Zeitgeist Addendum: Evolve, don't abolish.

[DustinLT1985]

More specifically, even if machines slowly displaced only a large minority of people, expanding unemployment, the ramifications would be systemic, and the entire economic system would grow more and more unstable and inoperable.

[DustinLT1985]

Regardless of your opinion, the fact is, the pattern of constant technological

improvement coupled with automated machinery can theoretically create an economic environment where the abundance of materials and production mediums are so high and efficient, most humans will have little need to ‘purchase’ anything, let alone ‘work for a living’, in the traditional sense.

[DustinLT1985]

The evolution, application and interpretation of Economics are staggeringly large bodies of material with endless debate. It is

not in the interest of this manual to present a treatise on the whole of Economics. In fact, a partial basis of this manual is to

show how, through the advent of Technology and the elimination of Scarcity, 99% of all economic theory is now an outdated

and irrelevant practice.- A.O.G.

[DustinLT1985]

Keep in mind all of the authors you have cited did not anticipate the advanced technology we have today considering all of them were from the late 19th to early 20th century.

[DustinLT1985]

So I wanna hear your Proposition for fixing the problems around the world? If your gonna criticize something you have to provide an alternative.

[gunsandbullhorns]

@DustinLT1985

No sir. I do NOT have to provide an alternative in order to criticize something. That is a dishonest slogan which is used to fend-off criticism. For example, I do not know how to train a dog to sit, but I DO know that yelling at it is not going to accomplish that objective.

The solutions to the worlds problems are as diverse as the problems are. If you'd like to discuss possible solutions to individual problems, then you need to be specific. Name a specific problem.

[DustinLT1985]

@gunsandbullhorns From an uneducated perspective no you do not have to provide an alternative. From an educated perspective it is an absolute YES you do have to provide an alternative. Your making yourself look like another brainwashed fool with a web cam, even though I do understand that is not your intent. If you do not like what the venus project is advocating explain why and explain what you would do differently. Simply saying that something is just fucking stupid is a complete waste of time

[DustinLT1985]

You also need to do a lot more research on the venus project because you have the definition of total collapse completely wrong. Total collapse of the current BANKING MONETARY system NOT the current government. Once the new governmental and societal systems would be up and running the old ones would be faded out. I want to hear your proposition for world hunger? I want to hear your ideas on stopping the genocide that's going on in the middle east?

[DustinLT1985]

I want to hear what you think should be done about our current economic system that is on the verge of collapse? I want to hear what you think should be done about the oil crisis or how exactly were going to convert the planet from oil to renewable energy? or how exactly the worlds economy is supposed to keep going if we use renewable energy? I hope you get what I'm saying. Making a youtube video voicing your opinions is ok but you need to criticize in an intelligent way.

[gunsandbullhorns]

@DustinLT1985

QUOTE: "Nothing? Stop posting uses videos that make you look like an uneducated fool."

You are about one strike away from being blocked. You asked about 2½ reasonable questions, amongst a bunch of ad hominem stuff that I don't care to respond to, and a bunch of other problems which should not be dealt with in such broad terms. I told you to name *A* specific problem — I did NOT tell you to name a handful of classes of problems. Follow directions, eh?

[DustinLT1985]

@gunsandbullhorns Block me! I could really care less because I HAVE A REAL LIFE.. I asked you a simple question and because you are so uneducated you attempted to jump around any type of answer and you provided me with a question. NOW you are threatening me and attempting to make my questions look half ass BECAUSE you have no idea how to answer them without making yourself look like swiss cheese. Get off the battleground if you cant fight the battle bud.

[justintempler]

@DustinLT1985 start here:

mises. org

Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt

[DustinLT1985]

@justintempler Okay so your referring me to an Economist that was alive and wrote most of his work 60 years ago when the national debt was just a couple billion. So what happened to inflation 60-65 years and 14.5 trillion dollars later?

[justintempler]

@DustinLT1985 " So what happened to inflation 60-65 years and 14.5 trillion dollars later?"

They ignored what he wrote in his book? You might actually try reading the book, you might learn something.

[DustinLT1985]

@justintempler I read enough to know what he was trying to get at and he was wrong. Maybe you should answer my question yourself instead of trying to direct me towards a writer with an agenda.

[justintempler]

@DustinLT1985 The results of 60 years of inflation proved what he wrote back in 1949 was correct. He explains it to you right there in black and white BEFORE the inflation and deficits that you are whining about happened. If you want to remain an economic illiterate that's your choice. I gave you an nice easy beginners book so you would understand some basics. If you don't even understand the basics of economics then having a conversation about economics with you is a waste of both of ours time

[DustinLT1985]

@justintempler how long is it going to take people like yourself to realize that the economic system people have been living in is an OUTDATED WASTE OF TIME so stop sourcing the dead economist and crediting yourself with HIS knowledge. I understand you want to have a conversation about economics but your acting like you have eternal knowledge about economics because you read a book. Discussing economics is a complete waste of time because there are many other issues that hold greater importance.

