It is schizophrenia now, back before Schneider you were beatified by credulous morons who would believe almost anything.
The pillock who you are talking to here, for example... "Like why would she lie? I realise she was in the throws of puberty and had just eaten enough magic mushrooms to freak out Ozzy Osbourrne, but if she say she says she saw Our friggin' Lady then who am I to call her a fraud..."
@gabiotta *watches your videos and cries tears of joy and laughter* That is fucking beautiful. I am now reading your comment and I can hear it in your voice there mate.
Yeah, She doesn't get that humans are fallible beings that can just make shit up or actually kill themselves over the stupidest of beliefs. Oh wait this is a guy.. But they kinda sound like a chick when I am arguing with them...
@sabertooth1980 I would also like to ask you why you are so against Christians? You read the Bible, surely you see that Jesus' teachings are a good way to live your life?
@something392 You assume alot. I am not just against christians. It only seems such because of the culture I live in.
Next, You can cherry pick what you like from 'jesus's teachings'. Some of what he says is good, some of what he says (in the bible mind you) isn't. He promotes slavery and says that the poor will always be there. He calls a woman a dog and then rewards her.
Besides you can get what jesus taught out of secular means too.
@sabertooth1980 No, of course I know you are against all Religion and Faith, But I am wondering specically about mine. How does He promote slavery? "the poor will always be there" sad, but it is true, they are still here today. Seriously, you took the dog thing as bad, think about it this is not a negative situation at all. I love how these are the worst things you can think up about Jesus, and they aren't even anything. Clarify the last part please.
@something392 In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong. The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
@sabertooth1980 First of all this parable is refering to Christians who ignore God's command/calling for them, intentional or not, we will be chastised, this can be anything, from stubbing your toe to your car breaking down, whtever gets the message across. Second, not once in this parable did Jesus mention beatings, you are hearing what you want to hear. The last part shows that if some one is given a gift from God they must use it, and to serve the Lord.
@something392 And I love how people who profess to believe in the bible haven't read it. And if you think I am taking it out of context, we can quote the full of the chapter...
@sabertooth1980 People almost always profess to know Jesus, not the Bible, they know the Gospels because tey heard them preached, that is all you NEED, but more knowledge is always great. Plus some does not need to read to hear the word, he can listen to testimonies from other Believers that essentially teach the Bible. That's why we go to church as well, to learn.
@sabertooth1980 How do you test the big bang theory in a lab? Seems to me like they are trying and it's not really working. Yes and you can test the Gospels and retest them and there is still no viable evidence that says they aren't valid. The problem with scientists is that they won't accept that some things can't be explained by science, which isn't that bad sometimes. But the problem is when they can't prove it with science they manipulate the story to fit there explanation or they dismiss it
@something392 I'm glad you asked! The primary evidence for the Big Bang Theory (the current model of how the universe formed and has changed over time) comes in the form of: Hubble's law and the expansion of space (the universe is expanding and that expansion is accelerating), Cosmic microwave background radiation (what we could call the "after glow" of the initial rapid expansion of the universe.), (continuing...)
@something392 and The Galactic evolution and distribution of Galaxies and Quasars. All of these fit the current model and can be used to calculate our universes age, size, and probable future of the universe. Either ice or fire seems to be its fate.
Oh wait, I could be mistaken but in your question you seem to be implying that because scientists haven't created their own little universe that the Theory must be flawed!
Actually I can test the gospels against each other, And they don't match up.
@sabertooth1980 Could you explain more, I am not a scientist as you can see, and to me it seems like this is one big guess. Actually if you had knowledge about acient Greek, and how the language works amongst other things you would see that they match perefectly. And it seems to me that if we can't show you God under a microscope were you can poke at Him and see what He can do, then He can't be real.
@sabertooth1980 Okay, in ancient tradition a story is allowd to varry on secondary details and still be accurate, it was not important to tell it word for word the same, or even in a linear fashion, as long as the main points remain the same. You still didn't explain the big bang more though? Because what you told me sounds like a guess and evidence the universe exists. Are you saying then that this is a pointless unless you see God in person?
@something392 Ah blanket statements about scientists. They won't accept things that can't be explained by science.
Problem there. There are many religious scientists. Many scientists of differing faiths and even scientists who believe that there is a god and that this god created.
But accept the science behind what they study. You should really look into that.
I would like examples please. Otherwise you are just making blind assertions.
@sabertooth1980 Your right, that was rude I generalized all scientists. I was refering to was who hold that the Gospels can't possibly true because they talk about things that aren't HUMANLY possible. And dismiss them right off that bat instead of being open minded. Scientists who blindly agree with things like the Jeus seminar, and who hold theories like "the Disciples were bribed" or "they stole the body" or "Jesus never even existed Christ or not" these are so flawed and ilogical it's insane
@something392 Again you're generalizing with "They talk about things that aren't humanly possible." There are still scientists who are Christians that swallow the whole thing. Hook Line Sinker.
Even the talking snake bit.
Why are these things so flawed and illogical that it is insane? Please, explain.
@sabertooth1980 The "they" in this comment refers to the Gospels. Thats good, whats you point, I only refer to the scientests I described earlier. Let's start with the Jesus seminar, they have no evidence what so ever backing up what they said, there results have been manipulated to show what they want. Who would have bribed the disciples to make it up? Why? Why would they latter die to keep the secret about the "hoax of the Ressurection?
@sabertooth1980 Yes the authors of the Gospels got LOADS of money for writting the Gospels, and we have tuns of evidence for that. They were exacuted, put to death by sword, hanged, got their heads choped off by an axe, crucified, and crucified upside down.
@something392 Stories sell. Now whiles that might not be the only reason, People who believe crazy things, tend to Do crazy things. Even if finding the proposition of dying over a crazy belief seems preposterous to you, there are people who will kill and die for them. That has of course Nothing to do with whether they are true or not.
@sabertooth1980 So what you are saying is that the Disciples made up the entire story to get a best seller payout, and then tricked themselves into believing this was all real, to the point were they gave up all there money and belongings, and proceded to tell other people it was real, being persecuted the whole time, and eventually killed, all for a story they made up hoping they were going to make a fortune? And of course I would die for my beliefs, more importantly though, the Apostels would.
@sabertooth1980 So that's all you have to discredit the Gospels? Now where is the evidence, because apparently you can only believe things when there is some. Why is it retarded, put youself into my shoes and it would be stupid not to.
@something392 Putting myself in your shoes. And loading, I can't conceeve how I could ever be wrong about this. Of course the bible is true, it says in the bible it is true. You can scoff all you like, the bible says that there would be scoffers. The men who wrote the bible wouldn't have written the bible for Aaaaaany other reason because they died for what they believed in. And only people who die for what they believe in write absolutely true things!
@sabertooth1980 Hey look now you are strawmanning me! Haha your right that video was usefull. I don't only Believe the Bible because it says so. Agreed on the scoffer thing, but I have to try to help. You have provided no logical reasoning why they would, nor has any one else. Never said that, the fact that they died just shows that they truly Believed in what they died for. Thanks for trying to be empathetic though.
@something392 Just because they died for what they believed doesn't mean jack. Nor does it show any validity to what they wrote. Nor does it show that they actually wrote it.
@sabertooth1980 Of course it means something. It shows they Believed what in what they died for, you said that yourself. I never claimed it proved any of those other things.
