Added: 4 years ago
From: tamedmind
Views: 153,130
Sort by time | Sort by thread (beta)

Link to this comment:

Share to:

All Comments (331)

Sign In or Sign Up now to post a comment!
  • This is two sides of the mountain. Beautiful.

  • If you think Krishnamurti is "teaching" you simply haven't been inquiring.

  • @Padmakshya

    It must be painful being so attached to your ego.

    Both Krishnamurti and Trungpa teach the same thing as every other true spiritual teacher: How to disidentify from the ego.

    That is meditation.

  • @ShiningBuddhaBeam 

    It is very simple, Krishnamurti does not teach, he inquires. To teach and to learn implies a sense of ego because it consists of accumulation of formulas. To inquire is to think independent of formulas.

  • @Padmakshya

    I don't think Krishnamurti would be attached to words.

    Teaching and Inquiring mean the same when you are no longer attached.

  • @ShiningBuddhaBeam

    Sure whatever you say.

  • @Padmakshya

    Can you not feel your intense attachment to your own ego?

    I'm not enlightened, but I can certainly be aware of moments when I'm acting from a sense of ego. Admitting to yourself that you're attached to your own ego is good practice, for myself too.

  • @ShiningBuddhaBeam

    Listen to yourself aimlessly chasing around the same thoughts. Forget attachment. Forget ego. Forget enlightenment. Forget everything. Discard my words, your words, Krishnamurti's words, Buddha's words, anyone's words.

  • @Padmakshya

    That isn't bad advice in general.

    But I hope you also practice walking your talk.

    Talk is meaningless if your actions don't show your wisdom.

  • Neither of these guys is "better"

    Krisnamurti is teaching,

    Trungpa is asking and listening.

    Together, they make one whole.

  • I was not expecting such harsh judgment of JK. Focusing on his faults puts down the ability of the truth in his words to be heard. Nobody ever has and nobody ever will be able to say everything right all the time, never contradict him/herself, and always please every person with their words and actions. To say one person is better or more right is to miss the point entirely. Salam, namaste, good vibes, etc to all of you.

  • J. Krishnamurti: "Practice means conforming to a pattern, imitating (...) can that conformity ever lead to truth, obviously not!." Pure logical fallacies, JK presents baseless claims as facts.

    Obviously JK doesn't have a clue of what 'practice' means in the context of Mahamudra or Dzogchen buddhist teachings. Which Trungpa was a master of, by the way.

    Jiddu thinks that meditation means repeating some sort of mental bench press? Poor guy, he had a wrong idea of meditation.

  • @longde You judge someone that he is "bad" and you don't see you only see it "bad", because you look at something and see it as "good". So your ego can dance around that "I'm better" or "More true" in order to feel more than it is. If there is no more "bad" you cease to be "good" or "more than others", since your ego can't compare itself to anyone or anything. You were fighting for nothing. What did you gain? lol. You created your enemy by splitting "It" into 'black' and 'white'. funny ey'? :D

  • @HUaRC I actually have to congratulate you for applying an understanding of the ego to reasoning out reality.

    I apologize for calling you a twat in the Aileen Wuornos video, but also realize please that you yourself were being affected by your own ego by trying to beat me at an argument I wasn't even having.

  • @Ebvardh What you call reality is your reality. That's the better case. The worse case is, if you gave up your own will and spread these ideas about reality, because you blindly accepted a "tuth" (their truth) from someone else, call it society, parents etc. so you could your place in social hierarchy sub missing yourself to someone and dominating an other. How is your "reality" of self is more true, when your sense of self comes from external sources. Everyone is equal...

  • @Ebvardh Noone is less or more. You can dominate only those people who get an idea about themselves by submitting to others. You get your sense of self by feeling supreme over others, be it a bum or a less educated person. Everyone and everything es equal. There is nothing more to existence than existence itself. If I take away your status, your position in your imagined hierarchy, what you gonna feel? Probably massive insecurity. How true is your self image my friend? How true is your reality?