[justintempler]

@DustinLT1985 ec·o·nom·ics (k-nmks, k-)

n.

1. (used with a sing. verb) The social science that deals with the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services and with the theory and management of economies or economic systems

So tell me genius what system do you propose to meet peoples needs? Do you have some way that doesn't involve economics? It takes prices to detrmine what 7 billion people want (or do you propose to have brain implants connected to some master computer?)

[DustinLT1985]

@justintempler Yes a social science that obviously needs an update because the system it has created is falling apart lol. Twenty five years ago prices were a determining factor for what people wanted, and then people invented this thing called the internet where people go to look for what they want. A government would still need to be in place but it would be true elected officials from different fields of science and engineering.

[DustinLT1985]

Agriculture would need to be localized first, and then manufacturing of goods could be localized. A global internet system should be set in place where people can input what they NEED and want, and that need would be produced from the best materials possible and they would be easily recyclable.

[DustinLT1985]

Proper educational programs, environmental programs, renewable energy programs, and resource management programs would all need immediate attention and they can all be easily dealt with once money is abolished.

[justintempler]

@DustinLT1985 A government with 7 billion people plugged into the internet? Are you insane? Enjoy your cult, cya.,

[DustinLT1985]

@justintempler Did you not understand that manufacturing and agriculture would be localized so when you plug something into the internet it is made or grown for you and you can pick it up. Enjoy my cult? First off I am a single person who is a student and enjoys researching ALL aspects of life therefore I am not part of ANY cult. I am a young person that wants change for MY future. I understand that your 54 year old fart that doesn't have much left to go in the first place and that's okay.

[DustinLT1985]

@justintempler You sir need to grow the fuck up and find a life. Going on youtube so you can attempt to squash dreams and ideas of younger people is immature and wrong. I'm young and I want change in the world that I'm planning on living in for the next thirty years so stop trying to make me feel bad for having my own perspective. Your a supposed anarchist yet your here on an established web browser trying to argue for an established economic system, and by the way books dont make you smart.

[DustinLT1985]

@justintempler Its how you interpret the information.

[DustinLT1985]

@justintempler so what do you propose?

[gunsandbullhorns]

@DustinLT1985

I propose you start reading econ books that people suggest, so that you can be at least familiar with the arguments, and sort of familiar with the theory behind those arguments. We've taken the time to read Zeitgeist literature. If you want to argue with Austrians, then you ought to be familiar with Austrian literature. Otherwise you're just wasting everybody's time.

Austrian Economic Theory was not responsible for the Keynesian Economic Policy which got us in this mess.

[DustinLT1985]

@gunsandbullhorns I asked you a SIMPLE four questions and I have yet to receive an answer. How would the economic system you believe in be put into place with the current turmoil that is happening?

[gunsandbullhorns]

@DustinLT1985

The solution to all of those problems is as follows:

1) Individual Property Rights

2) Total and uninhibited freedom of exchange between consenting parties

Recommended Reading: "For A New Liberty" by Murray N. Rothbard

[DustinLT1985]

@gunsandbullhorns Ok so how exactly are those solutions supposed to work? Don't refer me to a book where someone is voicing their opinions I want YOUR OPINIONS!!!!! and I want to hear exactly how this would work? I typed out a pretty extensive explanation about my perspective now I want the same effort out of you. I haven't received one solid credible argument from ANY critics of a RBE and I'm still waiting

[gunsandbullhorns]

@DustinLT1985

This video was made before the A.O.G. came out, numbnuts. Prior to the A.O.G., the RBE was uncritiqueable because it was just a vague utopian vision.

I'll refer you to Pages 6-7 of the Activist Orientation guide. The Theoretical RBE is based on the (woefully incorrect) Labour Theory of Value, and a conflation of the concepts of Money-price, Cost & Value. That's my crititicism of the RBE. The foundation on which it's reasoned is incorrect.

[DustinLT1985]

@gunsandbullhorns And I do not care when the video came out because I'm asking you NOW how your theory of economics would help our world. I also love how you paint any type of advanced civilization as a vague Utopian vision. Opposed to your outdated beliefs of economics that come from the European industrial revolution. Excuse me for living in the 21st century where technology is abundant and we can easily improve our world without economics.

[gunsandbullhorns]

@DustinLT1985

You're blocked, ass-hole. You ask too many question at once, and then whenever I address one of your questions, you act like I'm dodging the rest. I read Zeitgeist literature regularly. I read it along-side all sorts of stuff that I agree with, and stuff I disagree with as well. You refuse to learn, and so you're not worth my time.