@sabertooth1980 I'd say you have to make a very small step of Faith with what we know now. You can cross check all I said though, the vast majorities of Scholars and Historians would agree with me.
@something392 Argument from Authority and Majority. The majority of Scientists accept evolution as a viable Scientific Theory. But it doesn't matter that the Majority of Scientists accept it. What matters is the evidence behind it. That we can test it, retest it, reproduce their results and come to viable conclusions based on these results.
No faith (belief without evidence) required!
That is the difference between my stance and yours.
@sabertooth1980 And to top it off there is no reason historically or scientifically, or even religously that Jesus did not exist and that He did not fit the mold of the Messiah. And then of course you have common sense. Plus there are no reasonable explanations about these events, other then the ones in the Gospel. And then you have all the people who have felt Jesus in there life and have completly changed because of the Holy Spirit. Also all the miracles preformed by the Saints. Evidence.
@something392 Common Sense tells me that the Sun goes around the earth, that the earth should be a flat surface if I am at ground level, and a good number of other things. Common Sense isn't a reliable source of evidence.
And no. That isn't evidence. Those are bold assertions. Seriously, right now it's like you aren't even trying...
@sabertooth1980 actually we do have alot of evidence that Jesus did exist, He was crucified, that the Gospels are reliable documents, that they were not faked, the disciples weren't tricked, that Jesus was not crazy, that He did die on the cross, that He was seen after, the Gospels are backed up by archeology, we have accounts from non-Christians desribing the darkness while Jesus was on the cross, as well as that He was real.
@sabertooth Also it seems like I over looked an argument last time where you were talking the "save the rod, spoil the child" quote. First of all I should pint out that this is advice, no a command, so we as Christians don't NEED to follow. Also it isn't implying that daily beattings are good because they will keep your kid in line. It is just saying that if you fail to punish your kids, then they will be "spoiled".
@something392 No Child should be beaten. And whiles you don't see it as a reason to beat children, Other People Claiming to Be Christians Do. And they do it to the point where some children Die.
@sabertooth1980 I know, and it makes me sick that people abbuse there children and use the Bible to support there sick acts, and act like they aren't really twisting the Word and defiling it. To be honest there is not any one that I truely hate in this world, but these people come pretty close.
For some reason people assume evil actions speak louder then good ones. But how but you don't look at how SOME people use the Bible, and instead read it and understand what it is really saying.
@sabertooth1980 Yes and it makes me sick because they think that is what it is really saying. And just because some use it that way does not meen that is what it is saying.
@sabertooth1980 Again you want scientific evidencefor souls, you want something you can look at under a microscope and poke at, and if you don't have scientific evidence for it then you dismiss it. But by whose standards are you 'good'.
@sabertooth1980 Backing up what I said would take days of writting, exspeacially sense there are several books on these things, but I encourage you to look it up. I assure you I have read about these things and they pass the toughest scrutiny with flying colors. Hear every side of the story first.
@sabertooth1980 Well here is all you want to know, have fun :D /books?id=ydVw3pbYZbgC&pg=PT19&lpg=PT19&dq=the+case+for+Christ+the+eyewitness+evidence&source=bl&ots=-iUVtSFV6x&sig=Bm7Q1l0Tnn446KnWdJZTrIx5rwk&hl=en&ei=JgvZTqzeEOnz0gGLvcWrBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CF8Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=the%20case%20for%20Christ%20the%20eyewitness%20evidence&f=true
@something392 Seriously? You are still citing "the case for christ"? And working from eyewitness testimonies?
We've been over this. Eyewitness testimonies are poor evidence if any. All that Eyewitnesses can provide is that 'something' _might_ have happened, as far as the validity of that something actually happening?
People can be fooled, lied to, cave to peer pressure, bullied, bribed and tricked.
@sabertooth1980 What is wrong with it? Unfortunetly that is the only part I coulf find on google books, but I encourage you to look for the rest, it is rather good. Yes but if they were lying there story would have fell to pieces by now, the next part of the book tests the eyewitness testimonies. It stands up like a rock.
@sabertooth1980 Poor simile. Have you ever seen a judge, after concluding the accuracy, dismiss eyewitness testimony? No, it is evidence that supports the Bible, like I said you have your heart set on scientific evidence. And actually archeology supports the Gospels, that's a scientific field I'm pretty sure.
@sabertooth1980 I am not strawmanning you, you have said something, now I answered it the best I could. If you want me to stop misunderstanding then be clreal in what you are saying, stop talking like a strawman and I won't treat you like one.
@something392@something392 See, to me that's a loaded question. I dislike irrational belief structures in general. Christianity just happens to be the one that is pushed a great deal in the country I happen to live in. Was this another country, I would be more vocal about a different one, But cause I live in America, it's Christianity. Then of course there is what it teaches.
@sabertooth1980 Now I understand why you are so out spoken about Christians, I get that. But then you say "irrational belief structures", why are they irrational? Is it because according to science these things can't happen? Or is it the the so called "lack of evidence"?
@sabertooth1980 but there is not a lack of evidence, the Bible tells us they happened, it has passed all srutiny and tests that challenged it, so there is no reason to doubt it.
@sabertooth1980 No I am using the Gosples (tested eyewitness accounts) to prove that Jesus exists. But look at the corrobarating evidence to if you like.
@something392 The primary center of which is that people are scum and that they need something in their lives otherwise they'll act like scum. So here comes this "solution", the 'solution' says that if you do everything that it says no matter what it does to other people, that after you die you'll go to a fantastic wonderland. Whiles if you don't do what it says, you'll be punished. Even if you don't accept the 'solution'.
@sabertooth1980 I explained this before I am sure, we as Christians don't believe we are better then you, we were once slaves to sin also, but now we are slaves to Christ our Lord. Sure we still sin, but we try not to, that is the difference, maybe you sin alot, I don't know, but you still need Salvation, we all do. Also I would like to point out that we Believe that following the Law won't get you to Heaven, it was only told to us so we can see our sins and repent, no one can keep it but Jesus.
@sabertooth1980 You seem to think that you are perfect and deserve to live forever because you are so good, correct me if I am wrong but that is what I understood.
@something392 That would be a negatory. I believe that I am human. I believe that this is the one life I get because I don't have any evidence that shows me otherwise. I am an atheist and I am perfectly capable to doing good deeds without the bribery of your heaven or the threat of your hell. It is as simple as that.
@sabertooth1980 Well you sure do make yourself sound great in your definitions of yourself, I agree we are both humans, but how is that a good excuse for our sins? So you believe this is your only life yet you spend loads of time on youtube arguing? Never said you weren't, I don't do good deeds to get me to Heaven, only Jesus can do that. I do good deeds because that is what the Lord wants, and maybe it will help lead a person or two to Christ. It is simple as that.
@something392 That kinda applies to all the major monotheistic religions, and it isn't asking your pointed question of "why christianity in particular!?".
But it isn't christianity in particular. It's the thought process that was mentioned above. And not only that, but it is the group implementation of it. It's the way that religion high jacks perfectly rational people and gets them into believing batshit crazy things.
@sabertooth1980 Good know I understand you are against the main aspects that all religions have in commen ie. Faith, and people need Salvation. But no one is forced to Believe these things, if they were they wouldn't actually be Christians, etc. But how do you know, sense these people are perfectly rational, that you aren't being irrational?