  • @Ebvardh I'm not trying to beat you nor anyone. I talk, so this mindless violence around the planet might stop one day. Maybe people will start to question "norms", start to question their own motives of doing everything day by day.You take away my material belongings, my family, my "social status" and I'll live happily after, because my sense of self comes from inside. I have no fear. The only way to control anyone is by their fear of loss and pain. I don't cling so I have nothing to lose...

  • @HUaRC Therefore I can live stress and fearless, truly experience what is around me. I could choose not to talk and sit in silence and let all the blind people ("suicidal maniacs") consume the whole planet in their search for "happiness". If there would be no person like me, the other side would consume the whole universe in a second. I preserve, others destroy. It doesn't matter in the end of the day. Fighting for "white" is just as stupid as fighting for "black".

  • @Ebvardh I create destruction, acknowledging it's existence by fighting for preservation. Black is no better than white and vica-versa. We just decide it in our heads. That's why I feel many times, that i'm fighting against myself. After all existence is no different than non-existence. They create a whole. They are one, not two. Just "is". It's funny tho'. People say nihilism is "bad". Fighting against against destruction is "bad" too. The only acceptable thing in this society is submission...

  • @Ebvardh My question is, who wants me to be submissive and why? The answer is, the leaders of our humanity are blind people. They get their self image, their sense of self by being superior to others. But this only works, if others act submissive. This happens because the "others" too don't know who they are and are afraid, insecure. They accept being a "servant" in order to belong to somewhere (have a sense of self) so they don't spend their day in utter insecurity and fear.

  • @Ebvardh So they follow, follow orders even if it leads to self-destruction. If they cease to be followers what are they? Unless they realize that they are "it" they choose to follow, in order to get a meaning to their life. People look for a meaning to their existence, when the only meaning is existence. The meaning of existence is existence, the rest is just masturbation of the ego.

  • @HUaRC I too masturbate right now btw. I choose white, because I don't do anything what I wouldn't want to be done to me. I don't get it how people can exist every day supporting by their lifestyle by killing other living beings (experiencing this wonder, existence), using others suffering, destroying the planet.

  • At the left you have a intelectual doing mental masturbation for his ego trip, at the right you have an actual buddhist master sitting silent. J. Krishnamurti screwed his best friend's wife for years in secret, even forced her to have abortions, in secret too. Trungpa NEVER hid anything of his outrageous behavior, everything he did was intentionally in public.

    An actual buddhist Master helps you to cut through your ego and through your delusions. Plenty of this you'll find in Trungpa's books.

  • @longde Egads, man! Figures someone who apparently needed some 'policing' in his own life would be so anti-religion. The scalawag! Thanks for the info. I'll never look at him the same way again.

  • @longde His friend had decided years earlier that he did not want to have sex for spiritual reasons. So he stopped. Well, his wife wanted to have sex.

    So she did with Krishnamurti. Should she have suffered the rest of her life because her husband didn’t want to have sex? (That time in India a wife could not divorce, just so you know) And why shouldn’t Krishnamurti have sex? You are not more spiritual because you have or don’t have sex. Thinking so is "mental bench pressing".

  • @longde It is all too subjective. An enlightened person is not hung up on what society says is right or wrong, which is largely based on just belief handed down by other egos. Like Krishnamurti was found to have been having sex with his friend’s wife for many years. Many people thought this was so very bad. ‘How could a truly enlightened person do that?...

  • @longde You clearly don't get what this man talks about in general. There is no "way". There is no buddhism, there are no practices, as soon as you leave "being" and try to control anything you are fooling yourself. To me, it seems you put buddhism on a pedestal, like a magic pill granting enlightenment. And you talk about ego? You made "buddhism" in your little head a solution to a problem, therefore you acknowledge you have a problem, therefore you created it the problem. You see? :)

  • Krishnamurti and a drunk Buddhist.. this should be interesting.