[DustinLT1985]

@gunsandbullhorns So if you have taken time to read all of the zeitgeist literature than why are you having such a hard time describing what Jacque fresco is actually proposing? You have missed every aspect of what they are proposing like the collapse of the monetary system, ignoring our politics, educating children, and so on. If you had read the literature and properly digested it this conversation would not be going on. I propose you go back and take a look so YOU can a tleast be familiar

[DustinLT1985]

with the arguements

[justintempler]

@DustinLT1985 "A government would still need to be in place but it would be true elected officials"

TZM/TVP arguments don't involve having governments or elected officials. You are not even familiar with YOUR OWN arguments, that's why trying to have a discussion with you is a waste of time. We know your position better than you do.

[DustinLT1985]

Instead of A problem I named a handful GET OVER IT you should be educated enough to answer a couple questions.. You are not any type of authority over me IN ANY WAY so no I will not FALLOW you in any way

[DustinLT1985]

and by the way why in the hell do we elect people into office? to solve problems and manage the system

[Stillillgal]

well... jacque reffers the "collapes" to when people will no longer bealive in the money system...

and i dont want to change it cos it's not my type of thing....

its about human suffering next to healthy rich cock suckers

somthing is wrong

[gunsandbullhorns]

@Stillillgal

Really? Hmmm... I was unaware of that. I always thought he meant "collapse" in a catastrophic sense.

[gunsandbullhorns]

@voiceofreason467

I'm not gonna' waste my time explaining how I can justifiably DMCA you. If you're so damned sure you're correct, then don't waste your time arguing with me. I'm not threatening to censor you for criticizing me you dense motherfucker. I'm threatening you because I don't want to waste my time on the small-potatoes criticisms. Stop second-guessing my intentions. I demand a response to my A.O.G. criticisms. That is my one and ONLY demand from you.

[gunsandbullhorns]

@voiceofreason467

If you use my vid and my voice without permission, I can DMCA you. I want a response to my A.O.G. series. That's what I want. I made myself very clear. I never complained about anything, so quit trying to second-guess ulterior motives on my part.

[gunsandbullhorns]

@voiceofreason467

GOOD. Respond to my Activist Orientation Guide criticisms next. If you don't respond to this, then I'll block you and come after you for sampling my vid without permission. I'm serious. Don't waste your time with the other stuff. I want a response to my A.O.G. criticisms.

[mosaicmaster1]

Pay no mind to the guy two flights down.Not everyone can be educated.

[gunsandbullhorns]

@mosaicmaster1

Naw, I was joking. That guy is just a troll. He's got nothing to do with the Z-Movement.

[mosaicmaster1]

You said it yourself polititions create problems.9 trillion dollars worth of problems.And the system doesn't have to collapse, It will collapse.

[gunsandbullhorns]

@mosaicmaster1

Which system? In what quality will it collapse?

[mosaicmaster1]

@gunsandbullhorns The currency system.Inflation will detiriorate the dollar to the point that it becomes worthless.this is called Hyperflation.

[gunsandbullhorns]

@mosaicmaster1

It sounds to me like you're talking about about the US-Dollar. If the US-Dollar fails, that doesn't mean the system will collapse.

[mosaicmaster1]

@gunsandbullhorns Would a global currency be the same system.

[gunsandbullhorns]

@mosaicmaster1

It depends. If it's the Global Currency that the establishment has been promoting for the last 80 years, then the answer is "yes".

[mosaicmaster1]

@gunsandbullhorns When you say establishment,Do you mean the illuminati.

[gunsandbullhorns]

@mosaicmaster1

Well... That really depends on how you define "illuminati". I'm definitely talking about the New World Order, but when I speak of the NWO I'm talking about a movement, and not specific people. ...although it's comprised of families from the Old World Order.

That One-world currency would screw us up pretty badly, but the architects of that system have their head in the clouds. They want control, but they fail to understand the extent to which they CAN'T control trade.

[mosaicmaster1]

@gunsandbullhorns The NWO is the illuminati.The word illuminati seems to be tabu.Most people rather use other names for it.Its right now and money controls everything, could large amounts of money control trade.The U.S likes to Put puppets in areas that don't cooperate.

[polopowers2]

Nice neck beard fagget. LOL Ima firin up mah dick in your slimy loose tooth mouth. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM­MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM­MMMMMMMM FUCK NIGGERS AND FAGGOTS LIKE YOU!

God bless!

[gunsandbullhorns]

@polopowers2

Typical Z-movement fanatic. You're blocked.