@something392 No they don't. Faith is belief without evidence. And believing things without any evidence isn't rational. Rational meaning
1. agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible.
2. having or exercising reason, sound judgment, or good sense.
With that definition in place, we can see that there are plenty of people of 'faith' who are irrational. Who don't go to doctors when their children are sick, who rely on faith healers, who go to mega churches and the like.
@sabertooth1980 Like I said before we only need Faith to Believe a few things, we it's not like I am Believing only on a blind whim. Oh look you used a plea to the majority fallacy. Even if some people who have Faith are irrational doesn't meen we all are.
@something392 However you have no good reason for believing what you believe. You might be perfectly rational in everything else you do, but eh! Can't let our rational minds look at this little god box you have. Other wise the god box you have would explode or something.
@sabertooth1980 Of course I have good reason to Believe it, just with the changes I have witnessed in other peoples lives not to mention the changes in my life, I feel I have enough, and then there is much more on top of that. I allow plenty of logic into my "God box", it only strenghens what I Believe.
@something392 And by "no they don't" I am responding to your claim that people 'need' salvation. This term salvation, what does it mean and why do people need it anyway? What if it is all based on a lie? If the foundation of your beliefs stem from a lie that has been perpetuated then the whole of the belief is a lie. And the beliefs collapse, leaving behind the structures of what remain true despite the beliefs you once held.
@sabertooth1980 Salvation is the free gift offered by God to save your self from punishment, all you need to is accept it. If it is a lie then I loose nothing, what if it is true?
@something392 Ah pascals wager. If you are right then I go to hell. Oh noes. But, what if Islam is right? What if the Jewish faith is right? What if the man living on an island who believes in a volcano and rain god is right? What if all those other sects of christianity are right? And it is You whom are wrong?
And I disagree with the statement "We are sinners."
@sabertooth1980 Good so you know that. Little more than an "oh noes" I think. If they are right than I go to Hell. The other sects still Believe as Jesus as the Messiah, they only disagree on very minor details, or as Pul calls them "disputable matters". So then you are perfect? Never lied? Never stole? Never disobeyed your parents? Never coveted? Never hated? Never looked at a girl with lust? We are all sinners, me and you, and everybody.
@sabertooth1980 Who exactly is the "banana man"? Yes I said that allready. You should care because you claim to be "good", and these things hurt people, so maybe if you do these things your not as good as you think. And maybe it's time for a change.
@sabertooth1980 The thoughts them self don't hurt people, but it is when they develope into an action, such as steeling or murder, or even when they develope into words. Ray Comfort, yeah I watched this video of him talking about abortion, rather interesting, all the commenters an in a huge argument.
@sabertooth1980 Yes I haven't giving you evidence because it is not something of this world, you need Faith, so I gave you an alternate reason why you should care.
@sabertooth1980 Yes you think Faith is meeningless, so I stoped saying sin leads you to Hell, and said that you should care than because it is moraly right, really do you even read what I write?
@something392 You stopped saying sin leads to hell, though you haven't stopped implying it directly.
I don't know. Do YOU read what you write? I mean really, stop, take your fingers from the keyboard, turn around, count to twenty, or have a snack, go outside long enough just to almost forget that you typed something, Come back to the screen, pretend it wasn't you that typed what was there, and read read it.
@sabertooth1980 You get all touchy and mad when I do, so I stopped saying it. Also sin is imposssible to avoid 100%, that's why we need Jesus. Tha would take a rather long time, and I'm in Canada it's cold out. But really I try to understand what you are saying, so please stop taking things out of context.
@sabertooth1980 I rarely get mad or touchy. Perhaps you have miss read some of my comment? I will admit though I did get rather frustrated a couple times.
@sabertooth1980 Just telling the truth, not trying to influence you by them in anyway, just read them in the computers monotone voice if you please. :P
@something392 Ooooh Yeah. The "So then you are perfect? Never lied? Never stole? Never disobeyed your parents? Never coveted? Never hated? Never looked at a girl with lust? We are all sinners, me and you, and everybody."
Perfect is a relative term that has no real meaning.
I make it a point not to lie, but it's happened anyway. Oh noes. People lie.
@something392 In the Aztec empire, the winning team of the ritual ball-game got to be sacrificed to Quetzalcoatl. Why would they train and volunteer and play in those games, knowing fully well that their prize for winning would be death, if Quetzalcoatl wasn't real. They had nothing to gain and everything to lose by claiming Quetzalcoatl was their god. Their actions make absolutely, definitively, no sense unless it was true. Wait, I've heard this argument before for other gods...
@sabertooth1980 Now for the last time I will tell you, the fact that the Gospels writers and Apostels died shows one thing THEY BELIEVED IN WHAT THEY DIED FOR. Again you don't listen to what I am saying, sense they died we can deduce that they weren't making a hoax, or steeling the body, or getting bribbed, or they weren't just storry tellers.
@sabertooth1980 My goodness you are blind. The fact that they died proves nothing other then that they Believed in what they died for! It is not proof of the existence of God, it is proof of their sincere belief. Point finale.
@something392 I am making a note of this because, well you keep going on and on about how the authors of the bible wouldn't do what they did unless they had something to gain from it.
@sabertooth1980 That is good, try not to lie, yes we do sin, and we should repent because it is bad, it effects people negativly. Now how much more good you could do if you had the Holy Spirit and if you followed Him.
@something392 You act like a missy, though there is nary any shame in that.
But let's go with the whole guilt tactic thing.
I am human. And there are things that humans do. One of them is want things.
You are telling me it is wrong to want thing, no! worse than that it is a "sin", something so wrong that doing it will harm not only myself but others and will cause me to be put somewhere terrible after I die.
@something392 That is a guilt tactic, a shame tactic and a threat dressed up as what you are trying to pawn off as an act of compassion.
After all, how is telling someone that they are going to drop into a deep hole that is infront of them a bad thing? And there are different ways of doing it too! You could threaten them, or cry at them or shout at them to get their attention.
But what if there isn't a hole? Then you look like an ass.
@sabertooth1980 Really I am just trying to help you. If there isn't a hole then I am just simply dead, and I won't have a concious mind to feel stupid with. Now, if you are right then nothing happens, if I am right, as it stands right now I get internity and you get punishment, I am concerned for you.
@something392 Ah emotional blackmail. I am not trying to threaten you, I am looking out for your well being! After all if you don't pray to my god something bad is going to happen to you! And it will be all your fault!
Now for the mortal equivalent.
The gang that is offering the owner of a store "protection".
@something392 Stolen.. Once or twice, Nothing major. After I moved out of my parents house... nothing at all.
Coveted. Now we are talking thought crimes. How can you stop from wanting things? Wanting things is a part of human nature. How is Wanting things something that hurts others? If anything it helps others due to the fact that now that you want something you might go out and Buy it.
@sabertooth1980 You have stolen? Than repent, ask forginess. How do you stop wanting things that aren't yours? Be thankfull for what you have, don't wish you had something that belongs to the another person, these bring up thoughts of anger and spite. No, if you can buy it then it can belong to you, it is something that is yours but you have not yet bought it. Think of it more singular than plural, there is a difference from "I want that ", to "I want his _, it it should be mine"
@something392 Why? I'm going to go with no. There are things, I will want them. Sure I'll be happy that I have things, but hey, there are always going to be more things.