  • yes yes... two of the greats. now how about that combover?

  • I hear Trungpa was highly enlightened even Pema Chodron s teacher,, but was at the same time a pisshead!!! How is this possible?As a former drinker myself I cannot imagine having a bad hangover and being an enlightened being at the same time.Or was he something special like a reincarnation Tibetan god or something?Intrigued.

  • Pish ..... All talk no action

  • the oldest cultures in the world zulus of Africa, aboriginals of Australia native Americans of America all walked in the darkness before Jesus before buddha before Lao Tzu and krishnamurti "ever wonder why the Aboriginals of Australia don't paint mouths or ears on their work " ?

    Krishna is a great thinker this cannot be denied.

    Follow your heart is what i get from his speeches.

    i enjoy his views.

  • I would like to know what kind of experience an individual engages in that is not personal. Surely an individual's experience can never be anything other than personal? Did Krishnamurti ever espouse the idea of a duality of experience, in which there is a personal and an impersonal mode of experience? I'm curious about this because I realise that one debate does not necessarily encapsulate an individual's enitre world-view and also because I am not overly familiar with Krishnamurti's work.

  • Krishnamurti has a tendency to speak as though his every sentence contains the most profound meaning- hence the pregnant pauses between phrases.

    Is it believed that he is a kind of incarnation of Krishna or is that someone else?

  • Krishnamurti demonstrates why his followers should not trust "spiritual teachers and gurus".

  • he was drunk, he died of it...is it wrong to point ppl on their behavior? Trungpa was fixed in method and remained till the end of his life, he got addicted to alcohol, sex ( position brings power), yet people liked this crazy wisdom, mad intelligence as tolle calls it. Seeing Trungpa meditations where there is a beer on the side for refreshment gives me a bitter taste, seeing him with krishnamurti, is ironic, he is not able to let go of the conditional shit of tibetan buddhism,

  • definition of meditation contemplation and or deep focused thought

    its what he's doing before he speaks the whole video through how can no one see that for fuck sake come down from the clouds and get your hands dirty in the real world

  • It’s a pity that for some viewers this particular video will be their introduction to Krishnamurti. Especially parts 1 and 2 of this hermetic monologue are muddled and questionable. 

  • This was recorded at 4pm in the afternoon. If you know how I know, then post a response. :)

  • @chazdrumzalot The two men are both wearing leather shoes. That alone is enough. :)

  • is the practice of no practice. meditation.we need to, unless you got it? but than you go on to help others.

  • Krishnamurti sure is talking a lot in this video.

  • @hhhaaaooonnn That's because Trungpa doesn't know what the hell to say cuz JK is talking no-method and Trungpa is all method.

  • Bonjour à toutes et à tous!

    Si quelqu'un(e) , pouvait sous tirer en Français, d'avance, trois milliards de mercis!!!

    Très cordialement

    ps : Je crois que ça vient d'être fait pour un discours en anglais, sur site allemand...je ne sais qui l'a fait, mes infinis remerciements!!!

  • Nothing is meditation

  • Chogyam, intuiting that his future dharma heir will die of AIDS before locating his reincarnation, sits impassively while the world's most talkative bore lectures him on the evils of organized religion. "Maybe I should have sold carpets." he muses, "That way I wouldn't have to sit here and listen to this pretentious old fart who admitted on his deathbed that nobody really understood what he was talking about anyway."

  • @melcat63 - The average person would need to study Krishnamurti's works to get accustomed to his message. It is very similar to others who came before him and who came after him. Instead of insulting the man why don't you learn more about his teachings? THEN you'd be qualified to comment. As it is, you are talking about something you know nothing about.

  • @goldie0800 I assure you that I know more about the man than you (an average person) do. A pretentious old lady like you would have fit well into Krishnamurti's admiring, doting, and deluded circle and it was to this circle

    that he expressed his contempt before his death. It was Krishnamurti himself who deluded his followers into thinking they were "qualified to preach the teachings" and it was also Krishnamurti who tried to point out this fact. You don't get it. Followers never do.