[nocheconsol]

Here again, i think you missinterpreted Mr. Fresco. The system falling apart is more of a change of heart. Instead of being driven by wealth and comfort, be geared towards social betterment and equality. That represents a new system. And there's nothing wrong with giving up with something that doesnt work in the first place. it is best to drop it and stop wasting time on it. Time that would be better spent on empowering society and living in harmony with the earth and its resources.

[gunsandbullhorns]

@nocheconsol

But the system DOES work, and it's screwing us royally. Your support of the system is extracted through taxes on your labour and your purchases. You can't "drop out" of the system as long as you're transacting within it. How is ignoring politicians going to make the problems go away as long as the government can force us at gunpoint to trade and pay taxes with their funny-money?

[BeyondDGrave]

I prefer to give up on the system ;)

It is not worth the time invested.

[gunsandbullhorns]

@BeyondDGrave

Well... that would be my stance as well, if it would make the system go away. But unfortunately it wouldn't go away. That's why it's my problem, and that's why I advocate getting *more* involved — not less.

What do you think of the idea of voluntary government? ...which pretty much means that you would have the right to opt out of the system, or subscribe to a better system (if one exists)?

[BeyondDGrave]

Getting "involved" means that you acknowledge the relevancy of the system to begin with... instead, supercede it. As the video states... evolve.

The voluntary government is an interesting concept.

[gunsandbullhorns]

Yes. I acknowledge the relevance of the system. That's my point. It exists — and the fact that it exists has a relevant impact upon *my* existence.

Surely, you're not arguing that a problem will go away just by refusing to acknowledge its relevance. Right?

How do you propose to "supercede it" or "evolve"?

[BeyondDGrave]

@gunsandbullhorns

Step 1) Mass Awareness.

Through mass awareness we will begin to hone our message of non-violence and real change.

Step 2) Dis-acknowledgment of irrelevant institutions. This means peaceful non-participation. This step occurs at the climax of mass awareness however.

Step 3) The invention of ideas rather than legislation: Instead of posting signs saying to "behave, or else".. we figure ways to design these problems away.

[BeyondDGrave]

@gunsandbullhorns

For example, instead of posting signs on the road saying "Speed limit: 55mph", we instead create mass efficient transportation going from large city to large city. This will also alleviate traffic on the road.. Think about that the next time you are stuck in traffic.. ;) I do :)

ps: To travel to the mass transportation, we could mass-produce electric vehicles to take you from your home to the mass transportation vehicles/trains.

[gunsandbullhorns]

@BeyondDGrave

Step 1) Agreed. All revolutions begin with the transmission of an idea.

Step 2) Agreed. It's at this point that a law or system becomes "irrelevant" — when nobody is willing to honor or coöperate with it. An example being the Soviet Union just before the collapse.

Step 3) I disagree. Without Legislation (written law) Law-enforcement becomes arbitrary. Written law is the standard by which we judge who has the right to intervene, and the ways in which they are allowed to do so.

[gunsandbullhorns]

continued...

The 55mph Speed-limit is ridiculous. The only reason we have that is because the gov't passed a law requiring us to be LICENSED to drive an automobile, and then they wasted our tax-dollars on building crappy roads. Then they use our tax-dollars to pay "Law Enforcement" to harass us, and take our wealth if we drive "too fast". The state just wants to take our wealth and control our lives. The highway system we have today is a prime example of Gov't inefficiency.

[gunsandbullhorns]

continued...

There are a million possible alternatives we could dream-up that would work better than the system we have now. My question to you is this:

What is preventing us from having efficient transportation systems right now?

It's the damn government! They're in bed with the Energy & Automotive Industries. It's ILLEGAL to build a better transportation system without getting permission from the government!!! In order to get permission, you have to play their game, and screw the consumer!

[BeyondDGrave]

@gunsandbullhorns

Exactly! You see as well as I that it is the game set up that is wrong.

Instead of cooperating and playing by their games, wasting our time and lives... we will treat them the same way we do a spoiled child.. by telling them "No." and disacknowledging their cries.

It's time we stopped playing games and grew up as a society.

[FratMusic]

TheRealBeefStake's point, that is

[saxbeast4]

if we all used the logic expressed in the video above, we would still be living under kings and queens trying to evolve them, under this logic things like the french revolution would be seen as wrong, some things that happened during the revolution that are terrible but if they hadnt destroyed the system they were living in then they would never have built the new france, every time there is a shift in governmental systems the old one is abolished, thought that was pretty obvious in history clas

[gunsandbullhorns]

Ha ha ha! Oh jeez...

You hit the nail right on the head, but there was a knot in the wood, and the nail still bent.

You're absolutely right that according to my logic, the French Revolution was "wrong".