How does this bring up thoughts of anger and spite?
@sabertooth1980 But it becomes a sin when it belongs to another, and is not yours. If I think your car should be mine and I deserve it and you don't, I will become frustrated, angry, jealous, I will covet. And as you may observe these feelings very often cause murder.
@something392 Yawn. Problem. Law Officals. Just because you want something that you can't have doesn't mean that you will go out murdering people who have it to get it. It is something that *might* happen, but it doesn't mean that It _will_ happen.
What's more interesting is that more than often your efforts to make people not do something go counter if you tell them they CANNOT do it.
It's their way of thumbing their nose at you and going "Nanananana! Looook what I am doing!"
@something392 Also. You're using the wrong word. "Then". Not 'than'. Than is a grammatical particle analyzed as both a conjunction and a preposition in the English language. It introduces a comparison, and is associated with comparatives and with words such as more, less, and fewer. Typically, it measures the force of an adjective or similar description between two predicates.
@something392 Hated? That is a rare thing for me, but yeah, there is one person I can think of whom I can say I hate. Course he tried to strangle me whiles he was drunk, so hate is a good reaction here.
Looked at another in lust, along with coveting (wanting) and hating, you are hitting on my peeve of "thought crimes". The short answer is yes. Some guys too. Humans are attracted to other humans. Oh Noes. I don't count this as what you deem as a sin.
@sabertooth1980 I am in no position to tell you what to do with that, we should forgive, can I say for sure that I could? No. Either way I hope it works out, or if it already has that it worked out the best it could. It is a sin because it is the root of many sins, if you get rid of the thought the action most definitly won't come out.
Denying another of their rights. the act of imposing thought crimes just to make people feel ashamed for being human, child indoctrination and irresponsible procreation.
@something392 Sin is more or less an ambiguous term really . There are levels of wrongness to particular actions. The religious continuations of the word 'sin' leave me to dropping it all together.
Moral has more secular trappings. What I conciser 'moral' is what benefits both myself and others around me with minimal harm to all parties.
@sabertooth1980 Yes of course there are different levels of sin, but they are still wrong. What I consider moral is putting others before me, with God at the front of everything. Do I do this all the time? No, but that is what I aim for, to be more like Christ and to lead others to Him.
@sabertooth1980 I knew you would ask :P. God would never tell me to kill you, but if He told me to take a bullet for you or something, I would. I listen to God no matter what, but I would ask why He wanted me to kill you, it wouldn't make sense to me.
@sabertooth1980 God in theory could do that, but He won't. God is Loving, Mercifull, and slow to anger, be He is also Just, and He will Judge everyone fairly, He foes not need a human to punish for Him.
@something392 I just realized something horribly Ironic. Something that was brought up in our conversation.
You said that I was insane for having this conversation, after all I have nothing to gain from it and yet I am continuing on with it. That nobody would dedicate this must time to arguing with someone like you.
Yet you keep going on about that the writers of the bible wouldn't have dedicated their lives to their gospels and died for them unless they had something gain from it.
@sabertooth1980 What you are doing: wasting the one and only life you had trying to mess with Christians, just because, no reason really.
Them: Dying because it pleases their god.
Apostels: Dying for to save the souls of their very killers, because they love them.
Now if we were to look at it from a Christian mind set, it makes sense what the Apostels did. If we were to look at it from the tribes perspective, it would make sense. (Continued)
@sabertooth1980 It is not the case of of fundational bbias, but a case of being empathetic. Put your self into their shoes, add the after life into the equation, and their love for Jesus.
@sabertooth1980 From an Atheist perspective what you are doing still makes no sense, you are wasting the one life you believe you have to say "I am right, now nothing happpens."
@sabertooth1980 I think you are paranoid. You keep saying I am using all these tactics to trick you into saying something. I really don't care what you say, I care about what you come to Believe.
And yet another satisfying answer from the faithful. God did it! I didn't see that coming! LOL!
tecnoblix 1 month ago
Isn't it funny that when people in white coats talk about God, they are either cartoons or the jacket fastens up the back?
gabiotta 1 month ago
@gabiotta It is more than just funny, it's gawd damn hilarious.
Remember, when you talk to god, it's prayer.
If god talks to you, it's a schizophrenia. ^.^
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980
It is schizophrenia now, back before Schneider you were beatified by credulous morons who would believe almost anything.
The pillock who you are talking to here, for example... "Like why would she lie? I realise she was in the throws of puberty and had just eaten enough magic mushrooms to freak out Ozzy Osbourrne, but if she say she says she saw Our friggin' Lady then who am I to call her a fraud..."
..ffs..
gabiotta 1 month ago
@gabiotta *watches your videos and cries tears of joy and laughter* That is fucking beautiful. I am now reading your comment and I can hear it in your voice there mate.
Yeah, She doesn't get that humans are fallible beings that can just make shit up or actually kill themselves over the stupidest of beliefs. Oh wait this is a guy.. But they kinda sound like a chick when I am arguing with them...
sabertooth1980 4 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 Merry Christmas, or I guess just happy holidays :D.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Merry stolen pagan holiday.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Thank you :) Nothing wrong with takin a pagan holiday and making it a positive Christian celebration.
something392 1 month ago
"But god made gravity..."
Yeeah, unsubbed. Try not injecting theism into science by fiat next time, yeah?
Fordi 1 month ago
@Fordi Huh. Wasn't subbed in the first place.
Fordi 1 month ago
@Fordi For all the times you wanted to just unsub from a video that was so bad that you forgot that you weren't subbed to begin with.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 I would also like to ask you why you are so against Christians? You read the Bible, surely you see that Jesus' teachings are a good way to live your life?
something392 1 month ago
@something392 You assume alot. I am not just against christians. It only seems such because of the culture I live in.
Next, You can cherry pick what you like from 'jesus's teachings'. Some of what he says is good, some of what he says (in the bible mind you) isn't. He promotes slavery and says that the poor will always be there. He calls a woman a dog and then rewards her.
Besides you can get what jesus taught out of secular means too.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 No, of course I know you are against all Religion and Faith, But I am wondering specically about mine. How does He promote slavery? "the poor will always be there" sad, but it is true, they are still here today. Seriously, you took the dog thing as bad, think about it this is not a negative situation at all. I love how these are the worst things you can think up about Jesus, and they aren't even anything. Clarify the last part please.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong. The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 First of all this parable is refering to Christians who ignore God's command/calling for them, intentional or not, we will be chastised, this can be anything, from stubbing your toe to your car breaking down, whtever gets the message across. Second, not once in this parable did Jesus mention beatings, you are hearing what you want to hear. The last part shows that if some one is given a gift from God they must use it, and to serve the Lord.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 No True Scotsman fallacy.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 How are they no trus scotsman fallicies? Because I looked them over and I don't get it.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 And I love how people who profess to believe in the bible haven't read it. And if you think I am taking it out of context, we can quote the full of the chapter...