  • @melcat63 - These people are using their minds and making the effort to understand themselves and the world around them to be followed by being able to differentiate what is real and eternal from what is transitory and changeful. It appears you have no intelligent discussion to offer and merely fall back on insulting others to prove your point. That is hardly using your dufus, is it! The world of philosophy hasn't got through to some yet as we can see by their inane comments. Yuk!

  • @goldie0800 OK, Krishnamurti followers do tend to be rather dry, humorless and pretentious. So try this, "Jabba the Hutt contemplates eating the world's most ridiculous talking bald spot comb-over."

  • Comment removed

  • @melcat63 - Don't be ridiculous! It seems you place total importance on outer appearances? Why so? Start searching into the depths of the human soul, you might be surprised at what is there in each and everyone of us. It doesn't take much intelligence to be superficial, that's the easy way out.

  • @goldie0800 "Goldie" needs to get laid, then she'll understand. In his lifetime, K was surrounded by stuffy old doting women supposedly seeking "spirituality? K said that none of his followers got it. Get it?

    ,

    .

  • @melcat63 - Your head is in the gutter by such juvenile insults. It's time to look up to the spiritual light. Please grow up and see people such as K as individuals with a great deal to offer the world. Obviously you're not ready for it. Careful, your ignorance is on display! Also, your insulting remarks are offensive and have been reported.

    When anyone cannot take part in a discussion with intelligence and sound ideas they fall back on personal attacks by crude remarks such as yours.

  • @melcat63 - Do you make a habit of insulting women? I see male prejudice abounds and is slow to die out.

  • Meditation is simply when subject and object disolve back to the Self - all pervaiding, omnipresent, self0illuminating nothing-ness

  • i dont get you, jiddu, I am a simple man.

  • @dyterdyter - Start by reading some of his writings. That might open the windows for you.

  • I like JK. but sometimes he over generalises descrediting other traditions practice of meditation. Each to his own spiritual levels. meditions maybe not needed by higher spiritual people, yet we normal people have to do it. its not adding more problem its just way of realising oneself separate to problem. JK maybe enlightened, but it came in process of studies and research and observation. JEsus was englighten while still inside the womb. You cant get more enlighten than that.

  • No need to be exuberant to enjoy expression. Filling the form with the energy of the self is what leads to fulfillment. The form can be created or it can be used depending on the media available and the method required.

    JK had a great capacity to transmit the vibe. It was not the words used as much as the intention conveyed and the knowledge provided that allowed him to present his power to those that surrounded him.

    We all are able to transmit the vibe, we need only intercept and express it.

  • Learn the truth. JOYOFSATAN,COM

  • 5 people dont meditate

  • My first encounter of Jaddu on a video and am not impressed - - refering to the practice of meditation - "can such conformity ever lead to truth - obviously not" - I would love to know how is he so sure??

  • @lonelydinosaur

    so the reason for your lack of satisfaction is your apparent lack of understanding?

    no one will give you understanding, thats certain.

    understanding only happens when you listen, not when you react.

  • @xaxisxophiodes - i am just not impressed - heard enough of osho's play on words and while i respect jaddu of what i have heard of him and cause people i respect respect him - i just can't comprehend what he says.. agree the problem is in my listening.. cause he sure is famous..

  • @lonelydinosaur - Well, we have to seek and find what suits our understanding. Maybe just try to read other spiritual teachings and see what 'rings a bell' for you. I give a bit of leeway to Krishnamurti here because he's at the latter part of his long life and less dynamic than earlier years, but the message is still there. I view several of his videos, walk away, and the words come into my mind with an 'aha!' as to what is real, or the 'self', etc. Give it time.

  • An ability to confidently utter overall, vague, roundabout, offbit statements making no sense throughout the life is enlightenment.