The French Monarchy was abominable, but that doesn't mean the French Revolution was a good thing.

The birth of Scientism (divorce of science from philosophy), the Buonaparte régime, the subsequent reinstitution of the monarchy, Napoléon II...

THESE are the fruits of the French Revolution.

[gunsandbullhorns]

I think your History class was slanted. But this is to be expected in the gov't indoctrination camps which we call "school".

RECOMMENDED READING: part II of 'The Counter-Revolution of Science' by F.A. Hayek. You can find it online. It's a historical perspective on the intellectual climate in France, pre- and post-revolution. It's VERY relevant to the debate between Laissez-faire Liberalism and Social Engineering of the Z-Movement.

[saxbeast4]

ty for the reading ill look it up

[saxbeast4]

you right, there was a lot wrong with the revolution in how it was carried out, but they still abolished the monarchy and eventaully made it to a democracy and modern france, but they first had to destroy the old government before they could make the democracy

[TheRealBeefStake]

+1 to arguement below.

I believe the point on politicians was we shouldn't -look- to them so solve our problems. Yes it's idiotic to do so as you pointed out but many still do.

Abolishing the system is important though.

Say for instance the x86 PC architecture.

It has been around since the 80s and is backwards compatible that far.

This limits their performance and usefulness.

The future is in x64 and beyond, new systems that are not backwards compatible or established.

[yavin4jc]

The argument that the current system needs to collapse is because it's self perpetuating:

When something become scarce, people compete for it. That competition (rather than working together) creates inefficiency. And that inefficiency creates more scarcity.

The resource based system is about working together and eliminating scarcity. And eliminating scarcity eliminates money.

[FratMusic]

why won't the creator of the video counter this point? lol

[gunsandbullhorns]

@FratMusic

I didn't address the point because it's riding on a ludicrous claim. Competition does NOT create inefficiency. The exact OPPOSITE is true.

[FratMusic]

How is it ludicrous? I'm pretty sure there have been studies that show how collaboration and working together leads to more fruitful results rather than everyone hoarding their information and ideas. Take the idea of having to compete for marketshare; companies are forced to cut costs, cut corners, and turn out a cheaper product because they are in COMPETITION with other companies, and if they can't put out a reasonably priced product, very few will be sold and they lose.

[gunsandbullhorns]

Ha ha ha!!! FratMusic, you just made my day.

Yes, I agree with everything you just said. What you are describing is called "efficiency". It maximizes utility, while minimizing waste. Competition is what drives technological innovation. You advocate the Venus Project, right?

Compare competitive industries like computers & electronics to uncompetitive industries such as energy (oil, coal & solar), automotive, banking, etc. Do you notice anything?

[FratMusic]

Right, energy is an INDUSTRY. Energy is completely abundant in the natural world, but the established companies are doing what is necessary to maintain their power (aka suppress new technologies that would make them obsolete). Energy abundance = no money to be made. Therefor it's probably not going to happen in our current system. I will reiterate the point - peak efficiency and abundance are the ENEMIES of the profit system, given the basic economic theory of value.

[fingtyin]

"Try to fix this system and make it work for us, so that you can push it in that direction. Don't fucking give up on this system just because it's not going your way, it's fucking immature."

First of all, I would never support a system that inherently produces war, poverty and crime. Secondly, if you wish to change something you can't contribute to it's current state. You have to deconstruct it and recreate it in the way you desire.

[fingtyin]

If you wish to construct a new building on a certain location, you have to demolish and remove the old building on that area.

A ruler as no more power than the people gives him. If they decide to ignore him, he is powerless.

[EnveBeats]

Ur the Bitch that Needs Control!! Not All of us<<

[EnveBeats]

FUCK SYSTEMS!!!

[EnveBeats]

So you Believe in Money??? Money id Real??

[crazymaybe04]

Get a job you fucking bum!

[gunsandbullhorns]

I've got a job. I get paid to sit on my ass and read books. You ought to try it some time.

[crazymaybe04]

Awesome! You read books.

I just don't buy into the conspiracy bullshit of Zeitgeist. If you ever wanted to change a system you need to be taken seriously and the Zeitgeist films have followers that present themselves like outspoken duds. There may be merit in having intelligent discussions about Technocracies or The Venus Project but I feel Zeitgeist may have tainted that image by justifying it with dumb conspiracy theories.

[murderrapelove]

hah! Get out of here you common douche.

[crazymaybe04]

Douche? You're more common than I am 'Johnny'... Maybe there's a good reason to why most conspiracy theories are based in America... In Australia I think I heard one conspiracy theory, and that was that the Bali bombings were a black flag operation - now am I supposed to believe every bombing against Westerners is a black flag operation now?

You stupid cunt.