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 People almost always profess to know Jesus, not the Bible, they know the Gospels because tey heard them preached, that is all you NEED, but more knowledge is always great. Plus some does not need to read to hear the word, he can listen to testimonies from other Believers that essentially teach the Bible. That's why we go to church as well, to learn.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Again .No True Scotsman Fallacy.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 How do you test the big bang theory in a lab? Seems to me like they are trying and it's not really working. Yes and you can test the Gospels and retest them and there is still no viable evidence that says they aren't valid. The problem with scientists is that they won't accept that some things can't be explained by science, which isn't that bad sometimes. But the problem is when they can't prove it with science they manipulate the story to fit there explanation or they dismiss it
something392 1 month ago
@something392 I'm glad you asked! The primary evidence for the Big Bang Theory (the current model of how the universe formed and has changed over time) comes in the form of: Hubble's law and the expansion of space (the universe is expanding and that expansion is accelerating), Cosmic microwave background radiation (what we could call the "after glow" of the initial rapid expansion of the universe.), (continuing...)
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@something392 and The Galactic evolution and distribution of Galaxies and Quasars. All of these fit the current model and can be used to calculate our universes age, size, and probable future of the universe. Either ice or fire seems to be its fate.
Oh wait, I could be mistaken but in your question you seem to be implying that because scientists haven't created their own little universe that the Theory must be flawed!
Actually I can test the gospels against each other, And they don't match up.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Could you explain more, I am not a scientist as you can see, and to me it seems like this is one big guess. Actually if you had knowledge about acient Greek, and how the language works amongst other things you would see that they match perefectly. And it seems to me that if we can't show you God under a microscope were you can poke at Him and see what He can do, then He can't be real.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 I would like evidence behind your assertion of the greek please.
It seems to you... Aka you are strawmanning me up and misrepresenting me. You are assuming that you can read my mind in any given situation.
Here's the thing. If your god would just come down and present themselves, I wouldn't have to use faith. I would have no recourse but to believe.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Okay, in ancient tradition a story is allowd to varry on secondary details and still be accurate, it was not important to tell it word for word the same, or even in a linear fashion, as long as the main points remain the same. You still didn't explain the big bang more though? Because what you told me sounds like a guess and evidence the universe exists. Are you saying then that this is a pointless unless you see God in person?
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Ah blanket statements about scientists. They won't accept things that can't be explained by science.
Problem there. There are many religious scientists. Many scientists of differing faiths and even scientists who believe that there is a god and that this god created.
But accept the science behind what they study. You should really look into that.
I would like examples please. Otherwise you are just making blind assertions.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Your right, that was rude I generalized all scientists. I was refering to was who hold that the Gospels can't possibly true because they talk about things that aren't HUMANLY possible. And dismiss them right off that bat instead of being open minded. Scientists who blindly agree with things like the Jeus seminar, and who hold theories like "the Disciples were bribed" or "they stole the body" or "Jesus never even existed Christ or not" these are so flawed and ilogical it's insane
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Again you're generalizing with "They talk about things that aren't humanly possible." There are still scientists who are Christians that swallow the whole thing. Hook Line Sinker.
Even the talking snake bit.
Why are these things so flawed and illogical that it is insane? Please, explain.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 The "they" in this comment refers to the Gospels. Thats good, whats you point, I only refer to the scientests I described earlier. Let's start with the Jesus seminar, they have no evidence what so ever backing up what they said, there results have been manipulated to show what they want. Who would have bribed the disciples to make it up? Why? Why would they latter die to keep the secret about the "hoax of the Ressurection?
something392 1 month ago
@something392 You are also assuming that the disciples actually wrote the gospels.
Which they didn't.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Oh but yes they did. And why excatly do you think they would lie about the authors? Doesn't make sense, again 0% motive.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Why do authors write books today? Money.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Yes the authors of the Gospels got LOADS of money for writting the Gospels, and we have tuns of evidence for that. They were exacuted, put to death by sword, hanged, got their heads choped off by an axe, crucified, and crucified upside down.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Oooo. Money.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 How is that usefull to the argument? Or are you still claiming the Disciples got a best seller pay off?
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Stories sell. Now whiles that might not be the only reason, People who believe crazy things, tend to Do crazy things. Even if finding the proposition of dying over a crazy belief seems preposterous to you, there are people who will kill and die for them. That has of course Nothing to do with whether they are true or not.
After all, wouldn't you die for your belief?
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 So what you are saying is that the Disciples made up the entire story to get a best seller payout, and then tricked themselves into believing this was all real, to the point were they gave up all there money and belongings, and proceded to tell other people it was real, being persecuted the whole time, and eventually killed, all for a story they made up hoping they were going to make a fortune? And of course I would die for my beliefs, more importantly though, the Apostels would.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 That could totally happen. And it does too. Course it is kinda retarded to die for ones beliefs.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 So that's all you have to discredit the Gospels? Now where is the evidence, because apparently you can only believe things when there is some. Why is it retarded, put youself into my shoes and it would be stupid not to.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Putting myself in your shoes. And loading, I can't conceeve how I could ever be wrong about this. Of course the bible is true, it says in the bible it is true. You can scoff all you like, the bible says that there would be scoffers. The men who wrote the bible wouldn't have written the bible for Aaaaaany other reason because they died for what they believed in. And only people who die for what they believe in write absolutely true things!
*steps out of your shoes.*
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Hey look now you are strawmanning me! Haha your right that video was usefull. I don't only Believe the Bible because it says so. Agreed on the scoffer thing, but I have to try to help. You have provided no logical reasoning why they would, nor has any one else. Never said that, the fact that they died just shows that they truly Believed in what they died for. Thanks for trying to be empathetic though.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Just because they died for what they believed doesn't mean jack. Nor does it show any validity to what they wrote. Nor does it show that they actually wrote it.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Of course it means something. It shows they Believed what in what they died for, you said that yourself. I never claimed it proved any of those other things.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Well that was mind numbing.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Useless comment. Or is this your way of mocking their death and still holding on to the idea that they got a best seller payout?
something392 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 I'd say you have to make a very small step of Faith with what we know now. You can cross check all I said though, the vast majorities of Scholars and Historians would agree with me.
something392 2 months ago
@something392 Argument from Authority and Majority. The majority of Scientists accept evolution as a viable Scientific Theory. But it doesn't matter that the Majority of Scientists accept it. What matters is the evidence behind it. That we can test it, retest it, reproduce their results and come to viable conclusions based on these results.
No faith (belief without evidence) required!
That is the difference between my stance and yours.
sabertooth1980 2 months ago
@sabertooth1980 And to top it off there is no reason historically or scientifically, or even religously that Jesus did not exist and that He did not fit the mold of the Messiah. And then of course you have common sense. Plus there are no reasonable explanations about these events, other then the ones in the Gospel. And then you have all the people who have felt Jesus in there life and have completly changed because of the Holy Spirit. Also all the miracles preformed by the Saints. Evidence.
something392 2 months ago
@something392 Common Sense tells me that the Sun goes around the earth, that the earth should be a flat surface if I am at ground level, and a good number of other things. Common Sense isn't a reliable source of evidence.
