years ago
That is a great idea, thanks for sharing!
If this is the final set up it seems that the whole rocket stove circuit (feeder/mass/exhaust) is inside the green house!
What about locating the feeder just outside the green house... and just the keeping the mass inside the green house? What would the disadvantages be?
Will the close circuit combustion not affect the "health" of plants/people inside the green house?
ischnura 2 years ago
the exhaust is out side the green house and the feed is inside in this setup. the feed outside only has the disadvantage of you having to go outside all the time. the feed inside has the disadvantage of if you get some smoke back it will kill your tomatoes and the other plants that don't like smoke.
like anything it is a tradeoff. however you can get creative and build it so you have a hatch to get to the feed or a partition for the stove and tools, ETC.
eawisner 2 years ago
We should all be using rocket-type stoves
madronacenter 2 years ago
Very inspiring though I also did not get the point of the two inch discussion... but love the idea of using to heat mass in a greenhouse
hbohan08 2 years ago
I just now added talk bubbles. Does this help?
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
The talk bubbles are great! Thanks!
ischnura 2 years ago
I know there is some serious science behind this. My cognitive style needs to see the science along with the demonstration. Not too much, though, I'm not that smart. Everytime I see one of these systems, I think "magic." Thanks for sharing, Paul.
geoffbad 2 years ago
this is why we do workshops. the fire science part takes a day.
eawisner 2 years ago
I love the idea of rocket mass heaters; especially how efficient the burn is after it exits the burn combustion chamber. 95+% efficient is amazing! One question about this one; will the wood feed be below the level of the planting bed? How will they keep the soil from falling into the burn chamber?
terraflorafarm 2 years ago
The wood feed will be below the level of the planting bed. Keeping the soil out .... I dunno ...
Ernie and Erica?
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
@paulwheaton12
How long does it take to get heat once the wood is put in? How much wood does it take?
MissHarvest 2 years ago
The amount of wood that you can put in is pretty small. But the heat starts to come off the top within seconds after starting the fire.
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
that system is a six inch system the feed tube is 5"X5 1/2" it takes a surprising amount of wood to fill. each load takes about an hour to burn down if you are using bigger wood so you can time your burn to how often you load the stove. in the bed the soil absorbs heat at 1 inch an hour. your initial burn will be a long one or you will burn for a couple hours a day, then drop down to a one hour burn every day. the radiant heat part (the barrel) puts off heat as soon as you light the stove.
eawisner 2 years ago
I cant go into much detail on this comment thing but i tried to hit the points. if you want to know more email Erica or I.
eawisner 2 years ago
this one is slightly proud of the soil level. if you wanted it below soil level you can put a 5gal bucket with the bottom cut out around the feed and give yourself about 16".
but there are drawbacks to this. IE. the bucket can heat up and be a competing chimney. (hot stack effect)
eawisner 2 years ago
rad. really.
supersones 2 years ago
I thought it was very interesting, but I had a hard time understanding the last half especially after 7 minutes. Why 2 inches? What is the question before "why the difference?" What did he say a tourist is?
I wonder if cob is what the Israelites were making in the mud pits when Pharaoh told them he wouldn't supply straw anymore.
VivaPermies 2 years ago
I spent the last hour adding "talk bubbles" so that it might help clear up what was said. If I need to add more, please let me know.
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
yes as far as the texts go. much of the old middle east was built of mud. greeks used stone and mud, some important buildings where stone but many where mud brick. oh and the ziggerats are all mud brick. if you go to the middle east and look around you will find lots of cob buildings some 5 stories tall that have been in use for several hundred years.
eawisner 2 years ago
Great video Paul! Excellent info on how changing the "gap" changes the heating characteristics of the barrel. Can't wait to see future installments on this greenhouse.
9anda1f 2 years ago
Thanks for putting this up! I'd love to hear more about the progress on the greenhouse (and how it works)!
EKWisner 2 years ago
Comment removed
Jenigreni 2 years ago
Nice clear visuals. The audio sounds like a transmission from a lunar module, however. I'm looking forward to what your new camera, along with that far steadier hand (nice work!), will do next! Information is good, but being a person of very little brain when it comes to stuff like this, it doesn't really explain much to me. But that may not have been your purpose. ??
pennielink 2 years ago
My article at richsoil will probably do more explaining. This was an attempt to give a visual demonstration and to cover some important points. My 500 hot showers video is using the new camera.
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
This is awesome. How can I build one of these myself, do I need to take a class or can I do it out of the book you showed?
Jenigreni 2 years ago
you can get the book. it tells you step by step how to build a basic stove. Erica and I will answer questions as will Ianto at CCC. deviating from the basic stove is where things get diffrent because the variables all change. the basic 8" system can be used to heat a mass bench, bed, wall, floor (if you do the floor right, pretty hard for many to get the depths correct), etc. small warning; we will answer questions but wont spend all day on head scratchers.
eawisner 2 years ago
Comment removed
Jenigreni 2 years ago
Good job, Paul. I like the purple arrows. We've been thinking about doing one of these here on the farm.
33jester3 2 years ago
Ernie and Erica are based in Porltand. They were really patient with all of my questions.
paulwheaton12 2 years ago
Paul, this was great. Much steadier video than usual! :) I hope you'll post more of the greenhouse construction and integration.
tamo42metube 2 years ago