[murderrapelove]

I'm sorry, the point I was trying to make is that until you emerge from the security blanket of what you are convinced is the "mainstream", it doesn't matter what you believe. Your perspective is another redundant satellite expression of the oligopolist corporate media. You represent just another inconsequential drop in the ocean whereas it is those who make the waves that matter.

That's what I meant by "get out of here you COMMON douche", the "common" part was meant to be emphatic..

[stygiant]

"Th-th-the corporations! Th-th-the media! It's all evil lies backed by the, uhh, corporate agenda! You're just another one of their common pawns, I KNOW THE TRUTH! We are the revolution!"

[murderrapelove]

haha, nice. So what's up? Do you think that the corporate media represents your views and not vice-versa?

[stygiant]

No way man. Those CORPORATE MEDIA FASCIST PIGS would never represent my revolutionary views, they too are just pawns funded and controlled by higher powers that would never allow my word to get out.

(I have no idea what you were trying to ask but I hope that answers your question)

[gunsandbullhorns]

Hey, I'm curious what you think of this... watch?v=vsPABOQTsAM can you give us some feedback?

[murderrapelove]

controlled by higher powers? Oh yea? And what are these "higher powers" you're convinced of?

[crazymaybe04]

Ah so you are a pompous wanker after all! Your responses show no practical points, your words are just fluff and really mean nothing. You basically prove my point earlier, you come off as an outspoken dud.

You represent waves that matter? Don't make me laugh. Your attitude and efforts will change NOTHING. Every person and their opinion is important, else POSITIVE change is impossible. The objective is to make the world better for everyone, not just for you.

I pity you, I really do.

[murderrapelove]

Dude, it's a game of memes where a diversity of broader perspectives out-compete and thus override the filtered perspectives your masters would otherwise prefer we all be subjected to.

We're the ones that keep your masters working hard for you. The corporate media will never expose you to truth unless they feel like it will inevitably be exposed regardless by the free market. If you aren't playing the game, then you are neutral, if you don't believe that the media filters reality, lucky you.

[stygiant]

Holy shit man, I totally agree with you. When I tell people my perspective they just stare at me blankly as if they have microchips already installed in their brains to filter out my words and censor the truth. It's a good thing you guys are spreading the word and override these peoples' shadow government super secret programming scheme. I think hearing the truth too many times short circuits the microchips or something. (I'm not good with electronics but that's what my friend Jeremy tells me)

[murderrapelove]

That's funny, when I talk to people I get emphatic agreement. The difference is that apparently you are a "conspiracy theorists" like they show on TV. Why do you think of microchips being implanted in heads? Where'd you even get that idea? I'll tell you that 99.9% of the truth movement--those who you and your masters refer to as "tin foil hatters"--have no clue what the hell that's all about and couldn't care less. How do you think you are pre-filled with all these preconceptions?

[stygiant]

They showed the truth about the government microchips in Zeitgeist, man, unless... Unless you didn't actually watch it- oh shit! You're one of THEM! I should've known better than to post on YouTube! Shit, I can hear them at my door! You sold me out, man! You sold me out! You can't silence THE TRUTH! You can't silenckdj hsbgorit;'][;lk'/\][

[gunsandbullhorns]

Dude, you know that we're against Zeitgeist here, right? lol, we're on your side, man settle down. Do you disagree with anything my buddy in the video said? Have you even watched it?

[crazymaybe04]

haha! Your pre-filled, pre-learnt, pre-proposed, preconceptions about the fucknu--, sorry the truth movement, are pre-prescribed to you through the television. Why not jump off a precipice and die?

[gunsandbullhorns]

Cos I'm sitting comfy in my chair. What's your excuse? Zeitgeist is a travesty dude, I don't understand what you're point is. Are you guys just on a crusade against those who make positive or negative reference to zeitgeist or something?

[murderrapelove]

Zeitgeist? Your worldview is based on Zeitgeist? That movie's full of shit man, it is a diarhea salad disguised as healthfood.

[martinsamuelian]

here we have a man that could not help being a futurist and as such he thinks with a certain detachment of his own time in many respects

i believe that his contributions give invaluable ideas as how to tackle the problems of today and tomorrow and that to dismiss his genius is not coherence as neither is to expect him to be perfect.

i see a man who's ideas can be of great use and inspiration in the evolution of humanity

[gunsandbullhorns]

Well, I don't see him as having much detachment from his own time (if I understand you correctly). Whether he understands it or not, all of his ideas/philosophies are rehashments of the millenialist utopianism that was floating around during the progressive era (in which he spent his youth). Various Marxist offchutes (the bolsheviks for example), Malthus, the Cambridge (eugenicist) elitists, Bertrand Russell, Keynes... Adolf Hitler especially shared some form of Fresco's vission.