And no. That isn't evidence. Those are bold assertions. Seriously, right now it's like you aren't even trying...
sabertooth1980 2 months ago
@sabertooth1980 actually we do have alot of evidence that Jesus did exist, He was crucified, that the Gospels are reliable documents, that they were not faked, the disciples weren't tricked, that Jesus was not crazy, that He did die on the cross, that He was seen after, the Gospels are backed up by archeology, we have accounts from non-Christians desribing the darkness while Jesus was on the cross, as well as that He was real.
something392 2 months ago
@something392 What a bold assertion. Now back it up with some fucking evidence please.
sabertooth1980 2 months ago
@sabertooth Also it seems like I over looked an argument last time where you were talking the "save the rod, spoil the child" quote. First of all I should pint out that this is advice, no a command, so we as Christians don't NEED to follow. Also it isn't implying that daily beattings are good because they will keep your kid in line. It is just saying that if you fail to punish your kids, then they will be "spoiled".
something392 2 months ago
@something392 No Child should be beaten. And whiles you don't see it as a reason to beat children, Other People Claiming to Be Christians Do. And they do it to the point where some children Die.
Actions Speak Louder Than Words.
sabertooth1980 2 months ago
@sabertooth1980 I know, and it makes me sick that people abbuse there children and use the Bible to support there sick acts, and act like they aren't really twisting the Word and defiling it. To be honest there is not any one that I truely hate in this world, but these people come pretty close.
For some reason people assume evil actions speak louder then good ones. But how but you don't look at how SOME people use the Bible, and instead read it and understand what it is really saying.
something392 2 months ago
@something392 And yet they use the bible to justify their actions.
sabertooth1980 2 months ago
@sabertooth1980 Yes and it makes me sick because they think that is what it is really saying. And just because some use it that way does not meen that is what it is saying.
something392 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Again you want scientific evidencefor souls, you want something you can look at under a microscope and poke at, and if you don't have scientific evidence for it then you dismiss it. But by whose standards are you 'good'.
something392 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@something392 What can be asserted without evidence can be just as easily dismissed.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Backing up what I said would take days of writting, exspeacially sense there are several books on these things, but I encourage you to look it up. I assure you I have read about these things and they pass the toughest scrutiny with flying colors. Hear every side of the story first.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 All we have is time. So. Get cracking.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Well here is all you want to know, have fun :D /books?id=ydVw3pbYZbgC&pg=PT19&lpg=PT19&dq=the+case+for+Christ+the+eyewitness+evidence&source=bl&ots=-iUVtSFV6x&sig=Bm7Q1l0Tnn446KnWdJZTrIx5rwk&hl=en&ei=JgvZTqzeEOnz0gGLvcWrBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CF8Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=the%20case%20for%20Christ%20the%20eyewitness%20evidence&f=true
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Just add books.
go og le.
ca
or com in your case I guess
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Seriously? You are still citing "the case for christ"? And working from eyewitness testimonies?
We've been over this. Eyewitness testimonies are poor evidence if any. All that Eyewitnesses can provide is that 'something' _might_ have happened, as far as the validity of that something actually happening?
People can be fooled, lied to, cave to peer pressure, bullied, bribed and tricked.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 What is wrong with it? Unfortunetly that is the only part I coulf find on google books, but I encourage you to look for the rest, it is rather good. Yes but if they were lying there story would have fell to pieces by now, the next part of the book tests the eyewitness testimonies. It stands up like a rock.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Like a rock doesn't add anything to your argument. And I have gotten good summaries of these different books.
Pretty much just christian appologetics, strawmen and the standard fodder.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Poor simile. Have you ever seen a judge, after concluding the accuracy, dismiss eyewitness testimony? No, it is evidence that supports the Bible, like I said you have your heart set on scientific evidence. And actually archeology supports the Gospels, that's a scientific field I'm pretty sure.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 I have not said that at all. You're strawmanning me.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 I am not strawmanning you, you have said something, now I answered it the best I could. If you want me to stop misunderstanding then be clreal in what you are saying, stop talking like a strawman and I won't treat you like one.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Or maybe you should stop misrepresenting my position all together. You know. Turn the other cheek?
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 I'm not doing it on purpose, I am just answering what you said. Now let's try this again, why do you hate Christianity?
something392 1 month ago
@something392 @something392 See, to me that's a loaded question. I dislike irrational belief structures in general. Christianity just happens to be the one that is pushed a great deal in the country I happen to live in. Was this another country, I would be more vocal about a different one, But cause I live in America, it's Christianity. Then of course there is what it teaches.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Now I understand why you are so out spoken about Christians, I get that. But then you say "irrational belief structures", why are they irrational? Is it because according to science these things can't happen? Or is it the the so called "lack of evidence"?
something392 1 month ago
@something392 I'm going with Lack of Evidence that they did happen.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 but there is not a lack of evidence, the Bible tells us they happened, it has passed all srutiny and tests that challenged it, so there is no reason to doubt it.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Circular reasoning is circular. You can't use the bible to prove the bible.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 No I am using the Gosples (tested eyewitness accounts) to prove that Jesus exists. But look at the corrobarating evidence to if you like.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 The primary center of which is that people are scum and that they need something in their lives otherwise they'll act like scum. So here comes this "solution", the 'solution' says that if you do everything that it says no matter what it does to other people, that after you die you'll go to a fantastic wonderland. Whiles if you don't do what it says, you'll be punished. Even if you don't accept the 'solution'.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 I explained this before I am sure, we as Christians don't believe we are better then you, we were once slaves to sin also, but now we are slaves to Christ our Lord. Sure we still sin, but we try not to, that is the difference, maybe you sin alot, I don't know, but you still need Salvation, we all do. Also I would like to point out that we Believe that following the Law won't get you to Heaven, it was only told to us so we can see our sins and repent, no one can keep it but Jesus.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Yawn. I would like evidence that this jesus and your version of heaven are even real things.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Plenty of evidence for Jesus, but to Believe in my Heaven you need Faith.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Present evidence please. That is all I care about in this talk.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Actually you said youself that your point of arguing is to hone your agumenting skills.
something392 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 You seem to think that you are perfect and deserve to live forever because you are so good, correct me if I am wrong but that is what I understood.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 That would be a negatory. I believe that I am human. I believe that this is the one life I get because I don't have any evidence that shows me otherwise. I am an atheist and I am perfectly capable to doing good deeds without the bribery of your heaven or the threat of your hell. It is as simple as that.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Well you sure do make yourself sound great in your definitions of yourself, I agree we are both humans, but how is that a good excuse for our sins? So you believe this is your only life yet you spend loads of time on youtube arguing? Never said you weren't, I don't do good deeds to get me to Heaven, only Jesus can do that. I do good deeds because that is what the Lord wants, and maybe it will help lead a person or two to Christ. It is simple as that.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 That kinda applies to all the major monotheistic religions, and it isn't asking your pointed question of "why christianity in particular!?".
But it isn't christianity in particular. It's the thought process that was mentioned above. And not only that, but it is the group implementation of it. It's the way that religion high jacks perfectly rational people and gets them into believing batshit crazy things.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Good know I understand you are against the main aspects that all religions have in commen ie. Faith, and people need Salvation. But no one is forced to Believe these things, if they were they wouldn't actually be Christians, etc. But how do you know, sense these people are perfectly rational, that you aren't being irrational?
something392 1 month ago
@something392 No they don't. Faith is belief without evidence. And believing things without any evidence isn't rational. Rational meaning
1. agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible.
2. having or exercising reason, sound judgment, or good sense.