  • @apterahulya im going to watch pornos after this to balance my mind. this is what i call verbal masterbation. its a good show. i like the anthony robbins' style of verbal masterbation; i like the way he moves his face muscles and show his teeth while walking about all the while giving small doses of crazy laughter in between

  • @tube4625 I don't find this offsetting to the mind the mind is in a constant state of balance and always anchored in the now. Sexuality is a personal experience, a choice if u like. It does not change the now but how u choose to label the now as either good or bad.

  • @vincikd007bg008 your comment fits well with statements made in the video. lol. i must admit if there is what u call depth in the matters being discussed here its all passing over my head. i think these people who talk like this just provide a stimulating substitute for people who are not religious. so the non religious are suckers for this type of word munching and heartily buy into the goods of these 'guru' types offering enlightenment. i find both religion and this video to be mumbo jumbo

  • @tube4625 - My suggestion is that you go back and begin at a lower rung in the ladder to get a grasp of the basics and the rest will eventually fall into place. Yes, it can be Greek to some who'ver heard of this line of thinking. "Soul" searching is not a common pursuit with most people nor do they have answers. So, if you are truly seeking you will find, but you must make the effort and not just let it remain an idea in the mind and not acting on the idea.

  • @goldie0800 no problems with "soul searching" if there is such a thing; and if there is it cannot be communicated to the soul searchers. if it was then all these enlightened gurus would have produced dozens of gurus out of their close followers. but we dont see that. what we see is the gurus trying to put it into words something that is understood or percieved not by language; pretending to teach something unteachable & collect fees for a talk that listeners find fascinating like a movie;

  • @apterahulya his speech has a lot sense, and show probably lasts 45 min :)) ....seriously i totally understand what he talks and the point is not about enlightenment, just about healthy, efficient, practical functioning of the human being....every process in human mind has its own purpose and great human problem is misusing them.....

  • Great "conversation". :D

  • Trungpa Rinpoche is teaching just by listening and meditating, while Krishnamurti is going on and on about I'm not sure what.

  • @norbu2006 Rinpoche knew he was out-classed. He's shaking in his boots over the conviction that a serious, intelligent man like Krishnamurti emanates. As he hunches their busting out of every seam of his suit, Rinpoche knew to shut up and be thought a fool rather than open his mouth and remove all doubt. He died of syphilis and drug/alcohol abuse at what age 45? Krishnamurti was only 1/2 done teaching at 45, and lived to what 96, just as energetic and pure of mind/body/heart as in his prime.

  • @FathomlessJoy I wish we can all live to 96 as energetically as Krishnamurti, no argument there.

  • @norbu2006 Nah, he's just drunk on gin and tonic and in awe of the real thing.

  • "Personal experience has very little validity in religious matters." -Krishnamurti

    He could only have arrived at that conclusion from his own personal experience, or aggregate personal experiences. Statements claiming objectivity (including this one and my previous one) need to be examined and reconstituted in different contexts, starting with the context of the person and their experience.

  • guru - a nice gig if you can get it.

  • the best for Trungpa Rimpoche would be to have a nap and let Krishnamurti talk.

    He is so accustomed to his monologues, there is no real dialogue. Bisides what he is saying is so unimportant, but he thinks he is revealing great things.

  • samreznek, i suggest you try Osho..

    just a suggestion..

    :-)

  • What is this video from?

  • you need another thorn to remove a thorn...meditation is a better problem to remove problem..at the end both has to be abandoned...Krishnamurti considers everything problem..yes then why even dress up well, isnt that propaganda he likes to call.?

  • he uses a lot of words to explain the futility of words.

  • K reminds me of Hegel. If you focus on what he's saying there's a structure but at the end of the day it's more fancy than helpful. What I dig about Trungpa Rinpoche is that the wisdom helps you right on the spot in your actual life.