[gunsandbullhorns]

...and not only Fresco's vission, but the bulk of his ideology. Sure, maybe the bolsheviks didn't envission a world without scarcity, and maybe Hitler didn't try to sell his totalitarianism as "freedom", but save for the minute differences in the sales-pitch, they were basically the same philosophy and vission.

The Nazi & Bolshevik experiments were disasters. Until Jacque Fresco can explain how to prevent such a disaster from happening again, I object to his vission.

[gunsandbullhorns]

For a concise analysis of Fresco's various ideas/philosophies I would recommend the book 'Socialism' by Ludwig von Mises (written in 1922). This book is available for free (in various formats) all over the internet.

Keep in mind that in 1922 the word "socialism" had a slightly different conotation than it has today.

For a more intellectually entertaining (albeit less concise) analysis of Jacque Fresco's ideas, I'd recommend the book 'The Road To Serfdom' by F.A. Hayek (1944).

[gunsandbullhorns]

We've done a couple of other videos critical of the Venus project & Jacque Fresco. Some of them are critical of his character. Others are critical of his reasoning. I think we did one specifically criticizing his inventions.

Anyway, if you've got any arguments in favor of anything relating to Jacque Fresco or the Venus project, we'd love to discuss 'em with you. It's sure pleasant to hear a dissenting opinion that doesn't resort to calling us "idiots" just for disagreeing with Fresco. ;)

[martinsamuelian]

i think you have great valid points and i regard you as a smart analyst with a acute common sense. although i would like to say that the very audacity is in to observe and learn from various opinions

i completely agree on the fact that things can only come in bits and to expect for a system to collapse to get a new one as if Im changing my t-shirt is rather naive

but to suggest that fresco's work (not that you did) is complete bullshit it is also stupid................

[wexarexthexStorm]

"I got a real problem with that mentality I think it's stupid".

Ahahahha nice on the point.. ahaa good stuff, love the vids you've got great points.

[an0nymuss]

it doesn't call on abolishment in the context you are using it. the film explains how money is an outdated form of a tool. Because thats all money is is a tool. The same way computers get obsolete, so does the technology behind how we manage our resources.

[an0nymuss]

"that's just stupid" - ok, quite constructive...

"there's a backup system, maybe we just weren't educated about it." I have to ask, if the established system collapses, do you think there will be peace or riots?...i think riots...some backup system...

where the rules change and you are a slave to people who "educate you"

[gunsandbullhorns]

If a system collapses, those who have the most influence will always gain control. i.e. other systems that are not collapsed.

There is no way that every system on the planet will simultaneously suffer a complete and total collapse.

[an0nymuss]

the venus project is not a perfect system. and if the rules change of a system, is it the same system? peter does not advocate ignoring politics. He said reject the political system and acknowledge its flaws, he doesn't say don't participate. as for the "giving up" of the current system being chidlish? The current system uses money...how can you transition from one systhem like the monetary system to a system that has no money...

[gunsandbullhorns]

Hey, this is Johnny. (as opposed to Jeff i.e. the guy in this video) I'll be doing a video regarding this question on monday.

(we put out vids on mondays and tuesdays.)

[an0nymuss]

I'm not looking forward to criticisms that aren't constructive...which is what this video is.

[gunsandbullhorns]

We can (and should) only offer you a little more perspective.

Whether or not it is "constructive" will always be dependent on your ability (or willingness) to utilise a little more perspective.

[an0nymuss]

sarcastic distain is not constructive criticism. I respect your perspective as flawed as it is but you are still missing the fundamental message of the zeitgeist addendum.

[gunsandbullhorns]

...Okay, so in regard to this subject, there are 4 major groups.

Those whose agenda it is to:

1. oppose any one world system.

2. openly explore available ideas.

3. support zeigeist

4. avoid unfamiliar ideas.

Our target audience falls within the first two categories.

I'll hazard the guess that you fall into the last 2 categories...

So being as we have no intention of promoting your agenda...

Whose fault is it that you don't find our criticism "constructive"?

[an0nymuss]

I like how you segregate me from everyone else when you don't know anything about me. I'm actually 2 and 3 if you want to quantify an entire person in this method which is wrong in my opinion. As for the constructive criticism part, what have you said that is constructive at all...Like I said previously sarcastic distain is not constructive criticism.

[gunsandbullhorns]

Like I said: Regarding this topic, our target demographic is people classed among #s 1 and 2.

i.e. Our observations are meant to be constructive for number #1 in recruiting #2 to oppose #3.

So the more you are classed as a #3, the more unlikely you'll find our comments constructive i.e. useful in promoting your agenda.

And as much as you see yourself as a # 2 you would be at least considering our points... which is constructive in making up your mind on the subject, right?