With that definition in place, we can see that there are plenty of people of 'faith' who are irrational. Who don't go to doctors when their children are sick, who rely on faith healers, who go to mega churches and the like.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Like I said before we only need Faith to Believe a few things, we it's not like I am Believing only on a blind whim. Oh look you used a plea to the majority fallacy. Even if some people who have Faith are irrational doesn't meen we all are.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 However you have no good reason for believing what you believe. You might be perfectly rational in everything else you do, but eh! Can't let our rational minds look at this little god box you have. Other wise the god box you have would explode or something.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Of course I have good reason to Believe it, just with the changes I have witnessed in other peoples lives not to mention the changes in my life, I feel I have enough, and then there is much more on top of that. I allow plenty of logic into my "God box", it only strenghens what I Believe.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 And by "no they don't" I am responding to your claim that people 'need' salvation. This term salvation, what does it mean and why do people need it anyway? What if it is all based on a lie? If the foundation of your beliefs stem from a lie that has been perpetuated then the whole of the belief is a lie. And the beliefs collapse, leaving behind the structures of what remain true despite the beliefs you once held.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Salvation is the free gift offered by God to save your self from punishment, all you need to is accept it. If it is a lie then I loose nothing, what if it is true?
something392 1 month ago
@something392 A chap named Pascal already did this. The fallacy of Pascals Wager was born out of it.
Next, why does there need to be punishment to begin with?
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Please answer the question, what happens if I am right? Because we are sinners.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Ah pascals wager. If you are right then I go to hell. Oh noes. But, what if Islam is right? What if the Jewish faith is right? What if the man living on an island who believes in a volcano and rain god is right? What if all those other sects of christianity are right? And it is You whom are wrong?
And I disagree with the statement "We are sinners."
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Good so you know that. Little more than an "oh noes" I think. If they are right than I go to Hell. The other sects still Believe as Jesus as the Messiah, they only disagree on very minor details, or as Pul calls them "disputable matters". So then you are perfect? Never lied? Never stole? Never disobeyed your parents? Never coveted? Never hated? Never looked at a girl with lust? We are all sinners, me and you, and everybody.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Oh look. you have listened to the banana man.
And according to other religions you are going to their hells.
You're failing to explain why I should give a fuck.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Who exactly is the "banana man"? Yes I said that allready. You should care because you claim to be "good", and these things hurt people, so maybe if you do these things your not as good as you think. And maybe it's time for a change.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Ray Comfort.
You haven't provided me with any evidence that hell is a real place. And how is it hurting people?
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 The thoughts them self don't hurt people, but it is when they develope into an action, such as steeling or murder, or even when they develope into words. Ray Comfort, yeah I watched this video of him talking about abortion, rather interesting, all the commenters an in a huge argument.
something392 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Yes I haven't giving you evidence because it is not something of this world, you need Faith, so I gave you an alternate reason why you should care.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Faith is meaningless. We've been over this. I don't believe until evidence is provided. Not The Other Way Around.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Yes you think Faith is meeningless, so I stoped saying sin leads you to Hell, and said that you should care than because it is moraly right, really do you even read what I write?
something392 1 month ago
@something392 You stopped saying sin leads to hell, though you haven't stopped implying it directly.
I don't know. Do YOU read what you write? I mean really, stop, take your fingers from the keyboard, turn around, count to twenty, or have a snack, go outside long enough just to almost forget that you typed something, Come back to the screen, pretend it wasn't you that typed what was there, and read read it.
I find such exercises enlightening.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 You get all touchy and mad when I do, so I stopped saying it. Also sin is imposssible to avoid 100%, that's why we need Jesus. Tha would take a rather long time, and I'm in Canada it's cold out. But really I try to understand what you are saying, so please stop taking things out of context.
something392 4 weeks ago
@something392 You like to project your anger and touchiness on me. I am neither of these things.
sabertooth1980 4 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 I rarely get mad or touchy. Perhaps you have miss read some of my comment? I will admit though I did get rather frustrated a couple times.
something392 3 weeks ago
@something392 Hence you are trying to project your emotions on me.
sabertooth1980 2 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 Just telling the truth, not trying to influence you by them in anyway, just read them in the computers monotone voice if you please. :P
something392 2 weeks ago
@something392 Ooooh Yeah. The "So then you are perfect? Never lied? Never stole? Never disobeyed your parents? Never coveted? Never hated? Never looked at a girl with lust? We are all sinners, me and you, and everybody."
Perfect is a relative term that has no real meaning.
I make it a point not to lie, but it's happened anyway. Oh noes. People lie.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Perfect can be many things, depends on the person though, I am talking about never breaking the Biblical Law perfect (i.e Jesus).
something392 1 month ago
@something392 *snirks*
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@something392 In the Aztec empire, the winning team of the ritual ball-game got to be sacrificed to Quetzalcoatl. Why would they train and volunteer and play in those games, knowing fully well that their prize for winning would be death, if Quetzalcoatl wasn't real. They had nothing to gain and everything to lose by claiming Quetzalcoatl was their god. Their actions make absolutely, definitively, no sense unless it was true. Wait, I've heard this argument before for other gods...
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Now for the last time I will tell you, the fact that the Gospels writers and Apostels died shows one thing THEY BELIEVED IN WHAT THEY DIED FOR. Again you don't listen to what I am saying, sense they died we can deduce that they weren't making a hoax, or steeling the body, or getting bribbed, or they weren't just storry tellers.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 And so do the muslims, and the aztecs, and a good number of myters. What? Where their deaths and beliefs meaningless?
So let me see if I get this right.
Crazy Christians: Wrote books/manifestos and died for what they believed.
Must be the truth. They died for what they believed.
Any other Religion: Wrote books/manifestos and died for what they believed.
Those People were CRAZY!
LOLWut?
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 My goodness you are blind. The fact that they died proves nothing other then that they Believed in what they died for! It is not proof of the existence of God, it is proof of their sincere belief. Point finale.
something392 4 weeks ago
@something392 I am making a note of this because, well you keep going on and on about how the authors of the bible wouldn't do what they did unless they had something to gain from it.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Thats not what I am claiming, I claimed that the Martirs Believed in what they died for, I claimed nothing else.
something392 4 weeks ago
@something392 Then you are saying that the maryters of other religions' can't justify their claims of their gods being true?
sabertooth1980 4 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 I am saying their death's just show that they truely believed.
something392 3 weeks ago
@something392 However that doesn't show what they believed to be true.
sabertooth1980 2 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 Yes that was what I was trying to tell you. But it does eliminate the ideas of them making it up as a hoax, being bribed, etc. etc..
something392 2 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 That is good, try not to lie, yes we do sin, and we should repent because it is bad, it effects people negativly. Now how much more good you could do if you had the Holy Spirit and if you followed Him.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Yawn. That's right try using guilt tactics to lower me into submission. Sorry missy. That sort of stuff don't work on me.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 What guilt tactics? I am not trying anything. I am a guy by the way, not a missy.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 You act like a missy, though there is nary any shame in that.
But let's go with the whole guilt tactic thing.
I am human. And there are things that humans do. One of them is want things.
You are telling me it is wrong to want thing, no! worse than that it is a "sin", something so wrong that doing it will harm not only myself but others and will cause me to be put somewhere terrible after I die.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 It's not nice to generalize women like that. There is a difference between wanting and coveting, look at my earlier comments please.
something392 4 weeks ago
@something392 The difference being?
sabertooth1980 4 weeks ago
@something392 That is a guilt tactic, a shame tactic and a threat dressed up as what you are trying to pawn off as an act of compassion.