    I see comments about friends and family not getting K, well, that's kind of the point - Rinpoche uses the dharma to help you get on track - the ones you care about don't need to know or care about him to benefit.

  • Trungpa's Cutting Through book saved me from me. 

  • Why all the hateful comments? Is it so hard to not be stupid?

  • (bow)

  • It's strange how i understand what Rinpoche is not talking about but most comments don't seem to connect. It's as if when he doesn't speak, Rinpoche doesn't connect to some sort of 'frequency that only a few can understand'. I'm not sure why that is. Maybe because it doesn't require any effort.

  • @punk2116 .. Dammn, thought U'm alone in that .. Everytime I tell peeple to listen to this man  it seems more like he speaks a lingo that only I" can understand. Ma friend introduced me to this, we tryin' to get peeple grasp this Realism This man preaches. Especially women, in South Africa they don't get a bit of what this is all 'bout .. but I bet thats true everywher, Coz women behaviour is costant Universally, thats a law of physics!

  • hi punk2116. i think the reason why most people can't connect is because most of us are too analytical...we think and try to reason too much. thinking is trying, and trying is avoiding the things which are there to grab without trying too much....!

  • "Can such conformity, to any pattern, doesn't matter what it is...can that ever lead to truth? Obviously not." This is the most important thing I heard in this video. We are living in a mass-conformity society. Carl Jung saw this in the mid 20th century. What happens when you break free? Go find out...

  • If you want to read something also as interesting just search

    The Dawn of Intelligence

  • two conmen, sitting cross from eachother! speaking beautiful bullshit. the theater of the whole thing is really great.

  • @absorbedlotus If you want to put the words of any one human being on a pedestal then more probably you've already conned yourself.

  • @zonybenvid huh? i kinda just enjoy the theater of it. i could give a ratsass what they're talking about. a bum's word verse these ppl talking about god knows what, you might be better off to take the bums word. krishnamurti is in over his head. but all of the gurus are like that. they're entertainers. up your ass.

  • @absorbedlotus So then if I accept your opinion, isn't that the same as taking any guru's, bum's, or just really any persons word? Why should we put anyones word above our own is my point. Once I decide your idea of Krishnamurti is correct then what do I really know about Krishnamurti?

  • The man that is not krishnamurti is breathing very quickly at times. his breath is changing often. maybe he is nervous or maybe something else.

  • Even beyond the mind - there is an essense of awareness - which is aware of itself. That awareness is truth - experience of "things" being a shadow or reflection of it. All things are truth in that all things is all there is. The mind identifies a separate self, which obscures truth through belief in "falsness" itself! The only illusion is belief in illusion... Everything is 1...

  • I have seen the same thing...I have understood him for many years and yet others, even those in my own family, admit that they don't understand him. I think it is only when we go beyond our conditioned minds that we effortless understand what he is saying. I have written a book about all of this, but one must read the entire book without forming a conclusion.

    Search: kerry walker story

  • @superwhuffo1 yadayadaydada

  • @absorbedlotus You should go beyond your self and watch this video...go to youtube and search: Observations about God, Science, Physics, Mathematics, and Evolution

  • @superwhuffo1 i probably will watch it but, i mean what hes saying is cool and all. and it is good. it's just those people dont need to understand it. they're minds are diffrent. it's probably not necessary for them to clarify these confusions

  • @absorbedlotus I understand exactly what you mean.....

  • So if "personal experience" has no validity why then would someone listen to a person who makes such a claim? An individual's experience is personal to him and only to himself. What comes out of his mouth as words reflects his own experience and resultant knowledge. Even when describing a transcendent truth, it is still an individual experience.

    This is simply bogus philosophy and cannot stand up to the rigors of critical analysis. It is a notion fostered by ones own sense of self-importance.

  • @mhearstify in response to first question: to write volumes of books.

  • He could easily have saved time at the start by simply stating that the Absolute Truth does not require validation by any person. Unless of course he is also implying that in organized religion, say christianity, the "personal experience" of Jesus has no validity. Surely not, for that would defeat his own argument -- his own experience.