[an0nymuss]

It is this whole us vs them mentality that you have that will ultimately lead you to failure...its that sharp judgement of yours that is responsible for things like the crusades, suicide bombers, and racism...

[gunsandbullhorns]

Our enemy is not specifically zeitgeist addendum, just it is not specifically the jehova's witnesses or any of the other "end timesers".

But in common between them is the belief that the world must go through a meatgrinder before a "kingdom of heaven" can be achieved here on earth.

Our enemy is that suggestion. And our strategy is to block that path and to show that there are many detours; by any means necessary.

The fact that you believe that we'll fail places you on your side of our line.

[an0nymuss]

zeitgeist addendum does not suggest that there has 2 be some world meatgrinder. These misrepresentations are exactly the reason y im here wasting my time debating with you. u think u understand something when u have absolutely no idea. u saw acouple things from the film and make assumptions. Do me and everyone else a favor, go back, sit down, watch the whole video, forget all your preconceived notions of reality, have an open mind, and listen to every word. Then supply constructive criticism...

[gunsandbullhorns]

you said "The current system uses money...how can you transition from one systhem like the monetary system to a system that has no money..."

You tell me.

As for supplying your agenda with "constructive criticism", I will not. We've been over that.

p.s. I obviously don't literally mean an actual meatgrinder. By meatgrinder I'm referring to the call for the complete and total abolishment of the current system, e.g. money, competition, etc. to make space for a "new world".

You deny this call?

[an0nymuss]

its not a call for a "new world" by attaching that context you automatically associate it in your own head with the NWO and all the fearmongering going today. It is not an abolishment either. The world abolish is synonymous with cast out with harsh distain...the fundamental call of the zeitgeist addendum film is to realize your humanity and the humanity of every person on this planet. a shift in consciousness over anything else.

[MrHolipsism]

This recent bailout is the crown jewel of why I lean more toward anarchy & voluntarism. You had these same politicians you say we should save betray 90% of their constituency to pass the bailout (corporate welfare) package. These same people who paid taxes (theft & robbery) and voted for the politicians who passed the bill will still be foreclosed on even though their creditors received the money! I'm just curious how you can still justify government. Also, what is your take on "smaller gov?"

[gunsandbullhorns]

It wasn't my intent to justify government. I tried to take a neutral stance on gov't in this video.

What's my take on "smaller gov't"? I'm for it. I'd like to see it reduced to a size and scope that could be easily overseen and curtailed by "we the people".

I'd recommend Murray N. Rothbard's book 'For A New Liberty' (also available in audio-book format). I agree with just about 99% of that book.

[MrHolipsism]

No offense, but I'm confused on the politician part. If politicians "can't solve problems" and it would be dangerous to ignore them because they can "create more problems" then why have them in the first place? I'm not being a smart ass, btw. I'm seriously attempting to get where you are coming from. Same thing with government. I've made this point about the Alex Jones show before and no one has really addressed it...

[MrHolipsism]

Prisonplanet and infowars exist to speak about the ills of government and how government cannot be trusted, yet...they are not anarchists nor do they believe in a voluntary society. Also, if anyone has read the works of Lysander Spooner, how can a resourced based economy scare us when we live in a country where you have to abide by a social contract you didn't agree to (the constitution) just by being born? Its the only piece of paper in the history of paper with such magical properties.

[gunsandbullhorns]

Yeah. Infowars seems to be a good place to get news. The views expressed by that site (and alex) seem to have a Libertarian/Pæleo-Conservative slant. I think that's cool enough. It's a step in the right direction (albeit a vague one).

...but ultimately, Infowars & Alex are a resource for news. I guess they are doing what they are good at, and leaving the socio-governmental theory to others who specialize in that realm of thought. ;)

[gunsandbullhorns]

Wow. You were REALLY paying close attention to my words. I'm flattered.

Right now, at the present moment, politicians exist, and they wield both power & influence. I don't like them. I'd like to see their power reduced. However, I'm not sure how far I'd like to see their power reduced. I haven't figured that out yet. What I do know is that they have power NOW, and so we need to pay CLOSE attention to them.

We will be responding more fully to your comments/questions in video form.

[Ricky2112]

Ethics, and humane behavior cannot exists in a monetary system. Look at the Electric Car, Iraq, suppression of multiple cancer cures, all due to keeping the status quo in which money is it's life blood.

[Ricky2112]

Evolve? You mean keep things the way they are and call it evolution? The system WILL collapse, and it will be only due to the fractional reserve system's own short comings.

Yeah, politicians can't solve problems, why are they there, and why do we support them?

You are talking in circles, without a point - unlike the VP.

The system cannot be fixed.