After all, how is telling someone that they are going to drop into a deep hole that is infront of them a bad thing? And there are different ways of doing it too! You could threaten them, or cry at them or shout at them to get their attention.
But what if there isn't a hole? Then you look like an ass.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Really I am just trying to help you. If there isn't a hole then I am just simply dead, and I won't have a concious mind to feel stupid with. Now, if you are right then nothing happens, if I am right, as it stands right now I get internity and you get punishment, I am concerned for you.
something392 4 weeks ago
@something392 Ah emotional blackmail. I am not trying to threaten you, I am looking out for your well being! After all if you don't pray to my god something bad is going to happen to you! And it will be all your fault!
Now for the mortal equivalent.
The gang that is offering the owner of a store "protection".
sabertooth1980 4 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 The difference is that I really don't gain anything unless God choses to reward me. But I don't get anything from you.
something392 3 weeks ago
@something392 Stolen.. Once or twice, Nothing major. After I moved out of my parents house... nothing at all.
Coveted. Now we are talking thought crimes. How can you stop from wanting things? Wanting things is a part of human nature. How is Wanting things something that hurts others? If anything it helps others due to the fact that now that you want something you might go out and Buy it.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 You have stolen? Than repent, ask forginess. How do you stop wanting things that aren't yours? Be thankfull for what you have, don't wish you had something that belongs to the another person, these bring up thoughts of anger and spite. No, if you can buy it then it can belong to you, it is something that is yours but you have not yet bought it. Think of it more singular than plural, there is a difference from "I want that ", to "I want his _, it it should be mine"
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Why? I'm going to go with no. There are things, I will want them. Sure I'll be happy that I have things, but hey, there are always going to be more things.
How does this bring up thoughts of anger and spite?
There isn't anything wrong with wanting things.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 But it becomes a sin when it belongs to another, and is not yours. If I think your car should be mine and I deserve it and you don't, I will become frustrated, angry, jealous, I will covet. And as you may observe these feelings very often cause murder.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Yawn. Problem. Law Officals. Just because you want something that you can't have doesn't mean that you will go out murdering people who have it to get it. It is something that *might* happen, but it doesn't mean that It _will_ happen.
What's more interesting is that more than often your efforts to make people not do something go counter if you tell them they CANNOT do it.
It's their way of thumbing their nose at you and going "Nanananana! Looook what I am doing!"
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@something392 Also. You're using the wrong word. "Then". Not 'than'. Than is a grammatical particle analyzed as both a conjunction and a preposition in the English language. It introduces a comparison, and is associated with comparatives and with words such as more, less, and fewer. Typically, it measures the force of an adjective or similar description between two predicates.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Okay thanks.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Hated? That is a rare thing for me, but yeah, there is one person I can think of whom I can say I hate. Course he tried to strangle me whiles he was drunk, so hate is a good reaction here.
Looked at another in lust, along with coveting (wanting) and hating, you are hitting on my peeve of "thought crimes". The short answer is yes. Some guys too. Humans are attracted to other humans. Oh Noes. I don't count this as what you deem as a sin.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 I am in no position to tell you what to do with that, we should forgive, can I say for sure that I could? No. Either way I hope it works out, or if it already has that it worked out the best it could. It is a sin because it is the root of many sins, if you get rid of the thought the action most definitly won't come out.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 You know what I would call a sin?
Denying another of their rights. the act of imposing thought crimes just to make people feel ashamed for being human, child indoctrination and irresponsible procreation.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Can you be more specific on what you would call sin please?
something392 1 month ago
@something392 Sin is more or less an ambiguous term really . There are levels of wrongness to particular actions. The religious continuations of the word 'sin' leave me to dropping it all together.
Moral has more secular trappings. What I conciser 'moral' is what benefits both myself and others around me with minimal harm to all parties.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 Yes of course there are different levels of sin, but they are still wrong. What I consider moral is putting others before me, with God at the front of everything. Do I do this all the time? No, but that is what I aim for, to be more like Christ and to lead others to Him.
something392 1 month ago
@something392 If god told you to kill me would you do it?
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 I knew you would ask :P. God would never tell me to kill you, but if He told me to take a bullet for you or something, I would. I listen to God no matter what, but I would ask why He wanted me to kill you, it wouldn't make sense to me.
something392 4 weeks ago
@something392 Then there is something that your god can't do?
sabertooth1980 4 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 God in theory could do that, but He won't. God is Loving, Mercifull, and slow to anger, be He is also Just, and He will Judge everyone fairly, He foes not need a human to punish for Him.
something392 3 weeks ago
@something392 You can't be just and merciful.
sabertooth1980 2 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 Yes God can meat Salvation aka Jesus Christ.
something392 2 weeks ago
@something392 Meet**
something392 2 weeks ago
@something392 mmmmm Meat.
sabertooth1980 2 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 Haha at least I caught myself though :P.
something392 2 weeks ago
@something392 I just realized something horribly Ironic. Something that was brought up in our conversation.
You said that I was insane for having this conversation, after all I have nothing to gain from it and yet I am continuing on with it. That nobody would dedicate this must time to arguing with someone like you.
Yet you keep going on about that the writers of the bible wouldn't have dedicated their lives to their gospels and died for them unless they had something gain from it.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@something392 Thus.
Me spending time doing something that seems without reward and not dying for it: Insane.
Them, spending time doing something that you deemed without reward and then dying for it. Insane.
Course you are going to come back and argue that they were 'spreading the good news' or some garble like that.
However I just find this tidbit ironic.
sabertooth1980 1 month ago
@sabertooth1980 What you are doing: wasting the one and only life you had trying to mess with Christians, just because, no reason really.
Them: Dying because it pleases their god.
Apostels: Dying for to save the souls of their very killers, because they love them.
Now if we were to look at it from a Christian mind set, it makes sense what the Apostels did. If we were to look at it from the tribes perspective, it would make sense. (Continued)
something392 4 weeks ago
@something392 Translation. If you put on your Bible Glasses, the crazy things that these people did makes sense!
Foundational Bias. Remember that first logical fallacy?
sabertooth1980 4 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 It is not the case of of fundational bbias, but a case of being empathetic. Put your self into their shoes, add the after life into the equation, and their love for Jesus.
something392 3 weeks ago
@something392 Did this. Nothing happened
sabertooth1980 2 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 Then you are lacking empathy.
something392 2 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 From an Atheist perspective what you are doing still makes no sense, you are wasting the one life you believe you have to say "I am right, now nothing happpens."
something392 4 weeks ago
@something392 My life to waste.
sabertooth1980 4 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 True, your life. Still I don't get it.
something392 3 weeks ago
@something392 See, I realize you are trying use the tantamount of reverse psychology. And once that happens. well... it just doesn't work anymore...
sabertooth1980 4 weeks ago
@sabertooth1980 I think you are paranoid. You keep saying I am using all these tactics to trick you into saying something. I really don't care what you say, I care about what you come to Believe.
something392 3 weeks ago
@something392 I believe based on the evidence that I have no reason to believe that this god you speak of exists. Therefore I don't believe.
sabertooth1980 2 weeks ago