  • While I like his admonishment of the TM organization, his own core philosophy isn't different from that of Maharishi's. He's a gentleman, where the other is/was a rascal cashing in on the Indian guru fad of that time.

  • KRISHNAMOURTI Was a Real Prophet Of Our Time That Only Spoke Of The Truth & Nothing Else .

  • trungpa is as mature as k

  • transcendental meditation is bullshit. Just read an article that is written by one of the teachers in this...do the study if you dont believe me , it IS bullshit. And it takes all you money and brains too...

  • after watching "Ghost in A Shell" these videos become much clearer

  • Well, I don't think that K would have made much of a career selling carpets. He seems a little self absorbed here. He really should have done hairdressing - at least part-time. That bald spot comb over is about as innovative as I've seen. And, I'm sure that his followers won't think that ascot he is sporting is at all pretentious, though I wouldn't be surprised if Chogyam did and was thinking, "This is the most ridiculous thing I've seen since I left the Himalayas". He is obviously speechless!

  • Special thanks to Haji's discount oriental rug mart for donating the store after hours for a filming location.  All short hair mumbai carpets 60% off for Jiddu's followers. Act Now.

  • There are so many people who claim to be "one of the few" who really "understand" what Krishnamurti is talking about. They claim that so many of their friends and relations are not willing to exert the effort it requires to really understand. Isn't this a little pretentious? Aren't these people a little delusional? Aren't these the people who get defensive when you bring it to their attention that when Krishnamurti was talking about waking up from conditioning that he was talking about THEM?

  • Trungpa is not drunk, he is just relishing the opportunity to listen to a true master like Krishnamurti speak.

  • @PseudoApollodorus "you are the master, the disciple, the guru, etc."

  • Chogyam Trungpa is just suffering for a hangover.

  • If you have done a lot of meditation, then Krisnamurti makes a lot of sense. If you're not on that level yet, or if you subscribe to any of the silly cults which call themselves organised religions (Buddhism, Hindusm, Islam, Judaism, Christianity) then Krishnamurti won't make much sense.

  • If u ask all buddhists around the world,they would disagree with you calling buddhism a religion.

  • Trungpa is drunk out of his mind as always. He's just drunk a whole bottle of whisky, and now he is struggling to listen to Krishnamutri.

  • Neither of them sold any carpets today.

  • Krishnamurti states that personal experience is useless, it is invalid. Sadly, that is a self-refuting argument, for the argument itself is an expression of his own personal experience.

    The argument is clearly invalid, which in turn shows that personal experience is indeed valid.

  • This is the essence of my teaching.

  • NEW GURU'S: David Spero-adyahshanti-

    saniel bonder-mooji- etc

  • In zen/chan it is most important to sit as already enlightened. To sit as one containing enlightenment. If you think you are going to "work" your way to enlightenment you are making a fundamental mistake called "using mind to try to find mind". This pushes what you are seeking away. Dropping seeking allows luminous mind to manifest. Tremendous patience is key. If you are impatient you will "expect' results and you won't get any "results". Sit expecting nothing, how difficult that is!

  • Thank you.

  • What's interesting about the comments on this page are the ones that say 'people aren't ready to handle K' or similar posts. It creates the 'us vs. them' mentality, which is the basic thought pattern in all/most religious orgs. Which K was obviously against.

  • Yes, but Krishnamurti and any intellectual of his type inevitably creates this situation by having something to tell. But K is more like he Buddha or Taoists in this way, that it is ignorance that makes most people run around all day missing the point and putting their efforts into self-perpetuating problems. [A/The] trick may be to sympathize, and engage others in conversation to dig deeper into problems, which is what he does here and in his many lectures/writings.

  • Were they supposed to be debating each other? I thought it was merely a conversation.

  • Comment removed

  • oh man oh man - this is a great example of patience in practice

  • Comment removed

  • Comment removed

  • explain the now...

  • K is "investigating".

  • Happiness is the summer of the truth!

  • Does Chogyam Trungpa speak at all in these videos? Krishnamurti talks quite a lot.

  • a YO, Chohyam Trungpa does speak in his own videos. In this dialog with Jiddu Krishnamurti, Mr. Trungpa's here to learn, to discover on "meditation".

  • Oh, thanks!

  • Comment removed

  • Remaining silent is the wisest response to all the dualistic nonsense Krishnamurti is emitting.

  • That's right. Trungpa is demonstrating Right Speech. He wins the "debate" without saying much. K says "personal experience has no value at all where truth is concerned". He confuses the notion that the self is an illusion with the idea that personally experiencing this truth is a paradox. The Buddha's message was that this truth can only be realized thru experiencing it oneself, which meditation helps to do. The truth about the truth, which K concedes is that direct experience itself is Truth.

  • You're missing the very important point he's trying to make, as one opposed to organized religion. The truth can only be experienced by silently listening, taking it in for oneself, true.

    But, that doesn't mean every experience we percieve is the truth because we may have not been listening close enough, for example. This points to things like religious experiences, where it doesn't mean the universe opened itself up to you suddenly, but just that you opened yourself, maybe in a wrong way.

  • well K didn't make that very clear. What I believe he's trying to say is that you can't experience truth objectively, its always through the portal of 'self'. That's the inherent problem with religion, that it ties a story to all experience.

  • punk2116 ... I also have the feeling that most will not connect with what Krishnamurti says. Perhaps as you wander down the road you can connect to people a little in front of you - but not too much in front. As I progress, various teaching begin to make sense to me, and certain other things that did once make sense to me are not so important.

  • I understand what you are saying, punk2116. Someone I've known for thirty years just told me that Krishnamurti is one of the most boring men in the world; on the contrary, I find him to be one of the most fascinating. I've been reading his books and watching his videos since 1985, and I never get tired of him.

  • It's strange how i understand what Krishnamurti is talking about but most people around me, friends or family, don't seem to connect. It's as if when he speaks, Krishnamurti connects to some sort of frequency that only a few can understand. I'm not sure why that is. Maybe it's because it requires effort from most people to understand him but what he says is really simple things that everyone should easily understand. Am i wrong ?

  • u are more ready than most

  • It's only when you've been bathed in emptiness, can one understand what Krishnamurti is pointing to. He wants you to realize that words have no value. It's admirable that he tries to do this through using words. It's probably why he disbanded the Order of the Star. He realized that 95% of humanity is still under control by the ego, and he didn't want to create another religion. We must always keep "don't-know" mind, not forcefully but intuitively. Meditation garners a beginner's mind.

  • @ravkes I'd like to see someone structure a globalized cosmopolitan society with a beginner's mind.

  • @samreznek .. I'm down if you're down homey.

    :)

  • @ravkes

    Bathed in emptiness ....... nice!

    And true my friend, very true.

  • @ravkes HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

  • @punk2116 If you can connect with Krishnamurthi, you should next check Sri Ramana Maharishi's teachings.

  • @punk2116

    I find it logical he adresses his talks to a crowd that is needed to have realized that they are seeking something that something is mmissing or wrong that no longer feel entertained by the corrupt society...

    if you are happy watching prisonbreak and evening news and think everything is fine you wont listend to this stuff... if you realize nothing is right you will tap into the answers they will come...i also found the teachings of eckhartt tolle very profound and clarifying...

  • Comment removed

  • @punk2116 It happens the same thing with me!

  • @punk2116 it requires effort to empty our conditioned heads without causing more conflict. we all tender to think of ourselfs that we ar smart.. are we?? i was on a dogschool where dogs been trained to obey on pieces of food or clicks.. well, this is like our world.. sad but true.. we are just dogs trained to obey.. the 20-30 richest mans are our masters.. th